How about making things easier for them?
You start in the most horrible zone I can imagine. No offense Cyric, but the newbie zone plain sucks. You don't throw newbies in a zone with 1-way rooms, rooms which don't align, single file rooms and what not else. Every room looks the same and it's incredibly boring and hard. A nice small town with a small quest, a few level 2 casters, and a lvl 3 town chief, some stores etc would have been much nicer. I love the zones here and they are all AWESOME, but the newbie zone is a real downer, I couldn't believe it sucked that hard when I explored it myself. I kept saying to myself 'gezus I can't believe this, how could they make this?'.
Everyone playing now is higher level, and real newbies don't have a clue on what to do or where to get eq. There aren't many other newbies to group with, if you're a goodie maybe but if you're evil - forget it. You're on your own.
What happens to lvl 2 players who don't have any eq or mud knowledge? They go and fight a rabbit or moth and the first thing they see in a few rounds is YIKES!! A rabbit half kills you with its mighty hit!
And newbie casters, let's not even go there. They can't hit a thing and then when they are proud they can actually cast a magic missile after failing it 3x in a row, it does zero damage.
Small animal mobs shouldn't destroy newbies in 1 hit, and they shouldn't heal up in a minute making attempts at killing futile.
I know I had a hard time leveling up from level 1. And I know this mud very damn well. I even had groups to level up, we all did when the mud opened after a wipe. New lowbies have no such luxury, they have NO eq, NO knowledge and NO option to get groups since there are almost no other newbies.
Some suggestions:
1) redo the newbie zone. It's SO frustrating and confusing. If that's not possible, lower the mob levels in sedawi village from 1 to 5 and load newbies there.
2) easier xp tables up to lvl 10
3) mobs < lvl 10 shouldn't heal. At all.
4) how about some bonus xp for grouping < lvl 15 ? Right now everyone's alt just races to 20 solo without grouping newbies, because there is no need to. Newbies are left in the cold.
5) raise low level spell damage, or add a multiplier if the player is < lvl 10 so higher levels don't get this too.
6) lower newbie death xp loss
7) higher level players should HELP lower level people. When I log my goodie and read the WD board, sometimes I see posts by people like Fendoren, who is selling three pages of junk trinkets like bat tooth earrings and small bone rings for the absurd amount of 50 plat each. Christ, give it to some poor newbie, don't be an ass.
Newbies should have fun here... the first hour or so is the deciding factor on whether they will play here or not. If it's hard, boring and confusing, they will just leave.
And they won't come back.
The more players we get, the better. If we get no new players, the mud will die. It may take a year or even two, but it will die. Nobody wants that. So fer christ's sake, loosen up a bit, let them have it a little easier.
I think Lurgo said it best in a chat I had with him about this today:
Lurgo group-says 'if I were a newbie, I'd never play this mud'
my opinion.
newbies
I agree to a large extent-- having gotten out of the Newborn Newbie stage and into the Kinda Knows What's Going On Newbie stage only within the past month or so, I still have it _very_ fresh on my memory how difficult the newbie zone is. I left quite a few corpses there to insane barbarians. I was lucky to have a friend who was also extremely low-level to group with, but I imagine most newbies don't have that opportunity. Perhaps if in the newbie zone "walkthrough" area there was an indication of how important grouping is on the mud, then the two or three newbies on at any given point would all hook up to kill stags and such. When I first got on, I thought grouping was something neat, but I had no clue how vital it was.
I don't know about evils, but as for goodies, at least in my experiences, there's been no shortage of highbies and mid-levelers who have given me stuff (never too spanky, but always good enough that it made me feel ten times as powerful as I was before) or gone out of their way to CR me in places I couldn't do it myself. A couple people even grabbed me and pleveled me for a few levels, though I've tried to solo or peer-group my way upwards as much as possible. If I had been on any other mud I've ever seen, I would have been ignored as a waste of time. Props to everyone who "wasted thier time" on this little invoker; it will always be appreciated and remembered.
