top 12 reasons for war

Archive of the Sojourn3 General Discussion Forum.
cichlids
Sojourner
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2003 2:29 pm

top 12 reasons for war

Postby cichlids » Thu Mar 06, 2003 5:10 pm

1) Saddam Hussein is wicked
2) he won't be able to put up much resistance
3) we need a cheap supply of good oil
4) the economy is stuck
5) our missile warheads are rusting away
6) new destruction weapons must be tested
7) it would be good for Israel
8) it would be bad for Russia
9) we like a good intense show
10) we like to feel civilized
11) some Muslims don't appreciate all that we do for them
12) in general, we have very high principles and very low instincts
thanuk
Sojourner
Posts: 1902
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 5:01 am
Contact:

Postby thanuk » Thu Mar 06, 2003 5:57 pm

1. Iraq has violated the terms of the 1991 gulf war cease fire.

2. Iraq has violated 17 separate U.N. resolutions.

3. The United Nations concluded in 1999 that Saddam Hussein had biological weapons sufficient to produce over 25,000 liters of anthrax -- enough doses to kill several million people. He hasn't accounted for that material. He's given no evidence that he has destroyed it.

4. The United Nations concluded that Saddam Hussein had materials sufficient to produce more than 38,000 liters of botulinum toxin -- enough to subject millions of people to death by respiratory failure. He hadn't accounted for that material. He's given no evidence that he has destroyed it.

5. Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent. In such quantities, these chemical agents could also kill untold thousands. He's not accounted for these materials. He has given no evidence that he has destroyed them.

6. U.S. intelligence indicates that Saddam Hussein had upwards of 30,000 munitions capable of delivering chemical agents. Inspectors recently turned up 16 of them -- despite Iraq's recent declaration denying their existence. Saddam Hussein has not accounted for the remaining 29,984 of these prohibited munitions. He's given no evidence that he has destroyed them.

7. From three Iraqi defectors we know that Iraq, in the late 1990s, had several mobile biological weapons labs. These are designed to produce germ warfare agents, and can be moved from place to a place to evade inspectors. Saddam Hussein has not disclosed these facilities. He's given no evidence that he has destroyed them.

8. The International Atomic Energy Agency confirmed in the 1990s that Saddam Hussein had an advanced nuclear weapons development program, had a design for a nuclear weapon and was working on five different methods of enriching uranium for a bomb.

9. The current Iraqi government currently engages in torture, murder, and kidnapping to suppress the views of anyone who does not agree with their policies.

10. They have engaged in the "ethnic cleansing" of Kurds in Northern Iraq for a number of years.

11. Saddam Hussein has personally rewarded the families of suicide bombers with large sums of money. Regardless of what he says, his actions clearly support terrorism and encourage terrorist action.

12. Iraq is an aggressive nation that has shown in the past desires to conquer its neighbors. It has attempted to invade Iran and Kuwait in recent years, proving it only desires peace when it has nothing to gain from war.



Reasons 3-8 are direct quotes from the Bush's 2003 State of the Union Address, a transcript of it can be found here.
Mysrel tells you 'have my babies'
You tell Mysrel 'u want me to be ur baby daddy?'
Mysrel tells you 'daddy? No, I think you have the terminology wrong'
You tell Mysrel 'comeon now we both know i would be the top'
Mysrel tells you 'can be where ever you want to be, yer still getting ****** like a drunken cheerleader'
cichlids
Sojourner
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2003 2:29 pm

Postby cichlids » Thu Mar 06, 2003 6:16 pm

1.The US has violated the terms of the 1991 gulf war cease fire.
Setting up "no Fly zones" that were never mentioned in the cease fire


2. Iraq has violated 17 separate U.N. resolutions.
Has performed countless actions in many countries without UN mandates. Not a member of the landmines agreement.

3. The United Nations concluded in 1999 that Saddam Hussein had biological weapons sufficient to produce over 25,000 liters of anthrax -- enough doses to kill several million people. He hasn't accounted for that material. He's given no evidence that he has destroyed it.

Well, considering nuclear capability great enough to destroy the planet several times over.....

4. The United Nations concluded that Saddam Hussein had materials sufficient to produce more than 38,000 liters of botulinum toxin -- enough to subject millions of people to death by respiratory failure. He hadn't accounted for that material. He's given no evidence that he has destroyed it.

And biological weaponry unrivaled

5. Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent. In such quantities, these chemical agents could also kill untold thousands. He's not accounted for these materials. He has given no evidence that he has destroyed them.

6. U.S. intelligence indicates that Saddam Hussein had upwards of 30,000 munitions capable of delivering chemical agents. Inspectors recently turned up 16 of them -- despite Iraq's recent declaration denying their existence. Saddam Hussein has not accounted for the remaining 29,984 of these prohibited munitions. He's given no evidence that he has destroyed them.

7. From three Iraqi defectors we know that Iraq, in the late 1990s, had several mobile biological weapons labs. These are designed to produce germ warfare agents, and can be moved from place to a place to evade inspectors. Saddam Hussein has not disclosed these facilities. He's given no evidence that he has destroyed them.

8. The International Atomic Energy Agency confirmed in the 1990s that Saddam Hussein had an advanced nuclear weapons development program, had a design for a nuclear weapon and was working on five different methods of enriching uranium for a bomb.

9. The current Iraqi government currently engages in torture, murder, and kidnapping to suppress the views of anyone who does not agree with their policies.

The US engages in blackmail, birbery and threats and sanctions to anyone who doesnot agree with its policies.

10. They have engaged in the "ethnic cleansing" of Kurds in Northern Iraq for a number of years.

The US has supported with weapony the ethnic cleansing of kurds in both Iraq and Turkey

11. Saddam Hussein has personally rewarded the families of suicide bombers with large sums of money. Regardless of what he says, his actions clearly support terrorism and encourage terrorist action.

The US has rewarded the terrorists themselves when they were performing terrosist acts upon others (See: BinLAden in the 80's)

12. Iraq is an aggressive nation that has shown in the past desires to conquer its neighbors. It has attempted to invade Iran and Kuwait in recent years, proving it only desires peace when it has nothing to gain from war.

See some 60 actions soince WWII including invading Grenada because a en ELECTED socialist governmet took controll of government.
thanuk
Sojourner
Posts: 1902
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 5:01 am
Contact:

Postby thanuk » Thu Mar 06, 2003 6:25 pm

cichlids wrote:1.The US has violated the terms of the 1991 gulf war cease fire.
Setting up "no Fly zones" that were never mentioned in the cease fire


Just because they weren't mentioned in the cease fire doesn't mean that setting them up violates that cease fire.

cichlids wrote:2. Iraq has violated 17 separate U.N. resolutions.
Has performed countless actions in many countries without UN mandates. Not a member of the landmines agreement.

