Wall Elites (or lack thereof)

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lanik
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Wall Elites (or lack thereof)

Postby lanik » Thu Apr 04, 2002 5:12 am

Hi,

I'd like to talk about the wall elites situation in WD. There are two problems, as I see it:

1) D2 made this an area which falls under the justice system, whereby numerous snitches are placed strategically along the walls to report any innocent activity. This change, as i understand it, was orchestrated in order to encourage players to seek experience outside of Waterdeep.

2) killing wall elites now reduces your pretiege, further making the area unsuitable.

OK. What's wrong with people going outside of WD for experience? There really isn't much out there aside from smoke (For casters) and the Pirate Ship, which good races must share with evil races.

So people are forced out of WD to compete with the evils, often creating hostile situations as players fight over limited resources.

Subsequently, you have a player base with less options in which to level their characters, which in some cases, has led to them leaving the mud.

Another nuisance: getting a group together (which can be a painful task due to the limited number of key classes, e.g. enchanters) waiting 24 minutes for the ship to arrive, only to discover that there are already two groups on the ship. So one is left with the choice of being exceedingly cheesy and weasling in on their pops, thereby incurring enmity, or leaving the ship with a discoraged group, who in all likelyhood will logoff for the evening.

All of these problems simply because certain people don't like the wall elites; grudges held long since toril, I imagine.

What you fail to realize is that this isn't hurting the veteran players, who manage one way or another to gain levels, irregardless. It is however hurting the newer players, or the older players who don't have the time they did back in college when they first started playing Soj1.

Yes, reversing this policy of shutting down wall elites might lead to some powerleveling, however, for the most part, I believe that it'll encourage more people to play the game; a game with 1/3rd the player base of Toril, I might add.

-Displeased

[This message has been edited by lanik (edited 04-04-2002).]
Yayaril
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Postby Yayaril » Thu Apr 04, 2002 6:32 am

I can think of a lot of places one may go to get experience post 40. Ship and smoke isn't even that great of experience compared to many other places.

Yayaril
lanik
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Postby lanik » Thu Apr 04, 2002 6:38 am

Such as?

Other than tf, jot grid...
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Postby Jegzed » Thu Apr 04, 2002 7:24 am

Tower of High Sorcery
Duergar Settlement
Moonshaes (Wizzies&Castle)

They were the most popular exp-places in soj2, which lacked pirateship and smokeplane.
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Postby rylan » Thu Apr 04, 2002 1:50 pm

And if you've got some time, temple of blip has rockin xp.
belleshel
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Postby belleshel » Thu Apr 04, 2002 2:17 pm

What!? We have to leave a HT to exp now? What is this mud coming too...
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Postby Karikhan » Thu Apr 04, 2002 2:36 pm

Let's see .. you dont want to leave WD, you dont want to compete with evils .. you don't want to take the time to get groups together??

What world are you living in??

And you say there is NOT much outside WD?? ROFL!!!!! Get off your ass and explore!!!! Make friends that will help you in the eventuality of a CR (if you explore it WILL happen)


-Ambar Squish Squid
Koldaz
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Postby Koldaz » Thu Apr 04, 2002 3:29 pm

What does anyone care if someone wants to sit on wall elites and do experience? After going through two pwipes and losing equipment and levels which I invested tons of time into getting, I do not want to do experience. I want the experience to be as quick and easy as possible, the administrators willing. The most fun in this game comes at or near L50 after having obtained a large portion of the top gear.

Why the problem with wall elites? Gimme a break. And if somebody doesn't want to go out and explore, why force them? Justice is a crock. And if the administrators are so worried about HT experience, gut DK. Make the mobs in DK shout so guards come running and smack the players dead! Make the mobs in the troll HT shout. Those troll guards are the best experience, far better than wall elites will ever be.

Also, do you consider doing ship/tower/shaes experience, exploring? Just the same as doing wall elites. And if they want us to go out for experience, why then do they make the experience in some of the zones close to useless. HP and TF used to be awesome experience (it was too high when they were first put in), but then after they FIX it the experience in those areas become useless.
No wonder people don't bother going out for experience when its adjusted so that for the time invested you get zero.

