Meet Caz, the leading loot whore of Soj3

Archive of the Sojourn3 General Discussion Forum.
Gromikazer
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Postby Gromikazer » Thu Apr 11, 2002 9:15 am

I don't think Todrael could have said it much better actually. Some situations are different then others.

P.s. slightly to the point, but will prolly fan the flames, Caz.. you did not spend 12 hours there. You were not there for the 5 hours of spanks before hand, you got there in time to mop of some of the consorts before moving onto the baby reds. This was the main thing that made me give the scepter to gyrx because he was there all 13 hours.

Second, Dornax, I clearly stated what my plan was on a post on the board in dk. Everyone that was coming new i was passing out 4 items (though i passed out 5 because i added 15 to the pop). If someone didn't want to do tiamat because of the way I wanted to do split, it would have been no problem. There were 8-10 other people that wanted to go as well, i could have called on.

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Gromikazer Terrorforge -Veldruk- Orbdrin D'oloth
Ilshadrial
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Postby Ilshadrial » Thu Apr 11, 2002 11:41 am

Can someone explain to me why the leader of tiamat thinks they should claim so many items?

It is not LIKE you guys put any work or prep time into killing her this wipe, YOU DON"T HAVE TO ANYMORE!!!! PENDANTs are not necessary and the fact you need the other people from guilds to kill her. (Well maybe after she is updated)

Perhaps you guys should make it a GUILD only trip and see how far you go, I think that would rock, then there would be no bitching right?

Now, I can relate to Tiamat runs that require masive PREP time, I did Tiamat over 17 times with Crimson Sigil, and on my 10th run I actually had the ISHA cloak handed to me for my devotion. The ISHA cloak was always the one item that was no bid when we went to tiamat, and everyone knew it up front, everything else was bidded via the Kurz Equal Distrubition Act (tm).

So perhap you guys should only select one item for hand out and the rest equal share bidding.

I do have to agree I think the leader of the evil tiamat group did a fine job by putting in sets of spanky eq for his members to help with the handing out of items. I mean a surtur corwn was given out, people drool over that item. I definatly would not have bitched if I got the crown, heh.

Anyway my point is why do leaders feel they still need to hand out "most of the eq" if it is just not their guild present, do you think your time is more important than that the other mudders? Well boyzzzz, it's not.

I remember leading tiamat with Mplor, it was a blast, and I must say, killing her was worht more than the EQ, at least until she was dead *snicker*.



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Gort
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Postby Gort » Thu Apr 11, 2002 1:43 pm

Hell, I just have fun going to new and exciting places, meeting strange and unique peoples..... and killing them.

The fact that I get to loot some of the bodies afterwards is just beer money.

Toplack

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kiryan
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Postby kiryan » Thu Apr 11, 2002 2:35 pm

jegzed
>I didn't even know Caz was in the 2nd tiamat group.. I was there for 6hours killing dragons in Avernus and dieing repeatedly, and never saw Caz around. You must have joined for the final consorts.

i admitted this in my original post, i believe i was there for the killing of the red sentry, but i didnt have my log turned on initially.

>CC and OD have led the tiamat runs, of course we'll make sure our warriors have the scepter before we hand it to a psilk harvester..

umm the psilk thing again. let me reiterate, never traded one especially not to a goody, given the ones i have to evils who didnt have them, i keep a couple spare to give out when i run into someone who needs one. many of those that i have given them to are my rl friends or my guild members or their alts. targsk makes a point of doing psilks for evil casters over 41, why do i get a bad rap for doling out psilks? btw where is all the gear i get from trading psilks? i assume the price is still fairly decent?

ambar
>it has been said before, and will again ... if you don't like the way the eq is split, lead it yourself!!!

yes i agree, and have agreed and posted the same damn thing numerous times.

>as far as regular zoning and eq splits ... it friggin comes in time people ... be patient! you see the same people in the zones .. eventually it will be your turn to get the choice item ... i have never and WILL never have heartburn over eq splits ... if it is your 15th trip to a zone without getting anything .. wow .. you will probably be next!

yea ive held to this ideal and still do. im starting to be disallusioned with it for a couple months, so i been talking to a few people (in the last week) who make decisions regarding splits. i was trying to find out if there was some reason why i dont seem to get great eq in split. i was also trying to let them know that i thought i should start getting some of the top gear rather than always the hand me downs. i never bitched about eq split or said i shouldve gotten some piece.

>i think part of the reason i get into the groups i do is this .. i keep my mouth shut .. i listen and learn .. i do as i am told .. i dont go afk unless it is an emergency and i talk to the leader in private about it

same, i do as im told by the leader. few things you could chide me on, i had a hardon for rescuing warriors took a lot of flak over that, but no leader ever told me to stop. couple times when a leader was approaching a fight in an interesting manner, i suggested we do it a different way. couple times i even did this over gsay instead of tell (and at least one time it was by mistake, and one time it was because i told him and he gsayd some shit).

the worst aspect about me is my shitty connection. i dont go afk in zone. if im having conenction problems (they usually come in 1 hour spurts) i let the leader know before hand and suggest he find someone else. if im in zone and i get it i let the leader know and ask him to replace me if he wants.

>Caz i fully believe you felt it necessary to bring your perception of a problem to the BBS ... BUT ... man you shouldnt air dirty laundry here!! keep it to the confines of the evil world ... within our city's small boundaries ..

its not like i got pissed off at tia split (which again i am not) and went and posted on the boards how i shouldve gotten piece x. im posting here because i was publicly singled out by miax for ruining a good tia trip with greed. Im posting here because after talking to miax for shaming me publicly, he left me with the impression that he didnt believe me and that numerous people held the same view point. i wasnt about to try and chase down every single person on the mud and try to talk to them because thats a lot of typing and doesnt reach nearly as many people imo. i also didnt want to put miax in a position of revealing names of my accusers to me.

>I was there BOTH trips .. i saw everything that happened .. and i also saw an AWESOME leader say he didnt want to lead anymore for a few months because of how people bitched about the eq split ..

umm, yea thats fucked up. i dont want to be associated with that kind of thing. i didnt bitch at the leader about split. but heres some extra info ive seen the same leader threaten to and i think actually take breaks on 2 previous occasions. i suppose it was my fault then too. so if you dont believe me , ask him personally if he felt that i bitched at him about eq split. i did and i also asked him if he considers me a loot whore, and he responded in the negative. he basically said he mentioned my name and a bunch of people jumped on the caz is a loot whore bandwagon.

>and you didnt mention the fact that YES some items went to the other guilds .. the diced items werent even mentioned except in passing ...considering the fact that there are like 5 or 6 great items from the run .. and 30+ people go .. its pretty friggin hard to decide who gets what... and in MY opinion it is the leader who doles out eq ... i say it again .. dont like how the eq is split ... lead it yourself ...

bull shit, first, i didnt really talk about tia split period cept to say that i by no means thought i was more worthy than the 2 people who got scepters. i posted where every piece of tia eq went to my knowledge (i missed hole from thursdays trip) and which guild they were affiliated with and didnt say shit besides that. as far as i know, the only piece taht went to a non OD or CC member was the hole won by dajenken who is Xserreellex who is a member of my guild. however, i do not know the disposition of Thursdays hole nor the 2 sets of bard drums. and all this guild talk is shitty, i hoped guilds would not be a negative think for the evils, and the guild i have is solely about friends not eq or power.

but now since im going to get bagged on for stuff i didnt say about tuia split, ill say some shit that will really get me in trouble. regarding cleric crown, lucuduzur > syssok? wtf, we all bag on sok and spanks and dice, but im sure you can count the leaders that have lead more zones than him in soj's history on less than two hands, the clerics on one. there are more knowledgable leaders and less spank prone leaders, but his contribution has been large and by appearances overlooked/ignored. my theory, cc brought 1 cleric to thursdays trip and he wanted boots. other cc clerics would be able to make the saturday trip, but od would be doing the split. but i didnt say any of this shit in my original post because it wasnt about the tia split, and im happy for lucuduzur that he got cleric crown. i simply listed what went where for your own inspection.

gromi
>I will lead zones, and people can complain all they want. I split as fairly as I can. If you REALLY think my splits are completely off base and unfair, why don't you try sometimes, instead of complaining about the current leaders. I WOULD LOVE more people to lead, while I enjoy it, I don't enjoy splitting eq. Playtime is not a indication that you are due for a eq item. If that was the case.. I want more items.

hey i have lead, i have split i posted that. i dont think i said you or anyone else was unfair let alone a split being unfair. i also posted my biggest fuck up and shame as a leader. id love to lead but i got connection issues and i know that. i never said my playtime was an indication of me deserving items, but i think ptime is at least indirectly a factor. As far as your playtime, when i had 30 play days and you had 55ish play days i said to you wow your eq is sweet. thats all i said while we were chilling around fountain, then you said something like so is my playtime of 55 days. your eq at 55 days crown and armor of conquest, vermillion sleeves, dual razors, dual diamondines, gyth, twilight other misc shit. my eq of note at 55ish days is surtur, almost a crown of conquest, roots belt (stole from my wife), skullsmasher (given to me by my wife). i by no means think we should be equal because i dont work as hard as you do nor do i play the prime times, nor do i think ptime means shit. and you guys can pick apart my post all you want, but im trying to draw a picture for you.

>In regards to tiamat, Miax allowed the evils two runs, because the goodies got two runs. It has been closed for buisness until miax says its ready again.

nod, thats the rumor i heard saturday, but i havent seen any posts, announcements or anything. Id like to know what you need to do to be privy to this kind of information. I wonder how the people who were allowed to lead were picked. they probably picked themselves by talking to the gods ect announcing on the boards, ect. thought player god interaction was basically frowned upon. it wasnt exactly common knowledge that evils would be allowed only 2 tia trips in the immediate future, but it wasnt exactly a secret. I knew some shit was up when it was made known that tia didnt require pendants and her ass wasnt being bagged every weekend. Again ill point to the interesting timing of the thursday trip. So anyhow, sok announced his trip thursday after being unhappy with split. what will be done? i dont think it really matters, with all the friends ive made with this thread, i doubt he will have enough support to do it. especially if hes going to give a piece of tia eq to an undeserving wretch like me.

jegzed
>People that have been around for very very long and have good skills will always be thought of ahead of others.

fair enough, i think i was 36 ish as my first ever character on soj1 when duris split. Year wise, i think and i dont really have any reference points to nail down my start, i started back in october of 95. as far as zone knowledge, im pretty sure ive been to every zone at least 10 times with few exceptions like spiderhaunt/hydra and the newest ones. ive got a rescue trigger set just like every other warrior. i actually took the time to max all my zone related skills like shieldpunch and rescue (how many warriors bothered to do that with shieldpunch?). i wear a shield with keywords in the name to theoretically enahnce my sp % while most warriors, if they bother, wear shields that have a bunch of damroll. i think im good enough, im not great, im not elite, but i think its enough. autobash trigger and my connection are probably the biggest areas for improvement. ive fucked up pretty bad before, i havent been given the opportunity to do some things like tag krialda, clear the second part in roots, ect.. but i dont think anyone has ever told me how to do something and i wasnt able to do it. i rarely make the same mistake 2x.

>And I UTTERLY despise you and the others who went out of your way to complain to Gromi after the split. He LED the fucking zone for 13 hours..

im glad you can despise someone with out bothering to talk to them personally. i guess herse is better than giving a person a chance to explain themselves. btw, why dont you ask gromi if he thought i was bitching or complaining to him about split. gromi please post the logs or back me up on this or cut me down if im putting words in your mouth. let me ask you this jeg, i ever bitch about an eq split to you? how is it that you know i did it to grom? or do you really know? am i really worth despising?

zoldren
>I did tia, and I do alot of zones... how do you think other people feel when people who where afk during most or during important parts of the zone W/or W/Out saying anything, and they get eq and others dont? or they get something better? especialy when they are the only or one of the main people relyed on in those zones?

hmm, again this is a connection problem that i cant easily fix. ive been trying. during the few days of tia, we had rock solid connections. We completed all of tia with lazz on thursday before starting to lose link during dragging corpses / split. On Saturday, we were rock solid all day until tia was on the low side of PH, then it was up 1 minute and down for 10 minutes for the next 3 hours. All i can say is sorry, had it been acting up earlier, i wouldve bowed out or not even gone.

>I have seen you and your partner lvl up to 50 basicaly just you two, ignoring to help others because you two were exping or you wouldnt get something out of it so you wouldnt help, you have gotten better about that.. but still.. the fact is you basicaly shunned people over xp and eq.. and that didnt leave a nice taste in there mouth... maybe they remember or maybe they just forget about you..

yep i did that, ill do it again anytime i lead an exp group. isnt this kind of like bitching about split? i didnt get any exp invites when i was new, i asked to join groups and was refused by every sort of people. i took the time to make an exp group, so excuse me if i turn down folks especially ones that never talk or help me or only logon their alt when i start a exp group. Also, remember back then it was fuking impossible to get people to do exp since there were no enchanters no clerics no shaman and i did who cleric for hours hoping one would logon and spend 40 minutes running up to ship so we could exp for an hour before they had to go. knock me all you want for that, but everyone does it especially elite folks.

as far as the not getting something out of it so i wont help, you must be referring to when i had it out with someone over gsay in that ship group (after having it out with him over tells). i hadnt seen this someone do shit cept ask for help kill rares and doing quests that he wouldnt comment on (this was when who evil was consistently less than 10 people). so i tried to test him. i asked him if he was going to do bids. know what he did, he threw a fit and said that i wasnt shit, he didnt need me, i could expect to never get anything in zone from him, and that he found the rare he checked for it and he wasnt going to give it to someone else who hadnt done anything at all cept show up to kill. i dont like people who think they are all that, i dont like being used. i realize that this was stupid of me to bait him like that, and i pulled the same shit on another person one time and had it blow up in my face. i since made amends i think with both folks, however, i still do tests, recently i found zog and asked for someones help to whom i wanted to give it too, he asked me who it was for i told him i was going to give it to a friend of mine who wasnt present to help and he whined about how that person had 2 on an alt eventually he did come around. i wasnt super impressed, but i never had to make that decision because my rat bastard friend sobu fuking killed yasmine.

rachaz
>Just to make a quick post: Technically you did get one of THE BEST items in the tia zone even though it does not load there. I did not get an item from doing that zone, nor do I care. Being in the zone and dicing the helm was enough. However, I thought it was amazing of Gromikazer and Lazz to do that thing with the hole. I never expected such a thing to happen nor should have anyone else. I looked into the hole Gromikazer dropped and realized it was his own eq not just passed down items. Lazz also added items to his pot.
In summary, you did get one of the best items. I know plenty of other evil raced warriors including myself that are actively seeking that crown. Also, I was on that run where Gromikazer got the Skullsmasher that he gave to Inesa and you now have. He had been checking jot for quite some time. So not only did you get one of the best items but a second item out of Gromikazer's own equipment. Others walked away with nothing but the experience.

nod, i never complained about the split or said it was unfair. i think i posted too much peripherial stuff as evidence and my intent got lost. I was very pleased to receive surtur. relatively however it is the hand me down. i was further estatic to receive skullsmasher from inesa. btw, she waited until everyone had picked shit out and rented to ask for it and there was nothing left that was of any use to her, and i was in a 5 man group slaying kosty one time when she went psycho crazy cut the phone line (adsl) in half and made me leave to go visit her friends. it has always been my favorite weapon next to the old twilight.

