Decrease exp needed for level

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kragt
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Decrease exp needed for level

Postby kragt » Fri Oct 04, 2002 7:18 pm

Would it be that big of an unbalancing factor if the exp needed to level was reduced across the board? Experience hunting has always been one of the most mind numbing and boring things of any online role playing game. This may also help increase the player base, since people would not have to be hardcore players that spend 30 hours a week playing to get to a point where they could go do fun zones. Any thoughts?

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Dalar
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Postby Dalar » Fri Oct 04, 2002 7:26 pm

I'd also like to point out how many noobs there are that still have lvl 50. Making level 50 like 5% easier to get won't make everyone gods overnight or in a few months.

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Postby Tilandal » Fri Oct 04, 2002 7:27 pm

First exp for levels 1-40 was already reduced.

Second there are lots of fun zones that you can do from level 25-40.

I dotn see a huge problem here.

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Postby Daz » Fri Oct 04, 2002 7:33 pm

level 1-45, not 40

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Postby Yayaril » Fri Oct 04, 2002 7:53 pm

You don't have to be able to play 30 hours a week to get to zoning level. If you can't play more than 2 hours at a time to get some experience, then you probably won't be able to do zones either- since those require usually more than 2 hours each.

I'd also like to ask what 'zoning level' is? There are zones for people level 1 to 50. There isn't some mystical locked cave you have to sit in and gain experience. Then you reach some magic level and all of a sudden the cave opens and you can go out zoning.

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[This message has been edited by Yayaril (edited 10-04-2002).]
moritheil
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Postby moritheil » Fri Oct 04, 2002 9:00 pm

well put yaya.

(wow, did I just type that?)

I'll be happy to take you to die in zones sometime kragt. Look me up.

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kragt
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Postby kragt » Fri Oct 04, 2002 9:50 pm

Ok lemme clarify a few things. Its not the time itself that is the real factor but rather the fact that I have to spend literally days of time doing something that is mindless and repetitive. There are a lot of zones that I could do, but it is very difficult to get a group of people together who have both the time and the inclination to go to them. It would be nice to either see the amount of time I have to spend killing repeatedly dropped, or alternate ways of getting experience added to the game.

One suggestion for this would be to add exploration exp to the game. As you explore the world you get a very small amount of exp. This should not be a replacement for kill exp, but should be enough to encourage people to move around as they xp hunt.

Another suggestion is to change the way the trophy system works. Make it so you receive bonus experience the first N times you kill a mob, and the trophy penalty increases rapidly after that.

I am playing and evil race which may be contributing a great deal to my impatience with xp hunting. I am not sure if the situation is the same on the good race side. I have about 2 days playing time on my character now, and most of that has been spent doing laps around DK. One of the reasons for this I suspect is most of the lower level evils are alts. They have no need to go zoning for the low level gear, and don't want to go exploring, especially with their lower level character. As a note to all the evils, it wouldn't kill ya to leave DK once in a while, and if you ever have the urge to do so just look me up.

I would love to go exploring and die in strange and mysterious ways, I just prefer not to do it alone. A spank is always more fun when you have a whole group full of people to cr instead of just yourself.

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Xisiqomelir
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Postby Xisiqomelir » Sat Oct 05, 2002 3:57 am

I think I invited you for non-DK, non-ship exp before, I'll be happy to do so again (DAMN those last 43 notches)

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Ambar
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Postby Ambar » Sat Oct 05, 2002 1:20 pm

i personally think it is 100% easier to level an evil to 25 than a goodie after that ... about equal... there is so much unexplored territory to do exp in .. where do you think we xp's before the ship was in (if you remember that than you deserve to post:P)

part of the higher xp tables on sojourn is LEARNING your character ... use your odd spells or whatever while xp'ing ... cause zoning is so much different ... you need the time to learn the group experience as a whole ... how different characters interreact with others...

i personally wouldnt want to zone with people who didnt know their character ... or who had made lvl 50 in a very few days (unless you are oldschool and just know the mud that well .. you know who you are)

think about the warrior who hit 50 in 5 pdays ... how is his bash skill?? his rescue??

or the mage who did it in 5 days ... how is his qc???

imho zoning level is 40+ ... some feel 46+ ...

anyway i never will learn to keep my opinion out will i :P

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Postby Gerad » Sat Oct 05, 2002 7:00 pm

4.0 A guest of the castle

Buwahahahaha! Image

Gerad

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Postby moritheil » Sat Oct 05, 2002 7:21 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by kragt:
<B>I am playing and evil race which may be contributing a great deal to my impatience with xp hunting. I am not sure if the situation is the same on the good race side. I have about 2 days playing time on my character now, and most of that has been spent doing laps around DK. One of the reasons for this I suspect is most of the lower level evils are alts. They have no need to go zoning for the low level gear, and don't want to go exploring, especially with their lower level character. As a note to all the evils, it wouldn't kill ya to leave DK once in a while, and if you ever have the urge to do so just look me up.

