Mac vs. PC

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Braggo Boulderbasher
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Mac vs. PC

Postby Braggo Boulderbasher » Wed Dec 04, 2002 12:41 pm

I'm going to college next year and was trying to decide on a laptop. I've been a PC user ever since I can remember, but Mac laptops are looking pretty amazing Image Any Mac/PC users out there that could give me a good arguement on why I should buy which? Thanks

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Postby Musi » Wed Dec 04, 2002 1:03 pm

It probably depends on what you want to get into pc. A few years in graphics pc, a mac was better for graphic design pc, but not so anymore pc. The PCs are faster, cheaper, and do better than a mac now pc. All through my graphics and printing classes pc, I was urged to splurge over $4000 on a mac, when my $1000 PC would blow it away. It's just because the printing and graphics world just hasn't caught up with technology pc and they're scared of change.

But if you're going into just about anything else, I'd suggest a PC because it's more compatible with all the other software (Word, Excel, games) and it's a lot less expensive. Even if you do go into a designing program, I'd still suggest a PC, since the files (pagemaker, quark, and most others you can make on photoshop) can go between platforms. Only thing is, if you design a file on a mac, they don't use file extensions, so when you try to open the file on a pc, you need to add the .qxd .tif etc...

BTW...there was no subliminal messages in the first pc paragraph pc. Image


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Postby rylan » Wed Dec 04, 2002 1:07 pm

Musi makes some good points. In addition most colleges have a bunch of software and network resources that are accesable through your computer, so you can run things off the local net. Its easy to set that up with a pc, but odds are it'll be a pain with a mac and you won't be able to run some of the things. Plus local file sharing is a easier with all the other windows pc people.
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Postby Xisiqomelir » Wed Dec 04, 2002 1:07 pm

A good argument is all that you're likely to get, definitely some form of argument, anyway.

Well, since Daz was slow to pick up on this one, here is why I think you should get a Mac.

1) The hardware is better. Apple laptops vs other laptops especially. Everything meshes together very well, and you'll have no internal conflicts with your hardware.

2) The OS is better. It is both easier to use and more powerful than any possible Microsoft alternative. (I will concede that a customized Linux distro will probably be the best alternative of all, but that's a lot of effort to do)

3) Compatibility with wintel PC users shouldn't be an issue, if all the files you're exchanging aren't in some bizarre proprietary format.

*waits for cost, number of available applications and....compatibility to be raised as counterpoints*

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Postby rylan » Wed Dec 04, 2002 1:09 pm

Well since ya mentioned cost, yeah Image

I can go buy a motherboard, 512MB of ddr memory and a 2GHz AMD Athlon cpu and slap it together in a nice case with good vid card and sound and stuff for under 500 bucks.
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Postby Xisiqomelir » Wed Dec 04, 2002 1:17 pm

Which is less than a third of the price of the Apple equivalent

Braggo was mentioning laptops, though, not desktops. Not that it helps the cost discussion, since iBook/PowerBook prices are even heftier than G4 prices.

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Postby Daz » Wed Dec 04, 2002 1:20 pm

there is no reason to choose a mac over a pc in the laptop world.

even graphicswise, pcs are quickly surpassing macs.

mac users are just microsoft haters who dislike linux. granted, mac is better than linux, but both are way beneath the pc.
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Postby Xisiqomelir » Wed Dec 04, 2002 1:22 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Daz:
<B>
mac users are just microsoft haters who dislike linux.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What does that make me, the person running Debian on a PowerMac? Image

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Postby Sarvis » Wed Dec 04, 2002 1:47 pm

A Masochist?

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Postby Kuurg » Wed Dec 04, 2002 3:23 pm

TiBook - most kick ass laptop you'll be able to find.

Macs have, historically, stored information about a file type in the data fork rather than requiring an extension to identify it/associate it with a typical application, but extensions are so ubiquitous that most every application you're going to use on a Mac now is going to save a file with one. with OS X you can use AppleWorks $99, Office $499 (?), or StarOffice (free!) to do almost all the same work. Final Cut Pro blows the doors off of any similar pc app.
The Mac IS more expensive. The up-front cost is where they get ya!

network configuration on a mac is easier, file sharing with other macs is easier, connecting to pc shares is easy, Setting up your Mac to allow other PC users to connect ain't so sweet, but it's not terribly difficult either.

