Cheaters? Tell or Not - Expansion on Gogk's OOC!

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Lirathal
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Cheaters? Tell or Not - Expansion on Gogk\'s OOC!

Postby Lirathal » Sun Aug 26, 2001 7:30 pm

Well I thought that I would put this up on the board just because it seemed to get a varied response from the players on the mud. Gogk's question over ooc was something to the effect of: "Do you tell your girlfriend/boyfriend if you cheat on them"
well that spouted a large ooc debate and so I thought that bringing it to the board would be most appropriate thing to do.

Well I guess it's my turn to add my two cents, I honestly think that if you cheat on your girlfriend/boyfriend that they deserve to know. If you lie, your going to get caught, it doesn't matter what you do to cover it up. It's better to come out with the truth and let the chips fall where they may.

Well I'll post more later when I have some responses to battle .. err I mean respond to.

Regards,
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Delmair Aamoren
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Postby Delmair Aamoren » Sun Aug 26, 2001 7:47 pm

I say, what ya don't know, can't hurt ya.
Ignorance is bliss.
I mean, i was perfectly content not knowin that my ex was cheatin on me. The hell broke loose only when i found out!
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Postby Lirathal » Sun Aug 26, 2001 7:52 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Delmair Aamoren:
<B>I say, what ya don't know, can't hurt ya.
Ignorance is bliss.
I mean, i was perfectly content not knowin that my ex was cheatin on me. The hell broke loose only when i found out!</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hahaha so your satisfied not knowing some other guy has his meat in your girlfriend? Ignorance isn't bliss, it's just a way of pretending that she isn't a wench.
IMHO
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Postby rylan » Sun Aug 26, 2001 8:50 pm

I'd rather know when it happens, instead of later down the road, so I don't end up wasting time with the person.
As you said, you'll find out eventually.. it just leads to more hurt when it comes out that its been covered up for a while.
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Postby azzixxenae » Sun Aug 26, 2001 10:17 pm

what goes TDY

Stays TDY.
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Postby Elseenas » Mon Aug 27, 2001 12:14 am

I am very open about it, I make only one request: if it happens, I hear about it within reasonable time from my SO.

If I hear it from someone else first... then I get touchy.

------------------

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Postby Lonel » Mon Aug 27, 2001 1:58 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I say, what ya don't know, can't hurt ya.
Ignorance is bliss.
I mean, i was perfectly content not knowin that my ex was cheatin on me. The hell broke loose only when i found out! </font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Personally, if my girlfriend was getting it on with another guy at the same time as she was dating me I would be pissed and quite repulsed. Whatever floats your boat.



------------------
Your purse seems lighter.
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Postby Jasix Prowlingwolf » Mon Aug 27, 2001 3:25 am

Hmm well since i am single irl i think lie to them, i'm usualy on the other side of the fence... still doing up my pants as i jump out the window and run home :P
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Postby Ragorn » Mon Aug 27, 2001 3:28 am

I say tell me. So that I can kick your skank ass to the curb now as opposed to later. See, if my girlfriend tells me the day after it happens, I'll probably just get pissed and leave her. If she tells me later, I'll throw her out and ship her all of her stuff in a box.

If I find out on my own, I'll change the locks and sell all her stuff Image

- Ragorn
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Postby Vylare » Mon Aug 27, 2001 10:50 pm

OK, these statements are all based on my assumption that your S.O. is under the impression your relation is monogamous, if not it's kind of hard to cheat on someone. Image
I personally think you need to tell her, if for no other reason than that you could potentially have exposed her to disease and she needs to know that.
Of course there is also the fact that you are in effect lying to her by allowing her to believe she is in a monogamous relationship.
I've heard a lot of excuses for cheating in my life, never heard a good one yet.
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Postby sok » Mon Aug 27, 2001 11:11 pm

since i'm a good kid i would cheat or accept cheating. but if i was a bad kid and she was cheating w/ another female than it's okay if i was allow to join in or watch but unacceptable if they are being exclusives and not allow sok participation. too bad i'm a good kid.
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Postby Gort » Tue Aug 28, 2001 4:27 pm

IMHO:

If you're being cheated on, you have 3 legal choices ( ones that won't get you thrown in jail)

1. Accept that what's good for the goose is good for the gander, and that's the level of your relationship, communicate this to her.

