they left for uber twink mud, Ssissu. that's where all the e

Archive of the Sojourn3 General Discussion Forum.
idrathernotsay
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they left for uber twink mud, Ssissu. that's where all the e

Postby idrathernotsay » Sun Jun 29, 2003 1:12 pm

they left for uber twink mud, Ssissu. that's where all the evils have gone, ooooooh.
heh, seen you over there on that other mud too muma, noone there cares for your banter on ooc so it is my suspision you returned to soj where people entertain you
yeah, alot of us have started playing anouther game, you can only do the same thing so many times b4 it becomes boring, dont try acting all high and mighty or come off acting like we commited some act of treason or something
why am i playing there?
several reasons, gung ho admin staff who believe the rules are of paramount importance, above everything else, sure we have rules for a reason and most of them are based on good sound logic, even still noone wants to be supervised and nit picked, thats not fun and i play these games to have fun.
miax stepping down as the front man, i like miax and i dont care whut anyone has to say he was always straight with me, shevy is one seriously cool dude but i think hes prolly too laid back to step up, cyric, who knows what hes does, he very well could be behind the scenes busting his butt but hes rarely seen, that leaves kia, im not even sure why kia is here except maybe he digs the admin thing, but it is my opinion he is an asshole and has just the kind of dominating personality to step up and decide to be the new soj big shot
the lag, its gone now but it sucked while it was here and made play unpleasant at best
something differnt, i listen to different muisic i watch a variety of tv and i enjoy several different games, i was becoming bored with soj, it happens
now, you can think whatever you want about what i had to say but thats the way i see it, i love soj and have logged countless hours playing it, ill prolly never leave, not completely
evil pbase has always been for crap and its always going to be for crap if soj insists on remaining ridgid, im sure the great majority of you arent going to think theres any merit in what i say but what about the rest of you, the ones who are gone, there are so many other muds out there, alot of them now with kick ass graffix instead of script
now, you can watch people go, you can hope new people come, but i think most of you would agree that no ammount of newbies can make up for the loss of the oldschoolers, without people who already play the game to its fullest potential i think very few newbies are going to stick around, if there wasnt already people here, people who had everything under control, people to help with things like cring or there to offer guildence and tutoring i never would have stuck around, that was 7 years ago
oooo, where did everyone go? i think the better question would be why did eveyone go?
there are lots of little differences and lots of similarities between the two muds i play, ive tryed alot of different muds, i play 2
all in all tho there are 2 things i think are being done very right somewhere else
!grouping restrictions, im aloud to play my char any way i want, alot of you are prolly thinking, but i dont want to group with evils, or i dont want to group with goodies, so dont, its pretty simple, if you want to rp like that to me its only cooler
!admin staff, they have an active staff that deals with things as they need to deal with things, players for the most part are going to keep themselves and others in check without need of some busy body whos main job is to watch what everyone else does. it is my opinion that the only people who would make good admin wouldnt want the job. i know this is an extreme analogy but its alot like asking everyone ok, whos ready to shoot someone? we need someone to be in charge of the gun, im sorry but that volunteer should be the last one to get to hold the gun. maybe without admin staff somone is gunna get away with botting or some other minor little rule infrection because noone is looking, so what? its not realy that bigga deal, really it isnt
one other little thing i personally dont like alot of times but i have to admit its a better way, when the game reboots you are back to the inn or your guild or wherever it was you last camped, reboot in 2 mins, quick, everyone gather and be ready so we are here if maybe the invasion loaded, go right ahead, it isnt gunna do you any good
watch the playerbase dwindle, be so sure that the game is fine the way it is, or maybe talk to people and make some changes, cater to the pbase
man, soj is such a great game, such a great game.....
dont try and make those of us who are playing somewhere else out to be some kind of traitor or something, they are only games
blow whut i have to say off or take it to heart and think about it, im only telling you the way i see things
one more thing id like to say, the bbs is a good thing but it hardly represents the player base as a whole, some of us never post here and others talk way too much
Mazok
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Postby Mazok » Sun Jun 29, 2003 3:41 pm

