Two Towers (DONT OPEN THREAD IF YOU HAVE NOT SEEN IT!)

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Postby Sarion » Mon Dec 23, 2002 3:15 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Kuurg:
<B>So I just saw it this afternoon. My single problem? why did they give the orcs pikes?! What can stop a calvary charge? pikes! What did the orcs have? pikes! What didn't the pikes do? STOP A CALVARY CHARGE! this makes no sense. Gandalf and the remainder of rohan's riders come pouring over a hill, the orcs set their pikes, and then we see the orc line break. this makes no sense. grrrr.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did you miss the great big rays of sunlight that blinded the orcs, making them wince back and lower their pikes?

-Gerad

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Postby Iktar » Mon Dec 23, 2002 3:31 pm

3 things to point out in the movie from soj3 pespective (nothing to do with book versino! purely my perspective on the movie!)

1. they should've sent elven warrior army, not elven ranger army! (archery!!)
2. if it was elven warrior army, they sure sucked ass.
3. should've sent elven invoker or two instead of army of elfie rangers!!
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Postby Kuurg » Mon Dec 23, 2002 4:11 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Sarion:
<B> Did you miss the great big rays of sunlight that blinded the orcs, making them wince back and lower their pikes?

-Gerad

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I saw the bright light, I saw them wince, I saw the pikes still out in front as the horses crashed into the line.


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Postby Sarvis » Mon Dec 23, 2002 6:04 pm

The thing about pikes is they still need to be pointed towards the horses. When you're blind you can't see the horses, so how are you going to keep the pikes pointed straight at the horses?

Personally I would've liked to see Gandalf lead in with a fireball though. I mean, for the most powerful wizards on Middle Earth they don't do a whole lot of magic. And Arwen (warrior? Ranger?) has still cast the coolest spell in the entire series so far.

Even when fighting the Balrog Gandalf used a sword to do it! I mean come on! What _wizard_ is going to fight a giant fire demon with a sword? Maybe he wouldn't have died if he'd used more than one spell... heh.

I don't know how it works in the books, since I never finished the first one... but I'm pretty dissapointed in the level of "magic" in the movies.

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Postby Ashiwi » Mon Dec 23, 2002 6:56 pm

OMG, LOVED IT!!!

I loved the way they made the movie stand apart from the books as its own entity, and yet still kept almost true to the story. After watching it I looked back and actually thought "I'm glad they left in the Gimli/Legolas deathcount, I would have been disappointed without it." I WISH they would have explained the reason the elven rope hurt Gollum. Gollum was the MOST amazing special effect in the movie. Loved the ents, wish they would have included the whole forest like they were supposed to. Hated what they did to Faramir, think we're all agreed on that. If they don't show Shelob in the next movie I will picket and write nasty letters! They have to show Shelob, because they showed Gladriel giving Frodo the perfume bottle of light.

And if anybody ever asks again why I'm an elf, I can sum that up in four words. "Legolas, hubba hubba hubba."
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Postby Kuurg » Mon Dec 23, 2002 7:00 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Sarvis:
<B>so how are you going to keep the pikes pointed straight at the horses?

Personally I would've liked to see Gandalf lead in with a fireball though. I mean, for the most powerful wizards on Middle Earth they don't do a whole lot of magic. And Arwen (warrior? Ranger?) has still cast the coolest spell in the entire series so far.

Even when fighting the Balrog Gandalf used a sword to do it! I mean come on! What _wizard_ is going to fight a giant fire demon with a sword? Maybe he wouldn't have died if he'd used more than one spell... heh.

I don't know how it works in the books, since I never finished the first one... but I'm pretty dissapointed in the level of "magic" in the movies.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


The butt of a pike is braced against the ground. a person could not absorb the shock of a horse's charge. This is why it matters even less if they're blinded - unless they're reeling backwards, the pike is still planted.

honestly though, it was a minor annoyance that had me going 'whah?' rather than thinking that it detracted terribly from the movie. very small problem.

I was under the impression that it wasn't Arwen's magic, but rather Arwen calling upon Rivendell's defensive spells - but it did kick ass either way.

Magic is a lot less immediate/direct in tolkien's books. Things like the cheesy fight between Saruman and Gandalf where they're knocking each other about with their staves just weren't in there. Still, I understand the need for it in the movie, I just wish it had been a little bit cooler looking since they were taking license anyway. One of the most difficult spells to convey in a movie, but which they mention in the second one, is Saruman's ability to use his voice to control others.

