Sniff, my 2nd goodbye thread was "closed" (after the first one was deleted). And I was really looking forward to people saying "good riddance!" or "i'll miss you!" etc, etc. Anyways, goodbye! (again)
Corth
Goodbye!
RE: BS
Miax is great, the admins are great. They all spend a lot of their time and money to keep the mud open for us to play in.
You know what makes the mud great? We do. This place would be nothing without the players. 99% of the muds out there are dead and gone because no one wants to play them anymore.
Sitebanning players because you dont like what they say is bullshit. This bbs is here so you can have feedback. So what if Corth agreed with Cherzra that Chaos was "silly"? Lots of other people didn't like it either. Why wasn't Cherzra sitebanned? Cause he didn't have the balls to stick up for himself after you singled him and Corth out?
Are you guys really that afraid of what Corth or others might say that you have to delete and close off threads?
Its my position, that if you create something and put it out for the public, you should be ready for some criticism, some good and some bad.
Of course its your mud, do what you want.
But you obviously dont want people who disagree or have an opinion of their own playing here.
You should probably siteban me too then,
Cullen, my IPs probably logged in this post.
Miax is great, the admins are great. They all spend a lot of their time and money to keep the mud open for us to play in.
You know what makes the mud great? We do. This place would be nothing without the players. 99% of the muds out there are dead and gone because no one wants to play them anymore.
Sitebanning players because you dont like what they say is bullshit. This bbs is here so you can have feedback. So what if Corth agreed with Cherzra that Chaos was "silly"? Lots of other people didn't like it either. Why wasn't Cherzra sitebanned? Cause he didn't have the balls to stick up for himself after you singled him and Corth out?
Are you guys really that afraid of what Corth or others might say that you have to delete and close off threads?
Its my position, that if you create something and put it out for the public, you should be ready for some criticism, some good and some bad.
Of course its your mud, do what you want.
But you obviously dont want people who disagree or have an opinion of their own playing here.
You should probably siteban me too then,
Cullen, my IPs probably logged in this post.
None of this is a flame or intended at any specific person. Just my obervations on the mud in general. 
Players make a mud.
Why yes! Yes, they do.
However, this mud would be nothing without every single God working their ass off only to receive more bitching from some ungrateful people.
I was pissed near the end of the pkill night. Why? Cuz people were killing me in one hit with uber weapons and uber hps. Know what I did? I logged off. Isn't that rational?
Why people feel the need to bite the hand that feeds them, I don't know. You're lucky you're playing here. I'm lucky I am playing here.
No player is owed anything. Not a single one.
The people who are owed something are the Gods who put up with our crap (we all bitch, some more than others, but we all do). They not only deserve a pat on the back, but a whole truckload of respect.
If they were afraid of anyone saying anything, all of this would have been kept secret and rumors would abound and it would be permanent. None of that happened here. The Gods are being more than generous here. The Forgers have been extremely courteous in this situation from what it seems.
Is it really so wrong to want a little bit of respect?
I don't think it is.
I don't think any rational person does either.
Dornax
Jurdex
Players make a mud.
Why yes! Yes, they do.
However, this mud would be nothing without every single God working their ass off only to receive more bitching from some ungrateful people.
I was pissed near the end of the pkill night. Why? Cuz people were killing me in one hit with uber weapons and uber hps. Know what I did? I logged off. Isn't that rational?
Why people feel the need to bite the hand that feeds them, I don't know. You're lucky you're playing here. I'm lucky I am playing here.
No player is owed anything. Not a single one.
The people who are owed something are the Gods who put up with our crap (we all bitch, some more than others, but we all do). They not only deserve a pat on the back, but a whole truckload of respect.
If they were afraid of anyone saying anything, all of this would have been kept secret and rumors would abound and it would be permanent. None of that happened here. The Gods are being more than generous here. The Forgers have been extremely courteous in this situation from what it seems.
Is it really so wrong to want a little bit of respect?
I don't think it is.
I don't think any rational person does either.
Dornax
Jurdex
Cullen,
I deleted the thread last night, so I will respond to this just once. Anything else you have to say about this subject, please direct to the Admin Forger, Miax.
That thread was deleted because of a personal attack (aka flaming) towards a Staff member. It had nothing to do with anyone stating their opinion. Please re-read the last 1283902 Forum posts, and it will be quite clear that many, many people speak their mind without repercussions on this BBS.
However, as stated in Post #1 in this Forum, personal attacks against the Staff will not be accepted here, ever.
That is why I deleted the thread. Anything else is between Corth and Miax.
------------------
<B>Shevarash -- Code Forger of Sojourn3
</B>
I deleted the thread last night, so I will respond to this just once. Anything else you have to say about this subject, please direct to the Admin Forger, Miax.
That thread was deleted because of a personal attack (aka flaming) towards a Staff member. It had nothing to do with anyone stating their opinion. Please re-read the last 1283902 Forum posts, and it will be quite clear that many, many people speak their mind without repercussions on this BBS.
However, as stated in Post #1 in this Forum, personal attacks against the Staff will not be accepted here, ever.
That is why I deleted the thread. Anything else is between Corth and Miax.
------------------
<B>Shevarash -- Code Forger of Sojourn3
</B>
Why yes I am owed something!
If, rightly so, "personal attacks against the Staff will not be accepted here, ever", why can't we expect the same from the Staff towards the players?