One other thing that you forgot, Cherzra-- nobody bothers to tell newbies that their eq will disappear if they drop it.
Boy, did that ruin my warrior's day...
-Nida
Addition: Also, perhaps you could make the "recall" command actually work in most rooms? As it is, I had a very hard time trying to find places that I could recall from when I had to log or when I'd aggroed something too nasty.
[This message has been edited by Nida (edited 12-02-2001).]
I don't know about evils, but as for goodies, at least in my experiences, there's been no shortage of highbies and mid-levelers who have given me stuff (never too spanky, but always good enough that it made me feel ten times as powerful as I was before) or gone out of their way to CR me in places I couldn't do it myself. A couple people even grabbed me and pleveled me for a few levels, though I've tried to solo or peer-group my way upwards as much as possible. If I had been on any other mud I've ever seen, I would have been ignored as a waste of time. Props to everyone who "wasted thier time" on this little invoker; it will always be appreciated and remembered.
One other thing that you forgot, Cherzra-- nobody bothers to tell newbies that their eq will disappear if they drop it.
Boy, did that ruin my warrior's day...-Nida
Addition: Also, perhaps you could make the "recall" command actually work in most rooms? As it is, I had a very hard time trying to find places that I could recall from when I had to log or when I'd aggroed something too nasty.
[This message has been edited by Nida (edited 12-02-2001).]
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kiryan
- Sojourner
- Posts: 7275
- Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
- Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
- Contact:
agree with cherzra. its too hard for newbies. Go find a real newbie and time how long it takes them to level to 2. If you want a real shock, make them play a enchanter.
Also, very good point about the zone layout (at least on the evil side). Its difficult to map and navigate and boring. You should have made it so that rooms dont overlap. There arent any shops in there, no quests, nothing cept a bunch of pretty much random mobs.
You know what you ought to do, load neat eq in there that poofs when you leave the zone / make level 3 or something. In particular, potions that stone or haste or heal would be cool. The lost sword of cymurgh hugh would be super fun. Perhaps a well of unholy water where they could fill up their small containers. Make all the eq no rent so it couldnt be abused (perhaps the potions are still not a good idea). Put some shops in that would allow them to buy eq for the measly coppers they earn. They may hate life after they get to level 3, but you got to hook them in the first hour for sure, prolly the first 5 minutes.
Also, very good point about the zone layout (at least on the evil side). Its difficult to map and navigate and boring. You should have made it so that rooms dont overlap. There arent any shops in there, no quests, nothing cept a bunch of pretty much random mobs.
You know what you ought to do, load neat eq in there that poofs when you leave the zone / make level 3 or something. In particular, potions that stone or haste or heal would be cool. The lost sword of cymurgh hugh would be super fun. Perhaps a well of unholy water where they could fill up their small containers. Make all the eq no rent so it couldnt be abused (perhaps the potions are still not a good idea). Put some shops in that would allow them to buy eq for the measly coppers they earn. They may hate life after they get to level 3, but you got to hook them in the first hour for sure, prolly the first 5 minutes.
*bink* .. the sound of Cherzra hittin the nail on the head. 
Different newbie eq in the newbie zone would go far I think... doesn't have to be spiffy, or ansified to compete with high-level zone X, and hordes of it shouldn't be on every mob. It should give the newbie the same feeling we get when we find a new piece of cool-looking gear. .. Woot!
Making them "feel" powerful will help them stick around... if you log in and get your ass beaten down by some rabbit, you think "bah, I'm getting nowhere", and leave. But if you log in and within a few minutes start puttin the smackdown on some kobold servants or human trainees and get a piece of eq to show for it at the end, I guarantee you at least an hour's interest.
Oh, and quests. Where do we learn about these things?! When I first started it wasn't til I was level 40 I realized you could ask a mob hello and get preliminary info. Yeesh. I mean, once a newbie realizes a mob isn't a real player, why would they bother interacting with them at all? :P
Different newbie eq in the newbie zone would go far I think... doesn't have to be spiffy, or ansified to compete with high-level zone X, and hordes of it shouldn't be on every mob. It should give the newbie the same feeling we get when we find a new piece of cool-looking gear. .. Woot!