But none of those actions violated U.N. resolutions already in place.

cichlids wrote:3. The United Nations concluded in 1999 that Saddam Hussein had biological weapons sufficient to produce over 25,000 liters of anthrax -- enough doses to kill several million people. He hasn't accounted for that material. He's given no evidence that he has destroyed it.

Well, considering nuclear capability great enough to destroy the planet several times over.....

Why consider it? It has nothing to do with Iraq.
cichlids wrote:4. The United Nations concluded that Saddam Hussein had materials sufficient to produce more than 38,000 liters of botulinum toxin -- enough to subject millions of people to death by respiratory failure. He hadn't accounted for that material. He's given no evidence that he has destroyed it.

And biological weaponry unrivaled

Again, nothing to do with Iraq.
cichlids wrote:5. Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent. In such quantities, these chemical agents could also kill untold thousands. He's not accounted for these materials. He has given no evidence that he has destroyed them.

6. U.S. intelligence indicates that Saddam Hussein had upwards of 30,000 munitions capable of delivering chemical agents. Inspectors recently turned up 16 of them -- despite Iraq's recent declaration denying their existence. Saddam Hussein has not accounted for the remaining 29,984 of these prohibited munitions. He's given no evidence that he has destroyed them.

7. From three Iraqi defectors we know that Iraq, in the late 1990s, had several mobile biological weapons labs. These are designed to produce germ warfare agents, and can be moved from place to a place to evade inspectors. Saddam Hussein has not disclosed these facilities. He's given no evidence that he has destroyed them.

8. The International Atomic Energy Agency confirmed in the 1990s that Saddam Hussein had an advanced nuclear weapons development program, had a design for a nuclear weapon and was working on five different methods of enriching uranium for a bomb.

9. The current Iraqi government currently engages in torture, murder, and kidnapping to suppress the views of anyone who does not agree with their policies.

The US engages in blackmail, birbery and threats and sanctions to anyone who doesnot agree with its policies.

So does every other country in the world. What we, and those other countries dont do, is use brute force on civilians of our own nation and force our views upon them with the threat of death.
cichlids wrote:10. They have engaged in the "ethnic cleansing" of Kurds in Northern Iraq for a number of years.

The US has supported with weapony the ethnic cleansing of kurds in both Iraq and Turkey

A. prove it and b. selling someone weapons does not make you responsible for what the person does with the weapons after they buy them. If that were true, all gun manufacturers would be in prison.
cichlids wrote:11. Saddam Hussein has personally rewarded the families of suicide bombers with large sums of money. Regardless of what he says, his actions clearly support terrorism and encourage terrorist action.

The US has rewarded the terrorists themselves when they were performing terrosist acts upon others (See: BinLAden in the 80's)

Again, prove it. And again, what does that have to do with Iraq?
cichlids wrote:
12. Iraq is an aggressive nation that has shown in the past desires to conquer its neighbors. It has attempted to invade Iran and Kuwait in recent years, proving it only desires peace when it has nothing to gain from war.

See some 60 actions soince WWII including invading Grenada because a en ELECTED socialist governmet took controll of government.

During none of those actions did we attempt to take permanent control of these governments or to make them a territory of our nation. And again, what does this have to do with Iraq?

All you have done is made a pretty weak case that by the same standards, the world should try to invade the United States as well. Go ahead and try.
Mysrel tells you 'have my babies'

You tell Mysrel 'u want me to be ur baby daddy?'

Mysrel tells you 'daddy? No, I think you have the terminology wrong'

You tell Mysrel 'comeon now we both know i would be the top'

Mysrel tells you 'can be where ever you want to be, yer still getting ****** like a drunken cheerleader'
Corth
Sojourner
Posts: 6002
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 6:01 am
Location: NY, USA

Postby Corth » Thu Mar 06, 2003 8:24 pm

Honestly, Thanuk, when they start accusing the US of ethnic cleansing it is best to just ignore their idiocy. There are only two other people I know of that spew this kind of garbage and one of them got himself banished..

hrmm..... :)
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth

Goddamned slippery mage.
thanuk
Sojourner
Posts: 1902
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 5:01 am
Contact:

Postby thanuk » Thu Mar 06, 2003 8:44 pm

Your probably right, but i get some weird enjoyment out of making them say "the war against iraq isn't about iraq!"
Mysrel tells you 'have my babies'

You tell Mysrel 'u want me to be ur baby daddy?'

Mysrel tells you 'daddy? No, I think you have the terminology wrong'

You tell Mysrel 'comeon now we both know i would be the top'

Mysrel tells you 'can be where ever you want to be, yer still getting ****** like a drunken cheerleader'
muma
Sojourner
Posts: 681
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Seoul, South Korea

AGREe agree

Postby muma » Thu Mar 06, 2003 8:53 pm

i am definitely pro war :twisted: i just posted that iraq solution thing cause my brother-in-law did it and wanted to spread it around. I will be so fucking pissed if we don't go to war because they can't just get away with killing thousands of innocent people in NYC.
Es gibt keinen Löffel!
Miax OOC: 'Your blood freezes as you hear the rattling death cry of Shevarash.'
Jegzed
Sojourner
Posts: 1240
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 6:01 am

Re: AGREe agree

Postby Jegzed » Thu Mar 06, 2003 10:04 pm

muma wrote:I will be so fucking pissed if we don't go to war because they can't just get away with killing thousands of innocent people in NYC.


First of all, I'm pro war on iraq, even without UN resolution but...

Some opinions make me sick to my stomach.

Who's "they"? Not even the most ardent pro-war person puts the blame for that on Saddam and Iraq. Al-Qaida does not exactly approve of the ungodly socialist regime in Bagdad and while they may be cooperating nowadays, they are not exactly best of buddies and telling each other their top-secret plans.

However...
You do realise that there will be thousands of innocent people killed in iraq too? The estimates in dead innocent civilians from the last guld war ranges from tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands depending on what sources you base the fact upon.

If you go cheering over a war and base it on emotions of revenge... Then tell me what seperates your from the moslem terrorists?
/Jegzed - Sorcere Master - Crimson Coalition
Zen
Sojourner
Posts: 411
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2001 5:01 am
Location: Michigan

Postby Zen » Thu Mar 06, 2003 10:16 pm

I'm very much in favor of the idea that anyone who slaps us needs to be thrown a beating. I can't say I think it matters if Iraq has weapons of mass destruction or hidden bunkers with thermo nuclear hamburgers. I'm very disappointed that the administration has latched onto the 'weapons of mass destruction' issue. We have weapons of mass destruction, they have weapons of mass destruction. So what?

