Tip the man!

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Gerad
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Tip the man!

Postby Gerad » Sun Nov 17, 2002 8:00 am

Vent Warning!

I recently got a job deliver pizzas. Let me let you in on a few facts that most people are not aware of.

First and foremost, ONE DOLLAR is NOT an acceptable tip for a driver! I make 5.15 an hour and .80 cents a deliver (the .80 almost exactly covers my gas). The tips put food in my mouth and my check at 5.15 bearly covers the rent.

If your pizza is late: The delivery person has VERY little or .nothing. to do with it. If you want to complain about it being late, call the store, but dont take it out on the driver or not tip because of it. We drive as fast as is possible without getting pulled over. More than likely, we are swamped with orders and just cant get them all out, or the people inside are being slow. Usually its just lack of having enough drivers.

Next: Sending your five year old to the door with a check for the exact ammount is an act of extreme cowardice!!!

When your ordering with your friends, walking off without tipping is not nice! I cannot even count the number of times they have just all walked off without tipping because they all assumed someone else would.

Dont have the money to tip? PICK IT UP! Shit, if you dont have two bucks for the driver, you should probably not be ordering pizza anyway!

So next time the pizza guy is standing at your door, think about the fact that his life is dependant upon how generous you are! Two bucks or more I find acceptable. Even just a dollar is something. Not tipping? I havent started this practice yet, but some of the guys at my store remember houses. If you dont tip them, the next time they have a three or four run, yours is probably coming last :P

Tip the man!

Now, what do the waiters/waitresses/bartenders/other drivers think?

-Gerad deliveringwolf



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Urbuk
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Postby Urbuk » Sun Nov 17, 2002 8:16 am

Emm..we don't tip where I come from.
It leads to nationwide bribery Image
Ragorn
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Postby Ragorn » Sun Nov 17, 2002 9:28 am

I tip one dollar, maybe $1.50. I appreciate you driving out and delivering me my $10 pizza, but if you're making minimum wage, you're pulling in almost $3/hr more than a waitress. Waitresses here make $2.35 an hour, the legal minimum for any job with a tip income.

If the guys inside are slow, it's not your fault... but if the cooks are slow it isn't the waitress's fault either, and her tips suffer for it. I take shit all day at work from people for things I have no control over. It's part of my job, and it's part of working on the front line when you deal with customers in ANY job.

Another perspective: I work tech support and make $8.50 an hour. I'm underpaid, yes, because I live in a bumfuck area. If you make two deliveries in an hour and get a buck each time, that's 2x.80 + 2x1.00 + 5.15 or $8.75 an hour. If a pizza guy delivers two pizzas in an hour here, he makes more than I do working a 40 hour desk job. So maybe it's just me working my shitty little job in Blacksburg, VA, but I feel no sympathy for a pizza delivery guy that gets to wear jeans to work, listen to the stereo all night in his car, and still makes more money than I do. Gas and wear on the car I understand, but it's a slow night when you only deliver 2 pizzas in an hour, no?

I'm with you on the 5 year old and the group ordering though. That's just plain lame. The only time I won't tip at all is if the pizza takes more than 30 minutes beyond what I was told on the phone. It's not your fault, but it's not MY fault the pizza was an hour late either Image

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Postby Pheten » Sun Nov 17, 2002 10:26 am

This is a touchy subject with me also. The thing you need to remember is those people you are delivering to worked their ass off to make the money they are paying out.
Just because I decide I want to spoil myself once a month and have a pizza brought to my house doesnt mean I should be responsible for paying the driver to bring it there.
Call me strange but at my job I get paid to work with ALOT of people and do some pretty darned difficult stuff for them (loading 400-600 pound drums of oil, antifreeze, racing fuel into pickups and such every day, not once have I ever expected or gotten a tip.
This may sound like I'm coming off as a ass but man these days I think alot of us are tightening our belts more than we used to, and being told how to spend my money just rubs me the wrong way.

-phet

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Postby Jegzed » Sun Nov 17, 2002 11:50 am

Tipping people sounds like some sort of socialist thing where people can't survive on their salaries.



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Sarvis
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Postby Sarvis » Sun Nov 17, 2002 1:21 pm

I delivered pizza in a bad neighborhood for a few months. Eventually I realized could count on _not_ getting a tip if I delivered to a house. OK, so the people were poor... so what? In my worst college days, with no money to even buy food regularly I'd still either tip or not buy pizza.

But what really got to me was when I delivered to a business once, $80 dollars worth of pizza that I needed two trips to carry in... and the guy in a nice business suit didn't tip me.

Anyways, short upside is that it turned out to be better for me to work an $8/hr job than a 5.15 + tip job. Unfortunately I hated the 8/hr job...

Ragorn: You're math fails to account for the fact that a good portion of people don't tip... *peer Pheten*

Pheten: If you're tightening your belt then either go for the pizza yourself or don't order it. Either way will end up giving the belt more room to tighten. Image


Edit: Ragorn:

Oh yeah, and not all pizza drivers get 5.15/hr. A friend of mine was getting the legal minimum... though, everyone I know who gets less than 5.15 works in an area where people tip well and end up making substantially more money.

