S3 weapons

[Zuurn Shatter Skull]

Not sure if this belongs in this forum but here goes. I have heard stuff about taking away names from some weapons 'n stuff (ie: Mistweaver, Windsong etc.) Just wondering if this is actually going to take place or what, I couldnt find the final reasoning on it, it might not be final yet but I wana know

-Zuurn Curious Trollie

[Saitcho]

soj2 didnt have names for the weapons either. so i dont see why they'd change it back.

saitcho

[Zuurn Shatter Skull]

*ponder* just picked this up off of another post and forgot where the thread was, either the person was misinformed or they were talking about S2. Not sure which one is correct but oh well.

-Z

[Saitcho]

personally i like it better when they arent named. having 5 "glittering elven scimitars named 'windsong'" in the game seems silly.

just my opinion though

saitcho

[Tilandal]

I think the setup is going to be the first item dropped or quested for will be named. The rest after that will not be named. Sorta an ego item thing. (lets not get into a huge disscution about ego items here it was so long on e-groups)

[Ruhr]

If you look at Cyric's thread, he discusses it.

"...items like Rockcrusher, Twilight, and Windsong can still be gotten in all their glory minus one thing...their names. I know it's an area of active debate, but I'm not a fan of unique artifacts, named or statted, including 'first one gotten'. There will be ways of getting items strung that will be elucidated later." -- Cyric

[Waelos]

This debate almost always has 2 sides: Naming items is usually supported by those who can and might get one, and shot down by those who can't/never will get one. It'd be nice to hear an argument from the middle of the road here, if that is possible.

I understand that having 12 items with the same name is dumb, but what is wrong with one of them having a name to reward the person who worked out the quest first? The argument that 'but not everyone has a chance' is lame and untrue...everyone does have a chance. Please don't try and tell me that Gomez, the 2 years from now future player, is going to be really cheated because he started late and that those of us who are playing now shouldn't have the chance for a named item because he might play sometime in the future. What about _all_ of the other advantages that we will enjoy in 2 years time that he won't have 'fair' access to? case in point: Was it 'fair' for all the invokers who had to get xp after thier tables were made harder? Um....? What about those +3 +3 darksteel longswords that some people had, and all the Gomezes who started later who didn't? WHERE IS THE FAIRNESS THERE?! Bwaah. As long as the mud is growing, there will always be something for Gomez to accomplish that is unique to him, should he invest the time and have the skills.

To further debunk this craptastic 'fairness' argument, simpley make an analogy to your job. Should you get the same paycheck that Humberto who works 40 hours of overtime? Um...no. Sure you're nice, do your job, and whatever but you don't _deserve_ his pay just because you work at the same place. What if Humberto is also a better worker? Should you get the same pay rate, no matter how badly you mangle peoples fingers in the machinery? No. I don't think the mud works well with Socialist paradigm. (it doesnt work IRL either!)

Cyric, I ask you directly. . . why do you have negative feelings for named items?

All this is said by a Waelos who is going to most likely be a pale shadow of the player he once was (due to time constraints and simply being _burnt_ and crushed by the effort and time it took last wipe only to see it washed away). So you can probably put me in the can't get/won't get category.

hell, if we're all about washing away uniques, why don't we just eliminate player names:

by what noun and adjective string do you wish to be known? a humanoid with pointed ears stands here looking rangerly wielding a glittering elven ho humitar.

snicker! don't you love that! hah! Anyway, Enjoy yer pizza.

Waelost

[Zuurn Shatter Skull]

I never had a named item, I havent played Sojourn for very long in comparison to some. I got level 39 at the last wipe, never had anything really worthwhile EQ-wise but I still love to see people walking around with cool stuff like that, it just enhances gameplay in my POV it is one of the more badass things to get a named item.