The issue that's being forgotten here, by nearly everyone, is that we're after terrorists. If we want to prevent terrorism, we have to make the cost of doing business too high. Any nation assisting or sponsoring terrorism needs to have it's head beat in, so to speak.

-Lorgan
Iaiken Toransier
Sojourner
Posts: 262
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Oakville, ON, CA
Contact:

Re: AGREe agree

Postby Iaiken Toransier » Thu Mar 06, 2003 10:49 pm

Jegzed wrote:Some opinions make me sick to my stomach.

If you go cheering over a war and base it on emotions of revenge... Then tell me what seperates your from the moslem terrorists?


You're not the only one Jegzed.

Weather, you go to war out of revenge or out of feux self-rightiousness more people WILL die. To me that is not acceptable, war is just the admission that you beleive you are not capable of coming to a diplomatic solution. Everyone has a price, pressure points, even world leaders.

Using the governmental regime as an excuse is hypocritical, who lifted a finger in Cambodia when the government killed millions of it's own people? Uganda, the tutsies, you can cite more examples if you wish...

Weapons of mass distruction, again, hypocritical. The United States of America has a sustained arsenal great enough to whipe out the world populous at a moments notice. How is it that fine, while anyone else; france, india, pakistan, and many other UN members, posessing those same weapons it is no longer acceptable?

WELL over 10 million people are slated to die this year of starvation in Africa, but it seems only charity groups and religious groups are willing to lift a finger so that de beers and other commodity companies can have a next generation of cheap labour.

Face it, analyzing the situation or just plain bitching about it, there is NOTHING you can do either way about what is going to happen in Iraq. Hell, it's even out of the UN's hands.

Only the ignorant man stands to say thier way is the right and only way. I mean, do we really need "another Isreal"? Instituting another government, one of American choosing, interested in protecting american interests in the middle east over that of their own people. Again, it's happened in the past, it can happen again.

Somedays I wonder about my own government, and thier interest in protecting Canda's way of life, economy, and values. Imagine if after 9-11 the Cretien government turned to George bush and said, "You have a problem, American air liners with nowhere to land are in our airspace on limited fuel. Let's sit down and settle this lumber dispute, and those payments for canadian hydro that never were recieved from american corperations." but then we really would be "America Jr."
Corth
Sojourner
Posts: 6002
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 6:01 am
Location: NY, USA

Postby Corth » Thu Mar 06, 2003 11:17 pm

Iaiken,

You honestly expect people to believe there is no difference between nukes in the hands of america or in the hands of Saddam? Come on, stop taking that stupid pill. Theres quite a big difference between a homicidal despot with a lust for territorial conquest acquiring WMD's and a democratic nation without any such motives.

What exactly people starving in Africa have to do with this, I have no idea. Suffice to say, America provides a lot more aid to African nations every year than your native Canada ever will. As for Israel, yes we are very happy that there is at least one anchor of democracy in the middle east. The leaders of the countries surrounding Israel should be ashamed of themselves for living in palaces while most of their people live in slums. If they had taken Israel's example and granted their people freedom then we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.

Corth (disgusted)
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



Goddamned slippery mage.
cichlids
Sojourner
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2003 2:29 pm

Postby cichlids » Thu Mar 06, 2003 11:52 pm

well seems like I fell on a bunch of cowboys here.

Theres no way you can convince me or 90% of the planet that this attack is justified.

I understand since you are Americans you rally around your country's policy, so I cant really blame you for that.

There are 2 superpowers left in this world. The US and global opinion.
Iaiken Toransier
Sojourner
Posts: 262
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Oakville, ON, CA
Contact:

Postby Iaiken Toransier » Fri Mar 07, 2003 12:26 am

Corth wrote:You honestly expect people to believe there is no difference between nukes in the hands of america or in the hands of Saddam? Come on, stop taking that stupid pill. Theres quite a big difference between a homicidal despot with a lust for territorial conquest acquiring WMD's and a democratic nation without any such motives.


I'm not saying that there isn't a difference, but the cold war is long dead, nuclear stand-offs are a thing of the past. What I AM saying is, there is no warrant for weapons of Mutual-destruction in. My appologies for wording it poorly with a heavy dose of sarcasm.

Corth wrote:Theres quite a big difference between a homicidal despot with a lust for territorial conquest acquiring WMD's and a democratic nation without any such motives.


First, the CIA put Saddam into power as a puppet government, he then turned on them and cut (all?) connection with them. You tell me how good of a judgement call that was, and how that is not just covert expansionism on the part of the US? See my reference on how using the regime as an excuse is hypocritical. It's fine that man other governments pose a threat to thier own people, but as soon as they pose a threat to other nations it is no longer acceptable?

Corth wrote:What exactly people starving in Africa have to do with this, I have no idea. Suffice to say, America provides a lot more aid to African nations every year than your native Canada ever will.


Right, America IS more content to help third world countries than it is to help it's own people. Whereas the Canadian government provides all of its citizens free healthcare, free high school education, as well as null-credit loans for postsecondary education based on financial need. Let's not forget academic forgiveness of debts should you graduate in the top 10 percentile. Darn, I'm SO ashamed that everyone gets a more or less fair shot at a life.

Corth wrote:As for Israel, yes we are very happy that there is at least one anchor of democracy in the middle east. The leaders of the countries surrounding Israel should be ashamed of themselves for living in palaces while most of their people live in slums. If they had taken Israel's example and granted their people freedom then we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.

Corth (disgusted)


Democracy? They kill each other over writings in books; theologies, because thier religious leaders tell them that another man following a different teaching is the enemy. They fight over a homeland that niether deserves, these people fight and die for what they BELIEVE in only because it is all that they know, all that they've been taught. War is a way of life. They don't kill because they are Muslims, because they are evil, they kill because they've been told by thier pillars of faith that this is what must be done. The proclaimation of jihad against americans is no different.

I don't care what either side has done to the other in the past, until both let go and move on or one wipes out the other, nothing will change... And we all know how likely THAT is. I wonder if there has ever been a time on earth where there wasn't a war being fought somewhere.
Iaiken Toransier
Sojourner
Posts: 262
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Oakville, ON, CA
Contact:

Postby Iaiken Toransier » Fri Mar 07, 2003 12:30 am

cichlids wrote:well seems like I fell on a bunch of cowboys here.

Theres no way you can convince me or 90% of the planet that this attack is justified.

I understand since you are Americans you rally around your country's policy, so I cant really blame you for that.

There are 2 superpowers left in this world. The US and global opinion.


