Dying faith-lack thereof

Archive of the Sojourn3 General Discussion Forum.
Drache
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Dying faith-lack thereof

Postby Drache » Wed Sep 04, 2002 7:49 pm

Yesterday, I die to a pathetic 'this creature is no match'. Funny is when you try to level and you get the oposite con, the LAUGH, you KNOW you cannot hurt them. (speaking of low level players trying to level despite awesome eq, because the level diff prevents you to melee them) They, however, will hurt you when you are the 'LAUGH' vs. them. Anyway, I died from lagging, a 'no match on BGR no less' bashed me and I get welcome to sojourn. Again, it's a goddamned no match. Then I fail the ressurection. Being pretty much maximum level, this is an obvious catastrophy - I spent mostly the entire holiday weekend leveling with the greatest person on the mud doing smoke/air mephits. So, I basically give up 20% of a 49th level. I do not understand why such a HUGE loss in exp when you die, it's relative to level, not a scale of exp. So, I can either sit around like a mindless fool and regain the 5.5 hours of exp...or I can quit. I'm quitting. Loss such as that isn't worth it.

Let the flaming and 'taking the risk' bs begin.

Yes there is struggle to become maximum level. Yes there are risks involved when you TAKE them. There should be no risk in fighting a mob that has the worst con it can have. Maybe a more logical con would be proper. *con xxx* "This think could kick you and your twin's butt with luck" Who knows...There is a risk playing where the notion is dying to lag is just too bad. I may as well get hit by a car on my way to work and die as well...there's no reimb's there either. Except the good side of being hit by a car is I don't have to regain what I'd lost. I may be morbid but I see death in rl as a release, life sucks shit as it is. Most everybody has had some pile of dung cheat on them or felt the pain of losing someone so close, you'd feel better off dead anyway. Read between the lines all you want. I'm truly fed up with perm exp loss as HUGE as that. ALL our time is worth more than just giving it up. (the exp lost therein) The worst option I could see is an option if you fail. A message from your 'God' saying your faith has failed you, if you wish to be restored, you will make a sacrafice: Offer monetary, material, or some other sacrifice..anything to restore the MANY hours I just give up due to shitty luck. Screw that.

On a positive note, I'd like to thank Lilithelle for all her time, honor, and FUN! She is one HELL of a person and you all had better recognize Image

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The watch sez: Time to kill!
teflor the ranger
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Postby teflor the ranger » Wed Sep 04, 2002 8:18 pm

Can I have your stuff? :P

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David
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Postby cherzra » Wed Sep 04, 2002 8:23 pm

Note: flame follows, read at own risk - I'm sick and tired of whines.

oh sniff BOOH HOOH I DIED TO A 'THIS CREATURE IS NO MATCH' MOB...... THEN I FAILED RESS AND NOW I HAVE TO XP FOR ANOTHER 3 HOURS TO GET THE XP BACK! I should never lose xp from dying, I should never fail ress, and I should be able to obliterate any mob below my level...


Mob levels don't mean squat and if you haven't learned this by level 49 then you DESERVE to die. Resses fail, live with it. If you die - you lose xp, live with it. Mobs with 10d10 damagerolls and multiple classes will kick your ass even if you are 10 levels higher, live with it.

Spare me your 'It's so unfair, I'm quitting' whine - just quit and go play another mud where you can have 10000hp, get 5 attacks and can -=OBLITERATE=-, ***MUTILATE** and !!!EVISCERATE!!! all mobs with your vorpal vampiric weapons.
Drache
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Postby Drache » Wed Sep 04, 2002 8:41 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by cherzra:
<B>Note: flame follows, read at own risk - I'm sick and tired of whines.

oh sniff BOOH HOOH I DIED TO A 'THIS CREATURE IS NO MATCH' MOB...... THEN I FAILED RESS AND NOW I HAVE TO XP FOR ANOTHER 3 HOURS TO GET THE XP BACK! I should never lose xp from dying, I should never fail ress, and I should be able to obliterate any mob below my level...


Mob levels don't mean squat and if you haven't learned this by level 49 then you DESERVE to die. Resses fail, live with it. If you die - you lose xp, live with it. Mobs with 10d10 damagerolls and multiple classes will kick your ass even if you are 10 levels higher, live with it.