>I just want to say, I like Caz. I think he is a good guy to talk to. But for the life of me, I can't imagine what brings people to make posts like this. tNone of he issues you listed are "public" issues.

dood, its public when someone ooc's you were the #1 dunce in ruining a tiamat run with greed. furthermore, i talked to miax directly abuot what he said (though i apparently missed his apologies) and he told me to deny what was said and that he had been told by numerous people how bad i was. The ONLY person i talked to during the whole tiamat trip regarding split was gromikazer (and again i didnt talk to him really the about tia split, but splits in general). After tia trip up until the OOC stuff, the only person i talked to at all about tia split or how i was feeling about splits in general was Krolb. I was actually thinking i was making some headway at getting people to consider that maybe i was being overlooked. You know what else, a couple weeks before i had an unsolicited conversation with an outspoken CC warrior regarding my eq. he said some stuff to the effect of it was ridiculous that i didnt have some basic shit like diamondines and it was past time for me to get that kind of stuff.

todrael
>You are a loot whore.

ouch

>1) You state yourself that Gyrx and Gura are just as deserving, if not more so, than you.
>2) You state you were upset when they got it.

did i state that i was upset, i dont think so. i certainly didnt say that to gromi. mildly disappointed id say. no worse than when your number doesnt come up in a dice.

>3) You state in many places throughout your post that you constantly ghost, go linkdead, or keep completely quiet during a group.
You are, frankly, completely unreliable in zones. Your usefulness to a zone is only so much that you are actually at the keyboard, connected, and paying attention. If you are assigned a bash, you have to be there at that second to read that, and to do it. I have found that often, you are not.

ouch tod, while the reality of that is true due to poor ISP, i am NEVER afk in zone. i need to get a better connection, i need to get a new keyboard. to call me completely unreliable i think is very harsh. i am often silent in zone but i think im rather good at following directions when im not having connection issues.

4) You state false information, and in many cases unknown information.
You didn't even know the stats on surtur when you got it, and you were complaining. You had to ask people for two identify scrolls. You said you were going to give the surtur to Sobu. There were many people in that group that don't feel you even deserved the surtur. You were afk or linkdead for many of the consort fights, you weren't there for the 7 hours (that's right, these 'spanks' you rather gloss over in Avernus lasted for 7 whole hours) we spent dying beforehand. You didn't deserve an item that powerful, and you still stated discontent.

i knew roughly what stats are on surtur before i got it, its pff !summon 3 hitroll sense/farsee -8ss from memory. ive had surtur before. the ids were so i could refresh it and make a choice. probably many of you think im stupid because i cant decide which is better surtur or glammad, but i have different motivations. how many people you know that wear amulets of discord? that shit has awesome ac and great SS i wear 2. i have 1/2 earrings that i gave away to friends because i wear tgs for awesome ac and hitroll. I have seashell, so i dont need !summon, i dont really need farsee or sense life cept rarely. so excuse me if i had to ponder whether i wanted to give up hit/dam eq that was also 6 svb for 3 hitroll sense and farsee and envy. Ultimately i kept it because it makes good !summon eq for my cleric/shaman and my hitroll was a little too low. that and sobu seriously has wet dreams over surtur, i may someday give it to him for all the shit he did for me in years gone but dont know, depends how my AC/SS/HR/HPS work out as i acquire other eq.

5) There are so many contradictory statements in the same sentence or paragraph within your posts that I am completely boggled that you could possibly believe half of what you're saying.
You say you think you didn't deserve a scepter as much as Gura or Gyrx, then you ask the leader why you didn't get it. You say you don't always deserve the best items, then you wonder why you don't always get the best items. You say you ask the leaders why they don't give you what you want (when you don't even tell them what you want!), then you wonder why they don't like to deal with you. Fah. There were many more examples, frankly, my head hurts just reading them all.

umm tod i think you are exaggerating here. first, i didnt ask leader why i didnt get scepter. thats ranges from a gross interpretation to an outright lie. i asked him "why dont i get any respect in splits". that was followed up with me expressing my observation that i NEVER (not dont always) get best piece of eq from a zone, not this zone, not last zone, but in systematically over multiple months (unless everyone in group already has it). i dont tell leaders what i want because evils do handouts, if leader doesnt know what i want or what i need he should ask me. leaders get enough fukin tells during split, i dont need to add to it. splits are fukin stressful, ive done them, ive watched sok do hundreds of them. i certainly dont whine about splits (until this thread, and i didnt even mean this to be a whine about splits).

6) That deal with the rare on Smoke.. You say you completed the quest, and that you didn't know the quest?!
WTF! For your information, that shaman you refer to has been looking for that specific mob for the last month or more, every single boot, every single day for two separate people that he has promised to assist with it. You show up and 'claim' it like that, then tell him you not only don't know the quest, not only have one already, but that you're just going to give it away, I can assure you he'll be slightly upset with you.

ok you fucked this one all up buddy. first, i dont give a fuck if that shaman been looking for the last 7 years, whomever finds it finds it. whoever gets the first group there to kill it owns it. thats the same shit some warrior pulled on me the FIRST time i found zog, gimme the necklace i been looking for it for a long time (he already had one, i didnt). also, just because i found a rare doesnt mean im going to keep it, but i think it entitles me to the right to pass it out, especially if i get a group to do it. As for me showing up to claim it, my wife found it, i told sok to get the group we were in to smoke to kill it. I had something like 7 people in my group from before boot (mostly guild members) wandering smoke looking for other the mob so we could fold over and kill it long before, i think, anyone else was even up there. We even found physically find the mob before anyone else did. And i dont have the boots from that rare, i have a different set of boots from a quest that a group communaly completed with the expensive relatively hard to acquire eq coming from my character when I had no idea what the end result was but just wanted to finish the quest. had i known i prolly would not have done it because the ac and hitroll on the smoke boots are far better and the quest is far cheaper than the elf boots. and yep, i didnt even fucking know the quest, but i let me ask you this, how the fuck am i supposed to learn it unless i search for the same rare and try to kill it and try to complete the quest? So i should kill it then give it to someone else to quest? Or should i give in to people who pull the im not going to help you unless you give me dice on this rare or flat out give it to me? is that respectable behavior? i think you are completely off base here and basically defending loot whorish behavior.

7) You say you constantly tell the leaders how you feel negatively about the split.
Have you ever said how you feel possitively about the split? Have you ever said that it was a good run, you had a good time, and that you don't really need any eq? Have you ever said that they did a good job? Have you ever given them so much as a pat on the back? I certainly didn't hear any of that from you at any time, to anyone. Is it any wonder they don't like dealing with you when all you exude is negativity?

bullshit, i do not constantly tell leaders i feel negatively about splits. basically i havent hardly said shit to any leader about any split until about 10 days ago, and even then i didnt complain about a specific split but made some general statements. why? i decided to stop being silent and start talking to leaders more about splits because i kept thinking that it might be my turn but it never was. i have not bitched at a leader about split, but i am starting to ask them this question, why is it never my turn to get the best piece of eq from a zone (any zone). Have I congratulated leaders on good and bad trips, sympathized with them. hell fucking yes, do i do it every time no because when i say it i want it to be special and i really mean it, not just sucking up. Do i chat with people and leaders on the mud about random things, of course.

8) I didn't deserve the Isha, and I don't deserve the arch-magi staff I have right now.
I tell this to anyone that asks me who got what from the split. I didn't contribute as much as others. The only thing I have going for me is dedication to the game. This being the case, I made sure people got items they wanted even if they didn't come from Tiamat. I gave my fireweed away, I gave a charm bracelet away, and I put a flaming staff of the magi in the pot, which I got back at the end. I have not one piece of eq that I can't use in some fashion on my one character, Todrael. 95% of the zones I go to, I do so just because I want to equip other people. If you went in with the same mentality, You wouldn't bitch about not getting your damn items.

i repeat still not bitching about getting "my" damn item. your awesome tod, i highly respect you for your dedication to the game and your opinion most of the time, but i think you have me all wrong. i must be a horrible communicator. anyhow you gave a lot of shit away rad, wouldnt have made a different if you hadnt imo of you. I think i can say that i have one piece of eq that i dont use on my main, Caz, but then again i style myself as a tank and wear hp gear. I do have a couple small pieces that i carry to give out to other people, things like onyx rings, tgs, bolty circlet, psilks, azurites. i aint going to try and compare what youve given to the mud and the evils to what ive given, but that doesnt mean i havent given anything. everyoen does what they can in their own ways. i think i go in with the same mentality, and i keep repeating this that im finally starting to say something after pondering it for at least the last 2-3 months. i wasnt saying it on the bbs, i was saying it to a couple specific people and it got perverted and blew up in my face ended up on ooc and spread like wildfire the same way the basless rumors about me trading psilks did (again i ask you to show me where all the eq is that i get from trading psilks is).

>Not to mention the possibility of you multi-playing with your wife's character.
Or the Fact that you have shared your characters between each other at several times in the past, which is strictly prohibited by the multi-playing rules.

god i cant believe i pissed you off so much that you would lash out like this. im not going to deny it because there is some truth to what you say, but this has absolutely nothing to do with this thread yet you went out of your way to attack me with it. fyi we have been tested on a few occasions for multiplaying and have passed every time. we have also been tested for botting and were at the keys every time. i have more than enough access to sites and knowledge to setup scripts and firewalls and linux boxes to multiplay if i so desired. i had 6 people mudding from the same internet connection in the days of mystra and the rules are far more relaxed now. but speculation and rumours and accusations will abound. this was a low blow, and I'll add this, though it sounds very hipporcitical, people that live in glass houses should not throw stones.

gura
>all i have to say is psilks are not little things. u say u have 3 of em layin around well shit..i know about 20 casters who could use them. why trade them to goodies? its not just you but i have seen you numerous times in gloomhaven at boot doin the major parts of it. I'm not saying you're the only one who does it cuz one of my own guildies had one posted on the wd board recently but i still dont understand why?

oof, i have never traded a psilk let alone to a goody. yea i have 3 of them lieing around to give away to people that need them. partial list of people ive given them to, zissar, cajur, sobu, gonac, kiryanna, dosarilog, myself, inesa. im not sure how many others i gave away i dont keep a list. if any evil needs a psilk let me know, i keep a couple spares to hand out.

baik
>I unfortunatly didnt' get to attend either Tiamat slayings by the evils, rl was too busy on Thursday and on Saturday well..i heard it was canceled so i didn't show up till too late. I tell ya tho.. You go to Tiamat, you bring 30 ppl with you you have approx 5 peices of eq.. Do the math.. Its a pretty good chance your not going to get anything.. Let alone the 2 best things awarded to yourself and your wifebot!

why must you all slander my wife. trash me now you trash her. what is it that i have that you are all so jealous and envious of? thats really fucked up, what did she ever do to you all. and i dont know what the fuck your talking about the 2 best items going to us. she picked one item from the hole AFTER everyone else had taken what they wanted and rented. i was asked if i wanted a Surtur and i responded in the affirmative.

>You made the comment that when Sok leads Tiamat that you'll get what you want, well the way that looks to me is your damning everybody for what they do and how they do it and yet your turning around and doing EXACTLY what your accusing others of doing. Practice what you preach.

hmm, you know this is one of those lose lose. people tell me that if i didnt like split (which i never complained about) go lead it yourself. you get someone to lead it for you people say that your a hipocrite. and truthfully i didnt say shit to sok about split tia or anything, he sent me a tell out of the blue and said im going to lead tia next saturday which piece you want. one of the influential people i did talk regarding my feelings about splits told me that i needed to get sok to stop doing bids and start protecting me like it appears everyone else does. i told him i would never ask sok to do something like that and i think the choice sok brings to the evils is awesome though i personally support handouts. id like to also say that numerous evils wouldnt follow sok when he switched back to doing bids instead of handouts after he had a bunch of trouble gathering for zones (he posted about it on the boards even). the interesting thing was they refused to follow him to zones where they had eq from but followed him to invasion. i asked one in particular about the hipocrisy in a that particular incident and he said, come on man its invasion. like that is somehow different. i dont like protectionism, i dont want sok running around using folks to get his friends eq. i wanna play the game and get rewarded in zone for coming, playing well, and having a good attitude.

>I cannot believe you or anybody else would even go into a situation like Tiamat and be upset because you didn't get the peice of eq you wanted and somebody else did! "Mommy!! little Timmy stole my scepter!" c'mon act your age not your shoe size

bleh, come on baik not once in this whole thread did i complain about not getting scepter or complain about the split. if i did copy the line and post it.

>As for your little this guild gets more and what they dont get this one gets which leaves every other guild out in the cold attitude... oso lame

umm, i never said that shit either. i dont remember where i said any evil guild got more than their fair share of eq in tia split or any other split. stop making me out to be someone im not.

tasan
Cry me a river of golden tears...
"I went to tiamat and all I got was this stupid crown"

fuk, again with this same shit? im happy with my crown. i love skullsmasher. i didnt bitch about split.

>Kiss all of our asses who've been here just as long as you, who would take the opportunity to go as part of the experience of playing the game.

yea and like i said i went figuring i wasnt going to get anything. if there was no eq at tiamat id still go, so pipe down.

>I wish there were more people like Tod around, and less of you people that consider this game something to get upset about.

really, miax was apparently at least a little upset about tiamat reportedly turning into a greed fest, does your idiotic comment apply to him or only people who get upset about eq? and like i got upset about eq, im upset because i got my ass jumped and turned into a posterchild over some simple non abusive questions/statements i sent one person which were misconstrued and perverted and gossiped at lightning speed resulting in a public shaming of me. this whole thread got turned into a caz bitched about tiamat split when i did no such thing. also saint todrael obviously gets very upset regarding this game, did you see the shit he said about my wife? or did you think that was somehow relevant to this thread rather than just lashing out at me in whatever way he thought could do the most damage. also, check the bbs he gets upset every once in a while and has posted some rather caustic shit on the bbs. who are you kidding.

todrael
>A chance. That's all anyone wants. I would agree with that. The problem is, you believe that chance exists at split time. This is true of dicing. But for handouts, here are some guide lines.

umm not at all. thats why i fully expect the next trip, assuming i even get an invite, to result in someone other than me getting scepter because there are lots of folks that been here longer done more than me and have better skills than me. that was in my original post also. i can just hope that someday im the lucky guy for whatever reason that gets the best piece of eq from a zone.