2. Accept that she's cheating but remain faithful knowing she's not ( the doormat technique, not recommended)

3. Give her the boot.

Non- legal recourse may feel good for a few minutes, but its sure to get ya talked about.


Toplack, the wizened former womanizer, now relationship philosopher.
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Postby Ubek » Wed Aug 29, 2001 9:21 pm

Haha Toplack.

My girl cheated on me? It's over.

Would I cheat and tell? First off, If I needed to cheat, I'd atleast have enough balls to drop the old baggage in order to get a new one. I'm confident enough to know damn well, I would not cheat. It's just a matter of before penetration, you make that call, ring ring .. Hey Bitch, it's over, *click* There I dumped her, now can I stick it in? :P Duh...
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Postby Tasan » Wed Aug 29, 2001 11:43 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ubek:
<B>Haha Toplack.

My girl cheated on me? It's over.

Would I cheat and tell? First off, If I needed to cheat, I'd atleast have enough balls to drop the old baggage in order to get a new one. I'm confident enough to know damn well, I would not cheat. It's just a matter of before penetration, you make that call, ring ring .. Hey Bitch, it's over, *click* There I dumped her, now can I stick it in? :P Duh...</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is one of the reasons the veterans say taking Normandy wasn't worth it for what we have now.

Twyl shakes his head.
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Postby Nitania » Thu Aug 30, 2001 1:24 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ubek:
<B>Haha Toplack.

My girl cheated on me? It's over.

Would I cheat and tell? First off, If I needed to cheat, I'd atleast have enough balls to drop the old baggage in order to get a new one. I'm confident enough to know damn well, I would not cheat. It's just a matter of before penetration, you make that call, ring ring .. Hey Bitch, it's over, *click* There I dumped her, now can I stick it in? :P Duh...</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is point AND case why women hate men.

*duck*
:P

Nitania
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Postby Ashiwi » Thu Aug 30, 2001 1:33 pm

Sorry, a man who would break up with a chick over the phone just so he could get laid by somebody else and not feel guilty really doesn't have any balls at all.

This is one more topic I know I shouldn't get into, but dammit, it takes balls to treat people with respect, no matter what you might feel like doing for instant gratification, and that includes respect to your significant other. Any worm can crawl away and satisfy an itch, any worm can breed, to be a decent human being it takes honesty and effort. If you're too much of a puss to stand up for yourself and break it off right, why get into the commitment in the first place? Because you can? You're big, bad and tough because you can screw around, but when it comes to doing what you know is the right thing to do, you cave and hide behind that mile-wide yellow streak on your back, doing your best to pretend you're still being tough?

If that's the best you have to offer, do us a favor and do what worms are so well known for... go breed with yourself.
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Postby Dalar » Thu Aug 30, 2001 4:30 pm

interesting conversation...

was just wondering, how far do you have to go for it to be considered "cheating".
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Postby Jethrus » Thu Aug 30, 2001 4:33 pm

Wow some lovely sentiment here for sure. My response is I would need to know. For 2 reasons, 1. that might be it for me... 2. if I forgive her and it happens down the line... 2 strikes and you're out. As for me I wouldn't ever cheat on my gf, its poor form. If you want to mess around with lots of people thats your perogative, just don't get into a relationship before doing it. Respect yourself and your partner.
-Jethrus Monk of Yore
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Postby Elseenas » Thu Aug 30, 2001 11:29 pm

Dalar:
I can live and let live so long as the actions don't put me at risk. If he is sexually active with me, he had best not even *think* about doing anything that might give him (and consequently his gf) something communicable.

Beyond that, as I said, if I know it happened I don't tend to worry about it. As gort said, I'll just let that be the level of our relationship.

------------------

Elseenas of No House Worth Mentioning
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Postby Ubek » Fri Aug 31, 2001 3:04 pm

Haha Ashiwi and Nitania u are both hilarious... Image

Ashiwi, I think you took the last portion of my comment far too serious. Here's a hint - If a man breaks up with you over the phone, he's not worth it, if a woman allows you to break up with your girlfriend over the phone, she's not worth. Respect is letting someone know it's over before you cheat on them, how you do it, is how much respect you have for that person.

