Necromancers.

Archive of the Sojourn3 Ideas Forum.
Gimkas
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Necromancers.

Postby Gimkas » Fri Feb 07, 2003 7:45 pm

I've played a well known necromancer on this mud for about 10 years. of which 8 of those i was a noone.

Although, in the last of those 2 years i was well known as one of the better clerics in the game. So anything i say please take with the upmost respect and know that i mean well, aswell as what i do touch on, i personally believe is for the best when it comes to the balance of the game and the necromancer class. That being said.....

I personally believe the changes to necromancers have in some ways made the class better and in some way worse. I find that the spells and and whatnot given to necromacers as of late were to try to compinsate for the short straw they recieved at the initial change of the class/spells.

The spells the necromancer gets not as opposed to the old necromancer are far better in the damage area. To that i thank the gods for fixing. On the other hand the downgrades to the pets is far worse than anygood that was given to the necromancer. People complain that the necromancer is too powerful, or that the fact that a necromancer becoming a lich is way too powerful for any type of upgrade. I believe if you (as in the person who actually believes that) were to sit down and weigh out what caster classes are too powerful and why., you would see that necromancers are way on the other end of the power graph.

I have leveled other caster classes this past wipe to a respectible level. So i personally believe my above statement to be true, beyond the fact of saying just cause i have seen it to be true. I have played a warrior, alot of warriors. not one warrior can solo any one mob above his level, at higher levels. Yet, this muds deams it worthy for a caster, in all means physically weaker than a warrior, to have the strength to solo many many mobs above its respectible level. This includes the necromancer.

That being said aswell. I believe in the long run a downgrade should be in the works eliminating any one class to solo any mob they way they do now. As for the moment, an upgrade for necromancers in my opinion should be in order, this could be done in many ways.

1. Perhaps an upgrade in the pets, as far as better tanking skills, more damage done by pets.

2. Maybe, better tanking skills for necromancers to make their pets when noone else is around to help, a blind spell to cut down on the ammount of switching of mobs since they are switching 150% more than they used to, and on that point i dont think it should be out of the question for a necromancer to get a blind spell considering everyother class has it.

3.If any upgrade is made to the necromancer making far less annoying to play than it is, to balance it out leave the exp table where it is, or if nothing is done towards an upgrade, lower the exp table.

Now im not saying make it easier to become lich, or make it easier so someone can be a kick ass necromancer and hurt the feelings of the people who struggled like mad men and women to get where they are now with the class. I personally actually dont want to hear from them cause all your whinning will fall on deaf ears cause i been there and i done that long before you and could care less what you have to say. This post is more for me personally aswell as the people who would like to try to play necromancers who just come to this game, just want a change from an exsisting character.

Also im hoping someone will read this and post any ideas they might have as to the betterment of the necromancer class. I would also love to hear from the staff as to their opinions on this subject maybe have a back and forth thing going for some input, output:P.....

Maybe we can work something out.

Gimkas/Argl
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Postby Dalar » Fri Feb 07, 2003 9:05 pm

I believe we've had this conversation b4 on a different thread. Necro tanks are still good enough to xp with unless the mob is wielding magical weapons. Just b/c they switch all the time doesn't mean u can't get your pets tanking again. There are many EASY tricks to playing the necromancer. The exp tables are very easy compared to something like a shaman or rogue. Maedor and I can solo 8-10% of exp every hour which is an awesome rate.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
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Gimkas
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Postby Gimkas » Fri Feb 07, 2003 10:18 pm

im not saying there arent tricks. im not saying i cant do exp with an enchanter. im not saying anything that i didnt put into words in my first post.

what i do know is that i know how to solo with a necromancer. i also know that there have been changes. major changes that dont allow me to solo the way i used to. most likely we will never see the old type of necromancer again, so im suggesting a change. and with you saying that its no harder or there is no difference and that there are tricks and whatnot is not what i was looking for in a matter of a response.

if it is as easy as you say. where are the other necros. where are the other liches. where are the necromancers who start from level one with no eq that they dont get themselves? there are very few if any. so your simplicity reason goes out the window.

necromancer tanks need to be worked on cause that reason you gave that they are fine tanks unless a mob has a magical weapon go out the window when i fight first level monestary guardians and my spectre is hurt in the first few rounds so badly i cant do any damage cause im healing him a liitle faster than the damage which means nothing when i have to mem.

so sorry, but you need to do better than to shoot down how i play a necromancer, A) cause i know how to play it. B) cause what im saying is what i know from playing it for a long long time.

besides im asking for feedback on how to make necromancers a better class for the mud.
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Postby Chandigar2 » Fri Feb 07, 2003 11:10 pm

Heh heh I had a necro in soj1, back when there was only the one 'animate dead' spell and you got random pets.

