Quitting! Auctioning dragon cult robes and a swirling drago

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Dalar
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Quitting! Auctioning dragon cult robes and a swirling drago

Postby Dalar » Tue Feb 05, 2002 9:09 am

Sorry to trick you all but I really wanted everyone's attention.

About a month ago, Ephrael, a former DSR member, dropped his eq across the MUD. While DSR recovered most of the eq, Lalor/Aderon, Kifle/Aulara, Nlariar, and Cirath all got a good portion of the loot. When asked for it back, all I got were laughs. I was VERY surprised since I had cr'd Aulara and Nlariar's CC group the day before.

On Feb 4-5, Aryk, another former DSR member dropped all of his eq at 1w (for you evils, that means one west of the Great Fountain of Waterdeep) one by one. Below is a log of what was picked up.


< 793h/793H 129p/129P 132v/132V> You don't have the leggings.
< 793h/793H 129p/129P 132v/132V> You do not see a leggings here.
Aryk drops a chest plate of the Golden Flame.
Lonel gets a chest plate of the Golden Flame.
Imis group-says 'sigh he just dropping stuff'
Aryk stops using an ancient holy bracelet of Netheril.
Aryk stops using a twisted metallic blue bracelet.
< 793h/793H 129p/129P 132v/132V> Nyzanu says 'this is biased to people not on telnet
Dhurn group-says 'boggle......why is it that paladins are so ungrateful'
Aryk drops a twisted metallic blue bracelet.
Lalor gets a twisted metallic blue bracelet.
Aryk drops an ancient holy bracelet of Netheril.
Lalor gets an ancient holy bracelet of Netheril.

WHAP! Nyzanu whaps Lalor upside the head!

Aryk drops a shimmering holy sword of the planetar.
< 793h/793H 129p/129P 132v/132V> You get a shimmering holy sword of the planetar.
Doh! Lonel looks stupidly at you. You figure that one out all by yourself?
Lalor rolls on the floor laughing.
< 793h/793H 129p/129P 132v/132V> A shimmering holy sword of the planetar flashes with intense light, burning you severly.
Aryk stops using a purple silk eyepatch.
Gindipple chuckles politely at you.
Aryk drops a purple silk eyepatch.
Lalor gets a purple silk eyepatch.
Imis group-says 'lalor getting it all'
Kifle rolls on the floor laughing.
Aryk stops using a blue polkadot cloak.
Aryk drops a blue polkadot cloak.
Lalor gets a blue polkadot cloak.
A Huge Garden Path
Room size: Large (L:62 ft W:25 ft H:500 ft)
Exits: -E -S -W
A board with 'For Sale' messages on it hangs here.
Gordex (Human) sits resting in mid-air.
Bregar (Dwarf) stands here.
Sartorix (Human) sits resting.
Imis (Human) stands in mid-air here.
Poopil (Gnome) stands here.
Necasio (Grey Elf) stands in mid-air here.
Gindipple (Gnome) stands here.
Nyzanu (Human) sits resting.
Kifle (Halfling) stands here.
Lonel (Halfling) stands here.
Fyzzlroo (Gnome) stands here.
A tropical green parrot perches here, squawking irritably.
Gurns (Half-Elf) stands here.
A magnificent white warhorse stands quietly here.
Aryk (Human) stands here, riding A magnificent heavy warhorse.
Draccus (RP) (Human) stands here.
Shailar (Human) stands here.
Renarya (Grey Elf) stands here.
Lasar (AFK) (Half-Elf) %% stands here.
Nadra (Human) stands here.
Lalor (Dwarf) stands in mid-air here.
Aryk stops using a shiny mithril torque.
Aryk stops using a shiny mithril torque.
Aryk drops a shiny mithril torque.
Draccus gets a shiny mithril torque.
Aryk drops a shiny mithril torque.
Draccus gets a shiny mithril torque.
Aryk drops a huge cold-iron hammer of skullsmashing.
Lalor gets a huge cold-iron hammer of skullsmashing.
Lalor puts a bunch of stuff into bottomless bag of the Tinkers.
Aryk drops a pair of ice bear boots.
Draccus gets a pair of ice bear boots.
Aryk drops a set of basilisk scale leggings.
Lalor gets a set of basilisk scale leggings.
Aryk drops iron crown of the fire giant warlords.
Draccus gets iron crown of the fire giant warlords.
Aryk drops a pair of spiked fire giant gauntlets.
Kifle gets a pair of spiked fire giant gauntlets.
Aryk drops an antlered mask of Valhalla.
Lalor gets an antlered mask of Valhalla.
Aryk drops a lightning earring.
Kifle gets a lightning earring.
Aryk drops a belt of flame enshrouded amethysts.
Kifle gets a belt of flame enshrouded amethysts.
Aryk drops a buckskin pack.
Aryk drops a small barrel.
Aryk drops a silvery sack.
Aryk drops a small skiff.
Aryk drops a potion of restoration.
Draccus gets a potion of restoration.
Kifle gets a small skiff.
Kifle gets a silvery sack.
Kifle gets a small barrel.
Kifle gets a buckskin pack.


When asked for the eq back, (never did ask Lonel), Kifle just ignored all of DSR and lalor said no. Draccus, on the other hand, had alot of class and gave back the eq.

From this day forward, I will ban Lalor, Cirath, Nlariar, and Kifle from groups I enter and groups I lead. If the equipment isn't returned or they remain in their respective guilds within 2 days, I will continue the ban to their guilds, Northern Star and Eternal Covenant.

This is my opinion alone (so far). The equipment Aryk and Ephrael had was from the hard work made by DSR, not Kifle/lalor etc.

Edit:
Flames are not welcomed. If you need to flame, mudmail me plz. Criticism and agreeing to help/disagreeing to OK though.

Also, the log was edited to cut out my get all spam.