Why should Miax be able to single Corth out and call him a whiner and expect him not to defend himself?
Miax didn't attack Corth personally? I guess we'll never know for sure!
I wish I were Miax so I could teleport people out while they are doing a zone and siteban them! In fact, I wish I were God so I could smite down whoever I come across that I don't like! Just last week my roommate said he didn't like my haircut and I said hey fuck off! but man it would have been sweet if I coulda fried him with a lightning bolt from my ass or something.
What was that? Fuck off this is none of your business you said? Hell no Im MAKING this my business because so far its costed me 2 friends and 2 guildmates.
There are lots of people out there who dont think Corth should have been sitebanned, but most of them won't post. You know why? Because they're thinking "HOLY SHIT CULLEN WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING?!??! YOU'RE GOING TO BE DELETED!! I DONT WANT TO BE DELETED!!! I SPENT 230948230984 HOURS ON MY CHAR AND I NEED THIS MUD OH SO BADLY AND WHAT IF I POST AND THEY SITEBAN ME TOO?!!?"
And that my friend is the beginning of the end.
If, rightly so, "personal attacks against the Staff will not be accepted here, ever", why can't we expect the same from the Staff towards the players?
Why should Miax be able to single Corth out and call him a whiner and expect him not to defend himself?
Miax didn't attack Corth personally? I guess we'll never know for sure!
I wish I were Miax so I could teleport people out while they are doing a zone and siteban them! In fact, I wish I were God so I could smite down whoever I come across that I don't like! Just last week my roommate said he didn't like my haircut and I said hey fuck off! but man it would have been sweet if I coulda fried him with a lightning bolt from my ass or something.
What was that? Fuck off this is none of your business you said? Hell no Im MAKING this my business because so far its costed me 2 friends and 2 guildmates.
There are lots of people out there who dont think Corth should have been sitebanned, but most of them won't post. You know why? Because they're thinking "HOLY SHIT CULLEN WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING?!??! YOU'RE GOING TO BE DELETED!! I DONT WANT TO BE DELETED!!! I SPENT 230948230984 HOURS ON MY CHAR AND I NEED THIS MUD OH SO BADLY AND WHAT IF I POST AND THEY SITEBAN ME TOO?!!?"
And that my friend is the beginning of the end.
oh my god is cullen the infamous bob? i'll never forget that particular ooc night..
anyway i been here for 6 years now. i only started playing to talk to my fiance who was addicted, then i got hooked. i was always deathly afraid of any of the imms, even for that one week they let me try my hand at the admin thingy. we do put a lot of work into our characters and i never wanted to make any waves in the game or bring any kind of attention down on me.
however during my stint mudding i have also helped run muds and built many areas on muds, mainly circle muds. most muds dont last more than 2-3 years and here's why - their forgers have no clue how to make a game.
our forgers do. c'mon folks. Brad McQuaid, Aradune to the Torilites, based a lot of the content of Everquest on toril. it smelled like toril, it looked like toril (if you never took your eyes off the text box) and it played like toril to an extent. Mr. Kortright and his crew have done a wonderful job in bringing us a great game, and it's always been because of petty bullshit on the part of dumbshit players who think they are owed anything that has closed it down, twice!
i do NOT want to see a third time.
just because you been playing this game since soj1 before duris split gives no one the right to badmouth the folks upstairs.
the bbs was around during toril days, but remember how scared anyone was to have an opinion? now we can all voice our opinions (also called whining) without any repurcussions, provided we dont attack any of the humans running the game. why that so hard?
anyway i been here for 6 years now. i only started playing to talk to my fiance who was addicted, then i got hooked. i was always deathly afraid of any of the imms, even for that one week they let me try my hand at the admin thingy. we do put a lot of work into our characters and i never wanted to make any waves in the game or bring any kind of attention down on me.
however during my stint mudding i have also helped run muds and built many areas on muds, mainly circle muds. most muds dont last more than 2-3 years and here's why - their forgers have no clue how to make a game.
our forgers do. c'mon folks. Brad McQuaid, Aradune to the Torilites, based a lot of the content of Everquest on toril. it smelled like toril, it looked like toril (if you never took your eyes off the text box) and it played like toril to an extent. Mr. Kortright and his crew have done a wonderful job in bringing us a great game, and it's always been because of petty bullshit on the part of dumbshit players who think they are owed anything that has closed it down, twice!
i do NOT want to see a third time.
just because you been playing this game since soj1 before duris split gives no one the right to badmouth the folks upstairs.
the bbs was around during toril days, but remember how scared anyone was to have an opinion? now we can all voice our opinions (also called whining) without any repurcussions, provided we dont attack any of the humans running the game. why that so hard?
Mplor's 25 cent Therapy Stand
Sojourn is a labor of love for the people who run it. The more the staff contribute, the more personally they take it. It's not a business where the staff is just doing a job. In fact, if they didn't take it personally, I don't think there would be a MUD at all because there would be no reward for all the effort. As players, we must make allowances for this. Sometimes criticism of the game will be interpreted as personal criticism of the staff.
That said, players take the game personally too. Just like the staff, players can spend years of their life creating their character(s) and building a social network and a knowledge base. We players take this game personally, and it would be a mistake to expect everyone who plays here to always be wise enought to seperate their vitriol from their otherwise constructive criticism. Some leeway must be granted; sometimes generous leeway.