I would love to go exploring and die in strange and mysterious ways, I just prefer not to do it alone. A spank is always more fun when you have a whole group full of people to cr instead of just yourself.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK. let me try to clear up a few misconceptions:

1. Yes, you do suffer as an ebil, if you don't know anyone and start from scratch, vs. as a goodie. This is because the pbase is smaller.

2. Lowlevels DO NOT GO ZONING. I'm sorry. If you can't even enter a portal (sub 20) then you really can't, for the most part, zone. Midlevels go zoning. Yes, exp sucks, but that's the point. You have to put in something. Psychologically, Soj wouldn't be addictive if it didn't involve this sort of tradeoff. Don't get me wrong, we want a good pbase, but we also want a stable pbase, and as a practical matter, that means addicting people.

3. It sounds to me like you want free fun, with minimal effort and no risk. I'm afraid that the game is simply not designed that way. Either you go it alone, and risk dying somewhere obscure and not retrieving your corpse, OR, you put up with the aggravation of getting people who will go with you.

4. Two pdays is nothing Image Believe me, I remember when it seemed that a few hours was an incredible loss, but Sojourn is radically unlike those cheeze-through games where, a la FF, you level up for an hour till you get your first 'trick' and then blow through the opposition.

5. That being said, feel free to drop me a tell ingame, and if I'm not busy trying to frantically save my group from dragons or some such, I'll be happy to help Image

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kiryan
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Postby kiryan » Sat Oct 05, 2002 11:18 pm

level doesnt matter as much as knowledge and skills. a level 40 warrior who knows how to bash and rescue will make a group run considerably smoother than a level 50 warrior who doesnt or is afk.

getting to level 50 faster will allow you to start learning the intricasies of zone, but are you willing to pay the price?

Being laughed at and shunned even more than a regular newbie who bothered to learn basic things through trial and error deaths crs asking dumb questions when he was low level... right or wrong thats Soj and it could take longer to fix a reputation/perception than to level a char to 50.

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Daz
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Postby Daz » Sat Oct 05, 2002 11:20 pm

Yeah, its a shame that 40 warrior won't get the invites though.

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Postby kiryan » Sun Oct 06, 2002 9:50 am

shrug

are you sure its a level problem and not a personality and reputation one?

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Corth
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Postby Corth » Sun Oct 06, 2002 10:07 am

If doing experience actually meant that you were learning something about your character I would be all for it. The sad fact is that you get nothing out of it. You learn how to repeat the same mindless actions repeatedly for dozens of hours until your high enough level to goto a zone and really play the game. That being the case, I'm in favor of reducing the exp needed to level, or alternatively, providing an exp boost to mobs in difficult areas, such as the jot grid, where something is actually learned...

Corth

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Eza
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Postby Eza » Sun Oct 06, 2002 10:42 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by moritheil:
I'll be happy to take you to die in zones sometime kragt. Look me up.

</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

He wants to reduce the difficulty of exp, not reduce the amount he already has. :P

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[This message has been edited by Eza (edited 10-06-2002).]
kragt
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Postby kragt » Sun Oct 06, 2002 11:11 am

xisi: I've had a lot of fun in the groups with you and others that have actually left dk. I'm now starting to spend the bulk of my time away from the city discovering the fun new zones that were added since I played last.

Ambar: It depends on who was doing the exp and what level they were. If ya had a group then it was the sickly mage and watchers in bloodstone. Solo the necros liked the guests in IC and the trolls liked the priests in bs. I was not proposing a drastic reduction in xp, just something along the lines of 10-25%. It adds up to a few less days of playing time I gotta spend smackin stuff up repeatedly.

Mori: Low levels do go zoning, or at least they should. The rewards aren't as good but there are some fun quests and zones you can do starting about level 20. I'm not lookin for free fun or Insta-God status, I guess I'm just gettin a bit impatient in my old age and I've done this too many times before. I have been exploring either alone or with about half the people I would like to have. Btw death count today = 5, but that invasion was a ball.

I have to agree with Corth on that last point. Exp hunting teaches virtually nothing about your class. All you gain from it is money, experience and skill practice. If you want to learn about your class you need to go exploring and put it to the test.
I would love to see a change in the system that rewarded people for pushing themselves while they level up. Because frankly if you aren't at risk of dying, it just isn't fun.

All that being said I made the original post after doing abot 5 hours straight of dk experience, and was a little fed up with the whole process. I've compared my playing time of this character with the original Kragt on toril. Kragt #1 was level 32 with about 18 Days playing time. Kragt #2 is 25 with about 3 days time. It is going faster than it used to in the old days, and will probably keep going faster as long as I can kick my nasty death habit.