Women love me, u may not, but that's just cause yer jealous... **duck**
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Postby ShaylaRose » Fri Aug 31, 2001 3:51 pm

If it weren't for people like Ubek, men wouldn't be half bad. :P But, god, those self-absorbed egotistic -bleeps- seem to be as infestuous as cockroaches and as hard to kill. Maybe its been too recent since my latest escape from a relationship (an overbearing bodybuilder who thought he *owned* me), but I'd rather not have to deal with the Ubek types here in my escape Image

Blah, I get hit on multiple times just about every day of my life and just wish that more of them had some charm, a romantic nature, and a honest heart. Tired of the overblown "players" who look at me as some prize trophy to score so that they can have bragging rights or some "piece" to show off to everyone. Yeah, right.

Ashiwi was 100% correct, and Ubek's little jibe of a reply makes me laugh. Any woman who would be jealous of the girl he is with (if they actually are) is someone to take pity upon for having a terribly low self-esteem that she would need someone who thinks its cool to act the way he does.

Ah, where are the gallant knights of our world? =)

Hugs!
Shayla
- Aedyra the Elven Enchantress
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Postby Zrax » Fri Aug 31, 2001 3:54 pm

Chivalry is dead, and women killed it.
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Postby ShaylaRose » Fri Aug 31, 2001 4:18 pm

Oh, he he, and to answer the original question, I want to know. Its a lot better than finding out by walking in on someone cheating or hearing it through the grapevine. If there's any chance of saving the relationship, straight forward honesty is the only possible course.

Elseenas, you are one brave woman Image Besides, I'd rather not fight fire with fire. Getting laid is easy. Finding someone to share my precious time with, on the other hand, takes a lot more effort.

I think we can all assume Zrax doesn't have the first clue on what chivalry is now =P

Shayla
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Postby Elseenas » Fri Aug 31, 2001 4:35 pm

"Finding someone to share my precious time with, on the other hand, takes a lot more effort."

::sighs:: Very true, sadly.

"Ah, where are the gallant knights of our world? =)"

::grins::

Okay, sorry everyone, but I can't resist (not that I am calling even most knights in the Society particularly "gallant" but heh...):

The Dream, by Lord Randel the Malcontent. Copyright 1996. Tune of "After the Gold Rush"

I am lost inside a plastic landscape
Where I know I don't fit in.
Working in a cube from time to time,
Filling up my plastic bin...

I long to lift a sword,
At a maiden's keen distress.
Saving us from mediocrity,
And this techno-emptiness.

I have joined with my fellow prisoners.
Pledged my honor and my life.
Cutting through the mechanistic wire
With anachronistic knife...

I found a fellowship,
With a past I've never seen,
And ironically I only come awake,
When I'm living in the Dream...

sca.org

(the long version goes on from there)

------------------

Elseenas of No House Worth Mentioning

[This message has been edited by Elseenas (edited 08-31-2001).]
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Postby Ashiwi » Fri Aug 31, 2001 5:49 pm

Ubek, you must realize that the comments I made, while seemingly directed at you in particular, were directed toward all men who fall into that mindset. Sadly enough, there are lots of them out there. Any woman who has been on the dating scene for any length of time has run into them, men who treat women like property, like objects, like semen receptacles and nothing more, yet expect each and every woman they come across to act thankful that he allowed her to be part of that experience.

As for the whole "cheating and lying/honesty" thing. Just in case I sound bitter about the whole situation, just understand that I've been there. Although there is never a good excuse for cheating, mistakes are made. In the ideal relationship, cheating would never be an issue, a man who truly valued and respected his partner would not put himself in a situation where mistakes like that could occur. That's the ideal relationship, though, and does not take into account the wisdom, maturity, and background of the people involved.

Speaking only from experience...
I could understand that he "made a mistake," the he got "carried away with the moment," that he was "overwhelmed by the way she made him feel," that he "got caught up in it and just couldn't seem to stop," or any other reason a man might use for his cheating. We are all human, and we all have needs and desires that sometimes take us beyond the realm of common sense, fantasies that sometimes become too real, self doubts that lead us to believe that there is greener grass somewhere other than where we are standing. We have all at one time or another experienced the "if onlies." If only I had a new job everything would be alright, if only I had $XX.00 life would be good, if I could only get that stereo, if only the mud would come up, if only it wouldn't rain. There are just times when we are not satisfied with the lives we lead and look elsewhere for our happiness, and sometimes that equates to cheating.