My thoughts which are completely useless.

Koldar/Koldaz

[This message has been edited by Koldaz (edited 04-04-2002).]
Guest

Postby Guest » Thu Apr 04, 2002 3:37 pm

There was so much wrong in the initial post in this thread I'm not even sure where to start. Maybe I'll just say that, on one of the largest MUDs (in terms of areas/rooms) in existence, if you can't find anywhere to XP, you're clearly not trying very hard.

--D2
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Postby Dirjornso » Thu Apr 04, 2002 4:44 pm

D2, How about making the DK area bigger in terms of places to go without water breathing for levels 20-30.. considering drow are blind in daylight I would like to see a few sections added to the area where people could exp Image I find that the drow warriors I know get frustrated with having to kill soldiers from level 18 to 28 before they can really get an invite to ship(worries of death) that and I would like to see the ruins updated Image make it useful.
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Postby gordex » Thu Apr 04, 2002 5:41 pm

Lanik,

Put the crack pipe down please!


Gordex - Gordex Travel Agency
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Postby Baikalisan » Thu Apr 04, 2002 6:41 pm

I cannot believe somebody even posted about this. If you cannot find xp other than wall elites then you have a serious problem!

There are like 250+ zones on this mud, go find a little one nobody ever hits and 2 or 3 friends and xp in it till you get bored enough to go find another one.

Thats whole point of the game anyways, explore have fun enjoy
How fast an individual levels has nothing to do with it.

buckup
lanik
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Postby lanik » Thu Apr 04, 2002 7:21 pm

"There was so much wrong in the initial post in this thread I'm not even sure where to start. Maybe I'll just say that, on one of the largest MUDs (in terms of areas/rooms) in existence, if you can't find anywhere to XP, you're clearly not trying very hard.

-D2"

What is wrong with the post?

Do You deny that justice makes this area near impossible to xp in?

Do You deny that you now lose pretige for killing wall elite?

Please enlighten me as to the error of my logic.

As for the rest of you. Wizzies aren't that great, Tower xp is more for mid levels IMHO, Duergar camp? Yah, pain in the ass to get to UD just for XP, having to kill that stupid ogre for one. HP was ruined for an xp zone, as any paladin can tell you. Smoke is for casters. I've heard that Blip sucks for XP from several sources.

The dificulty in getting groups is that so few people play enchanters, and half of them don't want to do most zones, they want to go solo smoke with an cleric, or an invoker.

So i often find myself relying on secondary classes e.g. elementalists and druids, in order to put together groups.

No, i know how to get experience, I have 2 50th lvl characters, My point is that many don't, and are struggling.

People like Dizahk and Mplor for instance, who don't have the time they had in previous whipes are still 30th lvl, or so. Might not they be playing now if only they had a week or 2 of wall elites? Who's to say. So that leaves the MUD with 2 less leaders, and as a consequence, the current leaders get burnt out and will eventually leave due to the load they're expected to carry in the absence of other leaders.

I think the points i raise here are shared by many on the mud, and I'd like to hear some constructive analysis, not idiocies like "get off that pipe."
Yayaril
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Postby Yayaril » Thu Apr 04, 2002 7:31 pm

If the enchanter has a cleric or an invoker, how does he 'solo' smoke?

Yayaril
lanik
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Postby lanik » Thu Apr 04, 2002 7:37 pm

I mean 2 man group, disagreeable rogue
Jegzed
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Postby Jegzed » Thu Apr 04, 2002 8:05 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by lanik:
As for the rest of you. Wizzies aren't that great, Tower xp is more for mid levels IMHO, Duergar camp? Yah, pain in the ass to get to UD just for XP, having to kill that stupid ogre for one.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tower MIDLEVEL? Are you freaking nuts?
Archmage, Blackmage, Goldie, Guardian, Rogue & Large are all 53+ (or same level range as the good ones at ship.) Not to mention the spectres/golem.

