Level 47-50

Archive of the Sojourn3 General Discussion Forum.
Dalar
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Level 47-50

Postby Dalar » Mon Jan 06, 2003 11:23 pm

Is it just me or are these levels WAY harder than they should be? For casters that is. As a 47 shaman I have to kill like 100 lvl 50-54 mobs solo just to hit a level.

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Postby rylan » Tue Jan 07, 2003 12:19 am

Shrug, they were made harder a while back to make up for levels 1-46 being something like 10% easier to get.
Guest

Postby Guest » Tue Jan 07, 2003 12:21 am

Remember, we decreased the XP required for levels 1-45 by 10% across the board and then adjusted levels 46-50 so that the total XP required after the change would be the same as the required before.

In effect, we "backloaded" some of the XP requirements to hit level 50. So it may seem like those levels are much slower than levels 1 to 45 -- because they are.

In any event, I don't really see the fact that 100 solo kills are required to advance a level between 46-50 as a problem, since at that stage of the game a large percentage of people's XP will come from zoning anyway.

--D2

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Postby Rokub » Tue Jan 07, 2003 12:42 am

I'm confused why you are saying that dartan, because shaman experience at level 50 is VERY easy for me.


Rokub

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Dalar
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Postby Dalar » Tue Jan 07, 2003 1:11 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by D2:
<B>Remember, we decreased the XP required for levels 1-45 by 10% across the board and then adjusted levels 46-50 so that the total XP required after the change would be the same as the required before.

In effect, we "backloaded" some of the XP requirements to hit level 50. So it may seem like those levels are much slower than levels 1 to 45 -- because they are.

In any event, I don't really see the fact that 100 solo kills are required to advance a level between 46-50 as a problem, since at that stage of the game a large percentage of people's XP will come from zoning anyway.

--D2

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

this is assuming u actually live through the whole zone and the zone actually has xp. also it depends what class you are. memming out pwns. after 5 hours of zoning i gained 14% w/out dying with dartana in TTf.

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Dalar
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Postby Dalar » Tue Jan 07, 2003 1:13 am

exp is easy to get. getting alot is the tough part. it's just so mindnumbingly slow now

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Postby Gerad » Tue Jan 07, 2003 5:13 am

I exp in zones as a shaman. The secret? Avoid spank with word :P

g

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Postby Gort » Tue Jan 07, 2003 5:18 am

I'm sorry D, but you complaining about xp is like Bill Gates saying he doesn't make enough money.

I understand you love the game, and play ALOT, but really, that means aside from the boredom bit, you get more xp than the average Joe just by being on more. The change was put in, at the suggestion of many high levels and low levels alike to try to bring more folks into the game, and make it easier to acclimate to.

Someone as experienced and knowledgable as you in the game shouldn't feel put out by the loading of the xp, but should take it in stride, knowing that you're not doing more work to get the same results, but rather you're getting your top circle earlier than you would've before, and have access to better things earlier.

In short, as Monty Python said, "Always look on the bright side of life. *whistles*"

Toplack

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Postby Dalar » Tue Jan 07, 2003 5:55 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gort:
<B>I'm sorry D, but you complaining about xp is like Bill Gates saying he doesn't make enough money.

I understand you love the game, and play ALOT, but really, that means aside from the boredom bit, you get more xp than the average Joe just by being on more. The change was put in, at the suggestion of many high levels and low levels alike to try to bring more folks into the game, and make it easier to acclimate to.

Someone as experienced and knowledgable as you in the game shouldn't feel put out by the loading of the xp, but should take it in stride, knowing that you're not doing more work to get the same results, but rather you're getting your top circle earlier than you would've before, and have access to better things earlier.

In short, as Monty Python said, "Always look on the bright side of life. *whistles*"

Toplack

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

someone as experienced and knowledge as you in this game should realize that you are in fact doing more work for level 50 than before. exp at lower levels is MUCH easier than doing exp at 47-50. between 1-25 mobs can barely hit -100 ac. between 25-40 u can make a 4 man group and own mobs 45+. this means that in the earlier levels, exp is much easier. making 47-50 10% harder or whatever means u gotta kill that many more 47-50 mobs. also, the rate at which you die is much higher in high levels than lower levels.

