Not going to call you stupid, dude.
Just stop taking these attacks personally, look at it logically, and know that noone would want your pfile deleted.
Valid concerns (even if you don't agree) are being made... As it pertains to the person. And it's not a personal attack on you.
I lose sight of that sometimes too.
Sorry if my initial post was harsh.
------------------
Malacar - omg ymir!
[This message has been edited by Malacar (edited 11-30-2002).]
Invokers and game balance...
-
Xisiqomelir
- Sojourner
- Posts: 870
- Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2002 5:01 am
- Location: Ixarkon
- Contact:
-
Donuktanam
- Sojourner
- Posts: 43
- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 5:01 am
- Location: The Lion City,Singapore
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Malacar:
<B>Not going to call you stupid, dude.
Just stop taking these attacks personally, look at it logically, and know that noone would want your pfile deleted.
Valid concerns (even if you don't agree) are being made... As it pertains to the person. And it's not a personal attack on you.
I lose sight of that sometimes too.
Sorry if my initial post was harsh.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Xisi doesnt have a voker man,he's a bloody hardcore !alts psionicist,
------------------
Xisiqomelir group-projects 'donut u cast offense again i will rape u :P'
<B>Not going to call you stupid, dude.
Just stop taking these attacks personally, look at it logically, and know that noone would want your pfile deleted.
Valid concerns (even if you don't agree) are being made... As it pertains to the person. And it's not a personal attack on you.
I lose sight of that sometimes too.
Sorry if my initial post was harsh.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Xisi doesnt have a voker man,he's a bloody hardcore !alts psionicist,
------------------
Xisiqomelir group-projects 'donut u cast offense again i will rape u :P'
1. There is no problem with melee combat.
2. There is no problem with spell damages.
3. You guys are funny to discus taking invokers out of the game.
If you ask me.. there was more of a transition to imbalance with the recent defensive options (such as displace and embodyment), and combination defense/offense (such as nightmare and spirit wrack). Nightmare is hardcore imbalacing if I had to pick out my favorite example. But its all fun and games.
2. There is no problem with spell damages.
3. You guys are funny to discus taking invokers out of the game.
If you ask me.. there was more of a transition to imbalance with the recent defensive options (such as displace and embodyment), and combination defense/offense (such as nightmare and spirit wrack). Nightmare is hardcore imbalacing if I had to pick out my favorite example. But its all fun and games.
Zalkenai Ark'Henned 49 1/2 lvl Invoker
Just a few points for people to ponder.
I've been following this thread for a while now, since if changes are to be made, they are going to affect me directly.
I love the drow race, they are subversive and cunning, and I am fascinated by the intricacies of their society.
My first choice when I started playing here would have been to make a drow illusionist. But alas, it was deemed to powerful.
So I chose my second favorite thing... the option to obliterate on a massive scale.
Not all of us zone semi-afk, as was noted by someone earlier.
I will concede that my class is not extremely difficult to play. But whether or not you believe it... there are some little quirqies you can pull off to make you a good invoker as opposed to just an atomic bomb.
(I have yet to master most of them!)
Even though I may be a one-trick pony, I have alot of fun when I zone. I don't just inferno everything (unless I'm in scorps) I like to mix up spells, cause it's so much fun to blind, or silence... and just figuring out what the best combinations for different fights are. Yes, it's simple... but at the same time, I enjoy it.
Now, if I'm forced to chose another mage class (unless it's a drow illusionist *nudge*) I will most likely just give the eq I have to some other mage that needs/wants it, and that will be the end of it.
What I'm wondering is... does our existence really take away from your enjoyment of the game that much? Especially since there doesn't seem to be that many invokers on the good side.
What I know is, if you remove my class...
It will remove my fun.
Zalkenai Ark'Henneld
Just a few points for people to ponder.
I've been following this thread for a while now, since if changes are to be made, they are going to affect me directly.
I love the drow race, they are subversive and cunning, and I am fascinated by the intricacies of their society.
My first choice when I started playing here would have been to make a drow illusionist. But alas, it was deemed to powerful.
So I chose my second favorite thing... the option to obliterate on a massive scale.
Not all of us zone semi-afk, as was noted by someone earlier.
I will concede that my class is not extremely difficult to play. But whether or not you believe it... there are some little quirqies you can pull off to make you a good invoker as opposed to just an atomic bomb.
(I have yet to master most of them!)
Even though I may be a one-trick pony, I have alot of fun when I zone. I don't just inferno everything (unless I'm in scorps) I like to mix up spells, cause it's so much fun to blind, or silence... and just figuring out what the best combinations for different fights are. Yes, it's simple... but at the same time, I enjoy it.
Now, if I'm forced to chose another mage class (unless it's a drow illusionist *nudge*) I will most likely just give the eq I have to some other mage that needs/wants it, and that will be the end of it.
What I'm wondering is... does our existence really take away from your enjoyment of the game that much? Especially since there doesn't seem to be that many invokers on the good side.
What I know is, if you remove my class...
It will remove my fun.
Zalkenai Ark'Henneld
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jaznolg:
[B]1. There is no problem with melee combat.
2. There is no problem with spell damages.
3. You guys are funny to discus taking invokers out of the game.
B]</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Is it allowed for me to agree with a drow?
------------------
-Yayaril
[B]1. There is no problem with melee combat.
2. There is no problem with spell damages.
3. You guys are funny to discus taking invokers out of the game.
B]</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Is it allowed for me to agree with a drow?