The biggest thing I miss with the new pets is just how precious the old ones used to be. Now it seems that pets are a lot more disposable, you get a couple, throw them at the mob until the pet or mob is dead, get new ones from the stash of bodies you've been pressing and reanimate and continue. In the old days, once you got a wraith you were set for a long while, stone/globe nukes, grab a vamp for rescues and you were golden.

It seems now I rarely ever have a pet that times out, it always gets killed pretty early whereas I remember soloing for hours with the same 2 or 3 pets (vamp/wraith) until they died of 'natural' causes.

Just a different focus I guess, or maybe just the way I played him :) It seemed like the old necros were more of a pet class since their own spells kinda sucked but were useful, and their wraiths nuked everything with sorc spells with vamps providing some good high hp rescueage after vamping for a bit.

What do you new age necro guys do?
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Postby Yayaril » Sat Feb 08, 2003 9:41 am

8)

Well, you can throw your pets around and make use of them like they were disposeable. However, they'll probably be more of use if you try to keep them alive.

I've done experience for hours on end with the same set of pets, solo or in group. Lynia is right in that there are some tricks you learn over time to make things easier. Yeah, mobs switch a lot, but you can even use that to your advantage if you think about it.

The good old days of just letting your wraiths stone/vamp up on mobs and then letting them loose on your foe is dead. Things have become more complicated and a new strategy is necessary.
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Postby Llaaldara » Thu Feb 20, 2003 10:34 pm

Necro/Lich soloability was slaughtered when switch off of pets code went thru the roof.

I still wish my wraiths could cast globe. I'd much rather have 3 crappy wraiths that die to one or two spells who can all cast spell ups then one spiffy ghost who likes failing globe 60% of the time til I'm 50th level.

I'm not new to necro, but I am new to lich. I've played necro in past wipes, but never made lich. From observation, I'd say in all ways the necro and lich are both weaker at higher levels. The new changers made lowerlevel necros more fun and powerful, but killed the highlevel uberness of them.

How do I solo with lich now?
Vamp spectre up. Cast protect undead and haste on him.
Invis self.
Spectre tanks.
Ghost nukes.
shadow heals spectre. (incase of a caster mob, use ghasts here with shields to bash the mob down.)
I cast heal undead on spectre.
When mob is almost dead, flee all pets and kill steal.
(this normally takes about 5-10 mins to kill a mob)

or I goto smoke with an enchanter or cleric and fry mephits in 1 min.

Wee hah. Soloability is just OUT THERE!

:roll:

-LL
Dalar
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Postby Dalar » Fri Feb 21, 2003 3:13 am

Llaaldara wrote:Necro/Lich soloability was slaughtered when switch off of pets code went thru the roof.

I still wish my wraiths could cast globe. I'd much rather have 3 crappy wraiths that die to one or two spells who can all cast spell ups then one spiffy ghost who likes failing globe 60% of the time til I'm 50th level.

I'm not new to necro, but I am new to lich. I've played necro in past wipes, but never made lich. From observation, I'd say in all ways the necro and lich are both weaker at higher levels. The new changers made lowerlevel necros more fun and powerful, but killed the highlevel uberness of them.

How do I solo with lich now?
Vamp spectre up. Cast protect undead and haste on him.
Invis self.
Spectre tanks.
Ghost nukes.
shadow heals spectre. (incase of a caster mob, use ghasts here with shields to bash the mob down.)
I cast heal undead on spectre.
When mob is almost dead, flee all pets and kill steal.
(this normally takes about 5-10 mins to kill a mob)

or I goto smoke with an enchanter or cleric and fry mephits in 1 min.

Wee hah. Soloability is just OUT THERE!