So in the second movie when Gandalf is fighting the Balrog, and there's that lightning flash to his sword, was that a spell he was defending against or is it one he was casting?

I really would've liked to have seen Gandalf casting some force missiles or something...yay.




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Postby Eza » Mon Dec 23, 2002 7:20 pm

I spent a good 2/3 of this movie with my jaw agape. The visuals were amazing, the return of Gandalf, the fight scenes, Legolas with his incredible mount maneuver - I loved it. It strayed from the book, but that's bound to happen. I don't think it took away from the story line at all. I thought it was incredible.

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Postby Sarvis » Mon Dec 23, 2002 8:16 pm

Yes, the pike is planted in the ground... but the person wielding it still has to keep it pointed towards the horse. I mean, if you are pointing something long and heavy at a horse and then suddenly get blinded you will first recoil a little bit. That would move the tip of the pike out of alignment, then you have to try and guess where the horse is... hoping that it hasn't shifted to the side slightly, while blind. Granted, _some_ of the horsemen should have gotten skewered... but most would get through i think.

Though, maybe if he'd used a mass heat metal spell there'd be no debate? Image

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Postby Silsaterur » Mon Dec 23, 2002 11:59 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Sarvis:
<B> Personally I would've liked to see Gandalf lead in with a fireball though. I mean, for the most powerful wizards on Middle Earth they don't do a whole lot of magic.

Even when fighting the Balrog Gandalf used a sword to do it! I mean come on! What _wizard_ is going to fight a giant fire demon with a sword? Maybe he wouldn't have died if he'd used more than one spell... heh.

I don't know how it works in the books, since I never finished the first one... but I'm pretty dissapointed in the level of "magic" in the movies.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Istari (men call them wizards) were actually sent after a desperate attempt to contact the valar (gods) before the first war. They were sent to aid mortal men in overcoming the only truely powerful foe left of them.

However, they were forbidden by the valar from using their powers to intervene. Gandalf didn't use his power to defeat the Balrog, rather he used the power of the ring of fire that was given him by Cirdan. (This is from quenta silmarillion so it's not really a spoiler)


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Postby moritheil » Tue Dec 24, 2002 9:05 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Kossuth:
<B>Yes, it was different from the book.

No, that didn't make it any less entertaining when taken at face value.

-k

P.S. Dwarf tossing goooood.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Must agree with this. Saw it last night.
In re: Faramir, I think the point was the overwhelming lure of the ring. Faramir was proven to be a man of honor in the end, when he sets them free and says "Then my life is forfeit. But let them go."

Overall, I liked the emphasis of the movie. "There is yet hope." "There is good worth fighting for." "Fight!"

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Postby moritheil » Tue Dec 24, 2002 9:10 pm

Oh PS:

You want to nitpick? I had a similar impression in re: the pikemen. Most troops can be overrun by being surrounded, but that many pikemen have a chance of holding off both sides. However, this is ultimately a tale of heroism prevailing over cold hard numbers, and that's what happens.

My other nitpick is one that occurs 99% of the time in movies and anime. Who quenches a sword with water directly? Aren't you supposed to use oil first to avoid making the sword really brittle?

But pretty much everyone makes this mistake, so I don't mind. (Plus, orc swords broke a lot iirc, so this isn't neccessarily an error.)

Isingard = pwn3d. =D

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Postby Gerad » Wed Dec 25, 2002 2:54 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Sarvis:
<B>The thing about pikes is they still need to be pointed towards the horses. When you're blind you can't see the horses, so how are you going to keep the pikes pointed straight at the horses?

Personally I would've liked to see Gandalf lead in with a fireball though. I mean, for the most powerful wizards on Middle Earth they don't do a whole lot of magic. And Arwen (warrior? Ranger?) has still cast the coolest spell in the entire series so far.

Even when fighting the Balrog Gandalf used a sword to do it! I mean come on! What _wizard_ is going to fight a giant fire demon with a sword? Maybe he wouldn't have died if he'd used more than one spell... heh.

