Public Service Announcement

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Public Service Announcement

Postby Guest » Tue Dec 03, 2002 4:27 am

Think about this:
a. The number of physicians in the US is 700,000.

b. Accidental deaths caused by Physicians per year are 120,000.

c. Accidental deaths per physician are 0.171.
(Source: US Dept. of Health & Human Services)


Then think about this:

a. The number of gun owners in the US is 80,000,000.

b. The number of accidental gun deaths per year (all age groups) is 1,500.

c. The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is .0000188.

Statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners.

FACT: NOT EVERYONE HAS A GUN, BUT ALMOST EVERYONE HAS AT LEAST ONE DOCTOR.

Please alert your friends to this alarming threat. We must ban doctors before this gets out of hand.

As a public health measure, I have withheld the statistics on lawyers for fear that the shock could cause people to seek medical attention.....................!

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Gargauth the Outcast
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Postby Gort » Tue Dec 03, 2002 7:56 pm

ROFLMAO!

I'm a gun owner, and I hate going to anyone who's just "practicing" at their profession. I want them to get it right, get it down pat before I seek their services.

Oh, and in 30 years of owning guns, I've never shot anyone :P

Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Guns are merely a tool like knives, they are inanimate, and without feelings of their own. Unless someone were to suggest that every gun was possessed by evil spirits or something..... hehe

Toplack



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Postby Keran » Tue Dec 03, 2002 8:13 pm

Bumper Sticker Ideas:

People don't kill doctors. Doctors kill people.

This car protected by Dr. Kavorchian (sp?)

Toarn

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Postby Kasula » Tue Dec 03, 2002 8:30 pm

Word!
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Postby Zrax » Tue Dec 03, 2002 9:00 pm

Do you have stats for lives saved by guns vs physicians out of curiosity?

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Postby moritheil » Tue Dec 03, 2002 9:20 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Zrax:
<B>Do you have stats for lives saved by guns vs physicians out of curiosity?

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mwahahaha. Highly debatable.

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Postby Gyrx » Tue Dec 03, 2002 9:39 pm

omg it's a zraz
Guest

Postby Guest » Tue Dec 03, 2002 9:42 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Zrax:
<B>Do you have stats for lives saved by guns vs physicians out of curiosity?

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hrm... let's see. How many of the people who are saved by doctors die? I would guess that 100% of them do.
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Postby thanuk » Tue Dec 03, 2002 9:49 pm

Guns don't kill people, I kill people.

And YOU can count. On me waiting for YOU in the parking lot!

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Thanuk Pantherclaw
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Postby Zagaz » Tue Dec 03, 2002 10:09 pm

Here is a link to the debate on this topic that was already started and lasted quite some time, it certainly was fun to read!

http://www.sojourn3.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000928.html

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Postby Ashiwi » Tue Dec 03, 2002 10:45 pm

Garg's announcement would probably be a perfect example of how statistics can be skewed to prove any point. Perhaps the argument should be about that?


Oooooh, or to be a little more accurate about this particular topic and the point about statistics, perhaps these numbers should be questioned, instead?

How many doctors accidentally killed their patients when giving them a sponge bath vs. how many people accidentally shot themselves or somebody else while cleaning their gun?

How many doctors accidentally killed their patients during surgery vs. how many accidentally killed their human target when shooting to wound, instead?

How many doctors intentionally killed their patients vs. how many people with guns intentionally shot and killed other people?

How many of those death statistics among doctors included fatally ill/wounded patients for whom the plug was pulled?

How many of those death statistics among doctors included patients who misread prescriptions and overdosed themselves?

How many of those death statistics among doctors included patients who died on the operating table due to massive trauma or fatal illness and were given little chance of surviving the surgery anyway?

I'm sure there are a lot of other trivial bits of information which weren't deemed "necessary" when those statistics were published for this purpose. Statistics are a great tool for proving anything you want to prove. Find yourself a gullible enough audience and you can get people to believe anything by tossing out official sounding numbers.
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Postby Vahok » Tue Dec 03, 2002 11:03 pm

Stats are for idiots....3 outta 4 people know that !

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Meatshield
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Postby muma » Wed Dec 04, 2002 12:21 am

Rock on!

and why hasn't Cherzra posted here yet?

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Postby sok » Wed Dec 04, 2002 1:00 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ashiwi:
<B>Garg's announcement would probably be a perfect example of how statistics can be skewed to prove any point. Perhaps the argument should be about that?


