First Neverwinter Nights Impression

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thruar
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First Neverwinter Nights Impression

Postby thruar » Wed Jun 19, 2002 6:44 pm

Got my hands on 2 Copies of Neverwinter Nights last night at the store I used to work at Software etc. now called Gamestop. I've not seen most of the employees in months but was happy to be in their company. First thing I noticed was new layout of the store which have more room and shelf space than ever before. I think it's because of the PC old game box to the new smaller box transition. I would say about 70% of the PC games are shipped in a small box. I am glad that the manufacturers and the game companies decided to ship them in smaller boxes saving on cost and efficiency. It seem to do well for the PC gaming market because the box size are identical to that of a Playstation2 box. A customer would sometimes wander into the PC section unknowlingly browsing at some of the cool games and say wow this game is for the PC.

When I got home I was extremely excited about NWN. It's a game that has been in the making for 3 years and from Bioware Corp which created some of the all time best AD&D rule set games such as Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate 2, Fallout 1 & 2. In my mind they helped shaped the Gaming industry even further. As I opened the box I noticed 3 cds, a cloth map and a huge spiral binded manual. Browsing through the manual which has very detailed information everything from creating a character to the spell lists.

Finally got the game installed. Noticed how nice and detailed the graphics work were. I know a lot has been put into t his game. After playing for 5 hours I would have to say I'm very impressed at the whole story that was presented. The in game tutorial was very helpful. I noticed the game combined a combination of a few games which I've played before, Dungeon Seige/Darkstone for it's camera control. Good storyline of that dialogue of Planescape: Torment/Baldur's Gate. And the point and click system of Diablo/Diablo2, but not to mention you got the pause option with the spacebar just like the other Bioware games Baldur's gate/Icewind Dale etc. I went through playing the game reading everything from the descriptions of the NPCs to the items I've found. I'm not familiar with the AD&D 3rd edtition rule set but as far as I know what was added were feats or skill set geared towards your specific class. Other than that everything feels very much Forgotten Realms with famous characters that are talked about in the game such as Khelben "Blackstaff" Arunson and Dritzz and Wulfgar.

Tell us of your first NWN impressions.
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Postby Ragorn » Wed Jun 19, 2002 10:09 pm

"3DFX is no longer in business; although some Voodoo 5 cards may work occasionally they are no longer supported by 3DFX and available drivers do not generally include complete OpenGL support required for Neverwinter Nights. Hence, 3DFX graphics cards are not supported by NWN."

The game is unplayable on my hardware setup, and as my computer doesn't have an AGP slot for newer video cards, apparently I'm SOL.

- Ragorn

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Postby Guest » Wed Jun 19, 2002 11:18 pm

That's two of us Ragorn... "I am not amused." - Worf

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Ragorn
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Postby Ragorn » Thu Jun 20, 2002 1:22 am

I don't know if you're interested, or if you hvae the same AGP problem as I do, but you can purchase a PCI GeForce 2 online for about 80 bucks. I might go that route, since it's becoming more and more apparent to me (with morrowind and now NWN) that the games I already own are probably reaching the threshold of what my one-year-old computer can handle. Makes me sad to think that my computer is one year and two weeks old and it's already witheringly obsolete because of one design flaw on my motherboard.

And because it's a micro-dell (the case is only 18" tall by maybe 6" wide), it's very difficult to find a replacement mboard that fits.

- Ragorn
At least I'll have time for Sojourn Image
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Postby Tagor » Thu Jun 20, 2002 3:25 am

I haven't been that impressed by NWN so far. The graphics are only good - not great, with all options at max. The camera angles are kind of awkward and there is no first person view. Combat is kind of slow and boring, most likly because of the adherence to the AD&D rule set. It's also been crashing on me fairly often.

The gaming system itself seems kind of confusing and boring. Maybe it's just been too long since I've played AD&D, or maybe the system just doesn't transfer well to a computer game. When I level up and have to choose new skills, it's kind of a chore, because I don't really WANT any of the new skills. I tend to choose the automatic/passive skills so I don't have to bother thinking about them. Maybe spellcasters are better.