[This message has been edited by Dalar (edited 02-05-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Dalar (edited 02-05-2002).]
Shailar
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Postby Shailar » Tue Feb 05, 2002 9:18 am

I don't like replying on this, as everyone seems to tear you to shred's if they disagree, but it seems to me that if it belonged to DSR, why didn't Aryk just place all the eq in a bag and hand it over to the guild leader to do with as he/she pleases? WHy did Aryk just stand at 2w and drop the eq on the floor egging ppl on about whats next. If something is on the ground, yes it is nice to ask if anyone wnts it first, but if the person dropping refues to respong to my ask's, Whispers, and tell's, then i will take what is on the ground, they have a right to ask for it back, but i would expect a decent reson for ignoring my messages first. So by all means if you wish to band these ppl and there guilds, though not all members of the guild were there, then do so. But first answear me why Aryk felt the need to dump the eq rather then hand it over.. was there something to this tha is being hidden from the rest of the ppl present, and now are they being made to suffer becaue of this?

------------------
Medic Shailar Reporting
Dalar
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Postby Dalar » Tue Feb 05, 2002 9:21 am

Ephrael's decision was more of a "I want to be like Jesus and give eq to the 'poor' = people who weren't poor but were just nice to him outside of guild".

Aryk's decision is still unknown, but I'm guessing it was out of spite for the MUD itself. Drop this subject.
Elseenas
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Postby Elseenas » Tue Feb 05, 2002 9:36 am

Dalar:

Maybe I missed something, but if he wants to dump his equipment to the world isn't it is right to?

Is the equipment not his or is there some "guild ownership" policy I'm failing to recognize?

Editing:
You said to "drop this subject," more or less, but "this subject" is somewhat critical to the interpretation of who's equipment it is any longer.

Ban them by all means, if you feel that is necessary, but doesn't this seem a little childish?

------------------
Elseenas of No House Worth Mentioning

[This message has been edited by Elseenas (edited 02-05-2002).]
Shailar
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Postby Shailar » Tue Feb 05, 2002 9:37 am

So it appears you can't be mad with the people that kept the items, only Aryk for dumping them on the ground.. What you are doing is unreasonable. You can ask for the items, but demanding that they are given back, or you will outcast the ppl and their guild is just silly at best. People keep doing this and we will find that a lot of ppl with leave, and it will be hard to get into groups anywhere.. Someone will always have a problem with someone else.. And innocent's that just happen to be in a guild but may not have even been online at the time.

------------------
Medic Shailar Reporting
Cerlayne
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Postby Cerlayne » Tue Feb 05, 2002 10:06 am

hrmmm.. since you mention my guild by name.. as leader i feel it's my responsibility to reply for the guild... i'll start out simply.. explaining what my guild is about.. then i'll go into detail about how i feel you have no merit for your claim to blacklist us or anyone else... if you consider this a flame ignore please and have a great day...

EC is about one thing.. friends... not eq not exp not quests.. i'm not looking to be the biggest baddest guild on the mud.. i don't want that.. i'd rather have friends i can talk to have fun with over eq exp etc.. and because of that.. we tend to stick by each other.. willing to die without bitching.. giving eq to each other as we need it... if i gave a whole gawdamned wardrobe of spanky eq to someone in my guild.. guess what??? it's there's.. i gave it .. please read close.. key word here *GAVE*... i do NOT expect it back when they get better or when they go back to school or if they quit... it's their eq... freakin plain and simple to me.. shrug...

now to the other points...


1) Ephrael... hrmm he leaves for real life reasons.. it's amazing the week before he left he repeatedly told me my guild would miss him more then his own.. he felt you didn't care.. especially after you pulled the eq crap... he wanted to help out people with what he felt he had earned and was his... he was trying to cheer a few people up with him leaving... that was taken from him when people got threatened and harrassed because they found a bag of eq....

2) Aryk... didn't know bout this till i was told bout this post... a member of yours drops his eq rather then give it back to your guild.. similar to ephrael... again you (speaking as ya guild overall.. not you specifically) bitch about people taking what was willingly given to them...


conclusion.... 2 of your members would rather give their eq away then return to you... that says more about you then you could ever say about anyone picking crap up....maybe you need to tell members that any and all eq gained while as a member are not their's but your guilds... i find this post sad and pathetic.. it is not like your guild cannot get all of it back in two days... to quibble like this says alot about you... i sure hope your guild does not stand behind you.. since i have always had alot of respect for DSR as being excellent leaders and role models... if this is what DSR believes then i wholly support you blacklisting my guild.. in fact if this is how DSR feels.. i wouldn't ever want to help them out...

that being said...
peace all

Surly
Nebomosel
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Postby Nebomosel » Tue Feb 05, 2002 10:18 am

You want to ban me? Go ahead even though I had no direct contact with either Ephrael or Aryk or their respective eq. I've been on the blacklist before and probably will again. However, I do have a question. If the eq in question is "guild eq" then how do you determine who holds it all each night, who distributes it when guild members log in? If your guild's policy is to retain all eq in a guild pool, how do you allow people to rent with it? After all, they might decide to delete and poof the eq also. I've had no problems with anyone in Darkstorm before but this seriously puts your guild in a bad light if all support your post. I would love to hear the honest opinions of your guild leaders. I'll be sure not to intrude on any of your guild's future endeavors, though, as I wouldn't want to upset the eq balance in any way. I wish you luck.

Nebomosel
Lyt
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Postby Lyt » Tue Feb 05, 2002 12:08 pm

Attention!!!!!:

If I ever quit out over the duckpond, I hereby expect everyone to blacklist the said duckpond, and do not group with it because it took all of my equipment and would not return it to my guild. How selfish and ungrateful.

This is perhaps the stupidest things I have seen on here in a long time. DSR is now a guild of communists, where there is no such thing as individual property, but rather everything belongs to the "state" so to speak.

Unless there is a certain piece of eq being borrowed by a guild member for a particular group for a certain zone/time period with the express implication that it is going to be returned to the "guild pool" when that time period is over, then you have no claim on people returning any of the other gear which was dropped.

