Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil
Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil
Ooh, it's venting time.
So we're playing through this adventure in my D&D campaign (3rd edition). We've been slugging the whole way through it, all the way from 4th level. The average party level is 12 now, we've been playing this one adventure for a semester and a half.
This is the worst book adventure I've ever played.
The plot is good, the throwback to the old ToEE is good, and the dungeon is fairly well laid out. However, the overriding theme through the dungeon, from day one all the way through the top of the High Cleric's Tower near the end of the adventure has been "Don't touch ANYTHING." The DM will read a room description, and it will include an item like a tapestry or basin of water. Touching, looking into, or even rolling a Search check on most of these items triggers a saving throw to avoid level drain, ability loss, immediate death, or worse (and yes, there's worse).
Tonight, while doing a general search of a room, I set of a Symbol of Insanity with no saving throw. I then failed two search checks on two doors (the DC was 28) and set off two Glyphs of Warding for 4d4 damage each.
We fought a level 14 cleric twice. The first time, he was in a room with Forbiddance, which meant that only characters making a successful Will save could even enter the room. His first action was to summon two air elementals. After we finally beat him and he worded away (no equipment for us), the Sorc entered the room to search it, since nobody else made their save. He rolled a search, and triggered a Death Symbol, no saving throw.
The second time, the Cleric opened with Destruction on me (destroys your body and equipment, if you make a Fort save you "only" take 10d6 damage) and I failed the save. Next round, the Barbarian failed her save vs. Slay Living. The fight went for 2 hours, and again he worded and left us nothing.
The final fight for this branch of the adventure was with a single level 15 cleric. He had all the regular buffs, except forbiddance (thankfully). However, upon entering his room, we were all required to make a Will save. Everyone who failed saw an image of their most loved one being sacrificed on an altar, and required a second Will save. Failing the 2nd save meant they spent the first few rounds trying to save their loved one, not fighting. Everyone, regardless of the results of those throws, made ANOTHER Will save to avoid being transfixed for 3 rounds (unable to act) upon entering the room.
The Barbarian failed all 3 Will saves, and was out for the entire fight dealing with the above effects. The Sorc was transfixed. The evil cleric (different one from above) opened with a horizontal Blade Barrier. I quaffed fly and haste, and flew around trying to Bull Rush him into the blade barrier. I natural 20'd my second roll and still failed. Long story short, we won because of a summoned Huge Earth Elemental, and the fact that the Paladin landed one amazing hit: Critial hit + Divine Sacrifice maxed out + Smite Evil for a total of 70 damage.
I searched the altar after the fight. The first time, I was drained of 5 strength and 6 con, Fortitude DC 26 (my modifier is +10, giving me about a 25% chance of success). The second time, I failed another Fortitude save DC 24 or so and was sucked into the altar, all my possessions falling on the ground. It will take two Wishes or Miracles to recover my body. This came right after I spent about 80,000 gold (a good draw off the Deck of Many Things helped) on defensive items, from a Scarab of Protection to a Cloak of Resistance +5... none helped whatsoever.
One of my first characters in the adventure was a Cleric who was drained of 16 permanent Constitution from traps over the course of one session, cutting his life short abruptly.
We found a Tome of Vile Darkness, which cost the Paladin tens of thousands of experience and very nearly killed my character completely.
We found an intelligent door, and the module gave no clear way to pass it. The only method given was to be disguised and have Undetectable Alignment and Undetectable Thoughts active the first time you encounter the door.. who walks around like that?
We were taken by surprise by a single Elder Earth Elemental, who squashed my level 10 Dwarven Fighter in one massive, 80-damage critical hit.
In order to get as far as we have, the DM had to provide the party with instant, unlimited access to True Resurrection, Wish, and Miracle for the purpose of reviving characters. Often we'll slug through a fight and use 90% of the proceeds to resurrect anyone who failed a saving throw during the fight or made a search check in the room afterwards.