Jegezed: So what do Europeans do when people are nice enough to drive food to your house? Punch the driver in the face?
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[This message has been edited by Sarvis (edited 11-17-2002).]
Jegzed
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Postby Jegzed » Sun Nov 17, 2002 1:40 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Sarvis:
Jegezed: So what do Europeans do when people are nice enough to drive food to your house? Punch the driver in the face?</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats what they are paid for? ie, its their job.


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Musi
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Postby Musi » Sun Nov 17, 2002 2:37 pm

We don't even get pizza delivery where we live! We're SO far out in the country, no one will deliver (not even Chinese food!) but we're close enough that:
1. We have digital cable & modem service
2. 1.3 miles to the interstate
3. 5 minutes and we're downtown

Image

A particularly close pizza place (rhymes with Feetsa Butt) told us that they have to be able to go from one side of town to the other side of town in 30 min or less, which we could understand. We also told them about a road that runs up and takes about 2.5 minutes from their store to our house, and they said they won't deliver to us, but the people down the street get delivery Image

Anyways, when I used to live where places DID deliver, I'd always give $2 + change. Ex. Pizza place X delivers a cheese pizza and sticks of cinammon to my apt = $17.35. I'd hand him a $20 and say keep the change as he's fumbling to make it. I don't have to worry about my pizza getting cold and he doesn't have to come up with change. OR if my order came out to be $10.15, I'd hand him $15 and say that I just wanted $2 back.

Oh, how I DO miss delivery! Image


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Corth
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Postby Corth » Sun Nov 17, 2002 3:14 pm

I delivered pizzas for a year. I agree that if your going to order a pizza, you tip. Thats part of the deal. Otherwise, like the man said, pick up your own damn pizza. The salary you earn delivering pizzas hardly covers the cost of gas + depreciation on your car. I disagree though that $1 is always insufficient. The tip should reflect the quality of service (speed) and to a lesser extent the cost of the food being delivered. Remember, it makes little difference to the delivery driver if hes delivering 5 pizzas or 1.. its still a trip to your house.

Corth

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Postby Jegzed » Sun Nov 17, 2002 3:16 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Corth:
<B>I delivered pizzas for a year. I agree that if your going to order a pizza, you tip. Thats part of the deal. Otherwise, like the man said, pick up your own damn pizza. The salary you earn delivering pizzas hardly covers the cost of gas + depreciation on your car.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, it works differently around here then I guess. Tipping is supposed to be included in the delivery-prize.



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Corth
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Postby Corth » Sun Nov 17, 2002 3:38 pm

nods Jeg, its just a cultural thing as far as i can tell. Instead of paying a set $2 or so extra for every delivery, be it quick or slow, they have discretion to pay based upon the quality of the service. It works well most of the time.. the big tippers make up for the cheap pocks.

Corth

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Zanvazez
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Postby Zanvazez » Sun Nov 17, 2002 3:48 pm

i have a question then:
you live 5 km away (a little over 3 miles), you don't have a car. you want a 10$ pizza but don't feel like taking the 35 minutes or so walk there and back and you don't feel like taking the bus. you want to order a 10$ pizza (7$ American). what's the tip on that?
is it suposed to be approximately 15%?

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cherzra
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Postby cherzra » Sun Nov 17, 2002 4:00 pm

Tipping is the stupidest thing. Mr. pink in Reservoir Dogs said it perfectly, and I'm not going to repeat it all.

I'll say a few things though.

1. If you need the tips to actually make some money because your wages suck, the system in your country is screwed.

2. Jobs where you 'are expected' to get a tip are usually not very hard (taxi, delivering, ...) with the possible exception of waiting tables. I've done assembly line work, worked in slaughterhouses and nobody ever gave me a damn tip there and I broke my back just as hard as everyone. I'll tell you, delivering pizzas is cake compared to dragging carcasses. Why tip those jobs and not others?

3. Everytime I've been to the states, they treat you like shit if you don't tip or don't tip enough. Also, where do they get the nerve from to even mention "15% service charge is not included in prices" on the menu cards? They FORCE you to tip.


Tipping is stupid.
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Postby Iktar » Sun Nov 17, 2002 4:17 pm

all i gotta say is, idea of tipping is very american thing..

personally, at times idea of american tipping is good. when waiter gives u shitt service or attitude.
at other times, tipping being included is nice too.

i think most sensible people know when things r out of driver or waiter/waitress' hand and still tip accordingly.
but then...again ;P
people r u know...dumb
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Postby Kifle » Sun Nov 17, 2002 4:44 pm

Cherz, what you fail to realize is that in these 40hr a week jobs you usually have health insurance and a pack of other benefits. When you are a driver/waitress you have none of this. So while your 40 hr a week job lets you go to the doctor for 10 dollars and get a scrip for 5 dollars, the waitress/driver is paying 80-120 for the damn visit and another 70 for the scrip. And if you think this is off the mark, i was there for a while. They dont get paid vacations. They dont have set days off every week. If their boss calls and asks them to come in (which happend to me about 1-2 times a week) they have to or get put in the managers little black book of people to fire soon. In a 40hr a week job, yes you sometimes have manditory overtime but not always. How many of you would rather work by yourself than talk to people all day long and put up with waiting on them hand and foot? "Uh ma'am, I dropped my fork for the 5th time, can i get another one?", "Uh ma'am I didn't ask for sauce on this pasta!" WTF doesnt sauce usually come on pasta in most places? Who in their right minds wants to put up with this crap?! Not me.