>The real chance to get eq exists in every day mud life. It exists when you manage -not- to miss any bashes you were assigned, -not- go linkdead or ghost.

yea ive missed bashes before ive had happy triggers bash when they shouldnt a couple times. the only bashes i can really think ive ever missed are in cc, and i was actually quite pissed last trip because i seemed to be missing a shit load of bashes and i couldnt figure out why. perhaps it was the snakes fucking around with tailsweep. ive tried to fix my connection, so far no dice, i do my best to work around it and play responsibly.

>It exists when you don't like the split, but accept it -anyways-, and say 'next time, perhaps.' It exists when you do the zone and say you had a great time.

fuk man, i accepted every split ive ever been involved in. i had beef one time about a bid i gsayd that got left out of the dice and i got an apology because the leader missed it. i didnt demand that they redice or anything. i dont bitch when folks are getting their 2nd and third gemstone or gray greens while i got none, i dont even say shit, im just patient and hope that someday i get that kind of stuff. ive never turned down a zone group unless i didnt have the time or the energy. ive never quit a zone group. basically i dont quit groups period, i got yelled at one time for refusing to leave an exp group that i had asked to join for another one. his point was how selfish i was for denying another group a tank. my point was i dont quit groups when something better comes along. while i have left groups to do things like zone, i try and stick to my principle of not leaving for something better.

ive enjoyed every zone ive been in. ive said it a few times to folks privately. im not in the habit of saying gee that was fun after every zone, because gee every zone is fun.

>It exists when you decide soloing or 2 person groups (Caz/Inesa) can be put off so you can do the required job for zone groups.

wtf is this? i play to zone, i dont turn down zone groups. ive never been anon (though my alts are). i rolled up a shaman and a cleric so in those situations we could still zone (which at the time were frequent). i absolutely fucking abhore doing exp. ive never heard anything bad about inesa except one time when she was rushing off to help someone with a cr and didnt stop to fly someone who asked her as she passed by.

>It exists when you look past the guild titles to the actual people behind the keyboards. It exists when you stick with it, day after day, zoning just to zone, spending time with every group that forms.

im not going to ignore titles and affiliations, but i do judge and interact with each person individually. i stick with it, ive been here. only break ive really taken since starting in august was the 3 times i flew back to the states to visit my parents. I post consistently on the boards, some of them are stupid and antagonistic, but a lot are my opinions of how to make this a better game.

>The chance exists in your every action, day in and day out. Just because you sat in front of your monitor for 12 hours on one particular day, and typed some commands, does not entitle you to even the remotest chance at a reward. At the least, it shows raw effort, which is only one aspect of many.

agree.

>I don't want Caz or Inesa to leave the mud, or become discouraged. I want their actions and words to show worth and value to our community as a whole. Really, I just want to play the game, and have fun. You should too.

dont worry ill be around. im not upset at the split, im not upset that i dont have things like diamondines. im upset that you all think im a bad person or a greedy one. im upset that no one had the courtesy or respect to say shit to me and would rather just talk behind my back and eventually end up on ooc. im very upset atm that you all would take shots at my wife.

gromi
>P.s. slightly to the point, but will prolly fan the flames, Caz.. you did not spend 12 hours there. You were not there for the 5 hours of spanks before hand, you got there in time to mop of some of the consorts before moving onto the baby reds. This was the main thing that made me give the scepter to gyrx because he was there all 13 hours.

oof, i didnt try to indicate i was in the group there for the whole trip on saturday. i was online for the whole trip saturday minus 40 minutes (i knew i shoudlve doublechecked the time), but didnt join you guys until the last avernus run where we cleaned house and ventured onto mountain (half the trip?). i was appreciative that you thought highly enough of us to bring us up when doubtless there were people who wanted to go. I believe the part i was referring to was the time we spent together doing tiamat on thursday that you had forgotten during split even though i mentioned it to you during the drag. and i didnt complain to you one bit about that either because i wasnt complaining about split and like several people pointed out whether you sat in front of the keyboard for 12 hours doesnt make you any worthier to get the eq. i think the tells went something like

gromi says scepter to gyrx
you tell gromi, why dont i ever get any respect in splits?
gromi tells you i gave it to gyrx because he died 30+ times and went on both trips
you tell gromi and like i didnt? (hmm that sounds bad, my intent here was not to say that i deserved it as much as gyrx or that we were equal but more the shock that he had forgotten that we had gone thursday)
gromi tells you you went thursday?
you tell gromi yes for the whole trip
gromi tells you you want surtur?
tell gromi yea, who wouldnt... (plus i think something to the effect of that this is again the secondbest)

and that my friends somehow lead to me being called scapegoated as the greediest bitch alive and person who ruined tiamat and almost made OD disband.

also, had gyrx not even attended half the first tiamat trip or the beginning of the second trip i still wouldnt have felt that i deserved it more than him nor would i have conducted myself in any other way.

ill go back and check for details and edit, but i really wanted to get this post out.

[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 04-11-2002).]
Rausrh
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Postby Rausrh » Thu Apr 11, 2002 2:47 pm

Shevarash, you can't make sweeping blanket statements like that without any supporting evidence. How can you expect to sway anyone to your side of the issue with vague unsubstantiated comments?

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Rausrh licks you.
kiryan
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Postby kiryan » Thu Apr 11, 2002 3:10 pm

thanks ragorn, but i really would like to hear what you have to say.

thanks for the comfort cherzra, perhaps my mistake was in thinking that i was ready for stuff like diamondines too early. if thats it then i simply wanted someone like gromikazer, lazz, krolb ect to tell me that, because i honestly think that im worthy. biggest reason why? i was diced with gura for diamondines twice (by jaz and gromi) and lost both times to him back in november and december i believe. both leaders promised to give me diamodine on our next trip. but i really havent brought this up to them (actually jaz been pretty scarce) and i just wait in silence for my day. shrug
Zrax
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Postby Zrax » Thu Apr 11, 2002 3:44 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by kiryan:
and i just wait in silence for my day. shrug</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Please tell me this was your idea of a joke, if it was hillarious, if not still hillarious but in a far different way. Hey cherz if I ever officially decide to quit you can have my diamondine, lightning earring and greygreens.
belleshel
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Postby belleshel » Thu Apr 11, 2002 4:02 pm

I've never seen a clearer case of someone that should be physically restrained from mudding for a few months for his own well-being.
Galkar
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Postby Galkar » Thu Apr 11, 2002 4:35 pm

Nearly everyone here sounds like my 10 year old brother and his friends fighting over who gets to play on the PS2 next :P

You guys keep the popcorn, I'm taking my beer somewhere else.

G

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Todrael
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Postby Todrael » Thu Apr 11, 2002 5:18 pm

Yes, this was my very first Personal flame. Your posts upset me quite a bit. I mentioned to others that posting you multi-play made me feel bad about not mentioning some others I also believe multi-play, but that's just all the dirty crap people don't talk about in public. Besides, I know you do multi-play.

Leader group-says 'caz s'
Inesa flies south.

I've always been strange that way, about bringing things up that everyone else just keeps quiet (this particular event is still talked about sometimes). You asked if you were a loot whore, and I said yes. If you didn't want to know how I felt, you shouldn't have asked. And yet you're still hurt? Heh.

On another note, your style of discussion is very lacking, I suggest taking a class or two on logic or argumentation. You don't get your point across very well, even in your latest post it still seems incredibly self-contradictory, so I'm not going to try to figure out the true meaning of it all.

-Todrael
thruar
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Postby thruar » Thu Apr 11, 2002 6:18 pm

Er.. It's all my fault for claiming the beer mug on the first Tiamat trip which resulted in this long thread Image
Blung
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Postby Blung » Thu Apr 11, 2002 6:33 pm

In conclusion, "I don't like half of you half as well as I should like; I like less than half of you half as well as you should deserve." --Mr. Bilbo-- (LOTR)


Blung take no prisoner.
Elseenas
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Postby Elseenas » Thu Apr 11, 2002 7:36 pm

kiryan:

Two observations.

1) You are taking this far, far too seriously. This is a game. I presently am taking time off from the game (will be back after finals in a few weeks) and it will continue without me. Zones are run without me, life goes on, and it will all still be there when I come back.

2) You lack the competency to hold a debate of this nature. I don't know whether it is language, or logic, or what it is that escapes you but there is *something* in this that you have never gotten.

Take some time off and come back after things have cooled down and you have a greater perspective on what this game means to you.

-- Amenha --
Caedym
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Postby Caedym » Thu Apr 11, 2002 10:09 pm

Like Shevy said,

Blah blah blah, blah, blah blah BLAH blah blah! Blah blah blah blah ba-baba-blah.

Blah me? No no no, Blah you! Cuz blah blah blah blah blah and Blah has more blah then blah blah blah.

You post like a blah blah blah, and your blah is so blah blah blah that I can't blah a blah blah blah you blah blah. Blah blah?

QUICK IMPERSONATION BLAH!

I'm upset so, but I don't know how to argue or even write a half-thought out grammatical statement so I'll just throw a lot of words up on the screen to prove my point!

BLAH AM I?

You blahwell know who blah blah blah!


Caz, stop posting. Seriously. You’re just digging yourself a deeper hole. Let all the wanks jump in and have their little 2 cent rant on you and what not, even if half of it has nothing to do with this thread. This thread will die down in a week when the next topic for personal outlet comes up.

It’ll pass if you just shut the hell up and let it die out all-blah-blah-blah-ready.

Todrael, Todrael, Todrael. Are you honestly trying to blah blah blah on a rational level after all that initial blah blah blah?

To hell with popcorn, the Cheeto’s and Mountain Dew are MINE! Don’t mess! I got a popcorn-eater shpork with a +9 against popcorn-eaters!

Try and stay out of my Blahzness, cause it’s my Blahzness.

Thank you, have a nice day! Image

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Guest

Postby Guest » Fri Apr 12, 2002 1:30 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by kiryan:
<B>jegzed
>I didn't even know Caz was in the 2nd tiamat group.. I was there for 6hours killing dragons in Avernus and dieing repeatedly, and never saw Caz around. You must have joined for the final consorts.

i admitted this in my original post, i believe i was there for the killing of the red sentry, but i didnt have my log turned on initially.

>CC and OD have led the tiamat runs, of course we'll make sure our warriors have the scepter before we hand it to a psilk harvester..

umm the psilk thing again. let me reiterate, never traded one especially not to a goody, given the ones i have to evils who didnt have them, i keep a couple spare to give out when i run into someone who needs one. many of those that i have given them to are my rl friends or my guild members or their alts. targsk makes a point of doing psilks for evil casters over 41, why do i get a bad rap for doling out psilks? btw where is all the gear i get from trading psilks? i assume the price is still fairly decent?

ambar
>it has been said before, and will again ... if you don't like the way the eq is split, lead it yourself!!!

yes i agree, and have agreed and posted the same damn thing numerous times.

>as far as regular zoning and eq splits ... it friggin comes in time people ... be patient! you see the same people in the zones .. eventually it will be your turn to get the choice item ... i have never and WILL never have heartburn over eq splits ... if it is your 15th trip to a zone without getting anything .. wow .. you will probably be next!

yea ive held to this ideal and still do. im starting to be disallusioned with it for a couple months, so i been talking to a few people (in the last week) who make decisions regarding splits. i was trying to find out if there was some reason why i dont seem to get great eq in split. i was also trying to let them know that i thought i should start getting some of the top gear rather than always the hand me downs. i never bitched about eq split or said i shouldve gotten some piece.

>i think part of the reason i get into the groups i do is this .. i keep my mouth shut .. i listen and learn .. i do as i am told .. i dont go afk unless it is an emergency and i talk to the leader in private about it

same, i do as im told by the leader. few things you could chide me on, i had a hardon for rescuing warriors took a lot of flak over that, but no leader ever told me to stop. couple times when a leader was approaching a fight in an interesting manner, i suggested we do it a different way. couple times i even did this over gsay instead of tell (and at least one time it was by mistake, and one time it was because i told him and he gsayd some shit).

the worst aspect about me is my shitty connection. i dont go afk in zone. if im having conenction problems (they usually come in 1 hour spurts) i let the leader know before hand and suggest he find someone else. if im in zone and i get it i let the leader know and ask him to replace me if he wants.

>Caz i fully believe you felt it necessary to bring your perception of a problem to the BBS ... BUT ... man you shouldnt air dirty laundry here!! keep it to the confines of the evil world ... within our city's small boundaries ..

its not like i got pissed off at tia split (which again i am not) and went and posted on the boards how i shouldve gotten piece x. im posting here because i was publicly singled out by miax for ruining a good tia trip with greed. Im posting here because after talking to miax for shaming me publicly, he left me with the impression that he didnt believe me and that numerous people held the same view point. i wasnt about to try and chase down every single person on the mud and try to talk to them because thats a lot of typing and doesnt reach nearly as many people imo. i also didnt want to put miax in a position of revealing names of my accusers to me.

>I was there BOTH trips .. i saw everything that happened .. and i also saw an AWESOME leader say he didnt want to lead anymore for a few months because of how people bitched about the eq split ..

umm, yea thats fucked up. i dont want to be associated with that kind of thing. i didnt bitch at the leader about split. but heres some extra info ive seen the same leader threaten to and i think actually take breaks on 2 previous occasions. i suppose it was my fault then too. so if you dont believe me , ask him personally if he felt that i bitched at him about eq split. i did and i also asked him if he considers me a loot whore, and he responded in the negative. he basically said he mentioned my name and a bunch of people jumped on the caz is a loot whore bandwagon.

