Star Wars Episode II discusion good or bad?

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Mishre
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Star Wars Episode II discusion good or bad?

Postby Mishre » Thu May 16, 2002 7:35 am

Well.. my vote is worst of all the star wars so far, but still a decent movie, definetly gonna be in my collection.

what i liked:
yoda fighting.
anakin getting his arm chopped off
(hopefully he wont be such a little arragont bitch so much Image

What i didn't like
1hr 30 mins of love story with a tiny bit of jedi/republic/clone story thrown in
with maybe 30 mins of action, which was good, but nothing that stood out like the duals from episode one vs darth maul or the starship fights in the previous 3 movies.

Yoda fighting, too short Image should have drawn it out more like episode ones duals.

The love story was ok, but i think it was too cheesy and didn't see any good reason for princess to like the arragont prick he just acted like a jackass the entire time so she fell in love with him?

Overall, i would add LOTR to my collection first, followed by spiderman, and 3rd this (as far as new movies go)

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Postby muma » Thu May 16, 2002 7:54 am

Mishri, i can't more than agree with you. Yoda scene awesome but could have been longer. love scenes cheezy. (could have used a better director) LUcas didn't direct the old movies thankfully.

the action and fight scenes were awesome, nice graphics of course.



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Postby Corth » Thu May 16, 2002 8:33 am

Keep talking.. more info along the lines of Anakin getting his arm chopped off and I won't have to see the movie...

Corth

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Postby Trewe » Thu May 16, 2002 12:05 pm

Yeah.. don't mention Yoda's ability to enlarge himself when in danger or anything like that..

You seriously didn't think a little green thing like yoda stands a chance in a real battle the way he is did you? Image


Trewe -=CrocHunter=-

[This message has been edited by Trewe (edited 05-16-2002).]
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Postby Jegzed » Thu May 16, 2002 12:32 pm

OMFG, Natalie Portman looks good..

Anyway, the movie is good, and I love the stormtroopers fighting together with jedi's.



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Postby Malacar » Thu May 16, 2002 1:55 pm

I liked it a lot more than episode 1.

The yoda fighting scene was trash, imo. He went from the oldskool hobbling yoda, to ninjayoda in 1.1seconds flat. The CGI of him throughout the movie was crap too, imo. Bring back the puppet. Image

Overall, I gave it a solid 7.5/10. I gave phantom menace a 5/10, so I was moderately surprised.

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Postby Aedaris » Thu May 16, 2002 4:05 pm

Anakin is a punk. They should have cut off his leg too. - yeah he is annoying

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Postby muma » Thu May 16, 2002 5:43 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Malacar:
<B>The CGI of him throughout the movie was crap too, imo. Bring back the puppet. Image
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agree, puppet was better.



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Postby Daak » Thu May 16, 2002 7:22 pm

I liked Ep2 a lot more than Ep1, mainly because it wasn't so "childish". The went overboard making EP1 into some foolish cartoon for kids to laugh at.

However, I still think the enitre ending fight in EP1, from the Hanger battle to mainly OB1 vs Darth Maul was the best fight scene yet.

The angles in EP2 were changed to quickly, there were no sustained angles of anyone fighting. (The sustained angle in EP1 mentioned above was awesome)

It was my understanding that women go for the a-hole rountine until it comes back and and bits them, then they look for the nice guy Image

The clones were cool though, it was like the old Helicopter calavery, very cool.
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Postby Kuurg » Thu May 16, 2002 7:25 pm

Wooden dialogue, a complete lack of chemistry between Hayden Christensen and natalie Portman, and a disjointed, befuddled and obfuscated storyline made for a difficult watch.
Add to this that young Vader comes off as a whiny angst-ridden youth with an inferiority complex, and I was about ready to cry.

Conversely, the fight scene between Jango Fett and Obi Wan, the huge jedi battle and Yoda's incredible battle with Christopher Lee (Dooku) made for some of the best action sequences in any of the star wars movies.

Ewan McGregor was wonderful as Obi Wan.

This movie blew Phantom Menace out of the water, but ultimately they lack the cohesive storyline and engaging characters that 4,5 and 6 had.

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Postby muma » Thu May 16, 2002 7:53 pm

hAHAHAHAH, looka theese:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Somehow Obi-Wan ends up on a droid factory planet pursuing Jango and Boba and he gets caught by the dread Count Dooku/Darth Tyranus/Saruman the White/Christopher Lee. Count Doofus tells him about some plot involving the Senate and the separatists that is entirely too confusing for this sort of movie. In short, he asks Obi-Wan to join him, and Obi essentially tells him to go fuck himself. Count Doodu responds to the snubbing by amassing a huge army of orcs, er, droids, and leaving Obi-Wan trapped in a tower until he is rescued by a giant owl.
</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
from: http://features.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=32731&threshold=1&commentsort=0&tid=101&mode=thread&cid=3530303

heh

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Postby Yayaril » Thu May 16, 2002 8:31 pm

Best star wars movie I've seen yet. When Yoda went down into that fighting stance, I knew some ass was going to get stomped. The little muppet went from hobbling crone to Juicer-speedfreak and I loved every second of it. Go Yoda!

