Theological Discussion

Archive of the Sojourn3 General Discussion Forum.
Zrax
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Postby Zrax » Fri May 31, 2002 5:27 am

Science of the time told us the earth was flat Image

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And shepherds we shall be, for Thee my Lord, for Thee.
Power hath descended forth from Thy hand,
that our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command.
We will flow a river forth unto Thee,
and teeming with souls shall it ever be.
In nomine Patris, et Fili, et Spiritu Sancti.
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Postby Sarvis » Fri May 31, 2002 5:36 am

Nope. Even the ancient Greeks knew that the earth was round by charting the positions of the stars. However, it was heresy to believe that in the christian world... Image

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Postby Kifle » Fri May 31, 2002 11:00 am

to all of you christian men who love the bible so much...

Masturbation is considered a horrible sin and the punishment for this crime against god is cutting off the hand that you commited the crime with.

Lets see you try that with a hook!

"Arrrgghh!"

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Postby Abue » Fri May 31, 2002 11:54 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Kifle:
<B>to all of you christian men who love the bible so much...

Masturbation is considered a horrible sin and the punishment for this crime against god is cutting off the hand that you commited the crime with.

Lets see you try that with a hook!

"Arrrgghh!"
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Christians believe that Jesus died for there sins. Therefore, they can wack off and not have to worry about having there guilty hand cut off so they can make it into heaven. I think this form of punishment was obsoleted along with the sacrifices because Jesus was the altimate sacrificial lamb.
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Postby kiryan » Fri May 31, 2002 12:00 pm

Daz and others especially those that are vehement on the belief that there is no god,

we are all awfully young and ignorant in the grand scope of things. your pretty foolish to say there is no basis and god doesnt exist. you can say the millions of people who do believe are crack smoking weaklings who need a grand deity to justify their existence, and maybe you are right, but you really have no evidence other than your own insignificant observation and capacity to understand.

you could say that your about as informed on the subject as the kings and queens and scientists of europe were regarding the geography of the earth prior to the age of exploration. Unless im mistaken none of you are biblical scholars, nor are any of you reknowned world wide for your education... but rage on.
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Postby Kifle » Fri May 31, 2002 1:10 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Abue:
Christians believe that Jesus died for there sins. Therefore, they can wack off and not have to worry about having there guilty hand cut off so they can make it into heaven. I think this form of punishment was obsoleted along with the sacrifices because Jesus was the altimate sacrificial lamb.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So you are saying that christians carry around the mentality of "I can sin as much as I want. All i have to do at the end of the day is say I am sorry and i can go out and sin tomorrow."

In christianity it also says that all sins are equal. So in your belifs that means that commiting murder and whacking it are the same thing in the eyes of god. And, therefor, means that serial killers can get into heaven too. All they have to do is say "I am sorry" at the end of each day of killing.

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Postby Zrax » Fri May 31, 2002 3:05 pm

Kifle,

From my understanding the key to forgiveness of sin is the indivudual genuinly being sorry for the sin and attempting changes that will prevent them from doing it again.



------------------
And shepherds we shall be, for Thee my Lord, for Thee.
Power hath descended forth from Thy hand,
that our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command.
We will flow a river forth unto Thee,
and teeming with souls shall it ever be.
In nomine Patris, et Fili, et Spiritu Sancti.
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Postby Abue » Fri May 31, 2002 3:34 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Kifle:
So you are saying that christians carry around the mentality of "I can sin as much as I want. All i have to do at the end of the day is say I am sorry and i can go out and sin tomorrow."</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No. I said that Christains believe they do not have to sacrifice to be forgiven. Cutting off body parts falls under the sacrifice catigory. I also said Christians believe Jesus, who was the ultimate sacrificial lamb, died for there sins and is the reason they no longer have to sacrifice. If a christian walks around with the mantality you described they have not truely repented.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"><B>In christianity it also says that all sins are equal. So in your belifs that means that commiting murder and whacking it are the same thing in the eyes of god. And, therefor, means that serial killers can get into heaven too. All they have to do is say "I am sorry" at the end of each day of killing.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am not sure on this one because I am not all knowing but you can redeem your self in the eyes of God in the same way for any sin. Jesus did eat with the tax collector and let the prostitute wash his feet with her tears and hair. Both were forgiven even though the people of the time thought they were both unworthy of forgiveness for they truely repented. As far as that silly line of yours about the killer saying sorry after every day of killing... There is a difference between saying the words "I'm sorry" and truely repenting. In the end it doesn't matter what you or I believe about the situation. Each one of us has to stand before God on judgement day. This is the same for Islam. That suicide bomber might think he is marter but in the end He/She must stand before God by him/her self and be judged.