:roll:

-LL


Change your tactics and you'll be able to solo better.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
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Postby Bipple » Fri Feb 21, 2003 4:31 am

I actually have to agree with Dalar, this exact thread is repeated for almost every class. There are always going to a couple players in every class which excel, learn the class, and can outplay those who can't dedicate the time to learn the class at their level (Past experience means nothing when the class is overhauled). The argument that you can't look at these players when judging a classes ability is entirely wrong, these are exactly the players you have to look at when determining what a class is capable of. Everyone wants to be the best, solo high level mob with ease and be as good as the best players but this isn't something that is done by changing code or a classes unique abilities.
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Postby Mitharx » Fri Feb 28, 2003 10:33 am

I have to agree with Dalar. However, I will say that I think necros should get blind for the simple fact that when you hear someone saying they solo'ed to whatever level, 9-10 times (or more) they were playing a class with blind. Druids, mentalists, shamans, are the best solo'ers and they all have blind. Seems to me that they are very much defined by the skills they are given as a class. And that's not taking away from the people who play them. They are simply using what they've been given. Also, necros seem to (from what I've compared with ppl) have harder xp tables. Less skills, more experience required != fairness. If there is a bigger reward in the end I can understand, are lichs so much better (especially with the changes that have gone in) that they're worth making the class so much more of a pain?
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Postby Colje » Fri Feb 28, 2003 2:28 pm

Mitharx wrote:I have to agree with Dalar. However, I will say that I think necros should get blind for the simple fact that when you hear someone saying they solo'ed to whatever level, 9-10 times (or more) they were playing a class with blind. Druids, mentalists, shamans, are the best solo'ers and they all have blind. Seems to me that they are very much defined by the skills they are given as a class. And that's not taking away from the people who play them. They are simply using what they've been given. Also, necros seem to (from what I've compared with ppl) have harder xp tables. Less skills, more experience required != fairness. If there is a bigger reward in the end I can understand, are lichs so much better (especially with the changes that have gone in) that they're worth making the class so much more of a pain?


Blind's a clerical spell...

When did necro get to be a cleric class?
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Postby Llaaldara » Fri Feb 28, 2003 4:14 pm

Dalar wrote:
Llaaldara wrote:Necro/Lich soloability was slaughtered when switch off of pets code went thru the roof.

I still wish my wraiths could cast globe. I'd much rather have 3 crappy wraiths that die to one or two spells who can all cast spell ups then one spiffy ghost who likes failing globe 60% of the time til I'm 50th level.

I'm not new to necro, but I am new to lich. I've played necro in past wipes, but never made lich. From observation, I'd say in all ways the necro and lich are both weaker at higher levels. The new changers made lowerlevel necros more fun and powerful, but killed the highlevel uberness of them.

How do I solo with lich now?
Vamp spectre up. Cast protect undead and haste on him.
Invis self.
Spectre tanks.
Ghost nukes.
shadow heals spectre. (incase of a caster mob, use ghasts here with shields to bash the mob down.)
I cast heal undead on spectre.
When mob is almost dead, flee all pets and kill steal.
(this normally takes about 5-10 mins to kill a mob)

or I goto smoke with an enchanter or cleric and fry mephits in 1 min.

Wee hah. Soloability is just OUT THERE!

:roll:

-LL


Change your tactics and you'll be able to solo better.


Dalar you missed my whole point. :?

People ALWAYS talking about how powerful the necro/lich is cuz it can solo, yet I repeatedly see more power elsewhere. I'm asking a question. Which is more powerful, a char that can by themselves take 5 mins to kill a mob, or a character who grabs another character and can kill the same mob in 30 seconds? :roll:

Want more comparisons? Here you go. It takes my lich 10-13 spells to kill a smoke mephit (using lich spells not cones of cold) and 2 castings of dragonscales. Takes my invoker 5-7 spells and one scale to do it.

I remember a day when lich's WERE powerful. When they had 3 pets that could globe and stone, and when their lich touch major para'd.

This isn't that day anymore, so stop blah blah blah'n about how uber lich's are. Cuz they aren't! :P

-LL
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Postby Llaaldara » Fri Feb 28, 2003 4:20 pm

PS.

I've never felt that Lichs were in the right to receive all the Lich only spells for simply becoming a lich, with the exception of embalm.

I strongly feel all (except embalm) the lich spells should be quest spells. Doing one quest and getting a bunch of spells, isn't right in my opinion.

I do feel that when a necro lich's certain necro spells should go up in power a percentage. Lich casting certain necro spells > Necro casting certain Necro spells. Lich should get 2 ghosts at 50th, not still only have 1 ghost 2 wraiths.