Spare me your 'It's so unfair, I'm quitting' whine - just quit and go play another mud where you can have 10000hp, get 5 attacks and can -=OBLITERATE=-, ***MUTILATE** and !!!EVISCERATE!!! all mobs with your vorpal vampiric weapons.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


**Great that some people's time isn't worth a piss then. Regain exp all you want, dude. If you were able to UNDERSTAND what I wrote, which you didn't, is the notion of playing at your own peril. Bah, I'm sick of people reading and writing non-conclusive responses...Where the HELL did you extrapolate I'd expected a gimme because his con? I wasn't gonna bother with flaming but I'm sick of bs responses that don't address specific points. You show me another invoker who can gain 20% of 49 in three hours...PAY ATTENTION!! It was 5.5 hours for that...There are people that believe that much time is worth more than regaining that despite shit luck. I'm not going to another mud -what's the point?

[This message has been edited by Drache (edited 09-04-2002).]
Drache
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Postby Drache » Wed Sep 04, 2002 8:52 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by teflor the ranger:
<B>Can I have your stuff? :P

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The day a ranger can take an invoker in the arena is the day I give you my stuff! Shame on the lack of worship for the Goddess Lilithelle!

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The watch sez: Time to kill!
Tanji Smanji
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Postby Tanji Smanji » Wed Sep 04, 2002 8:52 pm

I have to agree with Cherzra on this one. If by lvl 49 you don't know what you're capable of killing then the problem isn't with the mud. If exp loss was as big a deal as you make it out to be there'd be way less lvl 50 ppl than there currently are. Death happens, failed resses happen, shit happens. You either suck it up and learn from it or go elsewhere.
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Postby Daz » Wed Sep 04, 2002 8:54 pm

While Cherzra won't win any diplomat of the year awards, you DID infer quite a bit of information to support his 'extrapolations.' However, without being so cruel about it, he does make some points with merit. From your post, it sounds like you are a new player, who had the fortune to get leveled by a friend or player.

If you think that what happened to you was a waste of time, I have severely bad news for you. The higher level you get, the more that what happened to you becomes regular, and not the occasional mishap. Time is the one thing that sojourn requires of you. Maybe not today as much as in the past, but I HOPE you are willing to spend several hours getting a corpse back, losing experience, and oftentimes NOT getting compensated for it. If this isn't for you, then you really are going to get frustrated with sojourn. This is a game for those WITH time, not without it. If you do NOT have time, you may want to sit around WD chatting it up until you DO have time.

I hate to come off negative, but that is the reality of our game.

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-Daz "<^> (*¿*) <^>" Proudwolf
Ashiwi
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Postby Ashiwi » Wed Sep 04, 2002 8:58 pm

Ummm, I think what Cherz was trying to say was... ::cough::

Okay, what I think is that Sojourn really was designed for people to take that time to level. It's not supposed to happen overnight, it's supposed to be a long process. In the time it SHOULD take you to level, you can learn your class inside and out. You might die a few times on the way, but every death should count as a lesson. If you haven't learned how to avoid death from a mob that cons no match for you, then perhaps a bit more time leveling might be in order.

Many of us have always enjoyed that Soj is supposed to be more difficult than many other MUDs you can play on. There's more challenge in Sojourn than I've ever seen on any other MUD. Taking your lumps is part of what makes you a better player.

What you might not realize, and perhaps it might not matter to you, is that even as a rogue it took me about eight months to finally make fifty. Last wipe I played my first char on Sojourn; I started an enchanter at the beginning of the wipe and when the mud went down a year later I was level 36 and damned proud of it. You gave up how many hours of experience on that death?

One of the reasons Sojourn has so many long-term players is because they're the people who can really stick with it. Don't ask the mud to dumb down for you, learn patience and perseverance instead.
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Postby Drache » Wed Sep 04, 2002 9:00 pm

*SIGH* Bring out the smacker, cuz I got a Chez to hit!

The point isn't dying to a lag death.
The point isn't dying to a no match.
The point isn't dying to a global tracker who was chasing some fool and ran into you/killed you on the way after said fool.
The point is failing res is bullshit as far as the loss.

You all have it in your heads that it's acceptable/the norm. Why are there mostly male ob/gyn's? WHY?!? Why do women accept there aren't many women ob's? Cuz their mom did it so they may as well. SHOW me one guy that would go to have a female doctor shove her finger up your ass! Yeah..that's what I thought.