If I quit my job, does that mean that my former company is entitled to me returning every cent I ever made there just because they helped me "earn" the money in the first place? Several of the admins here are lawyers: ask them if you have any "legal" ground for something like this, and they will laugh at you.

This is the second post like this you have done Dartan. Does your guild stand behind what you are saying here? Or is it just something you believe because you personally want the gear. Lets hear from some of the other "Comrades" who want the communal property returned to the State.

I haven't read anything this funny in a long time. Give me a break already.

Lyt
belleshel
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Postby belleshel » Tue Feb 05, 2002 2:55 pm

Wow I needed a good laugh..
Thanks D Image
Yayaril
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Postby Yayaril » Tue Feb 05, 2002 2:57 pm

When and if I ever quit, I expect to do with my gear whatever I please. If I give it to the guild, great, I'm sure they'll be happy. If I drop it in the duckpond, I hope they'll still be happy. If I give it away to random people, I hope they'll be happy. Because the second Touk gave me that polkadot cloak or Dornax tossed me a wrist razor from scorps, IT'S MINE! Muhuahaa. I can do whatever I want with the gear. I don't expect anyone would give me any more stuff if I just went around wasting the gear I was given, but I hope they know that the second it left their hands, they have no more claim on it.

I extend the same respect to them. I may make wanton claims that people owe me their soul when I give them stuff, but frankly, if they go drop the gear I gave them in the dockpond, it's their choice. I'm not going to give them anymore stuff if they just toss my presents to the wind, but I'm not going to go crazy and harass the people they give it to that the items really belonged to the guild. The only thing that belongs to the guild is the people in it, and that can change on a dime. So the next time you give something to a guild member, don't expect that it will ever come back, this way you won't be setting yourself up for disappointment.

Yayaril
Galkar
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Postby Galkar » Tue Feb 05, 2002 3:29 pm

You've got to be kidding me. So, if I'm grouped with 6 or 7 random people to do a zone and get some eq, and I WIN a bid or earn a piece of eq, or even recieve it as a gift, the eq is still in some way, shape, or form property of the group? They have the right to get mad at me and ban me if I sell it off or drop it? Yeah. Right. If I get a piece of eq and it's not specified up front that it's on loan only, tough cookies pal. If I drop all of my eq on the ground like these guys, tough, it's fair game. And don't call the people who haven't returned the eq anything less than people who want eq. They have every right to keep it :P Yeah, the whole group worked hard to get that piece of equipment. Doesn't mean everyone has a claim on it even after it's been distributed :P

Galkar
draccus
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Postby draccus » Tue Feb 05, 2002 3:45 pm

I'm going to kick myself for posting to this thread, I just know it. I do it in hope Sok will post from work and make me laff my ass off!

I gave back the eq that Dartan requested from me. He was very specific and asked nicely. I've been asked like a million times why I did it. I'll explain because it seems simple to me.

It cost me nothing to do so, and I got to tell ppl I thought they played well.

This fooking stuff ppl are so worried about is a string of text on a server Miax has under his sink in his guest bathroom. I t has no real value. The only thing on this mud that we as players have that is really worthwhile is respect. So we better think more of what we do here than what text we wear. Funny thing is its hard to really know who repsects you or likes you on a anonymous thing like a mud. So it makes ones actions even more important - its how you are judged.

With that said, I agree with most of the posters. Aryk dropped his eq in a public place, he did it with slowly once piece at a time and had ample opportunity to stop and bag the best stuff for his guild or tell on player or another to fook off and leave. If you got some of his eq, more power to you - enjoy!

I gave the requested piece back because I was asked nicely. I told Dartan that I would return it to Folur because I repected Aryk as a player and know many of his guildmates. Several of whom I am sure wanted the eq. Love em or Hate em the DSR crew wrecked some zones, are smart and crafty and are good mudders in general. Giving the eq back was not sucking up, or being classy it was just respect for the few DSR folks I had grouped with in the past as another character.

If you were unguilded and quit, and yer buddy asked for the stuff nice - BAM, I would have given it back also.

BTW, Folur handled the situation on my end with much grace and patience. His generosity is pretty amazing.

bling!
Jasix Prowlingwolf
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Postby Jasix Prowlingwolf » Tue Feb 05, 2002 3:59 pm

Some one gave me an iron ration few weeks ago, I carried it about in my sack, I carried it lovingly about and showed all the other poeple that had no iron rations. They were impressed! Then the other day i was hungry so I ate it... A few hours later I was standing in a tavern when I farted, at the same time a drunken dwarf sitting close by inhaled my fart and smiled.. At this moment the person that gave me the iron ration ran in the door and stranged the dwarf screaming "Give that back I gave that to him!!"

The dwarf burped in his face and went back to his drinking.

*Careful what you wish for...*

Jasix "Born again sinick" Prowlingwolf
Rokub
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Postby Rokub » Tue Feb 05, 2002 4:06 pm

It is hard when someone quits that you grouped with as a friend, and groupmate. I for one have expressed that I feel the eq. our evil group does is in a way the rests of the groups also cause we did spend our time helping X person get that eq. I have watched many evils just up and stop playing not telling anyone. I was looking through logs on the BBS and I saw names from earlier in the wipe who disappeared to never return. That Equipment we spent our time to get is gone, yes that sux, but the player who left means 1 less sojourner. I do feel that if a player is going to quit though it is his/her decision where the eq. goes, DSR has expressed how they felt to each of the people who left, but neither cared to give the eq. to the guild. Can't do much about that.
It really sux when someone quits so I hope everyone understands that, and I think dartan is just a tad frustrated over the time he spent and his guildies spent getting that hard earned equipment. I would be too.

As a evil hearted bastard I woulda jacked the eq. like the rest of the people and showed u the *bird* cause thaz the person who I am, so I understand why others wouldn't give the eq. back.

I think i've said my peace whether or not it makes a difference so be it.

Rokub
Ashiwi
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Postby Ashiwi » Tue Feb 05, 2002 4:14 pm

Not like I group with DSR anyway, although I have the greatest respect for them, but you might as well include me in that. Kifle's one of the best people I've met on this MUD recently, and she shouldn't be punished because somebody wanted to give her something that he had every right to give.