I've leveled multiple 46+ character (2 enchanters of them even) on various incarnations of this mud, and 90% of the exp I've done have been at tower, shaes and duergar settlement. Yes, pirateship might be slightly better, but saying that this exp sucks is just plain stupid.

And claiming that duergar settlement exp is hard to do is ridiculous. Its a simple speedwalk from wd, and with absolutely NO need to kill Goortok if you know what you are doing.

/Jegzed
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Postby belleshel » Thu Apr 04, 2002 8:38 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by lanik:
<B>
Do You deny that justice makes this area near impossible to xp in?

Do You deny that you now lose pretige for killing wall elite?

Please enlighten me as to the error of my logic.

As for the rest of you. Wizzies aren't that great, Tower xp is more for mid levels IMHO, Duergar camp? Yah, pain in the ass to get to UD just for XP, having to kill that stupid ogre for one. HP was ruined for an xp zone, as any paladin can tell you. Smoke is for casters. I've heard that Blip sucks for XP from several sources.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's not an exp area anymore, you should lose prestige for killing the lawful defenders of this well respected (for goodies) town. You heard Blip sucks? maybe you should investigate, its mobs actually have the highest exp per mob ratio for any exp area. If someone told you Brass gear sucks you'd never go to see for yourself? Image
Maybe these people are purposely keeping the exps to themselves?....
Do a who 50, exps is far far to easy already on this incarnation, there are no wipes, lots of folks already have 2-3 40+ chars.
If anything exp should be slower, mplor is still low level because he doesn't spend much time here this wipe, we should change the dynamics of the mud so he can be level 50 already? Image...People will listen if he posts, I haven't seen him say anything about the exp rate. They've been adding features to the mud that make exping easier all the time as well.
Exp is a right of passage of sorts, it helps teach folks how to play a class, play in a group, how to fight certain mobs.

Belle

If you can't figure out how to exp, you certainly shouldn't be zoning. I just love the people that sit on their hands in WD saying the mud has nothing to offer, or exping is hard.
lanik
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Postby lanik » Thu Apr 04, 2002 10:04 pm

It amazes me that people can't dissagree with my point of view without personally insulting me or attacking me.

However, i'll try to address some of the rebutal points:

1) Tower is good for very small groups, with more than 4 people, the xp is too thin and no appreciable gains are made. The same can be said of wizzies. Ship and wall elites, however, offer gains for larger groups. They are on a higher order of magnitude.

2) yes, i'm not suggesting that we drastically alter the mud to accomidate part time players, however a happy medium might be reached by reopening wall elites. Balance it by instituting an insanly high trophy.

Clearly, there is little simpathy for this argument, so I will not further distract the BBS from such grave matters as they may wish to discuss. Direct all further flames to your congressmember.

Good day
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Postby Shargaas » Thu Apr 04, 2002 10:23 pm

You have me to thank for the negative prestige on wall elites (as well as most prestige on mobs). I did put a lot of thought into that, it was not done just to spite the morts. Why?

a) There are plenty of places for people to exp
b) Wall elites still reward the same exp
c) There are very few ways to lose prestige atm
d) One quest session would reverse the prestige loss

Consider that some people are passing 10k prestige while others have 5k. Do people feel this is misguided?
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Postby Nokie » Fri Apr 05, 2002 12:44 am

On a different topic:

Nokie got the killing blow on Tiamat and only got 1 prestige point. I'm not complaining, mind you, we got tokens - but I think the prestige code changes for exp may need some tweaking if killing Tiamat doesn't yield anything special prestige-wise.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Shargaas:
<B>a) There are plenty of places for people to exp
b) Wall elites still reward the same exp
c) There are very few ways to lose prestige atm
d) One quest session would reverse the prestige loss

Consider that some people are passing 10k prestige while others have 5k. Do people feel this is misguided? </B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



------------------
Nokie 'No you don't!! That belongs to me!' Quickfingers
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Postby Mplor » Fri Apr 05, 2002 1:10 am

Hehe, I think I can safely say that the wall elites of WD have not had any effect on my level (32!). All the same, I don't see a problem with wall elites. Players who never learn the rest of the mud pay for it when they leave WD for the first time and try to find a zone group. Not everything has to be hard-coded.
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Postby Yayaril » Fri Apr 05, 2002 2:30 am

I'm with Nokie on that one, but mostly because I got the killing blow on her as well. More prestige to us!

