Definition of Agility & Dexterity?

[Nokie]

There is talk about all stats being important or possibly the meaning of some changing.
I don't suppose we could get someone to quickly explain the differences between Dexterity and Agility? I was never quite sure what the differences were and which of the two were more important for stealthy-type stuff, armor class, etc?

Thanks,
Nokie Quickfingers!

[cherzra]

Agility is your quickness, e.g. trolls are very agile whereas ogres are a slow big fat strong oxen. Example of what it affects: AC.

Dexterity is the (hand-eye) coordination, e.g. a halfling is very dextrous whereas a dwarf much less so. Example of what it affects: dual wield.

You don't necessarily have to be agile to be dextrous or the other way around, although it does help a bit.

[agreiver]

Dexterity was an often overlooked stat. I noticed it affects almost everything, from bash, double attack, kick, rescue, etc.

[Tilandal]

The way I look at it is agility affects how you move. It gives you a better chance to dodge and higher AC. Dextarity is how well you handle weapons. It affects things like backstab, parry ripost and maybe shield punch bash, kick, and shield block, It probably also factors in with ranged weapons. Oh almost forgot, The lower your dex the better chance you have of fummbling! I have a sorc once with such horrible dex that he couldent hold onto his weapon for an entire fight. (I rerolled him cause it was just rediculous)

[vense]

Dwarves in Forgotten Realms are actually quite dexterous. They aren't as dexterous as halflings, but they are more dexterous than humans. (I think dwarves generally have good strength, constitution, wisdom, and dexterity, but poor intelligence and charisma.)

[Treladian]

Vense, where are you getting that? Looking through the sourcebooks I have lying around, most dwarves have dexterity equal to or worse than humans, the exception being derro (derro, NOT duergar. Yes, there is a difference =p).

[Elseenas]

Vense et al:

From the Dwarf, Faerunian listing in the Monsterous Manual 3rd Ed and from the 3rd Ed Monsterous Manual Proper.

For those with listed stats (the others are based on these):
Shield Dwarves have normal dex (10)
Duergar have normal dex (10)
Gold Dwarves get -2 dex
Artic Dwarves get -2 dex

Derro, who are not pure dwarves, have a bonus, but their about it.

[Selias]

I also heard that dex affected the amount that your proc weapon proc'd... I doubt it's true, but can anyone clarify?

As to dwarves and their dexterity, it would seem to me that they would have good dexterity, because they're craftsmen. Being able to bang out some mithril armor or a strong axe would require damn good hand-eye coordination, and almost all dwarves craft stuff.

If they're dex is worse than humans, then why can't humans make spiffy super-spanky stuff?

[Glaman]

dexterity is the ability to move and use your body.
agility is how well and how fast your body moves.

someone that is both dexterous and agile can do many more things then someone that is just dexterous or just agile. i cant think of a good example of them right off the top of my head.

[Treladian]

Selias, dwarves being excellent craftsmen has more to do with the fact that they'll spend months, years, or sometimes even decades on a small detail of an object. Basically, work is how they have fun and they live long enough to have practiced a lot and spend that time. Enough practice and their stubby little fingers aren't much of a problem anymore =p

[vense]

From the Toril/Sojourn help file on dwarves.

[vense]

Treladian, the help file on the mountain dwarf race from Duris follows:

---------------------------------------------
"MOUNTAIN DWARF" MOUNTAIN DWARF

Preferring to dwell in fortresses built into huge mountain ranges, mountain dwarves are a mining race known for their fine craftmanship
of weapons and armor. They are good-natured, sturdy, fearsome warriors who possess, due to extremely dense muscle and bone structure, high endurance. Stronger but clumsier than humans, mountain dwarves tend to live to be hundreds of years old and often acquire great wisdom with their age. This accumulation of intense wisdom frequently induces many of this race to beomce mentors later in life. Mountain dwarves are born with natural infravision, which allows them to maneuver quite skillfully in the dark. They are well
respected among most of the other races, and often trade among the general colonies. Mountain dwarves hold a deep abhorrence for the races of the Underdark, particularly their evil cousins, the gray dwarves, more commonly known as duergar.

Mountain dwarf class list: Warrior, Cleric, Rogue, Thief, Mercenary.

Mountain stats: Dwarves are stronger and hardier than humans, and somewhat more dextrous, but tend to be less intelligent and agile.

Mountain dwarf innate abilities: infravision, strength

See also: RACES, DUERGAR, INNATE, INFRAVISION
---------------------------------------------

I hope the formatting isn't too screwy.

[Treladian]

Vense, yeah, that's from the mud help files. I know about dwarves getting some dex bonus on the mud, but you mentioned Forgotten Realms dwarves which aren't more dextrous than humans. The Sojourn races don't use the standard D&D racial rules and instead use variants thereof that make the amount and effect of modifiers to stats more extreme, which don't always work well in such cases like elven rangers and warriors that are MUCH more viable in D&D than they are on the mud.

[Jhorr]

The help files are often outdated. For instance, they said Dwarves could be conjurers when Sojourn died, even though they couldn't.

On Toril agility affected AC and rescue. On Duris it affected spell casting fumble too.

On Toril dexterity affected backstab, pick lock, steal, max items carried, and weapon fumble. Dex for a warrior never seemed to affect much besides fumble and max items carried.

I'd guess they affected more but I would just be speculating.

Hey Nokie, is Mplor still your "right hand man"?

[Jhorr]

Oh yeah, how could I forget. Dizahk always said that agility on Toril was important for casters so they fall to earthquakes. And Dizahk knew how to play a caster, that's for sure.

[Nokie]

What you say !

So I was hoping for an official response so we could know once and for all what the differences are. Or perhaps at least something stating that the helpfiles will be accurate enough to explain the differences.

All your base are belong to us


Nokie "Somoene set up us the bomb" Quickfingers!

[This message has been edited by Nokie (edited 03-10-2001).]

[cherzra]

You have no chance to survive make your time.

Bwahaha! I love that stuff!

[Treladian]

Heh, I've actually seen the game the intro was taken from. Yes, it really is translated that horribly =p

[moritheil]

For great justice... move zig *cackle*

-Mori "You know what you doing"

[Treladian]

Might as well post a link to the actual intro of the game . . .

http://www.toaplan.com/zerowing/zerowing_story.html