Give me a break!

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Zen
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Give me a break!

Postby Zen » Thu Sep 19, 2002 2:15 am

http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/Northeast/09/18/sept11.statue.ap/index.html

I'm curious what everyone thinks of this. As an artist, I'm deeply offended by this. From what I can see in the photographs, this was the work of a talented artists and it is tastefully done. I can understand there are a lot of emotions over the events of 9/11 that are contributing to this article, but honestly? Give me a break.

There is something very sincere about this sculpture. To make a piece of art that depicts tradgedy does not demean its victims. I think if anything it honors them because it does not allow us to forget them.

And this in a society that puts art made from the ashes of the artists dead homo-sexual partner and the artists own blood in a gallery and then says if you don't like it don't go see it.

Like I said, I'd be curious to see what ppl have to say, but give me a break and let everyone honor the victims and heros of 9/11 as they can.

-Zenriel

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The Lord of the Iron Wastes holds his hammer high in the air, shouting a torment... 'Weak fools!'
Malacar
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Postby Malacar » Thu Sep 19, 2002 2:29 am

I think people are just really raw with it being the 1 year anniversary. Easy tiger.

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Malacar - omg ymir!
Erthyne
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Postby Erthyne » Thu Sep 19, 2002 2:47 am

I think that statue is nicely done.

That is just the artist's way to express how he feels about the incident.

Do not understand why it needs to be removed. If you don't like it, then don't look at it, just because some were 'offended' by it, doesn't mean anyone has the right to strip of the chance for others who might enjoy that sculpture to experience it.

Everyone has a right to remember 9/11 however they like.
Corth
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Postby Corth » Thu Sep 19, 2002 2:48 am

I have nothing against that work of art. It is very compelling and puts a human face on the abstract idea of a 'terrorist attack'. Other people find it insulting and/or distateful. I think reasonable people can understand both positions. Should RC have removed it? Apparently, it was in their interest to do so. Should they have gone against their own self-interest and continued to display the work? *That* is something that can be debated forever...

Corth

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Goddamned slippery mage.
Ragorn
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Postby Ragorn » Thu Sep 19, 2002 2:52 am

I believe that every time an artist displays a piece of art that is genuinely sincere, a very vocal minority acts to have it removed from the public eye.

Very few artists in any field, be it art, music, literature, or others, can create a piece that is both shocking and true to life without sending easily offended Americans running to their soapboxes. Why is Huckleberry Finn on the banned books list? I never could figure out why small minded parents and short sighted teachers systematically remove every book that teaches children what life is, or was, actually like.

This is just one more example of the same mentality. I was born about.. oh.. 10-15 miles outside of NYC. My entire paternal family still lives in the suburbs, some work in the city. I consider NY to be my home. And let me say, this sculpture is in no way offensive or degrading to the people it commemorates. Some people simply can't differentiate between emotional and obscene.

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- Ragorn
Jenera says 'i managed to match a little, ragorn's outfit is hideous.'
Zen
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Postby Zen » Thu Sep 19, 2002 2:53 am

For me, I take offense because we have this decided trend of supporting artists whos work is intended to provoke controversy. In this case we have a very sincere artist doing very legitimate work, as you can see from the sculpture quite clearly. Yet, the gallery won't step up to his defense. It's a sad state of affairs when someone who wants to pick a fight is supported while doing so and someone who wants to do very valid work has a curtain drapped over him.

-Zenriel

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The Lord of the Iron Wastes holds his hammer high in the air, shouting a torment... 'Weak fools!'
Corth
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Postby Corth » Thu Sep 19, 2002 2:57 am

Nod Zen, that is very frustrating...

If it makes you feel any better, this work isn't going to dissapear. Its just not going to be publically displayed in the near future. And who was it created for anyway? The masses? Or the people who seek out worthy art to satisfy their more sophisticated tastes? If the public doesn't want it, why force it on them? It'll end up in a museum where people that will appreciate it can seek it out...

Corth

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Goddamned slippery mage.