DSR's an incredibly successful guild, with great players... why in the world would the gear of one or two drive them to the point of posting something like this? This isn't a flame to you, Dalar, but surely the rest of DSR doesn't really feel the same on this issue? It's just incomprehendable to me that the "elite of the elite," the group that has everything, the group that's capable of anything, the people that really shine, are this disturbed about a couple of sets of equipment.
Galkar
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Postby Galkar » Tue Feb 05, 2002 4:21 pm

hahaha, that's forkin hilarious, rofl!

Draccus - You made the decision to give it back. That was your choice. And you should be recognized as being a very generous person, because obviously you are. You get a lot farther if you ask nicely. Trying to "ban" someone because they decide they like the eq is NOT how to handle this. Suck it up, move on. You dropped it, tough.

Don't try and ban like this. You make enemies, and frankly it doesn't make you look good. The people who get the farthest and earn the most respect are those who suck it up and move on.

And seriously though. I've seen a ton of low level chars lately who are alts of some high level char, and DAMN, you talk about nice extra sets of eq. There's obviously plenty of eq out there to be had. Seeing someone who has a 50 warrior or something with a low lev caster alt that has a full set of eq that a 50 caster would wear shows that the eq is out there to be had.
Aderon
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Postby Aderon » Tue Feb 05, 2002 4:37 pm

I really did not want to get into this debate on the bbs but since Dartan posted, I feel I should respond. This issue happened as well when Ephrael quit. He is a good friend and he handed me twilight. This twilight was sitting on his storage character for several months. No one asked him for it to use in their guild. When he quit, he handed it to me as a parting gift. Dartan proceeded to threaten me and barate me. I was then placed on my first Dartan ban.

Now it seems I am on double-secret Dartan probation because yet another guild member of his decides to say screw you to Darkstorm and dropped eq in front of me. If you are going to drop eq at 1w, it is clear that you do not care who the intended receiver is. Thus, I am pretty sure Aryk didn't care if Darkstorm got the eq back.

First, I will explain why I kept the eq. I have a great deal of respect for many members of Darkstorm (an incredible amount for Corth now after talking to him last night about this issue). I love chatting with some Darkstorm people too. However, I feel that some people in that guild are bad influences on others. When you get them all together, the loudest voices are not the positive ones in their guild. They constantly step on people's toes in this game (i.e. A friend of mine sending tells for help on the white dragon he found only to have a few Darkstorm members walk past him and smite). You can not expect me to hand you an item that was clearly not intended for you because you were in the group that got it!

If I were to quit and hand out my eq, most likely it would go to my guild because those are the people I hang out with a lot and enjoy spending time with. Maybe the issue isn't who picked up the eq and wouldn't return it but why didn't Aryk or Ephrael hand you the eq in the first place? Aren't you guys their closest friends here? I guess not.

Furthermore, I received many tells from people when this situation began to unfold telling me to keep the equipment. Cheering me on in fact for getting myself a neat new pair of leggings. I received 3 tells about the eq. The first was from Dartan. He decided to once again take his same approach that he took with Ephrael. The Second was from Folur asking me nicely for the items and I say kudos to him. Had the situation been different, I would probably have handed him the eq but this was the second time. The third tell was from Corth who calmly discussed the issue. He explained his view point, I explained mine in rational conversation. Two of the three people involved had been curteous about the issue and had it only been them who I spoke to, my decision might have changed. But I will not be threatened by someone who is so arrogant to think that they affect my life.

I decided to give Ketroc the valhalla mask I had picked up because I didn't need it. None of my guild mates needed it. I would have handed it out to someone anyhow so I figured I might as well give it to these guys rather than hand it to someone only to find Dartan has put that random person on ostra. I don't mind if Dartan doesn't group with me. But if people I know are affected, that isn't right.

That is all for now. Any questions let me know.

Lalor/Aderon
Tanras
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Postby Tanras » Tue Feb 05, 2002 4:52 pm

This is very simple.

The right thing is to give the eq back to the guild that got it.

The greedy thing to do is to keep is and disguise your greed by claiming the right to do something.

Why people cannot see the difference between having the right to do something and doing the right thing is beyond me.

In this game and in life you will be defined by your actions and those of you who did take items should realize that if you want respect from reasonable people, the only thing to do is to return the items to those who worked for them.

Tanras
Malacar
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Postby Malacar » Tue Feb 05, 2002 4:55 pm

I disagree. Why is it the guilds eq?

I will never get into a guild probably, though I have had an invite. I play to have fun. Fun is not catering to my guilds every whim. I have the right to disagree. Obviously, Aryk had problems with his guild, or he would have handed the eq back in quiet, and none of this would have occured.

So doing the right thing is giving something back when it was dropped without a care at the fountain? If Aryk came back, and asked for it back, I could see your point. But he hasn't, and I doubt he will. I know some of the reasons why he left. I was friends with Aryk, and respected him a lot.

Don't presume to know everything, and call something right or wrong, just because you wouldn't have done the same yourself.
Dhurn
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Postby Dhurn » Tue Feb 05, 2002 5:03 pm

Shrug, in the end..I will miss Aryk and Ephrael a lot more than the EQ they gave away...they were both valued players in my eyes and I will miss grouping with them.

With all that being said tho, I can understand what Dartan is saying. In a guild where handouts are commonplace, you kinda get used to the idea that when someone no longer has a use for an item, that it will get passed down to others in the guild. Now I don't know why Ephrael and Aryk decided to leave so abruptly...maybe it wasn't as abrupt as it seemed to me, but had actually been building for a while. That is the problem with a largely anonymous realm like we are in....you cannot see the faces of the ppl you interract with on a daily basis.

Shrug, when it commes down to it....Ashiwi is right....its just EQ, and we can always go get it again. But to lose two really good players....that will hurt far more.