I'm not brainwashed with the logic that it's acceptable to lose that much exp. *WHINE* OH GO TO ANOTHER MUD THEN..blah blah...doof's My life doesn't revolve around finding escape from rl, such would be the case seeking out another avenue/mud. I liked Sojourn specifically because of Lilithelle. She is the nicest, funniest, smartest person I've ever 'virtually' met. It's wonderful to not know the true age/status of someone and be amazed at how they make you feel. Lilithelle makes people all over happy...best damned person I've never met! So go take your 'GO somewhere else logic and shove it!'

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The watch sez: Time to kill!

[This message has been edited by Drache (edited 09-04-2002).]
Ashiwi
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Postby Ashiwi » Wed Sep 04, 2002 9:02 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Drache:
<B>Shame on the lack of worship for the Goddess Lilithelle!
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is NO lack of worship for Lilithelle!
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Postby Jegzed » Wed Sep 04, 2002 9:17 pm

Experience gained is not always the experience points/levels you have.

CON have nothing to do with wether you can win against a mob or not.

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/Jegzed - Sorcere Master - Crimson Coalition
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Postby Rausrh » Wed Sep 04, 2002 9:24 pm

Silly rangers...

Can I have your stuff?

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Postby Zoldren » Wed Sep 04, 2002 9:34 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Drache:
<B>
**Great that some people's time isn't worth a piss then. Regain exp all you want, dude. If you were able to UNDERSTAND what I wrote, which you didn't, is the notion of playing at your own peril. Bah, I'm sick of people reading and writing non-conclusive responses...Where the HELL did you extrapolate I'd expected a gimme because his con? I wasn't gonna bother with flaming but I'm sick of bs responses that don't address specific points. You show me another invoker who can gain 20% of 49 in three hours...PAY ATTENTION!! It was 5.5 hours for that...There are people that believe that much time is worth more than regaining that despite shit luck. I'm not going to another mud -what's the point?

[This message has been edited by Drache (edited 09-04-2002).]</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


ya me
zoldren 50th lvl
or only 49's need apply?
if you where doing smoke as you said
then it should not have taken you 2 days to get 20%



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Cap'n Touk

Ah the never ending good / evil debate has provided endless amusement for us all has it not? Both sides have a different mentality, evils appear to me as a closer nit group of people who expect a higher standard of play out of each other. Goodies are a broader group of people that cross group frequently and to me appear more easy going.
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Postby torkur » Wed Sep 04, 2002 9:48 pm

Drache, try a vacation instead of quitting. You need it.

Expect to die 2-3x per trip anywhere with an invoker. If you don't, it's a good day. Image

Edit: Oh yea, 20% in 2-4 hours is easy in smoke plane. And I'm a lvl 49 invoker Image

[This message has been edited by torkur (edited 09-04-2002).]
Lilithelle
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Postby Lilithelle » Wed Sep 04, 2002 9:56 pm

I wouldn't be too hard on Drache right now, he's got alot IRL going poorly so its understandable to be frustrated. I hope like so many others he's addicted and can't quit! :P

I found it frustrating too with my elementalist that if i died in a zone even with a ress i'd lose an hours worth of exp. The mage exp tables seem a bit harsh to me. Druid exp wasn't that bad. I'm not sure if you've played a mage lately Cherzra, the exp is certainly much worse than what a troll warrior would experience. I'm just glad mages aren't as flamable as trolls Image

I don't think what happened to Drach was really related to con being so vague at higher levels. But it would be nice to see a few more messages to tell more precisely how small something is. I know as Lil I've conned things no match and gotten badly hurt, 41 cons no match at level 50.

The other thing is that some mobs are insanely hard for their level. Like the magma elemental in the endu volcano on MS. It con's no match but i've taken 400+ damage in one round from it, and i was standing up at the time and had a really good ac. I suspect its only in the 30s in level. Where as there is a crocodile on pirate islands that con's needle but I can kill it easily, its about the easiest level 45ish mob I know. It doesn't cast and does little melee damage. But I guess there isn't much can be done about it, the race and class of a mob makes so much of a difference in toughness.
Lilithelle
PS. Please keep in touch with me Drache I'd like to know how your doing.

[This message has been edited by Lilithelle (edited 09-04-2002).]
rylan
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Postby rylan » Wed Sep 04, 2002 10:02 pm

I'll admit that xp loss at upper levels is painful, especially since the tables are skewed to make levels slightly 46-50 longer and 1-45 slightly faster. As a cleric with hellish xp tables I understand. However, from a personal point of view I didn't do any serious xping once I got level 47. Yeah I messed around on ship for an hour here or there to help other people, but thats it. The rest of the xp I got and lost from zoning.. yeah it takes longer to level, but when you die its part of the normal zone and doesn't feel like you just lost a few hours outside the zone.
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Postby Tasan » Wed Sep 04, 2002 11:04 pm

Wait hold on a minute, he's a ranger bitching about exp?

