America and the rest of the world

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biges
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Postby biges » Wed Feb 13, 2002 8:57 pm

YAY!!! THE US RULES. . .YAY!!! . . . o-0
Blung
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Postby Blung » Wed Feb 13, 2002 9:37 pm

First of, this is a pathetic topic posted by a person point of view living in the U.S., totally have no understanding of how the rest of the world is. "America and the rest of the world." You isolated America from the rest of the world. You view America as the Supreme and the rest of the world as trash just by the title. And how old is the United States tradition compare to the rest of the World? Yes, the U.S military is a force to be reckon with. But it give us no right to do whatever we want. If we don't give a shit from the rest of the world think. We would probably be the modern 21st century of the Roman Empire. Some of you take things for granted, if you were to live in a 3rd world country or anywhere else in the world other than the United States. You will really appreciate what you have now and you will view the world differently.


"If you can't be thankful for what you achieve, be thankful for what you escape."


Blung take no prisoner.
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Postby Kuurg » Thu Feb 14, 2002 1:12 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by fildur:
<B> myth#2:
the us troops around the world are there to protect the innocent.

as pointed out by several ppl in this thread american troops really do protect the interests of american companies.

id even say that the attacks on afghanistan might be the first justifiable us foreign intervension since ww2. /fil</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


You'll have to forgive the US for knowing where it's bread is buttered, but you'd be hard pressed to prove that the repulsion of Hussein from Kuwait did not directly benefit that nation - an action they themselves could not compass.

Don't take this to mean that I agree with all US foreign policy or military action (or inaction.) I reserve the right to judge each event or incident based on it's relative merits.

Likewise, I might at some other time agree with you, but not now, and not on this.

I would whole-heartedly endorse the withdrawal of US forces from every other nation if we didn't have to share this one, tiny globe with you.

Frankly, I trust the nations of the world's ability to mind themselves not at all.

------------------
·•Kuurg•·
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Postby Corth » Thu Feb 14, 2002 3:53 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Blung:
First of, this is a pathetic topic posted by a person point of view living in the U.S., totally have no understanding of how the rest of the world is. [b]"America and the rest of the world." You isolated America from the rest of the world. You view America as the Supreme and the rest of the world as trash just by the title. And how old is the United States tradition compare to the rest of the World? Yes, the U.S military is a force to be reckon with. But it give us no right to do whatever we want. If we don't give a shit from the rest of the world think. We would probably be the modern 21st century of the Roman Empire. Some of you take things for granted, if you were to live in a 3rd world country or anywhere else in the world other than the United States. You will really appreciate what you have now and you will view the world differently.


"If you can't be thankful for what you achieve, be thankful for what you escape."


Blung take no prisoner.[/B]</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Blung,

As far as the title of the thread, it corresponded to the article that i posted the link to. Furthermore, in the initial post i specifically said that I was interested in what people from outside the U.S. thought. Unfortunately, except for the first few posts, there hasn't been much discussion about the article which inspired me to post the topic in the first place. Well perhaps its not unfortunate because I think there have been some very interesting posts here nonetheless, and some have gotten me thinking about stuff that I usually don't think about.
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Postby Taegost » Thu Feb 14, 2002 12:37 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by fildur:
<B>
Originally posted by Taegost:
Removing the threat of thermonuclear warfare doesn't justify our presence?
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
what alien from what planet told ye that ye did that?/fil


Whoa, you ever read the news? Or pay attention to class?
Damn.
Why do you think that treaty was there in the first place?
He HAD chemical and biological weapons, and he was CREATING nuclear ones.
You read my last post before that one?
The one about not posting if you're ignorant to a topic?

------------------
Taegost, The one and ONLY STUPER DRUID(tm)
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Postby groguk » Thu Feb 14, 2002 3:24 pm

i posed this question a while back in this thread but saw no real responce to it so will ask again: To all those who criticize the us for reacting to an attack on against us on our soil; can you name one just one instance where your country, or for that matter any country, offered the us disaster relief aid of any kind?
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Postby Jegzed » Thu Feb 14, 2002 3:40 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by groguk:
i posed this question a while back in this thread but saw no real responce to it so will ask again: To all those who criticize the us for reacting to an attack on against us on our soil; can you name one just one instance where your country, or for that matter any country, offered the us disaster relief aid of any kind?</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pretty much every country in the world offered USA aid during the days of Sept 11th, even Saddam.
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Postby Lalisa » Thu Feb 14, 2002 3:50 pm

Ok, I need thicker skin. I can agree with that Image

This is a problem I have with the Internet as a whole and not Zrax *tickle Zrax*.

People do treat each other very differently on the net compared if they were standing face to face. In real life I'm not this thin-skiined, there I can see where the person is comming from.

And I do think people are more harsh on the net than they would be in real. This is of course also due to the fact that it is easy to be understood here.

It all started with Zrax thinking I was calling him stupid, I didn't. And Zrax, I didn't think you were stupid, I thought you were wrong, because perhaps I misunderstood your post.
This doesn't mean neither of us can read or is stupid.

So, I will let it rest. But I'm not sure I really wanna develop thicker skin Image People in my real life like me for what I am, a caring, sensitive, empatic person.
Untill the tone on bulletin boards changes (I can still hope, can't I?), then perhaps I should stop posring.

I still think it is wrong, very wrong. But it will develop less problems, I can see that. I'm not very happy for the idea of 'survival of the strongest' and if a sensitive person can't post because of it, then I see as that, perhaps that is one of my main problems Image

So, I would merely say end of story..I hope.
I will relax and take some more coffee and hope for better times.
Thanks for trying to cheer me up, I do think it helped *hug*

/lalisa

ps: Why do people continue to say there is nothing mud like in the General discussion. There is a thread about ID, about proc weapons, Bards, Chromatic Dragons, Spell Quests, etc. I can see all the other stuff is here, that is fine. But there is still mud stuff here.

Ilshadrial, why is it wrong to mention females? Men and females often express themselves differently and understand things differently. Shall I point you to some links about? Therefore it can actually mean something. It explains why my skin is thinner for instance. You are not afraid of us, are you?
You are such perfect example of why some people uhm..I will stop here. I will just ignore the rest *cackle*

[This message has been edited by Lalisa (edited 02-14-2002).]
Lalisa
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Postby Lalisa » Thu Feb 14, 2002 3:53 pm

Instead of a ps in my former post, I will post here. Going against what I said about not posting in forums *slaps herself silly*

1. I didn't mean to put anyone in particular into that rant. I didn't mean to point Zrax out in it and say he was like that. Sorry about that. I do know lot's of very nice americans and they rock! It was a generalization and nothing more than that.
I didn't mean to point anyone out, I'm sorry for that. It was a rant.