It also seems to be lacking polish. This might be a bonus for some people, I don't know. Personally, I don't really want to see my initiative roll or my hit roll every single time I fight, with my message window scrolling madly with each hit. And it's a little odd to click on an NPC and get the message "This object is busy and cannot talk now." or something like that. And I could really care less that "[Server] You have entered a full PVP area". What the hell does that mean in a single player game? Nothing. So much for immersion I guess.

Maybe it'll get better, I'll keep playing. Frankly, if you're thinking about getting NWN I'd suggest you go pick up Morrowind instead. Compared to Morrowind, NWN is pure tripe. Morrowind = game of the year, possibly best rpg to date. NWN has that multiplayer thing going for it though, so maybe I'm an idiot for expecting a polished and fun single player experience.

If NWN doesn't get better soon, I'm gonna go play through Morrowind again. Image Either that or try and finish this blasted res quest. *mutter*

Tagor
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Postby thruar » Thu Jun 20, 2002 3:49 am

You know I think you have a point there. I like really like NWN, and it is more of a story based game just like the BG series and planescape. I still rather have the 2nd edition rule system where you have the old AC and Thac0 system which seemed to be removed in 3rd edition. Maybe the Icewind Dale series might be more suited for your style of play since it is more focused on hack n' slash. Icewind dale 2 is just around the corner too.

Unfortunately Morrowind is just too slow for me. The first person/3rd person adventurer type games in an RPG setting is not for me personally. I know this game has great reviews, maybe after I am done with NWN I will try Morrowind again. I was however impressed at the graphics and the immense world that is morrowind and full of quests and things to do. Taking 20 mins to walk from 1 spot of the town to another spot is not my idea of fun and just too slow in this gigantic world. The world of Morrowind is not as lively where you see NPCs just standing there like statues without any 'human' emotions like scratching, yawning, doing everyday chores so to speak. Other than that I am sure it is a great game and I will get to it sometime later.

Bottomline is that I enjoy the 2nd edition games that were in BG/BG2/planescape and Icewindale more than NWN. NWN is the first game Bioware used with 3rd edition which I am not used to. I enjoy the storyline still, but I think this game has much more replayability, graphics comparable to that of Morrowind, a great storyline may win game of the year if not at the very least runner up or best RPG of the year.


[This message has been edited by thruar (edited 06-19-2002).]
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Postby Tagor » Thu Jun 20, 2002 4:49 am

Fortunately NWN crashes on me every hour or so, so I've got plenty of chances to check the boards. Image

Yeah, the running around in Morrowind can be a little tedious at times, but for the most part it didn't bother me. You can take portals/boats/mounts to within 30 seconds of nearly any place you care to go. Once you get mark/recall and temple recall items/spells then you're pretty much home free. Typically I'd setup a base of operations (like my mansion that I built as a member of House Redoran) that I could recall to whenever. From that area I knew all the nearby portals/boats/mounts and their destinations, so getting around was a piece of cake.

What does bother me (in NWN) is when I feel the need to watch TV or take a bathroom break when a fight begins. I don't really have anything to do, I just kind of wait for the numbers to play themselves out. At least in Morrowind I can run about and attack at will and try various strategies etc. Combat in NWN is too automated for my tastes - again, most likely because of the adherence to AD&D.

Another thing I really enjoy about Morrowind is the free choice. Isn't AD&D supposed to be a roleplaying game? I'm not seeing a lot of roleplaying in NWN so far, there appears to be one main quest and the roleplaying choices you have mainly are just there to affect your alignment and don't really touch on the plot at all. In Morrowind my character has a very distinct personality and story, a story that I created through my own actions. I could sit here and tell you about how I started with petty theft, got frustrated with that and signed up with the Imperial Guard and then abused my power relentlessly, before amassing enough wealth through my corruption and abuse that I no longer felt the need to abuse my power quite so much and then joined House Redoran etc etc etc. In NWN, well, er, you've played it so you know the story already.

The replayability of Morrowind is almost absurd. I've already got ideas on how I want to play through it the next 3 or 4 times. I guess NWN has replayability in the form of user creatable modules, so that's a plus I guess. But Morrowind is an actual world and it all fits together. The reason it takes so long to run around is because there is SO MUCH THERE. Not to mention the practically unlimited quests to do and guilds/houses/associations/etc to join.

