Turn me on...

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Iaiken Toransier
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Turn me on...

Postby Iaiken Toransier » Wed Apr 09, 2003 5:25 pm

CNN: The War Show

Staring: George Bush Jr.
Tony Blair
Walter Rogers
Ryan Chilcolte
The US Armed Forces
The British Marines
Also Featuring:
Iraqi Token Resistance
On today's episode:
Ring Around the Baghdad

We'll be treat to the awesome power and speed of the US armored devisions followed by fireworks tonight courtousy the USAF. All this and more on todays highest rated reality series.

(please note that I am a sarcastic bastard)

No news coverage in the history of mankind can even compare to the way in which embedded journalism has affected public oppinion by possessing ENORMOUS content and first hand looks.

What's missing? Context? What does it all mean?

I'm not even going to go into FOX's coverage of the war(it was expected), but I actually used to respect CNN for it's impartial coverage of past conflicts and world events. However, in this case it has been more like a reality show minus the reality of it all. Even briefings by military officials show this same video in repetition to the days events already covered live and played many times after on several channels.

Civilian casualties, the US administration ducks the question most vehemently, and when an ABC reporter cornered Brigadier General Vince Brooks during a breifing, he responted by ignoring him with a call of "next question."

Four 2000lb bombs dropped on a cafe where Saddam Hussien was supposed to meet his sons. No, they don't weigh a combined 4 tons, instead possessing the equivalent explosive power of 8000lbs of TNT in the form of stabalized nitro glycerine called cordite. End result being the release of 4.184 GigaJoules of energy or 4,184,000,000 Joules over a timespan measured in less that 1/1000th of a second.

Due to the nature of Cordite or Octogen, little of this energy is wasted on heat and the result is a blast with approximately 70% more concussive force, almost enough to send a 200lb man 46,488,888 meters up against gravity(take that Saddam). How much collateral damage do you think would be inflicted? Even I have no conception of the physical power of these weapons as I've never actually been witness to thier power being brought to bare.

More disturbing is CBC footage of M1A2 ABRAMS tanks opening fire on buildings potentially containing iraqi fighters in an excessive display of force.

Likely we'll never know just how many civilians actually during and after this conflict, but it's something to think about. Concidering it's the only part they don't show on TV.

So one last question, if CNN brodcasting is covering the war in iraq almost exclusively, with some meantion of the economy, what is happening in the US that they are not showing you?

I personally hope that the conflict can be brought to a close quickly and cleanly, while I'll save my oppinion on a US supervised Iraq for another day.
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Postby Ashiwi » Wed Apr 09, 2003 5:47 pm

Sigh. I'll go over this with you ONE MORE TIME. I don't know which U.S. news station YOU were watching, but every time I turned on the TV they were talking about civilian casualties. As much as you continue to want to believe our government is forcing news stations to suppress this news, it's just not true. I don't for a moment believe that we have a full count of civilian casualties, so of course those numbers haven't been released yet. Duh?
cichlids
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Postby cichlids » Wed Apr 09, 2003 6:05 pm

Where are these pictures on US media?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/pa ... teid=50143
Ashiwi
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Postby Ashiwi » Wed Apr 09, 2003 6:33 pm

Where are these pictures on US media?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/pa ... teid=50143



http://www.msnbc.com/news/846463.asp

Might I suggest the April 7th set of pictures, number 8. Please note this is MSNBC.

Next?
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Postby Snurgt » Wed Apr 09, 2003 7:59 pm

pwn
Iaiken Toransier
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Postby Iaiken Toransier » Wed Apr 09, 2003 9:07 pm

I do beleive that I made clear that I was commenting on CNN "the most trusted name in news" which has shown almost non-stop coverage from thier embedded journalists since the beginning of the war.

Might I add to the fact that independant news correspondents are not being allowed into the country anymore? Such as CBC, NBC, ABC and a growing list of non-embedded news agencies stranded at the border. Only press with an "Embedded" pass can actually get into the country anymore. BBC has actual freedom of movement and roam about looking for stories to cover, but CNN's journalists must stay with thier designated infantry group.

So my question is to the value of embedded journalism not the quantity of what they show. Ashiwi, MSNBC is a unilateral news group, and these seem to be the only agencies giving a broad and ballanced look at the war in iraq.

Since the attack on the Palestine Hotel (a well known and documented media headquarters) and the Al Jaezera office more than half of the unilateral journalists have left the country. From the footage I've seen from the roof, parking lot and immediate vicinity of the hotel, there was no small arms fire from the ground level, just a deafening explosion as the shell rocked the middle floors.