If it happened once, maybe twice over the span of many years, it would hurt deeply, it would be a rift in the relationship that would take serious effort to repair, but it would still be a forgivable thing. Once he starts lying about it, though, the question is open as to how many other times it has happened that he has not told you about. Once he starts lying about something that could so deeply affect the relationship, the whole relationship comes into question, after all, if he would lie about something so important, what else would he lie about? Cheating damages the faith that your partner has in you, yes, but if it was a mistake, if it's not something that happens on a regular basis, then lying about it can only make it worse.

Women know, they figure these things out. Either in the way a man looks at her, talks to her, touches her, or a myriad of other ways that two people who are intimate with each other communicate. If you want to keep your relationship with your significant other, tell the truth about what happened, make all your excuses and promises, and expect to have to put out serious effort into regaining her trust.

Tune in for the next "Ask Ashiwi" where we answer the age old question posed by Ubek, "Why do women always seem to fall for the jerks?"

(j/k I see where you're coming from Ubek)
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Postby Zrax » Fri Aug 31, 2001 6:15 pm

In a capitalist society, relationships between women and men are wrought of economic necessity or convenience. The feelings of either party are fairly irrelevant as long as the functional aspects of the relationship are fulfilled. Hopeless romantics are hopeless because they are poor bastards. bye

(zrax)
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Postby ShaylaRose » Fri Aug 31, 2001 6:19 pm

-lol!- Well, I was wrong! Clearly you are a charmer Image

Still giggling,
Shayla
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Postby Zrax » Fri Aug 31, 2001 6:32 pm

You know it!

Hey baby whats your net annual income....

.zrax.
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Postby sok » Fri Aug 31, 2001 6:58 pm

for the bible folks
3 reason u can get divorce
1. adultery
2. death
3. unequally yolk
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Postby Nokie » Fri Aug 31, 2001 7:15 pm

I heard on the radio that a study was done on the "bible belt" southern states, and the married folks that did not attend church or did not beleive in God had a much much lower divorce rate than those that do.

Food for thought.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by sok:
<B>for the bible folks
3 reason u can get divorce
1. adultery
2. death
3. unequally yolk</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



------------------
Nokie 'No you don't!! That belongs to me!' Quickfingers
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Postby Dalar » Fri Aug 31, 2001 7:45 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Elseenas:
<B>Dalar:
I can live and let live so long as the actions don't put me at risk. If he is sexually active with me, he had best not even *think* about doing anything that might give him (and consequently his gf) something communicable.

Beyond that, as I said, if I know it happened I don't tend to worry about it. As gort said, I'll just let that be the level of our relationship.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

so.. you wouldn't care if your bf was making out, groping etc. other girls just as long as he's not having sex w/ them?

<------ noob at relationships
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Postby Brog » Fri Aug 31, 2001 7:58 pm

Well, to be perfectly honest. When current fiance and I started dating I cheated on her. Now, the next day I sat down and had a serious talk with her about it. It was probably one of the hardest things I have ever had to do. I regret that it happened because of the pain it caused her, however it did happen and I believe it was due to some serious problems in our relationship. For a while we weren't sure if we were gonna stay togethere. Her gut instinct was to leave and I didn't blame her one bit. At the time we were dating but I had never promised her I would be monogomous. However in any relationship when you become very close to someone it is basically understood that you are monogamous.

The thing is it made us both realize that we had to do some serious soul searching to do and that we needed to make a serious commitment, or go our seperate ways.

Personally, I am glad I got that out of my system and got my head straightened out. I am glad I had the balls to confront her and am very thankful to her for forgiving me and giving me a second chance with her. Honestly, we have been together for 4 years since that happened and I don't want any other woman. Image

Just my personal experience,
Honesty is the best policy, however painful.

Brog
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Postby sok » Fri Aug 31, 2001 8:07 pm

i actually know of that study nokie. bible belt states have a higher divorce rate. the point i wanted to make was that cheating/adultery are valid grounds for leaving/divorce. but i think brog's testimony is indication of attempting to resolving the problem before leaving.
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Postby Zrax » Fri Aug 31, 2001 8:16 pm

Bah, what is all this talk of feelings, caring, love.... these are all intangable concepts developed by the mind of the weak. Utility and functionality are the only things relevant.