Mebbe Surly is right...mebbe the fact that whenever somebody leaves the guild they always give away their eq to anybody but us does say something about us....are we really such bastichs? For my own part, I just want to make sure that everybody i group with is having fun and getting what they want...if not on this run, then mebbe the next.

- Dhurn
Pock!
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Postby Pock! » Tue Feb 05, 2002 5:22 pm

Dhurn for president!
moritheil
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Postby moritheil » Tue Feb 05, 2002 5:32 pm

I do not understand this whole "eq ownership" thing. I mean, all your eq are belong to Mori, right? So how can there be such a fuss?

*ruffle*
Kifle
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Postby Kifle » Tue Feb 05, 2002 5:46 pm

This is so lame dartan, I am really sorry you feel this way, but I gave you a chance and you threw it in my face.

The first time this happend I was just having fun with eph putting eq on mobs, and what happend??! You, throughout the whole time, told me that 1. dont tell eph that i am talking to you, but tell me where you are putting the stuff. 2. ok, no? Then dont ever talk to me again! 3. Wait, I just died in a 1 person room and the key is on the inside and i just lost all of my eq!

ok #1, that is not too bad, but still if eph wanted you to know then i would have told you.
#2 that was just shitty! that is no way to treat a person for a piece of text!

#3 you flat out lied to me! that is beyond low! for one i dont think you are dumb enough to go into a zone with a hard mob that could kill a shaman with your experience and eq, two, even if you did you would not be dumb enough to keep the key on you when you went in there! and lastly i saw you the next day with all the same eq...sorry man that was just crossing the line.
(ps yeah i got a few things out of it because eph wanted me to have them because I was nice to him before this incident happend)

now with the current event...I will have to explain what heppend during capture the flag...

You came up to me and asked me to help you get the green flag in the arena, I did despite your previous actions. Then, on top of that, you later asked me to give you the flags that I had just wasted an hour getting so you could be the goodie with the most flags. and low and behold I gave them to you with a smile.

Now if you have the audacity to think that after all that, you being a prick to me then me being nice to you, that I will give you the gear the second time you are shitty to me outright when you, not ask, demand the eq back?! Dream on Dartan! You dont get second chances when all i have done is been nice to you and all i have gotten in return is "Hey give it to me or you wont get groups ever blah blah blah!" I really hope you dont treat people like this IRL.

I would like to end this by saying yeah There would have been a really big difference if i was asked nicely, preferably by another member of dsr because I think that dartan is acting more on the minority vote of the guild. I would also like to say that there are a few dsr members that i enjoy talking to a lot and i hope that they do not share the same views as dartan. I have a great respect for you and it is a shame that i will prolly never get to group with you now, but i am here to have fun.
Well, i guess it doesnt bug me much because the only person that has ever invited me to zone with dsr is....well nobody! so nothing has changed!

moral...ask and you might recieve, demand and you will get spat on and ignored!

Kifle "Guess my fingers aren't buttery after all" ButteryFingers
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Postby gordex » Tue Feb 05, 2002 5:51 pm

Many people in the guild spent many long hours obtaining that eq. To see it distributed to those that did not help Aryk get the eq is frustrating.

I can't speak for anyone but myself on this, but we made an investment in someone, and this is the return on investment we got. I know Dartan has helped us all out at some point or another in different ways, and this is the second time he feels he has gotten burned (and with good cause). I'd be willing to bet that some of the eq in question would not normally be obtainable by some of the people who picked it up. (how many times do you do manscorps in a week/month/etc.?). I don't blame some people for picking it up and keeping it (I don't know who all was involved and I'm not naming names or flaming), since its difficult for them to get it by zoning for it. I hope you realize, however, that many of us have gone into work the next morning dragging our asses, because we stayed up late the night before having fun zoning, and getting that nice eq. So to say "it's just a game, move on" is not as simple as you may think. The game is addictive, and takes up time. Like I said earlier, we have invested in people's fun, characters, eq, etc, and others are so caught up in the moment that they don't seem to give a shit.

I don't have time to find the thread atm, but someone posted roughly 3 weeks ago about mud life and how it effects you in rl. Was rather elequent from what I remember too hehe.

Gordex - Gordex Travel Agency
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Postby Zazure » Tue Feb 05, 2002 5:55 pm

*sigh*
I do not group overly often with DSR. But I do on occasion. And I like a lot of them. They are excellent leaders, and fun groups.
What I do more often is well then all over the place. (And I love the name Thug!)Which I know is no big thing, with gate/fold. But here is my rambling point. I am low on my guilds totem pole. I have no control over who is and who is not guilded. So because you do not like the actions of some of my guild mates, you are hereby banning me from ever playing this *GAME* with you again. That I find to be a shame.

I have on my body a lot of hand me down equipment. Some of my most cherished possessions came from people outside my guild. And a good part of it came from my guild. Now if I chose to leave, I might ask my guild if they wanted anything I had. Or I might simply find a level 1 druid and hand it all over. I give away all my extra eq anyways, and have been known to quest items to give to someone lower level than myself. Being a human with a brain, that is my right. I personally do not feel that my guild has rights to my equipment. Nor does Touk have rights to the Spider ring he gave me during a zone, or Gormal to the nebbie he gave me, or Lalor to the silvery sack and on and on.

Maybe I am missing the point that you are making Dalar. I am sorry, but this looks like greed from here. Yes, you might have died getting some of that equipment for Aryk. Yes, you might have given some of that eq to him yourself. But, how does that make it yours? And to ban a whole guild because of the actions of one or two seems a bit, well, like an overreaction.

But that is just my .02

Zazure


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Postby Kifle » Tue Feb 05, 2002 6:00 pm

You know gordex, i do agree with you on most of that, yeah i dont do manscorps, have once.
yeah i am going to keep it because i dont get the invites to do these zones, so now i dont have to worry about waiting for some l33t person to pick me up, even though I am a good player, and i can practice my skills and go exploreing MD like i have always wanted. it would be a whole different story if i went on zones all the time and i had the opportunity to actually get these items for myself, but for as many times as i have zoned now that would take me 5 years to get an amy, 10 years to get another set of ogrehides, etc...