If you can afford it, get the titanium powerbook. I don't know a single person who owns one who doesn't love it. Educational discount on it too.


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Postby thanuk » Wed Dec 04, 2002 3:34 pm

A mac is like a finely tuned sports car. It runs great, its faster than the others, but it ain't street legal Image PC saves alot of headaches, although inferior in many ways...

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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Wed Dec 04, 2002 3:39 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Daz:
mac users are just microsoft haters who dislike linux. granted, mac is better than linux, but both are way beneath the pc.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed on the microsoft hating. But mac better than linux? Give me a break :P I'll take my slackware box over a mac anyday of the week :P


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Postby Linelai » Wed Dec 04, 2002 3:46 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by thanuk:
<B>A mac is like a finely tuned sports car. It runs great, its faster than the others, but it ain't street legal Image

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not to mention they loook soooo good *drool*
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Postby Gindipple » Wed Dec 04, 2002 5:15 pm

Slightly on topic, but it's a fun article nonetheless.

http://www.spack.org/words/commandline.html


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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Wed Dec 04, 2002 5:21 pm

This should solve all MAC vs PC debates

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Postby Daz » Wed Dec 04, 2002 5:51 pm

http://www.oldeenglish.org/apple.htm
http://www.oldeenglish.org/apple1.htm
http://www.oldeenglish.org/apple2.htm

if you listen carefully, they use all of the major selling points of the apple product line in their ads.
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Postby Musi » Wed Dec 04, 2002 6:47 pm

This one idiot I went to school with was arguing that a mac is better than a PC because she couldn't get the hang of a 2 BUTTON MOUSE!! *roflmao!!* What a STUPID reason! Just because she wasn't intelligent enough to use the mouse, doesn't mean that no one should buy a PC Image

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Postby Keran » Wed Dec 04, 2002 6:52 pm

PC

I have run off Dell Inspiron Laptops for the last 7 years or so. I have never had a problem at all. I have heard that some other people have had problems with their desktops. Just my two cents. I travel a bit so I need the mobility. And it is nice to have all our apps/files at home with you when you want to access them. Having 1 box with all of your mudfiles/client is also a plus. *tongue*

Toarn

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Postby Gurns » Wed Dec 04, 2002 7:03 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Braggo Boulderbasher:
<B>I'm going to college next year and was trying to decide on a laptop. I've been a PC user ever since I can remember, but Mac laptops are looking pretty amazing Image Any Mac/PC users out there that could give me a good arguement on why I should buy which? Thanks
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is the school widely networked? Like, a port in your dorm room, or ports in the student union you can plug into? If so, what does the school support? (After the school tells you, "Why, you can use either a PC or a Mac.", ask how many students use what type.)

If they aren't primarily a Mac school, stick with your PC, since you're used to it. Why waste time learning your way around a new OS? If it ends up important for your major, then you should switch.

Note: I prefer Macs. 95% of my computer stuff is done on PCs.
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Postby Braggo Boulderbasher » Wed Dec 04, 2002 10:54 pm

wow, thanks for all the replies guys, Gurns, wish I could tell ya about the school, but atm it's still between 3 Image I'm not exactly sure what kinda profession I'm gonna go into, looks like Engineering is kinda cool, but *shrug* The one I was looking at btw was a powerbook G4, my parents are definitely pushing the PC cause they are so much cheaper, they don't understand that the powerbook just looks sooo good Image If I get a powerbook it's looking like I'll have to go bottom of the line, so if it comes to that I'll definitely go PC. Thanks everyone


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Postby Shargaas » Thu Dec 05, 2002 1:26 am

If you have the money for a TiBook then go for that, most university networks support macs, the .01% who dont tend to have bad networks which will not support modern PCs very well either. The latest version of osx also supports direct Windows to Mac networking (if you need to directly hook it up to a PC for file transfers)

I would however not recomend the iBook as I see the G3 as outdated. Take the money and buy a notebook w/ USB2.0, Firewire and WinXP. Also make sure you get 512 or more memory as some notebooks can be a pain/expensive to upgrade
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Postby Kallinar » Thu Dec 05, 2002 2:22 am

I am a PC guy but I have to agree with the people promoting the mac laptops. As far as plugging into a network goes, since most centers of higher education use PC's and are usually running on Win2k and/or XP You will almost be guaranteed connectivity with the new MAC OS. The main problem is with what you want/how much money you have. Cheap Desktop? PC. Expensive Desktop? PC. Cheap Notebook? PC. Expensive notebook? MAC.