Making them "feel" powerful will help them stick around... if you log in and get your ass beaten down by some rabbit, you think "bah, I'm getting nowhere", and leave. But if you log in and within a few minutes start puttin the smackdown on some kobold servants or human trainees and get a piece of eq to show for it at the end, I guarantee you at least an hour's interest.
Oh, and quests. Where do we learn about these things?! When I first started it wasn't til I was level 40 I realized you could ask a mob hello and get preliminary info. Yeesh. I mean, once a newbie realizes a mob isn't a real player, why would they bother interacting with them at all? :P
On the mud today, Miax was talking about attracting newbies. Some folks seemed to agree with Chez, that the newbie zone was too hard and not helpful enough. Others reported that some new folks found it quite helpful. Personally, I can't imagine being a mage in the zone (I found it tedious enough as a bard, with more hps and hitting skills), so I guess I'd go with "make it easier".
I have two suggestions for attracting newbies, one related to Chez's and one completely unrelated.
(1) Stick in another question before the roller: "Is this is the first time you've played Sojourn mud? y/n" Or somthing like that. If no, then on to the regular roller. If yes, then "This is an elaborate and complicated mud. We recommend using a special character first, just to start learning the mud. This character is unusually strong, fast, and clever, but can't go beyond level 11 (of 50) and will be automatically deleted after 15 days. Do you want to use this special character? y/n" If yes, give 'em a human ranger, starting in Waterdeep, with perfect stats. Or a new warrior/cleric hybrid, with all the advantages of both. Plus maybe an extra 10 or 15 hps to start. That way they can learn to hit, they can learn to cast, they can survive solo, they can explore a bit, they can meet folks, they can pick up some non-newbie equip to transfer to a real char, and so on. The time and level restrictions should keep 'em from unbalancing the mud too much.
So they have a choice, at the start. And if some newbie comes on, rolls a regular char, and finds it too hard, they can re-roll this special starting char, get some practice, get some advice about rolling, and then try a real char again.
(2) I would like to see all of the old Web pages come back on-line, for various reasons (I'm going to stick a post in Stories about this, too.) In terms of attracting and keeping newbies...
(a)This mud is old, with a long, rich, and glorious history. Folks new to the mud pick that idea up, over time, but if two or three of the major incarnations of the Web pages could go up, they could get an idea of all the stuff that's gone on. Which I think would make the mud more attractive to them.
(b) There's lots of useful information in those pages about the mud, the commands, how to play, etc. Even if some of it is outdated or never got implemented, a newbie could get a lot better idea of how things worked. Just stick a warning in, noting that the info _may_ be out of date.
I have two suggestions for attracting newbies, one related to Chez's and one completely unrelated.
(1) Stick in another question before the roller: "Is this is the first time you've played Sojourn mud? y/n" Or somthing like that. If no, then on to the regular roller. If yes, then "This is an elaborate and complicated mud. We recommend using a special character first, just to start learning the mud. This character is unusually strong, fast, and clever, but can't go beyond level 11 (of 50) and will be automatically deleted after 15 days. Do you want to use this special character? y/n" If yes, give 'em a human ranger, starting in Waterdeep, with perfect stats. Or a new warrior/cleric hybrid, with all the advantages of both. Plus maybe an extra 10 or 15 hps to start. That way they can learn to hit, they can learn to cast, they can survive solo, they can explore a bit, they can meet folks, they can pick up some non-newbie equip to transfer to a real char, and so on. The time and level restrictions should keep 'em from unbalancing the mud too much.
So they have a choice, at the start. And if some newbie comes on, rolls a regular char, and finds it too hard, they can re-roll this special starting char, get some practice, get some advice about rolling, and then try a real char again.
(2) I would like to see all of the old Web pages come back on-line, for various reasons (I'm going to stick a post in Stories about this, too.) In terms of attracting and keeping newbies...