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Postby Corth » Tue Jan 07, 2003 6:04 am

I'm just gonna concentrate on the exp is mindnumbing part. Image

How would it be bad for the mud in any way if it took half as long as it currently does to get to level 50? Nobody learns much of anything exp'ing anyway. Whatever it is you do learn could be accomplished even when you level quicker. Sure you would get some more level 50 newbies but so what? They have always been around. And besides, most of the people on this mud have been around a long time and will quickly master their new class. Loss of exp from death and failed res's would be less onerous, but would still mean something. I.e, players wouldnt just throw themselves at the mobs.. they would still want to stay alive.

I cant really think of any reason why we shouldn't make leveling significantly easier..

Corth

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Goddamned slippery mage.

[This message has been edited by Corth (edited 01-07-2003).]
Dalar
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Postby Dalar » Tue Jan 07, 2003 6:11 am

just lower the amount of 47-50 exp or give us a bonus of exp for having more people in group. there is no encouragement to group beyond 5 people.

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Postby Rokub » Tue Jan 07, 2003 6:38 am

At Level 50, even a enchanter who are the hardest class in the game to level, can make 1 > a hr on smoke plane. That being said is enough to get anyone to level 50 pretty easily, its just about the time you have to contribute to exping. If you don't have it, you don't get level 50, if you do, you get level 50...


Personally I don't really see where yall are coming from, other then saying you have to contribute mindnumbing hours to experienceing. But you are forgetting that is the point of experience, and the gods don't want getting to level 50 to be that easy...

If I'm missing something from what yall are trying to preach explain it, thanks.

Rokub

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Postby Corth » Tue Jan 07, 2003 7:12 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Rokub:
<B>
Personally I don't really see where yall are coming from, other then saying you have to contribute mindnumbing hours to experienceing. But you are forgetting that is the point of experience, and the gods don't want getting to level 50 to be that easy...
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So the point of experience is to contribute mindnumbing hours to experience. That explains it!

Maybe im overlooking something or being silly but I can't figure out why the gods would want people to spend dozens of hours doing something that is commonly described as 'mindnumbing' only to be able to eventually play the game (zone).

And maybe you simply have more time on your hands then i do, but regardless, sitting around on smoke plane getting 2% of a level an hour just doesn't sound acceptable... Btw, how many level 50 chars do you have? I've never had a level 50 char, does that make me inferior to you?

Corth

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Goddamned slippery mage.
Guest

Postby Guest » Tue Jan 07, 2003 7:37 am

This is just my personal opinion (not reflecting on any other Gods)...

but, ya know, there are LOTS of zones that are not level 50, that have eq, that are just as fun as the others...

Maybe the point of having levels at all is so that we can make different challenge points for different people, at different times, with different likes and dislikes...

Exp is an easy enough way to keep it...if you want to rush up and get to level 50, fine, you can...its not the most exciting thing, but for you, no exp will ever be exciting, you just want power.

Lots of people enjoy the lower level game, myself included.

Just my thoughts.

-G

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Postby Corth » Tue Jan 07, 2003 7:59 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gargamel
you just want power.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My original response to this wasn't nice so i have edited it out...

The rest of your post would make sense if in fact there really were any low level zones that people bothered to do at low levels. In reality, authentic noobs are wearing jot leftovers that cant even be sold for plat, and most low levels are wearing good equipment from the hardest of zones. You gonna tell them to go after that bullette shield? hahaha

Corth

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Goddamned slippery mage.

[This message has been edited by Corth (edited 01-07-2003).]
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Postby Sarell » Tue Jan 07, 2003 8:25 am

With regard to current status of exp difficulty I think places dedicated to exp like DS and ship hurt the mud. People dont learn lots and lots about the game there, it is generally just days and days of boredom compared to zoning.