Face it, you all who don't agree with tipping are just cheap bastards trying to justify, and horribly i might add, being mean to somebody else.

Also think of this. When i was a driver i would put 100+ miles on my car a week and i live in a rather small town. Now add that $.80 into the price of gas now what is the driver making...now put about %20 of those wages into tuneups, repairs, tires etc for the car. Now what is this driver making? Now figure in what type of risk this person is taking to bring you a damn pizza when there is 13" of snow on the fucking ground, or the roads have iced over, or it is raining or foggy with 10% visibility.

anyway...

One time i worked at East of Chicago and this ass wrote me a check, i got into my car and it was for 15 cents under the price of the stuff! I got a negative tip for being there 15 minutes before the time they told him at the store! I was pissed but they looked really damn poor so i didnt go back to the door. IMO these people should be buying mac and cheese to feed their themselves and their kids and maybe save up some money.

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Postby Yasden » Sun Nov 17, 2002 4:49 pm

I literally live across the street from a Domino's Pizza. I never go and pick it up. Sure, it's 5 minutes to walk into the shopping center over there...but why? I work 10-12 hour days and I don't feel like moving once I get home. And hell yes, I tip my driver 2 or 3 bucks every time. It's usually the same guy. They tell me 30-45 minutes...he's there with my pizza in 15, so hot the cheese burns the roof of your mouth and leaves skin hanging for a week.

Tipping isn't necessary, but it is a gesture of appreciation. I was a cook/delivery person for a local pizza joint where I grew up when I was 16. I didn't have to make deliveries much, only when drivers were sick (had to be 18 to do it, so it was a rarity when I did). But when I'd have to make a 20 minute drive outside of town (sucks Musi, your Pizza Hut = LAME) to deliver a pizza, BAM 10 dollar tip instantly from the people. They ordered pizza literally every other day.

Waitresses get the shaft though, I agree Rags. I always tip my waitress 20-30%, unless she is directly responsible for slow service (drink refills, condiments, oops I forgot your salad for the 3rd time), and even then I still give them a couple bucks at least.

If you're too lazy to cook and don't want to tip people, go to an all-you-can-eat-buffet. :P They get paid to clean up the mess.

That's all for now!

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Postby Jenera » Sun Nov 17, 2002 4:59 pm

I have gotten into the habit of tipping. I've worked as a waitress, delivering pizzas (by bicycle, was a service that this small pizzeria did for people who lived in the area so the drivers could go to places farther away), as a room service person in a hotel and I know how it feels to make 4 dollars an hour and expect to live on tips.

I've been in Korea for almost two months and tipping doesn't exist here. Not for food delivery, not for cabs, or hotels. They get paid below American minimum wage and food is cheaper here too. Supermarkets even have delivery service, no tipping. People look at me funny that, when even though it is not required, I always slip the delivery guy or cab driver an extra bit of money. I order about 8000 won (about 6.50 or so USD) of food from a restaurant that delivers and I always give them an extra 2000 or 3000 won (1.80 to 2.50 about) and they try to give it back to me. My aunt has gotten used to explaining to them that I am here from the states and that tipping is a custom. Image

My brother works in an expensive korean restaurant in New Jersey where it costs at least 100 dollars a place setting doing valet parking. He runs around ragged all day, parking peoples' cars, getting cursed at for taking a minute longer than a customer wanted to wait. This parking lot is 6 floors, huge, no elevators and he doesn't get tipped very much. He makes 3 dollars an hour.

Considering the above, I always tip and if I can't tip, I don't order out. Image

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Postby Pheten » Sun Nov 17, 2002 5:43 pm

In no way at all do I think tipping is a bad idea if the person who is getting the service wants to tip. But ill be DAMNED if anyone should tell me I am required to tip, or an asshole for ONLY tipping one dollar, just because they did their job and got to my place on time. Like Cherzra said alot of us work our asses off, literally work our hands to the bone to get our money.

I'm sorry people dont get benefits deliviring pizza, I'm sorry their wages suck and they cant make rent, but guess what alot of people deal with this. If a company wants to charge me three times the amount for a service fine i'll pay it. I've even been to places that include the tip on the bill as a percent, and that's fine with me also. But if it's not on that bill guess what, it's the customers choice, not yours.
-pheten

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Postby Sarkhon » Sun Nov 17, 2002 5:54 pm

hrmmm interesting topic, as i am really mixed on my opinion toward tipping. i'll lay out my opinion as to three distinct professions :

1. delivery boys: i have no problem *ever* tipping them. ordinarily i'll tip $1 + the remaining change toward the second dollar (mostly because i like getting bills in return, as i have enough change in my apt to know what to do with).

2: waiters: i go out to eat quite a bit, and i'll ordinarily tip pretty well (20%ish), with the slight exception of dealing with someone who directly rubs me the wrong way (one recent waitress practically snarled at me when i put down my credit card instead of paying cash, and was an utter bitch to my girlfriend throughout the entire meal -- sadly, this is something this waitress is known for -- still, she got something to the effect of a 5% tip, and quite frankly, deserved a hell of a lot less.

3. Bartenders - now here is my *big* problem. Before moving to the midwest i lived my whole life in NY, and never had a problem tipping bartenders after each drink -- namely, because they'd recognize the fact that you tipped them more than once, and would buy you back a couple drinks later in the night.

