I was just curious on what the status/plans on area creation. I know that we will have an online editing tool which will allow us to build a zone while walking through it. The question is when will it be available? I know building a zone is a very time consuming task. I was wondering if we (for the people who are interested) can start in someway and have it tested and ready by the time the mud opens. Wouldn't that be cool?
Wargo
Area Creation
what you're talking about is a god function (and a lot of fun, speaking from experience on other MUDs), which I doubt they'll want to grant to mortals, even on the testmud.
In the past, the zone creation guidelines were pretty detailed and strict (e.g. the number of rooms, having two descriptions for each room, one long, one short).
Mainly, you had to have the zone written out in a text file for review, then if it were approved it would be implemented by an areas god.
I dont think many zones were excepted (only one in recent memory was TF) b/c of the difficulty of measuring up to Cyric's high standars (a good thing).
Or course they may have changed this system, but it worked pretty well, quality control wise, so I doubt it.
First thing I'd do is come up with a concept that fits in the FR world setting of Sojourn(the west coast of Faerun at least.. there's so much of the world that isn't included).
The key to this, IMHO, is knowing what is lacking; what areas are a bit barren. For one, I'd like to see the region around Calimport fleshed out a bit. Also the road to Ice Craig is a bit lonely, and I recall from cursory examination of the Salvitore novels that there was a lot more civilization in those parts.
Not sure that I like how they moved zentil keep and the long road to get there, though it's good for experience.
Personally, I think Sojourn could benifit from more grid-like zones (e.g. Jot, Astral, GC Hills) with rare loads, etc. Greycloak is one of the most travelled regions for a reason (great work Cyric!): for one, unlike Jot/Astral, it's not a place you need a party to survive, and two, due to the random/rare loads, it's always changing, unlike static zones with the same monster tables, etc.
Hopefully the midlevel zones that Cyric alluded to will be along the lines of GC, or at least split shield (speaking of which, is SS still off limits to high level PCs? I remeber that the orcs were switched to neutral alignment or somthing to prevent high levels doing alignment work there...)
IF any change to the zone creation process is needed, I'd think a list of zones that the Areas Co-ordinator wanted to see written would be useful (particularly to him, as it would channel people's efforts more productively, rather than their submitting zones that conceptually will never work on Sojourn).
In the past, the zone creation guidelines were pretty detailed and strict (e.g. the number of rooms, having two descriptions for each room, one long, one short).
Mainly, you had to have the zone written out in a text file for review, then if it were approved it would be implemented by an areas god.
I dont think many zones were excepted (only one in recent memory was TF) b/c of the difficulty of measuring up to Cyric's high standars (a good thing).
Or course they may have changed this system, but it worked pretty well, quality control wise, so I doubt it.
First thing I'd do is come up with a concept that fits in the FR world setting of Sojourn(the west coast of Faerun at least.. there's so much of the world that isn't included).
The key to this, IMHO, is knowing what is lacking; what areas are a bit barren. For one, I'd like to see the region around Calimport fleshed out a bit. Also the road to Ice Craig is a bit lonely, and I recall from cursory examination of the Salvitore novels that there was a lot more civilization in those parts.
Not sure that I like how they moved zentil keep and the long road to get there, though it's good for experience.
Personally, I think Sojourn could benifit from more grid-like zones (e.g. Jot, Astral, GC Hills) with rare loads, etc. Greycloak is one of the most travelled regions for a reason (great work Cyric!): for one, unlike Jot/Astral, it's not a place you need a party to survive, and two, due to the random/rare loads, it's always changing, unlike static zones with the same monster tables, etc.
Hopefully the midlevel zones that Cyric alluded to will be along the lines of GC, or at least split shield (speaking of which, is SS still off limits to high level PCs? I remeber that the orcs were switched to neutral alignment or somthing to prevent high levels doing alignment work there...)
IF any change to the zone creation process is needed, I'd think a list of zones that the Areas Co-ordinator wanted to see written would be useful (particularly to him, as it would channel people's efforts more productively, rather than their submitting zones that conceptually will never work on Sojourn).
Ruhr
"Greycloak is one of the most traveled regions for a reason (great work Cyric!):"
Greycloak and Jot would be the work of Talos, FYI. Not trying to be a smarty, just getting record straight is all bud. =)
But on the note of Cyric, what I'd like to see, here, on this BBS, from him, would be a break down of the zone creating process. From first approaching the staff (who you'd approach for example), what you'd say. What happens after that? How do you get to the point of implementing the zone on testmud? What forms do you have to fill out and sign? What legalities or rights do you give up? What are the requirements for a new areas builder's zone on Soj? Is there a min room requirement? A max you can't exceed? Details, details. That's wut I'd like to see. I've heard the rumors, but I'd like to know the facts from the man himself. From the humble beginnings to the areas god supervising changes after the zones been play tested to death on main and changes are warranted.