[This message has been edited by Abue (edited 05-31-2002).]
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Postby Ashiwi » Fri May 31, 2002 3:57 pm

That's that whole "new testament/old testament" argument. Is masturbation mentioned in the new testament as a sin? Personally I don't buy it, the "I know I said that yesterday, but everything's different today" in religion, but once Christ died on the cross the old laws were pretty much tossed out the window.
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Postby Barut » Fri May 31, 2002 4:18 pm

Just a thought- I think it's kind of ironic that otherwise intelligent, rational people truly believe that the universe and life were just created accidently. With all of the scientific advances we've had we still can't create life. All we can do is make an copy of something that already exists. Everyday we walk around and see all of the marvels that exist and then deny that they have a creator. That's about as logical as saying that the Mona Lisa wasn't painted by anything; that it is just the nature of pigments to combine and organize themselves. We aren't here by chance. God made us in his image and put us here to see if we would be obedient.Well, thanks for listening.

Barut
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Postby Grungar » Fri May 31, 2002 4:56 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Kifle:
<B> So you are saying that christians carry around the mentality of "I can sin as much as I want. All i have to do at the end of the day is say I am sorry and i can go out and sin tomorrow."

In christianity it also says that all sins are equal. So in your belifs that means that commiting murder and whacking it are the same thing in the eyes of god. And, therefor, means that serial killers can get into heaven too. All they have to do is say "I am sorry" at the end of each day of killing.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Had to jump in here. We zany Catholics (we're Christian, too! Had many people tell me on several occasions that Catholics != Christian. Heh.) separate sin into two kinds- mortal and venial. While all sin does damage to our relationship to God and distances us from him, mortal sin generally goes a whole heckuva lot more (7 deadlies, for instance). Venial is just your average, every day, run-of-the-mill sin (lying, swearing, etc.). Both are forgivable. All sins are forgivable. Good old-fashioned reconciliation. We go confess our sins with a contrite heart, do penance, and go forth with the intention to sin no more, and bada-bing, those sins are forgiven. Pretty nifty, huh?

Technically, anyone can get into heaven by the infinite grace of God. All He has to do is forgive you. You can say you're sorry all you want, but the words don't matter. It's what's in the heart that matters. God, the all-knowing and all-wise, sees right through crap and lies, can tell when you're sorry and when you're not. Mankind is prone to sin. If I've not learned anything else in my 20 short years on this earth, I've learned this much.

Now I'm not saying that I'm right, and everyone else is wrong. Only time will tell us that. Plus, our church was founded by a man- St. Peter. Not divine. Imperfect. Human. Prone to sin. So as history has shown, we're not necessarily right all the time. I can definitely say that I am proud to be a Catholic, proud to live my life the way I do. Attack, flame, whaddeva, I care not =D

- Grungar "Wait, lemme get this straight- you're monotheistic, and yet you worship the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?" Forgefire

P.S.- You do also realize that you're not going to convince anyone of anything, right? The churchies are going to remain churchies, the agnostics are still going to be agnostic, and the athiests are going to stay athiest. I also must admit I am largely ignorant when it comes to my religion (exactly how many Catholics aren't?), so yeah. Just my silly little observations.