Oooooh, or to be a little more accurate about this particular topic and the point about statistics, perhaps these numbers should be questioned, instead?

How many doctors accidentally killed their patients when giving them a sponge bath vs. how many people accidentally shot themselves or somebody else while cleaning their gun?

How many doctors accidentally killed their patients during surgery vs. how many accidentally killed their human target when shooting to wound, instead?

How many doctors intentionally killed their patients vs. how many people with guns intentionally shot and killed other people?

How many of those death statistics among doctors included fatally ill/wounded patients for whom the plug was pulled?

How many of those death statistics among doctors included patients who misread prescriptions and overdosed themselves?

How many of those death statistics among doctors included patients who died on the operating table due to massive trauma or fatal illness and were given little chance of surviving the surgery anyway?

I'm sure there are a lot of other trivial bits of information which weren't deemed "necessary" when those statistics were published for this purpose. Statistics are a great tool for proving anything you want to prove. Find yourself a gullible enough audience and you can get people to believe anything by tossing out official sounding numbers.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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if the research is done correctly, statistics will come very close to actual numbers. dont discount all research/statistics.
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Postby Galkar » Wed Dec 04, 2002 1:13 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gargamel:
Think about this:
a. The number of physicians in the US is 700,000.

b. Accidental deaths caused by Physicians per year are 120,000.

c. Accidental deaths per physician are 0.171.
(Source: US Dept. of Health & Human Services)


Then think about this:

a. The number of gun owners in the US is 80,000,000.

b. The number of accidental gun deaths per year (all age groups) is 1,500.

c. The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is .0000188.

Statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners.

FACT: NOT EVERYONE HAS A GUN, BUT ALMOST EVERYONE HAS AT LEAST ONE DOCTOR.

Please alert your friends to this alarming threat. We must ban doctors before this gets out of hand.

As a public health measure, I have withheld the statistics on lawyers for fear that the shock could cause people to seek medical attention.....................!

</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The danger in guns isn't only the accidental deaths due to them, it's the murders due to guns as well. Thus these statistics aren't "fully" accurate when making the assumption that doctors are more dangerous than guns Image

Anyone have the stats for accidental + purposeful deaths due to guns?

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[This message has been edited by Galkar (edited 12-03-2002).]
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Postby Xisiqomelir » Wed Dec 04, 2002 1:20 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by sok:


if the research is done correctly, statistics will come very close to actual numbers. </font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Comedy: Gold


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Postby moritheil » Wed Dec 04, 2002 3:13 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Galkar:
<B>Anyone have the stats for accidental + purposeful deaths due to guns?
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Should that include those that survived being shot but died under medical care?

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Postby muma » Wed Dec 04, 2002 3:14 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Galkar:
<B> The danger in guns isn't only the accidental deaths due to them, it's the murders due to guns as well. Thus these statistics aren't "fully" accurate when making the assumption that doctors are more dangerous than guns Image

Anyone have the stats for accidental + purposeful deaths due to guns?

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

but i think most people die from heart disease, or car accidents (IN the united states). one of those two.

so guns can't be bad if the largest percentage of people's death isn't from murder by guns and accidental deaths by guns.


heh, that reminds me. people murder not the actual guns. like thanuk said. he will kill you not his gun.

------------------
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-Kasula OOC: 'im kinda like a touch lamp... touch me in the right place and turn me on'
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Postby thanuk » Wed Dec 04, 2002 4:49 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ashiwi:
[B]
How many doctors accidentally killed their patients during surgery vs. how many accidentally killed their human target when shooting to wound, instead?

B]</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Who the hell shoots to wound!?! What the hell is wrong with you people anyway Image
morbid bastards.

NRA 1, Bambi's Mom 0


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Thanuk Pantherclaw
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Postby Yayaril » Wed Dec 04, 2002 5:04 am

I hate statistics: 80% of the time, I'm 95% bored.

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-Yayaril
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Postby Gerad » Wed Dec 04, 2002 4:06 pm

Do you know one of the biggest reasons we were never really attacked in any of our wars? One of course was naval superiority, but the other, was that there are 80 million gun owners in america. Kind of hard to attack a populace where there are so many SUVS and patriots who will die defending their country and have the guns to do it well.

Something to think about next time you hear someone spouting that we dont need guns.