The movie had some of the most beautiful cinematography I've seen to date.

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Postby Mishre » Thu May 16, 2002 10:49 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Corth:
<B>Keep talking.. more info along the lines of Anakin getting his arm chopped off and I won't have to see the movie...

Corth

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

hmm why did you look into this discussion if you haven't seen the movie? (boggle)

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Postby Gromikazer » Fri May 17, 2002 9:12 am

OMG...
The thread is titled..

Star wars discussion good or bad?

SO i came to say star wars discussion is bad you bad people.. wait until AT LEAST the second day.. yeesh :P

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Postby Jurdex » Fri May 17, 2002 9:27 am

The movie totally ruled.

Yoda's fight scene was absolutely awesome! Man! C'mon, you think he got to be 800+ years old hobbling around on a cane? Image

Obi-Wan was of course fabulous, but some of the Anakin scenes were just.. odd.

I loved the intricate plot and storyline, and I thought it was arguably the best Star Wars film yet.

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Postby rylan » Fri May 17, 2002 12:56 pm

Yup, I have to rate this up there with Empire Strikes Back.

Obi-Wan was great, cinematography kicked ass, some nice subtle foreshadowing, awesome overall darker feel. And we got to see where all those damned storm troopers actually come from.. hehehe
I'm goin to see it again in the theater near me that has a digital projector.. roar
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Postby Teyaha » Fri May 17, 2002 3:00 pm

the cinematrography was good.
the music was good.
the script was bad.

lucas did NOT direct empire strikes back.

he has clearly lost his cynicism. he writes these movies for the kids, but if empire was a new movie today it would be PG-13 or maybe even R because of the dark content.

many of the authors in this game have written better love stories than this. it was so forced, got the feeling that it was going to happen no matter how stupid hayden looked or acted. (duh). at least with empire there was fighting and rebellion before leia realized she loved him. it was more real.

all in all it was worth the price of admission to see the jedi battle and the yoda fight. i knew anakin would start losing parts of his body soon, since as darth vader he's "mostly machine now, twisted and evil", just didnt expect it that soon.

MY CONCERNS for the next movie, having read every single book that's ever been published, including the comic books and the very crappy lando calrissian trilogy...

1) the clones are unstable due to the rapid growth process. they start to go insane and only have a life of about 7-10 years. will this happen in the next episode

2) the clone handlers are the ones who start the war with the new republic. somehow these clone handlers dont seem vicious enough

3) lucas' own admission that he makes these movies for him, does not take into consideration fan/critic feedback and doesnt really care what you think disturbs me, as he's clearly lost his touch in the writing department.

4) there are a LOT of subplots going on and unanswered since episode I. will he tie them all together or leave them hanging.

well i've been itching to see a grand jedi battle since R.A. Salvatore started writing the Yuzhan Vhong into the series and after reading some of Michael Stackpole's epic battles afterwards. It delivered, but was too short in that respect.
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Postby Elseenas » Fri May 17, 2002 3:19 pm

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">but ultimately they lack the cohesive storyline and engaging characters that 4,5 and 6 had.</font>


Have you even seen Episode IV recently? Seriously, I think some people have some seriously rose-colored lenses when they think about Episodes 4 and 6 (okay okay, I'll concede that Empire just rocked).



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Postby Sarvis » Fri May 17, 2002 3:59 pm

I thought it was a great movie. The love scenes weren't that great, but since htey were interspersed with things like Obi Wan fighting Jengo(sp?) Fett it didn't bother me. Plus, seeing Padme is always a good thing. Image

Malacar: You seem to have forgotten Rule One: "Do not act incautiously when confronting a little bald wrinkly smiling man!" - Terry Pratchett - Thief of Time



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Postby muma » Fri May 17, 2002 4:11 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Teyaha:
<B>the cinematrography was good.
the music was good.
the script was bad.

lucas did NOT direct empire strikes back.

he has clearly lost his cynicism. he writes these movies for the kids, but if empire was a new movie today it would be PG-13 or maybe even R because of the dark content.

many of the authors in this game have written better love stories than this. it was so forced, got the feeling that it was going to happen no matter how stupid hayden looked or acted. (duh). at least with empire there was fighting and rebellion before leia realized she loved him. it was more real.