Yayaril
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Postby kiryan » Fri Apr 05, 2002 3:45 am

has anyone tried to do hp exp since classless mobs were given an exp boost? it may not be as shitty as we remember.
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Postby Xebes » Fri Apr 05, 2002 3:57 am

Those of us who have are keepin' the secret to ourselves, Kiryan. :-)

There's a number of places where the exp is as good or better than where everyone flocks to.

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Postby cherzra » Fri Apr 05, 2002 7:25 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by lanik:
[BDuergar camp? Yah, pain in the ass to get to UD just for XP, having to kill that stupid ogre for one.
[/B]</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You don't have to kill him, there are other ways. Bloodstone is some pretty good xp too.
Guest

Postby Guest » Fri Apr 05, 2002 8:08 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by kiryan:
has anyone tried to do hp exp since classless mobs were given an exp boost? it may not be as shitty as we remember.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

- The exp given for lowlevel un-classed mobs has been substantially increased. This will hopefully help new players level up a tad easier, as well as make the solo exp grids a little more desirable at low levels.

That's the news entry on classless mobs. Note the "lowlevel". I personally have found HP to be good exp in 2-man groups well into the 40's, but doing classed mobs.

It also strikes me as a bit strange that the person who was saying they were having a hard time getting people for a group was also saying that you couldn't bring large numbers of people to tower for exp. Wouldn't that better fit your criteria, if it's hard to find people?
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Postby Shargaas » Fri Apr 05, 2002 10:47 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">On a different topic:

Nokie got the killing blow on Tiamat and only got 1 prestige point. I'm not complaining, mind you, we got tokens - but I think the prestige code changes for exp may need some tweaking if killing Tiamat doesn't yield anything special prestige-wise.
</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Expect most of your prestige to come from those wacky quest gods, all other sources are secondary. But it is also desirable to provide a source of prestige for those who have not bee involved with god-run quests.

Tiamat gives out much more tangible prestige than tokens.. only 3 people have gotten that killing blow so far.
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Postby Gormal » Fri Apr 05, 2002 11:31 pm

exp on sojourn has never been meant to be easy. deal with it.
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Postby moritheil » Sat Apr 06, 2002 10:11 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by cherzra:
Bloodstone is some pretty good xp too.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Either you know a lot I don't, or pardon me while I laugh. I've done BS with a group recently, and while I got > for exp after 2 hours, most people didn't notch.

So... it MAY be good xp, but not for the undiscerning consumer.
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Postby cherzra » Sat Apr 06, 2002 10:27 pm

Stay out then, leaves more XP for others...

Cherzra first evil warrior to 50, but apparently clueless on XP

[This message has been edited by cherzra (edited 04-06-2002).]
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Postby torkur » Sat Apr 06, 2002 10:32 pm

You only got 2% there? *boggle* Wow, I know of mobs there you get 2% per kill on ..... Hell, if the groups decent (level 40s) just kill the watchers and hooded executioners. BS is one of the best hometowns in the game.
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Postby Rausrh » Mon Apr 08, 2002 1:52 pm

Perhaps you need to move off of the slave platform? Image



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Postby groguk » Mon Apr 08, 2002 2:16 pm

bloodstone is one of my favorite places to go so if you guys dont like it there thats fine by me less people killing what i want to kill
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Postby Sarell » Wed Apr 10, 2002 10:46 am

OMG!!!
You lose prestige for killing wall elites?
I was sure the tribe was going to give me a medal for slaying so many of those snidey arrogant WD bastards!

ROAR

Ladak

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