------------------
-Yayaril
-
Xisiqomelir
- Sojourner
- Posts: 870
- Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2002 5:01 am
- Location: Ixarkon
- Contact:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Yayaril:
<B> Is it allowed for me to agree with a drow?
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You tell Ythera "i can't believe i'd ever see a thread where YOU were the poster i most agreed with'
Ythera tells you "It must be a fluke, like a two headed snake"
Well, if *I* can agree with a food thing....
------------------
"I know you like to believe fairy tales about how rude and unfair evils are, but keep them on your side of Baldur's Gate."
<B> Is it allowed for me to agree with a drow?
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You tell Ythera "i can't believe i'd ever see a thread where YOU were the poster i most agreed with'
Ythera tells you "It must be a fluke, like a two headed snake"
Well, if *I* can agree with a food thing....
------------------
"I know you like to believe fairy tales about how rude and unfair evils are, but keep them on your side of Baldur's Gate."
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Donuktanam:
<B> Xisi doesnt have a voker man,he's a bloody hardcore !alts psionicist,
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't see what the big deal is then, or why he seems to be taking it so personally.
If you don't agree, great. But why keep posting and getting worked up over it?
It's a game. People have concerns. If you don't agree, awesome. I'm glad you have fun and don't have a worry about it. Not everyone is like that, and I honestly envy folks that can do that.
Just let them vent a bit, I guess. *shrug* Call it a flamewar all you want, I don't take this personally, so I'm not quite sure why you are.
------------------
Malacar - omg ymir!
<B> Xisi doesnt have a voker man,he's a bloody hardcore !alts psionicist,
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't see what the big deal is then, or why he seems to be taking it so personally.
If you don't agree, great. But why keep posting and getting worked up over it?
It's a game. People have concerns. If you don't agree, awesome. I'm glad you have fun and don't have a worry about it. Not everyone is like that, and I honestly envy folks that can do that.
Just let them vent a bit, I guess. *shrug* Call it a flamewar all you want, I don't take this personally, so I'm not quite sure why you are.
------------------
Malacar - omg ymir!
-
Xisiqomelir
- Sojourner
- Posts: 870
- Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2002 5:01 am
- Location: Ixarkon
- Contact:
I tell you what, if you really insist on reading the thread in reverse chronogical order and responding halfway, and then accuse everyone else of being uppity when you didn't feel the need to read the rest of their posts, I'll just respond with pictures of wolves playing in the snow instead of wasting effort on unread responses.
Hell, let's start now.
------------------
"I know you like to believe fairy tales about how rude and unfair evils are, but keep them on your side of Baldur's Gate."
Hell, let's start now.
------------------
"I know you like to believe fairy tales about how rude and unfair evils are, but keep them on your side of Baldur's Gate."
-
Xisiqomelir
- Sojourner
- Posts: 870
- Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2002 5:01 am
- Location: Ixarkon
- Contact:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Daz:
methinx xisi is having fun with putting pictures in his posts :P</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Don't pretend you're not enjoying it, I can see the gleam in your eye.
------------------
"I know you like to believe fairy tales about how rude and unfair evils are, but keep them on your side of Baldur's Gate."
methinx xisi is having fun with putting pictures in his posts :P</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Don't pretend you're not enjoying it, I can see the gleam in your eye.
------------------
"I know you like to believe fairy tales about how rude and unfair evils are, but keep them on your side of Baldur's Gate."
Invokers can solo quite well, too. There are utility spells that lend a far greater hand than just spamming force missiles.
I soloed my invoker on Soj2 from 1-39. No joke. How? Heal rooms > all.
But really, you can solo with any class if you know where to go and what skills/spells to use.
The problem here is that area spells are indeed affecting the balance. But then again, so are defensive spells and the pathetic lack of defensive *skills*.
So before I hijack this thread and turn it into another warrior skills suck one, I'll shut up and just say invokers should stay, it's the spellpower that needs looking at. They should be doing the most damage per spell, but not obliterating everything, especially since inferno and swarm are both common knowledge now.
Deathmagnet
I soloed my invoker on Soj2 from 1-39. No joke. How? Heal rooms > all.
But really, you can solo with any class if you know where to go and what skills/spells to use.
The problem here is that area spells are indeed affecting the balance. But then again, so are defensive spells and the pathetic lack of defensive *skills*.
So before I hijack this thread and turn it into another warrior skills suck one, I'll shut up and just say invokers should stay, it's the spellpower that needs looking at. They should be doing the most damage per spell, but not obliterating everything, especially since inferno and swarm are both common knowledge now.
Deathmagnet
-
Xisiqomelir
- Sojourner
- Posts: 870
- Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2002 5:01 am
- Location: Ixarkon
- Contact:
Invokers are not going to be removed.
It is too easy to make one class the scapegoat for all of the MUD's problems, especially when the real problems are far-reaching and complex. Myself and the rest of the staff are working on these problems, and I ask only that you be patient.
Your feedback is highly valued of course, and you are welcome to argue any point as long as it is done constructively.
------------------
<B>Shevarash -- Code Forger of Sojourn3
</B>
It is too easy to make one class the scapegoat for all of the MUD's problems, especially when the real problems are far-reaching and complex. Myself and the rest of the staff are working on these problems, and I ask only that you be patient.
Your feedback is highly valued of course, and you are welcome to argue any point as long as it is done constructively.
------------------
<B>Shevarash -- Code Forger of Sojourn3
</B>
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Shevarash:
<B>Invokers are not going to be removed.