I have no problem questing for quest spells, as long as they are worth the effort. :roll:

-LL
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Postby Mitharx » Fri Feb 28, 2003 4:53 pm

That's semantics Colje. Power word blind is a form of blinding something through a spell, isn't it? Maybe I've been misinformed. Power word blind is a mage spell
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Postby Maedor » Fri Feb 28, 2003 8:09 pm

Blind is incredibly useful for classes with pets. It is also interesting to note that the best solo classes all have blind. It is possible to solo with a necro/lich despite this disadvantage. I'm not sure they need blind, but people do need to stop saying that liches/necros are the best solo class..cause quite frankly...they aren't:)

Olit

Oh, and I wouldn't trade my necro/lich for anything. It's the most fun class, in my opinion, to play.

On another note-necros get screwed by having feeblemind be 5th circle...it always bounces off globe..gay. Move it to 6th please like every other class.
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Postby Chandigar2 » Fri Feb 28, 2003 8:53 pm

Maedor wrote:On another note-necros get screwed by having feeblemind be 5th circle...it always bounces off globe..gay. Move it to 6th please like every other class.


Actually, I'm 90% sure that whether a spell bounces off of globe (at least the old sorc spells) is based on its level in the sorc repertoire. So if a spell is a 2nd circle sorc spell, it'll still bounce off of globe even if its a 9th circle spell for another class.

Someone want to verify this for me?
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Postby Yayaril » Fri Feb 28, 2003 9:47 pm

8)

Maedor, only damage bounces off globe. Feeblemind is totally unaffected by globe of invulnerability.
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Postby Maedor » Fri Feb 28, 2003 11:01 pm

I've seen it happen numerous times. I'll post it next time.
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Postby Dalar » Sat Mar 01, 2003 12:18 am

Llaaldara wrote:
Dalar wrote:
Llaaldara wrote:Necro/Lich soloability was slaughtered when switch off of pets code went thru the roof.

I still wish my wraiths could cast globe. I'd much rather have 3 crappy wraiths that die to one or two spells who can all cast spell ups then one spiffy ghost who likes failing globe 60% of the time til I'm 50th level.

I'm not new to necro, but I am new to lich. I've played necro in past wipes, but never made lich. From observation, I'd say in all ways the necro and lich are both weaker at higher levels. The new changers made lowerlevel necros more fun and powerful, but killed the highlevel uberness of them.

How do I solo with lich now?
Vamp spectre up. Cast protect undead and haste on him.
Invis self.
Spectre tanks.
Ghost nukes.
shadow heals spectre. (incase of a caster mob, use ghasts here with shields to bash the mob down.)
I cast heal undead on spectre.
When mob is almost dead, flee all pets and kill steal.
(this normally takes about 5-10 mins to kill a mob)

or I goto smoke with an enchanter or cleric and fry mephits in 1 min.

Wee hah. Soloability is just OUT THERE!

:roll:

-LL


Change your tactics and you'll be able to solo better.


Dalar you missed my whole point. :?

People ALWAYS talking about how powerful the necro/lich is cuz it can solo, yet I repeatedly see more power elsewhere. I'm asking a question. Which is more powerful, a char that can by themselves take 5 mins to kill a mob, or a character who grabs another character and can kill the same mob in 30 seconds? :roll:

Want more comparisons? Here you go. It takes my lich 10-13 spells to kill a smoke mephit (using lich spells not cones of cold) and 2 castings of dragonscales. Takes my invoker 5-7 spells and one scale to do it.

I remember a day when lich's WERE powerful. When they had 3 pets that could globe and stone, and when their lich touch major para'd.

This isn't that day anymore, so stop blah blah blah'n about how uber lich's are. Cuz they aren't! :P

-LL


I'm sorry if didn't understand your ranting. You were ranting about how your solo ability sux b/c of switch code. The only thing it did was separate the newbies from the thinkers.

Now you are comparing invoker damage with lich damage. Invoker damage does more damage/time yes but liches can stay alive longer and do constant damage w/ pets and they have more spells. Liches can also do enchantments to reduce mob's deadliness like feeble, ray, wither, slow.