So to summarize, this is an exciting adventure completely RUINED by the constant threat of instant death or despair looming over our heads. All of the players are afraid to touch things, search, open doors, read books, or take treasure for fear of being instantly killed or being drained of experience or ability points. In addition, the enemies we fight are 4-7 levels above us, giving them access to spells against which we have no defense yet (like Destruction and Wall of Force). Several of the more deadly traps involve imprisonment or destruction of the character's soul, so you can't protect against them with Death Ward. Finally, 90% of the fights in the last few sessions have been against upper level clerics with insane armor class and spell resistance, who have access to domains and abilities PCs don't get to use. The cleric in the final fight above had a 35 armor class and spell resistance of 27... our party's Sorcerer had a 25% of getting a spell through.
If you're a D&D player and are considering running this adventure, don't. The dungeon map is absolutely colossal, and the players will wander around literally for months unable to figure out the puzzles because they're afraid to search for clues. It's like playing on a mud with instant death rooms, you're afraid to explore zones because any room you enter could cost you your entire set.
There are also no towns or convenient safe points in the entire module, so characters rack up tens of thousands of gold worth of treasure with nothing to spend it on until they can Teleport to the city, a week's walk away. Any crafting feats the characters take are worthless, since they're in this one dungeon from level 4 through 14 with no time to stop to spend a week making items.
Thanks for reading
- Ragorn
a.k.a Cactrot, the Reluctant Rogue
[This message has been edited by Ragorn (edited 09-30-2002).]
So we're playing through this adventure in my D&D campaign (3rd edition). We've been slugging the whole way through it, all the way from 4th level. The average party level is 12 now, we've been playing this one adventure for a semester and a half.
This is the worst book adventure I've ever played.
The plot is good, the throwback to the old ToEE is good, and the dungeon is fairly well laid out. However, the overriding theme through the dungeon, from day one all the way through the top of the High Cleric's Tower near the end of the adventure has been "Don't touch ANYTHING." The DM will read a room description, and it will include an item like a tapestry or basin of water. Touching, looking into, or even rolling a Search check on most of these items triggers a saving throw to avoid level drain, ability loss, immediate death, or worse (and yes, there's worse).
Tonight, while doing a general search of a room, I set of a Symbol of Insanity with no saving throw. I then failed two search checks on two doors (the DC was 28) and set off two Glyphs of Warding for 4d4 damage each.
We fought a level 14 cleric twice. The first time, he was in a room with Forbiddance, which meant that only characters making a successful Will save could even enter the room. His first action was to summon two air elementals. After we finally beat him and he worded away (no equipment for us), the Sorc entered the room to search it, since nobody else made their save. He rolled a search, and triggered a Death Symbol, no saving throw.
The second time, the Cleric opened with Destruction on me (destroys your body and equipment, if you make a Fort save you "only" take 10d6 damage) and I failed the save. Next round, the Barbarian failed her save vs. Slay Living. The fight went for 2 hours, and again he worded and left us nothing.
The final fight for this branch of the adventure was with a single level 15 cleric. He had all the regular buffs, except forbiddance (thankfully). However, upon entering his room, we were all required to make a Will save. Everyone who failed saw an image of their most loved one being sacrificed on an altar, and required a second Will save. Failing the 2nd save meant they spent the first few rounds trying to save their loved one, not fighting. Everyone, regardless of the results of those throws, made ANOTHER Will save to avoid being transfixed for 3 rounds (unable to act) upon entering the room.
The Barbarian failed all 3 Will saves, and was out for the entire fight dealing with the above effects. The Sorc was transfixed. The evil cleric (different one from above) opened with a horizontal Blade Barrier. I quaffed fly and haste, and flew around trying to Bull Rush him into the blade barrier. I natural 20'd my second roll and still failed. Long story short, we won because of a summoned Huge Earth Elemental, and the fact that the Paladin landed one amazing hit: Critial hit + Divine Sacrifice maxed out + Smite Evil for a total of 70 damage.