>and you didnt mention the fact that YES some items went to the other guilds .. the diced items werent even mentioned except in passing ...considering the fact that there are like 5 or 6 great items from the run .. and 30+ people go .. its pretty friggin hard to decide who gets what... and in MY opinion it is the leader who doles out eq ... i say it again .. dont like how the eq is split ... lead it yourself ...

bull shit, first, i didnt really talk about tia split period cept to say that i by no means thought i was more worthy than the 2 people who got scepters. i posted where every piece of tia eq went to my knowledge (i missed hole from thursdays trip) and which guild they were affiliated with and didnt say shit besides that. as far as i know, the only piece taht went to a non OD or CC member was the hole won by dajenken who is Xserreellex who is a member of my guild. however, i do not know the disposition of Thursdays hole nor the 2 sets of bard drums. and all this guild talk is shitty, i hoped guilds would not be a negative think for the evils, and the guild i have is solely about friends not eq or power.

but now since im going to get bagged on for stuff i didnt say about tuia split, ill say some shit that will really get me in trouble. regarding cleric crown, lucuduzur > syssok? wtf, we all bag on sok and spanks and dice, but im sure you can count the leaders that have lead more zones than him in soj's history on less than two hands, the clerics on one. there are more knowledgable leaders and less spank prone leaders, but his contribution has been large and by appearances overlooked/ignored. my theory, cc brought 1 cleric to thursdays trip and he wanted boots. other cc clerics would be able to make the saturday trip, but od would be doing the split. but i didnt say any of this shit in my original post because it wasnt about the tia split, and im happy for lucuduzur that he got cleric crown. i simply listed what went where for your own inspection.

gromi
>I will lead zones, and people can complain all they want. I split as fairly as I can. If you REALLY think my splits are completely off base and unfair, why don't you try sometimes, instead of complaining about the current leaders. I WOULD LOVE more people to lead, while I enjoy it, I don't enjoy splitting eq. Playtime is not a indication that you are due for a eq item. If that was the case.. I want more items.

hey i have lead, i have split i posted that. i dont think i said you or anyone else was unfair let alone a split being unfair. i also posted my biggest fuck up and shame as a leader. id love to lead but i got connection issues and i know that. i never said my playtime was an indication of me deserving items, but i think ptime is at least indirectly a factor. As far as your playtime, when i had 30 play days and you had 55ish play days i said to you wow your eq is sweet. thats all i said while we were chilling around fountain, then you said something like so is my playtime of 55 days. your eq at 55 days crown and armor of conquest, vermillion sleeves, dual razors, dual diamondines, gyth, twilight other misc shit. my eq of note at 55ish days is surtur, almost a crown of conquest, roots belt (stole from my wife), skullsmasher (given to me by my wife). i by no means think we should be equal because i dont work as hard as you do nor do i play the prime times, nor do i think ptime means shit. and you guys can pick apart my post all you want, but im trying to draw a picture for you.

>In regards to tiamat, Miax allowed the evils two runs, because the goodies got two runs. It has been closed for buisness until miax says its ready again.

nod, thats the rumor i heard saturday, but i havent seen any posts, announcements or anything. Id like to know what you need to do to be privy to this kind of information. I wonder how the people who were allowed to lead were picked. they probably picked themselves by talking to the gods ect announcing on the boards, ect. thought player god interaction was basically frowned upon. it wasnt exactly common knowledge that evils would be allowed only 2 tia trips in the immediate future, but it wasnt exactly a secret. I knew some shit was up when it was made known that tia didnt require pendants and her ass wasnt being bagged every weekend. Again ill point to the interesting timing of the thursday trip. So anyhow, sok announced his trip thursday after being unhappy with split. what will be done? i dont think it really matters, with all the friends ive made with this thread, i doubt he will have enough support to do it. especially if hes going to give a piece of tia eq to an undeserving wretch like me.

jegzed
>People that have been around for very very long and have good skills will always be thought of ahead of others.

fair enough, i think i was 36 ish as my first ever character on soj1 when duris split. Year wise, i think and i dont really have any reference points to nail down my start, i started back in october of 95. as far as zone knowledge, im pretty sure ive been to every zone at least 10 times with few exceptions like spiderhaunt/hydra and the newest ones. ive got a rescue trigger set just like every other warrior. i actually took the time to max all my zone related skills like shieldpunch and rescue (how many warriors bothered to do that with shieldpunch?). i wear a shield with keywords in the name to theoretically enahnce my sp % while most warriors, if they bother, wear shields that have a bunch of damroll. i think im good enough, im not great, im not elite, but i think its enough. autobash trigger and my connection are probably the biggest areas for improvement. ive fucked up pretty bad before, i havent been given the opportunity to do some things like tag krialda, clear the second part in roots, ect.. but i dont think anyone has ever told me how to do something and i wasnt able to do it. i rarely make the same mistake 2x.

>And I UTTERLY despise you and the others who went out of your way to complain to Gromi after the split. He LED the fucking zone for 13 hours..

im glad you can despise someone with out bothering to talk to them personally. i guess herse is better than giving a person a chance to explain themselves. btw, why dont you ask gromi if he thought i was bitching or complaining to him about split. gromi please post the logs or back me up on this or cut me down if im putting words in your mouth. let me ask you this jeg, i ever bitch about an eq split to you? how is it that you know i did it to grom? or do you really know? am i really worth despising?

zoldren
>I did tia, and I do alot of zones... how do you think other people feel when people who where afk during most or during important parts of the zone W/or W/Out saying anything, and they get eq and others dont? or they get something better? especialy when they are the only or one of the main people relyed on in those zones?

hmm, again this is a connection problem that i cant easily fix. ive been trying. during the few days of tia, we had rock solid connections. We completed all of tia with lazz on thursday before starting to lose link during dragging corpses / split. On Saturday, we were rock solid all day until tia was on the low side of PH, then it was up 1 minute and down for 10 minutes for the next 3 hours. All i can say is sorry, had it been acting up earlier, i wouldve bowed out or not even gone.

>I have seen you and your partner lvl up to 50 basicaly just you two, ignoring to help others because you two were exping or you wouldnt get something out of it so you wouldnt help, you have gotten better about that.. but still.. the fact is you basicaly shunned people over xp and eq.. and that didnt leave a nice taste in there mouth... maybe they remember or maybe they just forget about you..

yep i did that, ill do it again anytime i lead an exp group. isnt this kind of like bitching about split? i didnt get any exp invites when i was new, i asked to join groups and was refused by every sort of people. i took the time to make an exp group, so excuse me if i turn down folks especially ones that never talk or help me or only logon their alt when i start a exp group. Also, remember back then it was fuking impossible to get people to do exp since there were no enchanters no clerics no shaman and i did who cleric for hours hoping one would logon and spend 40 minutes running up to ship so we could exp for an hour before they had to go. knock me all you want for that, but everyone does it especially elite folks.

as far as the not getting something out of it so i wont help, you must be referring to when i had it out with someone over gsay in that ship group (after having it out with him over tells). i hadnt seen this someone do shit cept ask for help kill rares and doing quests that he wouldnt comment on (this was when who evil was consistently less than 10 people). so i tried to test him. i asked him if he was going to do bids. know what he did, he threw a fit and said that i wasnt shit, he didnt need me, i could expect to never get anything in zone from him, and that he found the rare he checked for it and he wasnt going to give it to someone else who hadnt done anything at all cept show up to kill. i dont like people who think they are all that, i dont like being used. i realize that this was stupid of me to bait him like that, and i pulled the same shit on another person one time and had it blow up in my face. i since made amends i think with both folks, however, i still do tests, recently i found zog and asked for someones help to whom i wanted to give it too, he asked me who it was for i told him i was going to give it to a friend of mine who wasnt present to help and he whined about how that person had 2 on an alt eventually he did come around. i wasnt super impressed, but i never had to make that decision because my rat bastard friend sobu fuking killed yasmine.

rachaz
>Just to make a quick post: Technically you did get one of THE BEST items in the tia zone even though it does not load there. I did not get an item from doing that zone, nor do I care. Being in the zone and dicing the helm was enough. However, I thought it was amazing of Gromikazer and Lazz to do that thing with the hole. I never expected such a thing to happen nor should have anyone else. I looked into the hole Gromikazer dropped and realized it was his own eq not just passed down items. Lazz also added items to his pot.
In summary, you did get one of the best items. I know plenty of other evil raced warriors including myself that are actively seeking that crown. Also, I was on that run where Gromikazer got the Skullsmasher that he gave to Inesa and you now have. He had been checking jot for quite some time. So not only did you get one of the best items but a second item out of Gromikazer's own equipment. Others walked away with nothing but the experience.

nod, i never complained about the split or said it was unfair. i think i posted too much peripherial stuff as evidence and my intent got lost. I was very pleased to receive surtur. relatively however it is the hand me down. i was further estatic to receive skullsmasher from inesa. btw, she waited until everyone had picked shit out and rented to ask for it and there was nothing left that was of any use to her, and i was in a 5 man group slaying kosty one time when she went psycho crazy cut the phone line (adsl) in half and made me leave to go visit her friends. it has always been my favorite weapon next to the old twilight.

>I just want to say, I like Caz. I think he is a good guy to talk to. But for the life of me, I can't imagine what brings people to make posts like this. tNone of he issues you listed are "public" issues.

dood, its public when someone ooc's you were the #1 dunce in ruining a tiamat run with greed. furthermore, i talked to miax directly abuot what he said (though i apparently missed his apologies) and he told me to deny what was said and that he had been told by numerous people how bad i was. The ONLY person i talked to during the whole tiamat trip regarding split was gromikazer (and again i didnt talk to him really the about tia split, but splits in general). After tia trip up until the OOC stuff, the only person i talked to at all about tia split or how i was feeling about splits in general was Krolb. I was actually thinking i was making some headway at getting people to consider that maybe i was being overlooked. You know what else, a couple weeks before i had an unsolicited conversation with an outspoken CC warrior regarding my eq. he said some stuff to the effect of it was ridiculous that i didnt have some basic shit like diamondines and it was past time for me to get that kind of stuff.

todrael
>You are a loot whore.

ouch

>1) You state yourself that Gyrx and Gura are just as deserving, if not more so, than you.
>2) You state you were upset when they got it.

did i state that i was upset, i dont think so. i certainly didnt say that to gromi. mildly disappointed id say. no worse than when your number doesnt come up in a dice.

>3) You state in many places throughout your post that you constantly ghost, go linkdead, or keep completely quiet during a group.
You are, frankly, completely unreliable in zones. Your usefulness to a zone is only so much that you are actually at the keyboard, connected, and paying attention. If you are assigned a bash, you have to be there at that second to read that, and to do it. I have found that often, you are not.

ouch tod, while the reality of that is true due to poor ISP, i am NEVER afk in zone. i need to get a better connection, i need to get a new keyboard. to call me completely unreliable i think is very harsh. i am often silent in zone but i think im rather good at following directions when im not having connection issues.

4) You state false information, and in many cases unknown information.
You didn't even know the stats on surtur when you got it, and you were complaining. You had to ask people for two identify scrolls. You said you were going to give the surtur to Sobu. There were many people in that group that don't feel you even deserved the surtur. You were afk or linkdead for many of the consort fights, you weren't there for the 7 hours (that's right, these 'spanks' you rather gloss over in Avernus lasted for 7 whole hours) we spent dying beforehand. You didn't deserve an item that powerful, and you still stated discontent.

i knew roughly what stats are on surtur before i got it, its pff !summon 3 hitroll sense/farsee -8ss from memory. ive had surtur before. the ids were so i could refresh it and make a choice. probably many of you think im stupid because i cant decide which is better surtur or glammad, but i have different motivations. how many people you know that wear amulets of discord? that shit has awesome ac and great SS i wear 2. i have 1/2 earrings that i gave away to friends because i wear tgs for awesome ac and hitroll. I have seashell, so i dont need !summon, i dont really need farsee or sense life cept rarely. so excuse me if i had to ponder whether i wanted to give up hit/dam eq that was also 6 svb for 3 hitroll sense and farsee and envy. Ultimately i kept it because it makes good !summon eq for my cleric/shaman and my hitroll was a little too low. that and sobu seriously has wet dreams over surtur, i may someday give it to him for all the shit he did for me in years gone but dont know, depends how my AC/SS/HR/HPS work out as i acquire other eq.

5) There are so many contradictory statements in the same sentence or paragraph within your posts that I am completely boggled that you could possibly believe half of what you're saying.
You say you think you didn't deserve a scepter as much as Gura or Gyrx, then you ask the leader why you didn't get it. You say you don't always deserve the best items, then you wonder why you don't always get the best items. You say you ask the leaders why they don't give you what you want (when you don't even tell them what you want!), then you wonder why they don't like to deal with you. Fah. There were many more examples, frankly, my head hurts just reading them all.

umm tod i think you are exaggerating here. first, i didnt ask leader why i didnt get scepter. thats ranges from a gross interpretation to an outright lie. i asked him "why dont i get any respect in splits". that was followed up with me expressing my observation that i NEVER (not dont always) get best piece of eq from a zone, not this zone, not last zone, but in systematically over multiple months (unless everyone in group already has it). i dont tell leaders what i want because evils do handouts, if leader doesnt know what i want or what i need he should ask me. leaders get enough fukin tells during split, i dont need to add to it. splits are fukin stressful, ive done them, ive watched sok do hundreds of them. i certainly dont whine about splits (until this thread, and i didnt even mean this to be a whine about splits).

6) That deal with the rare on Smoke.. You say you completed the quest, and that you didn't know the quest?!
WTF! For your information, that shaman you refer to has been looking for that specific mob for the last month or more, every single boot, every single day for two separate people that he has promised to assist with it. You show up and 'claim' it like that, then tell him you not only don't know the quest, not only have one already, but that you're just going to give it away, I can assure you he'll be slightly upset with you.

ok you fucked this one all up buddy. first, i dont give a fuck if that shaman been looking for the last 7 years, whomever finds it finds it. whoever gets the first group there to kill it owns it. thats the same shit some warrior pulled on me the FIRST time i found zog, gimme the necklace i been looking for it for a long time (he already had one, i didnt). also, just because i found a rare doesnt mean im going to keep it, but i think it entitles me to the right to pass it out, especially if i get a group to do it. As for me showing up to claim it, my wife found it, i told sok to get the group we were in to smoke to kill it. I had something like 7 people in my group from before boot (mostly guild members) wandering smoke looking for other the mob so we could fold over and kill it long before, i think, anyone else was even up there. We even found physically find the mob before anyone else did. And i dont have the boots from that rare, i have a different set of boots from a quest that a group communaly completed with the expensive relatively hard to acquire eq coming from my character when I had no idea what the end result was but just wanted to finish the quest. had i known i prolly would not have done it because the ac and hitroll on the smoke boots are far better and the quest is far cheaper than the elf boots. and yep, i didnt even fucking know the quest, but i let me ask you this, how the fuck am i supposed to learn it unless i search for the same rare and try to kill it and try to complete the quest? So i should kill it then give it to someone else to quest? Or should i give in to people who pull the im not going to help you unless you give me dice on this rare or flat out give it to me? is that respectable behavior? i think you are completely off base here and basically defending loot whorish behavior.

7) You say you constantly tell the leaders how you feel negatively about the split.
Have you ever said how you feel possitively about the split? Have you ever said that it was a good run, you had a good time, and that you don't really need any eq? Have you ever said that they did a good job? Have you ever given them so much as a pat on the back? I certainly didn't hear any of that from you at any time, to anyone. Is it any wonder they don't like dealing with you when all you exude is negativity?

bullshit, i do not constantly tell leaders i feel negatively about splits. basically i havent hardly said shit to any leader about any split until about 10 days ago, and even then i didnt complain about a specific split but made some general statements. why? i decided to stop being silent and start talking to leaders more about splits because i kept thinking that it might be my turn but it never was. i have not bitched at a leader about split, but i am starting to ask them this question, why is it never my turn to get the best piece of eq from a zone (any zone). Have I congratulated leaders on good and bad trips, sympathized with them. hell fucking yes, do i do it every time no because when i say it i want it to be special and i really mean it, not just sucking up. Do i chat with people and leaders on the mud about random things, of course.

