Unfair leadership at it's best! (favoritism)

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Frobakhal
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Unfair leadership at it\'s best! (favoritism)

Postby Frobakhal » Fri Dec 14, 2001 10:46 am

[me] being my squid the rest of the names protected as request by some individuals.


Leader group-says 'dicing scale between [me] and person1'
person1 group-says 'sure'
leader group-says 'me 1 person1 2'
leader group-says 'you alerady got one.. Image'
[indicating me, although person1 also has one]
person4 group-says 'i hate this f'in rat guy on hbo'
leader group-says 'where you get dat from?'
person4 group-says 'everyone stayin leavin?'
person2 group-says 'I'm going to bed unless we doing something else..'
leader group-says 'i change mind actually.. handing to person1... he need wb still'
[This is where I am confused as well as upset...this earring isn't waterbreath, and I did win durring bid]
person4 group-says 'hrmmm'
person4 group-says 'what a good zone with mage and warrior type eq?'
leader group-says 'anyone got a goodie need pendant?'
person7 group-projects 'Hrmm.. vault!'
You group-project 'I thought I was 1 btw'
person7 group-projects 'let's do IC vault if it's not been done! :P'
person8 group-says 'it has'
leader group-says '200 ration staff anyone?'
person5 group-says 'we did it heh'
person1 group-says 'been done'
person4 group-says 'been done'
person4 group-says 'CC?'
person5 group-says 'rofl'
person5 group-says 'person9 you sticking around?'
You tell leader 'how did person1 win it when I was 1?'
person2 group-says 'brass!'
person7 group-projects 'jot!'
person4 group-says 'MD'
leader tells you 'i changed my mind since he needed wb eq'
[again earring he won isn't waterbreath, fish scale earring is 10hps and some ac]
person7 group-projects 'manscorpion hive!'
person1 group-says 'and'ir'
You tell leader 'bleh I TOLD him I can get him wb earring'
[referring to earlier when he had no waterbreath for zone and he borrowed from another player, waterbreath earring is duable with one or two people easy]
leader tells you 'he borrowing person3 atm'
person1 group-says 'that aggro evil city'
person8 group-says 'exp!'
You tell leader 'bleh thank man :P'
[Being pissed off at his justification of doing a 2+hour zone trip, and his unfair handout, both me and this other person are one level apart, both have a fish scale earring currently before the zone, only borrowed earring was waterdroplet earring for waterbreath]
person5 group-says 'if we going to do a real zone we need 2 clerics.'
person2 group-says 'currently enjoying lag'
You tell leader 'wb earring you can do with two people'
person7 group-projects 'rofl person8 Image'
leader tells you 'we do it again dude.. dont fret.. :P'
[trying to push issue aside, making me even angrier]
person4 group-says 'i want either regular ebony or 2handed ebony:P'
person10 group-says 'i could grab cleric if need be'
person4 group-says 'true person5'
person4 group-says 'keeping what leader?'
person11 tells you 'so how do you like ultrablast?'

[I rented out, then logged back in a few times]
You tell leader 'that's cheap man..and you didn't even bother handing me down his other -5ss earring either when person5 turned in his gauntlets. '
[leader told person5 to turn in his gauntlets to another player so we could all get eq (his words was so we all could get eq, person with gauntlets reluctant to give them up but did eventually]
You tell leader 'also you said I already got one..so did person1...that pisses me off. sorry I'm mad.'
[referring to the fish scale earring we each had]
[I log off, then find out some information from a group member over icq]


person5 group-says 'he do that often?'
person5 group-says 'You should care.'
person6 group-says 'Got mad over fishy earring?!'
leader group-says 'people that cry about the way i split eq can suck my balls'
leader group-says 'yeah i know'
person7 group-projects 'person8!'
leader group-says 'i am cruel and sadistic like that.. i like to see peopel cry'
person4 group-says 'he pulled that shit with me the other day when he got mad at ossis'
Leader says 'then i changed my mind'
Leader says 'that why he mad'


******

This is why I don't like hand outs, not very often people get cheated out of eq this way...bot VERY often deserving people luck out on nice eq due to favoritism...leaders know they have good eq...and they will not zone unless they get that extremely good piece of eq everyone wants. What they don't account for is that the eq requires the people who don't have all that really nice eq as well, and usually what happens is that the people who don't have spanky eq already get low end eq either from that particular zone or hand me downs from zones that require 5-10 people to do. This doesn't necessarily justify how eq is distributed, doing high level zones for extremely good eq quite often means lots more deaths, failed resses, irritrivable corpses, and more time to complete the zone. You tell me...do you think it's right for only the elite to get good eq so that when gods feel the eq is to much in circulation they up the mobs making the zone almost undoable..so they stop doing the zone...usually that's when people give up and leave because they feel it's not worth it...they don't want their eq downgraded and less likely to do the zones for other people...hense why I feel hand me downs isn't right. I've put in ALOT of time, and I'm the type of person who's all up for bids...if you feel you never win a bid..well consider yourself unlucky...if you do the zone more then your changes to win will increase...don't bitch....if you want to bitch then lead the zone and take last bid...usually that way you have a better chance to win what you want..and if you feel you must, claim it..but do so wisely so others will still continute following you otherwise you'll quickly loose your followers.