I think everyone is entitled to their opinion. Getting mad that people are trying a new mud wheather its easier or not isnt any casue for concern. It is only a game. The eliteism in this mud is completely rediculous. Are you trying to say that because different people arnt playing sojourn that they arnt good enough players to play on a "real" mud? Or are you just angry that quit a few people are leaving and attendance is down?
Some people dont want to be hard core roleplayers and they dont have to be. It is not that big of a deal. that's why there is chocolate and vanilla. I agree with the person who wrote this post all except the Muma comment cause I like her allot. :)
-Maz
Turxx
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Postby Turxx » Sun Jun 29, 2003 4:58 pm

heh, pretty much
ill tell you anouther common theme i hear from old schoolers, they miss the old code
i think something needs to be done to keep players and to lure back people who have left, feeling they have beat the game, or done all there is to be done here, that i think more then anything means new zones, new challenges, things that are different and not rewrites, few people i talk to are impressed by rewrites
now i dont know but ive been around a long time and ive talked to alot of different people and anouther common theme is cyric is more then slow to get to things other people need him for in their zone writing and the lack of olc, ive used olc and i couldnt imagine writing a zone without it
im sure some of you prolly dont want to hear this but ive never been one to tell people whut they want to hear, yes men are definatly cool to have but like the game, they are fake, pretend. maybe im out of line, maybe this isnt my place or maybe its time someone stood up and told people exactly how they feel instead of being a yes man and agreeing that things are good because they would rather just let things be instead of risking their pretend role on a fantasy game.
seriously, there are some things that people REALY want, ive been excited about the idea of a guild hall since the very first time i heard about the idea, whuts the hold up with those?
olc is buggy, its so completely fubar its not going to be fixed?
sometimes its the little things that mean the most to people, soj is such a kick ass game, its got a long history predating me by years
maybe sojourn is ok with a fraction of the pbase of former wipes
maybe theres no hope of ever seeing a pbase like that again with compitition like ever quest
maybe soj is good enough and people here, gods and players are happy just the way it is
maybe there are lots of people out there who would come back if only...
maybe more of the people who never make it past the first couple levels b4 giving up would stay if only....
*shrug*
maybe this thread will be deleted or flamed to no end because criticism sucks and nobody wants to hear it
Shar
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Postby Shar » Sun Jun 29, 2003 10:09 pm

To assume anything is to make ... well, you know how the saying goes.


Talking bad about other muds isnt allowed here, but feel free to give constructive feedback. I don't understand why people have the need to pointlessly slam the Gods of this mud,seeing as how they are the ones who provide it to you free of cost, when it is not in fact, free to run. The rules aren't difficult to live within unless by nature you are a rule breaker. Some of you guys will never be truly satisfied by this mud. That's fine. We will continue to try to improve the playability of Sojourn3 and production will probably never be complete. New zones/code go in *all* the time.

The two things we WON'T tolerate is purposeful abuse of the rules and harrassment of the staff. If you do not enjoy playing on this mud, nothing is keeping you here. Advertising for a mud using another muds player forums or random tells/channels isn't appropriate. I'm happy you enjoy playing on a different mud. We don't want people here if they arent finding joy in it. Using this BBS to promote other muds won't be allowed to continue. We don't want to take players from any other mud and we don't want ours to be taken. I'm sure the owners of "that other mud" would be put-out if this situation were reversed.

Above all things, this mud is about the players. Slowly but surely, the code and zones change. Thats what Beta is all about. Sure, it takes a long time but we aren' in a rush to make the best mud out there. Rushing leads to mistakes. We feel we provide an enjoyable atmosphere to our players, and regardless of the negativity *shoved* down the Gods throats on a constant basis, Sojourn3 LIVES ON!