I searched the altar after the fight. The first time, I was drained of 5 strength and 6 con, Fortitude DC 26 (my modifier is +10, giving me about a 25% chance of success). The second time, I failed another Fortitude save DC 24 or so and was sucked into the altar, all my possessions falling on the ground. It will take two Wishes or Miracles to recover my body. This came right after I spent about 80,000 gold (a good draw off the Deck of Many Things helped) on defensive items, from a Scarab of Protection to a Cloak of Resistance +5... none helped whatsoever.
One of my first characters in the adventure was a Cleric who was drained of 16 permanent Constitution from traps over the course of one session, cutting his life short abruptly.
We found a Tome of Vile Darkness, which cost the Paladin tens of thousands of experience and very nearly killed my character completely.
We found an intelligent door, and the module gave no clear way to pass it. The only method given was to be disguised and have Undetectable Alignment and Undetectable Thoughts active the first time you encounter the door.. who walks around like that?
We were taken by surprise by a single Elder Earth Elemental, who squashed my level 10 Dwarven Fighter in one massive, 80-damage critical hit.
In order to get as far as we have, the DM had to provide the party with instant, unlimited access to True Resurrection, Wish, and Miracle for the purpose of reviving characters. Often we'll slug through a fight and use 90% of the proceeds to resurrect anyone who failed a saving throw during the fight or made a search check in the room afterwards.
So to summarize, this is an exciting adventure completely RUINED by the constant threat of instant death or despair looming over our heads. All of the players are afraid to touch things, search, open doors, read books, or take treasure for fear of being instantly killed or being drained of experience or ability points. In addition, the enemies we fight are 4-7 levels above us, giving them access to spells against which we have no defense yet (like Destruction and Wall of Force). Several of the more deadly traps involve imprisonment or destruction of the character's soul, so you can't protect against them with Death Ward. Finally, 90% of the fights in the last few sessions have been against upper level clerics with insane armor class and spell resistance, who have access to domains and abilities PCs don't get to use. The cleric in the final fight above had a 35 armor class and spell resistance of 27... our party's Sorcerer had a 25% of getting a spell through.
If you're a D&D player and are considering running this adventure, don't. The dungeon map is absolutely colossal, and the players will wander around literally for months unable to figure out the puzzles because they're afraid to search for clues. It's like playing on a mud with instant death rooms, you're afraid to explore zones because any room you enter could cost you your entire set.
There are also no towns or convenient safe points in the entire module, so characters rack up tens of thousands of gold worth of treasure with nothing to spend it on until they can Teleport to the city, a week's walk away. Any crafting feats the characters take are worthless, since they're in this one dungeon from level 4 through 14 with no time to stop to spend a week making items.
Thanks for reading
- Ragorn
a.k.a Cactrot, the Reluctant Rogue
[This message has been edited by Ragorn (edited 09-30-2002).]
In 3rd edition, you NEED a high level rogue.
Go hire one as a henchman or an NPC.
Conventional search checks beyond DC20 are not ALLOWED to be successful by anyone except a rogue.
That's why you're failing everything.
My party is slumming through the WotC 'official' module series, and it's rough. I instituted several failsafe rules, though I have killed every character 3+ times each now. They are obsessed with a certain type of hack and slash playing, and I am trying to break them out of it... It's hard.
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Malacar - omg ymir!
Go hire one as a henchman or an NPC.
Conventional search checks beyond DC20 are not ALLOWED to be successful by anyone except a rogue.
That's why you're failing everything.
My party is slumming through the WotC 'official' module series, and it's rough. I instituted several failsafe rules, though I have killed every character 3+ times each now. They are obsessed with a certain type of hack and slash playing, and I am trying to break them out of it... It's hard.
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Malacar - omg ymir!
Sorry, I forgot to mention that I'm an 11th level single class rogue, with 17 intelligence and most of my important skills maxed. As it stands right now, a good percentage of the traps we've encountered are glyphs and symbols which trigger when you look at them, no chance to disable. My character's title is "Cactrot the Reluctant Rogue" because he knows full well when he searches a room that he'll probably get level drained, killed, imprisoned, or banished... but someone has to do it
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- Ragorn
You group-say 'What's up, bro?'