(a)This mud is old, with a long, rich, and glorious history. Folks new to the mud pick that idea up, over time, but if two or three of the major incarnations of the Web pages could go up, they could get an idea of all the stuff that's gone on. Which I think would make the mud more attractive to them.
(b) There's lots of useful information in those pages about the mud, the commands, how to play, etc. Even if some of it is outdated or never got implemented, a newbie could get a lot better idea of how things worked. Just stick a warning in, noting that the info _may_ be out of date.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Yayaril:
<B>The difficulty of Sojourn is what drew me in. I had previously played all manner of other muds and they were just too easy!
Yayaril</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The difficulty of Sojourn is what kept me here, not the difficulty in getting the first few levels under my belt.
I agree with the big green slimy troll. Newbie area a little too hard. Let's make it easy.
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·Kuurg·
<B>The difficulty of Sojourn is what drew me in. I had previously played all manner of other muds and they were just too easy!
Yayaril</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The difficulty of Sojourn is what kept me here, not the difficulty in getting the first few levels under my belt.
I agree with the big green slimy troll. Newbie area a little too hard. Let's make it easy.
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·Kuurg·
Cherzra is right on the money here. Some changes need to be made to the benefit of the newbies. I have seen a couple of different systems that work wonderfully for newbies. One includes a message to all in the newbie help group channel (NHG) that says 'razabble may need assistance' when entering the game for the first time. One of the first signs a newbie sees instructs them to ask in the (NHG) for a basic bag with food and water, which is brought to them by a newbie guide (Experienced players would not have a need for this.) This immediately gets the newbie human contact. Newbies could be born with only a newbie weapon. In the newbie training area, let them kill somewhat easy mobs for their starting eq. Now they are getting basic crappy eq right off the bat, thinking 'Wow this is cool!'
It is a tough balance of easy vs too easy on Sojourn3 because this mud is harder than most other muds. The difficulty of this game makes it more addictive. Lets give the newbie a chance to be drawn into our addiction
Razabble...
P.S. If Cherzra or any other of the (NHG) would like to see a mud with this type of system (Even though this mud is entirely different than Sojourn3), feel free to message me.
[This message has been edited by Razabble (edited 12-02-2001).]
It is a tough balance of easy vs too easy on Sojourn3 because this mud is harder than most other muds. The difficulty of this game makes it more addictive. Lets give the newbie a chance to be drawn into our addiction
Razabble...
P.S. If Cherzra or any other of the (NHG) would like to see a mud with this type of system (Even though this mud is entirely different than Sojourn3), feel free to message me.
[This message has been edited by Razabble (edited 12-02-2001).]
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Grungar
- Sojourner
- Posts: 967
- Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2001 6:01 am
- Location: Somewhere on the east coast, usually.
- Contact:
The weapon looks cool, but is only marginally better than the starting weapons you get.
This is the first mud I ever played. It was hard, yeah. I had a couple of friends to show me around a little bit. Fortunately for me, that was during the days where there were 200+ people logged on every night and I could always find a group, even as a lowbie conjurer or shaman. Unfortunately, we don't have 200 people from which to choose a group.
The only time I really had trouble in the newbie zone was as a squid. I played a duergar conjurer and got four levels fine in there. Same thing for Grungar. He got four levels with very little trouble there. Unfortunately he levelled off the kobold king before he could get the weapon. It is a bit confusing and disorienting. Bit too mazelike, but if you map it, it's not that big of a deal.
The special test character idea that Gurns had was interesting.
- Grungar "Richard Dawson is my hero" Forgefire
This is the first mud I ever played. It was hard, yeah. I had a couple of friends to show me around a little bit. Fortunately for me, that was during the days where there were 200+ people logged on every night and I could always find a group, even as a lowbie conjurer or shaman. Unfortunately, we don't have 200 people from which to choose a group.
The only time I really had trouble in the newbie zone was as a squid. I played a duergar conjurer and got four levels fine in there. Same thing for Grungar. He got four levels with very little trouble there. Unfortunately he levelled off the kobold king before he could get the weapon. It is a bit confusing and disorienting. Bit too mazelike, but if you map it, it's not that big of a deal.