>zrax<
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Postby Zen » Fri Aug 31, 2001 8:41 pm

For A point of clarification-

There is only one reason for divorce to be found in the bible: Adultery. It puts things in an interesting light.

For A few remarkable thoughts-

There is something special that happens between and man and a woman during sex. You can call it what you like, and you can label it however you like it. You can say it's just physical, you can mark it down on the emotional euphoria, but you can't say it's not there. It's the reason you keep going back to your love, it's definitely there, whatever it is. I haven't been married long enough now to understand it, or to even think that I could give it a name, but something happens between my wife and I that changes the nature of our relationship day by day. It's a kind of growing close together.

Whatever you call it, this kind of feeling is part of the human nature. I think that's what makes cheating and adultery so dangerous. You say to your mate that all that time spent growing close, all the things you've done together, are worth unraveling for a moment of purely physical pleasure. And that's only if you're just in it for the sex. Worse yet is what you say if you admit the spiritual and emotional (or whatever you call it) nature of sex. Then what you are saying is that all you've shared with her is so unremarkable, so anti-specially dull, that you're willing to give it to a stranger.

-Zen
~Zaryn

Absolute honesty, even if it hurts them.
Absolute loyalty, even if it hurts you.
Absolute love, even if you have to drive nails through your hands to prove it.

P.s. - Don't even think about posting anything else that sets Ashiwi off, I don't have time to read anymore long winded girltalk. =P
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Postby Ashiwi » Fri Aug 31, 2001 9:53 pm

"Long winded girltalk?"
You'll get yers, me boy'o, I have a soapbox set aside with your name written on it, and a bullhorn for when my voice starts to get weak!
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Postby rylan » Sat Sep 01, 2001 4:26 am

hehehe Image
Well said back there ashiwi Image

Now hopefully I'll find someone who will be faithful too. My last gf wasn't after we've been together for over a year, and that just sucked.
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Postby Mplor » Sat Sep 01, 2001 9:17 am

Zen, that sounded like it could have come straight out of a pamphlet stuck in my front door when I get home from work. But that last triplet was a good example of where enthusiasm crosses the line into creepiness. Aside from the pleasant self mutilation theme, I have come to the conclusion there is nothing good in this world that cannot be corrupted by being held as 'absolute'.

But suprisingly enough, I agree entirely with your core sentiment on relationships. Image

[This message has been edited by Mplor (edited 09-01-2001).]
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Postby sok » Sat Sep 01, 2001 4:28 pm

i saw a movie and a smart guy said:

"it's not cheaping because it's your dog"
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Postby Ashiwi » Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:02 pm

Dalar

What is cheating? Everybody's definition of what is right and wrong is different. I can only tell you some of the things I would have problems with.

Peck on the cheek - no problem
Lingering on the lips or tongue involved - problem
Flashing your buddies while drunk - no problem
Whipping it out to show some chick your new piercing without my approval and presence - problem
Looking at porn - no problem
Letting some chick you're alone with flash you and not getting the hell out of Dodge - problem
Giving a friend a hug - no problem
Giving a friend a grope - problem
Going to a titty bar - no problem
Going to a woman's house alone when you know she has the hots for you - problem
Having cybersex - no problem (it's like looking at porn)
Making plans to meet your cyberpartner to consummate the relationship - problem
Getting together with an ex to chat - no problem
Getting together with an ex when she hits on you and tries to get you in the sack every time she sees you - problem

Basically, if you don't put yourself into a situation that's questionable, you shouldn't have problems.

Things I consider cheating are the things I think my significant other should really only be doing with me...
Anything involving his tongue
Anything involving another tongue touching him
Anything involving genitalia
Anything involving the breast or nipple(unless he had a job as a piercer or tattoo artist, which he doesn't)

There are exceptions to the rule in really bizarre occasions, but you have to make that call yourself. If you wouldn't want your significant other to do it, it's a good bet you probably shouldn't be doing it.
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Postby Wargo » Sun Sep 02, 2001 1:55 am

What is all this shallow talk?!

Taoism states that every man and woman are merely elements of the universe. Everything we do and every choice we make are merely actions and reactions of the nature. There is nothing to think about. Only the silly and the unguided ponder over trivial things. If it happened, happens, or will happen, then it is meant to be.