all in all it was worth the price of admission to see the jedi battle and the yoda fight. i knew anakin would start losing parts of his body soon, since as darth vader he's "mostly machine now, twisted and evil", just didnt expect it that soon.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

100% agreed



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Postby sok » Fri May 17, 2002 5:47 pm

it was awesome. i especially like the way he can climb the walls and hang upside down on a web.

sok

ps kristen dunst is hot.
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Postby Caedym » Fri May 17, 2002 9:42 pm

I agree the love scene lines were a tad over the top, but you all have to remember, Anakin has been jerking off over Padma for 7-10 years about her, maybe with no hands and just the force. Course he’s gonna need a cold shower around her. Who wouldn’t? Portman is a hottie! If you just met the girl you’ve been wanking it over for that long when you were 17ish, you’d be sprouting goofy shit too.

Also remember, Lucas wasn’t directing this movie at just the kids, like he did with Episode 1, but at EVERYONE. There was stuff in there for everyone, and most women I know don’t jump up and down about seeing star wars movies to do how they are the black hole of romance for the most part.


I had so many issues with Episode 1, I spent a month solid talking about it’s discrepancies and problems 5+ hours a day. Lucas DID listen to the criticism he got on Episode 1 and rectified as much as he could. He admitted not listening to anyone when making Episode 1, and this time he listened a lot more. Notice the EXTREME leash that was put on Jar jar? He was EP1 Jar jar for like 15 seconds and that was it. And I like the idea that because of him, the whole universe gets phocked over. To me, that was better then killing him off. Which I’m still hoping will happen.

Did you even HEAR anything about metachlorines this time? Noooooooooooo.

Did you see Yoda taking blood samples of the young children in jedi training? Noooooooooo.

Did the main Darth Jedi die this time at the end by some lame Jedi flip over him this time? Noooooooooo.

Did the jedi, while fighting on a organic planet, suddenly find themselves within the interior of the freaking death star? Noooooooooo.

Where all comedic elements based on the actions of ONE character? Noooooooooo.

Did Lucas listen to the fans who wanted to see and hear more about Boba Fett? Yesssssssss.

Etc, etc, etc.

So don’t gimmie that crap he didn’t listen, cuz he apparently did.

No I didn’t think Anakin’s acting was all that great either. That was the worst part. His arrogance didn’t build more and more and get bolder and bolder, it seemed to go the other way til the point he wouldn’t argue with Padma. (Sounds like he’s ready for marriage if you ask me. :P)


It was a dam good movie and an excellent installment to the series, and an ESPECIALLY good 5th movie in a movie series. (In terms of order made)


Personally, they coulda cut a few of the mushy romance scenes and extended the scene where he finds his mother and goes ape shit on the Sand-people. I wanted to SEE HIM go berserk, not hear him crying about it after the fact. Boooo! They coulda played the Imperial Death March music during that entire time and I’d be doing backflips!

Hey, you know when Yoda went into his attack stance in his fight? I was waiting for him to wave Dootuk in like Neo did in Matrix to the Agent in the subway Image


Thumbs Up!




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Postby izarek » Fri May 17, 2002 11:16 pm

Caedym, excellent analysis. I agree 100%.

Good movie overall. Good addition to the series. Way better than Episode I. I just wish Jar Jar woulda been nukked in one of the scenes. He owed us that much.

Yes, the core group didnt have the chemistry of the core group in the middle trilogy. Why? Cuz of whiny Anikin. Yeah, the love stuff was unbearable at times. Why? Cuz of creepy Anikin.

BUT

This all makes sense in the context of the entire story. You're supposed to understand why he is driven to the dark side. It makes sense and I accept it as such and focus on the parts I liked: excellent visuals, battles, jedi fights and Yoda whoopass (tm).

The dark flavor of it all was quite refreshing after Episode 1. I LOVED seeing how they blended in shit from the middle trilogy (storm troopers, star destroyers, Fett, etc). I'm definately looking forward to Episode 3, when all hell breaks loose!

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[This message has been edited by izarek (edited 05-17-2002).]
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Postby gordex » Fri May 17, 2002 11:37 pm

Natalie Portman: decent job, looks good.
Anakin: decent job
Obi-Wan: good job
Jar-Jar: infinitely better (much less time on-screen) Image

Needs about 20 more minutes of fight scenes and 20 less of the romance stuff. I too wanted to see Anakin go off on those dudes after his ma died.

They got across the story they wanted, although too much emphasis on the love story.

The computer graphics were cheesy at times, but for the most part pretty well done.

Should see at least once on the big screen!