I'm living in the midwest for now, and in three years of smacking down $1 on nearly every drink, i've *NEVER* been bought back a single round. I'm a pretty big beer drinker when I go out, and frankly i'm sick of tipping these buffoons who take three seconds to fill my glass yet don't ever show a sign of appreciation or acknowledgment.

Thus, my current policy is that unless it's a busy night where they serve me quickly, they ain't getting shit, unless they do something other than their usual routine. As you can see from my other tipping habits, I'm far from cheap, but the bartending thing w/o payback has really struck a raw nerve in me.

I'd be interested in hearing what pepole who have worked as bartenders might have to say on this ...
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Postby Corth » Sun Nov 17, 2002 6:04 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by cherzra:
<B>Tipping is the stupidest thing. Mr. pink in Reservoir Dogs said it perfectly, and I'm not going to repeat it all.

I'll say a few things though.

1. If you need the tips to actually make some money because your wages suck, the system in your country is screwed. </B> </font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats the problem with socialists. They cant conceive of a free market and assume that there is always some sort of 'system' implemented upon the people. Unfortunately, reality intervenes. When all is said and done people are paid what they are worth. If they are worth more than what they are being paid, they find something else to do. A 'system' that changes this in any way rewards and penalizes people who do not deserve it.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">2. Jobs where you 'are expected' to get a tip are usually not very hard (taxi, delivering, ...) with the possible exception of waiting tables. I've done assembly line work, worked in slaughterhouses and nobody ever gave me a damn tip there and I broke my back just as hard as everyone. I'll tell you, delivering pizzas is cake compared to dragging carcasses. Why tip those jobs and not others? </font>


Why tip pizza delivery drivers and taxi drivers as opposed to slaughterhouse workers? When was the last time a slaughterhouse worker showed up at my door and provided a service for me? If I am paying for a service.. being driven across town or having something delivered to me, or having a carpet installed in my house, then I should pay for this service. If I didnt have an option to pay less for shitty service then guess what... I would ALWAYS get shitty service. A 'system' of tipping for personal services makes the people who do those services try and do a good job. It makes delivery drivers work faster, carpet installers cut the carpet more accurately, etc etc. I hope this explains it for you.

<B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
3. Everytime I've been to the states, they treat you like shit if you don't tip or don't tip enough. Also, where do they get the nerve from to even mention "15% service charge is not included in prices" on the menu cards? They FORCE you to tip. </B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ever hear the expression "When in rome, do as the romans"? Yes you are expected to tip. That is because your waiter is making about one third the amount of salary as the same waiter in europe. And before you start whining about how this is a crappy system, you should understand that your european waiter's salary is subsidized by more expensive food on the menu. By contrast, in America the menu will be cheaper to reflect the savings in cost to the employer. The reason people get pissed at you when you don't tip is you are being rude by american standards by not paying for a service rendered to you. You are not being asked to pay extra, your being asked to pay for what you receive, albeit in a different way than you are accustomed to.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Tipping is stupid.</font>


People that believe their culture is superior to that of everyone else are stupid.

Corth

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[This message has been edited by Corth (edited 11-17-2002).]
cherzra
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Postby cherzra » Sun Nov 17, 2002 6:09 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Corth:
<B> People that believe their culture is superior to that of everyone else are stupid.

Corth

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And that out of the mouth of an American...


[This message has been edited by cherzra (edited 11-17-2002).]
Corth
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Postby Corth » Sun Nov 17, 2002 6:11 pm

Cherzra,

Did some american traumitize you really badly when you were a kid? If so, I apologize for all americans. It must have been something truly horrible to make you hate us so much. Image

Corth

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cherzra
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Postby cherzra » Sun Nov 17, 2002 6:14 pm

You are the wiseguy who brought nationalities and countries into this when the topic was a simple discussion about tipping. Somehow you must feel your patriotism is questioned when I say that tipping is stupid - but so be it, you can have your way.
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Postby Corth » Sun Nov 17, 2002 6:18 pm

No Cherzra, I did not bring nationalities into the conversation. I said that it is stupid for people to believe that their own culture is superior to everyone else's. You said that it was funny to hear an american say that. I.E., you brought nationalities into it.



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Postby Dalar » Sun Nov 17, 2002 6:19 pm

ROFL. I find it funny that Kia posted "you guys will argue about anything"

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Postby Lenefir » Sun Nov 17, 2002 6:29 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Kifle:
Cherz, what you fail to realize is that in these 40hr a week jobs you usually have health insurance and a pack of other benefits. When you are a driver/waitress you have none of this. [...] They dont get paid vacations. They dont have set days off every week. If their boss calls and asks them to come in (which happend to me about 1-2 times a week) they have to or get put in the managers little black book of people to fire soon. </font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Uhm... This might differ from country to country, and what laws you have to protect you in and at work and against being fired without plausible reason... And public healtcare in many European contries is paid for by the goverment from the taxes you pay. It might not always be effective, but at least you don't get thrown out of you don't have insurance and no money. Visit to the local physician is not free, but heavily sponsored though.

<B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Face it, you all who don't agree with tipping are just cheap bastards trying to justify, and horribly i might add, being mean to somebody else.