Here is why liches are awesome:
1) Banshee wail makes spells stick like glue
2) Death Pact saves time by saving people from death.
3) Up to 4 people casting feeblemind.
4) Lich touch = damage + higher percentage slow.
5) Ice tomb kills mobs faster.
6) wraiths and ghosts are usually attacked first when mobs enter.
7) in long fights liches just keep going and going if pets are alive. if you're really picky u can just drag mobs behind u and reanimate if you lose pets.

Now if you compare that just because you as a player don't know how to solo and can't deal enough damage to match invokers ( a class that is meant to be the highest damage) then you have serious problems.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Feeblemind

Postby Dizzin » Sat Mar 01, 2003 12:33 am

Heh, Feeblemind goes through globe fine and dandy. You've prolly been seeing feeb bounce off of mind blanked mobs.

That is all.
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Postby Maedor » Sun Mar 02, 2003 12:16 am

The weaver on airship was the mob that i've seen feebs bounce off. I haven't had time to log and test it again. I've seen it 3 or 4 times, and I swear it says it bounces off its globe. Stay tuned;)
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Postby moritheil » Tue Mar 04, 2003 1:44 am

Yayaril wrote:8)

Maedor, only damage bounces off globe. Feeblemind is totally unaffected by globe of invulnerability.


Not entirely true. Some lower level spell effects bounce off (i.e. dustdevil, summon insects).
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Postby Arilin Nydelahar » Tue Mar 04, 2003 2:17 am

Haven't really paid much attention to this thread, but im going to borrow it to post an idea so I don't have to make a new one.

One thing that is slightly annoying, but not major. When you remort to a lich, you can't use your old necro spellbooks anymore, anyway it could be fixed so we can? Saves having to bumrush for a new decent book if you didn't know beforehand like I. :P
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Postby Yayaril » Tue Mar 04, 2003 4:42 am

moritheil wrote:
Yayaril wrote:8)

Maedor, only damage bounces off globe. Feeblemind is totally unaffected by globe of invulnerability.


Not entirely true. Some lower level spell effects bounce off (i.e. dustdevil, summon insects).


Those are special cases that the gods themselves tweaked because people were using them to twink mobs. You can suffocate a mob with a globe and it can still be silenced even if damage is absorbed. Earthquake and vampiric touch are the only two spells I can think of that go right through globe with damage.
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Postby Llaaldara » Tue Mar 04, 2003 3:34 pm

Dalar wrote:
Llaaldara wrote:
Dalar wrote:
Llaaldara wrote:Necro/Lich soloability was slaughtered when switch off of pets code went thru the roof.

I still wish my wraiths could cast globe. I'd much rather have 3 crappy wraiths that die to one or two spells who can all cast spell ups then one spiffy ghost who likes failing globe 60% of the time til I'm 50th level.

I'm not new to necro, but I am new to lich. I've played necro in past wipes, but never made lich. From observation, I'd say in all ways the necro and lich are both weaker at higher levels. The new changers made lowerlevel necros more fun and powerful, but killed the highlevel uberness of them.

How do I solo with lich now?
Vamp spectre up. Cast protect undead and haste on him.
Invis self.
Spectre tanks.
Ghost nukes.
shadow heals spectre. (incase of a caster mob, use ghasts here with shields to bash the mob down.)
I cast heal undead on spectre.
When mob is almost dead, flee all pets and kill steal.
(this normally takes about 5-10 mins to kill a mob)

or I goto smoke with an enchanter or cleric and fry mephits in 1 min.

Wee hah. Soloability is just OUT THERE!

:roll:

-LL


Change your tactics and you'll be able to solo better.


Dalar you missed my whole point. :?

People ALWAYS talking about how powerful the necro/lich is cuz it can solo, yet I repeatedly see more power elsewhere. I'm asking a question. Which is more powerful, a char that can by themselves take 5 mins to kill a mob, or a character who grabs another character and can kill the same mob in 30 seconds? :roll:

Want more comparisons? Here you go. It takes my lich 10-13 spells to kill a smoke mephit (using lich spells not cones of cold) and 2 castings of dragonscales. Takes my invoker 5-7 spells and one scale to do it.

I remember a day when lich's WERE powerful. When they had 3 pets that could globe and stone, and when their lich touch major para'd.

This isn't that day anymore, so stop blah blah blah'n about how uber lich's are. Cuz they aren't! :P

-LL


I'm sorry if didn't understand your ranting. You were ranting about how your solo ability sux b/c of switch code. The only thing it did was separate the newbies from the thinkers.