Buddhism says that every person is a soul inside a flesh bag. The well being and the interactions of the flesh bags are insignificant. It is only the enlightenment of the soul that matters.

Now with the above philosophy in mind, reconsider the topic. Should you tell if you cheated? Should you cheat? Or is this all an illusion?

Yssilk The Enlightened
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Postby Zen » Sun Sep 02, 2001 2:10 am

Mplor, surely you must understand that our ideas, even the very 'core' of our understanding and attitudes comes from our assumption, even without knowing it, in absolutes. Whether these absolutes are universal or not, I'll leave to you to decide. My opinions are my own. I would however suggest that everyone I have ever met has gone through life with one absolute they can't question: Their perception. (Taking the definition of absolute an unarguable state.)

That aside, if you say that anyone who claims to be 'absolute' 'pure' or 'holy' with 100% certified certainty, is selling something and lying to you, that I would agree with. Absolute loyalty and absolute love are ideals, and no mere mortal could ever convince me they embodied these things. By the same token, nothing could ever keep me from striving for these 'absolutes' that you question. Absolute good is good, absolutely uncorruptable, and inhuman.

That aside, and furthermore sticking to the main topic:

After Ashiwi's wonderfully brief list of anatomical do's and don'ts, I might propose a simpler, if more subjective, definition. Cheating is any action or relationship is forbidden by the nature of the moral relationship between two individuals.

I use the term moral, not to invoke a specific morality, but to point out that relationships are a moral dilema in that they require us to act upon our basic values. If promises are exchanged, they need to be kept. A relationship with a lier is closer to an enemy than a friend.

-Zen

99% of the population needs to have their heads examined.
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Postby Zen » Sun Sep 02, 2001 2:20 am

Wargo, if there is nothing to think about then we all are stupid. If all we do is fated as part of the natural cycle of the universe, then there is no choice. Examine for yourself if you find this to be true? Humanity is finite, but not without thought. We have choices, and therefore we have dilema. The question of do, or do not, is only relevant to those who wish to take responsibility for their actions, don't you agree? Those who do not care about what happens after, are perfectly willing to press the little red button, now.

-Zen
Perception is an illusion, what is true exists without preception.
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Postby Mplor » Sun Sep 02, 2001 2:51 am

The skill of being able to live as if our sensory perception is absolute and real is given to all. The ability to live as if our perception is real, yet understanding that it is only a shadow of what might be named the divine (and unknowable), is given to the enlightened. The understanding that relative values, which falsely claim a root in the absolute, are nonetheless valuable instruments in the pursuit of happy living proceeds from enlightenment.

In other words, you needn't believe in anything to understand the value of faithfulness - in a relationship or elsewhere.

As for the original topic of this thread, which I've managed to totally sidestep: I believe the answer is entirely situational. There are times when it is better for everyone for secrets to be kept, and there are times for brutal honesty. Guessing at the difference is the challenge.
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Postby Wargo » Sun Sep 02, 2001 4:33 am

I guess not everyone has the ability to see the path of truth.

Think about when you have to make a choice. Whatever you decide, there is one and only one outcome. Whatever helped you make that decision is determined by your personality, your life, your experience, etc. which are all elements or interactions of you and the nature. Therefore, you didn't make that decision. The natural cycle of the universe had it all determined before you even encountered the problem. And that is why that human's perception of individuality, beauty, loyalty, and whatever other terminologies created by human are merely an illusion created by human to fool themselves. It is only when you see through the illusion then you will be able to see the light.

Love is an illusion. Faith is an illusion. This topic and this very post are also illusions.

Yssilk The Enlightened
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Postby Gort » Mon Sep 03, 2001 5:55 pm

And the answer to Life, the Universe and Everything is 42.

Now that all the questions have been answered... we can move on.


Toplack (still mourning Douglas Adams)
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Postby Elisten » Mon Sep 03, 2001 6:09 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Lirathal:
<B> Hahaha so your satisfied not knowing some other guy has his meat in your girlfriend? Ignorance isn't bliss, it's just a way of pretending that she isn't a wench.
IMHO
Lirathal Sphinxianstar</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So, Lirathal -
You have answered your own question, don't you think?

You know what I'm talking about.
Elisten
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Postby Eadgydd » Tue Sep 04, 2001 8:23 am

Well, I can't sleep and this thread seems to have strayed a bit off-topic into esoterica, so...