Just like in RL, when two people disagree on something they both feel very strongly about, they must make an effort to see things from the other person's perspective. That's the crux of what it means when they say, 'Handle it like adults.' I've seen so many times in the past where people make the mistake of being angered at each other because of something that, at first, only had to do with playing the game. Then, the same people had too much pride to repair the damage done. This mud has lost a lot in its lifetime because of that. Sometimes it was the MUD that closed the doors, sometimes it was players that burned the bridges behind them.
Guys, you can be right but still be in the wrong. Nobody wins if nobody gives an inch. Mistakes will be made, its inevitable. Part of being adults is repairing bridges we've damaged, no matter what side you are on. Too much pride leaves everyone in the right yet emptyhanded.
That will be 25 cents please.
Sojourn is a labor of love for the people who run it. The more the staff contribute, the more personally they take it. It's not a business where the staff is just doing a job. In fact, if they didn't take it personally, I don't think there would be a MUD at all because there would be no reward for all the effort. As players, we must make allowances for this. Sometimes criticism of the game will be interpreted as personal criticism of the staff.
That said, players take the game personally too. Just like the staff, players can spend years of their life creating their character(s) and building a social network and a knowledge base. We players take this game personally, and it would be a mistake to expect everyone who plays here to always be wise enought to seperate their vitriol from their otherwise constructive criticism. Some leeway must be granted; sometimes generous leeway.
Just like in RL, when two people disagree on something they both feel very strongly about, they must make an effort to see things from the other person's perspective. That's the crux of what it means when they say, 'Handle it like adults.' I've seen so many times in the past where people make the mistake of being angered at each other because of something that, at first, only had to do with playing the game. Then, the same people had too much pride to repair the damage done. This mud has lost a lot in its lifetime because of that. Sometimes it was the MUD that closed the doors, sometimes it was players that burned the bridges behind them.
Guys, you can be right but still be in the wrong. Nobody wins if nobody gives an inch. Mistakes will be made, its inevitable. Part of being adults is repairing bridges we've damaged, no matter what side you are on. Too much pride leaves everyone in the right yet emptyhanded.
That will be 25 cents please.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by HeMang:
[BWhy wasn't Cherzra sitebanned? Cause he didn't have the balls to stick up for himself after you singled him and Corth out?
B]</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sitebanned? Huh?
Uhm, leave me out of whatever happened here last night ok? I replied with one post to Shevarash's request for future improvements to chaos in which I suggested that everyone just be level 50 with normal hp. After that I went to bed.
Now, I wake up to read all this b.s. directed at the staff which I have no part in, along with Cullen trying to point his finger at me. Cullen what is your problem?
I thoroughly respect the staff for their efforts and get along quite well with all of them. Just ask any of them. I have never posted or petitioned anything even remotely vicious in their direction, nor will I ever. Remember they provide us this game for free and the last thing they need is people bitching at them.
That being said, I don't want anyany part of any whining or abusive comments to the staff, so leave me out of your vendettas and crusades. God knows what zones you guys twinked, what you petitioned or posted here, but you did it yourselves. The mud and admins are so relaxed this time around, but you still manage to get yourselves into trouble? Sheesh, amazing. Solve your own problems and kindly leave my name out of it.
[BWhy wasn't Cherzra sitebanned? Cause he didn't have the balls to stick up for himself after you singled him and Corth out?
B]</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sitebanned? Huh?
Uhm, leave me out of whatever happened here last night ok? I replied with one post to Shevarash's request for future improvements to chaos in which I suggested that everyone just be level 50 with normal hp. After that I went to bed.
Now, I wake up to read all this b.s. directed at the staff which I have no part in, along with Cullen trying to point his finger at me. Cullen what is your problem?
I thoroughly respect the staff for their efforts and get along quite well with all of them. Just ask any of them. I have never posted or petitioned anything even remotely vicious in their direction, nor will I ever. Remember they provide us this game for free and the last thing they need is people bitching at them.
That being said, I don't want anyany part of any whining or abusive comments to the staff, so leave me out of your vendettas and crusades. God knows what zones you guys twinked, what you petitioned or posted here, but you did it yourselves. The mud and admins are so relaxed this time around, but you still manage to get yourselves into trouble? Sheesh, amazing. Solve your own problems and kindly leave my name out of it.
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kiryan
- Sojourner
- Posts: 7275
- Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
- Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
- Contact:
players and gods need to think about what the contribute to sojourn and what we receive in turn. We all contribute something to sojourn by logging on. We all get something in return or we wouldnt be here. Its not like a job where you get paid so you can do other things in life.
imo, gods are not all that different than the players. Gods are not better than the players, were all equal (to an extent. players are far easier to come by than gods). The image that gods are slaving away for the players is perhaps a bit mythical.
Most, if not all of us, are doing what we enjoy. Different strokes for different folks. Some like building and administering, most like playing. This does not make players inferior to gods. If there were no players what would the gods do? If there were no gods, what would the players do? We all participate in a complex community where we fulfill our various needs.
We, gods and players, would be wise not to go on power trips and try to withold whatever it is that we contribute (playing, admining, zones ect...). We would be wise not to maliciously attack fellow community members in-game or on the bbs. We would be wise to respect each community member as you would someone in rl. There are always assholes out there that will try to disrupt communities and do whatever they want without concern for others, not much the rest of us can do cept hope for the best.