I would like to see trophy made so that it actually means something, Sorry you have been on ship for 24 hours (1440 hours / 60 days gametime) no more eeps for you kind of thing. Oky so you have learned the basic spells to cast for your class now go out and zone. Since exp would then be a lot harder because zone exp is <<<<<<<< than ship/DS the exp tables could be lowered / amount of exp from mobs raised.

So the result I percieve would be that people would have to start zoning earlier. This would be fun. And by zoning I don't mean going to the big name brand zones, I mean even if it is simply smiting some stuff in demi / dusk road / UD / etc for good exp that comes along a different way.

Make Trophy Hard!

-----(in order to)---->

Downgrade ship*, upgrade everything else!

*note ship now also includes smoke and DS.


PS: I do think Dartan is absolutely correct in the exp changes however. Mobs are easier at lower level, and you get bigger exp rewards also. lvl 30 group, do DS... lvl 50 group ..still doin DS... shrug.

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Postby Gerad » Tue Jan 07, 2003 11:36 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gargamel:
<B>This is just my personal opinion (not reflecting on any other Gods)...

but, ya know, there are LOTS of zones that are not level 50, that have eq, that are just as fun as the others...

Maybe the point of having levels at all is so that we can make different challenge points for different people, at different times, with different likes and dislikes...

Exp is an easy enough way to keep it...if you want to rush up and get to level 50, fine, you can...its not the most exciting thing, but for you, no exp will ever be exciting, you just want power.

Lots of people enjoy the lower level game, myself included.

Just my thoughts.

-G

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with you garg, if we had a much larger playerbase, id probably have a level 20ish of every last class...

Gerad "the only one who wants a pwipe" Dreamingwolf

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Postby Ashiwi » Tue Jan 07, 2003 2:33 pm

First the exp tables were lowered overall, then other little tricks were tossed in to help casters level a bit faster, then exp was reweighted to allow for easier leveling at lower levels....

And at each stage people thanked the staff, said how great it was and enjoyed it for a short time before starting to complain again that it just wasn't enough. Surely you can see the trend here? "I don't want to do it, don't make me, I want to have all my skills when I start and be able to zone immediately."

Of course we all want more immediate gratification, nobody likes doing the work to get the rewards, right? Seriously Corth, and give this some thought, even if exp tables were halved how long do you think it would be before people started complaining that it was still too much?

We have people that can get fully dressed and get the first 20 levels in less than two hours, but instead they kill off their original character, reroll, have their names changed, and ress into the level whatever corpse in order to skip that two hours. Nobody wants to have to do experience because that's the work behind the rewards of being high level.

The more you take away from the work aspect, the less the reward is going to mean, and the more devalued each aspect of the game is going to become.
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Postby thanuk » Tue Jan 07, 2003 2:38 pm

I gotta agree with Sarell here. I feel like the real problem with exp is people find the most efficient way to do exp the fastest, and with that being their only goal get caught in the same runs over and over and over. It seemed to have all started way back with the tower, which at one point had decent eq in it...shiny golden boots used to be the end all eq for all melee. People figured out that the mobs there had good exp and just kept doing them over and over and over. At one point these people were punished by the implementing of trophy(same can be said of LH elites and MS wizards pre-moonshae changes), but it seems that this method of exping has become such an accepted part of the game that they have made zones like smoke and ship to cater to it.

I disagree with this concept. If the point of exping is to learn how to play, then what is the benefit of having zones like this that leave you to fight the same 8 mobs in a totally safe environment over and over? There is very little risk in any of these zones at all, and the exp is probably better than what one would get in a zone. This is the reason exp becomes mindnumbingly boring; theres really no chance of dying, and after 2 runs you know exactly what to do. As we have all learned, the only way to get people to do things the intended way instead of the fastest way is to force them, so i think zones like this are contradictory to the concept of exping in general. If your going to make zones that have high exp that everyone is going to just sit in, why not just make exp easier? Well exp doesn't really need to be easier, so why have these zones at all?