2. I have no objections against the US invading Afghanistan. Bin Laden should be caught and punished. I can understand that invading the country was the only solution and I cheer by the fact that the Talebans was removed.
My own country supported the invation and offered military help. We were right behind you, guys.

3. I think it was Blung who said it was silly to separate the US the rest of the world. Blung, I totally agree! Image
I'm not sure it is healthy for us to think of the US and the world as separate either.
The world can continue without nations (it doesn't matter much what nation it is) and will cope with it. But again, why would the world want that? I could live with the US, but I don't want to. The US is part of the world and they belong here!
I hope noone misunderstood that one, I was trying to say I wanted the US around, since they are part of the world. It was meant in a good way Image

/lalisa
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Postby Guest » Thu Feb 14, 2002 7:05 pm

It's opinions like that which make Americans like me hate the rest of the world as much as they hate us. We have many flaws, as does Every other country in the world. Because we are powerful, most others are envious or outright jealous of that power - thats human nature and no one can deny it. Does that mean everyone wants to be an American? Hell no, nor would I want them All here.

One fact always bears to mind for me when people start slamming the US for its policies.. Two little Wee issues called WWI and WWII, in which Millions of my countrymen laid down their lives to save the very nations that now hate us. This to me is in-exscusable, and alot the reason why Americans don't respect nor care anymore about the rest of the world. In our 'short' lifetime, we sure as hell have made a big impact, and a BIG improvement, on the world. Things like the Microchip, the realization of mass-production, even little things like Velcro, all came from America. We have given to the world MANY times over for the help we got in the formation of our little country then, and I simply ignore people who now - just free of the swastica - jump up on a soap box and start Bitching about the US. You wont be on that box the next time you get attacked by a major power, you'll be begging for help - again.

So frankly, the rest of the world can do it's own thing - more power to it. But we American's will go our own way as well. Does America do bad things around the world sometimes? Sure we do, all nations Do. At the end of the day, a thousand years from now, America will have an impact on history like the Roman Empire did, remember for both its good and bad, but most of all for having advanced the whole of the world to the next stage in our evolution. I for one am Damn proud to be an American, and anyone who wants to sit there and slam us - go piss on your own soil.

Miax
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Postby Taegost » Thu Feb 14, 2002 7:22 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Miax:
<B>
It's opinions like that which make Americans like me hate the rest of the world as much as they hate us. We have many flaws, as does Every other country in the world. Because we are powerful, most others are envious or outright jealous of that power - thats human nature and no one can deny it. Does that mean everyone wants to be an American? Hell no, nor would I want them All here.

One fact always bears to mind for me when people start slamming the US for its policies.. Two little Wee issues called WWI and WWII, in which Millions of my countrymen laid down their lives to save the very nations that now hate us. This to me is in-exscusable, and alot the reason why Americans don't respect nor care anymore about the rest of the world. In our 'short' lifetime, we sure as hell have made a big impact, and a BIG improvement, on the world. Things like the Microchip, the realization of mass-production, even little things like Velcro, all came from America. We have given to the world MANY times over for the help we got in the formation of our little country then, and I simply ignore people who now - just free of the swastica - jump up on a soap box and start Bitching about the US. You wont be on that box the next time you get attacked by a major power, you'll be begging for help - again.

So frankly, the rest of the world can do it's own thing - more power to it. But we American's will go our own way as well. Does America do bad things around the world sometimes? Sure we do, all nations Do. At the end of the day, a thousand years from now, America will have an impact on history like the Roman Empire did, remember for both its good and bad, but most of all for having advanced the whole of the world to the next stage in our evolution. I for one am Damn proud to be an American, and anyone who wants to sit there and slam us - go piss on your own soil.

Miax

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well said!
You just voiced what I've been thinking in my head, I just couldn't articulate as well as you just did, even IN my own head.
Bravo!

------------------
Taegost, The one and ONLY STUPER DRUID(tm)
groguk
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Postby groguk » Thu Feb 14, 2002 8:04 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Miax:
<B>
It's opinions like that which make Americans like me hate the rest of the world as much as they hate us. We have many flaws, as does Every other country in the world. Because we are powerful, most others are envious or outright jealous of that power - thats human nature and no one can deny it. Does that mean everyone wants to be an American? Hell no, nor would I want them All here.

One fact always bears to mind for me when people start slamming the US for its policies.. Two little Wee issues called WWI and WWII, in which Millions of my countrymen laid down their lives to save the very nations that now hate us. This to me is in-exscusable, and alot the reason why Americans don't respect nor care anymore about the rest of the world. In our 'short' lifetime, we sure as hell have made a big impact, and a BIG improvement, on the world. Things like the Microchip, the realization of mass-production, even little things like Velcro, all came from America. We have given to the world MANY times over for the help we got in the formation of our little country then, and I simply ignore people who now - just free of the swastica - jump up on a soap box and start Bitching about the US. You wont be on that box the next time you get attacked by a major power, you'll be begging for help - again.

So frankly, the rest of the world can do it's own thing - more power to it. But we American's will go our own way as well. Does America do bad things around the world sometimes? Sure we do, all nations Do. At the end of the day, a thousand years from now, America will have an impact on history like the Roman Empire did, remember for both its good and bad, but most of all for having advanced the whole of the world to the next stage in our evolution. I for one am Damn proud to be an American, and anyone who wants to sit there and slam us - go piss on your own soil.