Kallinar likes pretty and colorful laptops.
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Postby Yarash » Thu Dec 05, 2002 3:08 am

Just try them both out and pick out the one that you're the most comfortable on.

- Mike
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Postby Ambar » Thu Dec 05, 2002 11:15 am

screwit just buy the cheapest thing with a DVD player .. all you will use it for is mudding and WORD apps (or some other word proccesor)


dont lie to yourself!

buahahahahah

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Postby Abue » Thu Dec 05, 2002 1:01 pm

I have worked for 6 years in university computer labs between two Universities. I have seriously been driven to hate macs with a passion because of my exposure to them. I do have to admit I have a very big dislike for Microsoft, but man.... You gotta raise some serious questions about a computer that doesn't trust you enough to take out your own disk easily. Shit... I used to carry a paper clip in my pocket at all times. I also friggen hate it when some dork ejects there disk using eject disk command and then puts another one in. Ever get into that infinate loop where the fucking mac keeps going insert other disk? Buy a PC. Microsoft might suck but not as bad as Apples. The only good use for a Mac is a door stopper. I guess if you had a need for a really big paper weight. There to light for an anchor but that wouldn't keep me from throwing them over board.

A couple of years ago someone from Apple corp came to my University to talk to us about Macs and answer any questions we might have. So the approximately 50 of us who worked in and around the computer labs on campus drilled the shit out of the guy. He hated him self, his job and macs by the time he left.

BUY A PC!!!!
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Postby Xisiqomelir » Thu Dec 05, 2002 1:05 pm

If we're going to go into ancient history, may I point out that it is equally absurd for an operating system to fail to recognize an inserted disk until you tell it that the disk is there?

Not to mention crashing just from being left alone.

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Postby Snizzle » Thu Dec 05, 2002 1:44 pm

Right on Xisi! Both systems have lots of stupid things going on.

I have been running OSX since its first day out, and recently caught up in the upgrade path. I NEVER shut down my Mac and have 0 crashes and 0 downtime.

I run programs from almost every Unix variant, tons of stuff for Linux and love the whole open source thing going on. OSX if you learn the ropes gives you much more access to the OS processes than WinOS's - seems to me WINOS's are all moving closer to Apple stuff my taking lots of that access away in each new version trying to make it simpler for Grandma and Grandpa to use thier digital cameras and connect to the internet w/o a hitch.

I run both OS's but have only one thats consistantly running.

Sniz
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Postby Daz » Thu Dec 05, 2002 3:36 pm

yeah, because 90% of the world really needs to be screwing with the kernel
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Postby Xisiqomelir » Thu Dec 05, 2002 3:43 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Daz:
yeah, because 90% of the world really needs to be screwing with the kernel</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You want to talk about bad Linux-user attitudes, try "You can't write your own drivers?! You don't DESERVE a computer" on for size. Image

And I recompiled my kernel exactly once. In the whole period of time I've had my Linux system. How many times have you done a Windows reinstall?

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Postby Sarvis » Thu Dec 05, 2002 3:56 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Xisiqomelir:
<B> You want to talk about bad Linux-user attitudes, try "You can't write your own drivers?! You don't DESERVE a computer" on for size. Image

And I recompiled my kernel exactly once. In the whole period of time I've had my Linux system. How many times have you done a Windows reinstall?

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Never. And I'm still running Windows 95 on the computer I bought 6 years ago...

Looking forward to a new system though. 200Mhz just doesn't cut it these days... heh.



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Postby Sarvis » Thu Dec 05, 2002 5:20 pm

Just remembered something else. Last summer while working on OSX I had to reinstall it an average of twice a day in order to even get it booting. The only thing that stopped it was repartitioning the drive...

Granted, it was the pre-release beta of OSX, but still...

And currently, on the lastest version, my USB gets hosed whenever I try to connect to a network drive.