Aren't cichlids those amazing little fish from africa that have genialogically diversified to the point of filling every ecological niche in the rift lakes while maintaining 99.999% of the same genetic code? Simply astounding that variations at the same aleales can give you both the 1/2 inch long guppy cichlid or the 2 meter long Emperor cichlid.
Sarvis
Sojourner
Posts: 6369
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA
Contact:

Postby Sarvis » Fri Mar 07, 2003 1:19 am

Iaiken Toransier wrote:
cichlids wrote:well seems like I fell on a bunch of cowboys here.

Theres no way you can convince me or 90% of the planet that this attack is justified.

I understand since you are Americans you rally around your country's policy, so I cant really blame you for that.

There are 2 superpowers left in this world. The US and global opinion.


Aren't cichlids those amazing little fish from africa that have genialogically diversified to the point of filling every ecological niche in the rift lakes while maintaining 99.999% of the same genetic code? Simply astounding that variations at the same aleales can give you both the 1/2 inch long guppy cichlid or the 2 meter long Emperor cichlid.


Yet evolution is impossible. ;) *pokes creationsists*
<a href="http://www.code-haven.com">Code Haven</a> - For all your programming needs.

I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to write. - Some Guy Who Paraphrased Voltaire
Corth
Sojourner
Posts: 6002
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 6:01 am
Location: NY, USA

Postby Corth » Fri Mar 07, 2003 1:27 am

Iaiken wrote:Right, America IS more content to help third world countries than it is to help it's own people. Whereas the Canadian government provides all of its citizens free healthcare, free high school education, as well as null-credit loans for postsecondary education based on financial need. Let's not forget academic forgiveness of debts should you graduate in the top 10 percentile. Darn, I'm SO ashamed that everyone gets a more or less fair shot at a life.


Ok I'm willing to let you have the last word on everything else. I just had to call you out on this. Canada provides its people "free" healthcare eh? Gosh, who is paying for that free healthcare? Oh thats right, you Canadians. And gosh, from what I've heard, the socialized healthcare system in Canada has resulted in poor quality care, long waiting lists, and more business for American healthcare providers from all those Canadian refugees looking for some decent service. Yes, all that "free" stuff has a cost. The cost is high taxes, high unemployment, lousy service, and a lackluster economy, even in the best of times. Hope you 3nj0y. :)

Corth
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



Goddamned slippery mage.
Iaiken Toransier
Sojourner
Posts: 262
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Oakville, ON, CA
Contact:

Postby Iaiken Toransier » Fri Mar 07, 2003 1:58 am

Corth wrote:Ok I'm willing to let you have the last word on everything else. I just had to call you out on this. Canada provides its people "free" healthcare eh? Gosh, who is paying for that free healthcare? Oh thats right, you Canadians. And gosh, from what I've heard, the socialized healthcare system in Canada has resulted in poor quality care, long waiting lists, and more business for American healthcare providers from all those Canadian refugees looking for some decent service. Yes, all that "free" stuff has a cost. The cost is high taxes, high unemployment, lousy service, and a lackluster economy, even in the best of times. Hope you 3nj0y. :)

Corth


I pay taxes as do my parents, though I am pissed that my tax dollars have been decompartmentalized and put into general revanues in an idiotic attempt to decrease government waste.

Also funny, how I in particular, a person living in the capital of Ontario have never run into any of the afforementioned with one exception: 5 years ago I had to wait 6 hours in Brantford General after I partially dislocated my shoulder and was listed as low priority. I was more than happy to let the guy who had just been in a motorcycle accident, as well as other more needing persons ahead of me. I was treated in due time and suffered no adverse affects. My father just won a battle with cancer, one that would have used up ANY health insurance policy available to him in the states. I fail to see the credance of your allegation.

Oh, and I hate to break it to you Corth, but the latest financial reports show canada is outperforming ALL other G7 nations as far as groth ratios are concerned... and we have for the last 7 years. It's such a hardship seeing Canada has the highest ratio of jobs that require post secondary education to jobs that don't.

Canada has a high unemployment rate only because a lot of those people live off welfare INSTEAD of getting a job, I come from a small town FULL of them. Ask ANY bartender in Dunnville and they'll tell you that the 1st & 3rd tuesday of every month is their best day. Aslo, the declining coastal fisheries play a key role in this, though since the hybernia field has been stepping up production, more high tech jobs have been popping up in the east coast, companies that cater to Americas vast energy difficiencies.

I guess just like my views of the states or any otehr nation, you'd have to live a life there to actually understand it. I just don't see what is so great other than that you're country can beat up mine.
Xisiqomelir
Sojourner
Posts: 870
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2002 5:01 am
Location: Ixarkon
Contact:

Postby Xisiqomelir » Fri Mar 07, 2003 2:07 am

cichlids wrote:There are 2 superpowers left in this world. The US and global opinion.


Actually I'd have liked to have seen global opinion smash the evils of Communism/Socialism the way the US did :D
Thus spake Shevarash: "Invokers are not going to be removed"

Gura: ..btw, being a dick is my god given right as an evil.
Kerath
Sojourner
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Thornhill, Ontario, Canada
Contact:

Postby Kerath » Fri Mar 07, 2003 2:10 am

Ok I'm willing to let you have the last word on everything else. I just had to call you out on this. Canada provides its people "free" healthcare eh? Gosh, who is paying for that free healthcare? Oh thats right, you Canadians. And gosh, from what I've heard, the socialized healthcare system in Canada has resulted in poor quality care, long waiting lists, and more business for American healthcare providers from all those Canadian refugees looking for some decent service. Yes, all that "free" stuff has a cost. The cost is high taxes, high unemployment, lousy service, and a lackluster economy, even in the best of times. Hope you 3nj0y. :)[/quote]

Of course, privatization is the solution to everything. It always creates better service, lower prices, lowered taxes, and generally increases the effectiveness of the provided service. Why, just take a look at California after it privatized energy... oh wait... :wink:

So far, as a Canadian, I've had no problems whatsoever with the health care system. And I'm sure, if I was willing to enter into a true argument with you, I could go and find a bunch of websites about how cruddy the American health care system is. I could find websites about how cruddy the Andoran health care system is. No system is perfect, mate. There's a lot of cutting-edge stuff happening in medicine up here, particularly at institutions like Sick Kids Hospital here in the big T.O. Ok, so maybe Alberta has some issues... :wink:

A word of advice for you, Corth (and a bunch of others, for that matter). You're a very smart guy, and I have all kinds of respect for you, but you can't let CNN tell you how the world is all the time. Or, at least, if you -are- gonna let them, then don't walk around acting like you know everything beyond the shadow of a doubt, because you really don't. Neither do I. I try to have some humility when I post stuff like this, and recognize that in the grand scheme of things, I really don't know all that much concretely. It's something that people here seem to forget an awful lot; you don't KNOW Saddam Hussein has WMDs, and if he does, you don't KNOW he's going to use them against the United States. If you pretend that you do KNOW things like that, then I pity you :P It's perfectly fine to say that it's likely that such is the case, that it's likely enough not to risk sitting around until you're bombed, but pretending that you're some kind of omniscient god, when in fact you're a dude that wastes hours of his day staring at multicoloured text whizzing across a screen, is just a wee bit arrogant, no?