Miax

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

miax
i couldnt agree more
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Postby Tesil » Thu Feb 14, 2002 9:04 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by groguk:
<B> miax
i couldnt agree more</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Miax for President!!! Image
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Postby cherzra » Thu Feb 14, 2002 9:14 pm

Yeah, we'd all still be living in caves if it weren't for the US. Stuck in the quagmire of doom for the rest of eternity.
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Postby Ashiwi » Thu Feb 14, 2002 9:27 pm

Notice how the sound of mass puckering will stop a thread dead in its tracks?
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Postby Zrax » Thu Feb 14, 2002 9:34 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ashiwi:
Notice how the sound of mass puckering will stop a thread dead in its tracks?</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bahahaha well said.
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Postby Blung » Thu Feb 14, 2002 10:51 pm

Here is a question for you to ponder about. "When a country go to war, does it have a purpose?" If so, which lead me to Miax's statement. WWI and WWII, are you trying to tell me that we have no agenda during those 2 wars except to save the others butt? Sorry to burst your bubble. We're not great of a nation as you though we are.
We, as American learn to create, steal, adapt, manipulate to new environment as good (if not the best) as any others. Of course during those process, we step on a few toes.
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Postby Eadgydd » Thu Feb 14, 2002 11:00 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Miax:
<B>
Does America do bad things around the world sometimes? Sure we do, all nations Do. At the end of the day, a thousand years from now, America will have an impact on history like the Roman Empire did, remember for both its good and bad, but most of all for having advanced the whole of the world to the next stage in our evolution.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Hmm... the next stage of evolution after the Roman Empire, chronologically speaking, being the Dark Ages. Just a thought.

Blung: Sigh. Much as I have been a cynic on this thread, I have to point out that in WWII there were US citizens who went to Canada to enlist because they thought the US should be involved in the war... while there certainly were selfish interests involved in finally joining both wars (the Lusitania and Pearl Harbor just providing unassailable casus belli), many, even most people supported it for far more altruistic reasons.

Still, like I said before, past acts of heroism do not excuse current (or past) acts of selfishness and greed. Analogy: Do you look the other way when your friend robs your neighbor's houses, because he saved your life in the past? Come to think of it, that is a real dilemma... what do you do?

[This message has been edited by Eadgydd (edited 02-14-2002).]
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Postby fildur » Fri Feb 15, 2002 10:13 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Taegost:
<B> Whoa, you ever read the news? Or pay attention to class?
Damn.
Why do you think that treaty was there in the first place?
He HAD chemical and biological weapons, and he was CREATING nuclear ones.
You read my last post before that one?
The one about not posting if you're ignorant to a topic?
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

call me ignorant, but name a nation, that has a history of agression and posess thousands of nuclear warheads, that has used nuclear weapons in a war, and has a silly cowboy for president...

lead: its not iraq or afghanistan, nor is it russia...

with that cowboy at power, _how_ can you say that the treat of nuclear war is gone?

with the conflict goin on in kashmir between two nations of one we are sure posess nuclear armsw and it is probbable that theother one does too, how can yousay that the threat is gone, dont you follow the news, pay attn att class etc? damn./fil
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Postby fildur » Fri Feb 15, 2002 10:28 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Kuurg:
<B>
You'll have to forgive the US for knowing where it's bread is buttered, but you'd be hard pressed to prove that the repulsion of Hussein from Kuwait did not directly benefit that nation - an action they themselves could not compass.

Don't take this to mean that I agree with all US foreign policy or military action (or inaction.) I reserve the right to judge each event or incident based on it's relative merits.

Likewise, I might at some other time agree with you, but not now, and not on this.

I would whole-heartedly endorse the withdrawal of US forces from every other nation if we didn't have to share this one, tiny globe with you.

Frankly, I trust the nations of the world's ability to mind themselves not at all.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i wont say that the war on iraq was about the oil, its too obvios...

everyone knew before the war that saddam was an evil mf, that dint stop the us from supporting saddam in the 80s...

and the affairs of other nations is none of the us buisness, thats not a matter wether the us chooses to trust them or not.

finally, if we all would agree, we wouldnt be having this discussion, right?/fil
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Postby Malacar » Fri Feb 15, 2002 10:32 am

Sorry, but I agree with Miax.

If you'll note, Miax stated unequivocally that the US is not perfect and makes mistakes. Of course there was a side agenda. There always will be. With ANY country, US or otherwise. If you think anything else, you are blind, deaf, and dumb. It's politics, get used to it.

And also...

If you'll note, those that do not like the US were the first to step forward and make it sound like Miax touted the US as perfect and right in everything it does.

Makes me kinda sick to my stomach to listen to drivel like that. And very glad I have my freedom of speech. It may not always be great here in the US, but I would live noplace else by choice.

Oh.. And do me a favor, back off from slamming our president. I may not like our political system, but Bush has been doing a damn fine job. So stuff the cowboy hat overt slams.
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Postby Tuga » Fri Feb 15, 2002 10:40 am

G´day all,

According to Miax all good things came from America.

While I agree with him, to certain extent, that mass production which was first successfully implemented by Ford in his T-Model factory somewhere near Detroid, I believe not quite sure, but actually it was first theorised by some french guy. One thing that the first implementations failed to realize is that mass production has to have a "cycle of use", and so in some day of some month of 1929 we had what we call "Black Thursday", where all early corporations came crumbling down and the capatilism had the worst period of its existance.

Fact:
Most successful implementation of mass production until today has been done in Japan, where it came from a war beaten economy to the 2nd largest economy in 57 years.

Fact:
No one is better than anyone one else just because that someone was born on this particular country. Anyone can achieve something if the conditions to achieve that something are in place.

You think Einstein would have made as many discoveries as he made if he had been born 30 years latter?? Most likely he would have been killed by the Nazies, the man was a Jew! And for the 98% of Americans that don't know there is a world outside US, Mexico and Canada, he was born in Germany.

Also, many things that you guys take as American!! Lamborghini, Ferrari, Mercedes, BMW, VW, Porche, Jaguar not to mention some of the Japanese, arent made in America. So you got the Corvette? BAH! you really wanna compare?

The 98% need to realize that US is part of this World and as such start living in it, dont cause wars to protect your investments outside the US. Is as simple as that!
Look at what caused some crazy maniac to do Sep11 and learn what you can do next so it can be avoided.

Look at Argentina and whats happening there at moment! Its all caused by the "very rich" that think they arent part of this tiny globe. 'Oh no it wont happen to me because I got $$' In the end if this place is going to dust, ye will go aswell, be you 98% or the rest of the world.

How many people do you have in the US living is very poor standard conditions? Try fix your own problems first before you try anyone elses. Distribute your wealth(which is enormous) more evenly amogst yourselves. Capitalism(which proved to be the best of all systems) will survive in better and less hostile world.