Touk group-says 'Accounting homework and skill practice.'
You group-say 'Ewww... which is worse?'
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- Ragorn
You group-say 'What's up, bro?'
Touk group-says 'Accounting homework and skill practice.'
You group-say 'Ewww... which is worse?'
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Malacar:
<B>Dude... are you taking 20 when disabling a trap or searching?
Don't do anything other than taking 20, or yer insane.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Just a small BTW, you can't take 20 on disabling tracks and such stuff, if there's any risk for failing the roll(ie disabling trap, climbing walls, etc.), you can't take 20. If you took the special rogue ability upon reach 10th with rogue, then you could select a few abilities(= to int modifier if i recall correctly) for which you could automatically take 10, but not 20.
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Zazyg Ark'Henneld
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Jesus Saves
Allah Protects
Cuthullu thinks you would make a pretty good lunch
<B>Dude... are you taking 20 when disabling a trap or searching?
Don't do anything other than taking 20, or yer insane.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Just a small BTW, you can't take 20 on disabling tracks and such stuff, if there's any risk for failing the roll(ie disabling trap, climbing walls, etc.), you can't take 20. If you took the special rogue ability upon reach 10th with rogue, then you could select a few abilities(= to int modifier if i recall correctly) for which you could automatically take 10, but not 20.
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Zazyg Ark'Henneld
-----------------
Jesus Saves
Allah Protects
Cuthullu thinks you would make a pretty good lunch
Rolling a search check in a 10x10 area takes 2 minutes. To take 20 on a skill multiplies the time required by 20. Thusly, doing the math, taking 20 to search a 30x40 room (a reasonable room size in a dungeon) would take approximately 8 hours (12 10x10 spaces x 2 minutes per space x 20 for taking 20). Even taking 20 on searching a door for traps would take about 40 minutes, and you can't spend an hour searching, disarming, and unlocking every time you have to open a door.
That's why you don't take 20 on search checks You can take 20 on quick skills with no immediate penalty for failure, like Open Lock. You can take 10, however, on almost any skill practiced out of combat. I very regularly take 10 on detection skills and primary lock opening attempts, both to save time and avoid the critical failure of rolling a natural one.
My thief's search skill is currently +19. Taking 10 on search means I discover anything hidden on less than DC 30. Consider also that the way DC is designed, a normal untrained human will only succeed 50% of the time on a task with DC 12.
A Bard rolling a DC 30 Perform check is noted as being so good he has the potential to attract the attention of extraplanar beings.
Listening on DC 30 is the equivalent of hearing an unarmored person moving slowly, trying not to make noise, 50 ft. away through a stone wall.
A DC 30 Jump check would allow a 6 ft. human to take a running jump over a 25 foot chasm.
A DC 30 Climb check would allow me to easily climb up a wet brick wall with no climbing equipment.
A DC 30 Balance check would allow me to walk down an icy tightrope 1 inch thick sloped downwards at a 30 degree angle.
And yet, with a Search check of 29, I can't find a trap I KNOW will be there on a simple wooden door. My point here is that this adventure is made difficult through unreasonably difficult modifiers, not through well planned combats or dire circumstances. It's like when they beefed up SF by adding a shitload of nobash wraithform clerics... it's not pleasantly challenging, it's frustrating.
And yeah, I'm named after the Final Fantasy monster.. cause he's hard as balls to hit, and 10,000 Needles is ownage
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- Ragorn
You group-say 'What's up, bro?'
Touk group-says 'Accounting homework and skill practice.'
You group-say 'Ewww... which is worse?'
That's why you don't take 20 on search checks You can take 20 on quick skills with no immediate penalty for failure, like Open Lock. You can take 10, however, on almost any skill practiced out of combat. I very regularly take 10 on detection skills and primary lock opening attempts, both to save time and avoid the critical failure of rolling a natural one.
My thief's search skill is currently +19. Taking 10 on search means I discover anything hidden on less than DC 30. Consider also that the way DC is designed, a normal untrained human will only succeed 50% of the time on a task with DC 12.