This isn't meant to be an attack. Nothing I write is meant like that. And maybe what you do isn't intentional, or isn't meant to be interpreted the way I have. I just... well, I'm not even sure what my point is. Go me! :roll:

Oh, and by the way, even though not all webpages are terribly credible and every information agency on the planet has some sort of bias, I do salute you, Corth, for actually doing -research- on a topic before posting! Go you! :D
cichlids
Sojourner
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2003 2:29 pm

Postby cichlids » Fri Mar 07, 2003 2:11 am

Your about right on the fish, though there are south american and african varieties. The rift lakes used to be part of the ocean and the mountaisn rose and trapped them in those lakes. So, yes theve evolved from one species.

Heres a webpage i had with the tanks i used to have. Now i only have one tank (the big one of course!) cause water spills all over the floors is looked down upon by my fiance.

http://personal.boo.net/~lianos
Iaiken Toransier
Sojourner
Posts: 262
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Oakville, ON, CA
Contact:

Postby Iaiken Toransier » Fri Mar 07, 2003 2:45 am

cichlids wrote:Your about right on the fish, though there are south american and african varieties. The rift lakes used to be part of the ocean and the mountaisn rose and trapped them in those lakes. So, yes theve evolved from one species.

Heres a webpage i had with the tanks i used to have. Now i only have one tank (the big one of course!) cause water spills all over the floors is looked down upon by my fiance.

http://personal.boo.net/~lianos


I know, I used to keep them also, as well I wrote a biology term paper on the Tanganykan Biosphere. Mine were mouthbreeders (not that human way you sickos) sciaenochromis fryeri or "Blue Hap." 2 of them, though they never did produce any fry.

Sadly, my heater broke while I was away and the family didn't notice the temperature drop until they all bit the big one overnight...the fish, not my family. Now I am too broke to support a 300 liter tank, so it sits at home empty. :(
Corth
Sojourner
Posts: 6002
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 6:01 am
Location: NY, USA

Postby Corth » Fri Mar 07, 2003 3:11 am

With all due respect I don't really give a shit if anyone thinks I sound arrogant. :)

I don't know a lot of things, but I have a pretty good bullshit detector and I can think for myself. If people want to ignore my opinion, thats fine. Other people might respect it, I don't know. But I'm still going to express it. I don't really care if the tone of what I say turns anyone off. I honestly don't have much control over it.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



Goddamned slippery mage.
Urbuk
Sojourner
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 6:01 am

Postby Urbuk » Fri Mar 07, 2003 3:18 am

Which country alone in the Middle East has nuclear weapons?
Answer = Israel
Which country in the Middle East refuses to sign the nuclear
non-proliferation treaty and bars international inspection?
Answer = Israel
Which country in the Middle East seized sovereign territory of other
nations by military force and continues to occupy it in defiance of UN
Security Council Resolutions?
Answer = Israel
Which country in the Middle East created 762,000 refugees and refuses to
allow them to return to their homes, farms and businesses it confiscated?
Answer = Israel
Which country in the Middle East is in defiance of 69 UN Security Council
Resolutions and has been protected by U.S vetoes?
Answer = Israel
Which country confiscated almost 750,000 acres of land from the 1.5 million
acres comprising the West Bank & Gaza Strip?
Answer = Israel
Which country in the Middle East has killed 435 Palestinian school
children?
Answer = Israel
Which country in the Middle East has demolished 7000 homes?
Answer = Israel
Which country in the Middle East refuses to prosecute its soldiers who have
acknowledged executing prisoners of war?
Answer = Israel
Which country in the Middle East had a high ranking United Nations Diplomat
assassinated?
Answer = Israel
Which country on this planet has the second most powerful lobby force in
the United States, according to a recent Fortune Magazine survey of
Washington insiders?
Answer = Israel
Which country in the Middle East has the authorities forcefully preventing
Palestinian refugees the right to return to their homeland against the UN
Security Council resolution 194?
Answer = Israel
Which country in the Middle East has 90,000 Palestinian students been
deprived from attending school?
Answer = Israel
Which country in the Middle East has uprooted over 112,000 olive trees in
Palestinian land?
Answer = Israel
Which country in the Middle East has hit 165 ambulances, killed 4 ambulance
drivers and seriously injured 122?
Answer = Israel
Which country in the Middle East has killed 1,251 and injured 18,507 people
by the security forces and settlers?
Answer = Israel
Which country in the Middle East has receives over $5 Billion aid each year
from the U.S, more than the whole of Africa?
Answer = Israel
IS THE WORLD BLIND...?
If you have a heart then please forward this to as many people as you can.
Let the truth prevail.
Blung
Sojourner
Posts: 185
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 6:01 am
Location: San Diego, CA,

Postby Blung » Fri Mar 07, 2003 3:43 am

Very interesting topic. I enjoy reading Iaiken Toransier & Kerath response.


"Globalization, as defined by rich people like us, is a very nice thing...you are talking about the Internet, cell phones, computers, etc... This doesn't affect two-thirds of the people of the world." -Jimmy Carter-
Blung take no prisoner.
Gerad
Sojourner
Posts: 591
Joined: Sun May 13, 2001 5:01 am
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Contact:

Postby Gerad » Fri Mar 07, 2003 5:05 am

I didnt even look because I dont care, to read these kinds of things anymore, but I have the burning desire to climb to the highest roof in the world and scream through a thousand sets of stage speakers,

HEY! IDIOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THE REASON THE USA AND UN HAS NUKES AND IRAQ CANT IS BECAUSE SADDAM HUSSEIN IS AN INSANE TERRORIST DICTATOR WHO USES HORRIBLE BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS ON HIS OWN PEOPLE AND CANNOT BE TRUSTED WITH A CAP GUN LET ALONE A BOMB THAT CAN SINK A SMALL ISLAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


had to get that off my chest.