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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Tue Jan 07, 2003 2:53 pm

Hi. My name is Arilin, and I'm a noob.

Level 48.
Playing time: 45 days / 21 hours/ 17 minutes

I loath, and abhor exp. I would rather spend my days idling in numerous different spots talking to my friends, or doing anything with my guild be it cc, or prancing around like elves. It'd be nice to see exp lowered for that last 1.7 levels I need to get before I need to get four more. Do I think it'll happen? Probably not.

What was the point of this post?
Oh yeah.. I hate exp.


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Postby belleshel » Tue Jan 07, 2003 4:19 pm

Trophy should mean a heck of a lot more, anytime you hit 3% or higher (after level 20) 0 exps. Ship, Smoke, DS ruined the lower levels Image.

Belle
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Postby Gyrx » Tue Jan 07, 2003 4:41 pm

Personally, I'd like to see all 40+ zones have their exp upgraded.
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Postby Tovar » Tue Jan 07, 2003 4:52 pm

EXP is fine as is....yes it takes a long time and yes it's a pain in the ass. While it is mind numbingly boring at times, making 0% exp for anything over 3.0% trophy is not the answer...nor is downgrading any of the spots. If you want to take a new player to a smaller zone where they can "cut their teeth" on different tactical fights or what not...that's a different kind of "experience". Downgrading isn't the answer...many good zones have been fux0red by this (Havenport anyone).
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Postby Dlur » Tue Jan 07, 2003 5:32 pm

I hate exp as much as the next person, and generall refuse to do it after level 40 unless I'm helping someone or exceedingly bored.

I do, however, love to zone, and get exp from zoning. I love doing CC for exp and seeing if I can notch from skeletal knights before I get summoned by a ghast and die. I love doing exp on Jot grid, but now with the trolls there, this isn't nearly as easy to do anymore. Yet even though exping on the Jot grid was made more difficult to do, and even though Jot grid exp had a tendancy to still be dangerous and teach new players how to do their job new zones were implemented with much better, much easier, and insanely less dangerous exp.

Sure it makes sense that smoke should have exp, but at least throw a few aggro mobs up there that load all the time, and make them repop. Make an aggro that could possibly load on the ship, or make the ship load aggro at boot and it has to be cleared before the innane exp mobs are free for the slaughter. Put some aggro orc invasion force to load in Druid Sanctuary from time to time. Exp without risk is boring as hell, and that's why it's mind-numbingly boring.

Note that I don't think exp before level 20 should be overly dangerous, and I don't think all exp should be dangerous, but at least like the Tower of high sorcery has some guards that you either have to blind or you take the risk of fleeing into one if a fight goes bad (like if your cleric goes linkdead or something) and there are other mobs that you can run into that are aggro, like spectres or krakken. I don't think that any zone should be a totally exp orientated zone, and that's all that the ship is, and it makes me sick. If you hopped on board a pirate ship, don't you think they'd be a little angry at you for boarding their ship without permission?

My 2 cents.

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Postby Marforp » Tue Jan 07, 2003 8:01 pm

First, I don't see a real harm in making 1-20 do able by noobies in an evening or two (meaning insanely quick for the non-noobs). The rest of it I see no problem with.

Secondly, I agree with the mighty Dlur.

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Postby sok » Tue Jan 07, 2003 8:52 pm

dlur makes some good points. however much i hate to do xp i believe xp has never been easier. ship, smoke, ds blows away ms wizard, lh elites, tower xp. of course those are still decent.

folks are lvling faster w all the decent eq being given out & more experience player-base. the reduction of xp mades u get the better spells easier. stone, full heal, better offensive.

i disagree with dartan about harder xp at higher lvl. i remember my first char took me forever to get from 27 to 28, i think 1 month. knowledge is hugh. just because u have it doesn't mean everyone does. alway with the connections most of the high lvl folks have, it so easy to get plvl.

if the gods decide to lower xp more i say great, just means i can have more high lvl alts. if they do not, which i think they shouldn't, i can live with spending a couple more days on ship/ds/smoke to get from 49 to 50.

sok

ps if u wanna make the great easier get rid of spell quest. i hate them.
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Postby Gort » Tue Jan 07, 2003 8:52 pm

The thing I was mostly getting at is something that D2 said, the total amount of xp needed for level 50 remained static, but the loading of it changed. In essence it takes the same amount of time to get 50 as it did before, its just easier to get to 46.