My rank on the saga so far
1. Episode 4 (A New Hope)
2. Episode 5 (The Empire Strikes Back)
3. Episode 2 (Attack of the Clones)
4. Episode 6 (Return of the Jedi)
5. Episode 1 (Jar-Jar Ruined My Day)

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Postby Jenera » Sat May 18, 2002 7:57 am

Went to go see the movie tonight. As I was limping and my friend borrowed my crutches just to have some fun faking, the usher at the multiplex escorted us to the beginning of the line so I could get to the handicapped section easier. The girl behind us kept bitching in a voice just loud enough for us and the person behind her to hear about me being a faker trying to get to the best seat while we waiting for the employees to clean up. When they opened the doors and as I was limping in, she shoves me aside and makes my friend fall down so she can be the first person to take a seat with her boyfriend. As she is running for the seat, she yells at us that she didn't make my friend fall and that fakers should not be allowed to watch movies. I don't know whether I am angry for inconsiderate people or whether I feel pity for this girl who would be so nasty just so she could sit in the theater first. I understand my friend was faking, but she would have done that to me if I had the crutches and I would have probably broken my leg again. That began my bad evening and then....


I thought the movie was terrible and didn't give it a chance due to nausea.
After about an hour, my friend and I walked out of the theater and cried on each other's shoulders while feeling dirty for having paid 10 dollars to see it.
We came back to my house and watched Spiderman on her laptop to cleanse my soul Image

We plan to see the nauseating movie beginning to end when she downloads it, in the comfort of her house, so we can make our obnoxious comments without having people throw popcorn at us Image

Spiderman was the saving grace of my evening

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Postby Teyaha » Sat May 18, 2002 2:53 pm

the worst part is that behaviour like that is endorsed throughout the country Image


my last feeling is that if you plan to see it, find a digital projectioni theater. although the technology is there to make amazing digital video, the technology to burn those digital originals to film for projection is NOT there. i've seen it twice now, first time on digital projection second on regular film projection. the film one looked bad Image contrasty, murky and dark.
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Postby Mishre » Sat May 18, 2002 3:47 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Teyaha:
<B>the worst part is that behaviour like that is endorsed throughout the country Image
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dunno where that behaviour is endoresed.. if i ever see things like that going on i step in.. and i know a lot of ppl who would too..

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Postby Thurg » Sat May 18, 2002 4:47 pm

Yoda is my new god.

Anyways this one was infinitely better then EP 1.

*goes back to worshipping Yoda*

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Postby Waelos » Sat May 18, 2002 6:43 pm

Attack of the Clowns, would be more appropriate for this film, unfortunately. (first of all, the title is stupid. This is the beginning of the Clone Wars. . . really, 'Attack of the clones' sounds like a bad B movie and has so little to do with the film) anyway. I digress. It was all I could do to not play 'Mystery Science Theater' with the girl I was with and laugh throughout the film. We're still laughing.

OK, who, in their right mind, would be afraid of someone named 'Count Dooku'? c'mon. get that shit out of your brain George and summon up something that would strike fear in someone's heart. When Obiwan was in his 'captivity' and Dooku says 'join me' I _totally_ expected Obiwan to snicker and say 'by the force I will never join you! besides, who would want to join with someone with such a stupid name, Count Poopoo! Count Dookie! etc, ad infinitum.' And then the Count would hide his face behind his cloak and say 'Hahahhaha! you will regret that decision, Jedi! see! One attack droid! HAHAHA! Two, TWO attack droids! HAHAHA'

The gladitorial scene? hello? Aniken Maximus? "we have a better chance of surviving if we stay together!" Then, the _cheezey_ Rodeo scene (giddyap, Moocowthing! Heeya!) And the old tribute to Ben Hur, with the dragging behind the chariot parts. *roll*

Please someone explain to me how Padme's outfit stayed so pristine and clean throughout the whole ordeal. Also, please explain to me how a slash from a claw on her BACK teears off the entire midriff of her outfit. DISCLAIMER: Natalie Portman is probably the most attractive woman I've seen and I appreciate her sharing her 8 pack with us. Praise be to GOd!)

The whole scene with Anakin falling thousands of feet onto another speeding car was just too much to believe. had it been like 10 feet, I could've bought using the Force to cushion the impact or whatever. .. but c'mon. give me a _little_ realism in my fantasy realm please.

Anakin was a whiney, over confident, prick with no freaking clue what he was about. Girls, tell me. . .if your new boyfriend came back and told you he just slain a whole tribe of people, women and children included (no matter what the reason). . . are YOU going to cuddle him and say 'aw, he's just misunderstood'.