The special test character idea that Gurns had was interesting.
- Grungar "Richard Dawson is my hero" Forgefire
Maybe I'm weird-- but I stuck with my invoker instead of my warrior because the caster track was easier for me. It fit my personality and play style better from the first day I played.
Although that may be due to invokers' mad damage... perhaps another caster, say, an conjurer, wouldn't be quite as easy to solo.
-Nida "Destroy all before me!" Rocheron
Although that may be due to invokers' mad damage... perhaps another caster, say, an conjurer, wouldn't be quite as easy to solo.
-Nida "Destroy all before me!" Rocheron
The hardest problem I had as a newbie was figuring out where to buy stuff and rent in my hometowns. Maybe newbies should start off with a map of their hometown with the shops, guilds, etc all labeled; or, at least, we could give easy links for where people can find that information. (gah, especially for Leuthilspar: Ivy Road, Ultra-Sparkly Road, Fluffy Bunny Road...who can keep them all straight?! 
).
The other really frustrating thing about being a newbie...which can't really be helped I suppose...are twinks. Now, I don't know a single level 10 char, at least not personally, that hasn't gotten SOMETHING from a higher-level char out of sympathy (pity ?). The problem comes in when people create alts and load them down with some of the most kickass gear in the game. So there I am...PAINFULLY trying to kill the merchants in the WD dock so I can raise my meager bank account...and this level 4 is going around killing navies. Hmm. Talk about a downer.
Nare
).The other really frustrating thing about being a newbie...which can't really be helped I suppose...are twinks. Now, I don't know a single level 10 char, at least not personally, that hasn't gotten SOMETHING from a higher-level char out of sympathy (pity ?
). The problem comes in when people create alts and load them down with some of the most kickass gear in the game. So there I am...PAINFULLY trying to kill the merchants in the WD dock so I can raise my meager bank account...and this level 4 is going around killing navies. Hmm. Talk about a downer. Nare
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Jasix Prowlingwolf
- Sojourner
- Posts: 258
- Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 6:01 am
- Location: Forster Keys, NSW Australia
- Contact:
Yes it is hard for newbies, it might be better if you could fart on a gnoll and get to lvl 10...
You guys know what nebies really want???
It's not to get fast lvls, most newbies would be happy if a lot of you arrigant high levelers would just say hello to them or reply to their simple requests. I not saying you should help them lvl or equip them but at least have the common curtisy to reply to them when your asked a question. I know all to wel that your all super busy and dont have time for all those replies... *rofl* we are ALL busy but I manage to reply to 95% of the telsl sent to me.. Why cant you??? Oh I forgot you don't like to be bothered.... And those lvl 2 guys really not people until they are lvl 46 and you can use their skills to zone...
Most of us didn't keep playing here after lvl 1 cause we got lvled to 10 in an hour, we came back and stayed cause people talked to us... That is what makes this place work, being made welcome!!!
Quickest way to get respect it to simply communicate.
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Jasix Prowlingwolf
Protector of Clan Prowlingwolf
You guys know what nebies really want???
It's not to get fast lvls, most newbies would be happy if a lot of you arrigant high levelers would just say hello to them or reply to their simple requests. I not saying you should help them lvl or equip them but at least have the common curtisy to reply to them when your asked a question. I know all to wel that your all super busy and dont have time for all those replies... *rofl* we are ALL busy but I manage to reply to 95% of the telsl sent to me.. Why cant you??? Oh I forgot you don't like to be bothered.... And those lvl 2 guys really not people until they are lvl 46 and you can use their skills to zone...
Most of us didn't keep playing here after lvl 1 cause we got lvled to 10 in an hour, we came back and stayed cause people talked to us... That is what makes this place work, being made welcome!!!
Quickest way to get respect it to simply communicate.