-Z 2c

[Sarvis]

Heh... I've never had the chance, and probably never will have the chance to get a cool spanky named item. But I still think they should be around... I drool all over Waelos's eq anyway, so I might as well drool on a Windsong rather than a glittering elven scimitar.

And when new Zones and such go in maybe I will get a chance for a cool named item...

Sarvis, wielding a darksteel longsword at level 35

[Zuurn Shatter Skull]

Oh, neither did I Sarvis, but this time around I'm sure gonna get closer than last time, heh. Mud shut down just when I got to the lvl that I could actually do something in zones besides sit there and look dumb, heh.

-Z

[cherzra]

Waelos ruled, I remember him wearing the strangest shit all the time, stuff I had never seen before. I bet you knew all the quests and then some! How about posting a cap here of your different sets, if you have em?

[Artmar]

Well, for me the idea of named first items seems quite good (as far as it will only affect some really cool eq - no named bronze scepters, plz ). If someone have a time and determination to play several hours/day, and play well, then (s)he should be rewarded (and this is a pretty harmless kind of reward, after all)

PS: I don't expect myself to get one of these named stuff (i certainly never did - 25th on sojourn2, 39th at previous pwipe, 24th at the pwipe before that, and best weapon i ever got was 2h mith hammer - auction bought, of course)

Artmar Whiteraven, barbie shaman, who never has enough time to play (and when he does, pwipe occures)

[Galok Icewolf]

I don't know if this is a good analogy. Probably not. Technically a "Stratavarius" (My spelling is horrible) Chello, violin maker. There are more then one instrument reffered to by his name. Named item? more then one? I don't know if this can be related or not. ROFL.

[Waelos]

Sure, I'll list some of the more exotic things I came across, if the moderators of this list allow the posting of stats? I can list item names alone, but I know that isn't nearly as exciting. Admins? Moderators? =) Do I have permission to post some of the thangs I had laying around? *flutter*

Lost

[Guest]

Sure, go ahead and post the items, just please don't post the stats or where you found them.

[Zuurn Shatter Skull]

I would love to see some listed items in Sojourn, I really didnt get most of thoes great items that were in the game last time around, mebbie this time......


-Z

[cherzra]

Nods Waelos, just caps of what you were wearing would be cool, no need for stats... it looked like you had like 2 or 3 sets of different eq for different situations... and you were always the only one who had those particular items! Post em

[Jegzed]

Its fun to see what people considered was their fave set

/Jegzed who misses his porcelain doll mask!

[Brugg]

omg stop the presses Brugg just had an idea... wait nope its gone... wait! its back agian. what if weapon names had kinda the same basis that last names and guilds do. What if to change your high level weapon to a certian name, you would have to write an rp story behind the naming of the weapon and how you came into possession of it? just an idea

[Guest]

This is just my personal take on the subject of weapons getting restrung status, for what its worth. I think that the area's staff already has put a lot of thought and work into naming the weapons they have created, and especially keeping them in line with the FR enviroment.

Its my opinion that the areas folks would rather not have thier work be diluted and changed by a great number of restrings.

There are lots of ways to set yourself apart. Waelos is a good example. He worked pretty hard to discover those wonderful items that several of you have pointed out. Seems to me most folks could have discovered them and claimed that distinction. So there are ways to set yourself apart, chiefly because many items are not yet discovered. Be the first to find them. Bask in that glory it will last longer than you think.

Restrings might be possible, but it should be a difficult proposition. Nothing repeatable like a hard coded quests or RP stories.

When S3 goes into Beta I'm hoping some of you might pick up on my challenge. Exceptional things are possible in the future, but you are going to have to follow a convulted path, overcome hardships, follow through and actually play the heroes or villians you think yourself to be.

Brandobaris

[Lyt]

With all of my dislike of artifacts and unique items, I have no problem with named items, as long as the exact same item (but without the name) can be gotten by anyone who puts in the time and effort.