I think the graphics are superior as well. NWN isn't bad, but Morrowind is stunning. My girlfriend, who has no interest in games at all, actually stands behind me and watches me play for fairly long stretches, just because of how pretty it is. That's a first. I don't if it's dorkier to watch a sunset with your girlfriend IN A GAME, or to think that that's actually a good thing.

Sorry for ranting. Image I play games a lot and Morrowind has made quite an impression on me.

In summary, Morrowind is about free choice, exploration, roleplaying, many subplots and a strong (optional) main storyline. NWN is about a strong railroaded storyline and lots and lots of numbers. That's my opinion. Image

On a side note, did anyone play the original NWN on AOL? That was my introduction to online games and man did I love it. The gold box series ruled and to play it online was great. The new Pool of Radiance was really a let down and unfortunately it looks like NWN is headed that way too.

Tagor
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Postby Malacar » Thu Jun 20, 2002 5:38 am

There is a patch available to make it more stable. I had the same problem, and the patch fixed it.

As for the system.. I love it. I hated the clunky old 2nd edition system where you dont know where to add, subtract, multiply, divide, or go insane. 3rd edition rules under the d20 system are polished, straightforward, and very simple to follow. Everything is add add add. Only circumstances, bad stats, and cursed items are the source of penalties for the most part(not including morale, bad luck, etc).

Anyhow.. I played it for a while, got to level 5, and the story is really good so far. I am quite impressed. The graphics aren't great, but I don't care. Too many games recently have concentrated on graphics alone, and left their story to fall by the wayside.

Once I got the hang of playing a cleric, the game got fun.. Until then, I died repeatedly, and we had to scrap 5 hours worth of work(playing multiplayer story/campaign) to start over because we lost like 3000 exp. Heh.

A solid game so far storywise. Decent graphicswise. Poor bugwise(come on.. patch the first day? Though I suppose this shows they are on top of the issues and are concerned.. So kudos for that at least).

I give it an 8.5/10 so far. Might go higher or lower depending on what happens. Image



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Postby Jegzed » Thu Jun 20, 2002 6:11 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Malacar:
Poor bugwise(come on.. patch the first day? Though I suppose this shows they are on top of the issues and are concerned.. So kudos for that at least).</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


As a professional awardwinning gamedeveloper, I have to chime in here Image

One, games are NEVER released when the developers think they are perfect or have fixed bugs. It is ALWAYS in the hands of marketing and upper managerment. You might have a big say in when, but when the publishing date finally comes, the game has to ship simply because there is too much money to be lost by not shipping at that date.

So, the developer is perfectly aware of that, and usually have to continue working for months and months fixing bugs after the release. (Which is !fun since you are drained, and really want to take a long vacation.)

And since it is a delay of about two to four weeks between the goldmaster is delivered until you have a cd in the shop, you can have another few weeks of bugs and tweaks into the game by release date, which I only think is FAIR that the paying customer recieves as soon as possible.

/Jegzed who has to run into work now...
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Postby Zellin » Thu Jun 20, 2002 8:48 am

What games have you worked on Jegzed?*

* No this is not a challenge or anything just curious! =)

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Postby Jegzed » Thu Jun 20, 2002 9:17 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Zellin:
<B>What games have you worked on Jegzed?*

* No this is not a challenge or anything just curious! =)
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
*feh, hijacked the thread* Image

Released games since 1994.
Nightmare Circus
NBA Hangtime
Dragonheart
Svea Rike III
Europa Universalis
Sveakampen
Europa Universalis II



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/Jegzed - Sorcere Master - Crimson Coalition
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Postby Ilshadrial » Thu Jun 20, 2002 11:20 am

I have to wait for Xmas so I can play it on my super micro computer! My APPLE MAC!

Thruar,

I nearly fell out of my chair when you said, "Ice Wind Dale series prob more suits you, becasue its hack-n-slash."

I thought a paradox about hit the world.