Now you are comparing invoker damage with lich damage. Invoker damage does more damage/time yes but liches can stay alive longer and do constant damage w/ pets and they have more spells. Liches can also do enchantments to reduce mob's deadliness like feeble, ray, wither, slow.

Here is why liches are awesome:
1) Banshee wail makes spells stick like glue
2) Death Pact saves time by saving people from death.
3) Up to 4 people casting feeblemind.
4) Lich touch = damage + higher percentage slow.
5) Ice tomb kills mobs faster.
6) wraiths and ghosts are usually attacked first when mobs enter.
7) in long fights liches just keep going and going if pets are alive. if you're really picky u can just drag mobs behind u and reanimate if you lose pets.

Now if you compare that just because you as a player don't know how to solo and can't deal enough damage to match invokers ( a class that is meant to be the highest damage) then you have serious problems.


1) What does banshee wail have to do with landing damage spells on exp mobs?
2) Death pact helping soloability? Wtf! What is going to heal me when I'm incap'd? Do you honestly think that when i'm at -50 hps my mobs are going to last long enough while i'm not helping them for me to regenerate back to 0hps and flee out? Gimmie a break :P My mobs can't even heal me. This used to be a trick, just as you were about to die, spam pets to heal you so that death pact WAS useful in solo instances. Well since they can't heal me now, i'm not getting healed in negs. It's only a matter of time before mob kills my pets and switches to splat me. This point is mute.
3) What's feeble mind have to do with rogue and warrior mobs?
4) I know about lich touch. That's one of lich prime damage spells. That's one of the spells I was using.
:roll:
5) Ice tomb kills mobs faster? It's all about rot. Tomb only does more damage when mobs are near death.
6) This is bogus. Maybe in a ZONE your pets get attacked first, but if you are trying to SOLO exp mobs, mobs do not have memory of pets. So NO they never get attacked first unless the mobs are naturally aggro. :roll:
7) Yes, if I had a ton of corpses I could just keep going and going. Most likely I don't tho unless I spend time before hand stacking bodies up. Can we say jinxing yourself for a crash? :P

Btw Dalar, there was no f'n reason to go on personal attacks against me over a simple class debate. :evil: Saying I must have "serious problems" or must be a noob because I don't agree with you.

Yeah, real classy.

-LL
Maedor
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Postby Maedor » Tue Mar 04, 2003 8:06 pm

I think Dalar was pointing out the wonders of being a lich...not necessarily as they pertain to soloing. It's been said many many times that a classes worth cannot be judged by how well it solos;) Although...i can solo quite a lot as a lich...but i can solo more with my 37ele ;)
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Postby Llaaldara » Tue Mar 04, 2003 11:49 pm

Maedor wrote:I think Dalar was pointing out the wonders of being a lich...not necessarily as they pertain to soloing. It's been said many many times that a classes worth cannot be judged by how well it solos;) Although...i can solo quite a lot as a lich...but i can solo more with my 37ele ;)


Exactly my Point. THANK YOU!

Ele's rock. I watched one solo a mob that a even spread group of 6 couldn't touch. :roll:

Ele is honestly up there as one if not the best solo class. Blind and pets and embodiments oh my! Oh yeah, and gate and relo! :shock:

-LL
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Postby Dalar » Wed Mar 05, 2003 6:01 pm

i was talking more about how liches are useful in groups just like invokers. after all invokers can't solo.

also, how in the world can a lvl 37 elementalist solo more than a lvl 50 lich? i beat the crap out of things like heluva and wraith casting mobs that track much better than i do with my lvl 42 elementalist
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
Dalar
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Postby Dalar » Wed Mar 05, 2003 6:04 pm

Llaaldara wrote:
Maedor wrote:I think Dalar was pointing out the wonders of being a lich...not necessarily as they pertain to soloing. It's been said many many times that a classes worth cannot be judged by how well it solos;) Although...i can solo quite a lot as a lich...but i can solo more with my 37ele ;)


Exactly my Point. THANK YOU!