Several classes begin zoning at or about level 41, for them, xp from "runs" is less necessary if the "real" game is zoning once they reach 41-42.

That being said, I would like to see things like ship/smoke/druid sanctuary either made a touch more challenging for groups, or made to teach more zone necessary skills.

On a solo basis, DS can be pretty interesting. I got a couple levels there doing that mostly (between zones) and with just me and my little bear, it could get pretty intense, not the spam intense of some zones, just the one person with a pet intense.

I would like to see more "lesson" mobs in areas like this, and I imagine that kind of thing may be being worked on.

I agree with Garg and Ashiwi on leaving the amount of xp needed where it is, and the trend when things change.


Toplack

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Postby Jurdex » Wed Jan 08, 2003 1:01 am

This is merely my opinion..

The insane amount of exp needed on this mud for certain classes eventually is taking its toll on the game as a whole.

Once upon a time, this was arguably the best mud out there (and for a text mud, likely still is), thus people were willing and even drawn to the challenge of leveling up and proving your worth and exploring the world..

Exp and making level 50 meant something.

It doesn't anymore. It means that you had a lot of free time and basically did ship or smoke for a really long time. Big deal?

The fact that exp is so hard robs the mud of a lot of part-time players that are forced to either exp a heckuva lot in order to zone (widely considered "the fun" of the mud) or basically not play at all. Many are almost precluded from the former and by process of elimination end up with the latter. They do not play.

And the playerbase weakens. If there are more available people to zone, there will be more leaders. With more leaders and followers, there will be more activity at the high end of the mud. This is key (partly because the low end of the mud is nonexistant) because the high end of the mud is where the focus always is.

Rivalries are good, but without a new influx of a lot of players, there really is none to be had. Times change. There are a plethora of new games flooding the market for people to choose from. I find myself more willing to committ to a 30 minute warcraft3 game than an exp group or a zone group. I know others who are as well, and at the end of that warcraft3 game they feel like they accomplished something with their time. Spending 30 minutes of exp on the mud is pretty pointless, especially at the high levels.

Now, you can disregard my post and make a derogatory comment at the end (as you did to Corth), or you can actually try and understand what other's are saying and consider it rationally. The choice is yours, either way I gain nothing from it.

Dornax
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Postby Malacar » Wed Jan 08, 2003 4:08 am

Gah, I am agreeing with Dornax.

The world is ending. Image

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Postby Fripple » Wed Jan 08, 2003 4:24 am

I only have my views to add here. No real solution.

I have a number of classes/characters.

I only zone now for easy or hard CRs, and to help out the few people I call friends, as Fripple. Why? Because I have failed 10% of my resses - which cost me 12-13 notches each time. If I make ress, I lose 2-3 notches. As a chanter, I never get exp if I am doing my job right (chanters should blur the tanks :-P and make sure everyone lives). So that one (1) hour per notch system makes me autoignore tells from anyone not from the prementioned group of players. Also, it makes me a bitter person.

BTW, my other classes tend to enjoy zoning. Why? Because worst case is break even on exp. I doubt I am the majority, but I see similar situations occur in other people. Feeling they have to go help some crapper kill a dragon that gets them killed costs them a couple hours. If it happens a couple times, you lose a player to Madden 2003 (true story).

I am also a perfectionist. I think I am just getting too old.


