Tip the man!

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Zoldren
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Postby Zoldren » Mon Nov 18, 2002 2:09 pm

someone find out why /how tipping was started and by whom... and then find out why tipping was made /taken from certain salarys...and not others....

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Postby Rausrh » Mon Nov 18, 2002 2:16 pm

Jeg, Chez, correct me here, but isn't tipping automaticly included in the bill at most places in europe? And in addition to this most people just leave their coin change on the table as well? I seem to remember most places I went to.

Assuming this is so:
Would you rather have the choice as to how much 'extra' money you give the workers? It probably depends on which side you are; If I was a server I would want tips included with the bill, if I was the custoemr I would not.



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Kifle
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Postby Kifle » Mon Nov 18, 2002 2:45 pm

Heh, I remember a lot of you who are in america telling us how you hate tipping etc, but in other posts I would mention how i disagree with the government and you would tell me if i dont like it leave the country. I guess the same would apply here, no? But untill then tip or have your food fucked with Image It makes me think how much other peoples saliva and snot you have all eaten because of your choice to be an asshole. I personally never did this, i would just throw their pizza in my car or accidentaly slant it or drop it at their door after i knew they didnt tip. If i were to ever open a pizzaria I would make the people say how much they were tipping first then add that to their bill. So, they could still not tip, but if they did the driver knew before hand before he drove 10mph+ over the speed limit to get a good tip...

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Postby Ashiwi » Mon Nov 18, 2002 3:26 pm

I worked as a waitress for many years before I'd finally had enough and found something else to do. I made great money as a server, but it just wasn't worth the headaches and hassles that went with it. I've worked at about everything there is out there, and yes, I've done the heavy labor Cherzra, and waiting tables stood toe to toe with any of the hardest work I've ever done on any job. You've got to tote around heavy weights? Try lifting it on one arm and having to carry it over your head, weaving through a pathway tight enough to only let a toddler through and dodging idiots who think they're the only ones in the world who matter. My left shoulder is trashed, and I'm fairly sure it's due to waiting tables for so long.

Money? I made $2.01 when I started, and years later my wage topped out at $2.11. Raises? Almost every waitress job I ever worked the supervisors told the employees "You want a raise, you go make your own raise on the floor." The nice restaurants give raises to their serving staff, but a great deal of the low-dollar diners do not. I started in a breakfast diner, eventually worked in fine dining, and settled in a place somewhere between, because the tips were better and the treatment from the customers and staff was MUCH better. I had no problems taking home $400.00 to $600.00 a week, but I worked 8-12 hour shifts overnights and hauled ass for that kind of money. The other servers on the floor typically made about half of what I did, but I was one of those who went the extra mile. I sang songs, told jokes, made faces and talked to my customers like they were human. I knew them by name and remembered what my regulars ordered. I was featured in a newspaper article on restaurants in the area once which was done on "Personalities of the Overnight Shift."

And I would never, ever, EVER do it again in my life. It's easily one of the most physically and mentally stressful jobs I've ever had, and don't forget I grew up on a farm milking cows, baling hay and bringing in crops. I'd bale hay for twelve hours any day over taking the demeaning crap you sometimes have to put up with from customers.

The Sunday church-going crowd was the worst. They were bitchy, demanding, tipped for crap and were often just downright mean-hearted. The best shift to work was the overnight shift, because even the drunks were easier to get along with than the business crowd. Smokers tipped better than non-smokers, and there are many other stereotypes which seemed to hold true in waiting tables. One of the worst regular diners I had? Oral Roberts. Nuff said? His whole family are sucky tippers and unpleasant stuffed shirts.

Sometimes working in the service industry SUCKS. It had its shining moments and I met a lot of wonderful people, but I still can't look back on those years too fondly. The best thing it taught me was how to smile through even the absolute worst moments of my life. It's amazing what making yourself smile will eventually do for you. Oh, and people skills... I can deal with total strangers without a problem and even charm them when I have to, which helped to net me a job a few years ago where I got to hob-knob with the mayor, his cronies, and the general powers of the city for a while (I still preferred the drunks for sheer personality-factor). Everybody should have to go through charm-school hell just for that.
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Postby Ragorn » Mon Nov 18, 2002 6:37 pm

Emily waited tables last year around this time. She worked at the most popular place in town, which is basically a sandwich shop. She worked "full time", which meant that when she arrived she would be given a number indicating the order in which she would get to go home. If she got #1-4, she could expect to be there about 3 hours that day and make no money.