Production continues, rules are enforced. The pbase will eventually increase and advertising will help. Keep in mind that gaming is supposed to be fun. If it weren't, it would be called "paining" instead.

We promote ourselves but not to the detriment of other muds. Respect that please and, be *happy* with your decision to either stay, or move on.
Shar - Forger Administrator, TorilMUD

Brandobaris : (51) [ would a forgotten realms zombie be interested in brains? ]

Shevarash tells you 'Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down..... groan'
Turxx
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Postby Turxx » Mon Jun 30, 2003 4:54 am

Shar"]To assume anything is to make ... well, you know how the saying goes.

--im not sure where that came from, nobody assumed anything here, these posts are the opinions, ideas, thoughts and feelings of a couple people

Talking bad about other muds isnt allowed here, but feel free to give constructive feedback. I don't understand why people have the need to pointlessly slam the Gods of this mud,seeing as how they are the ones who provide it to you free of cost, when it is not in fact, free to run. The rules aren't difficult to live within unless by nature you are a rule breaker. Some of you guys will never be truly satisfied by this mud. That's fine. We will continue to try to improve the playability of Sojourn3 and production will probably never be complete. New zones/code go in *all* the time.

--people arent 'talking bad' about other muds here unless you consider me saying this is whut i do like and this is whut i dont like talking bad.
--i dont see pointless slamming here either, granted some of the words may be a bit harsh but youre right, you cnat please everyone all the time, people are going to have opinions negative and possitive on just about everything theyve put any thought into.
--it seems to me that it was stressed repeatedly in all of those posts how much we enjoy our time mudding, and that is in its way a thank you for providing the opportunity but the fact is you want to do whut it is you do in the mud as much as we do or you wouldnt be doing it.
--as for the rules being easy to follow, noone is denying that but the fact is shar you singled me out, ive been playing here since last wipe, you are the first and only god to decide i was some sort of menace to the order of the game some how, and you can make any arguement you want to that but i know whut i do and whut i dont do as far as whut rules i bend or break go, you like whut you do, you like being an enforcer, you like authority and control, you do whut you do because you want to and whut started out as a cat and mouse game between us escalated into something personal, its too bad too, ive known you a long time and our mortals are able to kick it together and we both have a good time enjoying the others company, even tho you continue to pretend or deny or whutever you want to call it that you arent in fact the same person, that too was a sort of little cat and mouse game i once enjoyed, now its just insulting


The two things we WON'T tolerate is purposeful abuse of the rules and harrassment of the staff. If you do not enjoy playing on this mud, nothing is keeping you here. Advertising for a mud using another muds player forums or random tells/channels isn't appropriate. I'm happy you enjoy playing on a different mud. We don't want people here if they arent finding joy in it. Using this BBS to promote other muds won't be allowed to continue. We don't want to take players from any other mud and we don't want ours to be taken. I'm sure the owners of "that other mud" would be put-out if this situation were reversed.


Above all things, this mud is about the players. Slowly but surely, the code and zones change. Thats what Beta is all about. Sure, it takes a long time but we aren' in a rush to make the best mud out there. Rushing leads to mistakes. We feel we provide an enjoyable atmosphere to our players, and regardless of the negativity *shoved* down the Gods throats on a constant basis, Sojourn3 LIVES ON!