*Hands the mic over to Cy*
My two Zhents,
Caedym Shadowhock
"Greycloak is one of the most traveled regions for a reason (great work Cyric!):"
Greycloak and Jot would be the work of Talos, FYI. Not trying to be a smarty, just getting record straight is all bud. =)
But on the note of Cyric, what I'd like to see, here, on this BBS, from him, would be a break down of the zone creating process. From first approaching the staff (who you'd approach for example), what you'd say. What happens after that? How do you get to the point of implementing the zone on testmud? What forms do you have to fill out and sign? What legalities or rights do you give up? What are the requirements for a new areas builder's zone on Soj? Is there a min room requirement? A max you can't exceed? Details, details. That's wut I'd like to see. I've heard the rumors, but I'd like to know the facts from the man himself. From the humble beginnings to the areas god supervising changes after the zones been play tested to death on main and changes are warranted.
*Hands the mic over to Cy*
My two Zhents,
Caedym Shadowhock
Ruhr:
I agree with your suggestion that there be more grid zones.
Zones like, for instance, the IC vault, were boring cause it was the same thing each time, with the same mobs in the same room, etc.
Grids on the other hand are unpredictable.. and nothing beats a grid for its both difficult and rewarding xp.
I agree with your suggestion that there be more grid zones.
Zones like, for instance, the IC vault, were boring cause it was the same thing each time, with the same mobs in the same room, etc.
Grids on the other hand are unpredictable.. and nothing beats a grid for its both difficult and rewarding xp.
Corth, I'll assume you used the vault merely as an example of a non-grid high-level area, and not because it suffers from some more specific issue.
In defense of non-grid zones:
As a starting principle, the IC vault is not a high-level area. It's not even an area. It's a high level portion within a mid-level zone. The idea was, and still is for me, to include within a mid-level area, certain discrete and isolated high-level portions that will attract high-level players. Why? To encourage high level players to bring along lower level players. How does the vault accomplish that? You don't need an army of 50th level players to _get to_ the vault. You can walk right up to it. How many of you trained on malice, the vault, the archivist, echelon, etc., before you went to places like Jot, Astral, or Tiamat. Thats my theory and I'm stickin to it.
Moreover, non-grid zones can be just as exciting, and just as unpredictable as a grid zone. The trick is to properly control initial mob placement, and runtime mob flow.
This can be accomplished in any number of ways through the use of nothing more than the tools available to every builder. No procs required.
Imagine if an entire high level zone were built using nothing but rare loads and random distribution in a non-grid area. By rare load, I mean say 50%, such that you would never know what mobs will make up the zone, nor would you know where they will load. I can't tell you all the secret builder methods, unless of course you build an area, but I can guarantee you that there are lots of ways to make an area exciting and unpredictable without the use of a grid.
Tempus
P.S.-I'm back
In defense of non-grid zones:
As a starting principle, the IC vault is not a high-level area. It's not even an area. It's a high level portion within a mid-level zone. The idea was, and still is for me, to include within a mid-level area, certain discrete and isolated high-level portions that will attract high-level players. Why? To encourage high level players to bring along lower level players. How does the vault accomplish that? You don't need an army of 50th level players to _get to_ the vault. You can walk right up to it. How many of you trained on malice, the vault, the archivist, echelon, etc., before you went to places like Jot, Astral, or Tiamat. Thats my theory and I'm stickin to it.
Moreover, non-grid zones can be just as exciting, and just as unpredictable as a grid zone. The trick is to properly control initial mob placement, and runtime mob flow.
This can be accomplished in any number of ways through the use of nothing more than the tools available to every builder. No procs required.
Imagine if an entire high level zone were built using nothing but rare loads and random distribution in a non-grid area. By rare load, I mean say 50%, such that you would never know what mobs will make up the zone, nor would you know where they will load. I can't tell you all the secret builder methods, unless of course you build an area, but I can guarantee you that there are lots of ways to make an area exciting and unpredictable without the use of a grid.