After 9/11 it was a regular occasion for her to work 5-8 hours (as long as they would let her stay) and bring home $20 in tips. She got the $2.35 hourly rate, so can you imagine working an 8 hour day and averaging LESS than minimum wage? Law says they were supposed to step up her hourly to cover her tips if she didn't average $5.15, but they pointedly ignored the law.

Her very first table on her first day was a guy who heard her kind of stutter through her opening speech, looked at her in the face and said, "Can you go back in the kitchen please and get me someone who knows what they're doing? Thanks." and then turned to look at his menu. Surprisingly, she didn't punch him in the face Image

I could never work food service for all of these reasons.

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Postby Kason » Mon Nov 18, 2002 7:27 pm

Watch your feet folks, I'm sure I'm about to step on quite a few toes here. But here goes anyway...

I work in the heating and air conditioning industry. Meaning, when your a/c or heater breaks down, I'm the guy that shows up at your house to fix it. Now, take into consideration that this is a 24 hour, 7 day a week job. When a customer calls me at 3 am b/c their furnace stopped working and its freezing outside, I have to crawl my fat ass out of bed, and go fix it, period. Now, by 3 am, I've normally been in bed about 3 hours. After getting up, getting dressed, driving to the customer's house, fixing the furnace, driving home, undressing, and getting back in bed, it's now about 4:30-5 am. That's if everything goes smooth, and its an easy repair. I have to be at work the next morning at 7am, so I'm back up at 5:45 getting ready for work. So in the scenario I'm looking at 4 hours of sleep this particular night. This happens ALL the time. And you know what? I don't expect to be tipped. As a matter of fact, I refuse tips anytime they are offered (Which VERY rarely happens anyway). The way that I look at it is I'm already being paid to do my job. Yes getting very little sleep sucks. Yes, being on call 24 hrs a day, 365 days a year sucks. Not to mention that the vast majority of people out there are extremely ungrateful. But you know what? It's the profession that I chose.

Now for my take on tipping. Understand on the frontend, I tip, and I tip VERY well. Unless the service is shitty, then about the only tip you're gonna get out of me is the recommendation that it's probably not a good idea to eat yellow snow. In the US, there are government run programs that provide for the less fortunate (I.E. disabled, unemployed, or just generally lazy people) such as welfare etc. In my opinion, the tipping customs that have been established in this country, are nothing more than a welfare program established by the industries that thrive on paying employees shitty wages, and then use the bullshit excuse that with tips that they will receive, they will actually be making upwards of $10 an hour. Face it, what unique skills does it take to write down someone's order, turn it over to the kitchen, bring the customer's drinks, and then bring the food to the table when it's done? Honestly, a trained monkey could do the job just as well, if only they could get them to stop pleasuring themselves, and flinging poo. Like I've already stated, I tip, and I tip well. This is customary in my country, therefore, I abide by it. Even though I do now like it.

Tipping was has become customary simply b/c the food industry has forced it upon their employees. There will always be a HUGE unskilled workforce. The industry knows this, and takes full advantage of it. I'll use a pizza place as an example. Most pay their employees whatever the minimum hourly wage is for tipped employees and promise the moon including tips. Now, while they are paying their employees relatively jack shit in wages, the pizza that these places provide are always at least marked up 200% or more. I have several close friends that work for 2 different major pizza franchises here in town and have been told (not that I know this to be a fact) that you can pile all the toppings that you could possibly want on a large pizza, and still the actual cost of the ingredients and labor involved in the making of that pizza will always be less than $2.50 and they sell it to the customer or $15+ dollars? But yet I'm expected as the patron of this restaurant to foot the income of their employees so that the rich can get richer while the poor, unskilled smuck that delivered the generally subpar pizza to my house struggles on a daily basis to survive financially?!