--the mud is about everyone involved, it was created and donated to the public, the gods want to play their part and the players want to play theyre part, if this werent the case the we wouldnt be here. ive done some zonewriting, im aware of the efoort involved, but im not gunna pretend im doing it to provide some grand service to someone else, free of charge and anyone with harsh criticism is just some spoiled little ingrate who doesnt deserve to be in my zone
--the fact of the matter is we all have our own issues and we have all found our ways to deal with them, some people are going to use harsh words and say mean things in the heat of the moment, that doesnt mean they dont like you or they dont appreciate you, nor does it by any means make their reaction ok, on the flip side of the coin you have placed yourself in a possition where you are going to make people angry and then your going to have to deal with that, this is the role youve choosen for youself, showing people the door every time youre in disagreement with someone is no way to defuse a situation, youre going to have some people walk out the door, people who where, for the most part good for the mud and youre going to have other people clam up, not walk out the door but be forever bitter that thats the way they were treated.
--you can look at it as negativity shoved down your throats, in a way thats exactly whut it is, you can let that make you bitter and resentful and allow it to destroy your efforts in your own mind, or you can take it for whut it is as the venting of frustrated peole, people who put just as much time and energy into the mud as you do, the players and the leaders, the other half of whut makes a mud great and sojourn is a great mud
--Sojourn3 LIVES ON! now thats a great sentiment but i cant help but think you said that in defiance, as if there are players out there in constant effort to destroy it, while there may have been some extreme cases thats not the general rule and is by no means why i decided to take the time to express myself here

Production continues, rules are enforced. The pbase will eventually increase and advertising will help. Keep in mind that gaming is supposed to be fun. If it weren't, it would be called "paining" instead.

--im glad production continues, im glad youre going to advertise and draw in new players. i am however disappointed by the way you choose not to address the reasons people are leaving, instead you make comments like theres the door, see ya, bye
--the mud is about the players you say, ok, so why arent some of our greatest wishes being addressed? guild hauls, every time someone inquires about those its made clear that those may never go in, they are not a priority, 80% of the mud is guilded, give us our guild hauls
--restrings, you guys did restrings for baik and gromi when they got married, then you decided you cant do that anymore, because now everyone wants restrings, why not insread give us our silly restrings, that quest baik and gromi had to do was insanely hard but you know whut? everyone banded together to make sure it got done, things like that pulled evils together as a communty, everyone was excited and happy to help, give us our stupid restrings
--alts and the assoc channel, almost everyone is guilded and we all wanted to be able to use the assoc channel with our alts, give us our assoc channel
--the rules, the rules, the rules...everybody was botting to do exp, maybe instead of cracking down on that you should have just let it go, instead no noone is exping anymore and the mud is dead, how is that a good thing? yeah sure, people arent botting anymore, they just quit logging on
--this isnt a democracy...thats fine, but fail to adress the popular wants and desires of the players and they are going to leave and no ammount of advertising or coding or new zones is gunna change that, people want to bot exp, so whut? how is that harmfull to the mud? its not, everyone got whut they wanted, players were playing, the zones you put so much effort into were being done and enjoyed regularly, everybody wins, the mud you created is full of people enjoying it and the players were all here enjoying the mud. how many evils do you suppose stopped exping after you shut me down? how i could be in the middle of a conversation with you and you could say im botting is beyond me, omg, i could go afk and nothing would be disrupted within my group because my triggers could work without me, nm the fact the you repeatedly harrased me to see if i was afk only to learn that i wasnt
zusuk, caught and caged for a week never to return, im glad he was happy to walk away and focuss on school and dating and rl, right on man, and now theres all the people you didnt catch who saw whut was gunna happen, slowly but surely people just quit playing, it was a domino effect, player a only logged on because he new player b was going to have something going on, now because player b only realy wants to be on to chat a little bit while he watches tv he makes some triggers so player a can steer him around, so now we have player b with whut he wants and thats simply to be logged on, player a gets whut he wants and thats a safe and effective way to level his char and because a and b are rolling players c d and e are going to come along for the ride, player c is oldschool, he only realy plays to zone so he creates and elaberate set of triggers to operate his char and walks away from the computer, player d is a n00b and still in awe of everything, not quite got a handle on anything well enough yet to have the confidence to do anything independantly but is tickled pink to be included with whut these other people have goign on, player e, well player e is there because he needs exp and this is where hes gunna get it, the fact that one guy isnt even at his keyboard and the other guy is a n00b and is still figuring out how to play his char, that doesnt realy matter because his role isnt cruicial, he has a sturdy and reliable tank, and an efficiant driver, everything is going smoothly and thats fine by him
--it doesnt matter that everyone is happy here, that you created a game that 5 people choose a little corner of and are all in their own way happily, quietly enjoying the mud, botting is against the rules and youre not going to tolerate it, so now, player c, the zone leader, the one guy 14 other people log onto follow cant exp anymore because he doesnt play so he can exp, the mindless, monotonus repition of exo is so mind numbing to him he just isnt gunna do it, player a and e still want to exp but without player b its just so hard, besides, with player c gone there isnt alot of reason for exp left, he was the zone leader, player b is still around, but he only logs onto idle so he isnt tanking exp for people anymore and player d is crushed, he loves the game and had alot of fun watching all the spam go by in his exp groups he still hasnt got a good enough handle on anything to do anything, player d1 gradually looses intrest and logs on less and less as everytime he does he is only let down again that he isnt able to join other people, player d2 is stronger, he resolves himself and finds a way, but still, player c left and so did half of the 14 people who logged on beacuse they wanted to follow him, and, slowly, but surely, everyone looses intrest in the game and we have whut we have right now, 6 evils on at a time, one of them a solo artist of doing his thing, the other, an uber idle, parked in the stable or the morgue somewhere, the other that one guy whos bound and determined not to let the ship go down so he comes and does everything he knows how to do to keep people intrested, then, the other 3, afore mentioned followers, probably newbies who realy dont understand yet that they are the only ones realy having fun, argue that this isnt the case, i was there, i saw it happen
--i dont say this because it pleases me, i say this because i miss the way things were, i miss evils zoning everynight, i miss those exp groups with players a c d and e.....
--quote your rules, punish the violaters, show people the door whe they tell you hey, i dont like the way this is
--but now we got a whole new prollem, you drew a line and now how do you back away from it? will pride let you or is there still nothing wrong in your mind with the way things are, its ok people dont like the rules they dont have to play, or can you back off without everyone thinking whoot, we can bot and then everyone starts doing it, if everyone started botting would it even realy be a bad thing?
--whut about these other little things that would breath new life onto the mud and revive the player base, guild halls and the ensueing competion to who can build the biggest and the best guild halls
--restring quests, and the excitment that would bring to so many to put together their very own very special eq set, the ultimate trophy
--alts and acc, nothing realy truely spectacular but something everyone would love and take advantage of