It is too easy to make one class the scapegoat for all of the MUD's problems, especially when the real problems are far-reaching and complex. Myself and the rest of the staff are working on these problems, and I ask only that you be patient.
Your feedback is highly valued of course, and you are welcome to argue any point as long as it is done constructively.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
thanks for posting this. i can't speak for everyone, but to me it speaks volumes. if there is anything i can do as a player, or we can do as a community, to help you guys - then ask. some of us feel very attached to this game, and helping would be community service that i wouldn't mind paying.
<B>Invokers are not going to be removed.
It is too easy to make one class the scapegoat for all of the MUD's problems, especially when the real problems are far-reaching and complex. Myself and the rest of the staff are working on these problems, and I ask only that you be patient.
Your feedback is highly valued of course, and you are welcome to argue any point as long as it is done constructively.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
thanks for posting this. i can't speak for everyone, but to me it speaks volumes. if there is anything i can do as a player, or we can do as a community, to help you guys - then ask. some of us feel very attached to this game, and helping would be community service that i wouldn't mind paying.
Listing of the Mortals!
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
[50 Pal] Gavry -Arbiter- Excidium Umbra (Human)
[48 Enc] Aelindur Kar'Edhel - Twilight Raven (Grey Elf) (RP)
[49 Sha] Nlariar Shadoweagle - Twilight Raven (Barbarian) (RP)
[41 Enc] Kwirl Karphys }-BootLicker-{ Shades of Twilight (Human) (RP)
[45 Inv] Ashod - Ekahuei of Tel'Quessir (Grey Elf) (RP)
[50 Sha] Colje }-Enlightened-{ Shades of Twilight (Barbarian)
[50 Inv] Oteb }-Scorcher-{ Shades of Twilight (Human)
[46 Cle] Beern -Drunken Gospel- Excidium Umbra (Dwarf)
[50 Bar] Gurns (Half-Elf) (RP)
[50 Cle] Glahir Nightglade - Elder Council of Tel'Quessir (Grey Elf)
[46 Dru] Aaernn (Grey Elf)
[47 Inv] Jobobo (Gnome)
[50 War] Vahok }-Meatshield-{ Shades of Twilight (Barbarian)
[43 Inv] Tsaen (Human)
[50 Inv] Suimar Nightglade - Maverick of Tel'Quessir (Grey Elf) (RP)
------------------
this is our group
------------------
Vahok is in an excellent condition.
his form is blurred and difficult to make out!
his body is covered in dragon scales!
his form is displaced, and difficult to track!
he's encased in a shimmering globe!
------------------
this is our tank
------------------
too funny.
if you can't beat em . . . join em!
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
[50 Pal] Gavry -Arbiter- Excidium Umbra (Human)
[48 Enc] Aelindur Kar'Edhel - Twilight Raven (Grey Elf) (RP)
[49 Sha] Nlariar Shadoweagle - Twilight Raven (Barbarian) (RP)
[41 Enc] Kwirl Karphys }-BootLicker-{ Shades of Twilight (Human) (RP)
[45 Inv] Ashod - Ekahuei of Tel'Quessir (Grey Elf) (RP)
[50 Sha] Colje }-Enlightened-{ Shades of Twilight (Barbarian)
[50 Inv] Oteb }-Scorcher-{ Shades of Twilight (Human)
[46 Cle] Beern -Drunken Gospel- Excidium Umbra (Dwarf)
[50 Bar] Gurns (Half-Elf) (RP)
[50 Cle] Glahir Nightglade - Elder Council of Tel'Quessir (Grey Elf)
[46 Dru] Aaernn (Grey Elf)
[47 Inv] Jobobo (Gnome)
[50 War] Vahok }-Meatshield-{ Shades of Twilight (Barbarian)
[43 Inv] Tsaen (Human)
[50 Inv] Suimar Nightglade - Maverick of Tel'Quessir (Grey Elf) (RP)
------------------
this is our group
------------------
Vahok is in an excellent condition.
his form is blurred and difficult to make out!
his body is covered in dragon scales!
his form is displaced, and difficult to track!
he's encased in a shimmering globe!
------------------
this is our tank
------------------
too funny.
if you can't beat em . . . join em!
-
Xisiqomelir
- Sojourner
- Posts: 870
- Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2002 5:01 am
- Location: Ixarkon
- Contact:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Shevarash:
<B>Invokers are not going to be removed.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
We.....won?
.
.
.
.
We won! We won!
------------------
"I know you like to believe fairy tales about how rude and unfair evils are, but keep them on your side of Baldur's Gate."
<B>Invokers are not going to be removed.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
We.....won?
.
.
.
.
We won! We won!
------------------
"I know you like to believe fairy tales about how rude and unfair evils are, but keep them on your side of Baldur's Gate."
* tease *
Ashod starts casting an offensive spell called 'fell frost'.
< 907h/796H 121v/122V >
< > You start chanting...
< 907h/796H 121v/122V >
< >
Vahok deflects an angry magman's blow, and strikes back at an angry magman!
Vahok attacks an angry magman, landing a single hit.
< 907h/796H 121v/122V >
< >
Tsaen starts casting an offensive spell.
< 907h/796H 121v/122V >
< >
Casting: fell frost *
< 906h/796H 121v/122V >
< >
Gurns assists Vahok heroically.
Gurns barely pierces an angry magman.
< 906h/796H 121v/122V >
< >
Casting: fell frost
< 906h/796H 121v/122V >
< >
Ashod completes his spell...
Ashod utters the words, 'fell frost'
The magic cold cast by Ashod makes an angry magman scream in pain.