-gerad
<I>When a man lies, he murders some part of the world
These are the pale deaths, which men miscall their lives
All this I cannot bear to witness any longer
Cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home?</I>
Xisiqomelir
Sojourner
Posts: 870
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2002 5:01 am
Location: Ixarkon
Contact:

Postby Xisiqomelir » Fri Mar 07, 2003 5:43 am

Urbuk wrote:A heap of festering rubbish


Hey, Nazi, do us all a favour and go forward your ravings to the people of similiar psychotic racist inclinations.
Thus spake Shevarash: "Invokers are not going to be removed"



Gura: ..btw, being a dick is my god given right as an evil.
Corth
Sojourner
Posts: 6002
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 6:01 am
Location: NY, USA

Postby Corth » Fri Mar 07, 2003 6:52 am

The real question should be: Which tiny democratic country in the middle east (oh yeah, theres only one) has been fighting since the very day it came into existance, chooses to defend itself and its soverignty from its hostile neighbors despite their whining and seething in the UN, and who in fact, fought off two 'multilateral' coalitions of Arab governments (in 1967 and 1973) which resulted in obtaining some territory which by all rights they should keep as punishment, but have offered to return 95% of, only to have such offer declined?.
Last edited by Corth on Fri Mar 07, 2003 7:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



Goddamned slippery mage.
Mplor
Sojourner
Posts: 455
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Phoenix

Postby Mplor » Fri Mar 07, 2003 7:14 am

What I still don't get is how violations of "17 separate U.N. resolutions" can be used to justify a war not sanctioned by the UN security council. Either the UN is relevant or it's not. Please, help me to understand this line of reasoning.

Mp

p.s. <B Mexican Pizza. mmmmmmmmmm
Corth
Sojourner
Posts: 6002
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 6:01 am
Location: NY, USA

Postby Corth » Fri Mar 07, 2003 7:21 am

Thats what we're going to find out Mplor.

The war is justified for its own reasons. UN approval (majority of votes from among others, concerned parties such as cameroon, mexico, angola, guinea, and chile) isn't going to add any justification one way or the other. Either the war is justified, or it isnt. What we are going to find out is whether the UN will be at all relevent. My theory is that Bush's policy is to give the UN enough rope to hang itself, which I'm overjoyed about.

Corth
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



Goddamned slippery mage.
Urbuk
Sojourner
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 6:01 am

Postby Urbuk » Fri Mar 07, 2003 7:28 am

Xisiqomelir wrote:
Urbuk wrote:A heap of festering rubbish


Hey, Nazi, do us all a favour and go forward your ravings to the people of similiar psychotic racist inclinations.


A typical response from someone who is racist hiding behind the so-called "zionism" and calling others of different opinion anti-semitic.
Corth
Sojourner
Posts: 6002
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 6:01 am
Location: NY, USA

Postby Corth » Fri Mar 07, 2003 7:31 am

Urbuk,

I dont know your motives, and I am not prepared to say that you are an anti-semite. You are, however, extraordinarily stupid. :)

Now that your not cut and pasting, its apparent that you cant write even a single comprehensible sentence. Your creativity can be measured by the amount of hits you get on google when you search for "which country in the middle east". Yeah, hundreds of idiots like yourself have been cut and pasting the same tired old crap. Lets try and make a cogent argument in our own words next time, mkay?
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



Goddamned slippery mage.
Gerad
Sojourner
Posts: 591
Joined: Sun May 13, 2001 5:01 am
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Contact:

Postby Gerad » Fri Mar 07, 2003 7:56 am

I have no problem with the jewish faith, in fact I rather like it, and were they soliciting members I might even be one (god without all that jesus stuff? im in!), but my point is, I dont get why whenever anyone says something about israel that might be taken in a negative light (easy to do with all this gulf war stuff going around), that person is instantly branded 'anti-semetic'... Im not sure it really has anything to do with the jewish people as a whole, if all your doing is talking about the actions of their government...

...we seem to see alot of this. We hear it every time a black man is shot by a white cop, or a white woman disappears in a bad neighborhood...

What I'm saying is that I dont think its o.k. on any front, or from either side...

-gerad
<I>When a man lies, he murders some part of the world

These are the pale deaths, which men miscall their lives

All this I cannot bear to witness any longer

Cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home?</I>
Urbuk
Sojourner
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 6:01 am

Postby Urbuk » Fri Mar 07, 2003 8:00 am

Corth wrote:Urbuk,

I dont know your motives, and I am not prepared to say that you are an anti-semite. You are, however, extraordinarily stupid. :)

Now that your not cut and pasting, its apparent that you cant write even a single comprehensible sentence. Your creativity can be measured by the amount of hits you get on google when you search for "which country in the middle east". Yeah, hundreds of idiots like yourself have been cut and pasting the same tired old crap. Lets try and make a cogent argument in our own words next time, mkay?


Ah. It's much easier to dismiss an opinion by attacking the person instead of handling the truth as it is eh? Guess it takes a bigger "idiot" to dismiss an "idiotic" post :lol:
Corth
Sojourner
Posts: 6002
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 6:01 am
Location: NY, USA

Postby Corth » Fri Mar 07, 2003 8:08 am

Actually, I already dismissed the 'truth' of your opinion a few posts above. Do I need to quote myself? OK!

corth wrote:The real question should be: Which tiny democratic country in the middle east (oh yeah, theres only one) has been fighting since the very day it came into existance, chooses to defend itself and its soverignty from its hostile neighbors despite their whining and seething in the UN, and who in fact, fought off two 'multilateral' coalitions of Arab governments (in 1967 and 1973) which resulted in obtaining some territory which by all rights they should keep as punishment, but have offered to return 95% of, only to have such offer declined?


Basically, the propaganda you cut and pasted takes a lot of things out of context, mixes in some half-truths and assumptions, and leaves any positives out. That is your 'truth'.

Gerad,

I completely agree. hurling labels at people without due consideration is not productive. There are genuine racists, homophobes, and anti-semites out there. Stretching the definition of these terms to include people trying to make an honest (though often stupid) point does a favor to the real assholes out there.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



Goddamned slippery mage.
Xisiqomelir
Sojourner
Posts: 870
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2002 5:01 am
Location: Ixarkon
Contact:

Postby Xisiqomelir » Fri Mar 07, 2003 9:52 am

Corth wrote:Urbuk,

I dont know your motives, and I am not prepared to say that you are an anti-semite.


Corth,

unlike you I am absolutely ready to do exactly that. I think most people would agree that I try to be civil as possible on this board, but Urbuk's hatred and venomous invective is plain for all to see.