Also think of this. When i was a driver i would put 100+ miles on my car a week and i live in a rather small town. Now add that $.80 into the price of gas now what is the driver making...now put about %20 of those wages into tuneups, repairs, tires etc for the car. Now what is this driver making? Now figure in what type of risk this person is taking to bring you a damn pizza when there is 13" of snow on the fucking ground, or the roads have iced over, or it is raining or foggy with 10% visibility.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Again this might differ. Where I live (at least for the moment), it is the companies that supplies the car (with heavy company adds on it of course). I have no idea what they pay their drivers, but given that you have to pay additional money to get it delivered (and not fetching it yourself) in combination with higher prizes than I've seen in the US, I assume they get a decent payment. And given that the legal minimum vages for someone above 18 is around $10 or something, I certainly hope so. That said, everything else is more expensive around here... (And for the record, I do tip, but it all depends on how the quality of service was, what the prize was in the first place, and how much (extra) coins I happen to have on me.)

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Postby Daz » Sun Nov 17, 2002 6:34 pm

Heh, well - I would prefer a system where the waiters/waitresses earn extra money based on a percentage of what they sell. If I am not mistaken, I believe they do this in some parts of Europe, no? This also gives the server a chance to sell the products, which provides experience for much better positions later down the road.

Still, I make sure the delivery person gets at least a few dollars for knocking on my door.
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Postby Musi » Sun Nov 17, 2002 7:18 pm

There's a restraunt that James and I sometimes go to. One night, the waitress was practically begging us to buy a dessert (we were already full to the gills) and we asked why she was really pushing it (she's wasn't mean or in our faces, but just kept hinting) and she said they were having a contest on who could sell the most desserts that month, and the winner got a lot of nice stuff to go back to college with, so we bought something and forced ourselves to eat it. (me? being forced to eat chocolate Image )

I guess a lot of the people that work there also go to college and their boss gave the winner a new laptop, pda, and money for tuition. Sorry, just had to share. (btw, we gave her a tip too Image )

It's not like we're made of money. I haven't had a steady job in almost 2 years! (thanks economy) And James makes almost no money at his job. But we tend to go to certain restraunts, and it's nice to be recognized and treated well, so we tip. It's not as much as my dad does (like $5 a person), but it's something. I worked fast food years ago and IT SUCKED!! So I definitely do appreciate the people that put in long hours, for crappy pay and no benefits, so that I can have a quick meal that I don't have to prepare or clean up.


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Postby Ragorn » Sun Nov 17, 2002 8:27 pm

Well, the American tipping system is a little archaic, yes. Some jobs are just expected to get tips and others just aren't. And not everybody even knows it's appropriate to tip a delivery guy. Some people assume they make enough salary to cover their costs.

But let's be realistic for a second here.

You can't expect to make big money in the food industry, delivery or no delivery. If you're paying rent and bills off a delivery salary, you're going to be cutting it close. Be honest here, pizza delivery requires no special skill or ability other than the capacity to drive a car. The tips you get are for the convenience of not having to pick up the pizza. When I tip a waitress, I tip her for refilling my drink, bringing me food, putting in special requests, offering me specials, and essentially taking care of me for the 45 minutes I'm in the restaurant. To me, that's worth 15-20% of the bill. To demand I pay out the same amount for someone to simply bring me the food is unreasonable.

Pizza delivery guys don't get benefits like medical insurance. That's an aspect of the job I have no control over, and I'm not going to tip higher because the delivery guy gets a bum deal. There are things about my job that are unfair too, but nobody cuts me a little extra check because of it.

Bitching about people who don't tip at all or people who are assholes I sympathize with. That sucks, and everybody should realize that delivery IS a tipping situation. But it's a job, with perks and shortcomings like any other job.

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Postby Kifle » Sun Nov 17, 2002 8:30 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Lenefir:
<B>
Originally posted by Kifle:
Cherz, what you fail to realize is that in these 40hr a week jobs you usually have health insurance and a pack of other benefits. When you are a driver/waitress you have none of this. [...] They dont get paid vacations. They dont have set days off every week. If their boss calls and asks them to come in (which happend to me about 1-2 times a week) they have to or get put in the managers little black book of people to fire soon. </B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Uhm... This might differ from country to country, and what laws you have to protect you in and at work and against being fired without plausible reason... And public healtcare in many European contries is paid for by the goverment from the taxes you pay. It might not always be effective, but at least you don't get thrown out of you don't have insurance and no money. Visit to the local physician is not free, but heavily sponsored though.

<B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Face it, you all who don't agree with tipping are just cheap bastards trying to justify, and horribly i might add, being mean to somebody else.

Also think of this. When i was a driver i would put 100+ miles on my car a week and i live in a rather small town. Now add that $.80 into the price of gas now what is the driver making...now put about %20 of those wages into tuneups, repairs, tires etc for the car. Now what is this driver making? Now figure in what type of risk this person is taking to bring you a damn pizza when there is 13" of snow on the fucking ground, or the roads have iced over, or it is raining or foggy with 10% visibility.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Again this might differ. Where I live (at least for the moment), it is the companies that supplies the car (with heavy company adds on it of course). I have no idea what they pay their drivers, but given that you have to pay additional money to get it delivered (and not fetching it yourself) in combination with higher prizes than I've seen in the US, I assume they get a decent payment. And given that the legal minimum vages for someone above 18 is around $10 or something, I certainly hope so. That said, everything else is more expensive around here... (And for the record, I do tip, but it all depends on how the quality of service was, what the prize was in the first place, and how much (extra) coins I happen to have on me.)



Uh, all of this is based on other countries which i was obviously not refering to.