Editeded for typos. Proof reading is good.

[This message has been edited by Grungar (edited 05-31-2002).]
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Postby Ashiwi » Fri May 31, 2002 5:22 pm

Grungar's Catholic... that explains everything.
;P
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Postby Ashiwi » Fri May 31, 2002 5:28 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Grungar:
P.S. The Rastafarians got it right. One love. That's all it really is, one love. And they smoke ganja. People consider pot smokers stoopid... Heh.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not many people get that "God created it for a purpose" idea. How in the world do so many Christians rationalize His creation as evil?
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Postby Zrax » Fri May 31, 2002 5:46 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ashiwi:
<B> Not many people get that "God created it for a purpose" idea. How in the world do so many Christians rationalize His creation as evil?

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

God created alot of things, that doesnt mean they were intended to be rolled up and smoked. Seriously though, i really havnt heard anyone in church really mention pot smoking as a sin outside of the context of it being illegal, and potentialy dangerous to people around you. I have a hard time understanding why people would want to pollute their bodies with something that will destroy their brain and inhibit their abilities for a time but, if it doesnt hurt anyone else, to each their own.



------------------
And shepherds we shall be, for Thee my Lord, for Thee.
Power hath descended forth from Thy hand,
that our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command.
We will flow a river forth unto Thee,
and teeming with souls shall it ever be.
In nomine Patris, et Fili, et Spiritu Sancti.
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Postby Grungar » Fri May 31, 2002 5:47 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ashiwi:
Not many people get that "God created it for a purpose" idea. How in the world do so many Christians rationalize His creation as evil?</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The human mind has this uncanny ability to rationalize almost anything, and it never ceases to amaze me.

Rationalize His creation... Meaning all of existance, or just the 'bad' things in it?

- Grungar "One Bread, One Body, pass the peanut butter" Forgefire
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Postby Grungar » Fri May 31, 2002 5:57 pm

Oh oh oh... Pot!

Maybe God is a Pink Floyd fan?

- Grungar "How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?" Forgefire
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Postby Gort » Fri May 31, 2002 8:08 pm

Read some amusing stuff about the Templars and the advent of the Gothic Cathedrals, sacred geometery among other things, lots of theories about Christianity actually being based on older ancient Egyptian stuff.... history fascinates me.


Toplack

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Postby Zetey » Fri May 31, 2002 10:20 pm

Toplack:

Foucalt's Pendulum by Umberty Eco has a unique take on this exact thing. Pretty interesting book, even if it does get bogged down in parts.

Also got me interested in the Masons -- which my father had been trying to get me to join for a while. Gotta love those secret societies.

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Postby Jenera » Fri May 31, 2002 10:29 pm

I don't believe that science was the factor in the creation of the universe, but nor do I believe that an omnipotent being created everything as well. What does that make me? I love reading the Bible, it is interesting to look for every little detail, contradiction, meaning, etc. but every time I step into a church, I feel like a trapped bird in a cage and also feel contempt for the people who attend and can't explain why.
I'm just confused... -_-

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Postby Kallinar » Sat Jun 01, 2002 4:02 am

Masons...oh man..don't get me started on the lying, kniving, evil sons of dogs that call themselves Masons that I have dealt with in the past. Neo Nazi republicans is the impression I got from the Masons I know, and still talk to from time to time.

But thats just here in my corner of the world. If they are more respectable human beings elsewhere, You have my congratulations.

Moo
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Postby Nitania » Sat Jun 01, 2002 4:24 am

Want a bit of interesting reading? Do some research on Lamech and Tubalcain (for those of you interested in what I refer to as "the Real Dark Side"...)

I enjoy all aspects of researching religion. I find it fascinating to see what people are taught and the history of how religions are founded.