Tempus
P.S.-I'm back
I happen to think IC vault is one of the best all time zones (part of zones)... If everything was like astral, i'd go bonkers!!!! The idea of a 50% rareload zone sounds totally kickass IMHO. Something like a forest zone or something that could load a nighttime setting some times with dark elves or goblins or something rarespawned and a daytime setting with normal elves occupying the land, and maybe a dawn or dusk scenario with the 2 clans rareloaded in different places facing off ready for a battle would be a nifty thing to see. 
Invasion r00ls all hell, and I know that that is probably alot of people's favorite run to do.
Dranak holds up a sign that reads 'die!'
Invasion r00ls all hell, and I know that that is probably alot of people's favorite run to do. Dranak holds up a sign that reads 'die!'
Tempus:
First off, glad your back.
Second, I see your point. Although the ic vault does not have any random distribution or rare loads, Other non-grid zones do, and are both fun and challenging. I also agree that a zone like the vault is invaluable as basic training.
On the other hand, and I really have no good explanation for it, I always found the grid zones to be the most fun. Jot for instance is perfect. Astral was also before its valuable equipment was taken away and I couldn't get anyone to follow me there.
Perhaps I feel this way because I was often leading these zones. The grid zones are the most difficult to lead because theres a greater chance of something wandering in during your fight or mem. Astral/air/fire in particular because it could very well be juib or yan or whatever. When I lead a zone like vault it was just a simple progression. There was no creativity in doing a zone like vault after you have done it a few hundred times. Theres just a way to do it and you repeat it over and again. Of course you get spanked from time to time but thats not because the method is wrong.. someone just screwed up or you didn't bring the right people.
Perhaps the best zones are the ones that have both a grid and a set area. I'm thinking now of jot, which has its grid, and its palace. Or that zone which you enter from ethereal (I forget the name). Even brass has a small grid when you first enter the palace where the mobs wander.
Another advantage of the grid is that its the fairest way to get experience. The problem with doing experience in say.. the tower.. is its just a repetitive exercise that puts you to sleep (easy). On the other hand the tower is great for exp because you have a bunch of mobs to kill that are close to each other so you don't have to move very far(efficient). Assuming there is no lag, a competent group could kill stuff all day without running into trouble.
I think experience (not just high level) should be both difficult and efficient. Difficult because after all, it is "experience" and your level should reflect your accomplishments. Efficient because on a practical level, there is no reason to have people spend a lot of time simply moving between mobs, or waiting for mobs to pop.
A grid on the other hand has the best of both worlds. In jot, there are a bunch of good exp mobs that are all close to each other, and yet at any moment a few can walk into you and *splat*. Its difficult and efficient at the same time.
Anyways, just my thoughts on the matter..
Gene
First off, glad your back.
Second, I see your point. Although the ic vault does not have any random distribution or rare loads, Other non-grid zones do, and are both fun and challenging. I also agree that a zone like the vault is invaluable as basic training.
On the other hand, and I really have no good explanation for it, I always found the grid zones to be the most fun. Jot for instance is perfect. Astral was also before its valuable equipment was taken away and I couldn't get anyone to follow me there.
Perhaps I feel this way because I was often leading these zones. The grid zones are the most difficult to lead because theres a greater chance of something wandering in during your fight or mem. Astral/air/fire in particular because it could very well be juib or yan or whatever. When I lead a zone like vault it was just a simple progression. There was no creativity in doing a zone like vault after you have done it a few hundred times. Theres just a way to do it and you repeat it over and again. Of course you get spanked from time to time but thats not because the method is wrong.. someone just screwed up or you didn't bring the right people.
Perhaps the best zones are the ones that have both a grid and a set area. I'm thinking now of jot, which has its grid, and its palace. Or that zone which you enter from ethereal (I forget the name). Even brass has a small grid when you first enter the palace where the mobs wander.
Another advantage of the grid is that its the fairest way to get experience. The problem with doing experience in say.. the tower.. is its just a repetitive exercise that puts you to sleep (easy). On the other hand the tower is great for exp because you have a bunch of mobs to kill that are close to each other so you don't have to move very far(efficient). Assuming there is no lag, a competent group could kill stuff all day without running into trouble.
I think experience (not just high level) should be both difficult and efficient. Difficult because after all, it is "experience" and your level should reflect your accomplishments. Efficient because on a practical level, there is no reason to have people spend a lot of time simply moving between mobs, or waiting for mobs to pop.
A grid on the other hand has the best of both worlds. In jot, there are a bunch of good exp mobs that are all close to each other, and yet at any moment a few can walk into you and *splat*. Its difficult and efficient at the same time.
Anyways, just my thoughts on the matter..
Gene
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