*inserthystericallaughingnoisehere*

For a minute I thought you were an enchanter, or someone who had to actually take time to level.

Twinshadow

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Postby Daz » Thu Sep 05, 2002 12:00 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Drache:
<B>SHOW me one guy that would go to have a female doctor shove her finger up your ass! Yeah..that's what I thought.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You'd rather a guy do it?

My policy on this with women is:
"You put something in mine, I'm putting something bigger in yours."

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-Daz "<^> (*¿*) <^>" Proudwolf
ssar
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Postby ssar » Thu Sep 05, 2002 12:13 am

Hrm,

Let's see less whining and focusing on apparent crappy aspects of this game we choose to play, and more kickin back, chilling and accepting the risks of it all.

More players need to focus on the fact that this is an *awesome* rpg/fantasy game, that's free (once you have a net connection) and is avail just about 24hrs a day every day.

It's not perfect, it can't be.

Take a break if you get fed up with it.

On with the blood..

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Mogr -=BloodSeeker=-

---
Ashiwi says, 'Wrap a wire around a god's neck and hang on for the ride??? Gimme my spurs!'
---

[This message has been edited by ssar (edited 09-04-2002).]
Rellanor
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Postby Rellanor » Thu Sep 05, 2002 4:18 am

here is an Idea for you Don't exp. You are a lvl 49 invoker you deal more damage per minute in a zone than any other class in the game. Just zone or kick back with Lilithelle eventually you will have lvl 50 again. you don't seem to be a power player so the delay shouldn't be a big deal just let the exp happen in it's on time and enjoy yourself.

Boboloppe the Gnome that encourages kicking back and letting life just float along.
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Postby Dalar » Thu Sep 05, 2002 5:41 am

Exactly what was the point of this thread? Are you trying to convince the gods to make death !exp loss with that negative tone? Or are we suppose to feel sorry for you? Try dying 7x in a row over the span of an hour then losing 2 corpses to rottage b/c i had to go. Either take a break or quit, or do what Rellanor suggests and sit back and relax. The only struggle to gain lvl 50 is your own. If you sit back and relax it'll come, just be patient.

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Postby gruldo » Thu Sep 05, 2002 5:54 am

dude its just exp hike up yer panties..

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Postby celara » Thu Sep 05, 2002 6:45 am

ill take you on in the arena anytime drache


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Postby Deshana » Thu Sep 05, 2002 9:11 am

Death is all part of it.
Sf killed me 20x one night, I still had fun, because its a game.
I've spent 5+hours cring a corpse only to have it fail. I still had fun, spent an hour muttering, but i still had fun.

I was 38% into level 49 the first time I died this level.
By the end of the next day I was at 2% after a lot of resses.
It's a game
Shit happens.
Lilithelle tells me I'm not doing my job well enough!
After all, I'm still clinging to 49.
*grin*

Do Jot, Do TF, those are places for mucho xp. Enjoy it, chill out, have fun.


Desh

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Postby Ambar » Thu Sep 05, 2002 9:17 am

I guess basically we have all been there, done that .. so stop bitchin, dust of the spellbooks and get back to it Image

You fall off a horse .. get right back on

As to your obscure refrences to women and ob/gyn ... I'm STILL wondering what that had to do with the price of lobster in BG ....

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Snurgt
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Postby Snurgt » Thu Sep 05, 2002 12:10 pm

Yeah you lost me at the ob/gyn thing and the rectal exam.

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Postby Corth » Thu Sep 05, 2002 12:18 pm

Level 50 is vastly overrated Image

Corth

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Goddamned slippery mage.
celara
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Postby celara » Thu Sep 05, 2002 12:42 pm

Yeah, the rectal exam thing... uh, mmmkay...
Anyway, Drache, I said this in another post and I will say it here...

There will always be more EQ
There will always be more EXP
There will always be more zones

Nuff' said. Dieing has a penalty because, well, its death! You .died.! Death! Kaput!



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Postby Gormal » Thu Sep 05, 2002 4:51 pm

ress used to be much harsher penalties then it has now when you failed. Con loss was a bitch. Exp is not the core of what makes this place fun. exp is lost sometimes...to bullshit stuff. Also invoker exp is not that hard. take a break, chill out, come back.