I also agree that you do stay up late and drag ass in the morning, but a lot of us do because we are doing exp till wee hours of the morning to get to the lvl to do these zones and when we dont get invited that is kinda a disappointment to. so in both ways we are all draggin ass to work, now it is just paying off i guess because i chose to stay up till 3am last night and exp and when i came back! WOW it payed off finaly!

you are right, but from dartans actions and his previous actions i cannot and will not hand back this eq as long as he holds his veiws on me, my guild, and how to distribute other peoples time and effort (yeah aryk and ephrael dragged ass at work for this eq two).

Kifle " Image" ButteryFingers
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Postby Malacar » Tue Feb 05, 2002 6:29 pm

So I guess what you are saying is that... Aryk may have put in the work also, but he only gets to use the equipment, until such a time that it is inconvenient for you?

Was there an understanding between Aryk and you that this eq was simply on loan until he leaves the mud?

Does noone have control over their own stuff, to do with as they please?

I find flaws in the logic, and frankly, disagree with it entirely. If I go on a zone trip, I deserve anything I get, as long as I put in the work. After that point, it is mine. Yes, it probably would have been nice to give it back to the guild. No that isn't what he chose.

Posting something like this on the BBS is sad, imo. It's equipment. Had you not burned so many bridges, Dartan, you probably would have gotten it back no problem. This isn't a personal attack, btw, it's a statement of fact.

It's a game, get over it.
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Postby Gort » Tue Feb 05, 2002 6:46 pm

ROFL!

I thought Yaya was funny, tell me this is an attempt at dark sarcastic humor. People drop stuff or give it away, its done. You don't get to pick it up, or weren't on the gift list, bummer. Neither was I, of course I didn't expect to be.

Would be a shame if Aryk leaves...


Toplack
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Postby Aderon » Tue Feb 05, 2002 6:54 pm

Just one more small point. Out of curiosity, what was the point of making this post? If you are not going to group with the parties involved, their guilds, mothers, pets and third cousins, why should the rest of the mud care? I think you should not group with me and be done with it! I really would like to know what you hoped to accomplish by logging this and putting it on the bbs. Was the point to embarass me? Just curious.

Lalor


[This message has been edited by Aderon (edited 02-05-2002).]
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Postby Ilshadrial » Tue Feb 05, 2002 7:14 pm

Well I can see why alot of DSR was never in CS.

Words of Wisdom from Lloth to me when I was yet a young assassin just beginning to extend my claws around the great realm,

"If people see you as a snake in the grass then you are a snake."

Dartan you should take those words to heart. They will help you alot.

*fading back into vast shadows of anonymity*
Ilshadrial Tal'Vailya
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Postby Dalar » Tue Feb 05, 2002 7:17 pm

This is my opinion alone (so far). The equipment Aryk and Ephrael had was from the hard work made by DSR, not Kifle/lalor etc.

RE: Yayaril. If i was harassing them I would be bugging them everyday about it. Kifle started the conversation with me today about it. I only asked them twice each, once after ephrael and once after aryk. You know Yayaril you're right. Maybe I should just stop doing scorp earrings and all those other nifty items my guild asks me to check and shit so I can help myself.

RE: Malacar. I don't think the mud needs to know Aryk's story.

RE: Ashiwi. Again this is my opinion alone. You're right, I am disturbed by a couple of sets of eq. Who isn't though? Everytime someone loses a bid and whines, or doesn't get that handout, they're disturbed too.

I am particularly mad about the basilisk leggings. After exploring scorps for SIX hours, we end up at the end, only to have Aryk fuck up the whole zone by attacking the archlich. After that, Aryk repeatable messed up our zones by going afk habitually. I don't feel he deserved it at all, and that's why I am mad Aryk just dropped his eq. At a time Aryk was one of the best imho (like 7 months ago :/).

As for Lalor, I haven't liked him much since the beginning of beta. I knew him from Asritya and he pissed me off when he kept asking me to dupe more and more eq, which is dumb b/c u don't want to get caught. He would also ask me what class he should be and asked how to get into DSR (fyi, i don't even know how i got into DSR). What really set me off was when he said he was trying to help me and guide me because of my age. BULLSHIT. All he did was want eq in Asritya and to hang out with the top player (me). In soj3 all he wanted was to be in a guild. He never once talked to me about my life. In fact, he found out my age when Ephrael quit. He called me a whole bunch of crap and shit and that's when I blacklisted him. Then, the had the nerve to try to apologize to me saying he didn't mean it. So imho, Lalor is just one of those people who will be try to be nice to everybody to get his way.

As for Aulara/Kifle, you're right, she is a nice person from what I've seen and heard. But just listening her justify that she deserves the eq b/c she doesn't get into zone groups is just sickening.
This was even more sickening:
You tell Kifle 'hey, have u ever heard of a mob called Yan-C-Bin?'
Kifle tells you 'cant say that i have'

I've had this window open for an hour so let me sum it up.
I don't thikn I've ever hated a fellow mudder (Not even Lyt!) as Lalor. Seeing him get all that crap and doing nothing for it pisses me off. Same with Kifle.

Again this is my stand alone.
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Postby Malacar » Tue Feb 05, 2002 7:20 pm

The mud doesn't need to hear Aryk's story. On this we agree fully. I won't put words in his mouth.

But yet you post a flame against him, saying because he made a mistake, he screwed things up for you.