-G

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Postby Sartorix » Wed Dec 04, 2002 4:31 pm

Anybody can make up fake statistics for anything. 14% of people know that.

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Disco
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Postby old depok » Wed Dec 04, 2002 4:46 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by muma:
<B> but i think most people die from heart disease, or car accidents (IN the united states). one of those two.

so guns can't be bad if the largest percentage of people's death isn't from murder by guns and accidental deaths by guns.


heh, that reminds me. people murder not the actual guns. like thanuk said. he will kill you not his gun.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not true if you are a black male below the age of 30. I believe that homicide is the leading cause of death among black males below the age of 30. Most of those are gun related deaths.

Why don't we compare the number of people killed by guns in countrys that restrict gun sales Vs. the US which doesn't?

Then compare the increase in mortality rate by guns vs the increase in the mortality rate "by" doctors for living in the US vs. say Switzerland?

I think what you will find is that there is a much great % increase in the chance of being killed in the US by a gun then the same % increased chance of "dieing while in the care of a doctor"


One of my favorite quotes is this one:

There are lies
There are BIG lies
and then there are statistics
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Postby Gurns » Wed Dec 04, 2002 5:13 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gerad:
<B>Do you know one of the biggest reasons we were never really attacked in any of our wars? One of course was naval superiority, but the other, was that there are 80 million gun owners in america. Kind of hard to attack a populace where there are so many SUVS and patriots who will die defending their country and have the guns to do it well.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Um. You hear this one a lot. It's bogus. First off, we were invaded in at least one war, the War of 1812. When the Brits had naval superiority, as it turns out.

Second, we fight enemies that are oceans away. It's hard to get an army across an ocean. (In 1812, besides naval superiority, the Brits also had a local presence.) Look at what the U.S. had to do in WWII, when we had to get our army across the oceans. And that was while our enemies were occupied with other enemies, so they couldn't devote all their resources to stopping our shipping. Look at the logistical effort it's taking to get our military to Iraq.

Third, do you honestly think a modern military is going to be put off by a buncha homeowners with (mostly) rifles, shotguns, and handguns? The British invaded in the War of 1812, when American civilians had weapons more or less equivalent to what the typical soldier carried. So that didn't deter them then, because the military had other weapons (e.g., cannon) that homeonwers didn't have. These days, the relative power of militaries vs. homeowners has increased (not even counting nuclear weapons). So if the reason to have weapons is to deter invasion, we all should have fully automatic weapons, grenade launders, anti-tank guns, and the like. And armored vehicles. It probably still wouldn't work as a deterrent (a trained army against a random bunch of homeowners? I know which side I'd bet on), but at least the invaders might have to give it some consideration.

Now, history shows that an armed populace using guerilla warfare tactics can make themselves a problem, once the country is occupied. But whether the invading army pulls out, ah, that's another question.
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Postby thanuk » Wed Dec 04, 2002 5:43 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gurns:
<B> Um. You hear this one a lot. It's bogus. First off, we were invaded in at least one war, the War of 1812. When the Brits had naval superiority, as it turns out.

Second, we fight enemies that are oceans away. It's hard to get an army across an ocean. (In 1812, besides naval superiority, the Brits also had a local presence.) Look at what the U.S. had to do in WWII, when we had to get our army across the oceans. And that was while our enemies were occupied with other enemies, so they couldn't devote all their resources to stopping our shipping. Look at the logistical effort it's taking to get our military to Iraq.

Third, do you honestly think a modern military is going to be put off by a buncha homeowners with (mostly) rifles, shotguns, and handguns? The British invaded in the War of 1812, when American civilians had weapons more or less equivalent to what the typical soldier carried. So that didn't deter them then, because the military had other weapons (e.g., cannon) that homeonwers didn't have. These days, the relative power of militaries vs. homeowners has increased (not even counting nuclear weapons). So if the reason to have weapons is to deter invasion, we all should have fully automatic weapons, grenade launders, anti-tank guns, and the like. And armored vehicles. It probably still wouldn't work as a deterrent (a trained army against a random bunch of homeowners? I know which side I'd bet on), but at least the invaders might have to give it some consideration.