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Postby Rigel » Fri Sep 06, 2002 8:28 am

Yeah, the rectal exam thing... uh, mmmkay...


Boy, what he said seems really easy to figure out. It's about 'standard' or accepted belief. Women go to _men_ doctors instead of other women because they're told to/have mostly no other choice in the matter. There aren't enough women ob/gyn's out there.

The exp analogy he gave was that everybody says 'accept the loss' because everybody else has to - looks like quite a few don't feel it's fair to lose that large a sum without a chance to make it back up. When you have a successful res, you STILL lose quite a bit at high level so what's the point of failing (maybe he's inferring, who knows). Who is to say there should be such a large loss? You all just accept it as women do the male doctor for female exam. Hope that sheds light. As for what I think Daz? said. What man is comfy (in general) going to a female doctor for a 'male' problem..like impotency etc. The obvious point is men are in control/are NOT brainwashed into 'it's no big deal' - most women don't like ob visits but accept it. It's a shame people don't think as well as I Image
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Postby Daz » Fri Sep 06, 2002 6:43 pm

The problem is in women's heads. It has nothing to do with male doctors. I know that I, for one, relish going to get my physical. If I get that cute nurse . . . when its time to turn my head and cough . . . I'm like 'oops, I forgot. Do we have to do it again?'

Women should ENJOY the experience, if their only hangup is that a male is doing it, then BAH. Get on with the times.

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-Daz "<^> (*¿*) <^>" Proudwolf
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Postby Daz » Fri Sep 06, 2002 6:45 pm

Oh yeah, if the women are worried about the guy getting satisfaction from her . . . you should be flattered. I'll bet 9 out of 10 patients give the poor doctor a nightmare when he looks down under the hood (no pun intended). If you are beautiful enough to provide the guy with some cheap distraction, then good for you. Your body made someone's day better. And you didn't have to say 'Your welcome.'

Now, doctors who abuse that power are another matter entirely. Surgically remove their thumbs, stick them up their ass and sew it shut. Remove the penis, attach the thumb. No worries.

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-Daz "<^> (*¿*) <^>" Proudwolf
celara
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Postby celara » Fri Sep 06, 2002 7:57 pm

My point is that rectal exams dont have anything to do with failed ress

Unless of course someones violating your corpse. Maybe then.
lol

celery

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Postby Glorishan » Sat Sep 07, 2002 2:27 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Corth:
<B>Level 50 is vastly overrated Image

Corth
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Level what? *boggle* Didn't even realize anything over 48 existed.

Glorishan


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Postby thanuk » Sun Sep 08, 2002 6:39 am

Uhm... Your a level 49 invoker. You deal out enough damage to flatten a mob in seconds, you can do that to a whole room full of mobs at the same time. You expect to be able to SOLO things as well!?! Why even HAVE other classes? We could all just be invokers and destroy everything! Cuz in your world it wouldnt matter if you died you wouldnt lose anything, so you could just keep going in, infernoing, then dying, and eventually just solo ANYTHING! There has to be penalties for mistakes, and even if the mob conned "Easier than Rylan's mom" You still need to realize that your a frail little invoker. GET A TANK! 1 failed ress is nothing to bitch about.
This is the most rediculous thing i've ever heard.


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Thanuk Pantherclaw
Ashemiem
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Postby Ashemiem » Sun Sep 08, 2002 6:58 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Corth:
<B>Level 50 is vastly overrated Image

Corth

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pril tells you 'Come do ship exp!"

You tell Pril 'hell no, ship = booooooring'

Pril tells you 'Who cares, you have to get 50!'

You tell Pril 'Why?'

Pril tells you 'Umm, why not?'

I hate exp. :P Failing a res? The only reason I'd say drop the chance of a failed res would be so I didn't have to listen to people whine and bitch at me when their ress, cast by me, fails.

Let there be consequences. :P

Ashemiem Autumnmoon



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Mplor group-says 'dugmaren must be very proud... he levels us up in smoke and de-levels us in muspelheim'
fildur
Sojourner
Posts: 143
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2001 6:01 am
Location: rinkeby

Postby fildur » Wed Sep 11, 2002 12:52 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Tanji Smanji:
I have to agree with Cherzra on this one. If by lvl 49 you don't know what you're capable of killing then the problem isn't with the mud.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

in some way it is a problem for the mud w all these 40+ n00bs, exp should be harder to get and easier to loose, whats the point w exp when just about everyone runs around at or close to top levels?/fil

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