We promote ourselves but not to the detriment of other muds. Respect that please and, be *happy* with your decision to either stay, or move on
Shar
FORGER ADMIN
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Postby Shar » Mon Jun 30, 2003 5:32 am

The truth is, Turxx that I did not single you out, you singled me out with your latest post. I was not addressing your post (which is my mistake for not indicating in my original) but I am going to address it now.

firstly, your idea that we are doing nothing, or that we are ignoring the concerns of the players- to further the mud is incorrect. I know for a fact that guildhall code (also known as kingdom code aka, player houses/guild halls) is being written. I also happen to know first hand that it wont be ready for a **minimum** of 2 months. We hesitate to give timelines because the staff, just like you, have RL obligations, jobs, family and other commitments that take them away from the ability to work here 24-7. We do not want our time lines to end up as teasers and lies.

secondly, no constructive criticizm goes ignored. The truth is, there are literally THOUSANDS of coding projects on the list of things that need doing/redoing. That makes it extremely important to prioritize, which means: We cannot get everything done right now. We also cannot hire more coders if none show promise or intrest who can handle the workload.

thirdly, flames are ignored. This includes *all* slamming of gods.

fourthly, I resent the fact that you feel I singled you out when the truth of the matter is, you singled yourself out by breaking rules continually. I *would* show you the door if I thought you should leave, but as you know, I have taken the time to explain to you that this mud would feel your loss especially from the evil-raced side. If you feel singled out, maybe your conscience is trying to tell you something. Yes, we deal with players who break the rules. Yes, we end up showing some of them the door but the fact still remains that the rules were enforced before you got here and will continue to be enforced should you decide to leave.