For Urbuk, I am pleased to award you this:

Image

Now run off and finish memorizing your favourite books. Daddy Adolf is waiting.
Thus spake Shevarash: "Invokers are not going to be removed"



Gura: ..btw, being a dick is my god given right as an evil.
fildur
Sojourner
Posts: 143
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2001 6:01 am
Location: rinkeby

Postby fildur » Fri Mar 07, 2003 12:02 pm

Xisiqomelir wrote:unlike you I am absolutely ready to do exactly that. I think most people would agree that I try to be civil as possible on this board, but Urbuk's hatred and venomous invective is plain for all to see.

whos workin to get banned, whos calling names? that there are ppl that dont agree on the israel topic isnt a reason to ban that someone calls ppl with different opinions nazi is more a reason imho.

ye arent democratic given the single fact that you are a jew, you arent anti-semitic or nazi given the single fact that you are opposed to israeli crimes, not even if you start to compare israeli crimes with iraqi ones.

/fil
Xisiqomelir
Sojourner
Posts: 870
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2002 5:01 am
Location: Ixarkon
Contact:

Postby Xisiqomelir » Fri Mar 07, 2003 1:19 pm

Fildur,

I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but Nazism, Holocaust denial and racist hate writing are all crimes, and hence are disallowed on this board, as per the rules stated by the gods.

Certainly, Nazis, Holocaust deniers and racists have the right to free self-expression, but this is a private forum and not a public one, and as such there are rules for what is and is not acceptable.
Thus spake Shevarash: "Invokers are not going to be removed"



Gura: ..btw, being a dick is my god given right as an evil.
fildur
Sojourner
Posts: 143
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2001 6:01 am
Location: rinkeby

Postby fildur » Fri Mar 07, 2003 1:26 pm

Xisiqomelir wrote:Fildur,

I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but Nazism, Holocaust denial and racist hate writing are all crimes, and hence are disallowed on this board, as per the rules stated by the gods.


im well aware of that, still, whos been writing nazism, holocaust denial or racist postings? you point the finger randomly in space, whers the nazi. being opposed to zionism is not in any way hatred or nazism./fil
Mikayla
Sojourner
Posts: 311
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2002 5:01 am
Location: orange, tx, USA
Contact:

Postby Mikayla » Fri Mar 07, 2003 1:48 pm

those of you who think all wmd are the same, sorry but a nuke is a nuke, it only produces so much radiation and area of effect, however, biological weapons have no such limitation. biological weapons do have the chance to change and mutate making them hard to find a cure. then the tendency to go global and spread fast. so you tell me which are worst? and in the hands of a lunitic like so damn insane i know which is worst.
Her Royal Bitchness Eye Aeturnum
Ashiwi
Sojourner
Posts: 4161
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 5:01 am

Postby Ashiwi » Fri Mar 07, 2003 2:06 pm

Stupid from one side, nazi from another...

Not a very intellectual way to keep a debate going. It's nice to indulge occasionally but when the topic's locked you people will still fail to see the role you played in shutting it down.
cichlids
Sojourner
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2003 2:29 pm

Postby cichlids » Fri Mar 07, 2003 2:53 pm

I dont see why disagreeing with Isreal makes you anti semetic or pro-hitler or not accept the Holocost.
There are many people of the Jewish faith that support a free Palestine.
Personally I dont see why, as reparations for the horrors committed to Jews by the GERMANS, the were granted a county 1000 miles away in Palestine. IF anything I think it would have been better to make an Isreal in Bavaria. The case about being there 1000s of years ago makes no sense. Im from Greece, so with that logic, my country could claim the whole medditeranean up to india.
Kerath
Sojourner
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Thornhill, Ontario, Canada
Contact:

Postby Kerath » Fri Mar 07, 2003 3:12 pm

Mikayla wrote:those of you who think all wmd are the same, sorry but a nuke is a nuke, it only produces so much radiation and area of effect, however, biological weapons have no such limitation. biological weapons do have the chance to change and mutate making them hard to find a cure. then the tendency to go global and spread fast. so you tell me which are worst? and in the hands of a lunitic like so damn insane i know which is worst.


I think you'll find that it's actually easier to cure someone who's been infected with anthrax or has been inflicted with botulinum toxin than it is to try and save someone who's absorbed 1000 rems worth of radiation. :roll: Only produces so much radiation in an area of effect? What are we talking about here, precisely? -Maybe- if they were using smaller-scale, fission bombs like those employed in WWII, this -might- be true; though regions of Japan are still suffering the aftermath of even those far smaller bombs. However, for years now, people have been employing the far more destructive hydrogen bomb, which uses fusion rather than fission. I suppose you think firestorms, radioactive silt, dust clouds obscuring sunlight, disrupted ozone levels allowing heightened UV to enter the troposphere, are all a walk in the park compared to an engineered virus? I'm not trying to shoot holes in what you said; biological weapons are very, very frightening, and one type you forgot to mention is the kind that can be employed against crops, causing widespread famine. BUT, to dismiss nuclear bombs the way you did, as a trivial thing not worth worrying about, scares the pants off me.

And yes, I -do- know that botulinum toxin is, pound for pound, the most lethal poison known to mankind. It coats the presynaptic knob of your neurons and prevents neurotransmitters from crossing from one cell to another, thus ceasing all EPSP's. :P But I still think being in the middle of an H-bomb detonation is, overall, more detrimental to your health. Ultimately, firing a nuclear weapon, anywhere in the world, is pissing in your own pool, which is why the things are so damned stupid; but I also recognize that the chance of complete disarmament, -even if- the US goes along with it, is slim.
Mikayla
Sojourner
Posts: 311
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2002 5:01 am
Location: orange, tx, USA
Contact:

Postby Mikayla » Fri Mar 07, 2003 3:45 pm

kerath where i live i aint worried about nukes, living middle now where nukes not a everyday worry, now viruses are another thing being trasmitted by almost any living creature. as for a nuclear winterthat is going to be an awful lot of weapons being used for that to happen where as you only need a small fraction of a virus released to cause same effect or worst.
Her Royal Bitchness Eye Aeturnum
thanuk
Sojourner
Posts: 1902
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 5:01 am
Contact:

Postby thanuk » Fri Mar 07, 2003 4:53 pm

Okay lets get a few things straight.

All the displaced jews got stuffed into israel by the Alliance after ww2, because they had nowhere to go. The arabs didnt agree to it, they had it forced on them, and the alliance (including all the european countries, so dont gimme that "look what america did" bullshit) said tough shit.

Since then, Israel has been under constant attack, both formally by a government and informally by terrorists and guerilla organizations, without a stop. Now, because if israel didn't exist, there would be no fighting, its common to blame Israel for this problem, even though they have been on the defensive most of the time. Peace is more important than justice to most of the world.