Kevin

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Ilshad

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Postby Sarvis » Thu Jun 20, 2002 11:56 am

Rags: Heh, just be glad your computer isn't 5 years old. Sojourn will probably be too much for my pc soon. Image

But that's ok, I can't afford to buy Neverwinter Nights anyway... Image Anyone looking to hire a computer programmer? Will work for video games... err... and a massive salary. Image

Topic: I haven't played the game, but I've never really liked AD&D's combat rules. Baldur's Gate was kinda fun though... even with my computer barely running it. I just think these games could be a LOT better if they used a combat system that made more sense. AD&D rules are the way they are so that players can calculate crap easily... not for their realism or ability to make any actual sense.

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Postby Tagor » Thu Jun 20, 2002 3:13 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jegzed:
<B>
One, games are NEVER released when the developers think they are perfect or have fixed bugs. It is ALWAYS in the hands of marketing and upper managerment. You might have a big say in when, but when the publishing date finally comes, the game has to ship simply because there is too much money to be lost by not shipping at that date.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's the case with any software developed in a competitive market place, not just games. It all comes down to how good your development process is, how many late nights your developers are willing to work and how skilled they are.

Tagor
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Postby Todrael » Thu Jun 20, 2002 3:22 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jegzed:
<B> *feh, hijacked the thread* Image

Released games since 1994.
Nightmare Circus
NBA Hangtime
Dragonheart
Svea Rike III
Europa Universalis
Sveakampen
Europa Universalis II
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow, some great games listed there.


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-Todrael Azz'miala, Ravager
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Postby Malacar » Thu Jun 20, 2002 4:37 pm

Jegzed, my intent wasn't to slam them. Bioware has put out some quality stuff.

My gripe is mainly companies like Interplay... That release the buggiest pieces of crap ever known to man... It was my offhand way of complimenting bioware. Image

I am sure it will get even more stable in the coming days.

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Postby thruar » Thu Jun 20, 2002 4:38 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ilshadrial:
<B>I have to wait for Xmas so I can play it on my super micro computer! My APPLE MAC!

Thruar,

I nearly fell out of my chair when you said, "Ice Wind Dale series prob more suits you, becasue its hack-n-slash."

I thought a paradox about hit the world.

Kevin

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What I meant was that the game Icewind Dale is not as story driven game as that of BG/BG2 or Planescape were. It's more of a mindless dungeon craw type. Sometimes Icewind Dale is more for my taste when I don't want to read much. So I thought this game might be more fun for some players.
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Postby izarek » Thu Jun 20, 2002 7:53 pm

1st impressions

Where I am: finished Beggars area, working on Prison area. I believe thats still in chapter 1. What I am: a human rogue/wizard with a barbarian henchman.

look/stability: For the type of game this is (modular, build your own adventure), I'm happy with the graphics even at the low setting (which is where I keep it to make it smooth) Seems stable enough.

Ease of use: jury is still out on this. Thank god for the spacebar pause. I'm still figuring things out.

Henchment: This is my main problem. I miss the old groups of people you could control. You cannot modify henchmen at all or make them carry/wear anything different. Control of them isn't all that great.
Storyline: Seems a bit disjointed at this point, but its early on I suppose.

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thruar
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Postby thruar » Fri Jun 21, 2002 5:49 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ragorn:
<B>"3DFX is no longer in business; although some Voodoo 5 cards may work occasionally they are no longer supported by 3DFX and available drivers do not generally include complete OpenGL support required for Neverwinter Nights. Hence, 3DFX graphics cards are not supported by NWN."

The game is unplayable on my hardware setup, and as my computer doesn't have an AGP slot for newer video cards, apparently I'm SOL.

- Ragorn

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is a link on Bioware's website might help if you look around. Maybe check out a link here see if it will help. I think there are some people who are able to play the game with voodoo cards.

http://nwn.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=52442&forum=42
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Postby Ragorn » Fri Jun 21, 2002 6:10 pm

Thanks Thruar. I downloaded and installed that OpenGL driver utility, but unfortunately it doesn't work with Windows ME and I haven't upgraded back to windows 98 yet Image

Oh well, buying an overpriced GeForce2 PCI soon I imagine.

- Ragorn

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Postby Guest » Fri Jun 21, 2002 7:25 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Laduguer:
<B>That's two of us Ragorn... "I am not amused." - Worf

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No no, it's "Sir - I am NOT a merry man."

--D "no I'm not grungar, I'm just a geek" 2



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Postby Gort » Fri Jun 21, 2002 8:09 pm

D2

Me thinks they are two very separate episodes, I believe Worf said both.