8) I didn't deserve the Isha, and I don't deserve the arch-magi staff I have right now.
I tell this to anyone that asks me who got what from the split. I didn't contribute as much as others. The only thing I have going for me is dedication to the game. This being the case, I made sure people got items they wanted even if they didn't come from Tiamat. I gave my fireweed away, I gave a charm bracelet away, and I put a flaming staff of the magi in the pot, which I got back at the end. I have not one piece of eq that I can't use in some fashion on my one character, Todrael. 95% of the zones I go to, I do so just because I want to equip other people. If you went in with the same mentality, You wouldn't bitch about not getting your damn items.

i repeat still not bitching about getting "my" damn item. your awesome tod, i highly respect you for your dedication to the game and your opinion most of the time, but i think you have me all wrong. i must be a horrible communicator. anyhow you gave a lot of shit away rad, wouldnt have made a different if you hadnt imo of you. I think i can say that i have one piece of eq that i dont use on my main, Caz, but then again i style myself as a tank and wear hp gear. I do have a couple small pieces that i carry to give out to other people, things like onyx rings, tgs, bolty circlet, psilks, azurites. i aint going to try and compare what youve given to the mud and the evils to what ive given, but that doesnt mean i havent given anything. everyoen does what they can in their own ways. i think i go in with the same mentality, and i keep repeating this that im finally starting to say something after pondering it for at least the last 2-3 months. i wasnt saying it on the bbs, i was saying it to a couple specific people and it got perverted and blew up in my face ended up on ooc and spread like wildfire the same way the basless rumors about me trading psilks did (again i ask you to show me where all the eq is that i get from trading psilks is).

>Not to mention the possibility of you multi-playing with your wife's character.
Or the Fact that you have shared your characters between each other at several times in the past, which is strictly prohibited by the multi-playing rules.

god i cant believe i pissed you off so much that you would lash out like this. im not going to deny it because there is some truth to what you say, but this has absolutely nothing to do with this thread yet you went out of your way to attack me with it. fyi we have been tested on a few occasions for multiplaying and have passed every time. we have also been tested for botting and were at the keys every time. i have more than enough access to sites and knowledge to setup scripts and firewalls and linux boxes to multiplay if i so desired. i had 6 people mudding from the same internet connection in the days of mystra and the rules are far more relaxed now. but speculation and rumours and accusations will abound. this was a low blow, and I'll add this, though it sounds very hipporcitical, people that live in glass houses should not throw stones.

gura
>all i have to say is psilks are not little things. u say u have 3 of em layin around well shit..i know about 20 casters who could use them. why trade them to goodies? its not just you but i have seen you numerous times in gloomhaven at boot doin the major parts of it. I'm not saying you're the only one who does it cuz one of my own guildies had one posted on the wd board recently but i still dont understand why?

oof, i have never traded a psilk let alone to a goody. yea i have 3 of them lieing around to give away to people that need them. partial list of people ive given them to, zissar, cajur, sobu, gonac, kiryanna, dosarilog, myself, inesa. im not sure how many others i gave away i dont keep a list. if any evil needs a psilk let me know, i keep a couple spares to hand out.

baik
>I unfortunatly didnt' get to attend either Tiamat slayings by the evils, rl was too busy on Thursday and on Saturday well..i heard it was canceled so i didn't show up till too late. I tell ya tho.. You go to Tiamat, you bring 30 ppl with you you have approx 5 peices of eq.. Do the math.. Its a pretty good chance your not going to get anything.. Let alone the 2 best things awarded to yourself and your wifebot!

why must you all slander my wife. trash me now you trash her. what is it that i have that you are all so jealous and envious of? thats really fucked up, what did she ever do to you all. and i dont know what the fuck your talking about the 2 best items going to us. she picked one item from the hole AFTER everyone else had taken what they wanted and rented. i was asked if i wanted a Surtur and i responded in the affirmative.

>You made the comment that when Sok leads Tiamat that you'll get what you want, well the way that looks to me is your damning everybody for what they do and how they do it and yet your turning around and doing EXACTLY what your accusing others of doing. Practice what you preach.

hmm, you know this is one of those lose lose. people tell me that if i didnt like split (which i never complained about) go lead it yourself. you get someone to lead it for you people say that your a hipocrite. and truthfully i didnt say shit to sok about split tia or anything, he sent me a tell out of the blue and said im going to lead tia next saturday which piece you want. one of the influential people i did talk regarding my feelings about splits told me that i needed to get sok to stop doing bids and start protecting me like it appears everyone else does. i told him i would never ask sok to do something like that and i think the choice sok brings to the evils is awesome though i personally support handouts. id like to also say that numerous evils wouldnt follow sok when he switched back to doing bids instead of handouts after he had a bunch of trouble gathering for zones (he posted about it on the boards even). the interesting thing was they refused to follow him to zones where they had eq from but followed him to invasion. i asked one in particular about the hipocrisy in a that particular incident and he said, come on man its invasion. like that is somehow different. i dont like protectionism, i dont want sok running around using folks to get his friends eq. i wanna play the game and get rewarded in zone for coming, playing well, and having a good attitude.

>I cannot believe you or anybody else would even go into a situation like Tiamat and be upset because you didn't get the peice of eq you wanted and somebody else did! "Mommy!! little Timmy stole my scepter!" c'mon act your age not your shoe size

bleh, come on baik not once in this whole thread did i complain about not getting scepter or complain about the split. if i did copy the line and post it.

>As for your little this guild gets more and what they dont get this one gets which leaves every other guild out in the cold attitude... oso lame

umm, i never said that shit either. i dont remember where i said any evil guild got more than their fair share of eq in tia split or any other split. stop making me out to be someone im not.

tasan
Cry me a river of golden tears...
"I went to tiamat and all I got was this stupid crown"

fuk, again with this same shit? im happy with my crown. i love skullsmasher. i didnt bitch about split.

>Kiss all of our asses who've been here just as long as you, who would take the opportunity to go as part of the experience of playing the game.

yea and like i said i went figuring i wasnt going to get anything. if there was no eq at tiamat id still go, so pipe down.

>I wish there were more people like Tod around, and less of you people that consider this game something to get upset about.

really, miax was apparently at least a little upset about tiamat reportedly turning into a greed fest, does your idiotic comment apply to him or only people who get upset about eq? and like i got upset about eq, im upset because i got my ass jumped and turned into a posterchild over some simple non abusive questions/statements i sent one person which were misconstrued and perverted and gossiped at lightning speed resulting in a public shaming of me. this whole thread got turned into a caz bitched about tiamat split when i did no such thing. also saint todrael obviously gets very upset regarding this game, did you see the shit he said about my wife? or did you think that was somehow relevant to this thread rather than just lashing out at me in whatever way he thought could do the most damage. also, check the bbs he gets upset every once in a while and has posted some rather caustic shit on the bbs. who are you kidding.

todrael
>A chance. That's all anyone wants. I would agree with that. The problem is, you believe that chance exists at split time. This is true of dicing. But for handouts, here are some guide lines.

umm not at all. thats why i fully expect the next trip, assuming i even get an invite, to result in someone other than me getting scepter because there are lots of folks that been here longer done more than me and have better skills than me. that was in my original post also. i can just hope that someday im the lucky guy for whatever reason that gets the best piece of eq from a zone.

>The real chance to get eq exists in every day mud life. It exists when you manage -not- to miss any bashes you were assigned, -not- go linkdead or ghost.

yea ive missed bashes before ive had happy triggers bash when they shouldnt a couple times. the only bashes i can really think ive ever missed are in cc, and i was actually quite pissed last trip because i seemed to be missing a shit load of bashes and i couldnt figure out why. perhaps it was the snakes fucking around with tailsweep. ive tried to fix my connection, so far no dice, i do my best to work around it and play responsibly.

>It exists when you don't like the split, but accept it -anyways-, and say 'next time, perhaps.' It exists when you do the zone and say you had a great time.

fuk man, i accepted every split ive ever been involved in. i had beef one time about a bid i gsayd that got left out of the dice and i got an apology because the leader missed it. i didnt demand that they redice or anything. i dont bitch when folks are getting their 2nd and third gemstone or gray greens while i got none, i dont even say shit, im just patient and hope that someday i get that kind of stuff. ive never turned down a zone group unless i didnt have the time or the energy. ive never quit a zone group. basically i dont quit groups period, i got yelled at one time for refusing to leave an exp group that i had asked to join for another one. his point was how selfish i was for denying another group a tank. my point was i dont quit groups when something better comes along. while i have left groups to do things like zone, i try and stick to my principle of not leaving for something better.

ive enjoyed every zone ive been in. ive said it a few times to folks privately. im not in the habit of saying gee that was fun after every zone, because gee every zone is fun.

>It exists when you decide soloing or 2 person groups (Caz/Inesa) can be put off so you can do the required job for zone groups.

wtf is this? i play to zone, i dont turn down zone groups. ive never been anon (though my alts are). i rolled up a shaman and a cleric so in those situations we could still zone (which at the time were frequent). i absolutely fucking abhore doing exp. ive never heard anything bad about inesa except one time when she was rushing off to help someone with a cr and didnt stop to fly someone who asked her as she passed by.

>It exists when you look past the guild titles to the actual people behind the keyboards. It exists when you stick with it, day after day, zoning just to zone, spending time with every group that forms.

im not going to ignore titles and affiliations, but i do judge and interact with each person individually. i stick with it, ive been here. only break ive really taken since starting in august was the 3 times i flew back to the states to visit my parents. I post consistently on the boards, some of them are stupid and antagonistic, but a lot are my opinions of how to make this a better game.

>The chance exists in your every action, day in and day out. Just because you sat in front of your monitor for 12 hours on one particular day, and typed some commands, does not entitle you to even the remotest chance at a reward. At the least, it shows raw effort, which is only one aspect of many.

agree.

>I don't want Caz or Inesa to leave the mud, or become discouraged. I want their actions and words to show worth and value to our community as a whole. Really, I just want to play the game, and have fun. You should too.

dont worry ill be around. im not upset at the split, im not upset that i dont have things like diamondines. im upset that you all think im a bad person or a greedy one. im upset that no one had the courtesy or respect to say shit to me and would rather just talk behind my back and eventually end up on ooc. im very upset atm that you all would take shots at my wife.

gromi
>P.s. slightly to the point, but will prolly fan the flames, Caz.. you did not spend 12 hours there. You were not there for the 5 hours of spanks before hand, you got there in time to mop of some of the consorts before moving onto the baby reds. This was the main thing that made me give the scepter to gyrx because he was there all 13 hours.

oof, i didnt try to indicate i was in the group there for the whole trip on saturday. i was online for the whole trip saturday minus 40 minutes (i knew i shoudlve doublechecked the time), but didnt join you guys until the last avernus run where we cleaned house and ventured onto mountain (half the trip?). i was appreciative that you thought highly enough of us to bring us up when doubtless there were people who wanted to go. I believe the part i was referring to was the time we spent together doing tiamat on thursday that you had forgotten during split even though i mentioned it to you during the drag. and i didnt complain to you one bit about that either because i wasnt complaining about split and like several people pointed out whether you sat in front of the keyboard for 12 hours doesnt make you any worthier to get the eq. i think the tells went something like

gromi says scepter to gyrx
you tell gromi, why dont i ever get any respect in splits?
gromi tells you i gave it to gyrx because he died 30+ times and went on both trips
you tell gromi and like i didnt? (hmm that sounds bad, my intent here was not to say that i deserved it as much as gyrx or that we were equal but more the shock that he had forgotten that we had gone thursday)
gromi tells you you went thursday?
you tell gromi yes for the whole trip
gromi tells you you want surtur?
tell gromi yea, who wouldnt... (plus i think something to the effect of that this is again the secondbest)

and that my friends somehow lead to me being called scapegoated as the greediest bitch alive and person who ruined tiamat and almost made OD disband.

also, had gyrx not even attended half the first tiamat trip or the beginning of the second trip i still wouldnt have felt that i deserved it more than him nor would i have conducted myself in any other way.

ill go back and check for details and edit, but i really wanted to get this post out.

[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 04-11-2002).]</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Aside from everything else, this has got to be one of the longest rants I have ever seen. Image

Let me be very clear on my position in all of this. I was in on the Tia run that night, and yes it's true that some folks acted a bit immature about the split. I was angry about that, because for Me personally that kinda ruins the fun of the night, but that is a personal opinion and has nothing to do with policy. I actually Errored in mentioning Caz by name over OOC, and I apologized to him for that. Thats the end of it as far as my involvement is concerned.



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Blung
Sojourner
Posts: 185
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 6:01 am
Location: San Diego, CA,

Postby Blung » Fri Apr 12, 2002 1:43 am

Well now, I can see why Caz have to defend himself. I would go balistic if a god point finger at me and shouting it out to everyone for something I didn't do. Especially on S3, there are so many bandwagon jumper.

Experience is the worst teacher. It gives the test before the lesson.


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Blung take no prisoner.
Ragorn
Sojourner
Posts: 4732
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:01 am

Postby Ragorn » Fri Apr 12, 2002 3:13 am

You want to hear what I have to say? Shrug, ok.

I was on the first Seers run. It took 15 hours, from 10pm Friday to 1pm Saturday. When the zone was over, I left empty-handed. I lucked out and got the girdle on my second run (diced among 7 people), and never got any other Seers equipment for the rest of the wipe, diced or otherwise.

I played Sojourn for 5 years, and never set foot in Tiamat. When I played seriously, she was coded to be impossible without monks. You did her twice in a week.

I was never invited to a group that successfully completed invasion, EVER. 3 attempts, mud crashed every time. Ragorn retired with no invasion equipment. You got a surtur without even setting foot into Jotunheim.

What do I think? I don't think you deserve a scepter, and I don't think you deserve a surtur. I think you're a greedy self-centered whiny arrogant fuckhead. I think you were handed one of the best hitter items available in the game, and instead of licking your lips and typing eq a billion times like I would, you come to the forum and write ANOTHER dissertation on why someone on the mud is deliberately trying to fuck you out of what you rightly deserve. I think you have no appreciation and no gratitude for a leader who puts his own items in the pot for you to bid on when the zone doesn't yield enough. I think you take that for granted. I think you need to do 8 zones in a row and not get ANYTHING to teach you what zoning REALLY is. I think you need to learn that there is not always a reward for Caz in return for your 5 hours of time.

You say "I do not think I deserve this item more than Gura and Gryx" but you sure don't act like you mean that. You make it a point to agree with every reason why items were handed out, but you only say that to sound sincere. It's obvious you do NOT think that Gromikazer split well, and it's obvious that you do NOT think you deserved to be passed over, twice. You are just giving them lip service while you tell the world why you, Caz, deserve to be an elite player.