Ele's rock. I watched one solo a mob that a even spread group of 6 couldn't touch. :roll:

Ele is honestly up there as one if not the best solo class. Blind and pets and embodiments oh my! Oh yeah, and gate and relo! :shock:

-LL

and my point is that just b/c liches don't deal as much damage as an invoker doesn't mean they aren't hella good. i'd rather have 1 lich one invoker than 2 invokers in almost every case. by your logic then illithids and druids are useless b/c invokers can taxi people just as well and deal more damage?
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
Yayaril
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Postby Yayaril » Wed Mar 05, 2003 8:39 pm

8)

And necromancers/liches can take certain mobs that elementalists can't solo. Can anybody say 'Trolls'?
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Postby Birile » Wed Mar 05, 2003 8:44 pm

So we've discovered that some classes are better in some circumstances than others. Hooray.
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Postby Llaaldara » Thu Mar 06, 2003 1:26 am

Dalar wrote:
Llaaldara wrote:
Maedor wrote:I think Dalar was pointing out the wonders of being a lich...not necessarily as they pertain to soloing. It's been said many many times that a classes worth cannot be judged by how well it solos;) Although...i can solo quite a lot as a lich...but i can solo more with my 37ele ;)


Exactly my Point. THANK YOU!

Ele's rock. I watched one solo a mob that a even spread group of 6 couldn't touch. :roll:

Ele is honestly up there as one if not the best solo class. Blind and pets and embodiments oh my! Oh yeah, and gate and relo! :shock:

-LL

and my point is that just b/c liches don't deal as much damage as an invoker doesn't mean they aren't hella good. i'd rather have 1 lich one invoker than 2 invokers in almost every case. by your logic then illithids and druids are useless b/c invokers can taxi people just as well and deal more damage?


50 invoker + 50 lich > 50 invoker + 50 invoker
(or in other words)
Inferno + Rot > Inferno + Swarm

No debate there. :shock:


Dalar, my point has always been that lich's are not the super solo badass class so many people like to make them out to be. I never talked about them in reguards to zoning. Lich is a zoning class, not a soloist. Notice i'm NOT saying necromancer. I said LICH. LICH is not a soloist designed class. Necro is solo til he gets high level, and then he becomes group class. You're the one who went into the zoning discusion. I made one simple comparison between what was more powerful a class with a couple pets, or a class that with one other rl player. :roll:

Now here you go putting words in my mouth. I never said anything about taxi classes being useless or implied any such things! Doooo Youuu Understand The Worrrrrrrds That Are Coming Outa Myyyyy Moooouth??? :shock:

I said eventhough I'm a crappy taxi as an invoker, I still do it to help out others when there isn't anyone around who can do it. PERIOD. I didn't imply i'm a great taxi. I didn't say druids aren't. I didn't say illithids are bad. When the whole time I was implying that all other classes were BETTER at being taxi's then an invoker was. :roll:

-LL :roll:
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Postby Dalar » Thu Mar 06, 2003 2:27 am

Necro/Lich soloability was slaughtered when switch off of pets code went thru the roof.


you're wrong

People ALWAYS talking about how powerful the necro/lich is cuz it can solo, yet I repeatedly see more power elsewhere. I'm asking a question. Which is more powerful, a char that can by themselves take 5 mins to kill a mob, or a character who grabs another character and can kill the same mob in 30 seconds?


now you're talking about how other classes are more powerful in GROUPS right? Becuase invokers can't kill that same mob in 30 sec unless they have a crapload of potions.

my quote
Liches can also do enchantments to reduce mob's deadliness like feeble, ray, wither, slow.

and you go and list why i was wrong b/c the spells i listed weren't damage. did you bother reading the paragraph above my list?

basically i understand you're talking about how you are saying liches aren't great b/c they can't deal as much damage as an invoker. BIG WOOP. People say liches own b/c of their support spells and because they have one of the higher damage spell lists in the game. If i need to kill something fast, i will bring 2 invokers. If i need survivial, i'll bring a lich and a necro. And yes inferno + rot > inferno + meteorswarm, but force missiles > lich touch, cloud > rain of blood, and sometimes nothing > abi. I'm done w/ this conversation
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
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Postby Llaaldara » Thu Mar 06, 2003 11:34 pm

I had a long and convincing argument/response all typed out...

Then the same thought came to me now as did last night during Turg's cc eq split. To hell with it. It's not worth the time or effort to argue about.

Woopidty do. :roll:

Just wish I could log out from work like the mud and goto bed, but i'm stuck here. sigh :cry:

-LL

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