I might just be dense. . .but someone explain to me the plot? Why the hell were they trying to kill Padme? Wasn't it Senator Palpatine who said 'GEE I WISH SHE WAS HERE TO VOTE ME INto the supreme chancellor position', or what not? How does she do that when dead? Jar Jar ended up doing it anyway. . .(so blame that dumbass on all the Galaxy's problems!). Ultimately I thought that Palpatine wanted control over the clones. . . so he wanted to get that 'supreme power of war' vote or whatever. . . but he wanted to get it through Padme. . . uh, so why kill her. The who separatist movement seems stupid and contrived. . . Dookie tells Obiwan that the senate is controlled by the Sith. . .but he's working for the Sith. . DUh. . . I feel it would've been FAR more interesting to have the Separatists be their own thing, separate from Palpatine. . trying to Kill padme so Palpatine doesn't get control of the Clone army. .. or whatevery. . . Lucas is a bonehead.

Other fun things in the movie: When Jengo was killed by Mace and his head is chillin' on the dusty ground, and poor little Boba (laugh) goes over to pick it up. . shouldn't the HEAD have fallen out?! I was saying 'SHAKE IT OUT! SHAKE IT OUT!' and laughing manically in the theater. snicker.

When Padme looks at Anakin and says 'I wub joo' I burst out with 'LIAR!' in the queit theater. I thought it was a riot.

Poor Samuel. . .he can't pull this part off. He is one of the most talented actors in existance, in my opinion. . but he sucks as a Jedi.

What the hell were those little bug things with wings? Are they all slain in the next movie and thats why we never see them in 4 5 or 6?

The Yoda Fight scene was absolutely ridiculous. The whole Tiger Claw Tai Chi shit was over the top and . . .campy. Yoda hobbles around or uses levitation discs 99% of his life because he's a near cripple, yet he goes into some crack induced ninjitsu crap at an instant's notice? GImme a break. and Yoda had such a hard time with that dumbass pole that was going to fall on Obiwan and Anakin yet Count Poopoo snapped it off like a twig with his mind and had time to run away? *YAWN*

Was the movie better than Ep 1? hell yeah. (no Jarar, more Natalie's sexy bod...)

Honestly, looking back 4 and 5 (New Hope and Empire) were the best films. Jedi was crap. They got on this kick of adding some stupid ass comic 'cute' relief with Ewoks, Jarjar, and other inumerable shit to sell toys to 10 year olds. I hope someday, before I die, someone does a remake of these films as the serious space epics they SHOULD be, and not the childish marketing romps that they are now.

the best actors in the film? Ewan (Obiwan) was phenomenal. Props to him. Padme was decent. . . The stormtroopers were really good too. Not sure why that struck me as such. anyway. I've ranted long enough. All that said, I'll go see it again, just to catch what I missed =)

The movie was VERY entertaining, I'll give it that =)

LOST

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Postby Yayaril » Sat May 18, 2002 7:08 pm

Have you watched A New Hope or Empire Strikes Back, lately? These films are host to bad effects, cheesy dialogue, and goofy action. They are chocked full of silly comic relief antics. They aren't that great of films. What makes them seem great is the fact that we all grew up with them. During the time we first saw them, we were younger and more naive. Ever watch a show that you haven't seen since you were a kid that was made for kids? Does it seem not as great as when you were a kid? Do you still enjoy it and think it's wonderful even though it's pretty weak?

The Thundercats. I loved that show. I thought that show was the best around. I watch it now and realize how goofy it is. I still love it. People put episode 4, 5, and 6 on silver platters. Despite the fact that these films have all the flaws of the newer movies- because people are so fanatic about them, they ignore them. Then, when a new film comes out- they get all hyped up about a new star wars film, and of course it's going to disappoint them compared to what they built it up to in their head. The new film is definitely going to disappoint them compared to what the old films were built up to in their head. There's no winning.

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Postby Waelos » Sat May 18, 2002 7:16 pm

Eh, I dunno Yaya. . . I've watched 4 5 and 6 recently too. . . the effects were good for their time, now they're cruddy by comparison. . .but still. . I'll always have a problem with a movie where the toys come out before the movie =) snicker

(Thundercats would STILL be cool if it wasn't for Snar Snar..err Jarf. . .err Snarf!)

LOST

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Postby Sarvis » Sun May 19, 2002 12:14 am

"I might just be dense. . .but someone explain to me the plot?"

