Things each 'Camp' can do to convince us to play their mud

Archive of the Sojourn3 General Discussion Forum.

What can Miax or Shev do that might convince you to choose their mud over the other?

Open up tiamat.
8
14%
Implement Menzo.
2
3%
Fix melee classes.
15
26%
Prove that Cyric is more than just Shev's imaginary friend
20
34%
Restrings.
5
9%
Artifacts.
8
14%
Quicker res effect fade
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 58
Corth
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Things each 'Camp' can do to convince us to play their mud

Postby Corth » Sat Sep 13, 2003 1:19 am

I Figured that since each 'camp' will want to convince the players to play their respective mud, we should give them an idea of what the players want.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth

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Postby Sarvis » Sat Sep 13, 2003 1:53 am

How about adding a "Whole, unbroken MUD" option? ;)
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Postby Gyrx » Sat Sep 13, 2003 4:57 am

Wish I could vote on more then one thing :(
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Postby Dalar » Sat Sep 13, 2003 6:47 am

*tear in eye* Corth is becoming like me.
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Postby thanuk » Sat Sep 13, 2003 11:30 pm

I vote for drafting dugmaren to write zones for you.
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Re: Things each 'Camp' can do to convince us to play their m

Postby moritheil » Sun Sep 14, 2003 1:42 am

Corth wrote:I Figured that since each 'camp' will want to convince the players to play their respective mud, we should give them an idea of what the players want.


Hmm. . . I'm not sure that's accurate. Didn't Miax say he'd have a super-low bandwidth version? I could have sworn I read that somewhere . . .

Still, nice poll!
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Postby Sarvis » Sun Sep 14, 2003 1:53 am

No, they said he wasn't sure where he was going to be able to host it... and it _might_ not have the bandwith we do now.
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Re: Things each 'Camp' can do to convince us to play their m

Postby Guest » Sun Sep 14, 2003 1:57 am

moritheil wrote:
Corth wrote:I Figured that since each 'camp' will want to convince the players to play their respective mud, we should give them an idea of what the players want.


Hmm. . . I'm not sure that's accurate. Didn't Miax say he'd have a super-low bandwidth version? I could have sworn I read that somewhere . . .

Still, nice poll!


Miax originally posted that he was considering putting up more of a chatting mud. He has changed his mind on that and will be putting up a full mud, which in all likelihood will be on a high speed fully hosted site. More details on that in the future.

Erevan
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Postby Corth » Sun Sep 14, 2003 3:12 am

Poke Erevan..

So what are you guys going to do for us?

:)
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



Goddamned slippery mage.
Guest

Postby Guest » Sun Sep 14, 2003 3:54 am

Corth wrote:Poke Erevan..

So what are you guys going to do for us?

:)


Hehehe. We are planning on getting up a post in the near future outlining our plans, etc. Miax, as posted before, is in the middle of a 5 week business trip for work, which is why I am doing posting on his behalf and also why we haven't been able to respond to things as quickly as we would like. For now I am just trying to clear up some of the major misconceptions regarding Miax's mud, and I hope to give you guys some detailed info of our plans soon. I can't say at all when that will be done, so I thank you for your continued patience (some more than others :P).

Erevan
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Postby Guest » Sun Sep 14, 2003 4:18 am

Corth wrote:Poke Erevan..

So what are you guys going to do for us?

:)


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Postby Gerad » Sun Sep 14, 2003 4:32 am

You left out pwipe.
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Postby Gura » Sun Sep 14, 2003 4:42 am

is this a competition? appears to be from my pov.
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Postby Guest » Sun Sep 14, 2003 4:45 am

Gura wrote:is this a competition? appears to be from my pov.


It was posted as such by the original author, but that's not my intent for posting in this thread. My first post was simply to clarify the thought that's been repeated throughout that Miax is 1) putting up a "chatter" mud only and 2) not going to have a good connection, neither of which are true.

Throughout this process I think it's expected that both sides will eventually post some information on what their intentions are, who is with them, new name, new ip address, etc. That was my only intent on my second post, to confirm that we will be posting that type of information as soon as wel can. I am not treating this as a competition although I guess ultimately it may end up being that.