I don't know how it works in the books, since I never finished the first one... but I'm pretty dissapointed in the level of "magic" in the movies.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That crystal atop gandolphs staff is something special, I dont remember what it is exactly, but it protects him from fire and stuff like that... also when you talk about lord of the rings, your talking about the books that started the entire fantasy ganre, so you cant really say that its 'lacking' in anything fantasy :P

Man I need to read the last book again.

-Gerad

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Postby old depok » Mon Dec 30, 2002 3:17 pm

Ok just saw the movie Friday. Gotta agree with the Ents and Faramir thing. Really pissed me off. Hated the whole Aragorn over the cliff thing.

The single biggest thing that pissed me off however was the whole Aragorn Liv Tyler thing. I mean come on. I can just see Liv Tyler looking at the script after accepting the part and going to the Director and saying:

"hey, I am a huge actress and deserve a much bigger part. If i don't get it I am walking off the set RIGHT NOW!"

The scene where Aragorn is sleeping in tights and a dress and dreaming of Liv is just wrong. They could have communicated that whole story line with just the pendant he wore.

Sigh if only she got on that damn boat.

Overall a good movie though. The scenery was breathtaking. Really liked the tracking scene when aragorn is putting together what happened to Pipen and Merri.
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Postby Zoldren » Mon Dec 30, 2002 7:24 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gerad:
<B>Heh, as far as legolas not killing the torch guy goes, he DID hit him with like 3 or 4 arrows, including one halfway into his head...

the guy just wasnt going down!

-g

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

this true
but he IS the one who said orc armor was tough, and they had to be hit under the arms or in the neck...

this is also the same elf who shot a goblin at like 200 yards right between they eyes.. yet couldnt hit an orc from << 50 yards in the neck....

would have been more believeable if he droped an orc another picked it up droped him. another picked it up....


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Postby Sarvis » Mon Dec 30, 2002 7:50 pm

I thought a couple arrows _did_ hit it in the neck? Besides, it wasn't wearing a helmet or anything anyway... so an arrow in the domepiece should have worked. Image

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Postby mezheru » Mon Dec 30, 2002 9:52 pm

Okay, now I thought I was bad with analyzing movies to death, but jeez - you guys flip me out. Here we have an absolutely amazing series, doing what nobody has ever done in fantasy (Conan? Willow? Dragonslayer? yeah...right), and everyone is flaming it.

Yes, he panned the camera on the scenery too much, and yep, the ents should have known that Saurumon was cutting down trees, and I agree that the little door in Helm's deep was kinda silly....but the movie ruled, the series rules, Peter Jackson casted and directed a wonderful piece of work that that silly cartoon could only hope to be, and I'm going to be standing in line tomorrow for my ticket to Return of the King dressed like an elf queen, I'm so damn excited.

down with evil,
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Postby Tasan » Mon Dec 30, 2002 11:48 pm

Ok my thoughts:

The straying from the book, overall fairly necessary to keep with time constraints, so I believe Jackson did a good job there.

The Door at Helm's Deep was located on the inside edge of a parapit, which was on a small precipice seperated from the upward sloping pathway to the outer gate. Hence why Gimli must be thrown to the pathway. The orcs could not get around the pathway because of the precipice, hence they couldn't reach that particular door. Doors like that were common in castles as well, as an extra preventative measure. They were usually fairly well concealed by masons to appear as solid wall.

The Osgiliath scene made me want to puke. There was no reason to have a Nazgul appear like that and have Frodo stunned by the ring. I think his resistance to it's power was downplayed too much.

I really liked Gollum/Smeagol, and his inner fight with himself. Was really well done.

Aragorn doing his own "Gladiator" impression made me want to wretch. Totally unnecessary, and didn't really build his character at all.

Theoden was portrayed in an odd way. In the book, Aragorn agrees to ride w/ him upon his request. He does not insist that he ride. Just a small change however, but it does cast doubt on Theoden's character.

As for some of the questions posed by other people:

Shelob will come. It makes sense to start the 3rd movie with this, seeing as MUCH of the 3rd book is dialogue and the movement to Gondor to prepare for the battle. I believe it will allow the movie to be more enjoyable in the end. Also, he leaves you thinking about what Gollum has meant by "she" if you haven't read the books(which is something he has had to keep in mind this whole time).

The thing between Aragorn and Eowyn is more of a fraternal kinship. I believe he thinks of her more as a sister than anything, and is pained by her coldness.