Ashod's vortex of vicious fell frost engulfs an angry magman ripping and tearing him with frozen shards.
An angry magman's limbs begin to slow down from the vortex's intense cold.
gsay An angry magman's moves are slowed
< 906h/796H 121v/122V >
< >
You complete your spell...
Your magical cold makes an angry magman howl in pain.
Your vortex of vicious fell frost engulfs an angry magman ripping and tearing him with frozen shards.
Suimar group-says 'An angry magman's has been Sloooooowed!'
< 905h/796H 122v/122V >
< > cast 'fell' magman
Tsaen completes his spell...
Tsaen utters the words, 'fell frost'
The magic cold cast by Tsaen makes an angry magman scream in pain.
Tsaen's vortex of vicious fell frost engulfs an angry magman ripping and tearing him with frozen shards.
< 905h/796H 122v/122V >
< >
Aelindur group-says 'fiend north'
< 905h/796H 122v/122V >
< >
An angry magman dodges Gurns's attack.
Gurns attacks an angry magman, landing a single hit.
Vahok parries an angry magman's lunge at him.
Vahok attacks an angry magman, landing two hits.
Ashod starts casting an offensive spell.
< 904h/796H 122v/122V >
< > You group-say 'An angry magman's moves are slowed'
< 904h/796H 122v/122V >
< > Colje starts casting an offensive spell.
You start chanting...
< 904h/796H 122v/122V >
< >
Musical notes emanating from Gurns fill the area with magic.
Glahir group-says 'quick kill'
Jobobo starts casting an offensive spell.
< 904h/796H 122v/122V >
< >
Tsaen starts casting an offensive spell called 'fell frost'.
< 903h/796H 122v/122V >
< >
Casting: fell frost *
< 903h/796H 122v/122V >
< >
Casting: fell frost
Ashod completes his spell...
Ashod utters the words, 'fell frost'
The magic cold cast by Ashod makes an angry magman scream in pain.
Ashod's vortex of vicious fell frost engulfs an angry magman ripping and tearing him with frozen shards.
< 903h/796H 122v/122V >
< >
Colje completes his spell...
Colje utters the words, 'gsufuh xgruqt'
An angry magman's body convulses with pain inflicted by Colje.
You complete your spell...
Your magical cold makes an angry magman howl in pain.
Your vortex of vicious fell frost engulfs an angry magman ripping and tearing him with frozen shards.
< 902h/796H 122v/122V >
< T: Vahok TC: excellent E: magman EC: awful >
Jobobo completes his spell...
Jobobo utters the words, 'fell frost'
The magic cold cast by Jobobo makes an angry magman scream in pain.
An angry magman slumps to the ground.
Jobobo's vortex of vicious fell frost engulfs an angry magman who shatters from the sudden, intense cold.
an angry magman is dead! R.I.P.
An angry magman slumps to the ground.
You receive your share of experience.
get coins corpse
Your blood freezes as you hear the rattling death cry of an angry magman.
it was 4sec worth of fight
and yeah suimar was slacking so i had to cast second spell:P
UPDATE: I dare not to post fight with imix bc miac could change his mind
[This message has been edited by oteb (edited 12-01-2002).]
[This message has been edited by oteb (edited 12-01-2002).]
Ashod starts casting an offensive spell called 'fell frost'.
< 907h/796H 121v/122V >
< > You start chanting...
< 907h/796H 121v/122V >
< >
Vahok deflects an angry magman's blow, and strikes back at an angry magman!
Vahok attacks an angry magman, landing a single hit.
< 907h/796H 121v/122V >
< >
Tsaen starts casting an offensive spell.
< 907h/796H 121v/122V >
< >
Casting: fell frost *
< 906h/796H 121v/122V >
< >
Gurns assists Vahok heroically.
Gurns barely pierces an angry magman.
< 906h/796H 121v/122V >
< >
Casting: fell frost
< 906h/796H 121v/122V >
< >
Ashod completes his spell...
Ashod utters the words, 'fell frost'
The magic cold cast by Ashod makes an angry magman scream in pain.
Ashod's vortex of vicious fell frost engulfs an angry magman ripping and tearing him with frozen shards.
An angry magman's limbs begin to slow down from the vortex's intense cold.
gsay An angry magman's moves are slowed
< 906h/796H 121v/122V >
< >
You complete your spell...
Your magical cold makes an angry magman howl in pain.
Your vortex of vicious fell frost engulfs an angry magman ripping and tearing him with frozen shards.
Suimar group-says 'An angry magman's has been Sloooooowed!'
< 905h/796H 122v/122V >
< > cast 'fell' magman
Tsaen completes his spell...
Tsaen utters the words, 'fell frost'
The magic cold cast by Tsaen makes an angry magman scream in pain.
Tsaen's vortex of vicious fell frost engulfs an angry magman ripping and tearing him with frozen shards.
< 905h/796H 122v/122V >
< >
Aelindur group-says 'fiend north'
< 905h/796H 122v/122V >
< >
An angry magman dodges Gurns's attack.
Gurns attacks an angry magman, landing a single hit.
Vahok parries an angry magman's lunge at him.
Vahok attacks an angry magman, landing two hits.
Ashod starts casting an offensive spell.
< 904h/796H 122v/122V >
< > You group-say 'An angry magman's moves are slowed'
< 904h/796H 122v/122V >
< > Colje starts casting an offensive spell.
You start chanting...
< 904h/796H 122v/122V >
< >
Musical notes emanating from Gurns fill the area with magic.