I would add some exception for those who go to incredible lenghts to contribute to the community.. people like miax who provides the financial and RL substance that makes the Soj possible. Shev and Mask who have been pillars of stability and contributed consistent and long term direction to the mud. Player contribution is generally selfish, but should still be measured. People like Corth and Ossis who find ways to "break" the game so the gods can improve it. Elite folks who give some of us someone to hate and strive to surpass. People who contribute ideas and feedback on the bbs. People who provide companionship and help to those that are needy.
I really doubt that there is anyone that participates in our community that gets nothing in return. Any of us can be replaced, but, the next player, god, mud may not be as good as this one so lets all do our best.
edit
hmmm then again, the people who started the community have more than enough right to make sure that it stays true to their original intentions.
[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 01-07-2002).]
imo, gods are not all that different than the players. Gods are not better than the players, were all equal (to an extent. players are far easier to come by than gods). The image that gods are slaving away for the players is perhaps a bit mythical.
Most, if not all of us, are doing what we enjoy. Different strokes for different folks. Some like building and administering, most like playing. This does not make players inferior to gods. If there were no players what would the gods do? If there were no gods, what would the players do? We all participate in a complex community where we fulfill our various needs.
We, gods and players, would be wise not to go on power trips and try to withold whatever it is that we contribute (playing, admining, zones ect...). We would be wise not to maliciously attack fellow community members in-game or on the bbs. We would be wise to respect each community member as you would someone in rl. There are always assholes out there that will try to disrupt communities and do whatever they want without concern for others, not much the rest of us can do cept hope for the best.
I would add some exception for those who go to incredible lenghts to contribute to the community.. people like miax who provides the financial and RL substance that makes the Soj possible. Shev and Mask who have been pillars of stability and contributed consistent and long term direction to the mud. Player contribution is generally selfish, but should still be measured. People like Corth and Ossis who find ways to "break" the game so the gods can improve it. Elite folks who give some of us someone to hate and strive to surpass. People who contribute ideas and feedback on the bbs. People who provide companionship and help to those that are needy.
I really doubt that there is anyone that participates in our community that gets nothing in return. Any of us can be replaced, but, the next player, god, mud may not be as good as this one so lets all do our best.
edit
hmmm then again, the people who started the community have more than enough right to make sure that it stays true to their original intentions.
[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 01-07-2002).]
There's a difference. Players contribute to help themselves and other players. Gods contribute to help... players.
When you spend 6 hours doing Jot and come out with a new item, you've earned something that makes the game more fun for you. When you code a bugfix for 6 hours and remove a crashbug, you let someone else do Jot, and that's your reward.
The staff has put together this game for us to play. When you go to a movie, you don't come out and expect your money back because "the producers should be grateful I came at all." The difference between god and player is, when you log on you usually say "man, what do I feel like doing today...?". When Shevarash logs on, he probably says "man.. what needs to be done today?"
- Ragorn
When you spend 6 hours doing Jot and come out with a new item, you've earned something that makes the game more fun for you. When you code a bugfix for 6 hours and remove a crashbug, you let someone else do Jot, and that's your reward.
The staff has put together this game for us to play. When you go to a movie, you don't come out and expect your money back because "the producers should be grateful I came at all." The difference between god and player is, when you log on you usually say "man, what do I feel like doing today...?". When Shevarash logs on, he probably says "man.. what needs to be done today?"
- Ragorn
Shrug, call me inappreciative..
there are thousands of muds out there.. There are millions of books.. there are billions of people. I have 16 waking hours a day. If I'm going to do something, I want it to be quality. So yes, if i devote a lot of time to a mud, or anything else, I'm gonna have very strong opinions on how to make it better.
So yes, I have criticized certain things the gods have done on this mud, when I thought it was wrong. For instance, the jot thing. And some people agreed with me, and others didn't. That's fine. But apparently it got under the skin of some of the gods.
I got flamed by Miax in the chaos thread for writing, and I quote "heheh, chaos is kind of silly. I think the gods are having more fun than anyone else." Some other dude wrote a 2 page rant, but did he get singled out by Miax as a complainer and whiner? No, he didn't. But I did.
I don't want this thread to be deleted too, so im not gonna get into any more specifics of what happened. Suffice to say, there are plenty of things I can spend my time on other than mudding on sojourn. My view is that by me leaving, the mud loses, not me. The chances of me apologizing so that I can come back and be a good little boy are about nil. I don't play that game. Frankly, the mud isn't worth losing my self-respect.
Corth
there are thousands of muds out there.. There are millions of books.. there are billions of people. I have 16 waking hours a day. If I'm going to do something, I want it to be quality. So yes, if i devote a lot of time to a mud, or anything else, I'm gonna have very strong opinions on how to make it better.
So yes, I have criticized certain things the gods have done on this mud, when I thought it was wrong. For instance, the jot thing. And some people agreed with me, and others didn't. That's fine. But apparently it got under the skin of some of the gods.
I got flamed by Miax in the chaos thread for writing, and I quote "heheh, chaos is kind of silly. I think the gods are having more fun than anyone else." Some other dude wrote a 2 page rant, but did he get singled out by Miax as a complainer and whiner? No, he didn't. But I did.
I don't want this thread to be deleted too, so im not gonna get into any more specifics of what happened. Suffice to say, there are plenty of things I can spend my time on other than mudding on sojourn. My view is that by me leaving, the mud loses, not me. The chances of me apologizing so that I can come back and be a good little boy are about nil. I don't play that game. Frankly, the mud isn't worth losing my self-respect.