I also had another point. All you cheap bastards say you are already paying for the service and should be no reason for you to tip right? Well you are wrong. 1. You pay for the food, those that dont want extra service get carry out or pick-up. If you want extra service IE. waiters/drivers expect to tip because you get extra service. So, if you really think about it, which you obviously haven't, you will find that you non-tippers are getting free service. On a closing note, I would like to say to those that don't tip, pay close attention to what you get Image Those that failed to tip me never ordered back a 3rd time...

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Postby Sarvis » Sun Nov 17, 2002 8:41 pm

Ragorn:
Some people assume they make enough salary to cover their costs.

They don't.


Be honest here, pizza delivery requires no special skill or ability other than the capacity to drive a car.

Have you watched people drive lately? I've become convinced no one in my city has a drivers license. What you neglect to mention is how much risk all that driving puts us in, I can't count the number of close calls I had while delivering people's good.


There are things about my job that are unfair too, but nobody cuts me a little extra check because of it.

I dunno about your job, but a lot of jobs give really good employees bonuses and such. Drivers depend on tips to be that bonus...

Bitching about people who don't tip at all or people who are assholes I sympathize with. That sucks, and everybody should realize that delivery IS a tipping situation. But it's a job, with perks and shortcomings like any other job.

Perks: Get to listen to the radio.

Shortcomings: Wear and tear on car, lots of accident risk, chance of getting mugged at a house, have to wash dishes when not delivering, some people will not tip you and still expect you to make multiple trips if they forgot to order a cheesecake, dogs, car gets really hot between deliveries (and my AC didn't work.)

Well, I could probably come up with some more crap if I tried. No point though. I enjoy driving, and it was nice to have the cd player while I was zipping around (usually Sublime) but it just wasn't worth it because I was in an area where I got shitty, if any, tips. I have friends who deliver pizza in nicer neighborhoods who get a lower base salary, but still clear $10/hr with the tips. But if all those people felt like you did and didn't bother with it, it wouldn't be worth anyones time/risk to deliver.

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Postby Corth » Sun Nov 17, 2002 9:06 pm

Heh, I used to know all of my repeat customers who tipped low or not at all. If I had many deliveries to make, those deliveries would always be last. The manager of my restaurant was very supportive of the drivers, and if a customer was known for not tipping he would actually add a couple dollars to the bill and give me the cash. So the cheap assholes ended up paying as if they were giving me a decent tip, but getting the worst possible service. I love it. Image

Corth

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Postby Jensyth » Sun Nov 17, 2002 9:22 pm

Ya know, does anyone know a book/site or just know offhand what professions are expected to receive a tip here in the US? In particular, I've always been uncertain about non-food delivery people, like if the Circuit City has people deliver a television, or a fridge....do those people need to be tipped? how much? I've always tipped them just cause I felt bad that they had to lug around my heavy crap, but I don't know if I gave them enough, or too much, etc. The same goes for movers, like when my gf had to move and she hired some movers, they got paid quite a bit I think per hour, but does that mean tip is included?
Anyone know?
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Postby Gindipple » Sun Nov 17, 2002 9:26 pm

Buddy of mine used to leave a penny tip and a lil business card with the letters W.A.N.T on it.
It stood for Wages and Not Tips.

Tipping is an outdated policy that benifits only the employer, fight it whenever you can!


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Postby Gerad » Sun Nov 17, 2002 9:33 pm

On healthcare:
In america there is no such thing as 'free healthcare' unless your very old or very, very sick. I have had strep throught to where I could bearly speak and a fever so high that I was delerious and been turned away from a doctors office to have to go to an emergency room.

Next:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"><B>Again this might differ. Where I live (at least for the moment), it is the companies that supplies the car (with heavy company adds on it of course). I have no idea what they pay their drivers, but given that you have to pay additional money to get it delivered (and not fetching it yourself) in combination with higher prizes than I've seen in the US, I assume they get a decent payment. And given that the legal minimum vages for someone above 18 is around $10 or something, I certainly hope so. That said, everything else is more expensive around here... (And for the record, I do tip, but it all depends on how the quality of service was, what the prize was in the first place, and how much (extra) coins I happen to have on me.)

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
On this:
The minimum wage being ten dollars an hour is an absurd thought. You also dont have to pay tipped employees minimum wage in america. I have to use my own car. If I deliver to you, rest assured im keeping whatever the change to dollars is and im not giving it back to you (mainly because I dont even carry coin change). And we dont charge for delivery.

Tip the man!

-Gerad



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Postby rachaz » Sun Nov 17, 2002 9:39 pm

This topic is very interesting. I have worked as a bartender and waiter in my life. What some people do not understand is when dealing with your waiter, if you do not tip, they actually lose money. Waiters have to usually tip out the house (bus boys, hosts and bartenders). If a customer does not give a tip, you are still required to tip to the house based on that sale of food. When I saw that I was working at a restaurant with sub par tipping and a high tip out rate, I was forced to go get another job. Each restaurant is different in their tipping practices, I have worked at quite a few now. But one thing does remain constant, if you do not do your job well, you will lose money.

As far as tips at the bar goes, that is just a smart thing to do. I have worked as a bartender in 3 very different situations and I will describe tipping in all three. The first was at a catering hall. Here the drinks were usually included in the price of the affair. Some people would tip me some would not. It usually depended on the type of people at the party and the quality of my service. I preferred when people would tip and would give them better service when they did. At this job, I usually received a lump sum tip as well at the end of the night.