How about items which have a random chance of a name, or improved stats. I don't know how to make it work, but just do the same things that is done with things like Invasion and other rare loads. 99% of the time, the item (which must alerady be owned by the player) will come up (after a crash) with its normal stats, but that 1% chance at reboot to come up with a name, and maybe with that name comes a slight increase in the items stats. But once the person rents, or the mud crashes etc. the item reverts back to its "normal" mode. Shrug. Don't even know if this is possible to do.

Example:
Lets say that amethyst rings are one of the items which is flagged with a 1% chance of being better at boot. Lyt has an amethyst ring with normal stats and is zoning. Suddenly one of the immorts has to reboot. When the mud comes back up, Lyt suddenly finds that he no longer has an amethyst ring on, but has the "Ring of the Effretti Sultan" or something like that on. He also find out that he has 10 more hp than he did when the mud went down.

But then later that night the mud crashes, and when it comes back up, his ring is the plain old amethyst ring again. Make sense?

Just thought I would chime in on this.

Lyt

[Selias]

You all have some good points here, but I am in favor of the 1st person to get the item should have it named, or at least something along those lines.

Also, why exactly do people not like artifacts? Yes, they can be overpowered, but if the right situation is set up, then maybe someone should deserve the artifact as long as its stats are reasonably close to an item that already exists in the game and is about the same difficulty to get. Maybe I'm just used to the Duris thing where artifacts changed hands from time to time. I remember when I first started mudding that there were artifacts in the game, but then they vanished. Could someone tell me why that happened? I never found out.

Silly Ass

[Saitcho]

rent
eq
rent
eq
rent
eq
rent
eq

woohoo! i got a *twink*ling elven scimitar instead of a glittering elven scimitar!

hehe i know that wasnt what you intended in your post lyt, but i think that its kind of unrealistic. yeah yeah, realism isnt exactly present in a fantasy mud, but the random rare eq appearing in your inventory seems a bit far-fetched.

saitcho

[Gormal]

I remember at the very begnnning of the wipe I made mention to waelos of the golden eyes of the dwarven kings and how insane the stats were....3 days or so later waelos had a pair.

waelos is the master and no one can argue it!

[agreiver]

I liked the artifacts in Soj2. There were a fair amount, but all were different and only a minority of people had them. I liked the system.

Remember once when when there was a contest where you could rename all your eq to whatever you wanted? I remember Zothmo won it. I dont remember exactly what the contest was... oh yeah it was the best description contest!

Anyway the idea I had is that maybe when you reach level 50, you could customize one piece of your eq.

Even if you traded it away or gave it as a gift.. there would still be a limited amount of these items in the game. The stats wouldn't be upgraded, but would add some variety and spice to someones equipment. It wouldnt get out of control because there would only be as many pieces as there were level 50 characters.

Aggie

[Gormal]

I remember when Thanuk won the desc contest about 4-5 years ago and got the restrung flambarge...a huge clamore named 'Heatweave' ahhh how I envied him!

[Ruhr]

I agree with waleos. It was a big let down to me when they changed weapons names (e.g Windsong to glittering, Twilight to longsword of destruction).

I think it took something out of the game. So what if there's more than one Twilight or Windsong, the unique name made the weapon that much more enjoyable.

As far as restrung items, I think there's really no point unless it is something you know you won't trade up. In the case of Thanuk, yah great name and all, but it's a flamberge, which isn't even magic, as I recall.

I remember my Rockcrusher getting renamed, and it was a big let down for me. Rockcrusher seems like it'll be more useful now (proc bash) what with silence being obsoleted by the removal of the monk class and the intro of invokers.

As far as the other weapons, I have to admit I loved my ebony bladed longswords, what a great proc (blindness) even though the damage/hit dice were crap, it was great fun to wield--and now that warriors aren't expected to do damage and shield punch (do you need a shield to do shield punch btw?) it's a pretty good weapon all around (can't wait to do CC!).