"Good tea, Nice house" Worf


Toplack

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Postby Ragorn » Mon Jun 24, 2002 3:54 pm

After tweaking Emily's computer and downloading some new drivers, I'm up and running Image Here's what I think:

I was expecting NWN to be a 3e D&D game. This is EXACTLY what I was looking for it to be. I understand that to some non-D&D enthusiasts, the combats are probably slow and full of spammy combat messages. I can see how someone who isn't into D&D might think the chargen process is dopey. But this is a faithful translation of the tabletop rules, and I'm thrilled with it.

Some D&D elements weren't really feasible in a 3d computer game and I understand that, so I'm not too unhappy to lose Spring Attack, Whirlwind, and some of the other feats and spells. The rules for sneak attacking and attacks of opportunity were changed for the graphical representation, but they're consistant in the game and that's fine. The plot is interesting if a little predictable.

Now, the graphics. I think they're excellent. I sometimes have problems with camera angles, but nothing that can't be fixed by manually rotating the view. I also experience a LOT of slowdown in the open city areas, which I don't understand since I'm light years past the requirements and on all the lowest graphical settings. I also get some slowdown when drastic graphical effects happen... I often don't see a fireball trap, I'll touch a chest, hear the sounds, and then see the LOAD screen. So I've got some processor-game issues.

The sound is EXCELLENT. They did a good job matching the sound to the game, and some of the background audio is top notch.

I haven't tried multi-player yet, but I will soon. I'm not so sure I like the one-character aspect of the single player, as it makes the game SO easy. As a cleric, you do good melee damage, you have access to healing, summon, and group buff spells, and you can silence 15' radius centered on myself any time there's a powerful spellcaster. I took a level in fighter for the martial weapon proficiency feat and the bonus feat for 1st level fighters. My cleric wields a +1 longsword and has cleave and AC23. With proper spelling up before a major fight, there really hasn't been an area in a long time that I thought was terribly difficult. In NWN, a caster can even see through his own darkness spell, so if worst comes to worst I just dark myself and continue to hack away Image

- Ragorn
The Cleric (8) Fighter (1) killing machine.
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Postby Zrax » Mon Jun 24, 2002 4:50 pm

The toolset is amazing. I created a 6 area linked dungeon with custom creatures and items, and npc's who made conversation in about 2 hours and having no idea what I was doing. The single player game is ok i guess, it is kind of a watered down plot compared to the other black isle games, but who really bought the game for the single player mode anyway. Multiplayer seems to have some latency problems unless you find a good server on gamespy. Lan games are very smooth. The dm mode is pretty fun actually, I was suprised. Just dont put an ancient gold dragon in a dungeon with anything evil because the thing will destroy anything evil in sight, took out a small vampire army and a balor lord without getting scratched. I have barely used any of the scripting capabilites of the game but if you have a steady group of people who you game with and someone with the time to create modules for you to run through, this game is a blast. Check out the first offical released module, called Contest of Champions at http://nwn.bioware.com/downloads/modules.html its a fun PvP arena module with 2 teams in a pvp arena. It is fun if you run a dedicated server.



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And shepherds we shall be, for Thee my Lord, for Thee.
Power hath descended forth from Thy hand,
that our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command.
We will flow a river forth unto Thee,
and teeming with souls shall it ever be.
In nomine Patris, et Fili, et Spiritu Sancti.
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Postby taelin » Mon Jun 24, 2002 5:20 pm

As most people in the industry can attest, the wonderful folks at Bioware made a decision 11 months ago to change their tactics. They had a great engine, and a community that was supplying feedback and push for a development set, tools to create their own campaigns they could then share online. This product switched focus and nearly all of their team changed projects from content depth and plot tweaks to building out a robust featureset and tools to exploit them. This product may be a lot of fun to play through but its true power shows itself in its customizations. Look for some great campaigns to be released for it. I would expect to see the old Undermountain modules and the Menzoberazan module produced post haste.

Sobu
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Postby thruar » Mon Jun 24, 2002 6:57 pm

Glad you got it running Ragorn. I am not familiar with the 3rd edition rule set. NWN is still loads of fun. The single player campaign is ok. I can't wait for people to build modules, and act as DM for 5-6 players. It would bring out the best of NWN undoubtedly the game's best feature.