Now turning on the Australian people! 90% of these down under grunts also dont know or dont care that there are more and UK, US and Australia. Or tho we dont have as many social disbalances in our country as the US does, we are walking the same road. Time to turn it up, and tell these politicians of ours that defending the interests of the very rich above all else only can lead to National problems and International hatred.

Regards
Tuga
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Postby fildur » Fri Feb 15, 2002 10:57 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Miax:
<B>
It's opinions like that which make Americans like me hate the rest of the world as much as they hate us. We have many flaws, as does Every other country in the world. Because we are powerful, most others are envious or outright jealous of that power - thats human nature and no one can deny it. Does that mean everyone wants to be an American? Hell no, nor would I want them All here.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i cant see how its a matter of hate being critical to us foreign policies, nor is it a matter of jealosy to ask to be left alone.

the thing is that the "rest of the world" has to live with the consequences of us actions, that will unavoidable lead to rage amongst the victims.

if you know chilenian refugees, and somalii ppl that cant send money home to their families due to us actions, you get to know this rage, its har not agreeing with them on the feeling they get from the personal experience of us foreign policies.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Miax:
<B>
I for one am Damn proud to be an American,
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

its so strange, how can you be proud of being born in a country, i just wont get it, what did you do to deserve being born in the us, what act that you can be proud off rendered the concequence being born?

im proud of being happily married, im proud of playing in a great band, im proud of haveing good friends, im proud of working hard...

...im not proud of being born, im not proud of passing certain ages, theire just obvious facts, just silly to put your pride in nonsense...
/fil
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Postby Jegzed » Fri Feb 15, 2002 11:53 am

FYI, I'm kind of very pro-american in my views, and I think Bush has done everything the right way so far.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Miax:
<B>One fact always bears to mind for me when people start slamming the US for its policies.. Two little Wee issues called WWI and WWII, in which Millions of my countrymen laid down their lives to save the very nations that now hate us.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not sure I agree.. I don't think England, France and Benelux really hate the USA. They are perhaps the most pro-american countries in the world. They've been allied with the US since the middle of WW2 and are still allied with them.

The mideast on the other hand, thats a bunch of scary nations. Nuke the entire moslem world, and pave into a gigantic parking area then we'll have a friendlier world.

We can make the world into a mud-analogy.
USA leads the group, while their allies (UK, France, Germany etc), are group-members. They most likely voice their concerns cause they are not asked about which zone to do next.


/Jegzed
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Postby Kallinar » Fri Feb 15, 2002 11:57 am

Actually, Miax is correct in saying that mass production in the modern sense is an American Invention.
The assembly line was invented by Samuel Colt and Eli Whitney Jr. to make *gasp* guns!
The assembly line revolutionized the industrial world and made life much eazier for our ancestors that had to slave in factories for countless hours on end. (those of us that had ancestors that had to do that sort of work that is)

Ahh another great American invention that the world would be at a loss without. The telephone. Alexander Graham Bell was the name. The tele was his game. No mre having to understand morse code thanks to him. (I do BTW).

Ooh and another American invention many of you might take for granted while you sit there and bash such a wonderful country: The INTERNET. Would it not be for the geeks at MIT in the 60's, those of you who so freely bash The United States and Americanism, Please scoot back from your keyboards for a second, look at the telephone wire/coax cable/lan line connected to your computer and remember that if not for Americans like myself that you would not be able to so freely state your opinions to the world. Mail is nice. Email is better.

Give me a call sometime on the american invention in your home and we'll chat. Or you can just use the American invention you are using right now to read this and chat. Either way, be nice. Image

This is not a flame toward anyone BTW. Everyone in this worl id entitled to their opinion. Just remember, Yes the US makes sure its interests are intact worldwide. If a nation does not, it loses touch with resources and trading in the areas that they do not meddle in. It is all politics. THose of us that are not politicians can vot for our leaders and pray that they do a stand up job. Politicans are human and make mistakes just as you and I do. If you drop a glass of milk on the floor and the glass breaks is the whole world going to berate you for it? I think not.
Our leaders do what is in their best interests, and ALSO what is in the best interests of the people that put them where they are. American politicians were not born to be politicians. Its a choice in life they make for themselves. George W Bush didn't have to becomea president. He chose to. His father was a president before. Big deal. So politics might be a family thing for them now. Bush Sr. wasn't a politician his whole life. He started his life as a kid. Just like the rest of us.

I am glad someone has the power to look out for my best interest here in America and abroad. I am glad we have good ties with other countries because of the help we have given them in the past for one reason or another. I am glad I can get in my car and drive it with petrol that most likely came from the middle east. I can do this because America has intervened there before for my best interest. I am glad we bombed Japan in WW2 because we got their respect and now I can sit behind my Playstation and have a good time thanks to my country's leaders looking out for my best interest.
Many other countrys look to America for help in a time of trouble to look after THEIR countrys best interests also. Trade with the US is a good thing yes? Learning new technology is a good thing yes? The state of California exports more produce than any COUNTRY in the world. Food is good yes? As long as you can afford it it is available. If people can't afford the food, it is usually because of the poor leadership of their country.
Without the heavy handedness the US has used in the past, we would possibly have turned into nothing but another 3rd world country. Alas we did not. We became a powerful bunch of buggers that tend to get under everyones skin. Well, hate to say it, but every country in the world has the ability to be exactly the same. Its all a matter of the choices made by the folks in charge.

Ok enough poop for me. I am pooped.


Kallinar
Inventor of the word Mooology

[This message has been edited by Kallinar (edited 02-15-2002).]
Jegzed
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Postby Jegzed » Fri Feb 15, 2002 12:08 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Kallinar:
Ahh another great American invention that the world would be at a loss without. The telephone. Alexander Graham Bell was the name. The tele was his game. No mre having to understand morse code thanks to him. (I do BTW).</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually he was originally Scottish, and spent alot of time in Canada, where the first tests over longer distances than a few rooms where made.