Aragorn is not involved in the fight with the witchking, Theoden is killed by him(indirectly, squashed by Snowmane) and Eowyn dies in slaying it(help by Merry).

Overall, I liked the movie, but I was disappointed with a few aspects, so I suppose I would give it a fair rating.

Twinshadow

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Postby Guest » Tue Dec 31, 2002 12:23 am

'There is yet hope'?!

Who's going to save them? The humans, that's who. And every human, save maybe Eowyn, is a sniveler, a back-stabber, or some such.

Peter Jackson decided that the emphasis of the book was that humans are weak. It's true, humans *are* weak in the storyline, but not *that* weak.

And by the way, on Theoden... um... Helm's Deep wasn't a retreat in the book, it was between Edoras and Isengard. He wasn't running away, he was challenging Saruman. And he sent the women and children to the mountains, didn't bring them with him.

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Postby Sarvis » Tue Dec 31, 2002 12:33 am

I haven't seen Aragorn snivel once, or backstab anyone. Image

Err... who's Eowyn?

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Postby sok » Tue Dec 31, 2002 2:48 am

well i went to watch it a second time and keep in mind all these post and criticism. dude watching a move from a good seat is so much more amazing then from the 2nd row.

horse and pikeman. when gandalf use the light, some pike remain planted and some just stood straight up. some of the horses were speared but most made it through.

the side door. ] they came out from the north end or top of the ]. the orcs were too busy trying to get through the gates and didn't have time to search out the door. saruman knew the weakness of helmdeep and the side door wasn't mention. there was a gully they had to jump.

treant attacking saruman. i think someone mention the timetable of movies. they couldn't have done the battle of helmdeep as long if they had to travel from helmdeep to isangard. less travel more battle. give & take. and if u watch any kung fu movie you know how powerful the revenge factor works.

the love story is for the chickaboos. demography showed that lotrI had low female turnout. so they need one to get the ladies to show up. what those guys dont know yet, is that all mudder/role-player/etc are actually guys pretending to be girls. til i see liv tyler nekkid, i'm gonna believe its a guy w/ lots of makeup

i paid closer attention to gimli & his disalogue. he wasn't as bad as i thought. i think it's because i knew the lines after already watching it and was able to figure if any other dialogue wouldn't have worked better. i really couldn't and it didnt' really downplay his char.

if you are critical of the movie, you should prolly watch it a 2nd time. i think it change your preception.
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Postby Guest » Tue Dec 31, 2002 4:07 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by sok:
<B>the love story is for the chickaboos. demography showed that lotrI had low female turnout. so they need one to get the ladies to show up. what those guys dont know yet, is that all mudder/role-player/etc are actually guys pretending to be girls. til i see liv tyler nekkid, i'm gonna believe its a guy w/ lots of makeup
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thought all 3 movies was filmed before released?
Or do you mean the turnout of the staff watching it as it was being filmed?


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Postby Gerad » Tue Dec 31, 2002 5:02 am

If you have seen Army of Darkness, and then watched the directors cut, you know that its how a film is edited that makes all the difference... you can change the whole feel of the film, from serious to comedy, or action to romance, with simply what you do or do not include in the final theater cut.

-Gerad

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Postby Guest » Tue Dec 31, 2002 8:36 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Sarvis:
<B>
I haven't seen Aragorn snivel once, or backstab anyone. Image

Err... who's Eowyn?

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Go watch the first movie again, and pay attention to the scenes in Rivendell. He's completely unsure of himself, he thinks he'll succumb to the power of the ring.

Eowyn is the 'shieldmaiden of Rohan' that Aragorn fawns over a bit much. He certainly was impressed with her in the book, but not to the point of having conversations with her.



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Postby Iaiken Toransier » Tue Dec 31, 2002 3:13 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Azuth:
<B> Thought all 3 movies was filmed before released?
Or do you mean the turnout of the staff watching it as it was being filmed?


</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

All three movies have been filmed.

They are just doing all of the digital media and CGI now.