Now, history shows that an armed populace using guerilla warfare tactics can make themselves a problem, once the country is occupied. But whether the invading army pulls out, ah, that's another question.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Watch the hunting channel, dude. Id be willing to bet that the weapons people in the U.S. use to mow down ducks with extreme prejudice are superior to the weapons used by 90% of the world's armies. An iraqi with a russian assault rifle from the early 80's vs. a drunken redneck in camouflage with a laser scope semi-automatic hunting rifle? Smart money's on the drunken hillbilly. Id also be willing to bet that the average american hunter has fired more shots, and shoots with greater accuracy, then our not-so-well trained enemies.
edit:
Ask Dakn about it, he's a crazy redneck.

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Thanuk Pantherclaw

[This message has been edited by thanuk (edited 12-04-2002).]
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Postby cherzra » Wed Dec 04, 2002 6:42 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gerad:
<B>Do you know one of the biggest reasons we were never really attacked in any of our wars? One of course was naval superiority, but the other, was that there are 80 million gun owners in america. Kind of hard to attack a populace where there are so many SUVS and patriots who will die defending their country and have the guns to do it well.

Something to think about next time you hear someone spouting that we dont need guns.

-G

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No you moron, the reason you were never invaded is because there was a big fucking ocean between you and everything else. Do you even think for one minute the Russians or Germans wouldn't have crushed you if you bordered on them?

How incredibly fucking naieve. You think you're tough? Ask former Yugoslavia about tough. Ask the Vietnamese about tough. Ask any occupied country in WW2 about tough. At least they'll know what they are talking about, because they lived through it. They fought back, fought with sticks and stones if they had to. You have nothing but a big damn mouth. But oh, you're so tough.

I'm all in favot of more guns in the US. I hope everyone over 10 gets one issued by the govermnent. Preferably a fully automatic machine gun.
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Postby Vahok » Wed Dec 04, 2002 6:48 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by cherzra:
<B> No you moron, the reason you were never invaded is because there was a big fucking ocean between you and everything else. Do you even think for one minute the Russians or Germans wouldn't have crushed you if you bordered on them?

How incredibly fucking naieve. You think you're tough? Ask former Yugoslavia about tough. Ask the Vietnamese about tough. Ask any occupied country in WW2 about tough. At least they'll know what they are talking about, because they lived through it. They fought back, fought with sticks and stones if they had to. You have nothing but a big damn mouth. But oh, you're so tough.

I'm all in favot of more guns in the US. I hope everyone over 10 gets one issued by the govermnent. Preferably a fully automatic machine gun.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Finally! I was waiting for your post Image

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Postby Vahok » Wed Dec 04, 2002 6:52 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by thanuk:
<B>Guns don't kill people, I kill people.

And YOU can count. On me waiting for YOU in the parking lot!

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ROFL! A classic "Happy Gilmore" quote....
"Now you will go to sleep, or I'll put you to sleep"

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Meatshield
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Postby Gerad » Wed Dec 04, 2002 7:09 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by cherzra:
<B> No you moron, the reason you were never invaded is because there was a big fucking ocean between you and everything else. Do you even think for one minute the Russians or Germans wouldn't have crushed you if you bordered on them?

How incredibly fucking naieve. You think you're tough? Ask former Yugoslavia about tough. Ask the Vietnamese about tough. Ask any occupied country in WW2 about tough. At least they'll know what they are talking about, because they lived through it. They fought back, fought with sticks and stones if they had to. You have nothing but a big damn mouth. But oh, you're so tough.

I'm all in favot of more guns in the US. I hope everyone over 10 gets one issued by the govermnent. Preferably a fully automatic machine gun.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would very much prefer, if you would shut your mouth whenever I post anything. You never have anything constructive to say, and when you do say something, your almost always rude.

Thanks in advance.
-g

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Postby cherzra » Wed Dec 04, 2002 7:22 pm

Yeah I know the truth hurts. Now go out and buy an M-16 to prove your moral and liberal superiority to the rest of the world.
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Postby Treladian » Wed Dec 04, 2002 7:28 pm

"Not true if you are a black male below the age of 30. I believe that homicide is the leading cause of death among black males below the age of 30. Most of those are gun related deaths."

And most of THOSE are due to gang or drug dealer related shootings over drug turf. The majority of homicides are related to drugs, NOT murderers going after innocent people.

The statistics Garg brings up is one used to illustrate the fact that all the hot air over the crisis of accidental gun deaths is just hot air. Talk about things like trigger locks is just political pandering since the rate of accidental gun deaths is very low.