[This message has been edited by Jegzed (edited 02-15-2002).]
Kallinar
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Postby Kallinar » Fri Feb 15, 2002 12:16 pm

My great-grandparents were origionally Scottish and Irish. They did not claim to be so. They came to America to be Americans. I'm pretty sure Mr Bell would have felt the same way. Image


OOM seog ranillaK

[This message has been edited by Kallinar (edited 02-15-2002).]
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Postby Taegost » Fri Feb 15, 2002 12:31 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by fildur:
<B> call me ignorant, but name a nation, that has a history of agression and posess thousands of nuclear warheads, that has used nuclear weapons in a war, and has a silly cowboy for president...

lead: its not iraq or afghanistan, nor is it russia...

with that cowboy at power, _how_ can you say that the treat of nuclear war is gone?

with the conflict goin on in kashmir between two nations of one we are sure posess nuclear armsw and it is probbable that theother one does too, how can yousay that the threat is gone, dont you follow the news, pay attn att class etc? damn./fil</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

1) The US is not an aggressive state. Name one instance that the US made aggressive moves that weren't provoked, their policy has always been one of isolationism.

2) I never said the threat is gone, nor will it ever be, but Saddam and Iraq are not a US problem, they're a WORLD problem. He's not like the Al Qaeda where he's going after Christian beliefs and the Western World, he's a rogue that wants to become the next Hitler.

------------------
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Postby Taegost » Fri Feb 15, 2002 12:35 pm

Disclaimer: I agree with you, just want to point out where a couple of facts are *slightly* incorrect.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Kallinar:
<B>Actually, Miax is correct in saying that mass production in the modern sense is an American Invention.
The assembly line was invented by Samuel Colt and Eli Whitney Jr. to make *gasp* guns!
The assembly line revolutionized the industrial world and made life much eazier for our ancestors that had to slave in factories for countless hours on end. (those of us that had ancestors that had to do that sort of work that is) </B>

Eli Whitney "invented" the concept of using several universal parts to make several different types of guns.
Which is prolly one of the biggest parts of the assembly line.

<B>
Ahh another great American invention that the world would be at a loss without. The telephone. Alexander Graham Bell was the name. The tele was his game. No mre having to understand morse code thanks to him. (I do BTW).</B>

Alexander Graham Bell didn't invent the telephone, he got the patent first.
Altho, that's not exactly accurate, either.
Bell and another person, (I can't remember her name, but I know she was a female) were working on it at the same time, in two seperate parts of the country.
She actually finished hers the day before, but the patent office was closed, and she ended up getting there the next day several hours after Bell did.
She also started before him.

<B>Ooh and another American invention many of you might take for granted while you sit there and bash such a wonderful country: The INTERNET. Would it not be for the geeks at MIT in the 60's, those of you who so freely bash The United States and Americanism, Please scoot back from your keyboards for a second, look at the telephone wire/coax cable/lan line connected to your computer and remember that if not for Americans like myself that you would not be able to so freely state your opinions to the world. Mail is nice. Email is better.

Give me a call sometime on the american invention in your home and we'll chat. Or you can just use the American invention you are using right now to read this and chat. Either way, be nice. Image

Kallinar
Inventor of the word Mooology

[This message has been edited by Kallinar (edited 02-15-2002).]</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



------------------
Taegost, The one and ONLY STUPER DRUID(tm)
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Postby cherzra » Fri Feb 15, 2002 12:49 pm

I invented the Internet!

Hey if Al Gore can claim it, then so can I.
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Postby Ormiss » Fri Feb 15, 2002 2:21 pm

Actually, I more or less already speak German.

As for your help, yeah you got bombed and you got angry and came to retaliate, before that you weren't in the war; the US citizens didn't want to bother, it wasn't until you were bombed that you agreed to what your president wanted to do - jumpstart the economy through a good old war.

And, I'd be speaking Russian if you hadn't come, is more likely.
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Postby Tuga » Fri Feb 15, 2002 3:33 pm

G'day again

<b>
The state of California exports more produce than any COUNTRY in the world. Food is good yes?
</b>

That is gotta be the joke of the day?

Australia and I only know about down under, only consumes 7% of its produce and out of this 7% we waste some of it.
To give ye an idea of wasting:
QLD state published in its statistics of 1998 that 7tons of bread each day of that year were thrown away. That is for a population of less than 3mil. Its sad but is true, Australians take for granted their produce.
But back to the point, this means that we export 93% of our produce to other countires, namely Japan, China and Korea which are highly densely populated areas of the world.
Okie so we only got 20million ppl in this vastly large land. Well TOUGH!

Secondly, Bell was Scotish not American!!!!
Alexander Graham Bell's invention of the telephone grew out of his research into ways to improve the telegraph. Born in Edinburgh, Scotland, the inventor spent one year at a private school, two years at Edinburgh's Royal High School (from which he graduated at 14), and attended a few lectures at Edinburgh University and at University College in London, but he was largely family-trained and self-taught.

Thirdly, Internet is not an invention! Else the guys who had the patent for it would be more than trillionaires.
Its only possible if there is high bandwidth digital lines, which, behind them has many other mathmatical theories(not all done by americans).

Lets not bomb the muslims only because they originate from the middle east. Alot of them are very good people and want peace in the world as well. But on the other hand lets hurt these rogue countires and rogue ppl where it hurts the most! Think about where the wealth of these countries, like the Saudis, come from. Now think who, also is making the most of it? Think of who financed G.W.Bush campaign?
Yep World Oil corporations! Well stop poluting the world! start using recycleable energy sources.
US produces 25% of CO2 and CO that goes to the atmosphere per year worldwide! Dont you think its time to clean your act?

I mostly think the same way as the 2% of americans that know there is a world outside your borders.

regards
Tuga
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Postby Gort » Fri Feb 15, 2002 3:36 pm

A side note from the post about Japans economic success post WWII.

When the US entered WWII, most of our factory workforces and management were called up. This necessitated a change in management style to maximize production and minimize the amount of errors and management personell. The production philosophy was named "the matrix of squares".

Using it, WWII production levels and quality skyrocketted, greatly assisting the Allied progress, and eventual victory in the war.

Post WWII, the Marshall Plan was implemented, helping our former enemies rebuild. In Japan, part of this consisted of us showing them the matrix of squares. They then ran with it, it served them extremely well through the 90's, and has only now become obsolete to them.

Ironically, post WWII, the same workers and management people who left their positions to fight, came back and returned us to our pre-war management style in spite of the greater success of the above management style. It wasn't till the 80's when Japan was slaughtering the US auto industry (among others) that we scrambled to recapture that technique.