Besides all that, I find the thing about you ruining quests for people hysterical. You have a long history of placing yourself above other people. You, who posted a 15 page rant on here about why questers should not be allowed to ruin your rescue practice on skeletons. You then turn around and kill quest mobs and refuse to give up the items to people doing the quests. And then you try to act all self-righteous when someone tells you how to do the quest later, like that was your intention all the time. You laugh at people who refuse to help you, and then you come on here and grovel and beg for tiamat items. Yes, you are grovelling. You are giving lip service to everyone who posts, but what you are really saying is:

CAZ DESERVES BETTER ITEMS THAN THE ONES YOU ARE GIVING HIM.

And that is the bottom line. You can be as polite as you want about it. You're still publicly posting on the forum that you are better than people believe you are. You've given 10,000 reasons why you're a good group member and a good warrior, even when other people come on here and say you afk in zones and openly multi-play.

And now you've hatched some kind of conspiracy theory about why CC wouldn't send their clerics to tiamat cause they knew OD was splitting. What kind of equipment-centered idiot are you? Do you know how high I jumped when Visae casually said one day "Hey we're prepping for tia, think you could make it if we tried?" I about shit my pants. THANK you Ilshad, for even ASKING me that day that you probably don't even remember. Doing tiamat is a priviledge by itself, FUCK the item you get at the end. You don't understand that, you reek of someone who will never do a zone just to do a zone, or someone who will help another person just because they need it and not because they have something to offer you.

That is why I hate you.

You are the epitome of the player I started Wanderlust to avoid having to play with.

You would never survive on the goodie side.

- Ragorn

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Postby Gormal » Fri Apr 12, 2002 3:28 am

cliff > ragorn = gormal = touk = shev = gromikazer > all

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Postby Gormal » Fri Apr 12, 2002 3:34 am

i've said this once ill say it again. When you agree to do ANY zone you agree to the leaders perrogative on equipment. esp if they post about it before hand. I didn't lead tiamat, I just went along for the ride...but I helped both goodie groups prep..and tossed in a pile of nice equipment to imphras just to help make sure people got something...i love my 2 monkey chains i have from the trips. it was worth the skullsmasher, white dscales, squid bag, etc i gave out...not to mention the hug epile of heal potions heal staves amps and stuff i dumped on the ground for the group to use o rmy time. I loved the zone i had fun. i got my name on the friggin wall. I laughed my ass off every time we spanked. Ask miax i sent him a tell each time how much fun i was having.

get over it and just have some fun

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Postby Baikalisan » Fri Apr 12, 2002 3:35 am

I didn't attack your wife. I made a comment about your wifebot. I dont know your wife, or if she even really exists.. Makes no difference to me one way or the other.

Damn near every person on the evil side knows you multi play Inesa.. again, Makes no difference to me one way or the other.

As for Tia-eq, well... let em not waste my breath again.

You did insinuate that when CC led tia all CC got best eq and when OD led tia OD got all the best eq and that when Sok decides to lead tia that you will get what you wish, no matter who is along.

Normally i'd put some kind of witty saying here but hell, this post is sapping my strength! But I will reccommend you take a break from the mud. At least a long step backwards and re-evaluate your position and what you want your position on the mud to be.

Nobody hates you man, i think everybody pretty much sitting back and saying .. oh man you gotta be kidding me! .. as they read it all...

anyway
ciao



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Postby Bipple » Fri Apr 12, 2002 4:17 am

Wish I had the 10 minutes I wasted reading this thread back.
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Postby Salen » Fri Apr 12, 2002 4:47 am

Yeah and Touk sux cuz he didn't give Yaya his 3rd eldritch. Oh wait....
Bah nm this one is for real.
Carry on
Nothing to see here.

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Postby Mishre » Fri Apr 12, 2002 5:51 am

Well, i feel like less of a person for even posting here, but hopeful i can help ya Caz..

Just let it alone... can't fix it.. only dig yourself in worse...

Take a break.. relax.. i think it will take a lot to prove yourself to everyone but a lot of hardwork and selfless sacrafice for awhile will probably keep you from being perm. OC from everyone...
Realize its a game.. and that if the reason you are playing is because you NEED SPANKY EQ! and dedicate hours of every day to getting it.. maybe you should try to find something else to do with your time...

One thing im confused on.. I don't trade things to goodies? why not? why are we so bad? don't we have things you need? I figure we are all in the same game together and to act so selflish against other players wether you can group with them or not is a childish(read: Immature) attitude to have... what affects 1 side can affect the other... one good turn deserves another.. etc...
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Postby kiryan » Fri Apr 12, 2002 6:42 am

zrax
>Please tell me this was your idea of a joke, if it was hillarious, if not still hillarious but in a far different way. Hey cherz if I ever officially decide to quit you can have my diamondine, lightning earring and greygreens.

thats very nice of you zrax. and for the most part, i do wait in silence; im glad you think thats funny.

todrael
>Yes, this was my very first Personal flame. Your posts upset me quite a bit. I mentioned to others that posting you multi-play made me feel bad about not mentioning some others I also believe multi-play, but that's just all the dirty crap people don't talk about in public. Besides, I know you do multi-play.
Leader group-says 'caz s'
Inesa flies south.

this is called inesa having her mem out trigger on in zone. as i recall this happened more than 5 months ago and hasnt happened since. but apparently its a running joke with folks in cc because its been mentioned to me a couple times by cc folks. im glad you know that i multi play. i have violated some multi rules, but there is a real inesa, she does speak some pretty good english now with a char of 40 play days to practice with and im still appalled that you would bring this up here just to try and get back at me. you suck tod.

>I've always been strange that way, about bringing things up that everyone else just keeps quiet (this particular event is still talked about sometimes). You asked if you were a loot whore, and I said yes. If you didn't want to know how I felt, you shouldn't have asked. And yet you're still hurt? Heh.

no i said ouch. im hurt regarding the personal attacks you made on my wife when it had nothing to do with this thread.

elseenas
Two observations.

1) You are taking this far, far too seriously. This is a game. I presently am taking time off from the game (will be back after finals in a few weeks) and it will continue without me. Zones are run without me, life goes on, and it will all still be there when I come back.

bullshit, i should probably be more humble and just ignore what other people say about me, but ive always said that this is a community and not a game. i take my reputation seriously, and while ive completely fucked it up now with this thread, i was hoping for the best that it was just a misunderstanding and everyone would go gee caz didnt bitch about tia split and we all jumped his ass for nothing.

2) You lack the competency to hold a debate of this nature. I don't know whether it is language, or logic, or what it is that escapes you but there is *something* in this that you have never gotten.

obviously. yet im rather successful in rl debates and arguments. im missing something here (this is the first forum ive ever really participated on).

>Take some time off and come back after things have cooled down and you have a greater perspective on what this game means to you.

i know exactly what this game means to me. doing zones and hanging out and helping friends. i dont need time off to figure that out.

caedym
>Caz, stop posting. Seriously. You’re just digging yourself a deeper hole. Let all the wanks jump in and have their little 2 cent rant on you and what not, even if half of it has nothing to do with this thread. This thread will die down in a week when the next topic for personal outlet comes up.

ill let this thread die in a couple days. im not done defending myself for better or worse. i knew i probably wouldnt make any friends, i knew that someone would bring up the multi thing. im not half as stupid as some of you think i am. perhaps foolish but not stupid. i decided my course and i see no compelling reason to stray at this point especially when i can see the false impression that many of you have about me. if you were calling me a opinioniated overbearing asshole that would be different, but your calling me a loot whore and i remain convinced that i am not.

miax
>Let me be very clear on my position in all of this. I was in on the Tia run that night, and yes it's true that some folks acted a bit immature about the split. I was angry about that, because for Me personally that kinda ruins the fun of the night, but that is a personal opinion and has nothing to do with policy. I actually Errored in mentioning Caz by name over OOC, and I apologized to him for that. Thats the end of it as far as my involvement is concerned.

first, i didnt see your apologies, but i believe you made them and i am appreciative and ill say to you no big deal everyone makes mistakes. i also appreciate your admission of error. but, i hope you dont walk away; you are deeply involved. you are a leader on this mud in a different manner, and leaders have great responsibilities. you cant say something like that as the respected person you are then apologize and expect everything to be ok. i wouldnt be here on the boards if it had never been said. And while there were alternatives to posting here, once those words left your mouth, there was no way to take them back and they ultimately set me on this course. of course you cant be held responsible for my actions, but your not exactly free from guilt are you. Just like the man who says go jump off a bridge, then someone does it. he can apologize and say it wasnt his fault, but he will probably harbor that guilt forever. ill handle this issue myself as well as i can, there is nothing you can really do, but i certainly dont think you should forget it or wash your hands of it. im not trying to blame you for anything especially not for ruining my reputation (assuming i had a good one to start with), im making a way worse reputation for myself on my own.

ragorn
>You want to hear what I have to say? Shrug, ok.
I was on the first Seers run. It took 15 hours, from 10pm Friday to 1pm Saturday. When the zone was over, I left empty-handed. I lucked out and got the girdle on my second run (diced among 7 people), and never got any other Seers equipment for the rest of the wipe, diced or otherwise.

you want me to post my sob stories? sorry cant really remember any because im not focused on what i get each trip.

>I played Sojourn for 5 years, and never set foot in Tiamat. When I played seriously, she was coded to be impossible without monks. You did her twice in a week.

and i did her several times before in other wipes, also won a crane one time. so what? i relish the trips, they were a blast. this thread was never meant to be one about tia split.

>I was never invited to a group that successfully completed invasion, EVER. 3 attempts, mud crashed every time. Ragorn retired with no invasion equipment. You got a surtur without even setting foot into Jotunheim.

I like surtur alot, dont know if ill wear it forever, only time will tell. i really dont understand your point here, ive done invasion at least 10 times prolly more like 20 times, i even had sok's surtur and twilight for extended periods before.

>What do I think? I don't think you deserve a scepter, and I don't think you deserve a surtur. I think you're a greedy self-centered whiny arrogant fuckhead. I think you were handed one of the best hitter items available in the game, and instead of licking your lips and typing eq a billion times like I would, you come to the forum and write ANOTHER dissertation on why someone on the mud is deliberately trying to fuck you out of what you rightly deserve. I think you have no appreciation and no gratitude for a leader who puts his own items in the pot for you to bid on when the zone doesn't yield enough. I think you take that for granted. I think you need to do 8 zones in a row and not get ANYTHING to teach you what zoning REALLY is. I think you need to learn that there is not always a reward for Caz in return for your 5 hours of time.

ok, done the 8 zones in a row and doesnt get anything. also done the 16 hour straight zoning sessions and walked away without complaining with the hand me down when someone who was there for 1/4 of the time walked away with the choice eq. and i didnt run off to the boards to right about how i got the shaft in tia split. this was a defense over being shamed on ooc. not a good one. you all turned it into a thread on tia split.

>You say "I do not think I deserve this item more than Gura and Gryx" but you sure don't act like you mean that. You make it a point to agree with every reason why items were handed out, but you only say that to sound sincere. It's obvious you do NOT think that Gromikazer split well, and it's obvious that you do NOT think you deserved to be passed over, twice. You are just giving them lip service while you tell the world why you, Caz, deserve to be an elite player.

if you think leaders can split fairly every time then they are on a pipe dream (unless they dice, but thats a different kind of fair and unfair all together). are there any leaders that would dare to say that? or would they say they do their best? As far as the elite player stuff, maybe i hope that i hold to some of the same ideals that elite players hold to, but i never set out to be an elite player and im obviously not. i doubt one can try to become elite, its natural. witness tagad played on my old mud, was elite, came to sojourn, was elite, went to everquest is elite. its natural not something you can fake or try for. you can read all you want into my posts and make me out to be a horrible person, but i was no more disappointed to not get scepter as i am anytime i go to a zone and dont get the piece i want. and i never bitch about it.

>Besides all that, I find the thing about you ruining quests for people hysterical. You have a long history of placing yourself above other people. You, who posted a 15 page rant on here about why questers should not be allowed to ruin your rescue practice on skeletons.

yea i posted the skellies thing, i still think that when it comes down to 1 player vs 1 player who both want to do something that are mutually exclusive, the person who was there first should get priority. it works that way with zones, with exp, and many other facets of life. but the consensus was that one person wanting to do a quest is greater than one person trying to improve his skills.

>You then turn around and kill quest mobs and refuse to give up the items to people doing the quests. And then you try to act all self-righteous when someone tells you how to do the quest later, like that was your intention all the time.

i was the one trying to do the quest asshole. its rather rare and my wife found it for me. is it because that was the first time i had ever seen the quest mobs and therefore didnt know the quest deny me the right to try it? or is it that people who have sources of info and dont tell folks quest info deserve to do the quest first. simple fact was we found it sok's group killed it and instead of getting help and support from people at trying to do the quest for the first time i get im not helping you unless you give it to me or dice it. if you do ill tell you everything i know. thats fuckign extortion and greed. why would i kill a rare and quest mob if i didnt intend to do the quest? i talked to the mob, i logged info about it, i asked people that i know if they knew the quest or had the pieces that are required. and ultimately i ran out of time to finish the quest so i gave the piece to the person who is in general more of a friend to me.

>And now you've hatched some kind of conspiracy theory about why CC wouldn't send their clerics to tiamat cause they knew OD was splitting. What kind of equipment-centered idiot are you? Do you know how high I jumped when Visae casually said one day "Hey we're prepping for tia, think you could make it if we tried?" I about shit my pants. THANK you Ilshad, for even ASKING me that day that you probably don't even remember. Doing tiamat is a priviledge by itself, FUCK the item you get at the end. You don't understand that, you reek of someone who will never do a zone just to do a zone, or someone who will help another person just because they need it and not because they have something to offer you.

i said in summary, i think lucuduzur (OD) got crown thursday during cc's run (to which only one CC cleric attended and he wanted boots) so that a cc cleric would be sure to get the crown on saturday's run. but that is my conspiracy theory and is a low blow. i dont know if its true, but i submit it for your inspection. ill also submit this comment made by the leader after giving the crown to lucuduzur, "you better play more often luc." im not eq centered, but im not stupid and i pay attention and analyze what goes on around me.

gorma
>i've said this once ill say it again. When you agree to do ANY zone you agree to the leaders perrogative on equipment. esp if they post about it before hand. I didn't lead tiamat, I just went along for the ride...but I helped both goodie groups prep..and tossed in a pile of nice equipment to imphras just to help make sure people got something...i love my 2 monkey chains i have from the trips. it was worth the skullsmasher, white dscales, squid bag, etc i gave out...not to mention the hug epile of heal potions heal staves amps and stuff i dumped on the ground for the group to use o rmy time. I loved the zone i had fun. i got my name on the friggin wall. I laughed my ass off every time we spanked. Ask miax i sent him a tell each time how much fun i was having.
get over it and just have some fun

i had a ton of fun too. i hope im invited back many times even if i am never considered for eq.

baik
>I didn't attack your wife. I made a comment about your wifebot. I dont know your wife, or if she even really exists.. Makes no difference to me one way or the other.
Damn near every person on the evil side knows you multi play Inesa.. again, Makes no difference to me one way or the other.

you dont think calling my wife a bot is an attack? im glad everyone evil knows i multiplay inesa. i wish some of you that know things would stop and ask rather than assume. just like you all knew that i trade psilks. and i think this must be the root of why everyone resents and hates me so much. its because i got something you dont. i got a personal enchanter to twink eq with, to level my alts, to jet me around the world. i get to "multiplay" and therefore somehow have it easier than you all. inesa is real and we have been tested on occasions. so accuse all you want, test us again, log our tells, do whatever you want. you can bet im going to keep my nose extra clean from today. i hope the rest of you "multiplayers" do too. i may not keep my cool the next time we are slandered like this.