If you want to analyze gun crime vs guns used in defense against it, these are more relevant facts:

The number of crimes defended against per year through a firearm ranges between 400,000 to 2.5 million depending on whose statistics you use. The low numbers come from FBI or police records since many people don't bother reporting cases where a criminal just runs away at the sight of a gun and citizens that choose to carry a weapon when it's illegal to do so aren't going to report it. I don't put that much stock in the extremely high numbers either, I recall the >2,000,000 value that Dr. Gleck came up with in his 1997 report being under some scrutiny. Still, either number is higher than the annual number of crimes committed with guns the last I checked. Unfortunately, I can only pull up murders from the FBI webpage right now so all I can say is that 8,719 murders of the 13,572 total in 2001 used a firearm as the murder implement. I'll bring in a total number later if I can find it.

Additionally, a county by county study done by John Lott found that crime, especially violent crime, was LOWER in areas where concealed weapon carry licenses (CCWs) were easier to obtain. Areas that allowed citizens more freedom in carrying around guns and other concealed weapons had considerably less crime while all the cities that topped the murder rate chart had very restrictive laws. Cities that originally had restrictive laws and then adopted a more liberal weapon carry policy saw large drops within a few years of the change. A good example of this is the state of Florida which has had a large drop in crime from previous decades after switching to a less restrictive CCW system despite having large urban centers that are generally filled with crime. Additionally, when an area imposed more restrictions on obtaining a CCW, such as raising the fee, crime would increase a bit. When one county in a state shifted to less stringent laws and the others did not, crime would lower in that county and rise in similar numbers in its neighbors, apparently as criminals sought easier prey. Mr. Lott's study has sustained peer review and is unprecedented in its scale with previous studies on either side of the fence only studying a small area over time or the whole nation at one period of time. He also was not a firearms rights advocate before he did this and found his results. The study is available in the book "More Guns, Less Crime" or as a study in some research journals if you care to look back a few years for it.

Quite simply, until anyone can somehow invalidate a study on this scale that has withstood criticism by researchers for a few years now and that gives evidence that gun control is correlated with HIGHER crime in the United States, they're just talking rhetoric without any proof and can shove it. You can keep your delusions of safety and somehow being more civilized in Europe, thank you very much.

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You fire a black-shafted elven arrow to the east at Gormal's pet goat with masterful shooting that does lethal damage!
You receive your share of experience.

[This message has been edited by Treladian (edited 12-04-2002).]
Keran
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Postby Keran » Wed Dec 04, 2002 7:52 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by thanuk:
<B>Guns don't kill people, I kill people.

And YOU can count. On me waiting for YOU in the parking lot!

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My suspicions of you being a red-neck are slowly being confirmed. You know you want to trade in your Nissan for a lifted 4x4 with a gunrack in the rear window...bow to me and all my power! ...or something

Toarn -The Barb-

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You shout 'You are no match for elemental Toarn!'
Toarn is dead! R.I.P.
Erevan responds to your petition with 'I don't think they heard you.'
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Postby moritheil » Wed Dec 04, 2002 8:05 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by cherzra:
<B> No you moron, the reason you were never invaded is because there was a big fucking ocean between you and everything else. Do you even think for one minute the Russians or Germans wouldn't have crushed you if you bordered on them?

How incredibly fucking naieve. You think you're tough? Ask former Yugoslavia about tough. Ask the Vietnamese about tough. Ask any occupied country in WW2 about tough. At least they'll know what they are talking about, because they lived through it. They fought back, fought with sticks and stones if they had to. You have nothing but a big damn mouth. But oh, you're so tough.

I'm all in favot of more guns in the US. I hope everyone over 10 gets one issued by the govermnent. Preferably a fully automatic machine gun.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Flames? What flames?
Pass the popcorn, please, Dugdug!

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Kiaransalee responds to your petition with 'look on the bright side, I just saved you some corpses. We all know you would have gotten spanked'
Ashiwi
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Postby Ashiwi » Wed Dec 04, 2002 8:06 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Treladian:
<B>You can keep your delusions of safety and somehow being more civilized in Europe, thank you very much.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The topic of our gun control really has little to do with Europe's crime rate ... unless you're going to bring out statistics and compare ours vs. theirs.