'k. Senator Palpatine didn't want Padme dead, it was the Trade Federation guys who were part of the separatist movement that wanted her dead. Dooku only went along with that plan in order to gain the Trade Federation's loyalty for the separatist movement. Of course, the entire separatist thing was arranged by Palpatine in order for him to have a reason to raise an army (which he had started building 10 years earlier.) Had there been no separtists, he could _never_ have been given emergency military powers or whatever it was. But There would be little reason for a planet (or planets) to want to separate themselves from a well run, peaceful republic (Could you imagine California leaving the US?) so he had to arrange for that to happen himself. I doubt Palpatine cared one way or the other about Padme, especially once he had the more gullible JarJar in the senate seat. (Seriously, this is probably the weakest part of the movie... how could Padme be _that_ stupid as to put JarJar in power?)

"What the hell were those little bug things with wings? Are they all slain in the next movie and thats why we never see them in 4 5 or 6?"

There's a _lot_ of things we don't see in 4, 5 and 6. It seems relatively safe to say that the bug thigns just weren't in any way important in those movies. Just like wookies aren't important outside of Chewbacca's existance... heh.

"<I>The Yoda Fight scene was absolutely ridiculous.[i]"

Go find the master of any martial arts school, the older the better. Then throw a punch at him and see what happens. Yoda will seem _tame_ by comparison... Image

"[i]Please someone explain to me how Padme's outfit stayed so pristine and clean throughout the whole ordeal. Also, please explain to me how a slash from a claw on her BACK teears off the entire midriff of her outfit.</I>"

I don't care how it got ripped, I'm just glad it DID! Image Seriously though, many movies have that problem with clothes not getting dirty... :shrug: I didn't even notice actually... probably too distracted by the part of the uniform that wasn't there. Image



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Postby Teyaha » Sun May 19, 2002 5:06 am

I've read every single book put out in the star wars mantle, including the mandalorian armor trilogy and the lame ass lando calrissian trilogy.

the way the clone wars are supposed to work: (already been mapped out many years ago)

the clones are the republics answer to the trade federation's army in the movies. in the books there's no trade federation and the republic didnt use the clones. they fought the cloners and were losing until the cloners attempted to accelerate the growth process. this left the clones unstable. (turns out it's because the presence of the force, since such accelerated growth is unnatural. Grand Admiral Thrawn solved this with ysalimiri)

i hope he doesnt radically change this, becaus it puts all of the books in a bad spot.


why is palpatine doing what he's doing with padme etc.?

well assuming you have already figured out that palpatine is the future emporer, everything he's doing is to eliminate the jedi council, the senate and build an army and a base of power for himself. it's still unknown who palpatine's master is, i speculate Exar Kun in some form, but i dunno.

he wants amidala killed because she leads the loyalist party - the party OPPOSED to the creation of any army. the first attempt just killed her decoy, the second attempt was thwarted. so he played the jedi against themselves when they ordered her to return to naboo, and played jar jar binks to forward the motion that she herself would never give.

there are a lot of loopholes that are being filled with SHITTY writing. i went and saw it for the third time today and after seeing how empty the theater was compared to how sold out spider man was i can only hope he'll ask stackpole/anderson/zahn/salvatore to help with the script a bit. wishful thinking after seeing his interviews.

then again he clearly has no love for the books he's already approved. in the phantom menace during the scene when amidala's bodyguard enters and says that palpatine has been nominated to succeed chancellor velorem, he says 'bale antilles of alderaan' as another candidate.

1) antilles is a corellian name, wedge's surname. he was not born yet, but his parents owned a refueling station during this time.

2) bale's last name was organa.

Image


this may seem nerdy, but the star wars books are really really good even if taken apart from the movies. the best ones in my opinion are:

the ENTIRE X-Wing series, all 9 books are consistent and amazing.

I, Jedi by Michael Stackpole

anything by michael stackpole

the hand of thrawn duology

the entire new jedi order series

the black fleet crisis


rambling. i have high hopes for the third movie, since anakin becomes darth at this rate. it was my understanding that he was married and had kids before finally falling. i guess we'll see if lucas follows what was already laid down.

waelos - those bugs are geonosians and they dont turn up later. neither to troydarians (watto) nor a lot of the aliens seen here. the empire is a racist regime akin to nazi germany, and palpatine was known to wipe out entire races or use them for experimentation.
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Postby Shevarash » Sun May 19, 2002 9:14 am

I liked it alot. Unlike Episode 1, it imparted that grand feeling of intergalatic adventure that the originals delivered, and that's all I was looking for.

Further analysis is pointless...you either enjoyed it, or spent too much time heckling iit to figure out the plot. *nudge waelos* Image



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Postby Sarvis » Sun May 19, 2002 9:35 am

"The movie was VERY entertaining, I'll give it that =)" - Waelos

Oh yeah, forgot to say this: If you go to a movie for any other reason, it's the wrong form of entertainment for you.