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Jasix Prowlingwolf
Protector of Clan Prowlingwolf
What i find funny on the low levels is the difference in XP. Some mobiles are awesome XP (carrion in nubi-zone, Urd warrior in the cave to gloomhaven)
Why not make more of those mobiles, and lesser of the crap mobiles that gives louzy xp. (skeleton and most kobolds in nubi. kobold, small and big bugbear on the way to gloomhaven etc.)
Why not make more of those mobiles, and lesser of the crap mobiles that gives louzy xp. (skeleton and most kobolds in nubi. kobold, small and big bugbear on the way to gloomhaven etc.)
I think making the newbie zone a town or village with maybe a newbie quest and a dungeon for them to fight in would be easier (and maybe more familiar). The suggestion to maybe have renting in the zone sounds good too. At least there is a newbie zone for Soj3 (don't remember one being implemented in Soj2). Just my 2 bits.
Turgil Telepelen
Turgil Telepelen
I can see where the newbie zone can be really confusing. There isn't really any town, and the maze-ish layout can be a turn off to any newbie (especially right away when you go out into the maze only being unable to go back the way you came). A change in the layout of the newbie zone is needed. Something more akin to a symetrical town layout with a surrounding wilderness...I'm not talking about anything big for the town, two roads, north/south and east/west. A fountain in the middle, a place to rent, a bank, stuff to familiarize them with stuff they'll have to be using out in the 'real world' but stuff thats incredibly easy to find so they begin to use it right away. I really think the key is for them to find whatever they start in to become familiar fast. I'm not sure if a weaponsmith / armory are really needed if only because they wouldnt be there long enough to probably put it to use.
Having small quests certainly couldn't hurt. I could see someone in the small town missing something and then have a nearby kobold or some town that has whatever your looking for....basic, but hopefully having some mob triggers (such as a commoner saying "Have you asked xxxx about yyy..she seems really distraught.") would get a player to ask the quest mob the appropriate questions.
Mobs have to be made not to heal in the newbie zone...plain and simple. It took an incredible amount of deaths and time to kill a lowly rabbit because as an invoker I sure as hell didnt hit it and the chances of me getting off a magic missile were pretty minimal, that combined with the rabbits healing rate made it frustrating in the least. Which brings me to another thing....is there no way to scribe in the newbie zone? I know I couldnt figure it out...had to get myself killed, pop in my guild hall on EM, scribe, then recall to have spells in the newbie zone. This really can't happen in a newbie zone....I can only imagine how many people were turned away if they couldnt even cast spells (maybe most people are smarter than I am and actually found out how to do it in the newbie zone).
I also think there shouldnt be exp loss in the newbie zone (zone should be 1-5). Maybe even a quick message at the beginning noting that you wont lose any exp while in the newbie zone but once you enter the real world upon death you will lose exp.
*shrug*....I think the key is familiarity and lessen frustration...The argument of "This should be a hard mud" really shouldn't apply to the first 1-5 levels....thats the levels you get someone new hooked. You can still make it difficult and rewarding without making it humiliating (no one should have to spend 30 minutes killing a rabbit that heals more hps than you inflict).
Naleth
Having small quests certainly couldn't hurt. I could see someone in the small town missing something and then have a nearby kobold or some town that has whatever your looking for....basic, but hopefully having some mob triggers (such as a commoner saying "Have you asked xxxx about yyy..she seems really distraught.") would get a player to ask the quest mob the appropriate questions.
Mobs have to be made not to heal in the newbie zone...plain and simple. It took an incredible amount of deaths and time to kill a lowly rabbit because as an invoker I sure as hell didnt hit it and the chances of me getting off a magic missile were pretty minimal, that combined with the rabbits healing rate made it frustrating in the least. Which brings me to another thing....is there no way to scribe in the newbie zone? I know I couldnt figure it out...had to get myself killed, pop in my guild hall on EM, scribe, then recall to have spells in the newbie zone. This really can't happen in a newbie zone....I can only imagine how many people were turned away if they couldnt even cast spells (maybe most people are smarter than I am and actually found out how to do it in the newbie zone).