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Postby Tanji Smanji » Wed Jan 08, 2003 5:28 am

When Corth, Dornax and Malacar ALL AGREE on something one should give it some serious thought...

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Postby Sarell » Wed Jan 08, 2003 6:56 am

Exp isnt hard I think everyone agrees. It is just a huge pointless epic. People are saying that there is no problem with exp then pointing out that zones that were onces great exp places are never visited anymore cos of ship/DS/smoke. This leads me to belive the time investment would be the same if trophy was upped A LOT and tables/exp recieved for kills reduced/upped.

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Postby Gerad » Wed Jan 08, 2003 8:52 am

The reason that you have to do exp is so that you can learn to use the skills and tricks of the class that you are playing...

Nothing pisses me off in the game more than someone who was powerleveled and has no clue at all whats going on around them, and in all my days I have seem some REALLY bad cases, stories that you guys would not even believe were I to tell them.

I hate exp too, I like the low end game because everything is different, its not just doing the same zones over and over,

But the only way to really zone, is to know your class. Everyone thats been around awhile, especially as long as I have, has a newbie sensor, and its almost instant. We can pin a newbie down in like a minute, and im not saying I dont like new players, quite the contrary, I love having more people in the game, but,

when your level 40+, and ive got you pegged that way in brass, and your messing around because you dont know the *BASIC* stuff about your class (im not talking about having skill in what your doing, im talking about the stuff you learn exping to 40), it drives everyone crazy.

In short, the reason for exp, is so that you can learn to play the high level game. Your learning it on the way up.

For example, on chaos christmass, I rolled a rogue (a class i havent played in 6 years) and leveled it to 50...

...and I didnt even have any idea what skills to ask for, because ive never leveled a rogue.

In short, the exp tables are fine how they are. If anything, they should be harder. They used to be a _LOT_ harder than they are now, because it didnt used to be about just being able to zone, and level 25 was as fun as 50.

Indeed, it is now. I wish it was way harder to level, i wish it was three times as hard, then people wouldnt have like 3 level 40+ characters laying around.

Downgrade exp.

Gerad "Pwipe? Hell yeah!" Dreamingwolf

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Auril tells you 'Yes, we're plotting the destruction of all that is holy - and unholy, too. Just to be thorough.'
Sarell
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Postby Sarell » Wed Jan 08, 2003 12:37 pm

precisely, you dont learn didly about your class doing 5 days of ship, a rogue doesn't even have to be there!

An enchanter you can stone and maybe haste and be set. You dont learn anything about tactics, fighting groups, paying attention to detail, etc. etc. Exp atm is just a time thing, othwerwise why do you see lvl 50 newbie? They certainly didn't get 'powerlevel' from 46-50. They sat on ship mindlessly for a week. If you upgrade trophy people will have to zone to get exp. Even if this is harder I would think it a good thing. However I think that the exp tables would need to be lowered a little or hardly anyone especially not tanks/corth would see level 50.

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Jegzed
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Postby Jegzed » Wed Jan 08, 2003 1:43 pm

I think zones like Smoke Plane, Ship and DS is ruining the mud.

Smoke plane and DS is designed to work around the current trophy system with multiple instances of mobs with similar name and stats to avoid using the same trophy slot.

If zones like that were yanked, and exp for some zones like Muspelheim and Clouds were upgraded, we'd see the 40+ exp truly MEAN something other than "I got x hours to spend semi-afk doing exp each day"

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/Jegzed - Sorcere Master - Crimson Coalition
Tovar
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Postby Tovar » Wed Jan 08, 2003 2:57 pm

I'm not going to disagree with the negative aspects of people being power leveled and not knowing the nuances of their respective classes...but let's face facts:

1) In most instances where someone is pleveled in 5 days to 46 or whatever, they are often alts.

2) Perhaps it's the chicken and egg argument...but maybe exp zones were introduced as a means to recover exp lost due to increased instance of death in zones and not just a byproduct/coincidence. I've seen other threads (too lazy to search and post links to them) where people complain about how the newer zones are much harder/time intensive etc....