I run a AMD athlon 1700+, gforce 3 without any notice of slowdowns, with graphics all turned up too. Except this one area with the grigs/sprites which cast that entangle spell like 4 times each which fills the screen with animated vines, but was still playable for me.

I am a pure dwarven fighter (What a suprise there! Did you expect me to roll another race/class?), level 13 now, with cleric henchman Linu. I have not had a hard time with my character at all, dispatching everything with ease, easily hitting 50+ criticals. I am sure the challenge is for other players to create a mod suited for multiplayer, and realistically challenging. Until then I'll finish the single player campaigne before checking out other mods. By that time maybe there are more serious mods out there.

So someone going to recreate a Sojourn mud in NWN. That'll be sweet.
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Postby Ragorn » Wed Jun 26, 2002 12:08 am

Playing further, I think this game needs a patch. There are myriad (suck it down hoppil) typos. I spent 10 minutes wandering around the Driud Grove. The pathing of hirelings is bad at times... my thief hireling will somehow detect a trap through a solid wall... and since disarming traps is apparently his #2 coded priority (second only to defending himself), he'll sit there and try to run through the wall to disarm it no matter what commands I give him.

The shift in focus is apparent... several of the side quests in single player amount to little more than "go into the cave next to my house and kill the bad guy, and I'll give you 200 gold." I've done maybe 10 such quests, which neither advance the plot nor develop your character. I think the single player game would be more polished without 40 rinky dink side 20 minute quests for no real reward.

But hey, level 12 and climbing Image

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Postby moritheil » Wed Jun 26, 2002 1:37 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by D2:
<B> No no, it's "Sir - I am NOT a merry man."

--D "no I'm not grungar, I'm just a geek" 2

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wait till grungar sees this!

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Deshana group-says 'guys he's a lil ditzy today'
Grungar
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Postby Grungar » Wed Jun 26, 2002 3:10 am

I saw. =D

I have evolved beyond the meager realms of geekiness. And I got mentioned in a D2 post!

- Grungar "Everyone be sweatin my mad dope crazy fly style, yo" Forgefire
Kada
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Postby Kada » Wed Jun 26, 2002 11:13 am

For the person who said it crashed everyhour it is because of memory leaks they are trying to fix it if they haven't already made a patch for it
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Postby Treladian » Wed Jun 26, 2002 9:22 pm

My only big gripes with the game are the completely absence of reach weapons (my kingdom for a spike chain . . .) and the lack of documentation for the toolset. The henchmen AI is annoying at times too, but I had little problem finishing encounters solo when they did something stupid that got them killed. Looks like I'll be plunking down the $20 for the worldbuilder guide now that I've finished the official campaign.

"What do you mean you gave the orc 12 levels of dragon and firebreathing?!?"

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You fire a black-shafted elven arrow to the east at Gormal's pet goat with masterful shooting that does lethal damage!
You receive your share of experience.
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Postby Ragorn » Thu Jun 27, 2002 9:01 am

Ugh, this game is buggy as hell.

There's a crippling bug at the end of Chapter 2 that sometimes sets in and won't let you proceed. I had to go on the forums at bioware.com, and the user-supplied fix was to edit the module in the DM creation toolset.

I'm in Chapter 3 and I've had two divide by zero errors, one "too many commands" error out, the bug shown above, one blank journal quest entry, and a really nasty bug that reduced my attack bonus by 10 until I saved and exited the program. Seriously, I get the feeling that this is an unfinished product.

Why do I write so much about it?

I'm waiting for my other computer to reboot after ANOTHER lockup Image

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- Ragorn
Jenera says 'i managed to match a little, ragorn's outfit is hideous.'
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Postby thruar » Thu Jun 27, 2002 3:08 pm

That's strange because I'm in the middle of chapter 3, still did not have any bugs in my game. Did you download the 1.18 patch version?
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Postby Ragorn » Thu Jun 27, 2002 7:48 pm

I did, and 1.18 brings a new bug into the game. Monsters don't use their special abilities now. Dragons don't breathe and monsters don't use their innate abilities (web, etc). Spellcasters still cast, but other than that, monsters just beat on you. They still use their combat commands like knockdown. But for example, the intellect devourer in Chapter 1 doesn't try to dominate you anymore, it just scratches you over and over until you beat it to the ground.