>Nobody hates you man, i think everybody pretty much sitting back and saying .. oh man you gotta be kidding me! .. as they read it all...

who are you kidding. no one hates me yet todrael goes out of his way to post that he thinks my wife is me multi playing. so explain to me how that has anything to do with tia or me being a loot whore or anything i said prior. it is undeniably simply him lashing out in anger. explain to me why everyone is saying im whining because i didnt get tia scepter when i say several times that i think gura and gyrx deserved them? show me where i said i deserved tia scepter above either of them, show me where i said im not happy about getting surtur or skullsmasher. show me where i said tia split wasnt fair? show me where i said its not fair that people dumped eq into a hole and seemingly bought influence? i got plenty of pretty nice easily replaceable eq to dump in a hole in that case.


mishre
>One thing im confused on.. I don't trade things to goodies? why not? why are we so bad? don't we have things you need? I figure we are all in the same game together and to act so selflish against other players wether you can group with them or not is a childish(read: Immature) attitude to have... what affects 1 side can affect the other... one good turn deserves another.. etc...

i just dont trade. i hate negotiating in trade cause im sympathetic and not greedy. i have difficulty making a trade that i think is unfair especially when its in my favor. i would rather gift something to you than trade you for it. i gave away my damage sword to a real newbie after getting ebony because i didnt need it anymore. i gave away my flamberge because i never 2h. i give away all sorts of eq to people who have alts or are just getting started because it makes me feel helpful. i regularly go through and give away all the crap that sok has left over after zone like nightbringers, dueg maces, girdles of giant strength, turbans, ect.. all that crap that no one bothers to bid on but just sits in his bag to be destroyed someday by dragonfire. a little bit i hope im making good "kharma" and someday someone will walk up to me and hand me something i could never get on my own, but i really dont think that is likely. As far as psilks specifically, ive thought about giving them to goodies, but evil side community rules are basically dont trade with goodies especially eq only evils can acquire. i am a part of the evil community, i do my best to follow the rules. im not going to make waves so you can have a few more ss or a couple more hps, thats retarded and the hps in particular are eye candy.


more fule for the fire
frankly, regarding split, those that have will say they deserved it and will crush those that dont with attitude, threats, flames, and the title of loot whore. those that think they will win points with leaders by deriding a loot whore will also demonstrate the same behavior. maybe you all should take a vacation from the game and figure out what it means to you?
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Postby Mplor » Fri Apr 12, 2002 6:45 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ragorn:
I was on the first Seers run. It took 15 hours, from 10pm Friday to 1pm Saturday. When the zone was over, I left empty-handed. I lucked out and got the girdle on my second run (diced among 7 people), and never got any other Seers equipment for the rest of the wipe, diced or otherwise.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow, did it really take 15 hours? Man that seems like forever ago. Seriously, the best memory of those early Seers runs were having Ragorn along and watching him fall down the shaft and die repeatedly. Honestly now, I never did it on purpose, but looking back it is hilarious to remember how many times i led the group over the cliff edge and Rags was the only one without levitation/fly. omg, hehe

Mp



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Postby sok » Fri Apr 12, 2002 7:15 am

Woot! got back from bible study. I had an awesome time. I skipped it last thursday to do tiamat. I think that might a contributing facter in my anger. Anyways, after some reflection and counseling. I wanna apologize to those I have anger or made to feel bad. I let my emotions get the better of me. I guess I let the mud addiction take over. Hopefully, I can conquer this mud addiction and mud for fun again.

Caz lets talk in private. U dont need to define youself. Let the bbs rest.

Sok
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Postby lucuduzur » Fri Apr 12, 2002 7:25 am

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">i said in summary, i think lucuduzur (OD) got crown thursday during cc's run (to which only one CC cleric attended and he wanted boots) so that a cc cleric would be sure to get the crown on saturday's run. but that is my conspiracy theory and is a low blow. i dont know if its true, but i submit it for your inspection. ill also submit this comment made by the leader after giving the crown to lucuduzur, "you better play more often luc." im not eq centered, but im not stupid and i pay attention and analyze what goes on around me.</font>


there were 4 clerics there.

Thursday Run:
Yssilk (CC), Syssok (SD), Baldorak (CC) and Lucuduzur (OD).
So basically there's 2 CC clerics on that run.
Saturday Run:
Yssilk (CC), Baldorak (CC), Kunrikan (OD),
Elet (OD), Lucuduzur (OD).

Facts my friend. Always base your assumption on facts.

Frankly speaking, I don't think I deserve the crown more than syssok. He's been leading stuff, and i hardly even know my way around dk. If syssok wants the crown by all means just mudmail me and i'll gladly give you the crown.

I just don't care really. I've been using this stone holy symbol for all that i know, and another crown doesn't make any difference to me either. All i ask is that my name is in the mural near the oracle *giggle*.
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Postby Ragorn » Fri Apr 12, 2002 8:10 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Mplor:
<B> Wow, did it really take 15 hours? Man that seems like forever ago. Seriously, the best memory of those early Seers runs were having Ragorn along and watching him fall down the shaft and die repeatedly. Honestly now, I never did it on purpose, but looking back it is hilarious to remember how many times i led the group over the cliff edge and Rags was the only one without levitation/fly. omg, hehe

Mp

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah that was my longest mud streak to date.. we spent SO much time screwing around with that door that didn't open right before the seer king, and with the various switches and puzzles and stuff.

I have no idea how many times I did seers, but I never once completed the zone without falling to my death at least once. I never really had proof, but I always thought some god was dispelling my fly right as we went down the shaft. After I finally did Jot enough to get a fly cloak, I just plain forgot to wear it. It became sort of a tradition.

Mplor group-says 'going east, ress ragorn at the bottom'.

As for Caz, I don't care to comment further. Enjoy the game, any way you choose to.

- Ragorn

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Postby gokk » Fri Apr 12, 2002 8:56 am

Hey Blung you fatass whatsup?
Where you wasting your time at now?

Remember that one Friday night when you, me, gurzog, katheli, plut, belemor, one of the swedes? maybe jegzed, oh yeah and lurgo the dummy did roots? and we got so spanked when the damn tree moved like 3 rooms in like 1 second? i think it pinned you guys in causing Root Spank part I =).

then we got some horrible backup eq and picked up one or two other people (i don't think they even knew how to do one-way) went back in, and it suddenly became Root Spank part II? It was already hours into the early morning by then.

Finally we managed to CR and avoid Root Spank part III (whew), we all went to sleep (except the Russians I think, and maybe the Swede cuz of the time difference), and got up a few hours later to do.....Tiamat!!!! i think the first and only of S2.

We gave it a good shot but didn't win. Nobody got any spanky eq. And we blew a shit-load of pendants. and made many many moist and tasty copies of our corpses.

But whenever we looked back on that trip, we always talked about it with laughs and good memories (cuz we were all shitting our pants waiting for the mud to crash with all our stuff on the ground due to corpse rot).

So you see? you don't necessarily have to win eq or even get the eq to have a good time and a memorable trip. Just be as involved as you can and the eq will come, kinda like taking a last drag on your cigarette to cap off a night of drinking with your buddies.

see ya,

gokk
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Postby Nilan » Fri Apr 12, 2002 9:17 am

My god!!!!! This thread is one of the meanest things i read here in 6 plus years.

What is the purpose of calling someone a "greedy arrogant selfcentered fuckhead!!!!"

What is the purpose of telling someone "i hate you"

Good lord, try think before you write stuff like that....Do people forget that real life people sit behind these computer screens? Why hurt people like that?? If you have an opinion voice it, but saying things like that hurts....

Think alil bit before ya post stuff like this.

Its a game for god's sake, play it, have fun...

Life is too short....

Nilan
Guest

Postby Guest » Fri Apr 12, 2002 11:29 am

This thread is amazing. A few things:

1. If you, as a leader, think someone's attitude makes it obnoxious to bring them in a group, then go ahead and don't bring them. That's a fairly simple method of handling the situation. It's also far more effective than flaming people on the BBS.

2. If you think that group leaders are being unfair in their method of passing out eq, then by all means don't go with them. Again, this is a much more effective and straight-forward solution to the problem. Publicly complaining about it is highly unlikely to get you better splits.

3. This is a game. Even though it's a fantasy environment, it's still played by real people in the real world. Last I checked, no one has ever come up with a perfect system for distribution of resources, much less executed one. Given that fact, it seems unlikely that such a massive advancement in sociology will magically appear to solve any issues of distribution in the game.

4. The proper way to report someone breaking a rule in the game is to petition it, and especially if you can do it while it's happening. Alternately you could send an e-mail to one of the admins who has their email listed under staff here.

It just seems to me that if issues involving relations between some of the individuals here are going to be resolved, they won't be in a BBS flame war. And if the intent isn't to resolve the issues, but to just launch personal attacks on others, please remember that by doing so you diminish your own reputation.


[This message has been edited by Iyachtu (edited 04-12-2002).]
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Postby Gromikazer » Fri Apr 12, 2002 11:55 am

I wonder Caz, if your are just randomly flailing and purposefully trying to hit under the belt?

My influence is not so easily bought. Zazyg added 3 items to the bag of eq for people, but he had already won on thursday (e.g. he didn't need to), and todrael has always been a cool guy. Even after the split was done and he got the staff, he continued to give away his eq, giving up a fireweed earring to verzul (again not necessary because he already had the staff).

Truthfully, I'm glad that everyone that went got to participate in tiamat. I will not read or respond, or comment on this thread anymore.

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Gromikazer Terrorforge -Veldruk- Orbdrin D'oloth
Yadir
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Postby Yadir » Fri Apr 12, 2002 1:23 pm

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks". - (Hamlet - Act III, Scene II).

"Brevity is the soul of wit". - (Hamlet - Act II, Scene II).

William Shakespeare


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Postby Zoldren » Fri Apr 12, 2002 1:35 pm

todrael
>Yes, this was my very first Personal flame. Your posts upset me quite a bit. I mentioned to others that posting you multi-play made me feel bad about not mentioning some others I also believe multi-play, but that's just all the dirty crap people don't talk about in public. Besides, I know you do multi-play.
Leader group-says 'caz s'
Inesa flies south.

""""this is called inesa having her mem out trigger on in zone. as i recall this happened more than 5 months ago and hasnt happened since. but apparently its a running joke with folks in cc because its been mentioned to me a couple times by cc folks"""". im glad you know that i multi play. """"i have violated some multi rules"""", but there is a real inesa, she does speak some pretty good english now with a char of 40 play days to practice with and im still appalled that you would bring this up here just to try and get back at me. you suck tod.

1st off, remeber its a game and that pink is good for the soul

2nd there have been times where people send one of you a tell and the other responds....

3rd atleast you can admit it, wish i had the knowledge I would do it, could you imagine a group of 15 pink's doing a zone!! WOOT teach me Image

Pink Power.... Go naked EQ is over rated its the friends/sexual desire that gets me zoning :P

Oh and P.S> I have seen Maix apologize to you read your own post. Then I would Apologize to him...After all he is here just to let us have fun Hugs Dad
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Postby Ashiwi » Fri Apr 12, 2002 2:20 pm

My dear, departed grandmother gave me the best advice I ever received in my life. She said "A real sign of maturity is knowing when to pick your battles."

When you fight everything in your path it's an uphill battle. Battling every imagined slight, every offense you could ever receive, just wears you down. When I finally got to the point where I could let most of it roll off my back instead of jumping up in arms over every comment I had a question about (and when you argue about everything, you question everything), I started to realize I was going a lot farther, a lot faster in my goals. At some point, you go from protecting a reputation that needs protecting, to a reputation which protects you.
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Postby Glarec » Fri Apr 12, 2002 2:23 pm

OMG, do u guys realize this is like nilan's first non-RP post?! (if he did it before, i never seen it :P )


amazing Image
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Postby Gort » Fri Apr 12, 2002 3:45 pm

I second Iyachtu's post, couldn't have said it better.

Peace!

Toplack *praying Ancestral Calm* Frostbear

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Elseenas
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Postby Elseenas » Fri Apr 12, 2002 4:29 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
bullshit, i should probably be more humble and just ignore what other people say about me, but ive always said that this is a community and not a game. i take my reputation seriously, and while ive completely fucked it up now with this thread, i was hoping for the best that it was just a misunderstanding and everyone would go gee caz didnt bitch about tia split and we all jumped his ass for nothing.
</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tips on debate: Do not use words like "bullshit" unless the other party initiates their use and even then think very carefully about it. If you must express that sentiment use an abbreviation.

1) You are correct, this is a community.
2) You are incorrect, this is a game.
3) We're way past that point now.
4) Take some time off, the community will be here when you get back.
5) You are taking this as much more than a community and much more than a game.

If you let it, this thing will blow off given time and time will heal the wounds inflicted.

You just keep pouring salt and vinegar into it.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
obviously. yet im rather successful in rl debates and arguments. im missing something here (this is the first forum ive ever really participated on).
</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Something tells me you don't win debates, just arguments.

Some advice, take it very seriously.

*Do *NOT* use insults in the place of arguments.
*Choose your hills to die on.
*THINK before you POST.

Start with those three (and the other two I mention in this post) and we'll work on the rest (avoiding logical fallacies, saying things suscintly, &c) later.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
i know exactly what this game means to me. doing zones and hanging out and helping friends. i dont need time off to figure that out.
</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

::shakes head:: then you are hopeless and are doomed to leave this MUD in disgrace as a shunned character. Your statement confirms my 5th point: this is more to you than a community and more to you than a game and presently people hate you for it.

I have never seen the degree of passion I am seeing now about almost any topic on the MUD. Even at the time of the damned split. Todrael and Ragorn, both fairly cool people normally (some exceptions I've seen crop up), flew completely off the handle. Nilan actually broke character.

Also, for debates: drop the confrontational manner.

If I were willing to group with you before, I am not willing now. That is the degree to which you have pissed *me* off with this and I am not even involved in it. Back off. Take some time off from the MUD and reevaluate, then I think you'll find that people will respect you more.

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Elseenas of No House Worth Mentioning
moritheil
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Postby moritheil » Fri Apr 12, 2002 4:45 pm

OK...

For my personal perspective on this... I defended kiryan's right to post, over ooc, but I haven't actually read the thread before now.