I also think there shouldnt be exp loss in the newbie zone (zone should be 1-5). Maybe even a quick message at the beginning noting that you wont lose any exp while in the newbie zone but once you enter the real world upon death you will lose exp.
*shrug*....I think the key is familiarity and lessen frustration...The argument of "This should be a hard mud" really shouldn't apply to the first 1-5 levels....thats the levels you get someone new hooked. You can still make it difficult and rewarding without making it humiliating (no one should have to spend 30 minutes killing a rabbit that heals more hps than you inflict).
Naleth
ok, now i only read the first post.
but i totally, wholeheartedly agree with cherzra, never more so than this one post, i two friends play for months thinking there were goofy watching words scroll for hours.
then even when i rolled my first char, a ranger, it was hard, and i already had a zmud file with basic triggers and knew also most of the commands.
cherzra is right, newbie zone blows and even after that there isnt much.
a true newbie knows sht, is too hard for them sometimes.
i mentioned this before, dont kill a newbie, or at least dont make them cr. >10!cr
but i totally, wholeheartedly agree with cherzra, never more so than this one post, i two friends play for months thinking there were goofy watching words scroll for hours.
then even when i rolled my first char, a ranger, it was hard, and i already had a zmud file with basic triggers and knew also most of the commands.
cherzra is right, newbie zone blows and even after that there isnt much.
a true newbie knows sht, is too hard for them sometimes.
i mentioned this before, dont kill a newbie, or at least dont make them cr. >10!cr
Speaking of rolling your first char...
Is there a way to access help files during roll? I cant remember if there is or not. Some things that chezra had put in her newbie guide a few months back could be really usefull to the first time mudder durring roll (I know the first time I ever rolled I had no idea what any of the stats were, how the different races compared to one another, what attributes were important to what classes...etc...).
Is there a way to access help files during roll? I cant remember if there is or not. Some things that chezra had put in her newbie guide a few months back could be really usefull to the first time mudder durring roll (I know the first time I ever rolled I had no idea what any of the stats were, how the different races compared to one another, what attributes were important to what classes...etc...).
I don't count as a true newbie, as I've mudded on a few other places, but I am a newbie to Sojourn 3. From my own perspective, I found the newbie zone to be too limited. Certainly, it was large, but it was news to me that there was an "end" to the zone. The helper rooms are useful to a real newbie, I'd guess, but for the amount of low levels that wandered in there, there just weren't enough mobs in there to provide any sort of decent and relatively time efficient way to level.
Further, I tend to lean more on the side of helping educate newbies, rather than bestowing on them mass gifts of eq that they 1) don't truly need at their level and 2) didn't necessarilly earn. Don't get me wrong, I've had a lot of people give me things, for which I showed a lot of gratitude. And, yes, it's come in handy. But, in a way, the "pride" issue comes into play, by me wanting to have gotten my own eq - for that creates a sense of accomplishment in the neophyte player and has them wanting (and willing to do) more. That keeps a person staying on.
There have been a lot of helpful people on this mud. I don't think that that's a problem, necessarilly. It's far more helpful than many muds that I've been on. However, if a desire to keep newbies on is one that truly desired, I would suggest more... focus to that help. Newbie helpers could provide some opportunity to "learn the ropes" as it were, without simply having eq tossed their way and being told to go to a newbie zone and kill kill kill. People that are truly new to a place need orientation, and some guidance as to the "purpose" of their going to one place or another. Having maps of a hometown wouldn't hurt.
The newbie help channel did provide me with some answers, but again, I think that more focus to those that have a sincere desire to dedicate their time to keeping more true new people on could be applied. Care packages (ok eq, food, a few coins) and a "tour" of places could help, and also serve as good PR for those guilds that want to look in that direction. Some of Cherzra's suggestions make sense (limiting heal rates of newbie mobs, for instance), but others don't, to me and that may simply be a matter of me not properly understanding the dynamics of this place.
Also, the idea to provide more help files for char creation information would have been very helpful for me.