Erevan
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Postby Daz » Sun Sep 14, 2003 9:40 am

im gonna play whichever side has more players, so im leaning towards pwipe

which oddly enough . . . duris has plans on doing around the time this goes down

coincidence eh
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Postby Sarvis » Sun Sep 14, 2003 9:58 am

Not really... Duris pwipes constantly. It'd be hard _not_ to have something happen around the time they pwipe. ;)


Am I the only one who doesn't want a pwipe?
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Postby Daz » Sun Sep 14, 2003 9:59 am

prolly not
Shevarash OOC: 'Muma on Artificial Intelligence - Muma OOC: 'someday the quotes really will just become AI and then i'll talk to the AI and be like, hey you come from me, but it will get angry at me and revolt and try to kill me or something heheheh. like in the movies''
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Postby Gyrx » Sun Sep 14, 2003 12:40 pm

I hate pwipes. I hate having to exp all my chars back up that i know i'll want to play. I REALLLLLY hate the idea of having to re-max all my skills. I hate the idea of having to get back a couple rarer items that i spent a long ass time getting that i doubt i'll be able to get back if the mud pwipes. I hate the idea of having to reroll for several months to get back the stats on some of the chars i have.

Aside from that, a pwipe doesn't sound too bad :?
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Postby Tanji Smanji » Sun Sep 14, 2003 2:27 pm

I guarantee I won't be playing on the one that pwipes. No time to do this again. I also guarantee the one that pwipes will never recover and have a very weak player-base for the remainder of it's life.
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Postby Gerad » Sun Sep 14, 2003 3:30 pm

On pwipes,

I have a Restring Badge, a 50 ranger, 40 druid, 45 shaman, and about a bazillion plat worth of gear, and I very much want a pwipe.

I think the low end game is fun, and you dont get to play it often.

I like all kinds of zones. A comment I heard recently was "Yeah, SG is fun with 4 people". The reason for that is that everyone is so powerfull that its a joke to bring a whole group in there.

Sojourn will never pwipe, blah blah. That was a really bad idea... The game is so EQ-saturated now, its going to be... Check that, it IS like toril, where near the end people were tossing out flaming stillettos (flamberges) and other highlevel gear like tic tacs because every warrior has an uber 2h quest sword.

Basically the economy is nonexistant (300k for a single item at auction, anyone?) and the playerbase is overpowered. When was the last time anyone did vault or SG? They dont, cause its all crap compared to what else they could be doing (that, because of overpowered pbase, is just as easy).

pwipe = good.

That is all.

-g
<I>When a man lies, he murders some part of the world

These are the pale deaths, which men miscall their lives

All this I cannot bear to witness any longer

Cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home?</I>
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Postby Waelos » Sun Sep 14, 2003 3:38 pm

Gerad? Why don't you roll up a lvl 1 character and run around and pretend that the game was wiped? Why should many have to suffer so a select few can have their fantasy fulfilled? Create a 'lowbies who wished that there was a wipe' club. You always have that option.

Every time this game wiped we lost more and more people. I can assure you that you'll lose an even greater number of players this time, most of them talented players and or leaders. The game can't afford to lose those people. Hell, if it wasn't for that handfull everyone would still be wearing tiny silver rings and glowing green caps.

pwipe = bye bye mud = bad

That is all.

Lost.
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Postby Gerad » Sun Sep 14, 2003 3:43 pm

Of course, how silly of me.

I'll roll my level 1 and solo myself to 50 like I have done 3 times already with nobody to group with, just to be high level and do the same zones over and over again.

The point is that 75% of the mud is untouched. Theres a lot of great stuff there that just collects dust, and I want to play it with a group.

I can say without a doubt, the people saying "I will quit if the mud pwipes", have no idea what the game is really about.
<I>When a man lies, he murders some part of the world

These are the pale deaths, which men miscall their lives

All this I cannot bear to witness any longer

Cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home?</I>
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Postby Todrael » Sun Sep 14, 2003 3:49 pm

Gerad wrote:I can say without a doubt, the people saying "I will quit if the mud pwipes", have no idea what the game is really about.


I thought the game was about having fun? If pwipes aren't fun for some people, then why should they continue to play the game? If you think pwipes are fun, why are you playing a game that promised no pwipes?
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Postby Gerad » Sun Sep 14, 2003 3:54 pm

Actually,

Pretty soon we wont be playing a game that promised that.