[This message has been edited by Corth (edited 09-18-2002).]
Fura
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Postby Fura » Thu Sep 19, 2002 3:41 am

Next thing you know they'll be saying the problem is because she was nude. If the Spirit of Justice statue isn't acceptable and curtains had to be rented to hide it when it was inconvenient (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1788845.stm), this one must have been even more awkward since it wasn't just one breast that was exposed.

I'm not sure if I could look at the statue, knowing what it meant, and not be upset. But tributes aren't necessarily meant to be painless - if we forget how it felt, we might forget the lesson.

Let's not forget...
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Shevarash
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Postby Shevarash » Thu Sep 19, 2002 6:03 am

Damn. I thought this was going to be about the old Nell Carter sitcom.

What a ripoff.

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<B>Shevarash -- Code Forger of Sojourn3
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[This message has been edited by Shevarash (edited 09-19-2002).]
Gurns
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Postby Gurns » Thu Sep 19, 2002 5:26 pm

It's an excellent, perhaps outstanding piece of art. Certainly for us now, perhaps for the ages, perhaps not, but time will tell.

That's not the issue. Nor is it an issue of taste or obscenity or censorship.

If I read this right, this statue was in the Lower Concourse of Rockefeller Plaza. I'm not a New Yorker, but I believe this is a public area, filled with shops and resturants and is a major subway stop. Thousands of people work down there, tens of thousands pass through there. Not look at it? Don't go see it? They _have_ to pass it.

These are people with a hole in their circle of friends and family, a hole in their skyline, a piece ripped out of their memories and soul. Forget 9/11? How the hell can they? I can't forget it, and I didn't know anyone that died there, and don't live anywhere near NY.

I'm not sure that statute should ever be put out in public. (Imagine your six-year old asking "What's that lady doing?" Do you want to explain it to him or her?) But to put it out now, when the memory is still so raw? Maybe the folks who decided to put it there need to remember a little more clearly how it felt. How it still feels.

[This message has been edited by Gurns (edited 09-19-2002).]
Waelos
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Postby Waelos » Thu Sep 19, 2002 7:08 pm

Question:

How many of the people who jumped/fell were naked? How can this be a tribute? I don't think censorship is right, but I'd be quite appalled if my statue of a naked five year old running around on fire was displayed in central park. "Oh! but it is MY tribute! it is MY art! Fuck all of you uncultured curs who can't appreciate my self expression! You have no right to censor this!" How about I pay a tribute to all of Jeffery Dahmer's victims by having a nice little carved human torso being devoured by an effigy of Mr. Dahmer himself? Or how about I set up an nice ceramic gas chamber filled with dead bodies. Is that OK? Maybe a bronze statue of a bullet hole ridden corpse of a soldier would look quite spanky on the steps of the white house to pay 'tribute' to our fallen warriors? Where do we draw the line between 'art' and 'tasteless'?

Certainly anything borderline should be kept out of the public where passers by have no choice but to look at it. I agree with Gurns. . . people who work and live there have no choice if they don't want to look at it. It would be like wallpapering your apartment building's stairwell and elevators with playboy pictures. You can't NOT see it, its just there.

My personal opinion is that the statue was done in poor taste to illicit a reaction from the public and to put the artist's name 'on the map' so they can make money. Everyone wants to 'shock' everyone else so badly these days. . .'LOOK AT ME! Im Eccentric and Artsy! OMG LOOK AT ME!' It is so chic to be contraversial. *yawn*

Just because we're not being poked in the eye with something every 10 minutes does not mean we will forget.

Lost.

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moritheil
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Postby moritheil » Thu Sep 19, 2002 8:20 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Waelos:
<B>Question:

How many of the people who jumped/fell were naked? How can this be a tribute?

Lost.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The nakedness is a symbol of their vulnerability. Personally I thought that was obvious, but I can see how your gut reaction would be against it.

I agree that there are some who take things too far in the name of art, but there are at least as many if not more who truly and passionately believe in what they do. Why condemn the many for the sake of the few?

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Gormal tells you 'creating spank'

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