Glahir group-says 'quick kill'
Jobobo starts casting an offensive spell.
< 904h/796H 122v/122V >
< >
Tsaen starts casting an offensive spell called 'fell frost'.
< 903h/796H 122v/122V >
< >
Casting: fell frost *
< 903h/796H 122v/122V >
< >
Casting: fell frost
Ashod completes his spell...
Ashod utters the words, 'fell frost'
The magic cold cast by Ashod makes an angry magman scream in pain.
Ashod's vortex of vicious fell frost engulfs an angry magman ripping and tearing him with frozen shards.
< 903h/796H 122v/122V >
< >
Colje completes his spell...
Colje utters the words, 'gsufuh xgruqt'
An angry magman's body convulses with pain inflicted by Colje.
You complete your spell...
Your magical cold makes an angry magman howl in pain.
Your vortex of vicious fell frost engulfs an angry magman ripping and tearing him with frozen shards.
< 902h/796H 122v/122V >
< T: Vahok TC: excellent E: magman EC: awful >
Jobobo completes his spell...
Jobobo utters the words, 'fell frost'
The magic cold cast by Jobobo makes an angry magman scream in pain.
An angry magman slumps to the ground.
Jobobo's vortex of vicious fell frost engulfs an angry magman who shatters from the sudden, intense cold.
an angry magman is dead! R.I.P.
An angry magman slumps to the ground.
You receive your share of experience.
get coins corpse
Your blood freezes as you hear the rattling death cry of an angry magman.
it was 4sec worth of fight
and yeah suimar was slacking so i had to cast second spell:P
UPDATE: I dare not to post fight with imix bc miac could change his mind
[This message has been edited by oteb (edited 12-01-2002).]
[This message has been edited by oteb (edited 12-01-2002).]
5 voker groups are my dreams come true.
If anyone thinks vokers aren't needed to zone, take a look at what happened when I tried MeleeBrass with only enc and no other mages.
------------------
Kiaransalee responds to your petition with 'look on the bright side, I just saved you some corpses. We all know you would have gotten spanked'
If anyone thinks vokers aren't needed to zone, take a look at what happened when I tried MeleeBrass with only enc and no other mages.
------------------
Kiaransalee responds to your petition with 'look on the bright side, I just saved you some corpses. We all know you would have gotten spanked'
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by moritheil:
<B>If anyone thinks vokers aren't needed to zone, take a look at what happened when I tried MeleeBrass with only enc and no other mages.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Invokers aren't needed to zone. Imphras used to do everything !invoker and did just fine. Maybe invokers make things easier and faster, but not having them doesn't mean you turn back. Tanks, healers and buffers are necessary, the other classes are just icing on the cake. If invokers WERE necessary to zone, then I might think they needed to be removed and the role of melee classes reconsidered.
<B>If anyone thinks vokers aren't needed to zone, take a look at what happened when I tried MeleeBrass with only enc and no other mages.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Invokers aren't needed to zone. Imphras used to do everything !invoker and did just fine. Maybe invokers make things easier and faster, but not having them doesn't mean you turn back. Tanks, healers and buffers are necessary, the other classes are just icing on the cake. If invokers WERE necessary to zone, then I might think they needed to be removed and the role of melee classes reconsidered.
-
Xisiqomelir
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by moritheil:
<B>5 voker groups are my dreams come true.
If anyone thinks vokers aren't needed to zone, take a look at what happened when I tried MeleeBrass with only enc and no other mages.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Are you going to pretend that it being MoriBrass as well played no significant role?
(EDIT: the spelling, the spelling)
------------------
"I know you like to believe fairy tales about how rude and unfair evils are, but keep them on your side of Baldur's Gate."
[This message has been edited by Xisiqomelir (edited 12-01-2002).]
<B>5 voker groups are my dreams come true.
If anyone thinks vokers aren't needed to zone, take a look at what happened when I tried MeleeBrass with only enc and no other mages.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Are you going to pretend that it being MoriBrass as well played no significant role?
(EDIT: the spelling, the spelling)
------------------
"I know you like to believe fairy tales about how rude and unfair evils are, but keep them on your side of Baldur's Gate."
[This message has been edited by Xisiqomelir (edited 12-01-2002).]
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Guest
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Shevarash:
<B>Invokers are not going to be removed.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Instead we're going to remove enchanters, muhahahaha.
NOT!
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Azuth God of Wizardry and Majiks
Miax : (51) [ Im totally addicted to the mud again.. ]
<B>Invokers are not going to be removed.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Instead we're going to remove enchanters, muhahahaha.
NOT!
------------------
Azuth God of Wizardry and Majiks
Miax : (51) [ Im totally addicted to the mud again.. ]
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Xisiqomelir
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This silly thread derailed by the Voices of Reason. GJ's all round.
Now we can help the poor scarred and battered thread find new life, as My Private Stomping Ground
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"I know you like to believe fairy tales about how rude and unfair evils are, but keep them on your side of Baldur's Gate."
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Xisiqomelir:
This silly thread derailed by the Voices of Reason. GJ's all round.
Now we can help the poor scarred and battered thread find new life, as My Private Stomping Ground
[/B]</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Snicker.. Perhaps! Of course the gods could always just nerf invokers to the point of uselessness while still keeping their promise. One can always hope. Though after what i heard today about imix dying in only a few rounds in the group that had 5 invokers, i wouldn't be surprised if the gods had their hand forced...
Corth
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Goddamned slippery mage.
This silly thread derailed by the Voices of Reason. GJ's all round.