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Postby rylan » Sun May 19, 2002 4:47 pm

big *nods* to shev and sarvis here. Image

Everyone is overanalyzing the plots looking for loopholes and crap.. Geez, it had a great epic feel to it and showed some insight into the future movies. Image
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Postby Tasan » Sun May 19, 2002 8:06 pm

I wish I could write a movie/story that was so bad people felt the need to see it more than 1x to rip on it more.
Image

Twyl

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[This message has been edited by Tasan (edited 05-19-2002).]
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Postby Teyaha » Sun May 19, 2002 8:42 pm

the second and third times i saw it i fell asleep. my friend woke me up when mace had his purple lightsaber held at boba fett's throat and said 'this party's over.'

i only there for the battles 2nd and third times.
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Postby Gort » Mon May 20, 2002 3:12 pm

I enjoyed it quite a lot, saw it on a huge digital screen, only complaint, I had to hold off going to the bathroom because I didn't want to miss anything. And judging from the line in the mens room, so did everyone else.

I thought it would have been an interesting twist if Dooku was actually the only one who saw the Chancelor being a Sith, and was truly a good guy, then Anakin killing him and removing the last major obstacle to him becoming Emperor? Or was that just me? I did like that he was a Sith, and seemed to gather that he'd replaced Darth Maul as the Emperor's disciple. You could also see The Chancelor grooming Anakin to replace him.

As to Yoda, I've known many martial arts masters who seem frail till its go time. Then look out! I was amused by the whole kung fu theater look of his fighting, but it was cool.

Little noticed by most, the end of the movie Padme and Anakin tied the knot. That was their wedding ceremony there by the lake.

I would've liked to see him go off on the sand people, but you could see enough of him giving himself over to his hatred in other scenes.

I kept seeing the scene in Return of the Jedi where the Emperor is telling Luke to do that very thing, and it was all I could do not to repeat the words when Anakin was about to do that very thing. I also got the feeling that toward the end of the movie, the council or at least Yoda realized Anakin wasn't "the one" but that his course of action would produce "the one" in Luke.

I'll likely see it again, just to get even more out of it.


Toplack

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Postby Elseenas » Mon May 20, 2002 3:26 pm

Gort:

In a way, it was Anakin who brings balance to the force. It is his critical decisions and actions in Return of the Jedi which brought balance.

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Postby Zrax » Mon May 20, 2002 4:42 pm

The part I don't get and really hated was that his mother was a damn slave for 10 years while he is training to be a jedi, one of the powerful groups in the galaxy and he doesnt make the trip to go free her, or buy her freedom and then he is going to be so concerned about her now? It made about as much sense as his mother living just long enough for him to get there to see her alive. Movie was fun overall. Reached an all time low with the c3po "what a drag line". So strange how the silver, superships of the past evolved into rough looking ships like x-wings and tie fighters, but I was entertained so i guess it was a good movie by that standard.
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Postby muma » Mon May 20, 2002 4:51 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Zrax:
The part I don't get and really hated was that his mother was a damn slave for 10 years while he is training to be a jedi, one of the powerful groups in the galaxy and he doesnt make the trip to go free her, or buy her freedom and then he is going to be so concerned about her now? It made about as much sense as his mother living just long enough for him to get there to see her alive.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Yea i was thinkin the same thing.


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Postby Shevarash » Mon May 20, 2002 5:51 pm

Think back to Episode 1. Jedi, due to their roles as neutral peacekeepers, are required to give up all attachments to their former lives, so they can judge without bias. Anakin would not have been allowed to visit his mother for this reason.

As to Anakin being the "one" who brings balance to the force..what makes you think he isn't? During the time of the Republic, there are thousands of Jedi and how many Sith? 2.

By the time A New Hope takes place, there are 2 Jedi (Obi and Yoda), and 2 Sith (Vader and the Emperor) - voila, balance! Where'd all the Jedi go? Vader (Anakin) killed them - either directly or indirectly. Thus he has brought balance to the force. The Jedi just didn't grasp the true meaning of the prophecy.

Just speculation though, obviously. Image

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Postby Sylvos » Mon May 20, 2002 6:33 pm

THANK YOU Shev, for being one of the first people to hold the same opinion as me.

Anakin/Vader along with the empire eliminates the gross inbalance in the Force between the dark and light. Ultimately, Vader recreates an inbalance by offing the emperor and then dying, but you can't expect someone to do everything right. Image

Haven't seen the show yet, hopin to get out to see it sometime this week.

As for Yoda having a harder time catching a falling pillar or whatever, than Dooku had with it you have to consider that Dooku had gravity on his side. Image

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Postby Guest » Mon May 20, 2002 6:36 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Shevarash:
<B>As to Anakin being the "one" who brings balance to the force..what makes you think he isn't? During the time of the Republic, there are thousands of Jedi and how many Sith? 2.