Corth
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Ilshadrial
- Sojourner
- Posts: 417
- Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2001 6:01 am
- Location: Atlanta
- Contact:
I have always thought CHAOS on sojourn was a waste of time and never have personally taken the time to participate in the CHAOS crap. But I also think it might be good for those power mudders who like to hack crap up which is really all that is left on Sojourn3 now. So it is only fair that the gods cater an event to the power mudders of Sojourn, n'est pas?
Anyway, I have had great times on sojourn since 1993, now I am in search of the next best alternative.
Best of luck to you Corth.
Ilshad aka Kevin
Anyway, I have had great times on sojourn since 1993, now I am in search of the next best alternative.
Best of luck to you Corth.
Ilshad aka Kevin
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ssar
- Sojourner
- Posts: 1446
- Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 6:01 am
- Location: Newcastle, NSW, Australia
- Contact:
Oh, sad to hear you are leaving Corth.
The times you took me hunting, I thoroughly enjoyed, and I respect you as a great player of this game.
I dont know, nor care about all the bullshit related to your leaving or anyone's banning or whatever.
As for chaos, I am far from a power player, and I hate pkill, hardly ever enter acheron, and so on.
But sojourn3 chaos xmas was some of the best fun Ive had online.
Thanx to all the imms for all thier work and coding in it.
Oh, and if chaos were up just a few more hours, I would have owned you all.
Mwahahaha!
Mogr.
The times you took me hunting, I thoroughly enjoyed, and I respect you as a great player of this game.
I dont know, nor care about all the bullshit related to your leaving or anyone's banning or whatever.
As for chaos, I am far from a power player, and I hate pkill, hardly ever enter acheron, and so on.
But sojourn3 chaos xmas was some of the best fun Ive had online.
Thanx to all the imms for all thier work and coding in it.
Oh, and if chaos were up just a few more hours, I would have owned you all.
Mwahahaha!
Mogr.
"My view is that by me leaving, the mud loses, not me. " - Corth
God damn dude! Even I am not that arrogant...
Look, let's put it this way. Something you said hit a nerve with Miax. Perhaps just some side comment you meant as a joke or sarcasm and he took seriously. Either way, he's pissed. I mean, even the hundreds of pages of ranger whining didn't manage to piss him off this much! Just apologize, and then everyone can just forget about it and go back to zoning or whining about real issues like elven warriors or something. Apologizing shouldn't take away your self respect, in fact it should improve it. Instead of being an ass it means you have realized you made a mistake and want to make amends for it. That makes you a better person by far..
Sarvis
God damn dude! Even I am not that arrogant...
Look, let's put it this way. Something you said hit a nerve with Miax. Perhaps just some side comment you meant as a joke or sarcasm and he took seriously. Either way, he's pissed. I mean, even the hundreds of pages of ranger whining didn't manage to piss him off this much! Just apologize, and then everyone can just forget about it and go back to zoning or whining about real issues like elven warriors or something. Apologizing shouldn't take away your self respect, in fact it should improve it. Instead of being an ass it means you have realized you made a mistake and want to make amends for it. That makes you a better person by far..
Sarvis
I made a mistake? Well some of you might think I did.. but I don't. So as far as I'm concerned there is nothing for me to apologize for.
I responded to a flame, with a flame. I dont care if it is Miax, the Pope, some bum on the street, or God himself that insulted me.. if I get flamed, I am going to respond. I didn't start this. I have nothing to apologize for.
I am not going to post anymore about this subject on this bbs. I wanted this to be more of a goodbye than a discussion on what caused me to leave. I'll write a full post later discussing what happened on the dark storm rising bbs later on today. You will be able to see it at www.dsrising.com (and I promise the admin there won't delete your posts!).
Corth
[This message has been edited by Corth (edited 01-07-2002).]
Well some of you might think I did.. but I don't. So as far as I'm concerned there is nothing for me to apologize for. I responded to a flame, with a flame. I dont care if it is Miax, the Pope, some bum on the street, or God himself that insulted me.. if I get flamed, I am going to respond. I didn't start this. I have nothing to apologize for.
I am not going to post anymore about this subject on this bbs. I wanted this to be more of a goodbye than a discussion on what caused me to leave. I'll write a full post later discussing what happened on the dark storm rising bbs later on today. You will be able to see it at www.dsrising.com (and I promise the admin there won't delete your posts!).
Corth
[This message has been edited by Corth (edited 01-07-2002).]
I think if I ever leave, I'll quote Pink Floyd...
"Goodbye cruel world, I'm leavin' you today... Goodbye, Goodbye, Goodbye.
Goodbye all you people, there's nuthin' you can say to make me chaaange my mind... Goodbye."
But who am I kidding, that's not likely to happen.
Anyway, may the sun shine warmly on your face, and may you have success in your ventures Corth.
Toplack
"Goodbye cruel world, I'm leavin' you today... Goodbye, Goodbye, Goodbye.
Goodbye all you people, there's nuthin' you can say to make me chaaange my mind... Goodbye."
But who am I kidding, that's not likely to happen.
Anyway, may the sun shine warmly on your face, and may you have success in your ventures Corth.
Toplack
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Corth:
Shrug, call me inappreciative..</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You're inappreciative.
That's the most self-righteous thing I've ever heard.
Bye Corth. Try not to let the gates hit you in the ass on the way out. One less exploiting powergamer that S3 has to worry about.