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Ambar
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Postby Ambar » Sun Oct 06, 2002 11:30 am

i still would rather have the lvl 40 warrior who worked for it (ie higher bash/rescue skills) than the plevelled warrior who hasnt had the chance to practice recuse or bash yet
my baby warrior is only like lvl 32 but bash is at 65 ... and workin on rescue ... it's only 55 or so?

ok 10% decrease is ok in my book but anything more?? veto!

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Sarell
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Postby Sarell » Sun Oct 06, 2002 2:08 pm

I'd agree to a tiny teeny decrease if you take ship, DK, LH elites out of game :P

Maybe adjust the trophy to be a lot harsher? since it pretty much means nothing atm.

Exps holes are pooey...

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moritheil
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Postby moritheil » Sun Oct 06, 2002 2:10 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by kragt:
<B>Mori: Low levels do go zoning, or at least they should. The rewards aren't as good but there are some fun quests and zones you can do starting about level 20.

I have to agree with Corth on that last point. Exp hunting teaches virtually nothing about your class.

I would love to see a change in the system that rewarded people for pushing themselves while they level up. Because frankly if you aren't at risk of dying, it just isn't fun.

It is going faster than it used to in the old days, and will probably keep going faster as long as I can kick my nasty death habit.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

1. I said u gotta be 20 first, same as you did. I haven't found any of these mysterious worthwhile lowbie quests, so I'll defer to your superior knowledge. But then, if you DO know them, and they ARE fun, you can run them, which negates the entire point of your post Image

2. I've seen people learn things during xp. Especially noobs on ship, ppl in HP dying to thieves, etc. It teaches jack about your class maybe, but you do learn about zones, repop time, the folly of pissing off tracking mobs...

3. Two words: Jot xp. But you have to be 20 to enter the portal, just like I said. Or you could be like Knetzar and do UD for agro xp.

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Postby Donuktanam » Sun Oct 06, 2002 4:52 pm

kragt ask Xisi next time you see him on,he totally loves doing zones like talenrock and duergar settlment king, Image
in fact we keep going again and again!!He's obsessed i tell ya!*wink*


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Postby Daz » Sun Oct 06, 2002 6:05 pm

To say that you learn 'nothing' about your character during XP is a little harsh I think. An enchanter learns to keep the tank stoned. A cleric learns to glance heal. A warrior learns to rescue. Perhaps it is true that during XP many of the support classes just assist and cast whatever is at the top of their memlist.

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Postby Ashiwi » Sun Oct 06, 2002 6:12 pm

I can almost always tell the difference between a longterm char and a pleveled char in their skill levels and how they know their class. That doesn't count for much when it comes to players like Corth, because they know they game in and out from every angle, but with most the differences are painfully obvious.
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Postby Corth » Sun Oct 06, 2002 6:32 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ashiwi:
I can almost always tell the difference between a longterm char and a pleveled char in their skill levels and how they know their class. </font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly. Its been demonstrated time and time again that you can get to level 50 on this mud and not know jack. The only way to learn anything is to explore a lot, and spend time in zones. It would do a lot of good for the mud, imho, if people were doing their 'powerleveling' on the jot grid rather than on the ship or the smoke plane. Give jot grid an exp boost and you'd see a major improvement in skill over time.

Corth

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[This message has been edited by Corth (edited 10-06-2002).]
kiryan
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Postby kiryan » Sun Oct 06, 2002 7:22 pm

level 41 shaman in 4 play days (and i wasted plenty of time too). should exp get easier?

part of this game is learning how to get around, where to pick up potions scrolls food, how to do exp, how to make groups / get into groups, being in awe of some alt's eq. its not just about zones.

ive always liked the idea of giving more exp for riskier situations, but its not the newbies that are gonna get to do that exp so what exactly would be the point? prime exp tends to be kept secret and the exclusive hunting grounds of hardcore/elite players. a few newbies might be compelled to try the riskier exp... 1 out of 100 might succeed. mostlikely they will probably get owned by their newbie skills and their newbie eq. Better more difficult exp areas only gonna be alt fodder, lets be realistic.

same goes for the zone exp suggestions, its not newbies that are gonna get invited to zones for exp, its alts of people who know what they are doing.

suggestion

you want to do something for newbies? get them into groups where they can learn something?

ELIMINATE THE GROUP EXP PENALTY!!!
(or add a significant exp penalty for your 1-3 man exp groups)

now i know its not technically coded a penalty but the reality is that you don't want anything but core in your exp group (tank healer stoner, maybe a damage). 10 man exp is shit no matter how fast you are killing compared to what you can do 2 man or 3 man. The existing bonuses you get for having more members in your group does next to nothing to offset the exp lost by splitting the exp with additional memers. especially for your classes that do not get damage exp... cleric, enchanter, bard, poor shaman ordered to stone and heal.