Keeping followers by continuously feeding them the eq they want and not letting other people have a chance at it makes for stress, and anger.

Extremely hard to get eq such as black longsword of destruction should be handed out, mainly to people who show that they play their fair share of the game so that their usefullness will be able to be widely spread.


[Here's a repost of the same particular person I had a dealing with before. Just a reminder that happened about two months ago. When I remembered it was the same person..I figured screw it..his attitude stinks so not gonna bother editing his name since when it was posted before it was just as it was. All I can say is that this guy needs to learn what being human is :P]


You tell Jaznolg 'I said that 2 times even...after that I wasn't even afk...and besides that was when group was getting together still'
You tell Jaznolg 'whatever man. :P'
Jaznolg tells you 'and that is the way it si'
Jaznolg tells you 'and that is the way it yes'
Jaznolg tells you 'and that is the way it is'
<> You tell Jaznolg 'snicker'
You tell Jaznolg 'talk to me when yer in a better mood :P'
Jaznolg tells you 'pretty drunk myself now.. could lead shit.. but why bother... wana crash out in a few mins'
You tell Jaznolg 'you sure sound like it.'
Jaznolg tells you 'lol'
<> Jaznolg tells you 'good response from the acused retard'
You tell Jaznolg 'and do you think calling me retarded is suppose to do something? Image'
Jaznolg tells you 'i hope so anyways...'
You tell Jaznolg 'well it isn't working :P'
Jaznolg tells you 'well you needa pay more attention to your group when you at the keys'
Jaznolg tells you 'cuz thats why i log off earlier... cuz of you'
You tell Jaznolg 'dude like I said..the group was forming you asked if I could group I said yes..but I had my hands full putting together my computer camera '
You tell Jaznolg 'I said I was putting it together...I had parts all over in my lap '
You tell Jaznolg 'well maybe you need to lighten up some....we were still in dk and I'm sorry I took a few more minutes then you planned on...sheesh'
Jaznolg tells you 'didnt hear that part of it... but that all bs.. why be online if you gunna be afk the whole time when a group need your shit to get stuff done?'
You tell Jaznolg 'go have another beer or something :P'
You tell Jaznolg 'dude you're making a big deal out of nothing. :P'
Jaznolg tells you 'i am not the only one that has talked shit about you... (in my defense)'
You tell Jaznolg 'people talk shit about other people all the time..what else is new?'
You tell Jaznolg 'how would you like it if you are in an exp group and you and the leader have to tell people to tog vic off 7 times? you'd get a bit upset as well'
<> You tell Jaznolg 'I'm assuming that's what you are referring about.'
You tell Jaznolg 'take it from me...don't just listen to one sided issues unless you plan on talking to both parties...otherwise stupid shit happens..and I'm here to have fun mudding not put up with stupid people who don't pay attention.'
Jaznolg tells you 'blah blah blah'


I know this shit goes on in the mud..but this is to obvious....if there's other people who have had similiar cases of this..feel free to add. We shouldn't have to put up with this type of abuse.

[This message has been edited by Frobakhal (edited 12-14-2001).]
Gindipple
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Postby Gindipple » Fri Dec 14, 2001 11:17 am

Man dude you're gonna die faster from that kinda stress.
Take a break, then come back and enjoy the game.
Image
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Postby Ilshadrial » Fri Dec 14, 2001 12:51 pm

FROB I have mudded with you for a long time. You can lead your own zones, so do it. Your a great mudder. Screw the lame ass leaders who are still kids. Anyone can lead a zone, like it takes someone special. Even if you lead the lemmings like Mikar did in the past, you can conquer all! mahahaha

Ilshad *keep that chin up!!!*
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Postby Zrax » Fri Dec 14, 2001 3:38 pm

I respect leaders who do handouts. They know full well going in that they will take alot of crap for how they split 5 items across a group of 15 but do it anyway because its just a better system. People get what they need and what helps their class rather than stock a bag for sales later. Blung, Lazz, Cherzra all do handouts for the most part, all take crap for it, all have people talk bad about them behind their back for it but are directly responsable for the amount of success the evils have had this wipe because of it.

The reward of zoning should be playing the game together with a bunch of friends against the zone. Any equipment you gain because of it should be just a bonus.

If you are going to have a problem with not getting something from a zone, make sure you ask the leader the split method before ever joining the group.
Frobakhal
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Postby Frobakhal » Fri Dec 14, 2001 5:43 pm

The problem here isn't because I didn't get an item from a zone..it's because this 'leader' decided in his own interrest that I didn't deserve this item. Both myself and the other person already had one identical fish scales and it just goes to show how poor handouts can go. I've heard the same story from people, I'd like to say gura even almost deleted over how eq is handed out. Leaders aren't perfect and handing out eq is just asking for trouble because people are forgotten and it almost always ends up that someone will end up getting more then they should.