When in Rome...
Gerad
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Postby Gerad » Wed Dec 04, 2002 9:04 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by cherzra:
Yeah I know the truth hurts. Now go out and buy an M-16 to prove your moral and liberal superiority to the rest of the world.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cherzra, you are the living? embodyment of all that you strive to hate. You are rude, crude, unable to express yourself in constructive ways, and are barbaric and child like in your insults.

You are, in effect, the butt of all of your own jokes.

Do us all a favor and leave the BBS alone.

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Auril tells you 'Yes, we're plotting the destruction of all that is holy - and unholy, too. Just to be thorough.'
Gerad
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Postby Gerad » Wed Dec 04, 2002 9:07 pm

Originally posted by cherzra:
<B> No you moron,

How incredibly fucking naieve.

You have nothing but a big damn mouth.
</B>

Can something be done?


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Auril tells you 'Yes, we're plotting the destruction of all that is holy - and unholy, too. Just to be thorough.'
Tesil2
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Postby Tesil2 » Wed Dec 04, 2002 9:20 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gerad:
<B>Originally posted by cherzra:
No you moron,

How incredibly fucking naieve.

You have nothing but a big damn mouth.
</B>

Can something be done?


</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yea...ignore him like everyone else does. He knows he's an uneducated nobody from some piss-ant little country.

Enjoy!

(Waiting oh so anxiously for the reply where he touts his made up degrees and other such crap)



[This message has been edited by Tesil2 (edited 12-04-2002).]
Susket
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Postby Susket » Wed Dec 04, 2002 9:37 pm

Guys cmon. The statement that nobody has invaded the USA because we all have guns is an obvious fallacy. So is the original post by Garg ... Obviously doctors aren't more dangerous than guns; the real meaning (whether or not he meant it to be is another question) of G's post has nothing to do with gun control, but rather that statistics can be deceiving. Cherzra, while often times having something meaningful to say, can be inflammatory but it's unnecessary to 'get back' at him. Especially when there are valid points being raised.
sok
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Postby sok » Wed Dec 04, 2002 9:51 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ashiwi:
<B> The topic of our gun control really has little to do with Europe's crime rate ... unless you're going to bring out statistics and compare ours vs. theirs.

When in Rome...</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

first off i believe most of his post was about gun control in the usa. he was showing how gun control raised crime rates. once he establish that crime goes up with more restrictive ccw he apply that same idea to europe. you are right that we dont know what is the crime rate in europe but i think he just wanted to show cherzra that his idea of more gun isn't necessary bad


-----------

re: homeowners with guns as a deterrant, Gurns "I know which side I'd bet on), but at least the invaders might have to give it some consideration."

Waco those guys had guns and it did not stop the adf(?) from going into that place. of course they got shot up and it was a PR nightmare but they manage to burn that place down.

yeah invasion from us gov agency is different than from an invading country.
Ashiwi
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Postby Ashiwi » Wed Dec 04, 2002 9:54 pm

Cherz is actually a decent guy with a split personality, unfortunality his other personality speaks a different language on the BBS. You just have to sit back and read "Cherzreze."

F*** you = "Good show, jolly well done."
Moronic imbecilic a$$wipe = "Let me reiterate"
Die, die, die = "I beg to differ"
F*** off and die = "Dinner sometime?"


Every time I've dealt with Cherzra in game he's been a real pleasure to talk to. I just accept that fact that he hates Americans with a vehemence, which means he hates me too, and think how much I'd love to pinch his cheeks and tell him how cute he is because he looks just like Niles Crane off of "Frazier" and go on.

::Ashiwi pinches Cherzra's big, green cheek and babbles "woogum woogum woogum, him's so CUTE!"::
Salen
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Postby Salen » Wed Dec 04, 2002 10:19 pm

Cheesy Goodness is just pissed cuz he lives in a country that's never been in charge.

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emote Rescuepractice
Jegzed
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Postby Jegzed » Wed Dec 04, 2002 10:31 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Salen:
<B>Cheesy Goodness is just pissed cuz he lives in a country that's never been in charge.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, the dutch could be considered to be in charge once. (Mid 17th century).

Most countries have been a leading superpower for a period of time in history.




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/Jegzed - Sorcere Master - Crimson Coalition
thanuk
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Postby thanuk » Wed Dec 04, 2002 10:42 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by cherzra:
<B> No you moron, the reason you were never invaded is because there was a big fucking ocean between you and everything else. Do you even think for one minute the Russians or Germans wouldn't have crushed you if you bordered on them?