[This message has been edited by Malacar (edited 02-05-2002).]
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Postby Kifle » Tue Feb 05, 2002 7:37 pm

no dartan you didnt put the whole conversation on the bbs for a reason...
i also stated that i deserve the eq just as much as you do, not that i deserve it because i dont zone, i was making an analogy close to the one made on this bbs about being in a zone and not winning then when the person that won the piece of eqdecides to sell/trade/ or give that piece away, in your wierd logic that piece of eq should be poot back in the pool, the original members of the group should then get a bid on it...

no, i dont deserve it dartan, just as much as anybody else on this mud except for aryk.
he worked for it and then gave it away as he saw fit. IMO you should be more worried about aryks, and ephrael's feelings and why they quit, humans are much more important to me and them (as they have shown) than pieces of text on a computer game. i sure do think that there is a good reason, at least on ephrael's side of this matter, that he didn't give the gear to dsr. ( i wonder why that is)

so if you are going to post something dartan, pls post the whole thing and dont try to justify your own ill logic by making me look bad. in case you haven't noticed there are actually real people behind these computers and those people have real feelings.

Yeah, it is easy for me to say "let it go" because i have the gear and you dont, but that is all i can do. I have tried to apologize but that ended in an argument and flames sent back and forth. I am doing what I feel is right because if aryk and ephrael wanted you to have what was theirs they would have given it to you, and i would be doing them an injustice by giveing why I, by luck and great timing, have picked up on the road.

as for not knowing a mob name. well arrest me then, I dont know every mob in the game i dont deserve to wear the eq that it comes from...well if you ask somebody that has done Sg once and doesnt know what mob carries the emerald gaunts then do that not deserve that eq or should they be austrisized and castrated because of their lack of knowledge of mobs? Hell, i have been in zones a few times and i still dont know the mobs or what comes from what, i listen to the leader i trip, assassinate, bash, shield punch when they say and who they say, other than that i dont really care as long as i am having fun. leave the mob names to the leaders. I will do my job and that is killing and protecting...

Kifle "this is fun...isnt it?" ButteryFingers
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Postby Yayaril » Tue Feb 05, 2002 7:37 pm

The thing is, from now on, I'll think any thread with 'dragon cult robes' in the title will somehow include an equipment rant. Curse you to Avernus for calling 'Wolf!' one too many times!

Yayaril
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Postby Dalar » Tue Feb 05, 2002 7:45 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Yayaril:
<B>The thing is, from now on, I'll think any thread with 'dragon cult robes' in the title will somehow include an equipment rant. Curse you to Avernus for calling 'Wolf!' one too many times!

Yayaril</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thx for the tip off Yaya. I couldn't use sex b/c it was taken. Will think of something more clever next time.
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Postby Galkar » Tue Feb 05, 2002 7:56 pm

So what some of you are telling me, if I'm in a guild and I group with my guildmates and we go get a spanky piece of eq and I get it, then when I leave, it belongs to the guild because I was grouped with them when I got it, and they worked to get it, just like I did?

What if I grouped with people who were NOT in my guild, and we went and got the same spanky eq and I got it on a hand out. When I quit, does it belong to those people I grouped with simply because they happened to be in the group when we killed mob xyz to get it?

Tanras - Are you kidding me? Disguising greed? Laugh, right. You're getting into an issue of fairness versus generosity.

Ya know what this sounds like....

Little boy says 'I don't want my ball anymore'
Little boy drops his ball.
Little girl picks up the ball.
Little girl says 'I have a ball!'

Little boy's friend says 'My ball, I gave it to him in the first place for helping me out!'
Little girl says 'Tough! He didn't want it anymore and let me take it, so it's mine!'
Little boy's friend says 'I'm telling all my friends not to like you cuz you have cooties!!!!"
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Postby belleshel » Tue Feb 05, 2002 8:03 pm

Wait...Lalor has cooties?!
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Postby Dalar » Tue Feb 05, 2002 8:57 pm

Ok thx to some people for actually talking to me about this instead of laughing at me as an alt like a true pussy would (Pelgard).

Re: Kifle
What, u asked me to get a prism wand and I had two waiting, u never asked for it back. There is a room in the game u can get stuck in w/ your pcorpse and not be able to reenter it, key or no key. Also, I cr'd your shit from CC, big mistake. And why did i not ask nicely? I was mad, sorry i didn't use a nicer tone. During the flag quest I asked you to pick a room, that's it. The flag wasn't even there. Also, i didn't know you were Aulara at the time.
A day or two after the flag quest i did do beholders for your wands, but u never asked for them so I just assumed u had it already.

I NEVER said if u don't give it to me you'll never into groups. I have no control over Folur, Touk, Gormal, Dornax, etc. and I don't even lead so that statement is false.

Anyways, alot of the things I said were out of pure frustration Kifle. I'm very sorry that I did lie to you on some of the things (i did lose eq for a moment during that day). Also, I'm very sorry I did yell at you argue. I have taken this game to beyond the point where I was actually having fun. For some reason I felt I was obligated to play, kinda like a job. Thanks to moth and other people, I finally see that. I'm gonna try to have more fun and be more carefree. You were turning point in my discovery, so I thank you.
If you want to teach me a little more about semantics that'd be cool *halo*


Re: everybody else

I decided to ban the guilds out of anger, sorry about that and ignore it. I didn't realize how many people I actually like here are in those guilds. So yea um.. sorry ^_^", no banning guilds, just Lalor Image

As for Aryk, I never did like him after he began leaving when we did zones with pure caster eq in it, or he was afk habitually, or screwed up a 6 hour scorp run.

As for Ephrael, he never tried to connect to most of the guild (imho) on a personal level. Most of his acc was just "are we zoning now? why aren't we zoning? oh man i need this piece of eq." etc. He saw the guild as a way of getting more eq imho.

I think alot of my frustration was from some repressed anger that i felt for them when I saw them get such good eq for doing no work. Had it been Corth or Ebgar (or any of the people i feel contribute alot toward the guild) who left and dropped their eq, I don't think I would have posted here or asked for it back (from the people who got it or from the person themselves).

Why did I make the original post? b/c I wanted some advice and to let out some steam. What Yayaril said is right though: "So the next time you give something to a guild member, don't expect that it will ever come back, this way you won't be setting yourself up for disappointment."