And if people claim that Bell was Scottish, because his ancestors were from there, then I say he was likely an Ostrogoth, as their ancesters came from Central Asia :P. How far back do you want to go on the whole gig? Some anthropologists have found evidence that Homo-Sapiens origionated in Africa, so are we all then Africans because 15000 years ago a remotely distant early Homo-Sapien relative of ours lived in the Nile Valley?

We're all human, living on an insignificant rock around a small sun, in the outer spiral arm of the Milky Way Galaxy in a small galactic cluster moving at high speed away from the origional center of the universe.


Toplack
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Postby fildur » Fri Feb 15, 2002 3:41 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Taegost:
<B> 1) The US is not an aggressive state. Name one instance that the US made aggressive moves that weren't provoked, their policy has always been one of isolationism.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

the murder of allende is one of the example at hand.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Taegost:
2) I never said the threat is gone, nor will it ever be,
[/B]</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

actually you did say so, if ye want to take it back, ok by me, its possible to, in the heat of the debate say things you dont really mean...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Taegostfrom post 02-13-2002 0304 PM:
Removing the threat of thermonuclear warfare doesn't justify our presence?
[/B]</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Taegost:
but Saddam and Iraq are not a US problem, they're a WORLD problem. He's not like the Al Qaeda where he's going after Christian beliefs and the Western World, he's a rogue that wants to become the next Hitler.
[/B]</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

when did saddam express such a wish?

yes saddam is a rogue, and he was a rogue in the past too, when getting us support. the us does support rogues and criminals around the world, as long as the us can trust them as allies, when saddam attacked kuwait the us felt that ameriocan interests were threatened, hence the support was withdrawn and war declared. thats just a matter of history. if saddam do not share "western values" has nothing to do with it and it doesnt make him more or less a rogue.

id just want to point out that turkey isnt considered a rogue-state by the us, its an allied, even tho turkey im most aspects treats their minority populations as bad as saddam does./fil
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Postby Tesil » Fri Feb 15, 2002 3:43 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by fildur:
<B> when did saddam express such a wish?

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

For the love of god fildur...take a fucking english class or 2.
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Postby Jegzed » Fri Feb 15, 2002 3:52 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gort:
And if people claim that Bell was Scottish, because his ancestors were from there, then I say he was likely an Ostrogoth, as their ancesters came from Central Asia :P.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There are plenty of american inventors but calling Bell american is a big stretch.

He was born in Scotland, raised in Scotland, got his education in Scotland.
Emigrated to Canada 23years old in 1870.
He spent a lot of time in US, and worked there..
He is buried in Canada.

IMHO, if he is anything definitely in nationality, then its Canadian...



[This message has been edited by Jegzed (edited 02-15-2002).]
Corth
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Postby Corth » Fri Feb 15, 2002 3:56 pm

I think the enormous diversity and freedom of the U.S. press sometimes acts to convey the wrong impression to foreigners.

I'm hear all sorts of stuff about how the U.S. has horrible social problems, and such a huge gap between the rich and the poor.

While undoubtedly social problems exist, and such a gap exists, I submit that it isn't any worse than any other place in the world.. and probably better.

1) Social problems:

In america we are very public in our debates over social issues. We don't sweep things under the rug. There are many opinions on how to deal with out problems and all these opinions, ranging from the practical, to the radical, are given a fair amount of attention by the press. Our major social issues are:

a) Racism: This deserves a place on the top of the list, not necessarily because its currently the largest social problem, but because of America's histroy with it. Its an enormously complex issue. Suffice to say, serious advances in race relations have occured in a mere 40 years since the start of the civil rights era. We have blacks as CEO's of major corporations, and one in particular could likely be elected president if he chose to run (Colin Powell).


b) Poverty

What country doesn't have a problem with a segment of their population being poor? The question is, how do you approach this problem. America, since early in its history, has provided a free education to everyone. Through education, anyone has the opportunity to actualize their natural god-given talents. It would be silly to cite all the cases of people that have grown up dirt poor and suceeded to the point of becoming filthy rich. But lets put it this way.. Horatio Alger was an American.

Granted, extreme levels of poverty do at all times exist. And to an extent, we also deal with it in a purely humanitarian way by attempting to redistribute wealth to these people through welfare programs. However, we do not do this to the same extent as european countries, because frankly, in America we believe that you should work for money. Handouts are not in accord with the philosophy of capitalism that was instilled in us by our founding fathers. Our founding fathers, I might add, founded this country in the face of European repression and over-taxation.

Many people do not agree with this underlying philosophy. Particularly Europeans, but many in America as well. Thats fine and good, there is a strong debate at all times about how much welfare is the right amount. We deal with it our way, and other countries deal with it their way. There is no simple and correct answer.

c) Crime

Sure there is crime. As there is in every other country that exists, has existed, and ever will exist. Im not an expert and would be hard pressed to compare the U.S. crime rate with those of other countries. Suffice to say, however, that I think this area is sensationalized in the press. I get the impression that Europeans feel that shootings in the street are commonplace or something. I live in New York City, and I have never witnessed a violent crime. Sure it happens, but its not as pervasive as some people suggest it is.

2) President Cowboy

Our president's political opponents, during the presidential campaign, tried to portray him as some sort of buffoon. I am by no means a hardcore Bush supporter. I disagree with him on many of his conservative social positions such as his position on abortion. However, anyone that looks at the issue objectively would have a difficult time saying the guy is stupid. He has chosen an incredibly talented and experienced cabinet, and most importantly, he has trusted the advice he gets from these people. He has managed, despite a completely polarized and partisan Senate, to push forward most of his campaign pledges. His 80+ percent approval rating speaks volumes. I don't think that anyone with the type of political skill as Mr. Bush can be described as stupid, or as a cowboy. I think Europeans who describe him as such, not having the opportunity to actually see how he acts in his day to day role as commander in chief, are overly gullible. Without the opportunity to objectively come to their own conclusion, they simply parrot what they see in their own partisan news outlets.

Corth
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Postby fildur » Fri Feb 15, 2002 3:58 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Tesil:
<B> For the love of god fildur...take a fucking english class or 2.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

bah, _forgive_me_ for not being native english, _forgive_me_ for not following every good writing/spellinmg rule. Image

i believe that my points are kinda clear anyways, even if some ppl obviousky think that they are wrong or confused. anyone have a problem w my english, plz just read someones elses posts or shove it... Image

/fil

ps on the other hand, i think gettin a description approved by mystra on s2 qualifies for at least some grades in english... Image
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Postby cherzra » Fri Feb 15, 2002 5:10 pm

I live in the Netherlands, and I'll wager that there is not a single social system as good as ours. Health care, social security, education, it is all great. When I hear that universities in the US cost tens of thousands of dollars a year, I'm glad that I only paid four thousand dollars in total for my master's degree. Unfortunately, with the massive influx of foreigners and their flagrant disregard for our culture combined with our lax politicians and pat-on-the-head laws that cuddle criminals instead of punishing them, I fear this system has had its longest time. Already it is deteriorating and unable to cope with the massive drain on it.

Anyway, here's something to laugh about with all this nationalism.

Top Ten Reasons for being French:
-=-=-=-=-=
1. By speaking fast you can make yourself sound gay.
2. You have yet to experience the joy of winning the World Cup.
3. You get to eat snails and frogs' legs.
4. If there's a war you can surrender really early.
5. You don't need to read the subtitles on those late night films on Channel Four.
6. You can test your nuclear weapons in other peoples' countries.
7. You can be ugly and still be a famous film star.
8. You can allow Germans to march up and down your most famous street.
9. You don't need proper toilets: just shit in the street.
10.People think you're a great lover, even when you're not.

Top Ten Reasons for being American:
-=-=-=-=-=
1. You can have a female President, even though you didn't elect her.
2. You can spell colour wrong and get away with it.
3. You can call Budweiser beer.
4. You can be a crook and still be President.
5. If you've got enough money you can get elected to do anything.
6. If you can breathe you can get a gun.
7. You get to be really obese.
8. You can play golf in the most hideous clothes imaginable and no-one minds.
9. You get to call everyone you've never met "buddy".
10.You can believe you're the greatest nation on Earth.

Top Ten Reasons for being English:
-=-=-=-=-=
1. Two World Wars and one World Cup, doo dah, doo dah.
2. You get to drink warm flat beer.
3. You can confuse everyone with the rules of cricket.
4. You get plenty of practice in graciously accepting defeat in major sporting events.
5. Union Jack underpants.
6. You can guarantee a water shortage every summer.
7. You can live in the past and imagine you're still a world power.
8. You can bath once a week, need it or not.
9. Ditto changing underwear.
10. It beats being Welsh. 10a Or Scottish.

Top Ten reasons for being Italian:
-=-=-=-=-=
1. You have an in-depth knowledge of bizarre pasta shapes.
2. You're unembarrassed to wear fur.
3. You don't need to worry about paying tax.
4. Your glorious military history. (Prior to 400 A.D.)
5. You can wear sunglasses indoors.
6. Your nation's political stability.
7. Flexible working hours.
8. You get to live near the Pope.
9. You can spend hours braiding your girlfriend's armpit hair.
10. It's a country run by Sicilian murderers.

Top Ten Reasons for being Spanish:
-=-=-=-=-=
1. You have a glorious history of killing South American tribes.
2. The rest of Europe thinks Africa starts at the Pyrenees.
3. You get your beaches invaded by Brits, Danes, Germans, etc.
4. The rest of your country is already invaded by Moroccans.
5. Everyone else makes crap paella.
6. Your inveterate honesty.
7. The only sure way of bedding a woman is to dress up in stupid, tight clothes and prance about in front of a bull.
8. You get to eat bulls' testicles.
9. You supported Argentina during the Falklands War.
10. Gibraltar.

Top Ten Reasons for being German:
-=-=-=-=-=
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

Top Ten Reasons for being Indian:
-=-=-=-=-=
1. Chicken Madras.
2. Lamb Passanda.
3. Onion Bhajee.
4. Bombay Duck.
5. Chicken Tikka Massala.
6. Rogan Josh.
7. Poppadoms.
8. Chicken Dupiaza.
9. Meat Bhoona.
10.Kingfisher lager.

Top Ten Reasons for being Welsh:
-=-=-=-=-=
1. You've got to laugh, don't ya?

Top Ten Reasons for being Irish:
-=-=-=-=-=
1. Guinness.
2. You can have 18 children because you can't use contraceptives.
3. You can get into a fight just by marching down someone's road.
4. You can use Papal Edicts on contraception passed in the Second Vatican Council of 1968 to persuade your girlfriend that you can't wear a condom.
5. The pubs never close.
6. No-one can ever remember the night before.
7. You can kill people who disagree with your political opinion.
8. Stew.
9. More Guinness.
10.You can eat Irish stew and drink Guinness in a pub at 3am after a bout of sectarian violence.

Top Ten Reasons for being Canadian:
-=-=-=-=-=
1. It beats hell out of being American.
2. Canada is the only country ever to invade the USA and burn its capital to the ground.
3. You can play ice hockey outdoors all year round.
4. Canada is the only country ever to invade the USA and burn its capital to the ground.
5. Where else can you travel 1000 miles on fresh water in a canoe?
6. A political leader can admit to smoking pot and his/her popularity increases.
7. Canada is the only country ever to invade the USA and burn its capital to the ground.
8. You can kill grizzly bears with a huge fuckoff shotgun and decorate your house with their skins.
9. The Own-An-Eskimo scheme.
10.Canada is the only country ever to invade the USA and burn its capital to the ground.

Top Ten Reasons for being Australian:
-=-=-=-=-=
1. You know that your great-great granddad was a murdering bastard who no civilised nation wanted.
2. Fosters lager.
3. You can dispossess Aborigines who lived in their country for 40,000 years because you think it belongs to you.
4. You can annihilate England at cricket.
5. Your tact and sensitivity.
6. Bondi Beach.
7. Other beaches.
8. Your liberated attitude to homosexuality.
9. You can drink cold lager on the beach.
10.You can have a bit of a swim and then drink some cold lager on the beach.

Top Ten Reasons for being Dutch:
-=-=-=-=-=
1. You can get arrested for growing plants, but not for smoking them.
2. You can make jokes about the Belgians and still drink their beer.
3. a. You can legally kill yourself b. You can legally be killed
4. You're exactly like the Germans, except that nobody hates you.
5. You think you are a world power, but everyone else thinks Copenhagen is your capital...
6. You get to insult people and defend yourself by saying it's a national tradition.
7. You can put your finger in a dyke and it will save your country.
8. You live in the most densely populated country in Europe, and still you've never seen your neighbours.
9. If the economy is bad, blame the Germans. If a war is started, blame the Germans. If you lose your keys, blame the Germans.
10. Bikes are public property. Locks are a challenge.




[This message has been edited by cherzra (edited 02-15-2002).]
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Postby Taegost » Fri Feb 15, 2002 5:24 pm

<B>
the murder of allende is one of the example at hand.</B>

I've never heard of that one, educate me, and I'll admit I was wrong on that point

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Taegost:
2) I never said the threat is gone, nor will it ever be,
[/B]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

actually you did say so, if ye want to take it back, ok by me, its possible to, in the heat of the debate say things you dont really mean...

I want a quote, I most certainly did NOT say that.

------------------
Taegost, The one and ONLY STUPER DRUID(tm)
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Postby Tesil » Fri Feb 15, 2002 5:45 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by fildur:
<B>
i believe that my points are kinda clear anyways, even if some ppl obviousky think that they are wrong or confused. anyone have a problem w my english, plz just read someones elses posts or shove it... Image

/fil

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No...your points are meaningless and moot when you can't spell, capitalize or puncuate correctly...like at least 2 other people here. Deal with it....or learn to write in a proper manner.
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Postby Yayaril » Fri Feb 15, 2002 5:47 pm

Taegost is wrong.


Yayaril
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Postby Ashiwi » Fri Feb 15, 2002 6:00 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Tesil:
<B> No...your points are meaningless and moot when you can't spell, capitalize or puncuate correctly...like at least 2 other people here. Deal with it....or learn to write in a proper manner.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


::blink::

Thank you for pointing out what is one of the worst American stereotypes there has got to be... the idea that just because somebody else doesn't speak or write our language perfectly must mean they're stupid or incapable of having valid opinions.

How embarrassing.
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Postby Tesil » Fri Feb 15, 2002 6:16 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ashiwi:
<B>
::blink::

Thank you for pointing out what is one of the worst American stereotypes there has got to be... the idea that just because somebody else doesn't speak or write our language perfectly must mean they're stupid or incapable of having valid opinions.

How embarrassing.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Try that thought in the business world and see how far it gets you. Enjoy. Image
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Postby Lyt » Fri Feb 15, 2002 6:20 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ashiwi:
<B>
::blink::

Thank you for pointing out what is one of the worst American stereotypes there has got to be... the idea that just because somebody else doesn't speak or write our language perfectly must mean they're stupid or incapable of having valid opinions.

How embarrassing.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Umm capitalization and punctuation are pretty universal. He probably butchers his own language as well.
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Postby fildur » Fri Feb 15, 2002 6:20 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Taegost:
<B>
the murder of allende is one of the example at hand.</B>

I've never heard of that one, educate me, and I'll admit I was wrong on that point
</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

the coup'd etat in chile 1973, common knowledge that cia was behind that...

led to the murder of president allende, yes elected by the chilenian ppl, but the us didnt like the way he promised to run things, so...

then ofcause the victims of pinochets reign in chile were numerous, they are all due to us policies...

and i added a quote of the claim that the us rid the world of the threat of nuclear war...
/fil
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Postby fildur » Fri Feb 15, 2002 6:37 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Lyt:
<B>
Umm capitalization and punctuation are pretty universal. He probably butchers his own language as well.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

caps are lame, just wears the shift key down Image, punctuation and commatation differs in different languages, and it also differs between different writers within the same language...

an if ye gots probs w my style of writing its your prob, not mine, and its all of topic...

/fil
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Postby Ashiwi » Fri Feb 15, 2002 6:43 pm

Mmmmmm, love those who can't read, yet condemn others for their methods of communication. Corth started this thread asking those of other countries how they felt about an issue, he did not start it asking "those of you from other countries with perfect english grammer and writing."

The business world? There are a lot of foreign industries which seem to be doing fine in "our" business world ... or did you forget that "business world" includes the word "world?" Do you really think that Microsoft blows off non-US multi-million dollar business deals because those they're dealing with don't speak perfect English? If you want to get a job at a McDonald's in Brooklyn, maybe your spoken and written english will prohibit you, if you want a job at a corporation which only wants english speaking employees it might prohibit you, if you want a menial job within a company where you have to be able to write memos and be understood by everybody who wants their trash taken out it might prohibit you. I've worked for Hitachi, and trust me, having perfectly fluent english is not a requirement for a six figure or higher yearly income. Business world? I work in the business world.

The US might not be as forgiving to some cultures for their lack of finesse in our language, but things are changing. Think spanish speaking Americans have to have perfect english in order to advance within the large corporations in the southwest? If you do, think again. The large corporations are learning that they want what it takes to do their job, and sometimes the person for that job might not speak the best english, but when you're a multi-billion dollar industry with global contacts, perfect english might not be necessary.

Sure, having fluent english skills would certainly help those who are first starting out in an english speaking environment, but in the business "world" perfect english is not the stressed requirement it was a decade ago. And to reiterate, perfect english was NOT a requirement for posting to this thread.
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Postby Zrax » Fri Feb 15, 2002 7:04 pm

There are several things that make up first impressions, appearance, mannerisms, and communication. If someone is an ineffective commuicator then it leaves a negative impression. I have had some difficulties understanding the intent of some of Fildurs posts, so it is relevant. If you have a point to make, take the time to make it clear at least, it makes your communication more efficient, and adds credibility to your ideas.
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Postby Zagaz » Fri Feb 15, 2002 7:23 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by fildur:
<B> bah, _forgive_me_ for not being native english, _forgive_me_ for not following every good writing/spellinmg rule. Image

i believe that my points are kinda clear anyways, even if some ppl obviousky think that they are wrong or confused. anyone have a problem w my english, plz just read someones elses posts or shove it... Image

/fil

ps on the other hand, i think gettin a description approved by mystra on s2 qualifies for at least some grades in english... Image</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I do not know where you are from, but I am perfectly able to understand what you are saying, you can get your points across fine. Then again, I rarely make sense either, and I am a Canadian, maybe that is why. In an environment like this, where there are no borders, and no links to the 'business world' who in tarnation gives a rats ass about 'perfect' written communication, certainly not I. I appluade anyone who can butcher the english langauge, I di it quite frequently!!


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