Nitania

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Postby Kifle » Sat Jun 01, 2002 5:38 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Abue:
Christians believe that Jesus died for there sins. Therefore, they can wack off and not have to worry about having there guilty hand cut off so they can make it into heaven. I think this form of punishment was obsoleted along with the sacrifices because Jesus was the altimate sacrificial lamb.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I figured i would have to quote this again for you that missed the point.

The reason I had said all you have to do is say "I'm sorry" was because of this line...

"Therefore, they can wack off and not have to worry about having there guilty hand cut off so they can make it into heaven." -Abue

It is this mentality that upsets me. You know how many Christian people I have met that were total assholes and hypocrites? That whole forgiveness thing is such a cop-out. It is real easy to put somebody down, even though you know it is not the right thing to do, when all you have to do at the end of the day is apologize to god. Whatever happend to not commiting a sin because it was wrong? Now days there are a lot of people that dont care because of this loop hole in the almighty cosmic law.

I am not saying that every Christian is like this. I am also not saying that every Buddhist, Muslim, Athiest, etc... are the opposite. What i was trying to say is that, for a large group of people that do God's work, live through him, or condemn other people for the things that they do even though it is also against most christian ethics to do so, they do it anyway...why?
Because at the end of the day it is all good because they can apologize to god and their slate is clean.

The majority of why I am so upset about this topic and am also, to a great extent, anti-christian, is for this...Yesterday I picked up my local newspaper from a town that has roughly a 30k+ population, and I stumbled upon this article.

Title: Believes Gods opinion matters with sensetive issues.

"I regret that i wasted two hours of my evening watching prime time TV recently. I was personally embarrassed and repulsed by the blatant prmotion of homosexual behavior.

A viewer was made to feel guilty or intolerant if he or she did not accpet open homosexuality.

However, my opinion does not matter here. What does matter is God's opinion (spelled onion in the paper...wonderfully brillaint town i live in). Here are a few of his opinions on this subject taken from the manual of living he wrote:

"Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; That is detestable." Alsow, "Do you not know what the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual ofenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

The shows I watched are trying to influence viewers to consider homosexual behavior as normal and trying to draw more people into this lifestyle that will keep them from God and heaven.

I am sorry, I am not brave enough to accept what God has rejected.

God's manual for living also says: "And this is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the lord Jesus Christ and by the Spiriti of our God."

Homosexual behaviors can and must be stoped; God has said His Spirit will cleane this sin from the lives of those willing to stop practicing it.

These behaviors should not be promoted to the public as acceptable or desireable. Our families and impressionable children must not be influenced by these values and behaviors.

We have a choice between the humanistic contemporary morality called relativism and the unchangeable standard set by God. The unchangeable standards of God are preferred. The changing values of men are irrelevant.

Even the majority of people thinking homosexuality is right does not make it so.

Sincerely,
Floyd Coates,
Lexington"

I dont have to point out the numerous fallicies with this artical. What makes me even more upset is that any newspaper would print this shit...This man obviously is latently homosexual or a horrible fanatic.
On top of this, he doesn't even know that man wrote the bible. Another thing that should have stopped its publishing is the mans obvious hatred and fear of homosexuals. Once more, this man shows his ignorance when blaming the TV for his feelings and behavior of others. It was to my understanding that there were homosexuals before the invention of television, but then again, this guy seems to have all the answers, so i must be wrong.

The last thing that upsets me, is if I were to compose a letter, whether it be agressive or not, about how this point of view is only contributing to the hatred and violence towards homosexuals, blacks, jews, mexicans, etc... it wouldn't even be given a second glance and would be tossed out two seconds after reading it.



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Postby kemi » Sat Jun 01, 2002 5:14 pm

im buddhist!
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Postby gordex » Sun Jun 02, 2002 1:42 am

Here is my take on all this.

Adam and Eve were created by God as stated in the Bible.
The universe as we know it was not created by a mythical, UN-CREATED, "Big Bang". Perhaps a big bang occured, but not nearly the way most scientists (and I take the term scientist with a grain of salt).