By the time A New Hope takes place, there are 2 Jedi (Obi and Yoda), and 2 Sith (Vader and the Emperor) - voila, balance! Where'd all the Jedi go? Vader (Anakin) killed them - either directly or indirectly. Thus he has brought balance to the force. The Jedi just didn't grasp the true meaning of the prophecy.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

this is the way I've always interpreted the prophecy. the funny thing about prophecies is that they don't usually turn out the way you expect them to.

that, or the other theory that anakin is really the one who defeats the emperor in ROTJ, thereby quelching the menace of the sith.

--D2


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Postby Elseenas » Mon May 20, 2002 7:07 pm

Shev:

You want to be *absolutely* technical and keeping with books and comics (which, so far, is the only clear evidence as to Palpatine) then there are more "Dark Force Users" and "Light Force Users" then would be indicated by the movies themselves (e.g., Mara Jade).

Even within the movies, whether you should count the "other Skywalker" is another question as well.

Just fewer sticky issues arise with the interpretation of Anakin's slaying of The Emperor Image

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Postby Teyaha » Mon May 20, 2002 7:22 pm

Lucas says he's not taking into consideration the stuff from the books and the graphic novels.

oh how i wish he would, but he's not.
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Postby izarek » Mon May 20, 2002 7:59 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Sylvos:
<B>As for Yoda having a harder time catching a falling pillar or whatever, than Dooku had with it you have to consider that Dooku had gravity on his side. Image

Sylvos</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just couldnt stop wondering...what ever happened to the size doesnt matter stuff from Empire Strikes Back (i.e. raising the Xwing)???

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Postby Lazus » Mon May 20, 2002 8:16 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Teyaha:
<B>why is palpatine doing what he's doing with padme etc.?

well assuming you have already figured out that palpatine is the future emporer, everything he's doing is to eliminate the jedi council, the senate and build an army and a base of power for himself. it's still unknown who palpatine's master is, i speculate Exar Kun in some form, but i dunno.

he wants amidala killed because she leads the loyalist party - the party OPPOSED to the creation of any army. the first attempt just killed her decoy, the second attempt was thwarted. so he played the jedi against themselves when they ordered her to return to naboo, and played jar jar binks to forward the motion that she herself would never give.

there are a lot of loopholes that are being filled with SHITTY writing. i went and saw it for the third time today and after seeing how empty the theater was compared to how sold out spider man was i can only hope he'll ask stackpole/anderson/zahn/salvatore to help with the script a bit. wishful thinking after seeing his interviews.

then again he clearly has no love for the books he's already approved. in the phantom menace during the scene when amidala's bodyguard enters and says that palpatine has been nominated to succeed chancellor velorem, he says 'bale antilles of alderaan' as another candidate.

1) antilles is a corellian name, wedge's surname. he was not born yet, but his parents owned a refueling station during this time.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Antilles is the Smith of the Star Wars universe. Yes, Wedge's last name was Antilles, as was Bail Antilles of Alderaan. He was the former owner of C-3P0 and R2D2 before Episode 4. However, Bail Antilles and Wedge Antilles are not related in any way.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">2) bale's last name was organa.</font>

Bail Antilles and Bail Organa are two different people. They are both from Alderaan, one (Organa) being the adopted father of Leia, and the other (Antilles) being the Senator for Alderaan during the Republic era. I believe that Bail Organa succeeded Antilles in the Galactic Senate shortly before it was disbanded and the Empire founded.

My questions about the movie are this: Who is this Cipher Dias? My friends and I have been wondering a lot about this. Obi-Wan says that Cipher Dias was killed ten years ago. Is this a Jedi cover up? Is this Cipher Dias someone we know better as a different name? Think about it. Cipher Dias. Ci Dias. Sidious. I dunno...it's a stretch, but it could be right. Perhaps Palpatine was once known, in the Jedi order, as Cipher Dias. He faked his death, and became Palpatine. Rose to power by using his fantastic manipulation skills, and eventually became the Chancellor. Sidious then shows his face in Ep I, raising Darth Maul. Maul is killed by Obi-Wan. Sidious gets a new apprentice, a former Jedi named Dooku, and makes him a Sith Lord. Anyway, that's all my theory, at least for the moment. I suppose I've got 2 or 3 years to think about this theory, unless they come out with a book or comic series that deals with this...I can only hope.

My two coppers,
Lazus

[This message has been edited by Lazus (edited 05-20-2002).]
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Postby Gort » Mon May 20, 2002 8:17 pm

Good point Shev and Elseenas, was looking short term, not big picture on him. With the big picture view, I agree totally w/ you, and that prophecies are rarely what you think they will be.


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