How incredibly fucking naieve. You think you're tough? Ask former Yugoslavia about tough. Ask the Vietnamese about tough. Ask any occupied country in WW2 about tough. At least they'll know what they are talking about, because they lived through it. They fought back, fought with sticks and stones if they had to. You have nothing but a big damn mouth. But oh, you're so tough.

I'm all in favot of more guns in the US. I hope everyone over 10 gets one issued by the govermnent. Preferably a fully automatic machine gun.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok, ill bite Image
Yes, i think i am tough. And yes, i think the United States is also tough. As for germany, U.S. 2, germany 0. Crushed? thats classic european dreaming, and i like it. U.S. 1, Russia 0. Its called the cold war buddy. Ask any occupied country during WW2 who friggin UN-OCCUPIED them, if you wanna play the ww2 card, but you don't because the U.S. won that war. Maybe not in cherzraland, but back here in reality, we got the belt, and nobody is lookin to take it from us any time soon. Ill give u the vietnamese, they kinda fucked us up, but i dont see any vietnamese soldiers walking around policing MY town.
How come that big old ocean stops every one of your crappy euro-trash countries from invading the U.S., and yet has never stopped the U.S. from coming down, slapping you guys around a bit, freeing some oppressed people, and then taking all your women? Because we run shit and u know it. Granted we don't run it very well, but we still run it. Your also right about sticks and stones, the U.S. never fought with sticks and stones? Why? Because we all have GUNS! We don't need to throw rocks cuz we pack heat, bizniziziziatch!
You know who's tough? my grandfather. He slept in a horse stable for 5 months over in europe, killed 6 german soldiers. Came home, got married, had kids, had grandkids. Got lung cancer, beat it. Got intestinal cancer, beat it. He's currently 83 years old, and now has prostate cancer, and is winning. He still changes his own oil. Thats what tough is. I bet he could kick your ass, too.

So you wanna talk about tough in your little non-violent no guns no weapons no spitting no punching no dodgeball always neutral blonde paradise country? Come to my house, you can sleep on the couch. We'll go for a jog, around 4 am, down thru Washington park, in Arbor Hill, Albany. Make sure to wear your nice jewelry, everybody LOVES jewelry round where im from. You don't even know what tough is.
Nukkie from NY - More guns than texas, but without the menonites!

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Thanuk Pantherclaw
Gerad
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Postby Gerad » Wed Dec 04, 2002 10:52 pm

Hell fuck yeah, go Thanuk!

P.S. Cherzra, if it were not for american lives, soldiers, gusto, toughness, and everything else you bash,

you would be speaking German.

3nj0y

G

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Auril tells you 'Yes, we're plotting the destruction of all that is holy - and unholy, too. Just to be thorough.'
Tesil2
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Postby Tesil2 » Wed Dec 04, 2002 10:55 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by thanuk:
<B> Ok, ill bite Image
Yes, i think i am tough. And yes, i think the United States is also tough. As for germany, U.S. 2, germany 0. Crushed? thats classic european dreaming, and i like it. U.S. 1, Russia 0. Its called the cold war buddy. Ask any occupied country during WW2 who friggin UN-OCCUPIED them, if you wanna play the ww2 card, but you don't because the U.S. won that war. Maybe not in cherzraland, but back here in reality, we got the belt, and nobody is lookin to take it from us any time soon. Ill give u the vietnamese, they kinda fucked us up, but i dont see any vietnamese soldiers walking around policing MY town.
How come that big old ocean stops every one of your crappy euro-trash countries from invading the U.S., and yet has never stopped the U.S. from coming down, slapping you guys around a bit, freeing some oppressed people, and then taking all your women? Because we run shit and u know it. Granted we don't run it very well, but we still run it. Your also right about sticks and stones, the U.S. never fought with sticks and stones? Why? Because we all have GUNS! We don't need to throw rocks cuz we pack heat, bizniziziziatch!
You know who's tough? my grandfather. He slept in a horse stable for 5 months over in europe, killed 6 german soldiers. Came home, got married, had kids, had grandkids. Got lung cancer, beat it. Got intestinal cancer, beat it. He's currently 83 years old, and now has prostate cancer, and is winning. He still changes his own oil. Thats what tough is. I bet he could kick your ass, too.