As for the media bans on people (dixie chicks especially) who speak out strongly against the war in the US, I put it to you this way, "freedom of speech" or "the truth as we tell it to you" you decide.

Edit:

As for the BS of liberation, what about the Congo? The civil war there is almost forgotten to the front page, and yet the Red Cross recent figures claim that the civil war there has cost the lives of 3.3million people over the last 4 years and I've as much hope the current cease fire as I do for peace in the Gaza strip.

The current state of Africa is the result of 120+ years of British/French/German imposed democracy, and how many of those nations are truly democratic? Yet the American gov't thinks that they can somehow imtroduce democracy to the middle east, haven't we already heard this story before?

I abhore imperialism, and yet in that seems to lay the only answer to the problem of non democratic regimes. Palestine, Serbia, Congo, the U.N. hasn't been able to truely affect a change in any of these nations during my lifetime thus far due to differences of religion, race or leadership.

Only demonstration I've seen this year is that world government now has no real power, vote all they want, people will still fight and kill for thier wants and beliefs. Just like the unilateral movements of the US and Britain.
Arilin Nydelahar
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Wed Apr 09, 2003 9:41 pm

Iaiken Toransier wrote:I do beleive that I made clear that I was commenting on CNN "the most trusted name in news" which has shown almost non-stop coverage from thier embedded journalists since the beginning of the war.

Might I add to the fact that independant news correspondents are not being allowed into the country anymore? Such as CBC, NBC, ABC and a growing list of non-embedded news agencies stranded at the border. Only press with an "Embedded" pass can actually get into the country anymore. BBC has actual freedom of movement and roam about looking for stories to cover, but CNN's journalists must stay with thier designated infantry group.

So my question is to the value of embedded journalism not the quantity of what they show. Ashiwi, MSNBC is a unilateral news group, and these seem to be the only agencies giving a broad and ballanced look at the war in iraq.

Since the attack on the Palestine Hotel (a well known and documented media headquarters) and the Al Jaezera office more than half of the unilateral journalists have left the country. From the footage I've seen from the roof, parking lot and immediate vicinity of the hotel, there was no small arms fire from the ground level, just a deafening explosion as the shell rocked the middle floors.

As for the media bans on people (dixie chicks especially) who speak out strongly against the war in the US, I put it to you this way, "freedom of speech" or "the truth as we tell it to you" you decide.

Edit:

As for the BS of liberation, what about the Congo? The civil war there is almost forgotten to the front page, and yet the Red Cross recent figures claim that the civil war there has cost the lives of 3.3million people over the last 4 years and I've as much hope the current cease fire as I do for peace in the Gaza strip.

The current state of Africa is the result of 120+ years of British/French/German imposed democracy, and how many of those nations are truly democratic? Yet the American gov't thinks that they can somehow imtroduce democracy to the middle east, haven't we already heard this story before?

I abhore imperialism, and yet in that seems to lay the only answer to the problem of non democratic regimes. Palestine, Serbia, Congo, the U.N. hasn't been able to truely affect a change in any of these nations during my lifetime thus far due to differences of religion, race or leadership.

Only demonstration I've seen this year is that world government now has no real power, vote all they want, people will still fight and kill for thier wants and beliefs. Just like the unilateral movements of the US and Britain.


I read about half the tripe you just posted, and I got mightily bored after that half. But, hey, I got a suggestion.

Leave. Just, go. Didn't you quit? Tod left, so that's one less thing for you, what else would make you quit, and i'll accomidate you!
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Postby Davester » Wed Apr 09, 2003 10:48 pm

Iaiken Toransier wrote:Since the attack on the Palestine Hotel (a well known and documented media headquarters) and the Al Jaezera office more than half of the unilateral journalists have left the country. From the footage I've seen from the roof, parking lot and immediate vicinity of the hotel, there was no small arms fire from the ground level, just a deafening explosion as the shell rocked the middle floors.