P.S. - I think for the majority of the mud...exp and exp spots are fine as is....if you honestly object to them...then take your moral high ground and only do your exp in zones.
*shrug* just another 2 coppers in the kitty
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Postby Dalar » Wed Jan 08, 2003 4:17 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gerad:
<B>The reason that you have to do exp is so that you can learn to use the skills and tricks of the class that you are playing...

Nothing pisses me off in the game more than someone who was powerleveled and has no clue at all whats going on around them, and in all my days I have seem some REALLY bad cases, stories that you guys would not even believe were I to tell them.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

u know what's really funny is the day you zoned w/ some of my non-guilded friends they were saying how great i was.

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Shevarash OOC: 'I never thought I'd long for Muma to be on OOC'
Oyob tells you 'are you a god?\'
Gerad
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Postby Gerad » Wed Jan 08, 2003 9:51 pm

Did you take that as a personal attack? It wasnt meant to be...

All im saying is that having to do exp does indeed have a point...

g

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Auril tells you 'Yes, we're plotting the destruction of all that is holy - and unholy, too. Just to be thorough.'
Tanji Smanji
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Postby Tanji Smanji » Wed Jan 08, 2003 11:16 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gerad:
<B>Did you take that as a personal attack? It wasnt meant to be...

All im saying is that having to do exp does indeed have a point...

g

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep, doing ship/smoke/ect teaches one to level quickly and learn very little.

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Postby Iktar » Thu Jan 09, 2003 5:25 pm

I remember when I first started out from years ago that even having a level 40 was so impressive. Anyone remember Circle of Black Fire? Which had requirement of Level 40 to join? Well newayz...

I see two points being presented and being countered..

1. xp is mindnumbingly boring and doesn't teach anything. coz u learn everything in zone.
2. xp is fine the way it is. it is just mindnumbing due to repetitive xp zones like smoke, ship, etc.

My suggestion is...
Make xp zones challenging as real zones with xp reward instead of eq.

Zone: Ogre version of Jot somewhere on prime. Got palace and grid, etc.
Size of Group: Need group of 4~5
Level: 20~30
Reward: Large quantity of xp when the zone is 'cleared' by turning in item or when 'end boss' is killed, etc.

In order to teach skills, some fights must be creative or add in zone quest with all the items coming from the zone to teach questing, etc. It'd prolly be difficult to come up with some creative fights since half the spells would not be accessible.

Example of Scenario: One room in baby jot has 10 ogre mob whom only casts minute meteors like crazy and track. There would be many ways to deal with this room. one would be to minor globe everyone which would bounce minute meteor off, do it in runs, lure, etc.

When the zone is cleared, (after items have been turned in or end boss is dead, etc.), it would repop after 3 rl hr or something to reduce twinkablility but still provide xp for another or same group ready to take it on.

Or something like above.
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Postby Ashiwi » Thu Jan 09, 2003 5:42 pm

Putting challenges into the exp zones isn't going to work. People have already been spoiled, if you switch gears now and try to make them have to worry about anything or do any of the work they used to have to, you'll hear an uproar over it.

The easier they make it, the more people complain and the more people just fade away.
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Postby old depok » Thu Jan 09, 2003 5:50 pm

i like this idea.

Need to think of a way to keep it from being twinked by a single High level char.

Maybe have to quest an item to start and have all group members there to be teleported to the zone. Would like to see the zone load based upon the number of people in the group with the end experience based upon the number of people that are present when you turn in the quest piece (so that you dont go in and clear the zone with 15 people only to have one person turn in the quest piece).

Has to be thought through but nice idea.

Actually, would be nice to see this implemented in high level zones as well. Maybe have an item that can be turned in for either EQ or for a quest item that when turned in at your guild grants a certain amount of experience.
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Postby Dlur » Thu Jan 09, 2003 6:06 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by old depok:
<B>i like this idea.

Need to think of a way to keep it from being twinked by a single High level char.