Bidding on eq allows players to build up other chars too. It's fast, painless, people can bid on less needed items and almost have a sure win, they can trade their items...hell you can even make it so you can only bid on items your current charater can use..if you can't use it..leader revokes the item..ie..You have already two amy's, and you bid on another...guess you're outta luck. If it means quest items...that is different..and yeah then you can bid least that's how I'd do it. Handout eq is lame...most of the time it's limited to within the guild anyhow where presidence takes over. I hate rank systems....you say you shouldn't concern yourself about eq and just have fun doing zones...well you can have more fun with friends not zoning with less headaches. If you are going to zone for hours on end you should have an equal chance at the eq like everyone else...if you show to the zone 5 times...then you're 5 times more likely to get that item...enough said.
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Postby Moi » Fri Dec 14, 2001 6:42 pm

i think having bid the eq out it should have gone to the winner. In this case the Leader felt it would be better used on a different person. In the end You have to deal with his/her decision.

Is a fish scale earring really worth giving yourself an Anurism over? Especially since the Leader told you he'd take you to get another one!

------------------
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Zrax
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Postby Zrax » Fri Dec 14, 2001 6:42 pm

Fro,

Ok i reread the thread, I was confused in the web of person1, person2 stuff.

I didnt notice you said there was a bid on the item and you had won the bid. I still believe what i said in my previous post about handouts.... however you should have gotten the earring in this situation. A leader shouldnt switch the method up after a person has won the item like that. If that is indeed the case you are right, that was very lame.
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Postby Yayaril » Fri Dec 14, 2001 6:51 pm

Bidding = dumb. Equal chance for equal work!!


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Moi
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Postby Moi » Fri Dec 14, 2001 6:59 pm

Bidding isn't dumb.. It deffinatly works better in certain circumstances than it does in others..

One person will think something is unfair while the other thinks the decision was handed down from God himself.

Opinions are like As$holes..Everybody has one.

This is mine.
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Postby sok » Fri Dec 14, 2001 7:29 pm

i had goodie upbringing so bidding is good
after playing evils a while i did handouts til i got majority complains and people almost quitting, i changed to bidding. now i get minority complains, which i can live w/. a smaller population dont follow me cuz of bids. anyways frob do what ilshad.

oh.. i have no collection of mikar leading spanks. i think my mind is turning into mush.
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Postby thruar » Fri Dec 14, 2001 7:51 pm

Doing eq splits in any fashion has always been the most waste of time on the MUD. It's one reason why I hand out fast as I can, not always going to be fair but then again you can't keep everyone happy all the time. With that in mind, if you play with the right people you are going to get the eq. Just takes some time and patience.

I've had very little headache with group about eq splits. One of the reason why I specifically tried to group with people who hold similar beliefs as a gamer. By definition a gamer to me is not about the money or in this case the eq, its about the people and how many of us spent so many hours together sharing the same interests. Some people including myself sees it as a game in a way that we would play for the sake of companionship and just to do zones because it's fun and at times not the eq. Sure eq is one of the agenda on the list if the game is to be more fun, but never felt it should be what makes a game. The player you are playing with is what makes the game. People should come to realize that maybe your enjoyment here might improve. This does not apply to everyone. People have their own views on what's enjoyable. Of course, it's just my personal opinion.

You tell Player 'smite!

Player tells you 'ok! Where we smiting today?

You tell Player 'I don't care mang, lets just do something coz its fun that's why we are on!
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Postby rylan » Fri Dec 14, 2001 8:38 pm

I haven't had any problems with eq splits either.. but then again I usually hang with generally the same people, so thats probably why.

Even so, I think handout type splits are the best. Leader asks what couple items everyone wants, then hands stuff out. If you plan on zoning with the same general people, then that works best, since the group will go back to the zone to get stuff for those who still need.

Some cooperation also helps... if you don't need something, or if you've been getting some cool stuff lately, then abstain from a bid to let other people get stuff. Image
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Postby Frobakhal » Fri Dec 14, 2001 8:43 pm

I agree it should be fun..but when stuff like this occurs it makes you think about why you even bother to help certain people out. I got asked to go to the zone..I didn't want to go at first but because the leader needed me I went. And this is how he shows his gratitude...well screw that. This isn't the only time I've gone in a group with this particular leader and I have yet to get something in his groups which just goes to show that handouts is lame... I figured perhaps he wasn't such a bad person..but he proves that from his method of splitting he's not looking out for others. Only a few people who hand out do that..but for the most part the eq goes to their guild members or people who already have extremely good eq and have nothing else to bid on...anyhow bidding has less hassels...and I think bidding is the way to go. If you think bidding is a waste of time...think of it as the lottery..if you go more often your chances of winning are increased. It also promotes gambling and addictions. *snicker*
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Postby Yayaril » Fri Dec 14, 2001 8:45 pm

Oops, I meant to say 'Handouts = dumb'. That'll teach me to post at 4am.