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Postby Rellanor » Tue Dec 31, 2002 5:46 pm

first off the maid part of all 3 movies are done but each movie has some scenes added the spring/summer before it comes out to refine the movie.

the thing I hated about the elves coming to helms deep is not that they where not ents. If you recall the ents only came after the battle was near the end and they only hearded the hourns (trees that come to life full of hate, or ents that have gone treeish and are filled with hate of all who hurt trees.) the hourns killed all the orcs that tried to flee from the charge of thoeden and gandalf. what no one has mentioned is that the Elves should Have been Dunadane warriors of the North Kingdom. (Aragorns people) They are the only people other than the original fellowship who would follow Aragorn into the paths of the dead. That is a huge part of book 3 so now we have no dunadane to help Aragorn.

faramir isn't even worth the effort to complain even his freeing of frodo in the end seemed motavated by fear of the power of the shadow to take the ring-bearer more than nobility.

The Ents looked great but thats where they stoped Jackson didn't even attempt to contain the essence of an Ent. An ent is like a force of nature. It is slow and calm and peacful untill it has been pushed too far then when it has had too much it breaks on what ever threatens it with the force of all of nature.

the visuals where great but jackson needs to work harder to capture the books
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Postby Kuurg » Tue Dec 31, 2002 6:09 pm

I'm so glad these movies were made. They are well paced, which is something one can't even say of the books themselves! I agree with the previous post, though, about Jackson failing to represent the Ents accurately. Sure they 'looked' neat, but there was so much that could've been done with them, that wasn't.

One of the most moving parts for me, in the books, was the war-chant of the Ents as they were marching to Isengard. It was so bitter-sweet. They're the most tragic characters in the books. They don't sail west, all their women have been lost ages ago, their world is collapsing around them and they bear it all stoically. I wish a bit more of that was captured in the movie.
Cinematically they rock, now make them easier to identify with.

Something I liked in the first that I thought was lacking in the second: the bonding. I loved the playful interaction between merry and pippin and boromir when they're 'training', the moments after Gandalf's fall, the moments where we see the depth of Samwise' attachment to Frodo. It's the strength that exists in Men that balances their changeable natures - it seemed to me that Peter Jackson, either intentionally or unwittingly, it doesn't matter which, captured what was both best and worst about Men in the first movie. -- That seemed to be missing from the second.

I'm going back. and I hope the 'extended' version of the two towers is as good as the extended version of the fellowship. I'm eagerly anticipating it already.


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Postby Kuurg » Tue Dec 31, 2002 6:10 pm

Did anyone else notice that Treebeard sounded eerily like the rock biter from The Neverending Story?

"They look like good...strong hands."

[This message has been edited by Kuurg (edited 12-31-2002).]
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Postby Ionari » Tue Dec 31, 2002 7:04 pm

LOTR2 SUCKED! ):


[This message has been edited by Ionari (edited 12-31-2002).]
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Postby Xisiqomelir » Wed Jan 01, 2003 11:42 am

Itchy and Jeg are absolutely spot on about the weird motivational changes, I dunno why they did that.

BUT

This movie was a heluva spectacle, I absolutely loved it.

The only sad part is that the uruk-hai sapper was so ungodly godlike; practically naked, covered in warpaint, muscled like a Greek sculpture, shot TWICE by fantasy superhero Legolas (sorry Aedwyn Image ) and still blowing the outer wall so bad that Jericho looked like sandcastle-demolition, that I know Dartana and Rokububub will not shut up about Orc superiority for months to come Image

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Postby ssar » Wed Jan 08, 2003 11:49 am

Triple J FM Radio is kinda the "Youth" radio network, linked to the country-wide ABC here in Australia. Thier website is: http://www.abc.net.au/triplej/default.htm

I'm quite a fan of JJJ radio, as it's mostly commercial-free, and has lots of cool segments and interactive promotions etc.

Thier film reviewer however, has proven to be quite strange in her reviews sometimes, and her analyses of the LOTR films really has shown what a shallow and likely drag queen she is..

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If you died and went to heaven when Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring was released this time last year, chances are you will do it all over again for Lord of the Rings: Two Towers,the second installment in the mega movie franchise. New Zealand director Peter Jackson and his company have produced a film much akin to the first as it is another 3 hour, high-end medieval epic which takes us closer to the perils of Middle Earth.

The narrative net is cast wider in Two Towers. It incorporates new characters such as Gollum/Smeagol (the somewhat schizoid fallen hobbit and former keeper of the Ring), walking and talking giant tree shepherds, and a few Aussie actors, namely David Wenham and Miranda Otto as Faramir and Eowyn respectively.