CYRIC: here's a suggestion, once things progress to a certain point in the MUD when X number of Twilights, Rockcrushers, Avengers, Windsongs are out there, let's have a contest where you can restring 1 weapon from each category to its original name. So if you're one of 5 who owns twilight, and you win the description contest, or whatever, it gets renamed to: Twilight the Sword of Destruction (I think the oddest thing about the name change on this is that "a black longsword of destruction" begins with a lowercase letter, consequently it appears not only grammatically incorrect, but much less formidable (satire: a black toothpick of destruction!).

Regarding Waleos' point about people complaining about items, this in my experience was mostly a spell caster phenomenon--a lot of whom had secondary warrior characters they rarely played. They felt that they should be allowed to bid on warrior items along with the warriors in the party (1st round), and when a group leader stood up to them, they'd get bitter. Also take into account the lesser quantity of spanky caster eq in the game and then you begin to see the problem.

The only solution here is the introduction of more caster only eq into the game to balance this out a bit--I know that casters are less eq dependant, but everyone needs sv spell/breath and hitpoints--so put in some caster only HP rings, a lot of caster only +hp and -svsp/bre clothing and jewelry. I think this is the only way to keep them from bitching about warrior items.

LYT: regarding your suggestion of items whose stats change, I don't think so. If you've followed past events re: the gods and fixing broken EQ, you'd know that it takes FOREVER to get something fixed, so introducing items that change randomly would greatly increase the probability that they'll break.

Also, from what imm experience I've had, items are assigned unique numbers prefixed with the zone of origin number. Any change in the items nature would have to be in the form of a proc, which is a long coding process.

Perhaps instead of changing the items, we could change caster's attitudes.

Rather than looking (jealously) at the fighter classes' eq, focus on your own class. Hell write a damn zone with some new caster eq.

Hey, I know I'll never get an artifact, but I don't begrudge the people who do. In most cases, they've earned these items b/c of their contributions to the MUD. The same can't be said for their detractors, who generally don't lead zones, don't write zones and are just bitter.

I really don't care if I ever do get an artifact (though I'd love a twilight ), b/c I know I don't deserve one. I don't lead (my sense of direction is for shit), and I don't write zones for sojourn (at least not yet).

As far as uniques, people put a lot of effort into quests. They are there for a reason. They are fun as hell. The two main GC quests even have unique caster gear, in addition to the fumes bracelet. And as far as rare loads like Jot Invasion, half the fun is doing it. Hell I did Jot invasion like 10 times and never got a twilight, but I had a shit load of fun doing it. I remember all the times we raced Mikar's group (LOL). Man that was some serious fun, the competition to get to the palace. But would people do invasion w/o the uniques? Hell no, what's the point. Zones die when nobody wants what's in them (Marshall Glut (sp?)), there has to be a reward. But the reward isn't the point it's getting there that matters. All that loot we've collected over the years is gone, it's deleted, but I still have my memories of the adventures, the long long nights fighting Tiamat, man that's great stuff. Everything else doesn't last. So stop whining people, remember it's only a game.

[This message has been edited by Ruhr (edited 02-15-2001).]

[Dranak]

Gorm, Wasnt Thanuk's flamberge named 'Widowmaker', girdle named 'Discipline', blah blah :P

[agreiver]

Yeah I think Thanuk was able to restring his items several times.. It was Heatwave, then it was Widowmaker.

[Corth]

Ruhr:

Thanuk was like level 35 or something when he won the contest. He did not have any other high level characters so he had to scrap for what equip he had. Furthermore, the flamberge was kickass at the time, since many of the zones we now take for granted hadn't been implemented. In fact, it didn't matter that it was !magic, because there was no such thing as wraith mobs back then. Thus, in conclusion, I don't think its fair to criticize his choices.

Corth

[Ruhr]

Corth:

keep it in your pants bud.

I used Thanuk as a case in point--that restringing should be for unique/high end weapons FOR Sojourn3--not as a criticism of his choice AT that time.