A Bard rolling a DC 30 Perform check is noted as being so good he has the potential to attract the attention of extraplanar beings.
Listening on DC 30 is the equivalent of hearing an unarmored person moving slowly, trying not to make noise, 50 ft. away through a stone wall.
A DC 30 Jump check would allow a 6 ft. human to take a running jump over a 25 foot chasm.
A DC 30 Climb check would allow me to easily climb up a wet brick wall with no climbing equipment.
A DC 30 Balance check would allow me to walk down an icy tightrope 1 inch thick sloped downwards at a 30 degree angle.
And yet, with a Search check of 29, I can't find a trap I KNOW will be there on a simple wooden door. My point here is that this adventure is made difficult through unreasonably difficult modifiers, not through well planned combats or dire circumstances. It's like when they beefed up SF by adding a shitload of nobash wraithform clerics... it's not pleasantly challenging, it's frustrating.
And yeah, I'm named after the Final Fantasy monster.. cause he's hard as balls to hit, and 10,000 Needles is ownage
------------------
- Ragorn
You group-say 'What's up, bro?'
Touk group-says 'Accounting homework and skill practice.'
You group-say 'Ewww... which is worse?'
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by sok:
Shoot the gazebo w/ your bow.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
bwuahaha. I remember reading where that's from a long time ago. Laughed so hard at that. Anyway, carry on.
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Rurga Split Skull
http://members.rogers.com/zerolove/nicetallglass.jpg
Shoot the gazebo w/ your bow.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
bwuahaha. I remember reading where that's from a long time ago. Laughed so hard at that. Anyway, carry on.
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Rurga Split Skull
http://members.rogers.com/zerolove/nicetallglass.jpg
Choose your own Adventure!
After near killing yourself on a trapped wooden door, you open it to find a cleric with Forbiddance, and or other wards all up around him, standing in a 10x10 dungeon room starring demonically your way. He looks Uber and mightly ready to kick the living piss out of your entire party with one or two spells max. His entire body is a glow with fantastic magical powers. What do you want to do?
A) Avoid the issue. Close the door and go to the next.
B) Be evil and revel in your vileness! Grab your priest and drag him kicking and screaming, while punching him with the butt of your weapon a few times for good measure, to the evil cleric claiming, ‘Master kill this blasphemous dog for not knowing the truth of your ways! He preaches such profanity it screams for divine retribution, and who better then by your hand!?’ (Subsequently distracting the cleric to allow your rogue, hiding in the shadows, to sneak attack the Cleric from behind.)
C) Be a twink. Close door. Inform mage types to forget all spells in the circle where ‘delayed blast fireball’ takes up and mem it appropriately. When they are ready, open door, spam fireballs, close door, repeat until cleric is dead. Cast dispel magic on room until you hear multiple pops of spell dissipation. Have priest cast Raise Dead on cleric’s body and order animated deadie to search room and/or move any objects around. Do this as many times as it takes. Can always re-raise him. Do not enter room, if cleric worded, summon a lesser elemental to do the work instead.
D) Be a dumbass. Charge into the room blindly and engage the cleric in melee combat.
??
Stop picking D!!
You bonk Ragorn on top of the head!
Ragorn asks you, 'Can I join your D&D group?'
You tell Ragorn, 'VETO'
Caedym Shadowhock -some dude working for Oghma who still loves to harass Rags
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After near killing yourself on a trapped wooden door, you open it to find a cleric with Forbiddance, and or other wards all up around him, standing in a 10x10 dungeon room starring demonically your way. He looks Uber and mightly ready to kick the living piss out of your entire party with one or two spells max. His entire body is a glow with fantastic magical powers. What do you want to do?
A) Avoid the issue. Close the door and go to the next.
B) Be evil and revel in your vileness! Grab your priest and drag him kicking and screaming, while punching him with the butt of your weapon a few times for good measure, to the evil cleric claiming, ‘Master kill this blasphemous dog for not knowing the truth of your ways! He preaches such profanity it screams for divine retribution, and who better then by your hand!?’ (Subsequently distracting the cleric to allow your rogue, hiding in the shadows, to sneak attack the Cleric from behind.)