Most, if not all "religion", is run by humans who use "religion" as a business, which is highly deplorable by most people. Most people view their "walk with God" synonymous with the word "religion". Thus people have turned from "religion" since its mostly a business these days.

The NIV version of the Bible is NOT an exact duplicate of the original manuscripts and whoever said that needs to look into it more. The KJV 1612 version is the closest you will get to the original manuscripts, and even that is not COMPLETELY exact.

As for metaphors and parables, It says that when the creation occured, a thousand years was as a day and a day was as a thousand years. (Time flys when your having fun?).
It also says the love of money is the root of all evil. I personally take that to mean greed is the root of all evil.

As to the book of Revelations. Try reading it sometime. To date it has been 100% accurate with its prophecies (not all of them fulfilled , obviously), which has been acknowledged by scientists and theologians alike.

It seems to me that creation is a more logical choice than evolution, when given the 2 options. One of the laws of science is that everything deteriorates. Since this is the case, it would seems impossible to me for us to have "evolved" from a single cell amobae into highly sophisicated human bodies.

Another fact is when we landed on the moon. Using the theory that we have been around for billions of years, the moon should have been collecting dust for those billions of years. When we landed there was maybe an inch or 2 of dust, instead of the 5 plus feet they were expecting based on earlier testing.

I forget what all else I was gonna post, but you can mull over this a bit Image


[This message has been edited by gordex (edited 06-01-2002).]
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Postby Kifle » Sun Jun 02, 2002 8:31 am

The book of revelations is just like any other prophet...they such retarded symbolism that it could mean anything...I mean come on, i think in a nostradomus (sp?) prediction he said something about the lion will attack the bear and the tiger will rustle the bush or some crap like that. Erf..this happens everyday in most jungles. Taken as symbolism it could mean anything. If these people were given the power to see into the future by a god, dont you think it could have been a bit more specific...I am sure instead of saying "an upright, stiff snake" he could have said "a large, thin structure with, what seems to be, a shiny outside" to describe a sky scraper. If these people can be credited for writen language and writing an enormous book, dont you think they would have a bit more intelligence in describing things? Sheesh, how did these people play pictionary back then?

As far as the big bang goes, it has just as much credibility as an all-mighty, supreme being that created us for no specific purpose known to us just got bored one day and made us. Creating something out of nothing and the latter are equaly perposterous if you ask me.

The law that everything decays is absolultely correct gordex, but you forgot to remember that within this time of decay things also grow. Take a baby for example, yes as it grows day to day, its life is getting shorter, but yet it is also growing in body and mind. It is very possible for something to decay as well as grow at the same time. As far as a creator being more plausable than evolution? I dont think so. Evolution has been proven. A small form of that can be seen in many species that we currently have living on this earth. Adaptation as far as skin color, teeth, means of using oxygen and many many more things are quite evident to us now. The only people that embrace these facts are those that wont accept that you can have evolution/the big bang/and a creator at the same time. That would be the most believeable, intelligent, and logical choice if you ask me.

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Postby moritheil » Sun Jun 02, 2002 7:00 pm

Kifle wields a fiery broadsword.
Kifle's target is now set to: Your ideals.

Kifle utters the words, 'FLAME ON!'
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Postby Disoputlip » Sun Jun 02, 2002 8:25 pm

It is with great joy that I read your posts. There are many of you that really got something on your heart.

I find it very interesting how you all try to contribute the sign of your world view onto us others in the stroke of a pen, even though you know it is not possible.

I would just like to say, that by reading the posts of various people, I can see who you are. And try to nod at your motives.

It is also much faster than reading Philosohy or the Herman Hesse genre Image

/Disoputlip
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Postby Grungar » Mon Jun 03, 2002 3:19 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Kifle:
What does matter is God's opinion (spelled onion in the paper...wonderfully brillaint town i live in).</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

God's onion does matter. =D

Couple of thoughts on this...
You're always going to have ignorance, intolerance, and injustice. The fact of the matter is that it's easier to hate than to love, easier to exclude than to include, and easier to hold a grudge than to forgive.