Yeah stability! Image

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Postby Braggo Boulderbasher » Fri Dec 06, 2002 4:47 am

*ponder* still have no clue which to get Image probably pc though, cause they are a lot cheaper Image and Ambar's right, I prolly won't be doing much gaming besides mudding on it, I'll use Xbox or PS2 for that Image *shrug*

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Postby Sarvis » Mon Dec 23, 2002 9:51 pm

So I go to turn on my mac at work this morning, and nothing happens. I play with the KVM a bit, thinking maybe I'm on the wrong switch or something... but still nothing. Thinking I killed yet another mac (without even trying) I went in search of one of the few mac experts we have around here. Ran into a friend of mine in QA, and he told me that occasionally having USB devices plugged in can keep a mac from powering up. Went back, unplugged the USB cables and it powered up fine.

So... is that the "stability" you get with macs? Or is it the "user friendliness" you get with them?

*evilgrin*

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Postby Kuurg » Mon Dec 23, 2002 10:05 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Sarvis:
<B>
So I go to turn on my mac at work this morning, and nothing happens. I play with the KVM a bit, thinking maybe I'm on the wrong switch or something... but still nothing. Thinking I killed yet another mac (without even trying) I went in search of one of the few mac experts we have around here. Ran into a friend of mine in QA, and he told me that occasionally having USB devices plugged in can keep a mac from powering up. Went back, unplugged the USB cables and it powered up fine.

So... is that the "stability" you get with macs? Or is it the "user friendliness" you get with them?

*evilgrin*

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's a good thing you had a friend in QA who had some idea how one actually troubleshoots startup issues. While I'm sure you tried things on your own and didn't just say 'well it worked yesterday!', it's good to occasionally bounce problems off those who are more technically savvy.

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Postby Sarvis » Mon Dec 23, 2002 10:36 pm

You're right, I'm a complete technological klutz. I should never touch a computer in my life... though that would make it a bit tough to be a computer programmer.

Image

Sorry, but even if all that was true Apple's major marketing point is that Macs are easier to use. With stuff like this happening it just isn't true. Let's put it this way, how long do you think it would take Ragorn to explain something like this to the people who call him for tech support?

And it isn't that he was tech savvy either, it's that he sees this happen all the time. He probably had to bring our IT guy down to look at it the first time, who probably spent a good deal of time figuring out what the problem was. (He's on vacation though... :shrug: )


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Postby Kuurg » Mon Dec 23, 2002 11:04 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Sarvis:
<B>You're right, I'm a complete technological klutz. I should never touch a computer in my life... though that would make it a bit tough to be a computer programmer.

Image

Sorry, but even if all that was true Apple's major marketing point is that Macs are easier to use. With stuff like this happening it just isn't true. Let's put it this way, how long do you think it would take Ragorn to explain something like this to the people who call him for tech support?

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh 'fess up! you know as well as I do that programming does not equate with 'knows how to use his computer!'
I'm really not saying you don't, heck, I don't even know you and so try to rein in the urge to nod my head saying 'uh huh' the whole while thinking you've just got an axe to grind with Apple. BUT, having programmed first, THEN learned to work with my machine, I know first-hand how one does not equal the other.

I'm basing my reply on your constant case of 'sour grapes' regarding macs. You're starting to sound like Daz. Everyone has a preference, I don't understand why people attack another platform with such vehemence. I use both. They're tools for a job. I've made my living on both and will continue to do so.


(since it's now chic to say what we edited, I wrote reign instead of rein.)
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[This message has been edited by Kuurg (edited 12-23-2002).]
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Postby Sarvis » Mon Dec 23, 2002 11:14 pm

:shrug: I don't enjoy using macs. So yes, you could say I "have an axe to grind" about them. However, this is a thread in which someone wanted opinions about which type of computer to buy... so I think posting problems I have with macs might just be relevant to his decision. Especially when the issues directly counter Apple's (and their zealot defenders Image claims.

Stability: I've crashed a mac 3 times in one week.
User Friendliness: A USB conflict can cause your machine to not power up.

Yeah...