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Postby Delduwath » Fri Dec 14, 2001 9:20 pm

As an inexperienced zoner I am having some problem following this post. Can someone please define how bidding works (i.e. How does one bid on eq?, how many bids does someone get?, how are winners determined?). I know its a pretty basic question but am still interested in knowing how it works.
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Postby Galok Icewolf » Sat Dec 15, 2001 12:09 am

All I gotta say is if people constistantly zone with me, or consistantly zone period, not just once a week thing, I'm more likely to give them stuff. THEY are there when i need them... not just a tag along. In this situation i fully support the leader.

People whine no matter what you do. Lead the zone yourself if you don't like it.
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Postby moritheil » Sat Dec 15, 2001 12:39 am

- aneurysm
- IMHO the problem is NOT handout, it is inconsistency. Like I said before, if I want an item and then forgot to mention I wanted it and someone else needs it, I give it to them. It sucks to dice and win and then lose out. I would only override if nobody minds.

We did GC, HP, BG yesterday, others got the twisty, onyx, etc. We didn't have enough items to go around, so I agreed to nothing but the cash. I did get cestus in the end after one guy gave it back and noone wanted it, but I offered to group first. We did handout system with ppl just saying what they wanted, and it worked fine. I can def. see in higher end zones only a few items and more ppl needed, so this could end in rancor.

Oh and props to a certain grey elf warrior who didn't want anything because he already had one of everything Image
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Postby kiryan » Sat Dec 15, 2001 1:12 am

agree thruar and others, but then you end up getting called elitists and other garbage heh.

personally, i dont care how things get split. i get irked just like frob when the split method changes after its decided. But, the leader in question is good and fair imo.
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Postby Jasix Prowlingwolf » Sat Dec 15, 2001 1:22 am

I agree with Frobs. Most leaders are wannabe heros that get their kicks from having people suck up to them to get what they want. Oh you disagree? hehe prob cause you either have your head up a leaders ass or your the leader that only hears what your toadies tell you.

I'm not going to bother doing any major zones for a while til I find leaders worth following. I have for the last time followed someone for a few hours only to get a hand down from another zone. I really dont give a flying fuck if it's a greta item, It's a hand-me-down. If the player that won the item handed to me cause he thought i needed it most then find, but leaders that want to dictate everything can go take a hike.

I fight for my right to a fare CHANCE at what i want, not have to suck up for months to be in favour to be handed that item. Oh but THIS person is loyal to me and zones with me all the time so he desrves it.. rofl what a fucking cop out, that still feathering your OWN nest cause your too affraid to give it to the guy that needs it most cause he might not be needed next time so YOU don't get the benifit of them having that item. Most leaders wouldn't agree, why? cause it's the truth and most poeple hate the truth.
Ketroc is one of the few i have followed lately that did hand-outs and gave items to peolpe he probably doesn't play with much. Good on him for having some goodness and less 'guildness'.
There is only ONE true fair way to split eq unless your in a guild and you dont mind being told what to do.
The item is bid to those that NEED and if the winner has a hand-me-down THEY not the leader desides who gets the hand-off. If the guy with the scaret rings wins his first Eldritch ring then cool!! he fought for it he deserves just as much right to wi it as the guy that has 1 eldritch ring and 1 tit ring. Handing down the tit ring to him out of pity is not right, give him a chance to bid for what he wants unless of course you honestly believe that anyone you bring into a zone to do a job is worth less then another....

You can only please everyone if you let them bid, peasing one or two people with hand outs is a cheap ass way for leaders to avoid writing down bid numbers.

You take the time to lead a zone for 3 hours, take the time to give your troups a FAIR go, if they dont need the item they will not be upset they didn't get to bid for a trade.
Ever notice that leaders don't need any items? They have them all cause they just claim them first time.. heheh makes sence if your a toadie, doesn't if your on the wrong end of the stick every time...

Flame away!!
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Postby moritheil » Sat Dec 15, 2001 1:32 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Delduwath:
As an inexperienced zoner I am having some problem following this post. Can someone please define how bidding works (i.e. How does one bid on eq?, how many bids does someone get?, how are winners determined?). I know its a pretty basic question but am still interested in knowing how it works.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good questions, all with no easy answer. It really does vary by leader; touk has one way, nlariar has another, etc. Sometimes it's mixed bid-handout, sometimes it's modified bid like Touk or Zala, sometimes it's all handout... Ask your leader if you want to know.
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Postby moritheil » Sat Dec 15, 2001 1:33 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by thruar:
<B>You tell Player 'smite!

Player tells you 'ok! Where we smiting today?