You're always going to have propaganda telling you why one group is inferior to another, one group should be eliminated, why all of your problems can be easily pinned on said group. And if you can tack a "in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ" or some other such religion-oriented phrase on there, it makes people feel even more justified and right in their thoughts and actions.

You're going to have assholes of every size, shape, ethnicity, religion, flavor, eye colour, hair colour... Yeah. Just human nature. Does that excuse it or justify it? Naw. Takes that extra little bit to rise above it all. That's why human personalities span the entire spectrum from angelic and saintly to the downright diabolical.

And Kifle, you're right. Your letter would be ignored outright? Why? Because it wouldn't really create public outcry one way or another. Wouldn't help sell any more newspapers. I laugh every time I see ads for the news (when I watch TV, that is). "You MUST watch this. It could SAVE YOUR LIFE!" and it's a segment about how you shouldn't drink Draino or Liquid Plumber. Who is easier to control, to herd? The calm, rational, thinking man? Or the guy with the pitchfork and torch ready to storm Dr. Frankenstein's castle or string someone up from the nearest tree?

Damn, I hate the media.

- Grungar "I worship statues...?" Forgefire
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Postby Grungar » Mon Jun 03, 2002 5:02 pm

Ok I'm bored, so it's time to stir up some trouble in this crazy "My God's better than your God" thread. =D

It's been firmly established that not everyone likes Christians, and not all of the Christian ideals and practices make sense to everyone, Christian and non-Christian alike. For those of you who don't affiliate yourself with a formal religion, what do you believe in? Are there any philosophies you follow? Are there ideals/practices/beliefs/whatever from another religion or culture that you partake in, or think have particular merit?

Yeah, pose that question to all. What particular theologies or parts thereof do you think have merit and why?

Let's try and keep this positive, folks.

- Grungar "Trouble Extraordinaire" Forgefire
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Postby muma » Mon Jun 03, 2002 5:07 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Kifle:
<B>to all of you christian men who love the bible so much...

Masturbation is considered a horrible sin and the punishment for this crime against god is cutting off the hand that you commited the crime with.

Lets see you try that with a hook!

"Arrrgghh!"

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

none of the 10 commandments say anything about masturbation being a sin. if i were a christian i would only consider those 10 things a sin. there are some things god doesn't like but doesn't say it's 1 of the 10 commandments.
also the old testament is a lot different than the new. so....


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Leah A. W.
Grungar
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Postby Grungar » Mon Jun 03, 2002 5:20 pm

The 11th (Lost) Commandment is:
Thump not the Bible, lest the Bible thump ye back.

Breaking commandments = sin, but sin != breaking commandments. Sin is a knowing and willing act or choice committed that distances us from and damages our relationship with God. 'Least that's my understanding of it.

I know, my stuff doesn't make much sense. English is my first and only language, and sometimes it fails me, so I resort to grunts and pointing. Unfortunately, that doesn't work too well on the 'net.

- Grungar "So you eat flesh and drink blood, but you're not a cannibal?" Forgefire


Edit: I really can't write. I'm going to go to the store. I need more Pocky.

[This message has been edited by Grungar (edited 06-03-2002).]
Grungar
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Postby Grungar » Tue Jun 04, 2002 12:34 am

I can never stir up trouble even when I try to. Hmph.

- Grungar "Goody three shoes" Forgefire
Kifle
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Postby Kifle » Tue Jun 04, 2002 5:15 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by muma:
<B> none of the 10 commandments say anything about masturbation being a sin. if i were a christian i would only consider those 10 things a sin. there are some things god doesn't like but doesn't say it's 1 of the 10 commandments.
also the old testament is a lot different than the new. so....


</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Its a good thing at least SOME christians know that just because its not in the ten commandments, doesn't mean its not a sin.


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Kifle "It Slipped I swear!" ButteryFingers

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