So you wanna talk about tough in your little non-violent no guns no weapons no spitting no punching no dodgeball always neutral blonde paradise country? Come to my house, you can sleep on the couch. We'll go for a jog, around 4 am, down thru Washington park, in Arbor Hill, Albany. Make sure to wear your nice jewelry, everybody LOVES jewelry round where im from. You don't even know what tough is.
Nukkie from NY - More guns than texas, but without the menonites!

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

cheezra geta owned.....AGAIN!!!

hahahah
thanuk
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Postby thanuk » Wed Dec 04, 2002 11:32 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gerad:
<B> Cherzra, you are the living? embodyment of all that you strive to hate. You are rude, crude, unable to express yourself in constructive ways, and are barbaric and child like in your insults.

You are, in effect, the butt of all of your own jokes.

Do us all a favor and leave the BBS alone.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dont really think thats necessary. I like it when cherzra posts on the BBS. He is a good person to argue with, although it does get inflammatory at times. Just don't take it too personal. And if you make a point against him, he makes a counter-point, instead of just calling your mother fat and complaining about flaming on the BBS. Im actually looking forward to his response, so we can have a long drawn out argument over a moot point for a while, until eventually someone will complain about all the flaming and sucks all the fun right out of it.

p.s.
FOR THE LAST FRIGGIN TIME TOARN IM NOT A GOD DAMN REDNECK IF YOU CALL ME THAT AGAIN IM GONNA GET BOMBED ON SCHLITZ ICE AND PARK MY MOBILE HOME ON YOUR ASS



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Thanuk Pantherclaw
Gerad
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Postby Gerad » Wed Dec 04, 2002 11:50 pm

You notice how gargauth posted something, and then didnt say another damn word?

I smell conspiracy!

G

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Auril tells you 'Yes, we're plotting the destruction of all that is holy - and unholy, too. Just to be thorough.'
Tasan
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Postby Tasan » Thu Dec 05, 2002 12:01 am

Thanuk:

1) Don't forget to beat him with your mullet kabuki-style.

2) Taking all the credit for much of what has happened in the world over the past century IS assinine. Unless of course you are adding in all the absolute crap we've been responsible for as well.

Cherzra:

1) You want tough, read up if you haven't already on what happened in Somalia a few years back. Rangers are everything this country wants to be.

That's right punks, Rangers > all.

Cackle.

2) They got occupied in the first place... I don't call that tough Image

Twinshadow

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Ashiwi: And don't go jumping on my ass just because I'm responding to you, I'm wearing my "Malacar-proof" spiked buttguard for this occasion.
Xisiqomelir
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Postby Xisiqomelir » Thu Dec 05, 2002 1:48 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ashiwi:
<B> The topic of our gun control really has little to do with Europe's crime rate ... unless you're going to bring out statistics and compare ours vs. theirs.

When in Rome...</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok, here are some intra-American statistics.

(from http://www.amfire.com/restrict.htm )
Each State in The USA is an On-Going Political Experiment


Let's compare the six states with the MOST restrictions against honest firearms owners to the six states with the LEAST restrictions against honest firearms ownership.


The states and areas with the most restrictions against firearms ownership


(murder rates per 100,000 in 1991: Figures from the FBI.


California 12.7 per 100,000
Illinois 11.3 per 100,000
Washington, D.C. 80.6 per 100,000
Maryland 11.7 per 100,000
Michigan 10.8 per 100,000
New York 14.2 per 100,000


The states and areas with the least restrictions against firearms ownership


(murder rates per 100,000 in 1991: Figures from the FBI.


Idaho 1.8 per 100,000
Iowa 2.0 per 100,000
Maine 1.2 per 100,000
Montana 2.6 per 100,000
North Dakota 1.1 per 100,000
South Dakota 1.7 per 100,000



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Thus spake Shevarash: "Invokers are not going to be removed"
Xisiqomelir
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Postby Xisiqomelir » Thu Dec 05, 2002 2:04 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gerad:
Cherzra, if it were not for american lives, soldiers, gusto, toughness, and everything else you bash,

you would be speaking German.

</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This one is more controversial than the thread topic. Image

LOTS of WWII historians disagree with this idea. The main argument being that Germany was already heavily overtaxed being engaged with Britain and Russia. By this line of thinking, America's entry into the European theatre was simply speeding up the inevitable.

There is one thing that no one can possibly argue with, though, and that is that without America, Japan would be ruling a giant Pan-Asian empire.

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Thus spake Shevarash: "Invokers are not going to be removed"

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