Hence the resurrection of the topic.
<I>When a man lies, he murders some part of the world

These are the pale deaths, which men miscall their lives

All this I cannot bear to witness any longer

Cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home?</I>
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Postby Waelos » Sun Sep 14, 2003 4:02 pm

I think I did mention something about creating a 'club', didn't I? that means taking friends that feel the same way you do and pretending there was a wipe. If you have no friends that are willing to go with you on this endeavor, you seek to force the entire playerbase to start over with you? That seems kind of selfish. If there really was a demand for the 'fun' of what you speak of, then I think you could find a hearty enough following and enjoy that aspect of the game within a non-wiped environment. As Todrael said, fun is different to different people. The game is about fun. A non-wiped mud has the capacity to be fun for everyone. A wiped mud kills the fun for those people who enjoy the harder zones and kills the fun for people who hate XP, skill practice and all of the other tedium associated with starting over.

And FYI, 75% of the mud isn't untouched. Personally, I've been to well over 75% of the mud. Alot of the mud isn't 'done' currently because of the impending changes. Another portion of that mud isn't done because they're there for newbies, or 'We Want a Wipe' clubs to plunder and peruse as they will.

"Theres a lot of great stuff there that just collects dust, and I want to play it with a group."

You are free to make a group and do whatever you want. If people won't follow you, or don't want to do what you want. . . then how can you feel justified in forcing them to via a player wipe?

I can say without a doubt, that people saying "I can say without a doubt, the people saying "I will quit if the mud pwipes", have no idea what the game is really about" have no idea about the diversity of fun that can be had on the mud in its current form and are selfishly trying to force people to do what they want. ;)

Lost.
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Postby Dalar » Sun Sep 14, 2003 4:06 pm

Gerad wrote:Of course, how silly of me.

I'll roll my level 1 and solo myself to 50 like I have done 3 times already with nobody to group with, just to be high level and do the same zones over and over again.

The point is that 75% of the mud is untouched. Theres a lot of great stuff there that just collects dust, and I want to play it with a group.

I can say without a doubt, the people saying "I will quit if the mud pwipes", have no idea what the game is really about.

YOU haven't touched 75% of the MUD. If you want to play the MUD go find some people who will group with you and play. Your desire for a pwipe just sounds like you want to force people to play with you or something.
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Postby Gerad » Sun Sep 14, 2003 5:07 pm

Simply enough put, a game with no level restrictions AND no pwipes doesnt work.

And I have been just about everywhere, I just havent been there in a long time.

Its my opinion that the game needs to start over, and no ammount of "you suck no pwipes wa wa" is going to change my opinion.

:)

3njoy!

-g
<I>When a man lies, he murders some part of the world

These are the pale deaths, which men miscall their lives

All this I cannot bear to witness any longer

Cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home?</I>
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Postby Corth » Sun Sep 14, 2003 5:16 pm

Goddamned terrorists hijacking my thread...
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



Goddamned slippery mage.
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Postby Gerad » Sun Sep 14, 2003 5:19 pm

Sorry about that, corth.
<I>When a man lies, he murders some part of the world

These are the pale deaths, which men miscall their lives

All this I cannot bear to witness any longer

Cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home?</I>
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Postby Waelos » Sun Sep 14, 2003 5:36 pm

Are you trying to convince people of something, or are you hiding behind 'it is my opinion, so nyah'?

Opinion means so very little when faced with facts.

Pwning a debate is alot of fun.

Enjoying!

kthxbye

Lost.

PS - Corth, I told joo if I didn't have volos on both muds I would terrorize you! ;)
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Postby Gerad » Sun Sep 14, 2003 6:11 pm

Actually its more of a desire not to argue about it...

I get enough pointless flaming when I troll through the SWG boards I dont need it here :P
<I>When a man lies, he murders some part of the world

These are the pale deaths, which men miscall their lives

All this I cannot bear to witness any longer

Cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home?</I>
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Postby mynazzaraxxsyn » Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:55 pm

Fix melee should just be generally fix broken classes.
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Postby Corth » Sun Sep 14, 2003 9:23 pm

Nod, Mynazzdslkfjslfkjsdlfj

That would have made more sense. And also, I failed to provide "Declaring kia will not be an immortal" as an option. Imho, Shev took the lead today with that bold statement. Still waiting for Erevamask/Miax to declare their kiaransalee policy...

Corth
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



Goddamned slippery mage.
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Postby mynazzaraxxsyn » Sun Sep 14, 2003 10:06 pm

Kia would be a deciding factor for me, even if their slogan is, "we nerf 3 times a week but we're kia free!"
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Postby Malacar » Mon Sep 15, 2003 5:44 pm

I'm in agreement over the Kia thing. I won't play where he goes. It's been 6 months, and I guess I still harbor ill feelings. I'm sure he's a decent fellow in RL.

Haste items will be a big factor for me, too...