I tip well, knowing that, 1) its not my job to provide the main source of income for the waiter/waitress/delivery person, 2) but if I don't, the business that they work for damn sure isn't going to. Therefore, I adhere to the system, even though I must say, it's fucked.

That being said, I'll fade back into my retirement from the mud, and continue to lurk on the bbs. Have a nice day, and you might want to get some ice on those toes, that pinky toe is looking particularly smashed.
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Postby sok » Tue Nov 19, 2002 3:52 am

my parents are from a third world country. they dont believe in being overcharged for food, which is one of the reason they hate americanize or non-asian restaraunts. anyways it's customary for them not to tip. they have gotten a little better cuz us kids frown upon them. usually the kids would just so we dont ahve to argue with my parents, which my parents frown upon. cultural- goes with what jenera talked about.

i agree food service is tough work. i worked in yoshinoya for 1 day. i was a cook. i worked 6 hours and it was tough. cleaning, cooking, washing, moping. i was like forget this. after the day was over, i went to the mgr and said sorry this isn't for me. of course i was a cook and i hate cleaning and hot stove. i dont know how i would have fare as a service. i might have lasted a couple of weeks or until they made me mop the floor or clean the bathroom or something like that.

my food service experience, the whole 1 day worth, definately taught me to show respect to people working with food.
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Postby Tanji Smanji » Tue Nov 19, 2002 9:14 am

Bah! No fine dining servers here? Stop with the 1-2 dollar tips, get into a nice high class place and go for the 90-150 dollar tips! After more than a few years managing one of these places, I'll tell you flat out. If you leave without tipping then you and I will have a talk before you leave. I take care of my staff and in turn they provide the best service possible. Period.

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cherzra
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Postby cherzra » Tue Nov 19, 2002 11:50 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Tanji Smanji:
<B>After more than a few years managing one of these places, I'll tell you flat out. If you leave without tipping then you and I will have a talk before you leave.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You and I will have a talk... ooh scary! And you'll tell me what? "Hey asshole, you didn't tip, what's your problem?"

Oh I would laugh so loud in your face (right after I exploded in anger that is), I'd humiliate you in front of the entire restaurant. Is that what you would want? I doubt it would be good for your place of business.

If it's not on the bill, it's entirely up to me whether or not I tip. If I don't, thats just tough.
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Postby Tasan » Tue Nov 19, 2002 1:40 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Selias:
Well that would work if the person was a complete waste, but what about those people who work just hard enough to keep their jobs? </font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You mean Union Workers? Feh.

I had always believed that a tip was something "extra" given for especially decent service. I really don't think it was supposed to become what it has today, with the gov allowing businesses to pay their employees so little just because they earn tips. Much of that stems from the fact that tips used to be an under-the-table thing, seperate from real income. Now that the IRS can actually TAX for tips, I believe anyone working these positions is getting the shaft. It's unfortunate that some really cannot find a better job, and have to suffer through a life of drudgery at less than minimum wage and pray that each night they will make enough in tips to perhaps survive another month.

I try to tip when I find it appropriate.

Twinshadow

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Postby thanuk » Tue Nov 19, 2002 4:23 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by cherzra:
<B> You and I will have a talk... ooh scary! And you'll tell me what? "Hey asshole, you didn't tip, what's your problem?"

Oh I would laugh so loud in your face (right after I exploded in anger that is), I'd humiliate you in front of the entire restaurant. Is that what you would want? I doubt it would be good for your place of business.

If it's not on the bill, it's entirely up to me whether or not I tip. If I don't, thats just tough.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


If you did that in this country, every person in the place would look on you with disdain. Tipping is such a standard in the U.S. that they can adjust the wages of people who receive them to account for it, and they managed to figure out a way to tax them. You would just come off as an irrational, cheap, cold hearted asshole, and you would be the one humiliated in front of the entire resturaunt.