Oh, and the proper word _was_ reign. Shouldn't have edited. Image

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Postby Kuurg » Mon Dec 23, 2002 11:25 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Sarvis:
<B>
Oh, and the proper word _was_ reign. Shouldn't have edited. Image

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

nuh uh! rein in, as in to restrain. reign as in to REWL!

and you're right about posting issues you've had. It is relevant and is certainly the type of feedback this thread was created to solicit.

Go Sarvis! Kuurg bad.

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Postby Sarvis » Mon Dec 23, 2002 11:33 pm

Woops... thought rein wasn't a word. My bad. Image

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Postby Kallinar » Tue Dec 24, 2002 5:51 am

one button mice are evil evil creatures. They are like the mouse pirates with one eye and whatnot.


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Postby Guest » Tue Dec 24, 2002 7:41 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Kallinar:
<B>one button mice are evil evil creatures. They are like the mouse pirates with one eye and whatnot.


Kallinar likes to shiver me timbers.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Multiple-button mice are huge contributors to carpal tunnel, just so ya know.



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Postby Gerad » Tue Dec 24, 2002 8:08 am

PC's are supported by the world, macs arent.
Comapanies make more software, hardware, etc for pcs, pcs are also cheeper. Unless your doing some REALLY high-end video editing, stay away from a mac.

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Postby Gerad » Tue Dec 24, 2002 8:35 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Iyachtu:
<B> Multiple-button mice are huge contributors to carpal tunnel, just so ya know.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would think it would be worse having to use the keyboard every time you want to alt click something

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Postby Zoldren » Tue Dec 24, 2002 1:31 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Iyachtu:
<B> Multiple-button mice are huge contributors to carpal tunnel, just so ya know.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

actualy keyboards, keypads, cash registers etc play more of a role than mice do

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Sarvis
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Postby Sarvis » Tue Dec 24, 2002 2:32 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Iyachtu:
<B> Multiple-button mice are huge contributors to carpal tunnel, just so ya know.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


That's just because the systems one button mice are connected to are useless, so the mouse sees less action. Image

Seriously though, I never started having a problem with carpal tunnel until last summer when I started programming on macs. I got one of the oh so ergonomic puck mice, and one of the keyboards that's smaller than laptop keyboards. It was great!

And the newer laser mice they have really aren't better, one button might be ok... but not when the entire top half of the mouse is the button. If you have to drag anything further than your mousepad you have to squeeze really hard with your entire hand to get the button to stay down.

I got lucky this when I came back to work for the company this time though, got a nice ergonomic microsoft mouse with 4 buttons and a mousewheel! Image


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Xisiqomelir
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Postby Xisiqomelir » Fri Dec 27, 2002 11:48 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gerad:
<B>PC's are supported by the world, macs arent.
Comapanies make more software, hardware, etc for pcs, pcs are also cheeper. Unless your doing some REALLY high-end video editing, stay away from a mac.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I completely disagree. This concept of Macintoshes being just for people doing 3D rendering and image editing is outright FUD. To counter your point, I should like to say that unless you absolutely MUST play each new computer game as it comes out, stay away from Windows PCs.

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Thus spake Shevarash: "Invokers are not going to be removed"
Sarell
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Postby Sarell » Sat Dec 28, 2002 10:27 am

Buy 400 bottles of jack daniels. Anyone at college will let you use their computer then and you wont have to set it up ever! Imagine having a new laptop worth of JD?>!?!?! Image

I agree with Ambar! And if for some reason you are doing extremely high end graphics production on your laptop, that is very wierd... SG?

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Postby Guest » Sun Dec 29, 2002 12:11 am

I keep hearing all this talk about computers called Macintoshes? I know I read about them in history class when I was a boy, but I thought they were only found in the Smithsonian.. Are you saying that Still make computers?

O_o
Xisiqomelir
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Postby Xisiqomelir » Sun Dec 29, 2002 1:24 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Miax:
<B>I keep hearing all this talk about computers called Macintoshes? I know I read about them in history class when I was a boy, but I thought they were only found in the Smithsonian.. Are you saying that Still make computers?

O_o</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Forger response!

To tell the truth though, McIntoshes are dark apples better suited for cooking than eating raw. Image


p.s. Starkings forever!

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Thus spake Shevarash: "Invokers are not going to be removed"
Pheten
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Postby Pheten » Sun Dec 29, 2002 4:35 am


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