The second job was for a catering service where you still had to pay for drinks. Here people wouldn't tip quite so much. But I appreciated when they did. I couldn't buy back drinks though. It was against the company's rules and I would have lost my job. One thing you have to remember is sometimes the bartender may lose their job for buying back your drinks.

The last job was at a bar. If you are going out and looking for a fun night, you should just tip your bartender. As the bar gets more crowded, your service might not go up but it will remain the same. Remember that as people are five deep at the bar waving dollar bills trying to get a drink. Occasionally, I could give people a drink or two on the house. But trust me, their level of service and quality of drink that I served was more important than a few beers I gave them for free.

Today when I go out to a bar, I realize that this is my time for fun and I might as well throw down an extra couple of bucks to make it more enjoyable. Tipping can get annoying and my wallet is always empty but I do what I can. I always try to get to know my bartender and the quality of service that I get and the strength of my drinks more than makes up for that extra gin and tonic I could have bought.

Remember, if you like the tipping system or dislike it, it is the system we use in the United States. If you disagree with the system, don't think of tipping as doing someone else a favor but as making your night better. The system doesn't seem to be going away any time soon, so you might as well try to live with it.

Rach
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Postby Sartorix » Sun Nov 17, 2002 10:04 pm

If you don't like having a job where you depend on tips, go get a different job. *shrug* Work at Wal-Mart or something.

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Postby Corth » Sun Nov 17, 2002 10:14 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gindipple:
<B>Buddy of mine used to leave a penny tip and a lil business card with the letters W.A.N.T on it.
It stood for Wages and Not Tips.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sure the thoughtfulness of your friend to show his solidarity with the working classes when refusing to pay for their hard work makes the working stiffs feel so much better. I wonder if your friend agreed also to pay higher prices for his food (as he would have done in a country without tipping)?

Btw, how does takeout food at restaurants work in non-tipping countries? Do you pay the same amount of cash for take out food as you would if you ate in the restaurant? In america you don't have to tip a waiter (or pay for their salary through higher priced food) if you are picking up food at the restaurant. Do you get a discount in europe when you pick the food up at the restaurant?

Corth


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Postby Grungar » Sun Nov 17, 2002 10:39 pm

My school has a deal with the nearby Papa John's. So the deal is they charge our account and then the guy comes to the dorm with the pizza. First time I tried this, I get a call from the driver saying "Ok wait outside the dorm, I'll be by in 15 minutes" after waiting half an hour. After 25 minutes, I go back inside to call the place to see what's going on. They said that the driver was on his way and so I should go wait. So I went back outside to see someone in a car that had no markings or anything handing a pizza box to this group of three girls standing around the car. I went down to the car and talked to the guy, and he gave my pizza to the girls that walked up. Why? Because I wasn't out there. So they signed for my pizza, got it free of charge, and disappeared before I could find them. So I called the store, talked to the manager, and the manager said "Well, you should have been out there waiting". I told him everything and he said "You should have been out there waiting". I hung up and have never ordered from them since. I had a $2 and some change tip on there, to boot. The moral of the story is: No matter what, if they can fuck you over, they most likely will. They get so much business from our school, what do they care if they piss off one or two students every week? I could order in and go pick up the pizza myself, but those assholes, as well as the entirety of the Papa John's franchise, have lost my business. I make my own pizzas now when I feel like pizza. Cheaper, most of the ingredients keep forever in the fridge or freezer, and it tastes damn skippy with Barilla sweet pepper marinara sauce as the pizza sauce.

I tip waiters and waitresses 15-20% min, unless they seriously suck at getting drinks refilled, screwing up orders, etc. Yeah.

- Grungar "Yay capitalism" Forgefire
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Postby Lenefir » Sun Nov 17, 2002 11:17 pm

<I>Originally posted by Kifle:
Uh, all of this is based on other countries which i was obviously not refering to.
</I>

Ok, my fault for mixing together posts :-/

I also had another point. All you cheap bastards say you are already paying for the service and should be no reason for you to tip right? Well you are wrong. 1. You pay for the food, those that dont want extra service get carry out or pick-up. If you want extra service IE. waiters/drivers expect to tip because you get extra service. So, if you really think about it, which you obviously haven't, you will find that you non-tippers are getting free service.

(I think) my post was more for those complaining over Chezra complaining, saying that in some countries the prize for the driving and delivering is already included in the bill, and the car is provided by the company, so any extra tip is just if you are happy with the service provided.

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[This message has been edited by Lenefir (edited 11-17-2002).]
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Postby Gindipple » Sun Nov 17, 2002 11:22 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Corth:
<B>I wonder if your friend agreed also to pay higher prices for his food (as he would have done in a country without tipping)?

Corth

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is precisely the point.
List the price as advertised.
Tips do nothing to benifit anyone but the employer.
Why? cuz they can advertise a lower rate for their food than the person who includes the service fee in the listed price.

It reeks of favortism too, do you tip a hot looking chic better or a guy who gives better service? (question for men)


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Postby Selias » Sun Nov 17, 2002 11:26 pm

Being a college student, a lot of my jobs have been ones that receive tips. I completely agree with Gerad. Tip your delivery driver if you ordered the pizza.