FYI TIPS is an acronymn...
To Insure Prompt Service

This being said, you should adjust your tipping, based on said acronymn. As for who to tip, you should tip anyone who's job is to do some menial task for you, such as bringing you food, cleaning up after you, parking/fetching your car, and the most overlooked of all those who are tipped, anyone who LIFTS SOMETHING HEAVY FOR YOU. If a man comes to your house and carries a washing machine up two flights of stairs on a hand truck and installs it, you owe him 5 -10 dollars. Its not on the bill. You still owe it to him. I dont care what you say in response, you OWE it to him. Hard labor is yes, the most brainless of work, but at the same time it is the most disdained. If you don't want to tip him, tell him to leave it on the front steps and drag it up the stairs yourself. In 8 weeks when you leave the chiropractor and can almost walk straight, you'll realize what a menial sum 10 dollars is. You pay for life, car, and house insurance, whats an extra 5 bux for prompt service insurance? "I work hard for my money and i shouldnt have to tip because blah blah blah" They are working hard too. Just tip the friggin guy, scroogie.


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Tanji Smanji
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Postby Tanji Smanji » Tue Nov 19, 2002 8:46 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by cherzra:
<B> You and I will have a talk... ooh scary! And you'll tell me what? "Hey asshole, you didn't tip, what's your problem?"

Oh I would laugh so loud in your face (right after I exploded in anger that is), I'd humiliate you in front of the entire restaurant. Is that what you would want? I doubt it would be good for your place of business.

If it's not on the bill, it's entirely up to me whether or not I tip. If I don't, thats just tough.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


And after you got your stupid ass tossed out I'd tack the tip onto your account. Yer little tough act wouldn't go quite as far as you think it would. The one nice thing about working in a private restaurant is I have more power to see that my servers are treated properly. That and I'm allowed to refuse service to assholes. So, next time you grace us with a visit please do stop by so I can prove my point.

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Postby cherzra » Tue Nov 19, 2002 9:11 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Tanji Smanji:
<B>
And after you got your stupid ass tossed out I'd tack the tip onto your account. Yer little tough act wouldn't go quite as far as you think it would. The one nice thing about working in a private restaurant is I have more power to see that my servers are treated properly. That and I'm allowed to refuse service to assholes. So, next time you grace us with a visit please do stop by so I can prove my point.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ha ha ha! You're going to 'throw me out' when I give you a nickel for your trouble after you 'explain things' to me in this 'talk'? Rofl. Touch me and I'll sue you for a fortune, and you'll spend the rest of your life washing dishes to pay me my millions. Isn't that part of the great American spirit too? Aah yes, the country where thumbtacks need 'do not press into eyes!' warning labels Image Oh good luck trying to refuse me service another time, if you bitch about not getting a tip I won't be back anyway.
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Postby Tanji Smanji » Tue Nov 19, 2002 9:19 pm

Heh, you got a lot to learn my sheltered friend. My restaurant was the top rated place in service and food for 6 years straight. And yes, I will toss you out, no you will not enjoy suing over it. And again, your cute little tough act will be laughed at just like it's laughed at on here. Bring it on.

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Kifle
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Postby Kifle » Tue Nov 19, 2002 11:22 pm

Rofl, I can't even believe that the argument "they should get better jobs" was even brought up. If nobody works these shit jobs then who the fuck is going to bring your lazy ass the pizza or food, who the hell is going to carry that frig into your house...not your weak ass. You should tip them just for the fact that they have these jobs.

Yes, manual labor sucks but you get really nice benefits: 401k, bonuses, health/dental insurance, paid vacation, holidays off, manditory breaks, sometimes paid lunch, personal days, etc...Just remember how much your job sucks compared to these peoples when you are at denny's on sunday morning thinking, 'glad i get the weekends off', or 'its nice to spend time with my family on easter'....cheap bastards.

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Postby sok » Wed Nov 20, 2002 12:55 am

tanji wheres your restaraut. think you can hook me up w/ a cheap meal?
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Postby Tanji Smanji » Wed Nov 20, 2002 1:04 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by sok:
tanji wheres your restaraut. think you can hook me up w/ a cheap meal? </font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll show you the dish station and you can earn it! Image

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Postby jalahon » Wed Nov 20, 2002 1:28 am