Story wise, Gandalf (Ian McKellen) goes from "the Grey" to "the White" in Two Towers, resurrected to save the day as a grand white knight figure. Sam (Sean Astin) and Frodo's (Elijah Wood) quest to destroy the Ring is interrupted more than once by all manner of enemy, while the evil Saruman (Christopher Lee) masterminds a spectacular battle against Theoden, King of Rohan, intending to "destroy the world of men" once and for all.

Two Towers is a technically better film than Fellowship. Noticeably the special and visual effects are superior to LOTR I, and the digital figures are far more 'human' than anything George Lucas could ever muster. Visually there is a magical luminosity brought to the faces of the pivotal characters involved; a 'heavenly' white light bathes many a face, eyes become bluer and 'purer'… Jackson ensures Tolkien's characters are deified on the screen, something sure to have pleased the old Catholic.

But unfortunately - and all apologies here, much good it will do me - the power of the Ring still didn't touch yours truly. Going in, wanting to be entertained, enthralled, made to care, just wasn't enough. Two Towers is spectacular, but without a decent screenplay it was such a waste, for this non-card-carrying Tolkienite. (see The Brotherhood of the Wolf for a spectacularly good parallel adventure film). Again, the onus is on the film and filmmakers to do all the work, to develop the characters, to provide the back-story and so forth, regardless of whether or not one has read the books.

Above and beyond, maybe it is just that, like Star Wars before it, Lord Of The Rings isn't a myth I find interesting or universal enough to buy into. Fellowship of the Ring didn't ring my bell and neither did Two Towers, other than a few un-PC dwarf tossing jokes, Brad Dourif's creepy Grima Wormtongue (god bless him!), and Sam and Frodo finally declaring their undying love for each other. (Seriously, they came close to pashing in that last scene. Seal it with a kiss hobbits!).

Were it not so conservative and pious, a queer reading of the Lord Of The Rings might finally make these movies within reach.

Lord of the Rings, a queer trilogy? I'd pay to see that...

2 ½ stars

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(The 2.5 stars is out of 5, btw)

Also, I have read other people's reviews of the LOTR films likening the hobbits' friendliness with each other to homosexuality.

To me, this is damn pathetic.
Even the suggestion of slight "queer" factors in any of the characters in arguably the best fantasy films of all time is not only a blatant slap in the face to Tolkein, but grossly disrespectful and offensive for fantasy fans such as myself.

The Hobbit and LOTR books are timeless classic fantasy fiction, filled with delight, adventure and warm-hearted character development; which were written in a time way before the definition of queer had anything to do with a mardi gras or the term fag.
To even refer to these movies using such modern day terminology proves what a fool the reviewer is.

*swat*

2.5 stars!?!? More likie 4.5 stars biatch.

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Mogr -=BloodSeeker=-
"If it bleeds, we can killit."
Kossuth OOC: 'haha, the combination unibrow/combover... i hear gargauth has that'
Sadric
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Postby Sadric » Thu Jan 09, 2003 12:57 am

apparently she's not the only one that got that impression from sam & frodo, both in the movies and in the books.

you might ask pheten about that particular impression from the books Image and I've seen it posted about in quite a few different places, again talking about both movies and books. *shrug*
Sarvis
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Postby Sarvis » Thu Jan 09, 2003 1:13 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by kwirlkarphys:
<B>without quoting a million different psych books, everyone's picture of sam and frodo as 'queer' is simply sexual insecurity.

sam and frodo at NO point display homosexual or 'queer' tendencies to the other, the only form of bonding they do is that of a master and his loyal follower, thrust into an epic struggle beyond either of their half-sizes bodies. they develop a bond and friendship that is quite the opposite of anything homosexual in fact, and their friendship is a token of the heterosexuality that these internet losers are so quick to embrace.

Look, they hugged! They are gay! I can't say as I have ever hugged a man, but if my only friend in the world was giving his life to help me give my own, in an act of noble sacrifice to save something greater, I don't think I'd be ashamed to hug him and say 'Thank you.'

However, the perennial 12 years old cyberia would probably think that is queer, also.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Master and his follower you say? Wonder where they keep the whips and chains... Image

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Every problem in the universe can be solved by finding the right long-haired prettyboy and beating the crap out of him.

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