The chapter 2 bug takes place at the top of the Host Tower. The conversation never triggers, and you stand outside the gate without anything happening. Hundreds of people posted about it on nwn.bioware.com, and one user found a Toolset-related fix that people are using. Bioware is looking into it.

New patch soon Image

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- Ragorn
Jenera says 'i managed to match a little, ragorn's outfit is hideous.'
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Postby Mishre » Thu Jun 27, 2002 8:18 pm

Heh.. i guess ill wait about a year to buy.. so they actually finish debugging it.. ic an't believe they shipped out such a buggy product, hello, play testing!.. Makes me appreciate all the work Blizzard does to make sure they don't send out a bunch of crap...

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Mishri }-Sentinel-{ Shades of Twilight
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Postby Zrax » Thu Jun 27, 2002 8:34 pm

For all that you can do with the game, the bugs I have encountered are relativly light. Blizzard is far from flawless, starcraft and Diablo 1 were a nightmare early on.

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And shepherds we shall be, for Thee my Lord, for Thee.
Power hath descended forth from Thy hand,
that our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command.
We will flow a river forth unto Thee,
and teeming with souls shall it ever be.
In nomine Patris, et Fili, et Spiritu Sancti.
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Postby Mishre » Thu Jun 27, 2002 10:53 pm

i have diablo1 and starcraft v1.0.. i can play it find w/o crashing.. most of their patches after beta testing are gameplay related with the bugs that cause it to crash being a rare instance where you can get certain conditions just right, not being able to get past chapt2 sounds like a big bug :P


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Mishri }-Sentinel-{ Shades of Twilight
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Postby thruar » Thu Jun 27, 2002 11:40 pm

Both Blizzard and Bioware corp are excellent companies and what every other game company should follow. Blizzard releases their games bug free because they are not pressure with release dates. Bioware deals with deadlines but still make sure the game is of great quality even after the game has been released. Neverwinter Nights is very playable from my experience. I wouldn't be suprised in less than 2 weeks a new patch is set to be ready. So far playing through more than half the game I can tell much work has been put into it. So I say give them a little break.
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Postby Malacar » Fri Jun 28, 2002 12:47 am

New patch out.

Fixes the mob AI bug.

And stop bashing Bioware.. This is the fastest and most user friendly schedule of bug fixes I have ever seen.

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Malacar - omg ymir!

[This message has been edited by Malacar (edited 06-27-2002).]
Ragorn
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Postby Ragorn » Fri Jun 28, 2002 4:41 am

Starcraft 1.0 let you slide your command center right up next to minerals. You could also build a hatchery under your opponent's command center or nexus, a bug that survived all the way until 1.07. Tanks under barracks were invincible, except every so often you could kill units by landing buildings on them.

"Increased chance to find magic items" didn't work at all in Diablo 2 right up until 1.06. Diablo 2 has also experience a wide variety of "player not found" bugs and glitches. Adding skill points would sometimes randomly lock your character... sometimes you'd click a skill and the # of points remaining would go red, and you wouldn't be allowed to allocate any more points. The fix was to fiddle with the character save files.

My point is, no game is bug free on release, and Bioware has an AMAZING realtime staff fixing these issues. 1.19 fixed the skill issue in 1.18, and was released within 36 hours based solely on forum feedback.

It's buggy, but it WILL get there.

[edit]Most of the problems seem to stem from the single player campaign, not the engine. There's some faulty coding in the campaign, mostly bad triggers and illegal functions, but the engine is very stable otherwise.

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- Ragorn
Jenera says 'i managed to match a little, ragorn's outfit is hideous.'

[This message has been edited by Ragorn (edited 06-28-2002).]
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Postby Bopple » Fri Jun 28, 2002 9:32 am

crap...stupid un-modified harm spell and even more stupid modified toughness feat. these tear down the whole balance. (and tons of items that blow away the balance)

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Handsome fighter never loses a battle.
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Postby Silverast Rubicyn » Fri Jun 28, 2002 1:56 pm

I dont care how buggy it is, I think it rules. Its such an awesome game for so many reasons. The thing I'm really looking forward to is the modules the players themselves make.
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Postby Bopple » Fri Jun 28, 2002 2:01 pm

Ahh...not saying it's a crap. actually i love it. but think toughness feat and harm spell need to be changed.