- Ragorn
Shrug, call me inappreciative..</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You're inappreciative.
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">My view is that by me leaving, the mud loses, not me.</font>
That's the most self-righteous thing I've ever heard.
Bye Corth. Try not to let the gates hit you in the ass on the way out. One less exploiting powergamer that S3 has to worry about.
- Ragorn
Ok now listen,
Probably only 50% of the mud population knows me, I haven't been able to play much during prime hours lately. Hopefully those who do know me consider me a generally nice person with at least a little bit of integrity. So here are my thoughts.
First, Ragorn you are a jerk. Here is Corth, a guy who obviously cares about the mud enough to consistently voice his opinion in this forum and who is clearly hurt by being banned. And you say don't let the door hit you in the ass?
You really missed out in your career as a police negotiator. Hey! There is a jumper on the roof! Get Ragorn! Ragorn says, "Jump! You suck anyway!"
Nice.
Listen, people make mistakes, emotions get out of control, yeah this is just a game, but it is a game that a lot of people are passionate about. Kudos to the gods for that.
I think everyone involved needs to take a step back and think about their positions.
I am sure this will work out for the best.
-Retark
Probably only 50% of the mud population knows me, I haven't been able to play much during prime hours lately. Hopefully those who do know me consider me a generally nice person with at least a little bit of integrity. So here are my thoughts.
First, Ragorn you are a jerk. Here is Corth, a guy who obviously cares about the mud enough to consistently voice his opinion in this forum and who is clearly hurt by being banned. And you say don't let the door hit you in the ass?
You really missed out in your career as a police negotiator. Hey! There is a jumper on the roof! Get Ragorn! Ragorn says, "Jump! You suck anyway!"
Nice.
Listen, people make mistakes, emotions get out of control, yeah this is just a game, but it is a game that a lot of people are passionate about. Kudos to the gods for that.
I think everyone involved needs to take a step back and think about their positions.
I am sure this will work out for the best.
-Retark
I cannot comment on most of this since I didn't read the offending posts. I can only take the admins and Corth's word on the topic, which is not a good policy.
Speaking from Toril days, this really is a "kinder, gentler" MUD and no matter what the truth of the matter, the fact that the admins gave Corth a way out (an easy way out at that) speaks to this fact.
This will not make me more or less afraid to post my views, even if they directly contradict or even bash on those of the admins. Hell, I expected bannings to be issued when there was a discussion of Mystra's "policies" and attitudes awhile back, but none happened. My views and my willingness to post them remain the same.
Retark:
I assure you that much less than 50% of the MUD knows you
------------------
Elseenas of No House Worth Mentioning
Speaking from Toril days, this really is a "kinder, gentler" MUD and no matter what the truth of the matter, the fact that the admins gave Corth a way out (an easy way out at that) speaks to this fact.
This will not make me more or less afraid to post my views, even if they directly contradict or even bash on those of the admins. Hell, I expected bannings to be issued when there was a discussion of Mystra's "policies" and attitudes awhile back, but none happened. My views and my willingness to post them remain the same.
Retark:
I assure you that much less than 50% of the MUD knows you
------------------
Elseenas of No House Worth Mentioning
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Vipplin:
<B>Well, Corth, I hope you choose to return. Vipplin will lose a great potential mentor should you decide not to return.
Things will work out one way or the other. Good travels whichever path you choose!
Vadian/Vade/Vipplin</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hi Vipplin. Illusionists are fun. So if your not going to play anymore Corth Put your Character up on Ebay. heeh. Are all goodbye posts always this interesting?
<B>Well, Corth, I hope you choose to return. Vipplin will lose a great potential mentor should you decide not to return.
Things will work out one way or the other. Good travels whichever path you choose!
Vadian/Vade/Vipplin</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hi Vipplin. Illusionists are fun. So if your not going to play anymore Corth
Put your Character up on Ebay. heeh. Are all goodbye posts always this interesting?-
kiryan
- Sojourner
- Posts: 7275
- Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
- Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
- Contact:
corth is right, we all lose when a player/god leaves.
players arent the only ones making selfish contributions. when a god fixes a bug, adds an area, catches a rule breaker, he gets personal satisfaction. Gods get respect from players and other gods. Its a different value system. To someone who enjoys playing, gods dont seem to get anything in return but its comparing apples to oranges.
Why would they be here if they didnt enjoy being gods? No one is paying them, no one is forcing them to play gods in order to play as a mortal (as a matter of fact gods are discouraged from playing tehir mortals frequently). They play gods because its what they like it and it fits their personality.
players arent the only ones making selfish contributions. when a god fixes a bug, adds an area, catches a rule breaker, he gets personal satisfaction. Gods get respect from players and other gods. Its a different value system. To someone who enjoys playing, gods dont seem to get anything in return but its comparing apples to oranges.
Why would they be here if they didnt enjoy being gods? No one is paying them, no one is forcing them to play gods in order to play as a mortal (as a matter of fact gods are discouraged from playing tehir mortals frequently). They play gods because its what they like it and it fits their personality.
now that corth is gone hmmm dam decisions<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by kiryan:
<B>corth is right, we all lose when a player/god leaves.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hey Captain Winkie,
Did you happen to figure out the whole matter that leaving is based on his decision. No one is forcing him to leave, and I don't see how your quote makes any sense in that regard.
The MUD loses in two situations; When the respect the players have for the time the immortals invest in the game's integrity is lost, or when the immortal's take their players for granted.
I don't see how the latter is true in this case, as all involved were supposedly voicing their opinions on the improvement of the game.
Don't ever try to say that the players are more important then the people directly responsible for making the game available. Though there may not be as many as there once were, there will always be people who love this place and will see it through the good times and bad.
Players are important, but compared to the few individuals who will put in their time(and money in some cases) for free for several years, they are but another piece of the game itself.
People disagree about things all the time, and small arguments can usually be fixed if the two parties are willing to compromise on their ideas and beliefs. If Corth chooses to leave, it is of his own will, he's not being pushed away. I think personally he just needs some time to consider things, and in the end, maybe leaving will be best, but why be hasty?
Treebeard was a god.
Twyl
<B>corth is right, we all lose when a player/god leaves.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hey Captain Winkie,
Did you happen to figure out the whole matter that leaving is based on his decision. No one is forcing him to leave, and I don't see how your quote makes any sense in that regard.
The MUD loses in two situations; When the respect the players have for the time the immortals invest in the game's integrity is lost, or when the immortal's take their players for granted.
I don't see how the latter is true in this case, as all involved were supposedly voicing their opinions on the improvement of the game.
Don't ever try to say that the players are more important then the people directly responsible for making the game available. Though there may not be as many as there once were, there will always be people who love this place and will see it through the good times and bad.
Players are important, but compared to the few individuals who will put in their time(and money in some cases) for free for several years, they are but another piece of the game itself.
People disagree about things all the time, and small arguments can usually be fixed if the two parties are willing to compromise on their ideas and beliefs. If Corth chooses to leave, it is of his own will, he's not being pushed away. I think personally he just needs some time to consider things, and in the end, maybe leaving will be best, but why be hasty?
Treebeard was a god.
Twyl
-
Jasix Prowlingwolf
- Sojourner
- Posts: 258
- Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 6:01 am
- Location: Forster Keys, NSW Australia
- Contact:
*rofl* The high and Mighty getting upset over a 2 day pkill fest? ROFL!!! I didn't play much but I got killed once by mistake by my druid friend dooming while i was ungrouped.. hehe was hell funny!!
I got no idea what Corth had to say and really i dont give a shit. His thoughts are his and mine and mine. But the ONLY person that tried to cast offensive spells on me the whole time was Corth.. Rofl he couldn't kill me tho :P Slow caster *Mahahahah*
I dont have a problem with Corth so don't take anything i ramble on about personally. But it cracks me up to see someone that has zoned more then most get shitty over something that was fun... Rofl OH MY Jurdex was killed by some lesser person just cause they had a kick ass weapon Imagine the shame!! *rofl* Wonder if the mobs whine every time you guys with "Twinklights" and "Dudewheresmyavernusbringer" proc fuck them to death day in day out??
Chaos gives fools like me that couldn't be bothered being the best dressed wankers have some fun with shit we dont get usualy cause we not popular enough any more to get help or support to get them.
Cheers for loading it. I'm still pissed with Mogr for not letting me kill every last one of you with Lloths dagger :P Might have been my only chance hehe... rofl The mud is NOT a game it's life for many of us no matter how we play the game so being upset over a few days of unusual mudding is just so lame. people say I need a break fro the mud man when power players get upset over the "fucking about time" makes me think I'm not so fucked up in the head after all. The only ones that should complain are the little guys that have to go back to being low lvl with shit eq.....
*On a side note... Leveling everyone to 50 and giving them kick ass eq for a day or two HELPS teach some of the not so familiar players learn a little about what they have to do when they do get to lvl 46... Or should we keep them all in the dark??*
I say every full moon should be Chaos Sojourn! Pkill sucks! Chaos RULES!
Bring it on muddafarkers!
I got no idea what Corth had to say and really i dont give a shit. His thoughts are his and mine and mine. But the ONLY person that tried to cast offensive spells on me the whole time was Corth.. Rofl he couldn't kill me tho :P Slow caster *Mahahahah*
I dont have a problem with Corth so don't take anything i ramble on about personally. But it cracks me up to see someone that has zoned more then most get shitty over something that was fun... Rofl OH MY Jurdex was killed by some lesser person just cause they had a kick ass weapon Imagine the shame!! *rofl* Wonder if the mobs whine every time you guys with "Twinklights" and "Dudewheresmyavernusbringer" proc fuck them to death day in day out??
Chaos gives fools like me that couldn't be bothered being the best dressed wankers have some fun with shit we dont get usualy cause we not popular enough any more to get help or support to get them.
Cheers for loading it. I'm still pissed with Mogr for not letting me kill every last one of you with Lloths dagger :P Might have been my only chance hehe... rofl The mud is NOT a game it's life for many of us no matter how we play the game so being upset over a few days of unusual mudding is just so lame. people say I need a break fro the mud man when power players get upset over the "fucking about time" makes me think I'm not so fucked up in the head after all. The only ones that should complain are the little guys that have to go back to being low lvl with shit eq.....
*On a side note... Leveling everyone to 50 and giving them kick ass eq for a day or two HELPS teach some of the not so familiar players learn a little about what they have to do when they do get to lvl 46... Or should we keep them all in the dark??*
I say every full moon should be Chaos Sojourn! Pkill sucks! Chaos RULES!
Bring it on muddafarkers!
I was one of those people who didn't like the idea of chaos. I did not log on at all for the 18 hour period. However, I was free to check the bbs for updates and caught Cherzra's thread. I responded with my post which I thought was pretty harsh without being inflammatory. Soon after, I caught Miax's response. He did not sound happy to me. His post named Cherzra and Corth yet I could myself being the cause too. I went back and changed a few words. I figured, as a fellow human being, everyone deserves certain respect. I respect anyone and everyone so you will never see me bad mouthing people. I once got into a fight with my dad because he thought he deserved more respect than other people. I disagreed with that notion and believe everyone should be equal. He asked me if Osama Bin Laden deserves the same respect that he does? I said that it all really depends on your point of view. If fact it is. The world has no true greatness nor true evil. Everything is relative and is highly dependable on your point of view. My grandmother has taught me that if you can constantly think in the other person's shoes, then you would never get into a fight with the person.
What happened here is that Corth and Miax both refused to look at things from each other's perspective. Corth was not in the wrong for voicing his opinion but what he forgot to do was to think why he was singled out. That requires looking at things from Miax's perspective. Overall, Miax had shown great constrant and coolheadedness yet he would've been a bigger man if he didn't act at all. Isn't there a saying that "Less is more?" There was really no need for Miax to justify his chaos. The other players were already doing it for him. But of course, everyone is allowed to be angry once in a while
Corth will be missed by those who miss him and the event will be remember for future reference.
Yssilk
What happened here is that Corth and Miax both refused to look at things from each other's perspective. Corth was not in the wrong for voicing his opinion but what he forgot to do was to think why he was singled out. That requires looking at things from Miax's perspective. Overall, Miax had shown great constrant and coolheadedness yet he would've been a bigger man if he didn't act at all. Isn't there a saying that "Less is more?" There was really no need for Miax to justify his chaos. The other players were already doing it for him. But of course, everyone is allowed to be angry once in a while
Corth will be missed by those who miss him and the event will be remember for future reference.
Yssilk
Yssilk if everything is relative, then both Miax and Corth were correct; therefore, no one was in the wrong. If everything is relative with no absolute. no greatness or evil in this world, bin Laden is justified in his actions. the folks who hackjacked those planes did not commit any crime. Cannibelism shouldn't be punished. If there is no absolute, then 2+2 can be 5. This is off the subject, but u might want to look at your theory of relativity.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by sok:
Yssilk if everything is relative, then both Miax and Corth were correct; therefore, no one was in the wrong. If everything is relative with no absolute. no greatness or evil in this world, bin Laden is justified in his actions. the folks who hackjacked those planes did not commit any crime. Cannibelism shouldn't be punished. If there is no absolute, then 2+2 can be 5. This is off the subject, but u might want to look at your theory of relativity. </font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I believe that was his point, it all depends on your point of view.
Bin Laden thinks he is doing the world justice by "masterminding" (Read: Scapegoat) terrorism, while we don't.
The people involved in September 11th thought they were doing a great good, upholding the Holy War, while we don't.
Some cultures are cannibals, they see nothing wrong with it,j while we don't.
Ever hear of Chaos Mathematics?
And what's the recurring theme? "We don't"
So, for just about anyone else in the world, what they think is right, "we don't"
What we think is right, maybe THEY don't.
Ermm, I'm going to stop this thought right here before I go back into history and start an all-out flame war
------------------
Taegost, The one and ONLY STUPER DRUID(tm)
Yssilk if everything is relative, then both Miax and Corth were correct; therefore, no one was in the wrong. If everything is relative with no absolute. no greatness or evil in this world, bin Laden is justified in his actions. the folks who hackjacked those planes did not commit any crime. Cannibelism shouldn't be punished. If there is no absolute, then 2+2 can be 5. This is off the subject, but u might want to look at your theory of relativity. </font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I believe that was his point, it all depends on your point of view.
Bin Laden thinks he is doing the world justice by "masterminding" (Read: Scapegoat) terrorism, while we don't.
The people involved in September 11th thought they were doing a great good, upholding the Holy War, while we don't.
Some cultures are cannibals, they see nothing wrong with it,j while we don't.
Ever hear of Chaos Mathematics?
And what's the recurring theme? "We don't"
So, for just about anyone else in the world, what they think is right, "we don't"
What we think is right, maybe THEY don't.
Ermm, I'm going to stop this thought right here before I go back into history and start an all-out flame war
------------------
Taegost, The one and ONLY STUPER DRUID(tm)
I'm sorry, but when we are talking about two people having an argument over things on a mud, albeit as personal this place is to people, and we start bringing in and comparing it to things like Sept. 11, it has gotten WAY out of hand. I don't care what happens on this mud, it should not be related in any way to an event as disturbing as the terrorist attacks. Even if the situations are somewhat similar, it's is down right wrong to compare these arguments to events that caused the death of thousands of real people. IT'S WRONG. Please leave those types of things off these boards.
Corth has made his decision, and so has Miax. If they choose to resolve it, so be it. If they don't, that's their problem. Please leave this thread for what it was intended to be, a goodbye.
Be good Corth, be safe in life, live it as well as you can.
[This message has been edited by Galkar (edited 01-11-2002).]
Corth has made his decision, and so has Miax. If they choose to resolve it, so be it. If they don't, that's their problem. Please leave this thread for what it was intended to be, a goodbye.
Be good Corth, be safe in life, live it as well as you can.
[This message has been edited by Galkar (edited 01-11-2002).]
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