fifth, the RP-Quest sphere has undergone a MASSIVE scale overhaul. Restrings wont be handed out like candy any longer. It is based on RP now, and will be permanantly. It is key to the growth of the mud not to hand out unique items or restrings without adequate and weighed effort. When this sphere was brand new, there was no basis for rules. We have since shaped the sphere into a semblance of organization. Because it is so new, we will be feeling our edges for a while. That (among other reasons ) is why we are in beta.

lastly, I want you to realize that the staff do not respond well to demands. Demanding that we implement code that is either 1/2 written or unfinished will NOT accomplish the things players want sooner. Putting in guild halls without the proper code would not be an acceptable solution. Why? Because half-done code would not function properly and would therefore be detrimental to the stability and overall health of the mud.

I'm sorry you feel singled out Turxx, but you are wrong. I am only just now responding to your latest post and I only do my job here, but ... I do it well. If you don't want singled out, stop making yourself obvious.

For the record, I, and the other staff of Sojourn3 CARE about what happens to players. Without you, there would be no mud, but remember... without the staff, there would be no you.
Shar - Forger Administrator, TorilMUD

Brandobaris : (51) [ would a forgotten realms zombie be interested in brains? ]

Shevarash tells you 'Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down..... groan'
Mitharx
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Postby Mitharx » Mon Jun 30, 2003 5:52 am

I asked an immortal the other day why people were leaving to play on the other mud when they had claimed that sojourn was there home for long periods of time. He responded that some players had felt they had "beaten sojourn" and there was no need to continue playing. I'm a pretty new player to zoning (but not mudding) here and so things seem exciting to me that may seem old and stale to other players. However, the addition of the new zones (and I've heard rumors that others are being worked on) would lead me to believe that you can't beat a game that is constantly changing. Changes seem slow, but bards have been upgraded, warriors have been upgraded, several new zonelets/xp areas have been added since eI started playing. It feels like a long period of time, but someone reminded me that I only started mitharx about a year ago. Zones, upgrades and such, take time to create and implement. Before you flame me with "yes, I'm aware of the creative mud process" responses, I'm simply saying that advancement of sojourn as a whole is not really slow. The amount of feedback we get from gods is relatively good and just because we don't get constant feedback, it doesn't mean that they're not working on things or considering ideas. Keep in mind that azerost still can't relo or gate, this is no favoritism, but the gods do take what we say seriously.
As for the participation of gods in mud conversations, I've seen several people post (in the past) that once again they have no immortal participation in their conversations. With all due respect to the well thought out ideas of players here, the immortals must check, then double check with other immortals on ideas to make sure they're balanced and fair. Have you noticed that when someone posts a "I think there is problem w/this code" message and an example that shevy, itchy or garg, responds right away? These things can be fixed quickly w/out balance issues most of the time, other areas are not so easy to balance.
Shar, I don't think there was a ton of direct flaming (implied aside) or ripping on sojourn, but there was a prevailing attitude of some players that sojourn was "beatable." Think what you will, but the best part of sojourn is, and has been the players here. I know myself and a ton of other players stayed on during the times of trouble in order to keep talking with other people here or simply to enjoy the little group experiencese we could do. Overall, the spirit of sojourn wasn't lost with the people who stayed. To these people, it's not the repeating of the same zones over that matters, but the people you do it with. Perhaps this is harder to see on the evil side because they have such a limited playerbase, I don't know. In any case, sojourn is about the people who care about their home here, and not about if they beat the game.
In the end, go where you want do what you want. I lost some people that I really liked when they deccided to play the other mud, but at the same time I know the people I group with now really care about the other people here and sojourn as a home.
I talked to a newbie the other day (one I had helped in the past) who told me that she thought sojourn was really weird, but she would keep playing because the people were really nice. I don't agree with sojourn being weird, ,but I do the second part. Long live sojourn.
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Shevarash
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Postby Shevarash » Mon Jun 30, 2003 5:56 am