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Handsome fighter never loses a battle.
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Postby Zrax » Fri Jun 28, 2002 2:02 pm

I would have paid the money for just the toolset, and an instruction manual. The one player game is there just to increase their market audience. Conversation editor is a royal pain though.

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And shepherds we shall be, for Thee my Lord, for Thee.
Power hath descended forth from Thy hand,
that our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command.
We will flow a river forth unto Thee,
and teeming with souls shall it ever be.
In nomine Patris, et Fili, et Spiritu Sancti.
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Postby Malacar » Fri Jun 28, 2002 3:16 pm

Actually, I think the toughness feat is more balanced than the original. They added all the spiffy new 'dragon toughness' 'giant toughness' etc feats int he masters of the wild book.. But this one is neither powerful nor unbalancing.

1 extra hit point per level is miniscule in the ultimate picture of things. My group actually likes it better too, so we're contemplating the ramifications of changing it.

If you noticed something that I missed on the balance issue of toughness though, be my guest and edumacate meh. Image

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Malacar - omg ymir!
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Postby Bopple » Fri Jun 28, 2002 4:03 pm

My friend has a 400+ hp 20th lvl barbarian. And another has a 350hp cleric. isn't it uber compared the dice of the high-up damage spells(i remember max damage of a single-targeted spell is 15d6 ... not sure though)...but considering tremendous damages of melee attack...hrmm..*shrug* maybe it's balanced...

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Handsome fighter never loses a battle.
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Postby Tagor » Fri Jun 28, 2002 9:38 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ragorn:
<B>I did, and 1.18 brings a new bug into the game. Monsters don't use their special abilities now. Dragons don't breathe and monsters don't use their innate abilities (web, etc).
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Omg! I was wondering about that. I just smited 3 dragons with my level 16 monk without too much trouble, I was thinking they ought to have a breath weapon. I'm installing the newest patch now so maybe that'll help.

The most annoying bug I've found so far is when it crashes sometimes when I save a game and then destroys the saved game. I've lost a total of maybe 14 hours of playing because of this. I am now very careful to keep double and triple backup save games every 15 minutes or so. It also still locks up pretty regularly.

My monk with boots of speed now gets 5 attacks per round with each attack doing 10-24 damage. Throw improved crit on top of that and the damage rolls in pretty fast. I've got damage absorption, magic absorption and pretty high saving throws all around. I'm basically invincible, I tear through everything I run into with no effort and rarely have to bother with healing. I walk through traps with no fear and never take damage, spells don't harm me, the only damage I take is from very hard hitting monsters, like fire giants. The dragons were a little rough, I had to actually dig into my cache of 50 or 60 heal potions and quaff a few, mainly because I had trouble hitting them. Everything else falls with ease.

It has been sort of fun, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of challenge. I've taken to ignoring side quests and just running for the main stuff so I can move on to harder areas.

Tagor
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Postby Malacar » Fri Jun 28, 2002 9:46 pm

It was posted by bioware that the single player campaign isn't the most balanced you will find. They even suggested to edit the modules and down the exp even more than it currently is(you get 10% of what you would in the tabletop rpg for obvious reasons)... You fight 100x more things in this game than you ever would in tabletop.. For again, obvious reasons.. So yes, you are supposed to be whackamole. If you're having such an easy time, I highly recommend upping the difficulty to...gasp... hard. Image



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Postby Mishre » Fri Jun 28, 2002 9:56 pm

They might have just increased damage/hps of everything.. because people like to see a lot of hps and a lot of damage.. like on FFX its now possible to get 99999 hps and do 99999 points of damage.. its kinda neat seing 49340 pts of damage being done Image compared to 35, 20, etc..

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Mishri }-Sentinel-{ Shades of Twilight
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Postby Grungar » Fri Jun 28, 2002 11:02 pm

Say no to inflation!

- Grungar "Heh, panda porn" Forgefire

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