Maybe have to quest an item to start and have all group members there to be teleported to the zone. Would like to see the zone load based upon the number of people in the group with the end experience based upon the number of people that are present when you turn in the quest piece (so that you dont go in and clear the zone with 15 people only to have one person turn in the quest piece).

Has to be thought through but nice idea.

Actually, would be nice to see this implemented in high level zones as well. Maybe have an item that can be turned in for either EQ or for a quest item that when turned in at your guild grants a certain amount of experience.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


This actually isn't a bad idea, just have the leader give the EXP quest item to the enchanter that died every time you do the zone, and then you're all set. And then get rid of smoke, ship, and DS. Problem solved!


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Ruld Ragingbear
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Postby Rokub » Thu Jan 09, 2003 6:32 pm

I found the solution, Experience was actually hard WHEN......

WE HAD A PLAYER WIPE.

No one had equipment to do didily with. The equipment you went for mostly was -AC equipment so you didn't die. +hp equipment was much harder to get then too. Those were the good times if you can believe it. No contriversy occured cause everyone was busy leveling and not complaining!

Rokub

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Malacar says 'And Isma wonders why he is universally hated.'

Ssissu group-says 'I think some goodies just complain to complain'

Ssissu group-says 'it's like a ranger complex'
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Postby Ilshadrial » Thu Jan 09, 2003 6:40 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Iktar:
<B>I remember when I first started out from years ago that even having a level 40 was so impressive. Anyone remember Circle of Black Fire? Which had requirement of Level 40 to join? Well newayz...
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There was never a guild called "Circle of Black Fire, there was the Circle of Fire, which I was part founder of..."

Wink

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Ilshad

"Your accomplishment is nothing compared to the glory that is Ilshadrial!!" Yayaril
Iktar
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Postby Iktar » Thu Jan 09, 2003 6:58 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ilshadrial:
<B> There was never a guild called "Circle of Black Fire, there was the Circle of Fire, which I was part founder of..."

Wink

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
o yeah!!! woooo.drool. :P


To Old Depok and Ashiwi,

I was just throwing ideas out. Yes, those will have to be implemented in order to keep high leveler out and significant exp benefit.

1. Portal that only certain level ranger can enter brings to you to the zone.
2. If group of four does mindless xp at ds for two hrs and say gain, reach 50% from 0%. Make the exp reward gained from the clearing zone to be just as good or better. Keep in mind its just the reward. U add that with exp gained from clearing zone, it's going to be lot more then 50% gained from 3 hr at ds as well as not so mindless.
Mplor
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Postby Mplor » Thu Jan 09, 2003 8:04 pm

Building off of other ideas here, what about a zone that must be "done" - from a specific beginning to a specific completion - where the main reward is experience. This zone might have an exp modifier of 1.5 at the beginning of the zone up to 5.0 for mobs at the end of the zone. If it has to be "done" as a zone, then you can't just camp it like tower, ship, or smoke. Maybe have one nice item (ala roots) as a reason for level 50s to go.

I like where this thread is going. Keep building on it.

Mp

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Postby Corth » Thu Jan 09, 2003 8:21 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Rokub:
<B>I found the solution, Experience was actually hard WHEN......

WE HAD A PLAYER WIPE.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This from the guy who doesn't mind getting one > per hour. Of course a pwipe doesnt bother you....

Corth

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Goddamned slippery mage.
Yayaril
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Postby Yayaril » Thu Jan 09, 2003 10:34 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Rokub:
<B>Those were the good times if you can believe it.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Those may have been your good times, but I'm living in my good times.



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-Yayaril
Bobop
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Postby Bobop » Thu Jan 09, 2003 10:34 pm

Experience should be left the way it is.. however I do honestly believe that players should be able to level past 50. Levels 51-55 should be implemented either by horrendous experience or through quest experience. Dont think there should be new spells or skills implemented, but by doing this.. would give players the ability to gloat a little more Image

Dungap the Ogre

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