[Corth]

Ruhr:

Most people would wear minor creation sandals if they had fancy ansi and were called "the ancient war boots of jizz the magnificent" or whatever.

I'll keep it in my pants, whatever that means, and you can keep waiting for one of your top notch items to be restrung.

Corth

[Corth]

Point of clarification:

When I said that wraiths didn't exist, I meant that they were just like any other mob in that they could be hit with !magic weapons.

[moritheil]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Waelos:
<B>This debate almost always has 2 sides: Naming items is usually supported by those who can and might get one, and shot down by those who can't/never will get one. It'd be nice to hear an argument from the middle of the road here, if that is possible.

I understand that having 12 items with the same name is dumb, but what is wrong with one of them having a name to reward the person who worked out the quest first? The argument that 'but not everyone has a chance' is lame and untrue...everyone does have a chance.
Waelost</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heh, I prolly won't ever get one, but I think it looks cool and makes the more experienced players stand out, so I'm for it :P

[Turxx]

As your broadsword connects with a sissy goodie, it erupts in a burst of shadows which bath
him in a dark cleansing pain.

Dancing Shadows baby!

[Ensis]

I'm all about unique items too, beit artifact or restrung item. I never had an artifact, I only saw them and occasionally grouped with people that had them. It was plainly obvious why these characters had artifacts. They knew their shit. I don't know how many times i bugged Ilshad about fade, Tagad about his hammer, aerlinn about her earring and whatshisname about frulgheim axe. Artifacts were something to go for after reaching 50th and doing every zone.

Those that put forth the effort to learn every zone and lead every zone were given a reward, I think they had to be pretty avid roleplayers as well.

As far as named items, you're all telling me that having a lot of lost swords of cymrych hugh is silly, having a lot of axees named frostbite swords named twilight is silly. How silly is it compared to killing the same named guy 300 times? Are all mobs going to be restrung next so that their names aren't evident?

Another argument about named items was "how would you know what the name of it is" well it's a fantasy game and in most fantasy worlds there is a certain amount of lore and rumor around.. people whispering about an ancient axe of great power name of frostbite. Just like in lord of the rings, they recognized glammdring and orcrist right off the bat because of their infamy in the goblin world.

Anyways, my 2 cents..

E

[Gort]

I like the suggestion of a level 50 writing a story to restring an item, weapon for warrior types, some other bit for casters... that type of thing.

I have no problem w/ artifacts for those that earned them, still was drooling over Brog's axe in S2. Not in a bad way, just thought one day, I'd like to be able to do what it takes to get an artifact, gave me something else to shoot for. Knowing the people that had them were consumate players, it helped me strive to hone my skills.

I understand the game balance concept, and artifacts as they were could be overpowering, though the only example I remember of that was Ill's one shotting an elite or something like that.

In any case, it would just give those who claim the mud's too easy something else to complain about, and some of them are the ones who could get said artifact anyway.

Personally I'd like to see those people do Jot w/ lame equ on, just to make it more difficult... something like that, rather than the "I've got spanky equ, and done this a hundred times, no-one even died... its too easy"

Sorry, didn't mean to get off topic there.

Toplack

[Grintor]

Brog's axe was toril, not s2.

this is driving me nuts to lets clarify shall we?

There was:
Soj1
Toril
Soj2 (last wipe)
and now, Soj3

got it? thanks!

[Gort]

Sorry G, its all a haze of late night spam to me...


Still cool axe though.

[Rethan]

Thanuks restrum flammy:


Thanuk had one flamberge restrug to heatweave. But he managed to lose it (dropped in water or something). First off he was told that since the weapon was not a unique or arti he wasnt going to get a new one. But somehow gods changed their minds and he was told IF he got a new flammy they would restring it for him and hence the birth of widowmaker

Geeesh why do i still remember these things? heh


- Rethan