Now we can help the poor scarred and battered thread find new life, as My Private Stomping Ground
[/B]</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Snicker.. Perhaps! Of course the gods could always just nerf invokers to the point of uselessness while still keeping their promise. One can always hope. Though after what i heard today about imix dying in only a few rounds in the group that had 5 invokers, i wouldn't be surprised if the gods had their hand forced...
Corth
------------------
Goddamned slippery mage.
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Xisiqomelir
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Corth:
<B> Snicker.. Perhaps! Of course the gods could always just nerf invokers to the point of uselessness while still keeping their promise. One can always hope. Though after what i heard today about imix dying in only a few rounds in the group that had 5 invokers, i wouldn't be surprised if the gods had their hand forced...
Corth
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Nothing wrong with some cuts to areas, it's what nearly every rational person has said. Some people (Yayaril/Jaznolg) think everything's fine as it is. Other people (Me/Zoldren/Cherzra) think areas could stand a little trimming, although we disagree how that should be implemented, Cherz going for saves to be linked, Zold saying nonvoker areas should be cut, me going for across the board reduction. You, Corth, had a fairly drastic idea, but I'm willing to listen, even though I personally disagree, because it's fair. Sadly, the majority appears to be more interested in punishing current invokers than engaging in constructive debate.
Of course, you realize that the title of this thread no longer applies, and it is now just a place to put pointless pictures....
Alas, poor Zummi! I knew him well
------------------
"I know you like to believe fairy tales about how rude and unfair evils are, but keep them on your side of Baldur's Gate."
<B> Snicker.. Perhaps! Of course the gods could always just nerf invokers to the point of uselessness while still keeping their promise. One can always hope. Though after what i heard today about imix dying in only a few rounds in the group that had 5 invokers, i wouldn't be surprised if the gods had their hand forced...
Corth
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Nothing wrong with some cuts to areas, it's what nearly every rational person has said. Some people (Yayaril/Jaznolg) think everything's fine as it is. Other people (Me/Zoldren/Cherzra) think areas could stand a little trimming, although we disagree how that should be implemented, Cherz going for saves to be linked, Zold saying nonvoker areas should be cut, me going for across the board reduction. You, Corth, had a fairly drastic idea, but I'm willing to listen, even though I personally disagree, because it's fair. Sadly, the majority appears to be more interested in punishing current invokers than engaging in constructive debate.
Of course, you realize that the title of this thread no longer applies, and it is now just a place to put pointless pictures....
Alas, poor Zummi! I knew him well
------------------
"I know you like to believe fairy tales about how rude and unfair evils are, but keep them on your side of Baldur's Gate."
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ashiwi:
Invokers aren't needed to zone. Imphras used to do everything !invoker and did just fine. Maybe invokers make things easier and faster, but not having them doesn't mean you turn back. Tanks, healers and buffers are necessary, the other classes are just icing on the cake. If invokers WERE necessary to zone, then I might think they needed to be removed and the role of melee classes reconsidered.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
OK, you bring up a valid point. Maybe having a resser or ghealer would have helped as well. But I still think I could have had 5 ressers and still not done an effective job with the zone. Rogue/ranger damage output just can't compete. Especially since they need globes to deal damage at all.
(MeleeBrass, folks. Melee.)
------------------
Kiaransalee responds to your petition with 'look on the bright side, I just saved you some corpses. We all know you would have gotten spanked'
Invokers aren't needed to zone. Imphras used to do everything !invoker and did just fine. Maybe invokers make things easier and faster, but not having them doesn't mean you turn back. Tanks, healers and buffers are necessary, the other classes are just icing on the cake. If invokers WERE necessary to zone, then I might think they needed to be removed and the role of melee classes reconsidered.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
OK, you bring up a valid point. Maybe having a resser or ghealer would have helped as well. But I still think I could have had 5 ressers and still not done an effective job with the zone. Rogue/ranger damage output just can't compete. Especially since they need globes to deal damage at all.
(MeleeBrass, folks. Melee.)
------------------
Kiaransalee responds to your petition with 'look on the bright side, I just saved you some corpses. We all know you would have gotten spanked'
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Xisiqomelir
- Sojourner
- Posts: 870
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- Contact:
*hijacked*
Anyone remember when outcast Kanthas lead his first Brass. Cleared the all the eq mobs, but skipped past a lot of guards. Anyway, we are sitting outside the Sultan room waiting for someone to get back from AFK and I hit " n" instead of "l n". Kanthas goes and dies trying to grab my corpse so rest of group is left to get out of Brass without a glober or their main tank. Oh what fun memories!
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Marforp / Sasdor
and now the new improved Pofas!!
Anyone remember when outcast Kanthas lead his first Brass. Cleared the all the eq mobs, but skipped past a lot of guards. Anyway, we are sitting outside the Sultan room waiting for someone to get back from AFK and I hit " n" instead of "l n". Kanthas goes and dies trying to grab my corpse so rest of group is left to get out of Brass without a glober or their main tank. Oh what fun memories!
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Marforp / Sasdor
and now the new improved Pofas!!
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Xisiqomelir:
<B>I'm sorry, but !ghealer !resser sounds more like MoriBrass than MeleeBrass.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That does it...
I'm going to have to level my ebil and show you all what MoriBrass is about!
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Kiaransalee responds to your petition with 'look on the bright side, I just saved you some corpses. We all know you would have gotten spanked'
<B>I'm sorry, but !ghealer !resser sounds more like MoriBrass than MeleeBrass.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That does it...