You tell Player 'I don't care mang, lets just do something coz its fun that's why we are on!</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is me exactly, I even use the term smite! *peer*
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Postby cherzra » Sat Dec 15, 2001 1:32 pm

Jasix you have a serious problem. Every other post of yours is like this: 'fuck leaders. They cheat, they twink, they give eq to friends, leading takes no effort at ALL, they suck, I wont zone or follow anyone cause they are all assholes'

Tell me oh oracle, when was the last time you lead scorps/seers/clouds? Tell me oh great one, how many people are wearing eq because YOU got up and lead a zone instead of saying 'I'm bored someone lead something....'. What's that? Zero? Then shut up, you sound like a bitter old man.
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Postby Zen » Sat Dec 15, 2001 10:21 pm

Play favorites, give EQ to the ppl who you can count on and give the rest the left overs. I used to think that bidding was fair and right, everyone fought and those who didn't have should get a chance to bid, then I started getting bitched at by the winners, and the loosers alike. Take care of your people and the people you want to hang out with. Sad, but since everyones going to get mad, best take care of the people who take care of you.

-Zaryn
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Postby Kuurg » Sat Dec 15, 2001 11:01 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Zen:
<B>Play favorites, give EQ to the ppl who you can count on and give the rest the left overs.
-Zaryn</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hope you're a goodie, because Kuurg won't be grouping with you. everyone doing a zone is risking the same thing - they're entitled to the same reward.

------------------
·•Kuurg•·
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Postby Cerlayne » Sun Dec 16, 2001 12:58 am

well geesh.. i was gonna post on this then i wasn't back and forth... but since i spent 4 hours today and 3 last night tryin to get online because my landlord cut my phone line trimmin my yard and hasn't authorized payment to phone company yet to fix it... btw rain mixed with a spliced duck taped phone line is not good... i've had time to think bout this topic and get a lil grumpy... cheer me... limited handouts are good and fair... long as done properly... ie tellin vault group at end that neb is claimed is lame... but sayin at beginning oh btw cerly looks pathetic and she hasn't won vambs in 6 trips any objects to her gettin em is not lame... i didn't get em that way but its an example... grin... for the most part i believe in bids... open bids.. yeah it ticks me off to see a warrior piece eq go to a mage or vice versa but since i won't create a secondary til cerly hits 50th i have no need for anything but warrior eq.. maybe when i'm tryin to eq an alt that won't tick me off so much .. i'm the type who will usually either not bid or bid for someone else if i have what i need from zone... if i'm lookin to trade for eq i'll bid on lower piece eq... if i'm biddin for someone else i tell the group.. if i bid eq i'm gonna sell or give away i tell group to give it to someone who needs it.. leftovers toss me something... but then again eq doesn't mean alot to me this time round... 3 years ago i was an eq twink and hog... thank gawd some things change.. anyways hrmm not so grumpy now that i can logon.. cheer me

Cerly 'WOOOOO my guilds in' L'ytria
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Postby Gormal » Sun Dec 16, 2001 3:34 am

If people are unhappy with splits then lead yourself and stop whining. Don't follow us who choose to handout alot of the time. Most of the leaders on this mud are stacked because we play a hell of a lot more then most others. Leaders that dice are always stacked just like those that dont. Anyone ever notice Dizahk or Mplor struggling for eq?

WARNING! By following ANY leader you agree to understand that person reserves the right to bid as they choose. Whining about this will result in being refused groups by that leader if they so choose. By joining any group you agree to follow the leader and his decisions, including how the spoils should be split.

If the equipment gained from zoning is your primary reason for playing, and you care more getting it yourself then I suggest playing another game.
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Postby Grintor » Sun Dec 16, 2001 6:24 am

leading requires a good sense of direction. i still get lost in my own city so i could never do it.

nothing has changed from the toril days guys, just now we have a forum to bitch on instead of keeping our whining amongts those we feel brave enough to send such a tell to.

take a break and come back. this place is not worth the stress.
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Postby Kegor » Sun Dec 16, 2001 6:26 am

I was just informed of this thread by Xserreellex (Frobokal) after being denied a shift and groupping with him on and off today. I was not aware it had become a hostile situation.. Image

So basicly Xserreellex, you started a thread (and fabricated that whole last part with my name on it) because I handed out eq to someone besides you after changing my mind.. and you didnt like the fact I didn't care that you weren't happy?

Congratulations... you win the whiner of the year award. Of course I don't care if you like the way I split eq. There have only been three people that have bothered to tell me that they didn't like the way I split eq.. and you are the third. You think you are so important and so vital to a group.. you are wrong in this case. We had three other illithids come with us to sg (and I daresay they were more useful as far as shifting people around). I didn't hear eany whining from them now did I?

I would also like to point out for the record here that I think this post is a joke because when I lead, I rarely take anything for myself (I did want that fish scale too believe it or not and did not give myself a bid). For you to think you are that special to create a post because you now have something against me for this.. as I just found out when you wouldn't shift me.. makes me laugh my ass off. Image

Good job man.. I hope you got what you wanted out of this post. It dissapoints me also to think that you will not be joining me again when I lead stuff for other people. You are not only selfish, but also a cry baby. Thank you for the laugh.