Turxx --

Nobody has singled you out or treated you unfairly. Your post essentially accuses Shar of going on a witchhunt after you, and nothing could be further from the truth. I've personally observed her being more patient with you than any saint, and spending FAR more time than is required of her trying to help you understand and abide by the rules here. And yes, we DO have rules here. We always have, and we always will. To use an old MUD expression "This is our house, when you enter, you follow our rules." These rules are not arbitary - they are in place to keep this MUD fun, balanced, and legal, and they've all been well thought out. Bottom line - our vision of a fun and balanced gameworld requires certain rules - you can either play by them or find somewhere else that has rules more to your suiting.

As to the rest of your post, frankly - I'm not going to respond to your points. You do not pay to play this game, and you have no right to make demands of it. If you are unhappy with the state of the game to the extent that you can't play it, you have two options:

1) Present your suggestions constructively and coherently. If your vision of a fun gameworld matches the Staff's, your ideas will be implemented - as time permits.

2) Stop playing.

Your choice, that of being abusive and demanding, will get you nothing but ignored.
Shevarash -- Code Forger of TorilMUD
Turxx
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Postby Turxx » Mon Jun 30, 2003 7:36 am

ok, now in rereading whut i wrote i can see the english i used, and yes it come off like i am demanding certain things happen, that is not however how i ment it and i think you know that too, i was mearly trying to emphasis these are some things that myself and many others would realy love to see, i have never and would never accuse any of you of being lazy, i tried to make it clear that i am aware of the countless hours required in creating and maintaining soj
you people have known me a long time, most of you prolly have a pretty good idea of how i think
i never accused shar of being 'mean' to me, but what you see as patiently spending far more time with me then other i see as hovering and patronizing, i never claimed to be an angle and i know ive had most of you step up to me and say stop and one point or anouther in all my years here
i dont save logs shar, sometimes i wish i did, you told me i was being watched, you made your presence known almost daily, ive been here for years shar, ive been the same loud mouthed obnoxious punk since day one, youre the first god to make a real issue out of the way i express myself
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Shevarash
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Postby Shevarash » Mon Jun 30, 2003 8:07 am

No.

What I see is someone trying very hard to help you because they CARE and WANT you to stay. And you being a jackass and complaining about it.

Frankly, most anyone else but Shar would have been all too happy to throw in the towel and delete you long ago.

Stop complaining, follow the simple rules, and be happy you can play somewhere where the staff honestly cares about you and wants to help, instead of delete.

That is all.
Shevarash -- Code Forger of TorilMUD
Shar
FORGER ADMIN
Posts: 791
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2001 6:01 am

Postby Shar » Mon Jun 30, 2003 8:14 am

Turxx, I have no idea where you get the idea that i hover over you or patronize you. I do nothing more than my administrative job here which includes watching over "trouble" players, and yes you are on that list. You might want to take a step back and evaluate how you got on that list and actually decide to change the troublesome behavior. If not, you'll continue to be watched, just like every one else who causes trouble on a regular basis.

I could choose to ignore your posts and your concerns, but that is not my style. I am here to help you, which I have done... which I have tried to do for quite a while. I have no need to defend my actions to you or to anyone else who questions them. There is no need for that, but I reply to you now because I also employ the belief that you should sieze teaching moments when they appear. I am however, making this my last post to your replys-- past, and should they happen, future.

If you would prefer, I can let the other gods step in and let them delete you for your offenses. You see it as hovering but you have *no* idea how much I have done in your behalf to *keep* you on this mud. If you don't appreciate it, I'll stop. If you don't want to be here, leave. If you feel abused or mistreated, it is not because of anything I have done. You put yourself in this situation that you so obviously despise. I am merely trying to help you *out* of the web you spun for yourself.