The group exp penalty is the #1 reason newbies get assed out of exp groups. The #2 reason being they have no idea how to get to the various exp locations, and the #3 reason being folks wanting to be low key / exclusive with their friends / not dealing with the newbie questions.

Lets work on getting newbies into situations where they can learn? What better way to learn but from those that are alread wise?

Players are short sighted and are gonna do whats best for them in the short run, we're not gonna start inviting newbies to exp if there is nothing to gain (let alone something to lose). make us want to include more people? this is a group oriented mud isn't it? your going to have to stick this one down our throats please.

can you imagine what a powerful impact there would be if people, especially newbies, didnt have to beg for exp groups? If they felt needed because people actually sent them tells inviting them to do something?

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[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 10-06-2002).]
Corth
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Postby Corth » Sun Oct 06, 2002 7:55 pm

getting rid of (or reducing) the group exp penalty would mean that you could do exp a lot quicker because of the added people. This would be essentially the same as lowering exp needed. Sounds like a roundabout way of accomplishing the same thing but that doesn't matter much since the effect would be beneficial nonetheless.


Also, I dont see how the jot grid is purely a venue for 'elite' players. You might want to explain that some more...

Corth

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[This message has been edited by Corth (edited 10-06-2002).]
Daz
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Postby Daz » Sun Oct 06, 2002 8:02 pm

most new players are not aware of, much less able to navigate their way to jot. just the trip there is considered dangerous to new people. jot xp is NOT for new, or unexperienced players.

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Postby Zoldren » Sun Oct 06, 2002 8:44 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Daz:
<B>most new players are not aware of, much less able to navigate their way to jot. just the trip there is considered dangerous to new people. jot xp is NOT for new, or unexperienced players.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I take new and unexperience players to jot all the time....... its a great place actualy probably the best place for them to learn how to listen to leader, learn what to do/not to. what to observe... see how things work...

i agree w/corth....

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Postby Ashiwi » Sun Oct 06, 2002 8:54 pm

I'd be all for raising experience tables and adding in a hefty bonus for grouping. I solo all my alts at low levels, because I just get more exp that way. Grouping at low levels with a little enchanter is just painful.
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Postby [armaNaraen] » Sun Oct 06, 2002 9:22 pm

funny... out of a few characters ive never been invited to JOT or anything else.. even after begging.. "no, you dont wanna come" yeah, i did.

ive always had to organize a group.
i dont even know what jot really is. im new, and really, i learned all alone. through mistakes. at the beginning i got his onrush of help, people lacing eq all over me, but that was about all the help i really got. there are a few Elders out there that i can rely on for info if i need it, but i feel like im bothering them. so i know i know my character, i feel comf leading around mobs i know.. 4 days = 41?! what the hell.. how about 4 days just to keep 21!!!! mahn..

nuff said.. and i am one of those longterm peoples. who only really learns about other players, not the game.

bung!

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[This message has been edited by [armaNaraen] (edited 10-06-2002).]
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Postby Azenilsee » Mon Oct 07, 2002 4:18 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by [armaNaraen]:
<B> so i know i know my character, i feel comf leading around mobs i know.. 4 days = 41?! what the hell.. how about 4 days just to keep 21!!!! mahn..
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Once you know the xp spots and when to go there, levelling up can be quick and painless. Don't worry arma, I hit level 50 in 53 days playing time. If you think about it, that's 159 days playing 8 hours everyday. There's a lot of stuff to be done during all those times, exp is just one of them. It's the journey to reach 50 is what counts. Image



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Sarell
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Postby Sarell » Mon Oct 07, 2002 4:22 am

I think we agree that atm jot isn't a place for true newbies then? so the point most are making is that it should be worthwhile to go to a mid level zone like jot grid to exp in... ATM constant killin of high mobs on ship is unbeatable generally.

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Postby fildur » Mon Oct 07, 2002 8:07 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by [armaNaraen]:
<B>know.. 4 days = 41?! what the hell.. how about 4 days just to keep 21!!!! mahn..

nuff said.. and i am one of those longterm peoples. who only really learns about other players, not the game.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

anyways, as a n00b 4 days to 21 is fast. at least faster than it used to be on older incarnations of soj. my first char got lev 16 in 7 days as i recall, strange thing was that places like podville and gobcaves were crowded those days, and ppl didnt get powerlevels at the same rate as they do now, well, well, pbase i dont know exact, but there were allways 150 ppl online, and 300+ at peaks. im not so sure if easier exp gets a bigger pbase..../fil

[This message has been edited by fildur (edited 10-07-2002).]

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