I'm going to have to level my ebil and show you all what MoriBrass is about!
------------------
Kiaransalee responds to your petition with 'look on the bright side, I just saved you some corpses. We all know you would have gotten spanked'
-
Xisiqomelir
- Sojourner
- Posts: 870
- Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2002 5:01 am
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- Contact:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Marforp:
<B> *hijacked*
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
In case you missed it, this is MY stomping ground now! No way I'm letting you hijack without putting up a fight.
------------------
Thus spake Shevarash: "Invokers are not going to be removed"
<B> *hijacked*
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
In case you missed it, this is MY stomping ground now! No way I'm letting you hijack without putting up a fight.
------------------
Thus spake Shevarash: "Invokers are not going to be removed"
You guys are all over the map and so is this post, be warned
if invokers should be removed due to their one dimensional use (damage dealer) then couldn't the same thing be said for rangers? it isn't that invokers are 1D its more that they are idle during what is one of the more time consuming tasks on sojourn, "spellup!" Invokers deal damage but they also provide minor spells, taxi service, and certain spell side effects (blind etc)
This being said, invokers would become much less 1D if gate/relocate was removed from certain other mages (why are necros the only ones without) and other casting classes lost some of their spell side effects (in particular stun) while invokers gained additional ones. After being upgraded in this manner invoker damage could then be reduced to an approriate level without nerfing them into oblivion.
This being said there is another problem which is melee vs spells. If rangers are the melee equivalent of invokers then why are they always complaining about lack of groups. It isn't about damage (I've talked w/ imms about rogue vs voker damage so I believe that the numbers are fairly close overall) but I would say that the reason why spell damage is >> melee is because a hitter requires 2,3, or even up to 10 support spells while most casters get 1 (vit) or 2 (vit/stone) 99% of the time which is multiplied by the number of players of each type in the group
------------------
if invokers should be removed due to their one dimensional use (damage dealer) then couldn't the same thing be said for rangers? it isn't that invokers are 1D its more that they are idle during what is one of the more time consuming tasks on sojourn, "spellup!" Invokers deal damage but they also provide minor spells, taxi service, and certain spell side effects (blind etc)
This being said, invokers would become much less 1D if gate/relocate was removed from certain other mages (why are necros the only ones without) and other casting classes lost some of their spell side effects (in particular stun) while invokers gained additional ones. After being upgraded in this manner invoker damage could then be reduced to an approriate level without nerfing them into oblivion.
This being said there is another problem which is melee vs spells. If rangers are the melee equivalent of invokers then why are they always complaining about lack of groups. It isn't about damage (I've talked w/ imms about rogue vs voker damage so I believe that the numbers are fairly close overall) but I would say that the reason why spell damage is >> melee is because a hitter requires 2,3, or even up to 10 support spells while most casters get 1 (vit) or 2 (vit/stone) 99% of the time which is multiplied by the number of players of each type in the group
------------------
Bah, you all talking about how big and powerful invokers are, but did you see this?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by oteb:
<B>Gurns assists Vahok heroically.
Gurns barely pierces an angry magman.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I hit him! I hit him! *bounce*
And while singing, too! *strut*
That's what's important, not these silly casters. *nog me*
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by oteb:
<B>Gurns assists Vahok heroically.
Gurns barely pierces an angry magman.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I hit him! I hit him! *bounce*
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Musical notes emanating from Gurns fill the area with magic.</font>
And while singing, too! *strut*
That's what's important, not these silly casters. *nog me*
Invokers are TOTALLY needed in some high level zones. If you can't kill a beholder in Hulburg in X rounds you can just kiss your ass goodbye. If you use melee you're just asking to get killed, lose exp/time. All you gotta do is make it so melee can attack faster but at a price.
------------------
Nokie group-says 'what a rip-off, I spend months incapacitating navy seamen and doing 28,000 bandages and now we get tons of practice here in bronze citadel'
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Nokie group-says 'what a rip-off, I spend months incapacitating navy seamen and doing 28,000 bandages and now we get tons of practice here in bronze citadel'
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gurns:
<B>Bah, you all talking about how big and powerful invokers are, but did you see this?
You tell them Gurns! Vokers suck!
------------------
Meatshield
<B>Bah, you all talking about how big and powerful invokers are, but did you see this?
Originally posted by oteb:
Gurns assists Vahok heroically.
Gurns barely pierces an angry magman.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I hit him! I hit him! *bounce*
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">[b]Musical notes emanating from Gurns fill the area with magic.</font>
And while singing, too! *strut*
That's what's important, not these silly casters. *nog me*[/B]
You tell them Gurns! Vokers suck!
------------------
Meatshield
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Xisiqomelir
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Orvik, you missed the boat man. Reasonable discussion in all it's varied and wondrous forms ceased here days ago.
Gurns, OMGOMGOMG, u R soooooo 0v3rp0wered! Bards are teh sexxor. if it wuz up to me, i would move to have ur pfile deleted, cos i got Song of Heroism pipi envy or sumthing [/Example]
Anyway, the issue of true importance is that you all keep attempting to put Signal into this, my domain of Noise. Stop fiddling with the ratio!
.....chicken?
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Thus spake Shevarash: "Invokers are not going to be removed"
Gurns, OMGOMGOMG, u R soooooo 0v3rp0wered! Bards are teh sexxor. if it wuz up to me, i would move to have ur pfile deleted, cos i got Song of Heroism pipi envy or sumthing [/Example]
Anyway, the issue of true importance is that you all keep attempting to put Signal into this, my domain of Noise. Stop fiddling with the ratio!