To reiterate my greatest concern, I really think one downfall to people helping newbies is over-eqing them, and underinforming them. From my own perspective, the reason I mud can be condensed into a few reasons, namely the social element (which people will really have to find, in their own way), a sense of accomplishment via levels and getting stuff from zones/quests on their own, and a sense of competition --> not necessarilly unhealthy, but competition nonetheless.
I would commend those who want to help newbies, but caution them against making it TOO easy. You might create the wrong mentality in those that do wind up staying here.
-Blarr
Further, I tend to lean more on the side of helping educate newbies, rather than bestowing on them mass gifts of eq that they 1) don't truly need at their level and 2) didn't necessarilly earn. Don't get me wrong, I've had a lot of people give me things, for which I showed a lot of gratitude. And, yes, it's come in handy. But, in a way, the "pride" issue comes into play, by me wanting to have gotten my own eq - for that creates a sense of accomplishment in the neophyte player and has them wanting (and willing to do) more. That keeps a person staying on.
There have been a lot of helpful people on this mud. I don't think that that's a problem, necessarilly. It's far more helpful than many muds that I've been on. However, if a desire to keep newbies on is one that truly desired, I would suggest more... focus to that help. Newbie helpers could provide some opportunity to "learn the ropes" as it were, without simply having eq tossed their way and being told to go to a newbie zone and kill kill kill. People that are truly new to a place need orientation, and some guidance as to the "purpose" of their going to one place or another. Having maps of a hometown wouldn't hurt.
The newbie help channel did provide me with some answers, but again, I think that more focus to those that have a sincere desire to dedicate their time to keeping more true new people on could be applied. Care packages (ok eq, food, a few coins) and a "tour" of places could help, and also serve as good PR for those guilds that want to look in that direction. Some of Cherzra's suggestions make sense (limiting heal rates of newbie mobs, for instance), but others don't, to me and that may simply be a matter of me not properly understanding the dynamics of this place.
Also, the idea to provide more help files for char creation information would have been very helpful for me.
To reiterate my greatest concern, I really think one downfall to people helping newbies is over-eqing them, and underinforming them. From my own perspective, the reason I mud can be condensed into a few reasons, namely the social element (which people will really have to find, in their own way), a sense of accomplishment via levels and getting stuff from zones/quests on their own, and a sense of competition --> not necessarilly unhealthy, but competition nonetheless.
I would commend those who want to help newbies, but caution them against making it TOO easy. You might create the wrong mentality in those that do wind up staying here.
-Blarr
Yeah, if I see a level one character and dont have anything important to do, I ask him does he need any help and is he new to sojourn? If he is, I try to give some EQ to them, like a pair of extra yeti-hide boots, and show them around. Maybe even help them up a few levels. This way, the newbie gets a feeling of the MUD and often longs in at least one more time.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Blarr:
<B>
Further, I tend to lean more on the side of helping educate newbies, rather than bestowing on them mass gifts of eq that they 1) don't truly need at their level and 2) didn't necessarilly earn. Don't get me wrong, I've had a lot of people give me things, for which I showed a lot of gratitude. And, yes, it's come in handy. But, in a way, the "pride" issue comes into play, by me wanting to have gotten my own eq - for that creates a sense of accomplishment in the neophyte player and has them wanting (and willing to do) more. That keeps a person staying on.
-Blarr</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
rar! YES blarr! Thank you for eloquently and simply stating what I believe to be true.
<B>
Further, I tend to lean more on the side of helping educate newbies, rather than bestowing on them mass gifts of eq that they 1) don't truly need at their level and 2) didn't necessarilly earn. Don't get me wrong, I've had a lot of people give me things, for which I showed a lot of gratitude. And, yes, it's come in handy. But, in a way, the "pride" issue comes into play, by me wanting to have gotten my own eq - for that creates a sense of accomplishment in the neophyte player and has them wanting (and willing to do) more. That keeps a person staying on.
-Blarr</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
rar! YES blarr! Thank you for eloquently and simply stating what I believe to be true.
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