I have been extremely polite in *all* my dealings with you. There has never been a time that I felt ready to throw in the towel on you or your troublesome ways. You yourself have admited on several occasions that you enjoy breaking the rules and that we should just accept that as part of your personality. THAT is the reason why you are watched. I just happen to be the lucky god that gets to do it. If it weren't me, if I weren't the one who does it, *you* would have been deleted a *long* time ago.

Do you realize that players in the past were deleted for just one offense?

How you can even fathom the idea that I single you out is beyond my cabability for comprehension.

I've said it before, and I will inevitably say it again. Fit within the rules, or be punished. You KNOW what you need to change, so change it, or be punished... the same as everyone else.

As for me knowing how you think, I honestly have no clue how your mind works or what you think. All I have to go by is the text you print on my screen. Everyone knows that text is not the ideal medium for communication. Mind reading is not a skill I possess. What I picture is a player who assumes he is singled out because he breaks a few rules that he dosen't really consider to be important anyway. What you fail to realize is that each and every rule here is in place for 3 reasons. One, to protect the owners of this mud from legal issues with thier contracts. Two, to protect all players from the few players who *will* break rules. Three, to uphold the way the owners and operators of this mud *want* it to be.

There are *zero* rules in place that are "out to get" players.

I do keep logs Turxx. So does the mud. We record virtually everything done (outside of personal communication). The proof is in the logs, and fortunately, airing dirty laundry is not my style.

If you feel singled out by this post, it is probably because I responded to you singling me out, but I am finished defending my personal actions.

(edited for clarity)
Shar - Forger Administrator, TorilMUD

Brandobaris : (51) [ would a forgotten realms zombie be interested in brains? ]

Shevarash tells you 'Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down..... groan'
Elseenas
Sojourner
Posts: 755
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Golden, CO US

How to make friends and influence people...

Postby Elseenas » Mon Jun 30, 2003 8:27 am

Okay, I wasn't going to comment, but I think I have to after seeing this.

Stop complaining, follow the simple rules, and be happy you can play somewhere where the staff honestly cares about you and wants to help, instead of delete.


I have spent the last year being an administrator on a forum with more regular posters than sojourn has seen in a long time. A large part of my job was to interact with people, to talk to them about their concerns and ideas, put fears to rest about abusive moderation, and deal with complaints. I've had to deal with people far more beligerent and far less kind than it is likely that Turxx has ever been.

I was very well liked on that forum as an admin and a moderator and was, by an overwhelming landslide, the top choice for the equivalent position when we restructured the forum.

One of the major reasons is, despite having lost it once or twice, I never posted anything that was anywhere close to "Stop complaining, follow the simple rules, and be happy you can play somewhere where the staff honestly cares about you and wants to help, instead of delete."

You want to kill off the sojourn player base? Keep making comments like that one. I don't care what Turxx did or did not do, comments like this are unwarranted, unnecessary, and offensive considering your position.
sezas
Sojourner
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2003 10:50 am

Postby sezas » Mon Jun 30, 2003 10:57 am

Shevarash wrote:

1) Present your suggestions constructively and coherently. If your vision of a fun gameworld matches the Staff's, your ideas will be implemented - as time permits.

2) Stop playing.

Your choice, that of being abusive and demanding, will get you nothing but ignored.


well nth much to say here cept that yes, since you are so inflexible i would say many pple chose the 2nd choice, to stop playin or to log on so infrequently the might as well have stopped playing
rylan
Sojourner
Posts: 2903
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Hudson, MA

Postby rylan » Mon Jun 30, 2003 1:22 pm

I think this is the best part of tyhis thread:
Shar wrote:Kiaransalee : (51) [ mmm... fatty leftover pork ]
Guest

Closed

Postby Guest » Mon Jun 30, 2003 1:41 pm

And since this thread has devolved to not much at all anymore and since I can't follow why responses are occuring like they are and it's getting way too personal, that's the end of it.

Erevan

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