-Jaznolg, Eq Split Nazi! Sieg Heil!
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Postby Frobakhal » Sun Dec 16, 2001 6:45 am

I think it's funny how someone such as yourself can deny the fact that you are a poor leader and flame people for being afk when you're on a your drinking binge. Personally I can give a damn about you if you need me to zone/shift you around. I have no hangups with anyone else but you've already proven to me more then once what type of person you are. I'm not whining about eq, I want fairness in a game where it's suppose to be fun. The fact that you have flamed me in the past and purposely avoided giving me a piece of equipment that I rightfully won pissed me off. I don't think that's fair and why should I help you then? Sorry but I'll stick to my friends who appreciate my help. You talk big like you don't claim stuff, most of your eq was handouts and there isn't much you even need in the some zones. Because I started playing here at a later date doesn't mean that I'm a nobody, sure if I started like you all did I'm sure I would be decked out as well...but don't try and make it sound like you're some mr. nice guy about not claiming anything, you've gotten alot of nice eq since I've been in the groups with. I just wanted to use you as an example of what poor leadership is all about, perhaps this will help make you realize how imperfect you are..because you sure don't make yourself out like that on the forums. I have spoken with other people who feel the same, so you trying to center me out hasn't worked...nice try.

Frob.
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Postby Kegor » Sun Dec 16, 2001 7:29 am

That drinking binge stuff is a load of crap. I have a beer or two every once and a while when I play and save the heavy drinking when I party with my friends. I don't know why I am getting defensive about this.. I guess you are just starting to piss me off.

Yes.. I have flamed you and other people in past groups for doing stupid things that you should know not to do. Things that will set me off are as follows: repeatedly being AFK, not bashing your target, telling the group to do something when you are not leading, and wandering away from group. That is not really the issue here though.. and I would not call it flames.

That stuff about favoritism and other people sharing your opinion of that is ridiculous. If you are not able to tolerate doing a with limited caster items in it, for the benifit of other people, you really have no place in my groups.. because thats what they are all about. I don't lead the 50 only zones or anything like that, because when we have the group for that online, there are more respected leaders available to lead that. And I am real sure that if this post was directed at one of them.. you would be blacklisted and outcast from evilkind for your whining and selfishness.

Back to me being rude to people that mess up thier job. Yes I am no angel when it comes to repremanding people for doing poorly.. I would like people to learn how to play the game to the best of thier classes ablility. Keep in mind though.. I am not there for eq.. so any one person that does not like the way I give something out to other people will be laughed at in my opinion. Be real man.. you started this post because you didn't get your measley little fish scale earring. I was not against you or out to get you.. you are paranoid to think I changed my mind to screw you out of getting eq. Hell if you would've asked me for that same item today instead of showing me this post, I would have handed it to you because I did the zone again and I claimed that item for myself this time. (Well in all honesty.. maybe not.. just because you whined so much.)

Those statements about me being a poor leader should be thought about. I take offense to that, and the fact that this whole topic roots from an eq split. Under no circumstances should you get all bent out of shape over an eq split. I lead that zone for fun.. and to help some people get eq. Sorry it wasn't you (not really now).. but I'm sure if you cry enough the person I decided deserved and needed more than you will grow sick of your whine as I have and just give it to you.

Either way.. I was trying to help people out and have fun at the same time... and I was successful. These rants of yours do not change that in the slightest.

Enjoy being a selfish lame ass who thinks leaders are against him when he doesn't get the eq he wanted. You are truly pathetic, and I hope that fact has been noted by other leaders who seek to avoid such lame attitudes in thier quest to have thier fun here.

-Jaznolg
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Postby Frobakhal » Sun Dec 16, 2001 9:18 am

Obviously you are missing the point. We're talking about fairness here...oh and I won't be joining him in his groups anymore. I have lead my own groups and I know the whole bit about organizing and putting up with stuff...one reason I don't bother forming gruops because people don't like when I let peopel bid on eq. But I never, NEVER cheat anyone out of something, even if I don't like them if they put in their fair share of the zoning. Think about what I just said.
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Postby Frobakhal » Sun Dec 16, 2001 9:27 am

Futhermore in my defense..I've put up many of times from you jaznolg you telling me to globe, (globe of darkness) when you KNOW about the bug and I'm not purposely avoiding to make the room not dark that's silly...I even make a trigger so leaders who tend to loose their heads quicky won't blow up. Another note with being afk..the ONLY time I was with you was when you JUST asked me to group...I was in the middle of fixing something and you blame me for not shifting the group in asap? You were the one who logs off and leaves the group sitting around wondering wtf you left for...only to find out later on late one night I get a tell from you telling me I suck (read post above)...I don't need that shit and you very well know that time I was semi afk...if you have trouble putting upwith other peoples faults you don't have to use me to flame. For one thing I'm too old for that sort of thing, little kids flame people when they don't get what they want...I just want to see some honest leadership coming from you. If you think you talking about leading zones is gonna help you here on the forums to make yourself look good, think again. I've lead brass, jot, all of UD, IC, etc etc...I've also lead a ton of zones on Duris AND Basternae...so whoever thinks I don't know about leaders is WRONG. I know what happened and I don't like it... I've always been fair in my groups...you obviously keep missing the point and for that you don't have my respect as being a leader, and I will not follow or even bother helping you if you ask for it. Because you only look out for your own interrests. If you really wanted my help, instead of telling me how wrong you are...perhaps you should apologize and tell me you didn't know this earring was not wb, or apologize about the time when you flamed me the night when I was afk fixing my camera and you stompered off because jaznolg had to wait on a group member. :P
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Postby Frobakhal » Sun Dec 16, 2001 9:38 am

Oh and I'm sure I would be leading more zones if it wasn't for the fact I wasn't around for sojourn2, and started late playing sojourn3. I don't need you, and I have plenty of friends and old school who would hang with me in zones. You know why? Because I respect them, and they respect me...I haven't seen that coming from you one bit.