Thank god Tanji....
the restaurant i work at has similar management...It's a pretty pricey place to eat, but the food is great and I wouldnt even really call it service as much as i would call it precogniciense (spelling, lol). We have around 8 steps of service for every table of guests and we take DAMN good care of people while they dine by not only being quick, corteous and friendly, but also by anticipating what you will be looking for next and having it ready for you even before u ask for it. Granted, this line of work isnt for everyone....u definately HAVE to romance some tables to work up the digits, and some tables are a lost cause before they even enter the restaurant...but if no tip is left period, the managers will have a talk with the table (and trust me, servers always check to see if at least some tip has been left before u have even reached the doorway). Sometimes you get bad tips! Not to sound racist, but my expectation of a bad tip starts when i hear accents (i cant help it, i usually get bad tips from foreign visitors Image ).
As a professional student, this is a great line of work. I bust my ass, and only have to work 2 nights a week to pull in about 600-700 dollars...but the only thing that keeps me from going berserk most of the time dealing with silly people is the fact that within 2 years, ill be making much more, and I won't even have to say hi to people if i dont wanna!
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Postby Pheten » Wed Nov 20, 2002 1:51 am

"Bah! No fine dining servers here? Stop with the 1-2 dollar tips, get into a nice high class place and go for the 90-150 dollar tips!"

How much would the bill be with a tip that big on average.. just curious, I've always wondered how much they charge in those expensive ass places and have honestly never eaten at one.=p


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Postby Daz » Wed Nov 20, 2002 1:54 am

i was a server at the radisson. 200 bucks a night in tips on most nights. plus, the waitresses were HOT. like OMG, there was this girl melissa - oh man, the things she could do with her hands. and she could cook!

tip or not, its all good. there are other benefits to being a server.

1 - getting chicks phone numbers
2 - sleeping with coworkers
3 - getting to stay any radisson in the world for 40 bucks a night
4 - rich people. we had a guy tip the entire staff 50 dollars a head. guess what kind of treatment that man gets when he comes back?
5 - sleeping with coworkers
6 - getting chicks phone numbers

i never expect people to tip honestly, i expect some people not to tip. cherzra not tipping me wouldn't really bother me. if he came back, i would probably try harder to impress him, but i would eventually give up.

however, the people who appreciate fast, courteous service outweigh those who do not, and eventually it becomes everyone's right to tip or not as they see fit.

personally, i tip 20-30% or up to 50% for really good service. it is worth it for the treatment i receive in return for being a repeat customer.
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Postby Tanji Smanji » Wed Nov 20, 2002 2:09 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Pheten:
How much would the bill be with a tip that big on average.. just curious, I've always wondered how much they charge in those expensive ass places and have honestly never eaten at one.=p

[/B]</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

For a 4-person party? About 500-600. Saw a couple run up an 800 dollar tab once. They went the whole 9 yards, 2 250$ bottles of wine, appetizers, dinner, dessert, then a 70$ bottle of cherry chocolate port afterwards.

Best are the groups of friends that haven't seen each other in a long time. They'll have 5-6 ppl and shell out tons on drinks and food. Those tables were rewards for servers not bugging me during my quiet time!

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Postby Zetey » Wed Nov 20, 2002 3:21 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by jalahon:
As a professional student, this is a great line of work. I bust my ass, and only have to work 2 nights a week to pull in about 600-700 dollars...but the only thing that keeps me from going berserk most of the time dealing with silly people is the fact that within 2 years, ill be making much more, and I won't even have to say hi to people if i dont wanna!</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you work two nights a week and pull in $600-$700, you're not busting your ass. A lot of people work under much harsher conditions 7 days a week and don't make $500.

As for that last part, I don't even know where to begin with how wrong that statement is.
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Postby jalahon » Wed Nov 20, 2002 7:25 am

pardon me, i mean i bust my ass at school and only have to work those nights to make that amount...as for the last part, being in customer service for ur entire life will tend to wear u out. Not having to deal with that will be a perk, once im out of school.
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Postby Keran » Wed Nov 20, 2002 11:06 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Zetey:
<B> If you work two nights a week and pull in $600-$700, you're not busting your ass. A lot of people work under much harsher conditions 7 days a week and don't make $500.

As for that last part, I don't even know where to begin with how wrong that statement is.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe he's a stripper who sreves food and drinks. Now that would be busting his a$$. Those papercuts can hurt down there.

Toarn *shakes his bon-bon*

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