Everyone here seems to be answering the question based on the cheating being a one-time, "Omigod, what was I thinking" thing. No one has touched the other scenario, where:

a) You intend to continue cheating while keeping your significant other reserved for yourself alone.

b) Your significant other believes the relationship is monogamous and would leave you if (s)he believed it to be otherwise.

In this case it makes sense to not tell about your cheating, and in which case you are scum, and your significant other is obviously not very significant =P

Seriously, though, in the one-time mistake scenario I can't think of a single instance where it would be better not to tell. Sure, it might end the relationship then and there, but keeping a secret like that is like having a gorilla in the middle of the living room...it's kind of hard to talk about other things and feel like you are having a genuine conversation. It's going to erode the honesty of your relationship. Better to have some faith, take some responsiblity for your actions, and hope you can work things out, maybe even make things better than they were before... with time and patience.

Dunno... Mplor said it depends on the circumstances... in what circumstances is it better not to tell? Maybe it's just my married-with-children perspective, but I can't think of any.

--Eadgydd: Wife, mother, self-proclaimed relationship counselor Image

P.S. In response to Shayla, Elseenas and Ashiwi, I think the chivalry question could make up an entire thread by itself Image

[This message has been edited by Eadgydd (edited 09-04-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Eadgydd (edited 09-04-2001).]
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Postby Mplor » Tue Sep 04, 2001 4:42 pm

Having never been married, I can only speak from the perspective of the dating relationship. I've been in the situation once, and I felt then like honesty was the best policy. She felt awful for the obvious reasons, and I felt awful mostly because she was hurt.

Looking back on it with the perspective of a few years now, I've decided that my reasons for telling her were selfish. I felt guilt which I wanted to be rid of, and confession is the time-honored christian method of seeking absolution. It wasn't some sense of altruism in me, or any obligation inherent in the relationship. I had acted selfishly in cheating, and compounded the self-serving nature of the burden by dumping it on her.

If I could go back and do it again, I wouldn't have told her. I'd have lived with it til I could forgive myself. If I couldn't, then, as Eadgydd says, the 10,000lb gorilla would have become obvious to both of us as I grew withdrawn and we stopped sincerely talking. Maybe, however, my guilty feelings would have faded - as guilt tends to do over time - and I would have learned my lesson, without her ever being hurt by it. In either case, I bear the brunt of the weight of my mistake, which is the basic reason I think it's better not to tell. The only thing she loses is the chance to forgive me, but I'm willing to be selfish in a different way than I was then and I'd have made that decision for her myself.
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Postby Ashiwi » Tue Sep 04, 2001 5:40 pm

Mplor
I'm only guessing here, but it seems like you cared very deeply for her, and seeing her in such pain probably hurt you, too. You would want to keep her from that pain, but can you imagine how much it would have hurt her to find out from somebody else? You can always take the chance that she would never find out, but life has this funny way of exposing our darkest secrets in ways we could never have dreamed of.

Eadgydd referred to it as a gorilla very aptly. It can sit, quite docile, in the heart of your home, but at the most inopportune time it can break out and completely destroy everything around it. A loss of faith and trust is the kind of damage that can wound even the best of relationships. If you tell the truth you stand a higher chance of being able to salvage what you can, she can at least see that you cared enough to make the attempt. If you don't tell and she finds out, then she knows you intentionally tried to cover it up and hide it from her, essentially cutting part of yourself off to her.

If she has faith in you, she will forgive you, if you have faith in her you will be honest. If that kind of faith doesn't exist between the two of you in the first place...

Having an affair is not necessarily the end of a relationship when the relationship is a sound one. It's a mistake, and hopefully a mistake that one doesn't wish to repeat. Laying a foundation of lies on which to build the rest of your relationship, that's the beginning of the end. Even so-called "lies of omission."

Which hurts more, finding out that the man you love made a mistake last week, or finding out that you've been living a lie for the last year or two? Do you think it would hurt her less to find out later?

Marriage and dating aren't the same worlds, no. If you two had come close enough to take that step, and then she found out, it would have been that much worse.

No matter what happened afterward, you did right by telling her the truth. You gave her the option to forgive and move on with you, or consider the potential for reoccurrence and move on without you. You accepted the responsibility for your actions, and that's to be respected.

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