So again, sorry showing my anger publicly.
Thanks for all your mature and interesting input (except for Lyt/Galkar), my stand on this is different that b4.
I just got a good taste of reality and morals from all of you. Thanks Image

[This message has been edited by Dalar (edited 02-05-2002).]
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Postby belleshel » Tue Feb 05, 2002 9:37 pm

Wow we almost lost you to the depths of 'this game is my life' syndrome! Thankfully you recovered just in time..it's been known to be fatal.

Welcome back, have fun,
Belle

What some people do for some worthless shiny ansi text is amazing.
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Postby Ragorn » Tue Feb 05, 2002 9:53 pm

Dartan,

This is silly.

xoxoxox,
- Ragorn
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Postby Zrax » Tue Feb 05, 2002 10:23 pm

Man you realize how out of control this thread would be if Aryk would have given his equipment to a mob that Lilthelle was trying to solo, she died, and evils came and took the kill and the equipment.

Man I wish that happened.
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Postby Sylvos » Tue Feb 05, 2002 10:50 pm

It would be in a thread called Sex in Dragon Cult robes? Sounds kinky.

Sylvos
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Postby Kallinar » Tue Feb 05, 2002 11:16 pm

And now for the 2 c from th eleader of the little goodie guild:

Blacklisting folks is a bit harsh. Image Yes they may have done things that made you angry, and you may have spent a lot of time gathering the equipment to outfit said player, but Not all people have the same morals and ethics as everyone else. I didnnot know either of the eq droppers very much, but Their decisions are their decisions. They may have been good friends, and good players, I do not doubt that, but they control their own actions in the end.

Personally I give spare eq (when I rarely have some) to guilrmates, and if they don't need it, I find the closest noob and see if I can help. My group, like Cerly's, is about friendship and helping everyone out if we can. If a member of my group quits, it is an unnerving event, but I do not chastize them or anyone else about it. Hell, when Jorrok left my group he asked me if he could have someting from our guild storage character that was on the for sale list, and I gave it to him right away because he needed it, guild member or not. He put the item in the que, but said we could keep it when he quit. But being a good friend, I willingly give out whatever is needed when I can.

The persons that got the dropped eq should not be chastized for being greedy, for many do not see it as greed, rather damned good luck to be at the right place at the right time. If your former guildmates intend on letting younger players have spanky eq, they are usually gonna get their way. Who's to say they couldn't have just made a quick noob character, switched the gear, and started tossin it around like Beads at Mardi Gras before finally quitting? You wouldn't have know it was them most likely, and then as far as you would have known, they could have just deleted altogether and poofed all the eq you so value.

Being on a blacklist got my guild down from 13 members to 5 because of bad blood spreading around thru the game. Its not a pretty thing, and I wish it upon noone else.

Its only a game and it is supposed to be fun for everyone.

I am sorry for your losses, people of DSR, and I have the utmost respect for you all, so please let bygones be bygones and carry on smartly so the people of the mud can play happly together. Image

Kallinar
Moo to you all
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Postby Teyaha » Wed Feb 06, 2002 12:38 am

Rofl!
ROFL ROFL!

DSR sounds just like the evils who tell me the item i bid on and won belongs to THEM! fuck you and the horse you rode in on. i was there, i killed the mob too, i prob died a few times, we all had an equal chance, i won it it's fucking MINE to do with as i please. i dont pay to play this game, it's free, i dont pay you for my time on this game. my time is worth approximately $65 an hour, and unless you plan to pay me that for every hour i spent in a zone getting the very few items i've even traded stfu!

however we dont know how aryk or eph got their items. perhaps it was all handouts, which in a way really is different, but as lyt pointed out and as the soviet union proved communism does NOT WORK!

both players decided to drop their shit on the ground. once it hits the ground it's free play. aryk has a story? that's fine and dandy, but he still dropped his shit on the ground.

hypocrisy is a disease on this mud, and too many of you have it.
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Postby Teyaha » Wed Feb 06, 2002 12:40 am

oh yeah dartan, and just cause a player hasnt done a particular mob over and over dont make them a crap player.

as EVERYONE KNOWS i've been on this mud going on 7 years now. i've played everything except a cleric to 46+. y'know what? i've never once done tiamat or even your precious Yan-C-Bin! and i dont feel as if i've missed out for not doing them, either.
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Postby Tanras » Wed Feb 06, 2002 12:51 am

Maybe why this I see this as black and white is because the last couple rounds of gaming I have been involved with I do truly see my eq as the guild's. I quit Everquest about 4 months ago and gave my accounts to my guild. You do not want to know how much I could have sold them for.

That eq did not belong to someone with some extra cash in his wallet, it belonged to the people without whom I never would have obtained it in the first place. Now that facts come out, it is clear that there is really one piece of eq that is disturbing.

Basilisk leggings are not equivalent to gemstone rings or eldritches or nebulae or anything else along those lines. Those leggings are things very few people obtain and those that do, deserve them, they don't pick them up off the ground.

I think everyone cares very little for most of Aryk's stuff, but when a guild puts in the time and effort to get those legs, THAT item belongs to the group, not the individual.

It is how I feel. Unless you are bidding things, you owe everyone who is with you a debt of gratitude for everything you wear. For the top items, this is even more true.

Clearly the tradgedy here is that two people left the mud. That is overshadowed by this other crap, but in my mind, those leggings. . .and any other eq of equivalent value, should go to the group that did that zone. Keep the flamby for yourself.

Tanras
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Postby combatmedic » Wed Feb 06, 2002 1:12 am

Childish...but funny.



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Aram the novice paly
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Postby Sylvos » Wed Feb 06, 2002 1:43 am

Why is this still being debated after Dartan apologized for the post, and thanked people for helping him calm down?

Sylvos
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Postby Galkar » Wed Feb 06, 2002 2:29 am

We wanted to see how long it would take you to post Image
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Postby Nokie » Wed Feb 06, 2002 2:49 am

Hi. Who are you?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Teyaha:
as EVERYONE KNOWS i've been on this mud going on 7 years now.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



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Nokie 'No you don't!! That belongs to me!' Quickfingers

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