<derail>
Newsflash dumbass... the reason the M1A1's fired on this building is because, they were taking rounds all freakin day...and guess what a photographer's flashbulb looks like? fire flash from the muzzle of a weapon. Guess what people on rooftops do? they act as targeters for artillery shells. How is the army supposed to know these things? Do you think they should have gotten out and asked if they were reporters or if they were spotters for mortars?? Sorry those civilian reporters got killed, but if they would have been using some common F'n sense rather than trying to get a story, or take pictures of combat action, maybe they'd still be alive...
</derail>
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Iaiken Toransier
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Postby Iaiken Toransier » Wed Apr 09, 2003 11:25 pm

<derail>
Newsflash dumbass... the reason the M1A1's fired on this building is because, they were taking rounds all freakin day...and guess what a photographer's flashbulb looks like? fire flash from the muzzle of a weapon. Guess what people on rooftops do? they act as targeters for artillery shells. How is the army supposed to know these things? Do you think they should have gotten out and asked if they were reporters or if they were spotters for mortars?? Sorry those civilian reporters got killed, but if they would have been using some common F'n sense rather than trying to get a story, or take pictures of combat action, maybe they'd still be alive...
</derail>[/quote]

Sorry to sound like they were targeted, because I know they weren't the 'fog of war' blurs lines like that, you just react. However, arabic media sees it as such, in a world where people who routinely lose thier positions even lives for disagreeing with the views they are supposed to show, this seems to be the genral impression. There is an ENORMOUS credability gap between the US and the Arab world, and they may be cheering now, but when they wake up one day and realize they are again under the thumb of a foriegn power. (remember British imperialism? No? They do.)

Nor am I saying that the US isn't the one to implement democracy in Iraq, hell, I already gave examples how how the UN failed tragically on three separate occasions during my cognative life...
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Postby Zen » Thu Apr 10, 2003 12:36 am

You are on to us Iaiken, we give up. There's no fooling you. It's clear to see that the United States is a bunch of imperialist war mongers. We've been doing things all wrong however, and we should have learned our lesson. We're so wrong to go overseas and pick on little Iraq, clearly that's not the best target for expanding our imperialist goals. We should do what every other imperialist state has done in the past, because it's worked and worked well: Conquer your neighbors first.

The United States doubtless needs to conquer Mexico and Canada if it ever hope to succeed at world domination.

Sorry, but I don't buy it.

-Llandrien
Iaiken Toransier
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Postby Iaiken Toransier » Thu Apr 10, 2003 2:49 am

Zen wrote:You are on to us Iaiken, we give up. There's no fooling you. It's clear to see that the United States is a bunch of imperialist war mongers. We've been doing things all wrong however, and we should have learned our lesson. We're so wrong to go overseas and pick on little Iraq, clearly that's not the best target for expanding our imperialist goals. We should do what every other imperialist state has done in the past, because it's worked and worked well: Conquer your neighbors first.

The United States doubtless needs to conquer Mexico and Canada if it ever hope to succeed at world domination.

Sorry, but I don't buy it.

-Llandrien


Don't get me wrong Llandrien, I'll admit that war is as often a necessary evil as it is a catostrophic mistake, but I don't understand the US view on the situation and trying to impose a democracy upon a nation. I mean, it might not be terribly difficult if Iraqi's weren't of three differing major religeons, and eleven different tribes, many of whom fight amongst each other. Not to meantion the islamic view of western values... It's going to be a long and difficult road with other arabic nations so close by.
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Postby Ashiwi » Thu Apr 10, 2003 5:13 am

Dear gods. You must think our government is beyond clueless. You seem to think all citizens of the US are clueless, as well. How in the world did you buy into this total view of us? We already know what we look like for going over to Iraq in the first place. You really think we're going to try to force our beliefs of government on a people it wouldn't work for? The harder we force the people of Iraq the greater the backlash is going to be, not just from the people of Iraq, but from the entire world.

You're right, you DON'T understand the US view on the situation. Get your head out of the scandal sites and stop spilling so much of the tripe your Birkenstock, anti-establishment, nervous-about-big-brother friends keep feeding you.

I'm not saying the US isn't going to have their fingers heavily into the affairs of Iraq for a good, long time, there's a rather hefty investment involved now. The government of Iraq is going to have to reflect the people of Iraq, however, and the governance of the United States would NOT be acceptable by them. Contrary to your beliefs, we're well aware of this.
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Postby Kossuth » Thu Apr 10, 2003 4:17 pm

Hey, lay off the Birkenstocks. They're comfy!

I'm all for the war, but I love my Birks. :D
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Postby moritheil » Sat Apr 12, 2003 7:49 pm

Kossuth arrives to feed on the flames! ;)
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Postby Izzemassix » Tue Apr 15, 2003 8:15 am

Why even post a useless offensive post like this?

I feel stupider after reading this thread.
A flash of pain comes over your brain,as something starts draining your energies.

Your brain is drawn out with a final slurp,as you feel yourself falling into the cold sleep of death...

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