Mplor - The reason the resolutions matter is because it shows that the world has the desire to see saddam disarmed, even though they dont have the guts to carry it out. It also shows that Saddam couldn't care less about that precious "world opinion" superpower, which isn't really a superpower btw, because the opinion of the world always seems to be "lets not do anything and see what happens." To be a superpower, you have to have a method to accomplish your goals, not just goals in and of themselves. The UN is valid if it will make good on its promises, which amounts to enforcing its resolutions. Its resolutions have said that saddam has to disarm, if it enforces this, then it is valid. If it continues to say that saddam should disarm, and then do nothing about it but talk, then it is not valid. Basically the UN said saddam you have to disarm or else we will force you to. Saddam sez "yeah, make me!" UN can say yes and give credence to its words, or it can get called on its bluff and ascend into uselessness. The U.S. is going to follow up on the UN resolutions that they helped create, because when the U.S. says things we aren't messing around. Whats left to determine is whether the rest of the UN really means what they say, or if they just talk for the sake of talking. After NATO article V, its pretty obvious that most of the "european powers" just talk for the sake of it, but we will see.

Oh and btw, whoever said it, do you realize just how many people 90% of the world population is? I don't think that you do...
Mysrel tells you 'have my babies'

You tell Mysrel 'u want me to be ur baby daddy?'

Mysrel tells you 'daddy? No, I think you have the terminology wrong'

You tell Mysrel 'comeon now we both know i would be the top'

Mysrel tells you 'can be where ever you want to be, yer still getting ****** like a drunken cheerleader'
Drakkoth
Sojourner
Posts: 92
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2002 5:01 am
Location: ...

Postby Drakkoth » Fri Mar 07, 2003 6:31 pm

Corth wrote:If people want to ignore my opinion, thats fine. Other people might respect it, I don't know.


Keep your head up, player. I, for one, respect your opinion. :) (Although, on this board, having me on your side usually does more harm than good.)
Tasan
Sojourner
Posts: 1710
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Fridley, Mn USA
Contact:

Postby Tasan » Fri Mar 07, 2003 8:46 pm

Mikayla wrote:kerath where i live i aint worried about nukes, living middle now where nukes not a everyday worry, now viruses are another thing being trasmitted by almost any living creature.


No offense Mikayla, but you are grossly misinformed.

In high school I wrote a paper that won a contest in biology class. The paper was on the proliferation of biological weapons, and the scientists that helped create them. The main scientist had defected from the USSR, and come to this country to escape the brutish regime that dictated their studies. He wasn't the only scientist to run to other countries either. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that many of Iraq's discoveries in those areas are not their own.

Biological weapons while extremely dangerous, are simply not as destructive to a population as a nuclear weapon. Saying that a "virus" could be spread by all living creatures, leading to the belief that a single bomb could infact infect a huge population is wrong. Most of the agents used commonly are either A) not communicable, or B) kill extremely quickly, and thus don't allow for transmission. One of the most limiting factors of biological weapons is controlling where they actually are dropped. A bomb exploded above a city very likely will have it's effects drift many many miles downwind. While this may not be much of a problem over an urban sprawl, it does lessen the chances of contraction of whatever is carried by the weapon. Anthrax has always been the most talked about possible weapon. It can be refined down to a powder which disappears in the air, and can travel many many miles downwind. However, anthrax will not affect everyone in the path of the cloud, it is not transmittable to other people once it has infected a person, and it is not even entirely leathal.

While antrax isn't the most deadly form of such a weapon, the limitations are visible. During the 1960's, the USSR developed a new strain of ebola, quickly named for the scientist it killed. It was much more deadly(killing within 48 hours), and it was contagious. However, it was quickly found to be an ineffective method due to control. There was a high degree of error for controlling who and how many would be affected.

All in all the use of biological/chemical weapons is just not as effective as a nuclear strike. There will always be something that survives a biological or chemical attack, and the use of such weapons on the whole will not kill nearly as many people.

The cold war arms race that created the US and USSR stockpiles of nuclear weapons was a catalyst for some of the greatest advances in destructive theory. Over the span of 35 some years, bombs went from a measly 23 kiloton yield(23,000 lbs of dynamite) to over 45 megatons.

The first H-bomb the US ever tested completely destroyed a small island, and in the aftermath, 2 new elements were discovered.

Only a few years later, a test bomb was dropped 100 miles from a japanese fishing boat, whereupon all 23 crew members became sick within 2 weeks.

Mikayla wrote:as for a nuclear winterthat is going to be an awful lot of weapons being used for that to happen where as you only need a small fraction of a virus released to cause same effect or worst.


Actually, several single volcano eruptions have caused massive weather fluctuations for months afterwards. The idea that many many nuclear weapons would be needed to cause a nuclear winter is extremly naive. With the size and power of current weapons, I would imagine only a handful would cause a global effect, even if not actually causing the theorized winter.

In any case, any WMD is going to kill, regardless of where or when or how it is used. But as evolution and nature have proven, there is no stopping life by biological means. Something will always survive.

Twinshadow
Danahg tells you 'yeah, luckily i kept most of it in my mouth and nasal membranes, ugh'

Dlur group-says 'I have a dead horse that I'm dragging down the shaft with my 4 corpses. Anyone want to help me beat it?'

Calladuran: There are other games to play if you want to play with yourself.
Mikayla
Sojourner
Posts: 311
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2002 5:01 am
Location: orange, tx, USA
Contact:

Postby Mikayla » Fri Mar 07, 2003 10:14 pm

tasan all maybe true. still going to argue the fact that i ph33r bilogical weapons more then nukes. the chance that a biological can mutate and change is there, you know the chaos factor.
Her Royal Bitchness Eye Aeturnum
Urbuk
Sojourner
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 6:01 am

Postby Urbuk » Sat Mar 08, 2003 1:07 am

I have to agree with fildur on this. To have a different opinion againts Israel is considered racist? Give me a break. There's always two sides of a coin in every event that's happening in the world. Just because I choose to bring the "other side" of the coin to this forum, doesn't automatically labelled me as a racist or anti-semitic.

You on the other hand Xisiqomelir, seems to me like a "fanatic" follower, unwilling to "negotiate" or open your mind to other dissimilar opinions. In this instance, I do respect Corth for at least giving me facts that i personally considered as an opinion which differs from my own. Which is good, and certainly opened my mind to other possibilities (even though I overlooked at first with all the "noise" surrounding my post, which I apologize for that). Indiscriminately proposing others to ban people of different opinions seems kinda "childish" in my opinion.

Just because the Singapore government doesn't allow you to freely express your opinion in your own country, doesn't mean that the rules apply to other parts of the world. :D

Return to “S3 General Discussion Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests