tiamat

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cherzra
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tiamat

Postby cherzra » Sun Aug 19, 2001 3:46 pm

I heard rumors this 'zone' was redone, is it?

I hope so, because it frankly sucked bigtime. No strategy, just walk in, die 3x entering, die 4x getting to tiamat and then die 5x trying to kill it.

Last wipe we couldn't do it, and this time around dragons shrug 90% of everything and hitters are even less hitters than they were last time, so I don't see anyone ever doing this zone.
Ragorn
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Postby Ragorn » Sun Aug 19, 2001 7:50 pm

Rogues don't suck at melee anymore, and weapons proc offhand.

I'd say hitters are MORE powerful than they were last wipe. Maybe not relative to say, necromancers, but relative to mobs.

- Ragorn
Trogar
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Postby Trogar » Mon Aug 20, 2001 7:17 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by cherzra:
I hope so, because it frankly sucked bigtime. No strategy, just walk in </font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No strategy? That's not true. There were many ways to optimize the situation. You just need to put some thought into it.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Last wipe we couldn't do it, and this time around dragons shrug 90% of everything and hitters are even less hitters than they were last time, so I don't see anyone ever doing this zone.</font>


Heheheh. We all know I'm the only person on Soj3 who can do Tiamat. Just bring on the zone and some downtime for us to prepare.

Trogar HolyAnvil
Altan
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Postby Altan » Mon Aug 20, 2001 12:22 pm

No offense Trogar, but.. I doubt that.

If I remember right, I went on only 5 tiamat runs, 1 was Mplor, 1 was Vadicus, 1 you and 2 Corth, now to reiterrate that, 0 was you and 3 was corth, because YOU couldn't finish the zone, and ended up we had to all meet again the next morn'n with Corth leading.
I DO NOT mean this to sound condesending, it's not ment that way, but you make it sound like your the only one who ever lead Tia, As many times as I grouped with you, and I do respect aspects of your leading, I do NOT think you could lead Tiamat at this time, and that's coming from me currently, as a level 20 cleric, and my alt, who's not level 20 and has YET to do a zone, heh.. I'm just saying thatI don't know what "strategy" YOU have in mind, but it's basicially, send tank (vited cleric) thru pool, and rush in and try and kill the reds, if ya do, then do that same thing till the cleric dies and we all need ress's. Image
I dunno what strategy you may have this round, but last few wipes it was all for one and one for all and ta hell with the deaths..

Altan.
Trogar
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Postby Trogar » Mon Aug 20, 2001 10:06 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Altan:
If I remember right, I went on only 5 tiamat runs, 1 was Mplor, 1 was Vadicus, 1 you and 2 Corth, now to reiterrate that, 0 was you and 3 was corth, because YOU couldn't finish the zone, and ended up we had to all meet again the next morn'n with Corth leading. </font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heh. Ok to start. If you only followed me to tia once, you came to the first time we tried the upgraded Tiamat, which was a disaster. The other group that tried Tiamat the first time was also a disaster, but they had 2 Avernus's, Twilights, and 5-6 other lesser artifacts over us, and that power lessened the damage. It was after that first attempt that we sat down and thought about how to improve the sitation.

The first upgraded attempt I think you were on crack. We never reassembled in the mourning under Corth, we were there all night. We never left. Was 14 hours of hell! It was actually one of our defining moments as a group. After we killed Tiamat at like 10am, I was deadly tired (a very stresfull night) and I asked corth to kill Dracolich for me so I could log and sleep. Dracolich is a wimp. For you to say that I didn't finish Tiamat that trip is crap, and either you are stupid or don't understand whats going on. Corth never said I couldn't finish it. If you are goign to say something, please get your facts straight.

For the record also, I did tia 7x, Corth 2x, Mplor 2x, Vadicus 0x. I have them all logged if you want.

and I do respect aspects of your leading,

That's ok, you dont have to group with me. I don't care, I'm quite fine as it is.

Tro
sok
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Postby sok » Mon Aug 20, 2001 10:08 pm

i heard that illustionist get a spell to teleport the fight into another room? oh wait... 1st room no magic. *shrug* maybe send fondle go n and use the illustionist spell?
Trogar
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Postby Trogar » Mon Aug 20, 2001 10:17 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Altan:
<B>I'm just saying thatI don't know what "strategy" YOU have in mind, but it's basicially, send tank (vited cleric) thru pool, and rush in and try and kill the reds, if ya do, then do that same thing till the cleric dies and we all need ress's. Image
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, I forgot to quote this part in my last message. Let me continue.

See, your whole retarded message is based on one trip. Yes, the first time we did the upgraded tiamat, we were a bit loss as what to do. So were all the other groups that tried it the first time. That's how the mud works when you explore new zones. You know the first jot exploration took like 20 hours.

And there are many strategies that helped in future runs. After the first upgraded trip, we had to sit down and evaulate what went wrong. After doing several tiamat runs, we found good ways to effiecntly do the baby reds and other mobs. The baby reds are killable in 30 minutes with some luck. We managed to kill the entire tiamat zone in 3 hours on two occasions (of course thats with artifacts and perm hasted monks - not doable now). If you only came to the first time we did the upgraded Tiamat, is that much to make such a judgement on, is it?

I think your problem here is that you don't understand how hard it is to explore new zones. The first time you try anything, it is going to me a major spank. That's life on the mud. So before posting stupid comments Altan, please get your facts straight.

Tro
Trogar
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Postby Trogar » Mon Aug 20, 2001 10:21 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by sok:
i heard that illustionist get a spell to teleport the fight into another room? oh wait... 1st room no magic. *shrug* maybe send fondle go n and use the illustionist spell?</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, they do. Toddrick had a version of that spell in his artifact. That spell is usefull cause u can teleport out and heal. hehe. Its cool

Tro
Corth
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Postby Corth » Tue Aug 21, 2001 12:38 am

Hopefully I can put a rest to this off-topic subject...

Altan, I dont understand the reason for your post. What tro says is true, I only lead dracho because he had to take off. As far as it taking 15 hours, this is true. But it was a new zone to us, and besides, I took a large role in planning strategy with tro. If it took too long, it was just as much my fault as his.

The upgraded tiamat area was intensely stressful to lead. There were a zillion things that a leader had to keep track of. In fact, on one of the runs that I lead, tro had to take over for a while because the stress got to me. Likewise, when Mplor lead once, he turned the group over to me after a couple of unsuccessful runs on tiamat. It happens to the best of us.

Anyways, I am very proud of the accomplishments our little gang had on toril. We were the only group that was able to give Toddrick any competition at all, and I dont think I'm bragging when I say that at one point, we were definately superceding him.

Altan, I of course consider you a great friend, one of my oldest and best on the mud. Your also one of the best clerics I ever had the opportunity to group with Image However, I would appreciate it if you wouldn't bring my name into these types of posts.

Corth

[This message has been edited by Corth (edited 08-20-2001).]
Mplor
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Postby Mplor » Tue Aug 21, 2001 4:35 pm

Leading Tiamat can be the single worst experience for a leader, win or lose. First, you are responsible for months of preparation. Then, you gotta take your 20+ players and commit them to death, repeatedly. You scan west and see the pile of pcorpses that exceeds your tog screen length. And even if you do everything right, the last fight comes down to the luck of the draw: who does she PWK first, and how many total. There were times it was all i could dig up from the bottom of my character to get on gsay and say "We're going at her again. Pass the word." I doubt many players can imagine feeling that low, and feeling so much obligation to the people who have sacrificed so much to get this far that you know you'll endure what you must to get the job done.

Anyone who has led tiamat hasn't done it alone. It takes a whole bunch of players who have prepared with the proper levels and equipment, who are willing to throw themselves on the teeth of the dragon repeatedly, and as many lieutenants as you can get managing the sub-processes of the team, like the retrievers-of-the-dead, the pendant-cyclers, the guy who's willing to suicide CR the equipped corpses while you are busy giving the group instructions.

Perhaps the best Tia memory I have is actually when it crashed just as we were working on the baby red dragons. The group was back together instantly (no dang rare-hunters!), cleared astral in 20min, and finished Tiamat in ~3hrs after the mud had booted. That was near the end, and we were pretty damn powerful by then, but equipment-power means nothing without an expert team. That time there were at least 3 people there besides me who could have led the whole thing.

I doubt I'll bother with Tiamat again. Mplor is an Invoker, since monks were ganked, and frankly it's my form of protest that the ultimate encounter in the game is coded in a way that 100% negates any contribution I could make to the entire effort.

Mp
Sylvos
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Postby Sylvos » Tue Aug 21, 2001 4:48 pm

I never led Tiamat. For a number of reasons, largely because I didn't think I'd ever be able to get the folks to follow me, didn't have the time to put into the preparation, and didn't have the patience and temerity to take the responsibility for all the work.

But I killed Tiamat - not as often as some but I was there at least a half-dozen times as either Sylvos or Thuro. And even though the leader I usually followed isn't around anymore, I'm going to say thanks to everyone who DID lead it. Probably the people who can understand best what it was like are the admins on this mud, and I don't pretend to. But you folks gave a lot of people a chance at the ultimate challenge in the MUD, and I'm sure put up with more than your own fair share of crap and whining from people in the group.

Hats off folks for leading it - got more guts and patience than I've got. I agree with Cherzra(from the original posting.) that I hope there's a change made to the zone or mobs within. It's supposed to be a challenge that slays a fair amount of people I presume, but some of the death counts really were ridiculous. But I'm enough of a sucker that I'll probably go along if asked, just because nothing quite beats a round where all you can see is this.

OUCH
OUCH
OUCH
OUCH
YIKES!!
You have been FULLY HEALED!
You have been FULLY HEALED!

Happy mudding

-Sylvos
rylan
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Postby rylan » Tue Aug 21, 2001 5:18 pm

*nods* sylvos Image

From what I udnerstand tia's area is getting a major overhaul. Its obvious the zone will have to be changed and tia's procs revamped if its intended to be killed at some point using a ~15 person group. Also, FH pendants are not something you can get easily or quickly.. its gonna take a massive amount of effort just to get 1 pendant now, so that'll also have to change how everything is balanced.

Personally I'm not worring about it for a while, and I'm sure its lower down on the coders list of things to do, since I don't think any current group of 15 could kill a revamped tia. Hell, its only a few months into the mud.. no group should be able to wack tia yet Image

If you want a long, fun, tough fight to hold you over for a while, go to air plane and kill yan-c-bin Image

[This message has been edited by rylan (edited 08-21-2001).]
Jasix Prowlingwolf
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Postby Jasix Prowlingwolf » Mon Aug 27, 2001 5:43 am

Hmmm well my first thought is, shut the hell up, get ya pendants and SHOW us you can do it all again! (most of the leaders who have lead Tiamat have been or now are friends of mine so dont take it personally)

I'm not gunna say I could lead Tiamat, these days i can barely get 5 hicks to kill pods for copper... Getting 30 people to work together is a big ask at the best of times. (yes 30 you always have a few having to leave).

In the few Tiamat runs i did with Toddrick during soj1 (after upgrade) we didn't have many hassles at all. *cept for that time we had all the baby reds in the same room and we got spanked a bit.* heheh but definitly made up with the time we did all the baby reds in 15 minutes.

The reason i think Tiamat is such a bitch for groups these days is NO MONKS!! Monk kicked ass at Tia! (any everywhere else) Pure damage!

I'd like to see if rangers and rogues can fill the shoes of the monks damage for tiamat if offensive spells are not getting through.

I was about to sprout off about a few things others had compained to me about when following other leaders during Tia but I'll leave it alone as hear-say for now.

If Tia was just a matter of grabbing any 20 or so players of mixed classes, jumping into the pool and killing dragons then we would do Tiamat every other day. It aint, and the best leader in the world aint going to just do it easy if he is followed by a lot of no idea tools.. Tia takes a lot more then just a good leader, but it's adamn good start!

Jasix 'Don't follow fools' Prowlingwolf
Jethrus
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Postby Jethrus » Tue Aug 28, 2001 9:38 pm

I would say there are definate pro's and cons to the timat experience. I have done her many time and spent literally days of my life killing a mob on a mud. I can remember one night I was at Allycis's house and we did tiamat, at 4am I had to keep hitting him to wake him up to gheal us as we went in for round 12 or so on tiamat, that was at hour 17 or so. The major downside is that more and more I have noticed people having alot of RL activity going on, which means that you can't dedicate a 16 hour block to doing a zone. On the positive side, its fun to have a zone that takes a good group of people to do and really makes you be creative in dealing with the problems that you encounter. I too miss being a monk at tiamat w/ mplor, the good ole days are gone though. I think the best thing about having a zone that takes preperation and heart to do is that you can give out equipment that is powerful and not risk it being overpopulated in the mud. For as powerful as Dawnsfire was, I never worried about every ranger in the game having one =). Anyways thats just my feelings.
-Jethrus- The Few, The Proud, The Monks
Jarid
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Postby Jarid » Wed Aug 29, 2001 11:40 am

As one of those people that did tiamat like 25 times I have a small comment:

Kurz and Toddrick...'nuff said.

Jarid -=Pissed Ranger after having his 6 year old name declined=-

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