.....chicken?
------------------
Thus spake Shevarash: "Invokers are not going to be removed"
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Azenilsee
- Sojourner
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- Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
- Contact:
Sooner or later I knew I had to respond to this thread. But, in the spirit of Xisi's brilliant posts, I'm gonna post a picture of a Turducken instead.
Thanks to John Madden for explaining how to carve one of these beasts on Monday Night Football.
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Azenilsee - Faern Dalharil - Orbdrin D'Oloth
Thanks to John Madden for explaining how to carve one of these beasts on Monday Night Football.
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Azenilsee - Faern Dalharil - Orbdrin D'Oloth
Yes, reasonable posts stopped here long ago. When people started taking everything personally, getting all bent out of shape, reading too far into things, trying to cover their tracks and look like they didn't say certain things, make fun of anyone that disagrees with their extremely varied thoughts on a single topic, then making fools out of themselves by actually declaring a 'stomping ground'.
Thumbs down. Way down.
Have fun flaming me, but hey, I just state the truth.
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Malacar - omg ymir!
Thumbs down. Way down.
Have fun flaming me, but hey, I just state the truth.
------------------
Malacar - omg ymir!
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Xisiqomelir
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Malacar:
<B>Yes, reasonable posts stopped here long ago. When people started taking everything personally, getting all bent out of shape, reading too far into things, trying to cover their tracks and look like they didn't say certain things, make fun of anyone that disagrees with their extremely varied thoughts on a single topic, then making fools out of themselves by actually declaring a 'stomping ground'.
Thumbs down. Way down.
Have fun flaming me, but hey, I just state the truth.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I haven't flamed you here at all, I just said that you didn't read my posts, which you didn't, were resorting to ad hominem attacks, which you did, and in general preferred being rude to talking things over sensibly. Anyway, this thread got a god response which should be be good for a while at least (see sig), so speaking personally, I'm one happy camper.
------------------
Thus spake Shevarash: "Invokers are not going to be removed"
<B>Yes, reasonable posts stopped here long ago. When people started taking everything personally, getting all bent out of shape, reading too far into things, trying to cover their tracks and look like they didn't say certain things, make fun of anyone that disagrees with their extremely varied thoughts on a single topic, then making fools out of themselves by actually declaring a 'stomping ground'.
Thumbs down. Way down.
Have fun flaming me, but hey, I just state the truth.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I haven't flamed you here at all, I just said that you didn't read my posts, which you didn't, were resorting to ad hominem attacks, which you did, and in general preferred being rude to talking things over sensibly. Anyway, this thread got a god response which should be be good for a while at least (see sig), so speaking personally, I'm one happy camper.
------------------
Thus spake Shevarash: "Invokers are not going to be removed"
You make me laugh Xisi.. Keep living in your little world where you're always right and everyone else is always wrong.
Contrary to your belief, stating the truth isn't an attack.. But I guess you don't care about that, as long as you get your way and can rub it in everyone's faces repeatedly, right?
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Malacar - omg ymir!
Contrary to your belief, stating the truth isn't an attack.. But I guess you don't care about that, as long as you get your way and can rub it in everyone's faces repeatedly, right?
------------------
Malacar - omg ymir!
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Xisiqomelir
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simplynothere@yahoo.com
Everyone else needn't suffer simply because the two of us disagree.
(Yes it is an insta-generated mailbox, you think anyone would be silly enough to put their REAL email up?)
------------------
Thus spake Shevarash: "Invokers are not going to be removed"
Everyone else needn't suffer simply because the two of us disagree.
(Yes it is an insta-generated mailbox, you think anyone would be silly enough to put their REAL email up?)
------------------
Thus spake Shevarash: "Invokers are not going to be removed"
-
Xisiqomelir
- Sojourner
- Posts: 870
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Glorishan:
<B> Actually, I, a cleric for many years now, am a big advocate for reducing the amount of hps recovered by a full heal. Clerics need a downgrade. It's the class I "like" as you put it, and yet I am not quite in my desire to have their abilities reduced. People 'do' complain about dscales, though you seem to gloss over it. People complain that tanks aren't tanks without the help of buff spells like dscales. People complain about invokers because with the addition of an invoker in the group (newbie power leveled to 50 or otherwise), fights that could be very challenging are steam rolled with very little use of strategy, but rather with just brute force.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
this is why i dont cast healing spells. i'm just making it more challenging. you guys owe me big for making this game so exciting for you. i expect a christmas gift from everyone of you's guys.
<B> Actually, I, a cleric for many years now, am a big advocate for reducing the amount of hps recovered by a full heal. Clerics need a downgrade. It's the class I "like" as you put it, and yet I am not quite in my desire to have their abilities reduced. People 'do' complain about dscales, though you seem to gloss over it. People complain that tanks aren't tanks without the help of buff spells like dscales. People complain about invokers because with the addition of an invoker in the group (newbie power leveled to 50 or otherwise), fights that could be very challenging are steam rolled with very little use of strategy, but rather with just brute force.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
this is why i dont cast healing spells. i'm just making it more challenging. you guys owe me big for making this game so exciting for you. i expect a christmas gift from everyone of you's guys.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Yasden:
<B>especially since inferno and swarm are both common knowledge now.
Deathmagnet</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Can you finish Inferno for me. people are slacking and i wanna cast it.
<B>especially since inferno and swarm are both common knowledge now.
Deathmagnet</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Can you finish Inferno for me. people are slacking and i wanna cast it.
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