I know all about people going afk when leading zones, or screwing up..but I also learned something through my experiences. That is you don't flame people about it and keep them out of bids...most of the time they have good reason for being afk and MOST of the time they let leaders know...like emergencies...sometimes people get lag and miss bash...you don't know what all goes on and if one person screws up and gets a group killed...you bite your tongue and move on...you don't later flame them out because you THINK you know what was happening at the time. If you don't think the person who is in your group is reliable then don't group them, or at least get backup. I admit I have a fuse but I'm always quick to apologize and listen. Most of my friends who know me know I'm reliable and a good group member and leader, unfortunately most of them are gone or playing on other muds.


Xserreellex Disgrunted squid.
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Postby Kaltinerak » Sun Dec 16, 2001 9:45 am

Don't worry Frob, these chumps don't have half your skill, or 1/3 your honor. I should know.

-Kalt (Yeah, you don't know me, maybe your parents do...)
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Postby Frobakhal » Sun Dec 16, 2001 9:45 am

Oh and another thing. Why would I seriously care about a fish scale earring when I can cheese fireweeds...not that hard I've done it before...you just keep missing the point. It's not about eq..it's about your leadership style and how you represent yourself around others. You want to be a good leader..you better make sure you know what you're doing yourself before you start blaming other people for their mistakes.

That goes for anyone in any group. I never hear you apologizing for screw ups...you didn't apologize to me about the earring you just laughed in my face, literally. You called it crying when you should of said..ya know xserreellex I didn't mean to dice the earring I really feel that nubug should get it. don't tell me shit like I already have one and expect me to think that nubug is this player with no eq...he had one too. doesn't make much sense to me..I think you are just good at manipulating the facts and avoid facing the truth. Be a man, and admit that you just didn't want me to have it dispite all, or if you honestly feel you screwed up...be an even bigger man and apologize....right now you just make yourself out to be a big liar and a bigot.
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Postby Nida » Sun Dec 16, 2001 10:10 am

You'll have to pry my gun out of my cold, dead fingers!

... Oops, wrong thread.

-Nida "Shoulda made that left turn at Albequerqe" Rocheron
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Postby Kuurg » Sun Dec 16, 2001 10:17 am

I always liked that evils were a rather cohesive unit. This incarnation of the mud, we're as bad as the goodies in that department. I don't think that can be changed, there are just too many high level evils who were goodies last go around who bring the same mentality over here.

It doesn't mean we can't strive for it though. Let's drop this thread, because we'll all be happier when it's over.

If you don't stop, I'll humiliate you with my mad zmud skills, knowledge of sojourn/toril minutiae, and my very large ..uh, vocabulary.

So let's make nice and play good or I'll call you naughty names.

------------------
·•Kuurg•·
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Postby Tasan » Sun Dec 16, 2001 11:12 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Cap'n Touk:
<B>toggle rant
Further more, nobody ever says - "you know I been putting in a lot of work, and it's cool cuz *boggle* I actually like zoning, but I was wondering if I'm close to getting said item or what's what"

Cap'n T.
toggle rant</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's downright cold man, but I know how it is for ya.

Twyl "'Touk tells you 'Got a minute to help w/ a mob?"' 'You tell Touk 'You point, I punch.'" Twinshadow
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Postby Todrael » Sun Dec 16, 2001 4:32 pm

This is not Sojourn1. This is not Toril, or Basternae, or Sojourn2, or Duris. Welcome to Sojourn3.

Old school doesn't mean anything if you show no skill. Xserreellex has yet to prove to me, or anyone else I know, that he has worth, usefulness, and skill in this incarnation of the mud. Past deeds are exactly that, in the past. You are not a leader. You haven't lead jot, or brass, or -anything- this wipe. Your lack of knowledge that is useful to -today- is quite evident, such as your statement of twinking Fireweed.

Jaznolg led the zone, Jaznolg can do whatever the heck he wants with the eq. I didn't understand this when I first started zoning, but it was quickly ingrained. Paranoia about not getting an item is ridiculous. Leaders quickly find out which players whine about splits, and which don't. You ever think maybe Jaz was trying to placate the other person, instead of trying to stomp on you?

It's my feeling that you have some major stress problems you need to get out, and frustrations with this game. Anger tends to not be the best way to do this, as it just serves to alienate those around you. I've taken to playing super easy/solo/hack n slash/pk muds in my off time. I suggest you find some relaxation somehow.

-Todrael
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Postby Zoldren » Sun Dec 16, 2001 4:59 pm

Pinky says:
before you get good eq
1)you do shit loads of zones,
2)not gona continue/finish not worth it Image
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Postby Vipplin » Sun Dec 16, 2001 5:50 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Delduwath:
As an inexperienced zoner I am having some problem following this post. Can someone please define how bidding works (i.e. How does one bid on eq?, how many bids does someone get?, how are winners determined?). I know its a pretty basic question but am still interested in knowing how it works.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In a pure bidding system, each member of the group "bids" on one item. That means you tell the leader what you want from the stuff the group collected. The leader then gives those items to the people who bid on them. If more than one person bid on an item, then the leader randomly (usually using the dice function) decides who gets it. After all the items that were bid on are handed out, the second round begins if there is still more eq. The people who did not get anything in the first round bid again on the items that are left. Continue until all items are given out.

There are many variations on that, as Moritheil said.

Now, I would just like to say that in general I've been very happy with the way the leaders I've followed have split eq. Some have done handouts, some have done bids, but I have always felt that they did their best to be fair, so I've been happy. Some of the names that come to mind (this is not exhaustive) are - Touk, Gormal, Corth, Rellanor... Xaril has been fun to follow on a couple mini-eq runs that included stuff I needed Image Sometimes I've gotten nothing, sometimes not even a bid - but in those situations I usually thought someone else could better use the eq or needed it more, so I was fine with it.

I am sure I'll eventually feel shafted by a split, but as long as I feel the leader is really trying to be fair I won't bitch. Splits should be random, skill/contribution-based, or need-based. Anything else is probably unfair. Unfair split? Consider not following that person next time until you find out how they plan to split eq that zone.

I have used pure bids when I've led so far. I think any method can work if the leader makes an effort to be fair and gives the group some notice.

Vadian rolls his eyes as he loses the bid for a tiny golden earring for the 6th time.

(Yes, I've had 2 for a long time now, but that memory of trying to get #2 will linger! Image )

[This message has been edited by Vipplin (edited 12-16-2001).]
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Postby Frobakhal » Sun Dec 16, 2001 6:31 pm

In response to a few posts about why I haven't been leading zones this wipe. Mainly it's because I don't want to at the moment. I like to get to know people first so I know what I'm leading with so that means following other people for awhile. I have aslo been adjusting to the new code and changes that have taken place which doesn't mean I don't know how to lead thank you. On top of that I've been helping other friends on here, doing quests BIG time, and in the works of getting a guild going which I have put aside atm. If I had to start leading zones right now, I'd be to preoccupied with the group then what to me right now isn't as important as forming new friendships, helping people with shift requests, etc...etc. You know as well as I do if you're a new face that people who are higher level then you are not as willing to follow you, and some even give you a hard time which I think is bs if you're leading. Personally I'd rather zone with inexperienced players who show a willingness to learn and enjoy zoning instead of players who want to repremant other people because they didn't do a particular mob or spellup. Not worth my time... At least not now.
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Postby Zrax » Sun Dec 16, 2001 6:35 pm

Man im considering giving him a fish scale just to shut him up. My admitadly limited experience with Xserreellex in zones is someone who goes afk all the time and causes far more problem than good. Jaznolg is a good guy with a big mouth, but at least he pulls his weight.
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Postby Frobakhal » Sun Dec 16, 2001 6:59 pm

And what makes you think I go afk? I never afk in zones idiot. Stick up for your guildmate all you want. I lag, I purposely avoid answering tells because I can't handle it when I'm getting 4 or 5 tells at a time and I'm busy trying to lead a group of blind folk around. I can't believe I'm hearing this from someone like you Zrak. The only time I afk if you call it that is when doing experience and I am NOT afk that long..shit everyone has to take a break for that purpose. I'd like to hear examples of me being afk in doing zones....get real man.
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Postby Jegzed » Sun Dec 16, 2001 7:01 pm

Feh, quit whining.

Jaznolg is my guildmate and I consider him as a friend here, and I stand by my guildmates.

You lose a frag!
You have been killed by a Minotaur!
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Postby Frobakhal » Sun Dec 16, 2001 7:04 pm

I can't believe some of the crap I'm hearing from some people on here...This is isn't the same group of people I remember playing with. I don't see you going out of your way to help others out. I think this is starting to turn into a two sided issue here. People looking out for friends and just that. The ONLY reason I started this thread is because of an unjust action a particular person did and you can side with whoeever all you want. People who know me, KNOW I pull my weight for ALOT of people. If you think otherwise then you can go to hell. :P
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Postby Frobakhal » Sun Dec 16, 2001 7:37 pm

I never should of started this thread. If it wasn't for his attitude I wouldn't of posted the other section about him flaming me that night..I was mad pissed at him. I shouldn't let my emotions get the better of me...I'm not replying to any more responses. I am just as bad posting this on the forums I apologize for that, but don't expect me to help you out considering your mentality about me.

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