C) Be a twink. Close door. Inform mage types to forget all spells in the circle where ‘delayed blast fireball’ takes up and mem it appropriately. When they are ready, open door, spam fireballs, close door, repeat until cleric is dead. Cast dispel magic on room until you hear multiple pops of spell dissipation. Have priest cast Raise Dead on cleric’s body and order animated deadie to search room and/or move any objects around. Do this as many times as it takes. Can always re-raise him. Do not enter room, if cleric worded, summon a lesser elemental to do the work instead.
D) Be a dumbass. Charge into the room blindly and engage the cleric in melee combat.
??
Stop picking D!!
You bonk Ragorn on top of the head!
Ragorn asks you, 'Can I join your D&D group?'
You tell Ragorn, 'VETO'
Caedym Shadowhock -some dude working for Oghma who still loves to harass Rags
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Erm...
It takes 1 round (6 seconds) to search a 5x5 area. pg73 in the players handbook
Taking 20 on this means it takes 1 minute to search a 5x5 area.
Your 30x40 room contains 24 'wall' squares, of which usually 40% of them can be weeded out to not contain things (abutted to other rooms, doors, or other ornamentation). This means that approcimately 13 squares might contain secrets, but we'll say 16 for arguements sake. 16 minutes is not a hella long time to search a room to be safe.
And also, in the DMG, I forget where offhand, but it suggests the dM encourage players to take 20 on such checks, and encourage taking 10 and 20 when at all possible.
I've played in and run RttToEE, and my players had a lot of fun, as did I when I played in it. We had a funky group mix (no wizard or sorceror.. ick), but the rogue saved our lives countless times, but of course stole loot too.
You and your GM might want to sit down and revise how you are doing things. There is no rule that says you can't modify the system a bit. If you're not having fun, or getting frustrated repeatedly, that's a sign to me, as a GM of 15 years, that something needs to change a bit. Perhaps a house rule is in order.
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Malacar - omg ymir!
It takes 1 round (6 seconds) to search a 5x5 area. pg73 in the players handbook
Taking 20 on this means it takes 1 minute to search a 5x5 area.
Your 30x40 room contains 24 'wall' squares, of which usually 40% of them can be weeded out to not contain things (abutted to other rooms, doors, or other ornamentation). This means that approcimately 13 squares might contain secrets, but we'll say 16 for arguements sake. 16 minutes is not a hella long time to search a room to be safe.
And also, in the DMG, I forget where offhand, but it suggests the dM encourage players to take 20 on such checks, and encourage taking 10 and 20 when at all possible.
I've played in and run RttToEE, and my players had a lot of fun, as did I when I played in it. We had a funky group mix (no wizard or sorceror.. ick), but the rogue saved our lives countless times, but of course stole loot too.
You and your GM might want to sit down and revise how you are doing things. There is no rule that says you can't modify the system a bit. If you're not having fun, or getting frustrated repeatedly, that's a sign to me, as a GM of 15 years, that something needs to change a bit. Perhaps a house rule is in order.
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Malacar - omg ymir!
Caedym:
We have a paladin in the group, and our cleric is also lawful good. Option B is never really an option... lord knows I've tried
Option C was our original plan. The sorc fired off a fireball into the room. Pfft, spell resistance. Another. Pfft. Magic missiles, pfft. He had an ice storm, which landed for about 16 damage. I tried my magic missile wand, and the DM informed me I'd need to roll a 19 to break the SR, using my level 7 MM wand.
Illustration: Spell Resistance, the spell, gives the caster SR of 12 + caster level. The cleric was level 14 at this time, making his SR 26. To penetrate that, you roll 1d20 and add your caster level. Our party was 8-9 at the time, meaning we'd need to roll 17-18 to get a spell through.
Dispel Magic would be one step easier, but still tough. Dispelling carries a DC of 11 + the spell caster's level. 11 + 14 = 25. 25-9 = 16. So the sorc had a 25% chance to dispel the forbiddance, and while he was trying, he wasn't trying to do damage.