In countries where the tip is included in the price of your meal, is there a standard of service? If your server does a great job is there any way to set that apart from the server that does a shitty job? If there isn't, and I was a server in this non-tipping country, I would not work very hard at my job because there is no incentive. What do you guys do to avoid this problem?

When I go out and order dinner I always tip at least 15% regardless of service. If the service is good, I'll go higher, but if the service is bad I won't go lower than 15%. People depend on their tips to make ends meet, and I don't want to be the guy who doesn't tip and because of it that server can't make rent for the month.

I just don't understand why it's a big deal to throw down an extra few dollars to make the server/delivery person/bartender's day better, maybe put a smile on their face.

Gerad said it the best...

Tip the man!
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Postby Gerad » Sun Nov 17, 2002 11:27 pm

I get great tips from chicks ordering pizza alone on a saturday night. And no, get your mind out of the gutter.

Theres not too much favortism and all the drivers at our store are guys anyway.

Also Ive gone to slums and gotten 5$ tips and gone to mansions and gotten nothing.

It depends on the kind of person you are. You dont have to like how it works, but thats the way that it is. If you dont tip, that is rude, whether your think it should work some other way or not.

Live in your fantasy world, but please tip in mine.

-Gerad


Edit:
Oh yeah, and dont even think that you dont have to tip because someone else will. Few nights ago I ran into that at almost every house and walked away from 12 deliverys with six bucks after gas.

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[This message has been edited by Gerad (edited 11-17-2002).]
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Postby Gindipple » Sun Nov 17, 2002 11:34 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Selias:
<B>In countries where the tip is included in the price of your meal, is there a standard of service? If your server does a great job is there any way to set that apart from the server that does a shitty job? If there isn't, and I was a server in this non-tipping country, I would not work very hard at my job because there is no incentive. What do you guys do to avoid this problem?
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ROFL here in lies the problem, if you can hie behind others you would be lazy?

What to do to solve this problem? HAHA it's quite simple really, you fire the people that are lazy!


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Postby Lenefir » Mon Nov 18, 2002 1:15 am

<I>Originally posted by Selias:
In countries where the tip is included in the price of your meal, is there a standard of service? If your server does a great job is there any way to set that apart from the server that does a shitty job?</I>

No standard, but all the people I know here tip IF they find the service good. Usually, the more tip, the better service, but that is my friends and me. I think most people here do it like that, though. Employees here are supposed to get their payment from their boss, not the customers Image And if you have to pay almost $30 for a pizza big enough for three persons (and sometimes (depends on the restaurant policy) add another $5 to the bill if you want it delivered to the door), I think they have included their employees wages in that bill Image I mean, a big Big Mac menu at McDonalds costs almost $10! (Just for the note, I know someone that was so unsatisfied with their treatment at a restaurant that they gave what would correspond to about 1 cent in tip Image)

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Postby Eza » Mon Nov 18, 2002 1:24 am

Whenever I go out or have something delivered (very rarely) I always tip $2.15 - hoping that someday someone will get my little joke and not be mad that I'm really too broke to afford more Image. If the waiter/waitress/delivery person is reeeeally good I give $5.. even if that's all I paid for my meal.

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Postby Vahok » Mon Nov 18, 2002 1:52 am

I've worked as a bartender, I don't believe in the standard rules for tipping. I earned my tips by giving the customer what they wanted. If they needed privacy, they got privacy. If they wanted a "friend" to talk to, they got one.
I used to tell jokes, make drinks with a little flair, talk sports....whatever I had to do to make cash. The women I worked with made money easier than me, because, well...they were attractive Image Tradionally, men do order more than women (ie. amount of booze drank), so I had to figure a way out to even the playing field. But tip someone 15% because it's custom...hell no. Like any job, hard work is a reward, and try to see that for any job that makes tips.

Bottom line is...don't be a cheap asshole. If the poor girl is working her ass off...tip her! If some guy is driving in a snow storm with 3 pizzas...tip the man! However if you feel the service sucks, don't feel you have to tip. I guess you have to work in a tipping job to have some compassion for these employees. I tip based on service, not on society. There is a reason these people don't even make minimum wage. Think of your tip as a commision if it makes ya feel better.

Plus everyone who tips heavy has a point...I would remember those people even to this day.
I would go outta my way to provide the best service possible, which I figure they'd payed for. Tipping pays off...ever tried to get a beer at last call? If you are a big tipper, I bet you've gotten a drink order with one minute to spare. If you were a cheap tipper...I'll take my chances on making you wait. My two cents....

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Postby Selias » Mon Nov 18, 2002 7:15 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gindipple:
<B> ROFL here in lies the problem, if you can hie behind others you would be lazy?

What to do to solve this problem? HAHA it's quite simple really, you fire the people that are lazy!


</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well that would work if the person was a complete waste, but what about those people who work just hard enough to keep their jobs? Tipping is a way to make sure that your server does a good job. If they know up front they're not going to get a tip, maybe they'll forget to get you that extra desert fork or another side of salad dressing.

As an aside, anyone know what you should tip on a $12 haircut? I usually give $2-4 depending on how nice the stylist was. How does this sound to you?
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Postby Sarvis » Mon Nov 18, 2002 1:10 pm

Actually, a friend of mine used to own a hair salon. He told me that hairdressers got half of the amount you pay for the haircut from the company, and therefore did not need to be tipped.

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