Actually, to completely explain my personal perspective going into this, I am rather bummed out about bombing a physics test that even the teacher expected me to get an A in.

That being said, I think it's ridiculous that kiryan's getting flamed JUST for posting. Flaming someone for having a bad attitude or a misconception is, IMHO, one thing, and flaming them for existing (posting) at all is another thing entirely. I personally was able to read this thread and say, wow, other people have troubles too, so stop moping so much about your own. Plus, miax apologized to kiryan (to me, it looks like Kiryan somehow totally missed the on-game apology, that's how I'd interpret it), so at least there is some measure of resolution. I'd say this thread is not without *some* redeeming quality.

Now, to Kiryan himself, I'd say: screw the others. You know what Mori does when he logs on? He goes forth and zones, and gets people killed. You know what happened REAL fast? Those who were uptight about dying figured out that my leadership was not their ticket to a !death zone run. I'd go out on a limb, and say that a similar extension can be applied to loot: people will figure it out sooner or later. I used to hand out stuff all the time; I think I even handed out one of my partial vault runs. Sure, there were a few casters that wanted the warrior eq for some strange reason, and at least one of them has refused to group with me since. But I figure when he starts leading a lot, he'll realize why things went down the way they did. Hopefully, he'll understand.

Of course, it's not that simple. You, dealing with more uber people, also deal with people who feel entitled. I don't have any simple answers for that; it's been a problem since time immemorial. You run your groups, and stuff happens... but if it stops being fun, just #gag a ton of people.

In closing, I'd like to mention something Brugg told me once, quoting Proverbs. "Blessed are the balanced."

Here's hoping you find the peace you seek.

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Blung
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Postby Blung » Fri Apr 12, 2002 6:57 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by gokk:
<B>Hey Blung you fatass whatsup?
Where you wasting your time at now?

Remember that one Friday night when you, me, gurzog, katheli, plut, belemor, one of the swedes? maybe jegzed, oh yeah and lurgo the dummy did roots? and we got so spanked when the damn tree moved like 3 rooms in like 1 second? i think it pinned you guys in causing Root Spank part I =).

then we got some horrible backup eq and picked up one or two other people (i don't think they even knew how to do one-way) went back in, and it suddenly became Root Spank part II? It was already hours into the early morning by then.

Finally we managed to CR and avoid Root Spank part III (whew), we all went to sleep (except the Russians I think, and maybe the Swede cuz of the time difference), and got up a few hours later to do.....Tiamat!!!! i think the first and only of S2.

We gave it a good shot but didn't win. Nobody got any spanky eq. And we blew a shit-load of pendants. and made many many moist and tasty copies of our corpses.

But whenever we looked back on that trip, we always talked about it with laughs and good memories (cuz we were all shitting our pants waiting for the mud to crash with all our stuff on the ground due to corpse rot).

So you see? you don't necessarily have to win eq or even get the eq to have a good time and a memorable trip. Just be as involved as you can and the eq will come, kinda like taking a last drag on your cigarette to cap off a night of drinking with your buddies.

see ya,

gokk </B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


When S2 started up, eveyone know Tiamat almost unbeatable. We as evil, doesn't take that inconsideration. Each crash/reboot, we have dedicated players to go after the pendant. The long build up, the countless hours we spend gathering up. All for the ultimate challenge. In the end, its a bloody massacre. We came so close, but not close enough.

I think someone have a partial post of S2 Tiamat's run. That was some crazy shit, a few of us die at least 30+ times. I believe Miax was in tiamat room that day and shouting out how close we come to killing it.
If I recall correctly, Ssryth and a couple of necros help embalm all the corpses. Gromsharulaz stay up pretty late ressing whoever still awake.


These day I don't have enough time to play. 2) Not too many crazy of us left. 3) So many changes that I can't even keep up with reading it let alone play it. 4) Hopefully we come close to the final version, maybe I see you then?



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Blung take no prisoner.
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Postby belleshel » Fri Apr 12, 2002 6:59 pm

This almost fell off the first page, then what would we read...
Elseenas
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Postby Elseenas » Fri Apr 12, 2002 7:15 pm

Incidentally people, is it *really* necessary to quote *everything* someone wrote?

After Kiryan and then Miax's double post my modem was nearly put in cardiac arrest the other night, and if I wasn't on a high speed 802.11b right now I think my modem would have smoke pouring out of it from Blung's + all of the rest.

Post Script:

I just checked it and this thing runs over 1/4th of a MB in HTML and the accompanied text.

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Elseenas of No House Worth Mentioning

[This message has been edited by Elseenas (edited 04-12-2002).]
moritheil
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Postby moritheil » Fri Apr 12, 2002 9:25 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Elseenas:
<B> ::shakes head:: then you are hopeless and are doomed to leave this MUD in disgrace as a shunned character. Your statement confirms my 5th point: this is more to you than a community and more to you than a game and presently people hate you for it.

I have never seen the degree of passion I am seeing now about almost any topic on the MUD. Even at the time of the damned split. Todrael and Ragorn, both fairly cool people normally (some exceptions I've seen crop up), flew completely off the handle. Nilan actually broke character.

Also, for debates: drop the confrontational manner.

If I were willing to group with you before, I am not willing now. That is the degree to which you have pissed *me* off with this and I am not even involved in it. Back off. Take some time off from the MUD and reevaluate, then I think you'll find that people will respect you more.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Elseenas:
<B>Incidentally people, is it *really* necessary to quote *everything* someone wrote?

After Kiryan and then Miax's double post my modem was nearly put in cardiac arrest the other night, and if I wasn't on a high speed 802.11b right now I think my modem would have smoke pouring out of it from Blung's + all of the rest.

Post Script:

I just checked it and this thing runs over 1/4th of a MB in HTML and the accompanied text.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dear Elseenas,

I am not sure I see the problem. Image


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Jenera
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Postby Jenera » Fri Apr 12, 2002 9:37 pm

I am firmly convinced that most of you find it amusing to just be outright mean to each other. I want to meet this person who gives out these ranks that let you call people stupid, fuckheads, etc.

I will never understand...



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Jennie
@}--`--,---
Yasden
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Postby Yasden » Fri Apr 12, 2002 10:09 pm

This all brings back a lot of memories. Mostly bad ones, unfortunately. The only reason I'm posting is because I think everyone needs to log off and drink a beer, then come back with a smile on their face. You can go get glad in the same pants you got mad in, because this kind of useless ranting and nonsensical drivel is only promoting your onset of CTS several years early.

There's nothing wrong with complaining, but when it's all you ever do...you have to look back and think "when did I stop having fun?" When you figure that out, then you can try to correct the problem. Otherwise, you just proceed further down the spiral, as the pages on this thread can attest to. Wake up Caz, only you can save yourself.

Deathmagnet

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Postby Elseenas » Fri Apr 12, 2002 11:07 pm

::whaps mori::
At least you didn't post my signiture!

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Elseenas of No House Worth Mentioning
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Postby rachaz » Sat Apr 13, 2002 1:17 am

I have to be honest, I stopped reading this thread but I had to post that I think we are missing the real issue here.... Who says "loot whore?"
Rachaz
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Postby Valke » Sat Apr 13, 2002 9:12 am

I just wanted to say something. Image
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Postby kiryan » Sat Apr 13, 2002 11:24 am

lucuduzur
there were 4 clerics there.
Facts my friend. Always base your assumption on facts.
Frankly speaking, I don't think I deserve the crown more than syssok. He's been leading stuff, and i hardly even know my way around dk. If syssok wants the crown by all means just mudmail me and i'll gladly give you the crown.

dood i am so sorry. your totally right, yssilk was in the thursday run and the saturday run. im cant believe i forgot yssilk went on thursday, boy i feel stupid. sorry yssilk, sorry grom, sorry lazz. sorry everyone. as far as who deserved the crown, soks not mad that he didnt get it. you certainly dont need to give it to him. i personally dont really care who got it, i just thought incorrectly that it alluded to a grander scheme. however, if its true that eq is handed out based on contribution merit and all that other stuff folks like todrael have said it is, you probably lag behind sok while sok might lag behind yssilk. i never meant to say you dont deserve it, just that it was interesting that you got it with everything being what it is. i knew i shouldnt have posted that shit. fug.

iyachtu
>2. If you think that group leaders are being unfair in their method of passing out eq, then by all means don't go with them. Again, this is a much more effective and straight-forward solution to the problem. Publicly complaining about it is highly unlikely to get you better splits.

again you guys are putting words in my mouth. i never complained about split. this thread isnt about getting me better eq in splits. its about addressing some things people have said about me that i believe are 100% untrue.

gromi
>I wonder Caz, if your are just randomly flailing and purposefully trying to hit under the belt?
My influence is not so easily bought. Zazyg added 3 items to the bag of eq for people, but he had already won on thursday (e.g. he didn't need to), and todrael has always been a cool guy. Even after the split was done and he got the staff, he continued to give away his eq, giving up a fireweed earring to verzul (again not necessary because he already had the staff).

yea that was low and i dont really think anyone actually bought their bids. however, you mentioned all the people that put eq in the pot. if it had nothing to do with it you didnt need to mention it in the first place. i cant think of anyone more worth of staff than todrael and i dont think anyone can say anything bad about zazyg either. whether they put eq in or not im sure they wouldve gotten it anyways.

zoldren
>2nd there have been times where people send one of you a tell and the other responds....

if inesa gets a tell meant for me, does she need to tell back to you that she is not me or can she pass the info along in real life? we assume you can figure out that she is not me when you receive the reply from me. If you were worried about us multiplaying you couldve asked us.

>Oh and P.S> I have seen Maix apologize to you read your own post. Then I would Apologize to him...After all he is here just to let us have fun Hugs Dad

ill talk to him some more about what i said here next time i see him in game. as far as your comment, im not sure if thats informational or what, i also saw miax apologize to me, and i believe i even accepted his apology in the last post. however, the line "is between caz and the evils" seemed to me to be an attempt to divest himself from the issue. he can do it if he wants, but i dont think thats right.

ashiwi
>My dear, departed grandmother gave me the best advice I ever received in my life. She said "A real sign of maturity is knowing when to pick your battles."
When you fight everything in your path it's an uphill battle. Battling every imagined slight, every offense you could ever receive, just wears you down. When I finally got to the point where I could let most of it roll off my back instead of jumping up in arms over every comment I had a question about (and when you argue about everything, you question everything), I started to realize I was going a lot farther, a lot faster in my goals. At some point, you go from protecting a reputation that needs protecting, to a reputation which protects you.

i dont fight every battle, and while this isnt a wise battle to fight, i felt i needed to fight it based on principle and based on pride. if you just sit and take the shit all the time, maybe someday it will turn all around, maybe someday youll just die having been shit on your whole life. im going to be my own man, not your scape goat. if thats too strong of a personality for you, then im sorry, but i gotta be true to myself. as far as letting shit roll off my back, ive let plenty of shit roll off my back people making fun of me using triggers, people trashing me for being 50 and wearing tiny golden earrings and discords, the first few times people accused me of trading psilks. i dont believe i should let these blatant lies and accusations roll off my back. as far as needing a reputation that protects you rather than protecting your reputation, i follow a lot of good principles imo however im getting trashed for imo being on the wrong side of the fence. ive done a lot of nice and respectable things, then i got sorely trashd for a lie (trading psilks) and now im getting trashed for bitching about tia split (i didnt do that either).

elseenas
>::shakes head:: then you are hopeless and are doomed to leave this MUD in disgrace as a shunned character. Your statement confirms my 5th point: this is more to you than a community and more to you than a game and presently people hate you for it.

people hate me for it, but im still here. ill still play with them if they let me. who is the one in to deep? me or the ones who wont be play with me? who is the one who was wronged here? who is it that posted a detailed and long list of things he thinks he is then dilligently defended everything from a misinterpretation to vicious off topic attacks? and like its so bad being shunned. like no great man was ever condemned incorrectly by the masses. jesus is the example that springs to my mind, im sure there are others for you atheist and agnostics.

btw you are llaalldara right?

>I have never seen the degree of passion I am seeing now about almost any topic on the MUD. Even at the time of the damned split. Todrael and Ragorn, both fairly cool people normally (some exceptions I've seen crop up), flew completely off the handle. Nilan actually broke character.

im surprised people hate me so much. i dont hate anyone here.

>If I were willing to group with you before, I am not willing now. That is the degree to which you have pissed *me* off with this and I am not even involved in it. Back off. Take some time off from the MUD and reevaluate, then I think you'll find that people will respect you more.

why are you pissed off? did i attack you? is what i stated in my original post so horrible that you dont want to associate with me? get off it. for appearing to be well educated and in control of your feelings you say some pretty interesting stuff in that last one.

moritheil
thank you, but i have to disagree with this.

>Now, to Kiryan himself, I'd say: screw the others.

thats exactly the kind of thing i dont ever want to do. im not going to give up on the rest of the people here even if they've given up on me.

yasden
>There's nothing wrong with complaining, but when it's all you ever do...you have to look back and think "when did I stop having fun?" When you figure that out, then you can try to correct the problem. Otherwise, you just proceed further down the spiral, as the pages on this thread can attest to. Wake up Caz, only you can save yourself.

complaining is all i ever do? i rant on the boards plenty, i also make suggestions. in game, I almost never complain about splits or people or guilds or anything. I didnt even complain about tia split, but ive been accused of it. When did i stop having fun? i havent stopped. the game is still fun, i havent run into anyone yet who will not talk to or group with me in game. this thread is not fun, but still necessary imo. sometimes you cant save yourself, sometimes you make mistakes trying to save yourself. im not convinced this is not the right course, im not convinced i need saving from anything. the only thing that is in danger is my reputation and it appears i never had one worth saving. ive got nothing to lose. my friends and the people who know me wont be dissauded by anything here. i can only win.



[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 04-13-2002).]
Ragorn
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Postby Ragorn » Sat Apr 13, 2002 1:21 pm

I apologize for coming on this thread and flaming. I did it once and erased it, because what happens on Sojourn is really none of my business as a retired player. Just writing down my thoughts on things I feel strongly about helps me feel better about them. For every post of mine on the board, there are probably three to five that I write just to make myself feel good, and erase. The hard part about being Ragorn is figuring out when to hit the Back button and when to hit the Send button. Occasionally I make the wrong decision. This time I corrected it before anyone read it.

The second time I posted, with flames and all, was because Caz directly asked me what I thought. Caz, I think you're a fuckhead. I think that's been pretty obvious for a long time, dating back to the ranger/paladin threads when you made my head explode every time I read one of your posts.

Gormal tells me you're cool in real life. He says that you're a totally different person on the mud from real life. Great, if I'm ever in your area, we'll go have a beer. I'll drink with you. I'll talk to you. I'll hit clubs with you. But I wouldn't zone with you because I don't like the person you are on the forums, and I don't like the image I see of the person you are on the mud.

This post has been written... do I hit send, or back?

- Ragorn
I think this one needs to be sent.

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