Malacar: You're right, searching a 5x5 area is a full round, I misread something later on. Thus searching a 30x40 room should take 4.8 minutes, and taking 20 would take "only" an hour and a half.
And yeah, we're working on adding some additional house rules to make the campaign more doable. We already have unlimited selection of magic items to purchase, and access to all spells available at cost.
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- Ragorn
You group-say 'What's up, bro?'
Touk group-says 'Accounting homework and skill practice.'
You group-say 'Ewww... which is worse?'
We have a paladin in the group, and our cleric is also lawful good. Option B is never really an option... lord knows I've tried
Option C was our original plan. The sorc fired off a fireball into the room. Pfft, spell resistance. Another. Pfft. Magic missiles, pfft. He had an ice storm, which landed for about 16 damage. I tried my magic missile wand, and the DM informed me I'd need to roll a 19 to break the SR, using my level 7 MM wand.
Illustration: Spell Resistance, the spell, gives the caster SR of 12 + caster level. The cleric was level 14 at this time, making his SR 26. To penetrate that, you roll 1d20 and add your caster level. Our party was 8-9 at the time, meaning we'd need to roll 17-18 to get a spell through.
Dispel Magic would be one step easier, but still tough. Dispelling carries a DC of 11 + the spell caster's level. 11 + 14 = 25. 25-9 = 16. So the sorc had a 25% chance to dispel the forbiddance, and while he was trying, he wasn't trying to do damage.
Malacar: You're right, searching a 5x5 area is a full round, I misread something later on. Thus searching a 30x40 room should take 4.8 minutes, and taking 20 would take "only" an hour and a half.
And yeah, we're working on adding some additional house rules to make the campaign more doable. We already have unlimited selection of magic items to purchase, and access to all spells available at cost.
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- Ragorn
You group-say 'What's up, bro?'
Touk group-says 'Accounting homework and skill practice.'
You group-say 'Ewww... which is worse?'
Your equasion assumes you are searching all floor tiles and all wall tiles.. Some are just not viable. Squares with doors and squares with abutting rooms can be ruled out.. It doesn't take that long. Just search in places you have a good hunch about, make a list of others, and go back later to search the random ones.
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Malacar - omg ymir!
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Malacar - omg ymir!
Knock....lots and lots of knock spells!! he's a sorc..a veritable battery of them...after he's out of spells...forget it. relax have a beer...the bibits come to you? kewl!! don't worry your pali will probably charge!! sneak away and hide until the fight seems to be going your way...or be noble, charge with the pali...bleh. Nothing like summoning bibits to do your dirty work. Mage hand works wonders as well for picking light things up and transposing them safely in containers for later examination(stand back in case of blast type trap triggered by removal of item.) I guess I just like to try and twink my way around things without actually getting too involved....although it has resulted in a few of my characters deaths at other party members hands. RIGHT ZAZYG!!...whatya mean sanctuary is a crappy spell that i abuse too much? (Zsasz grumbles as he grabs the d6's after the fight...almost got em too damn you for joining them ZAZ!!)....anyways try and creatively apply all spells you have...just burn the damned wooden doors down!! Granted though..a continuous stream of traps of that make do become annoying, especially as the rogue, you're supposed to be able to disarm them and can't even get near them. although i thought there was some sort of rule on it. some check to notice one is there without triggering it's effects...maybe it's spellcraft, knowledge arcana? unsure.
As for MR i say go poisons...and frig if you have a craft poison skill of 19-20 complain that you should be able to concoct some sort of poison out of chewing gum and felt or something. your practically mcguyver!!! or garrote..gotta love garrote...or if it's a caster mob...silence the area or throw one of those touch level drain/insta death items at the damned creature. I remember the DM put an orb in a room that if touched would trigger lightning bolts to cascade everywhere dealing 10d6 damage to everything within like 50'....rofl DM regretted it as Zazyg and I twinked it and would pull it out on the creatures after we'd gotten our prot lightning rings....ROFL THE ORB OF DEATH!! actually I've noticed DMs tend to be very cautious with traps of wierd natures around zazyg and I as we tend to use them to our advantage. just an option don't know if you could in all of those situations buuut there had to be a few.
although those rooms do sound annoying. anyways sounds like a kewl adventure to die in a buncha times!! a well just my rambling two cents.