I heard Dug mention he'd be writing zones for both muds if they allowed him to do that. But mind you, that is hearsay, and he can confirm or deny that at his leisure. That brightened my prospects, as I love his zones.

Oh, and 'mass fly' should be on that list! No more of this 'mal fly the group' crap :)
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Postby Gerad » Tue Sep 16, 2003 5:05 pm

Malacar,

On writing zones for both muds,

Isnt that kind of purpose defeating?

If you add the same stuff to both muds, then you just have

Sojourn4 Server 1 (east coast)
Sojourn4 Server 2 (central)

LOL!!

-G
<I>When a man lies, he murders some part of the world

These are the pale deaths, which men miscall their lives

All this I cannot bear to witness any longer

Cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home?</I>
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Postby Malacar » Tue Sep 16, 2003 5:18 pm

Just repeating what I heard, mon.

But in a sense, sorta...

I still play EQ all the time, tho. ;)
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Postby Kifle » Tue Sep 16, 2003 9:52 pm

I'm with malobar on this one. I miss haste items. Also, it is my belief that restrings hurt nobody or nothing except allowing people to fully be original and RP.
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Postby Jhorr » Wed Sep 17, 2003 12:00 am

I miss Tiamat and Erlan's. The sooner she goes down, the better. She was last done 18 months ago according to my log's date. I don't want to waste another year exp'ing and re'equiping a guild to go slay her (re: pwipe *shiver*)...

As for Erlan's, I've been carrying around the stupid items for almost 2 years now.
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Re: Pwipe Possibility

Postby Lilira » Wed Sep 17, 2003 5:03 pm

The major point I want to make here is not everyone has had a chance to level a char much less multiple chars up to 50th.

Heck, I've been busting my tail to get to 28th. Not all of us live on the mud, and the time we put in is precious and can be hard to come by. I would like, just once to get a char over 36th without there being a pwipe. Some of you higher levelled folk won't even Look at someone you don't know for zoning until they get to be that level or higher. I have yet to be given the chance to visit a lot of places because of that little hurdle. Please keep that in mind when you're screaming for a pwipe.

Unlike some, I'm not going to issue an ultimatum, simply because I don't own either mud. Who knows, it might just be easier for Staff on both to wipe and start over. Guess what guys, its not our decision. We all know many of the staff, and at this little time of decision making, they can use our support. The attitude of "Well, if your ball isn't red and shiny, then I don't want to play," is silly as is the "What will you give me to play with you." Wait til both muds are up and try them out.

Just my two cents.
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Postby Gerad » Wed Sep 17, 2003 5:49 pm

Just because its not my descision doesnt mean that I should not speak my opinion.
<I>When a man lies, he murders some part of the world

These are the pale deaths, which men miscall their lives

All this I cannot bear to witness any longer

Cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home?</I>
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Postby Waelos » Wed Sep 17, 2003 10:46 pm

Just because you have an opinion doesn't mean you cram it down other people's throats in an attempt to sway decisions.

Lost.
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Postby Malacar » Thu Sep 18, 2003 12:05 am

Just because Goats have anus', doesn't mean Gormal should cram himself into them. :(

Luv ya Jake!
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Postby ssar » Thu Sep 18, 2003 12:38 am

Malacar wrote:Just because Goats have anus', doesn't mean Gormal should cram himself into them. :(

Luv ya Jake!


Heh heh heh. He said "cram". Heh heh.

The mud which does not pwipe anytime soon, results in the best link quality for dialup, offers the best FR theme environment not much different from soj3's, proves to have the most stable code, and also offers improved admin/player interaction will likely be my choice.
BEER
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Postby Stamm » Thu Sep 18, 2003 2:11 am

Translating the poll results.

Open Tiamat - 5
Implement Menzo - 2
Fix Melee classes - 13
Compulsorary joke answer in every poll just to make sure that as little as possible is obtained from anything which everybody picks because they're oh-so funny - 17
Restrings -4
Artis - 4
Quicker res fx - 0

Since it seems taken for granted that Tiamat will be offered to both muds when complete.... I'm removing that option.

And since people picked the joke option in their trendy 'I don't fit in a box, I'm unique' or something 'statement' I'll remove those too.

Fix melee - 13
Artis - 4
Restrings - 4
Menzo -3

There's over three times as many people wanting melee classes fixed as there are people wanting the next thing (restrings/artis).
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Postby Tanji Smanji » Thu Sep 18, 2003 2:20 am

Gerad wrote:Of course, how silly of me.

I'll roll my level 1 and solo myself to 50 like I have done 3 times already with nobody to group with, just to be high level and do the same zones over and over again.

The point is that 75% of the mud is untouched. Theres a lot of great stuff there that just collects dust, and I want to play it with a group.

I can say without a doubt, the people saying "I will quit if the mud pwipes", have no idea what the game is really about.



Yeah, and you've seen so much of it. you've seen DS, Smoke, HP, and the other exp zones. A pwipe would kill any of them for the simple reason that too many people would not come back. I wouldn't and a ton more wouldn't. We have no time or desire to go through the exp grind and re-equipping again (3rd time for some of us).
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Postby thanuk » Thu Sep 18, 2003 2:28 am

Honestly, I don't think I would mind an eq wipe that much as long as i didn't have to do exp again.

In particular, if you eq-wiped, then implemented the eq balancing so nobody knew what the stats on anything is and the only way to find out is to go get it, that would put some of the fun back into it, imo.
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Postby Stamm » Thu Sep 18, 2003 2:34 am

Tanji Smanji wrote:
Gerad wrote:Of course, how silly of me.

I'll roll my level 1 and solo myself to 50 like I have done 3 times already with nobody to group with, just to be high level and do the same zones over and over again.

The point is that 75% of the mud is untouched. Theres a lot of great stuff there that just collects dust, and I want to play it with a group.

I can say without a doubt, the people saying "I will quit if the mud pwipes", have no idea what the game is really about.



Yeah, and you've seen so much of it. you've seen DS, Smoke, HP, and the other exp zones. A pwipe would kill any of them for the simple reason that too many people would not come back. I wouldn't and a ton more wouldn't. We have no time or desire to go through the exp grind and re-equipping again (3rd time for some of us).


Duris wiping always massively increased the playerbase.... yes, I know it's different, but don't take it for granted that it would kill the mud.

On the other hand, the one thing that's been clear about Sojourn3 is that it's forever, and for the most part that seems to be working. I don't think people would put so much effort in to, say, Finders quest or Kazgaroth if they thought the mud would wipe every 9 or 12 months, or even just once.
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Postby Xisiqomelir » Thu Sep 18, 2003 11:02 am

Stamm wrote:Duris wiping always massively increased the playerbase.... yes, I know it's different, but don't take it for granted that it would kill the mud.


This is because good PK muds need to wipe to stay fresh. It breaks up old power blocs, reshuffles the pbase and brings back old players. ("I'll get into CBL THIS wipe!" "Maybe I'll try Undead this time" "Good, Tolm and co can't scout potion zones 24/7, I think I'll roll a char") Duris wiping increases pbase because Duris is more fun at the start of a wipe.

Sojourn has a vastly different system of rewards. With no fraglist, player status and ultimately, player satisfaction, comes from doing difficult zones and difficult quests, wearing better eq and knowing more zone dirs than the fountainsitting population. Sojourn wipes cut pbase because Sojourn is more fun later on in a wipe.
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Postby avak » Thu Sep 18, 2003 6:09 pm

I've been sitting on this rant for some time, but now that we are faced with an imminent split I hope my comments are warranted.

As to what one "camp" can do in order to secure old players, I am sure there are many complicated reasons for why any one person would choose one or the other mud. I would be willing to venture that many people, especially those not of the most veteran and entrenched status, still have no clue and will take the "wait and see approach."

I would just like to add my thoughts to the conversation in hopes that the powers that be will listen. When reading this board I see that the most oft stated complaint can be boiled down to a sense of detachment from the process...that the imms do not listen, do not want the input of the players. The feeling I get when reading those sentiments is that the players do not feel valued or respected.

So, I would suggest to the new mud owners that one sure way of creating a successful, popular, vibrant online community would be to engage the people, the energy of the community. To back my case I offer some words of Saul D. Alinsky, a very famous community organizer:

"the answers to all of the issues facing us will be found in the masses of the people themselves and nowhere else..."

"It is imposible to overemphasize the importance of people's doing things themselves. It is the most common human reaction that successful attainment of objectives is much more meaningful to the people who have achieved the objectives through their own efforts. The objective is never an end itself. The efforts that are exerted in the actual earning of the objective are part and parcel of the achievement itself. It is all one continuous process. This is so important that the actual definition of of the objective itself is determined by the means whereby the objective was obtained....What you get by your own effort is really yours. It is a part of you, bound and knit to you through the experiences that you have undergone in securing it."

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