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The problem with the world is that everyone
is a few drinks behind.
> --Humphrey Bogart
As for MR i say go poisons...and frig if you have a craft poison skill of 19-20 complain that you should be able to concoct some sort of poison out of chewing gum and felt or something. your practically mcguyver!!! or garrote..gotta love garrote...or if it's a caster mob...silence the area or throw one of those touch level drain/insta death items at the damned creature. I remember the DM put an orb in a room that if touched would trigger lightning bolts to cascade everywhere dealing 10d6 damage to everything within like 50'....rofl DM regretted it as Zazyg and I twinked it and would pull it out on the creatures after we'd gotten our prot lightning rings....ROFL THE ORB OF DEATH!! actually I've noticed DMs tend to be very cautious with traps of wierd natures around zazyg and I as we tend to use them to our advantage. just an option don't know if you could in all of those situations buuut there had to be a few.
although those rooms do sound annoying. anyways sounds like a kewl adventure to die in a buncha times!! a well just my rambling two cents.
------------------
The problem with the world is that everyone
is a few drinks behind.
> --Humphrey Bogart
Poison was quickly vetoed by the Paladin and lawful good Cleric I have 30 vials of various poison just in case the goodie goodies blink too often though
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- Ragorn
You group-say 'What's up, bro?'
Touk group-says 'Accounting homework and skill practice.'
You group-say 'Ewww... which is worse?'
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- Ragorn
You group-say 'What's up, bro?'
Touk group-says 'Accounting homework and skill practice.'
You group-say 'Ewww... which is worse?'
Halfling prisoner: I.. I can't tell you any more, they'll know, they'll kill me, they'll raise me as one of those .... things......
Me: Dude, we should kill him ourselves and Speak with Dead him. We'll get the answer, and he won't have to worry about being a zombie.
The Paladin: *glare*
The Cleric: How many potions of CSW do you have? Is that enough for the rest of the adventure?
------------------
- Ragorn
You group-say 'What's up, bro?'
Touk group-says 'Accounting homework and skill practice.'
You group-say 'Ewww... which is worse?'
Me: Dude, we should kill him ourselves and Speak with Dead him. We'll get the answer, and he won't have to worry about being a zombie.
The Paladin: *glare*
The Cleric: How many potions of CSW do you have? Is that enough for the rest of the adventure?
------------------
- Ragorn
You group-say 'What's up, bro?'
Touk group-says 'Accounting homework and skill practice.'
You group-say 'Ewww... which is worse?'
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Branthur:
<B>Have to admit that I did kind of tone down some of the traps when I ran RtToEE. But of course, that was mainly because the party was very apt at killing themselves without my help. Right Lazus?
That and I had an NPC of my own making life miserable for them....</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
OMG...the number of times our rogue died...it was insane. I don't remember most of it.. was too long ago, but from what I do remember, it was pretty brutal.
Lazus Al'Medin
------------------
You are now a member of Mori's Funky Chickens
You shout 'Help! Moritheil is trying to kill me at A Wide Dirt Road!'
Shevarash shouts 'What else is new?'
<B>Have to admit that I did kind of tone down some of the traps when I ran RtToEE. But of course, that was mainly because the party was very apt at killing themselves without my help. Right Lazus?
That and I had an NPC of my own making life miserable for them....</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
OMG...the number of times our rogue died...it was insane. I don't remember most of it.. was too long ago, but from what I do remember, it was pretty brutal.
Lazus Al'Medin
------------------
You are now a member of Mori's Funky Chickens
You shout 'Help! Moritheil is trying to kill me at A Wide Dirt Road!'
Shevarash shouts 'What else is new?'
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