wormhole

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wormhole

Postby Gura » Sun Aug 31, 2003 2:33 am

This was suggested for psi's back when tia was in the game cuz Miax noticed how we were basically so slow getting our group back together..just wanted to know if it had been thought about at all.
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Postby Vandic » Sun Aug 31, 2003 2:40 am

I assume wormhole would be something akin to moonwell?

If so I don't see how this would be a bad idea at all.
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Postby Dalar » Sun Aug 31, 2003 3:40 am

can druids get ultrablast plz
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
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Postby Gura » Sun Aug 31, 2003 4:40 am

for a smart guy dalar u say some stupid things sometimes.
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Postby Yayaril » Sun Aug 31, 2003 6:10 am

8)

We don't want more mobs that can ultrablast!
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Postby Ambar » Sun Aug 31, 2003 3:30 pm

i heard a rumor that the wormhole quest will be in Menzo ....
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Postby Dalar » Sun Aug 31, 2003 4:06 pm

can druids get menzo too?
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Gormal » Sun Aug 31, 2003 4:20 pm

Can Dalar get laid?
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Postby Dalar » Sun Aug 31, 2003 6:47 pm

thx kori!
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby icecillam » Sun Aug 31, 2003 7:06 pm

Dalar wrote:can druids get ultrablast plz


Suuure. Right after they lose doom/heal/vit/rock 2 mud/mud 2 rock/treants/shapechange/all the vigs/all offense above 2nd circle/pwt/wor/all cures except for light/summon/prots/and the all important goodberry.
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Postby Llaaldara » Sun Aug 31, 2003 9:16 pm

icecillam wrote:
Dalar wrote:can druids get ultrablast plz


Suuure. Right after they lose doom/heal/vit/rock 2 mud/mud 2 rock/treants/shapechange/all the vigs/all offense above 2nd circle/pwt/wor/all cures except for light/summon/prots/and the all important goodberry.


Ooo! Sign me up!
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Postby Gormal » Sun Aug 31, 2003 9:22 pm

ouch low blow by dalar...he's good at it after long nights on his knees with nuk tho!
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Postby icecillam » Mon Sep 01, 2003 7:46 am

Anyways, back on topic. God comment? Thinking about it? Will cut and paste the well code and reansify? Will implement along with other psi fixes? This is dumb and evils should have to walk everywhere?

Would be nice to provide people with transit without having to lose my spot while wandering around.
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Postby Teyaha » Mon Sep 01, 2003 9:21 am

interesting idea, although i think a better name is in order. wormhole just sounds filthy.
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Postby Rihesesassixiz » Mon Sep 01, 2003 2:09 pm

Go go go Mass Shift.

Type massshift and everyone that has consented you is moved to you. Costs maybe about 200-300 PSP due to that the Psionicist has to reach out and grab many bodies.
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Postby Shevarash » Mon Sep 01, 2003 5:03 pm

Sounds like a good idea to me, though the details need some fleshing out maybe.
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Postby Gormal » Mon Sep 01, 2003 8:29 pm

Give druids a moonwell-ish spell that creates a one-use well...poofs upon someone entering. Give it to them in their 30's or something. Only fair!
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Postby icecillam » Mon Sep 01, 2003 10:17 pm

Gormal wrote:Blah blah... Only fair!

See response to Dalar about ublast.

Hrm, the massshift idea to self might not work too well. I'd hate to send tells to people to unconsent when trying to massshift people.

Massshifting everyone in the room from you to target might work better for the massshift idea, but then it doesn't solve the problem of not being able to wander around exploring without having to leave in order to shift people.

Directly reansifying the moonwell code would probably be simplest. Mebe with 100-200 psp usage and standard lag time. Also prevents summon/shifting people out of combat and other sticky issues like that.
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Postby Rihesesassixiz » Tue Sep 02, 2003 3:39 am

icecillam wrote:
Gormal wrote:Blah blah... Only fair!

See response to Dalar about ublast.

Hrm, the massshift idea to self might not work too well. I'd hate to send tells to people to unconsent when trying to massshift people.

Massshifting everyone in the room from you to target might work better for the massshift idea, but then it doesn't solve the problem of not being able to wander around exploring without having to leave in order to shift people.

Directly reansifying the moonwell code would probably be simplest. Mebe with 100-200 psp usage and standard lag time. Also prevents summon/shifting people out of combat and other sticky issues like that.


Hmm. Well, sometimes sacrifices must be made ^_^.

Perhaps, instead of just moonwell with different text, make it so that mass shift opens up a one way wormhole in each room where people are that have consented you. When they go through that wormhole, they pop out of one in the room you are. That solves the problem of accidently pulling people to you, and solves the problem of having to go to each person. :)
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Postby mynazzaraxxsyn » Tue Sep 02, 2003 3:34 pm

Rihesesassixiz wrote:[
Perhaps, instead of just moonwell with different text, make it so that mass shift opens up a one way wormhole in each room where people are that have consented you.


That may be a lot of wormholes that don't need to be opened. On a normal day of exp'ing I have at any given time 5-10 people consenting me. During a night I zone I can expect to have upto 20 people consenting me. I'm not sure if paging works on consent but I don't think it will be too long before I find out :twisted:

I think a simple re-ansi of moonwell (black & + L and purple & + m) would be awesome. Keep it the same as shift, same plane only.
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Postby Dalar » Tue Sep 02, 2003 5:05 pm

just a quick question for squids. I remember when I was an evil when u had 2+ squids with ultrablast, zones were easier than with 3 invokers. is this still true? i think ublast was only stoppable by mind blank and it was rarely resisted etc. can someone update me on this? if this is true, I don't see how a druid is even close to as good as a squid in a group environment.
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Postby Gura » Tue Sep 02, 2003 5:20 pm

both classes have their own ups and downs u should know this. if u can't tell by grouping with both there's some helpfiles you should read. anyways the fact of the matter is that evils have basically no means of mass transportation like goodies and the only reason I brought this topic up is because if/when tia goes back in evils won't be able to kill her because it takes us too long to regroup.
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Postby Dalar » Tue Sep 02, 2003 5:47 pm

well evils have much better resists, have ultravision (with many ways to get around it), more damage, stronger tanks, squids which destroy areas much faster b/c of ublast etc. we have... mass transportation via moonwell. illusionists, which evils have, can do a ghetto well in a minute or two.
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Postby icecillam » Tue Sep 02, 2003 10:51 pm

--Off Topic Part--
Dalar to answer your questions - We only have one active ublaster right now. And even if we had 2 active ublasters, it still < 2 vokers unless your fighting a dragon until it's shadow fluxed. 3force missiles > 1 ublast when fighting a single target mob or in a room you cant area in.

Straight up damage wise (asuming no shrugs, etc).
inferno> metswarm, metswarm sorta = ublast.
4 slots inferno + 5 slots metswarm > 9 ublasts.
with 2 invokers/psi (assuming vokers arn't stupid and feedback kill each other)
8 infernos + 8 metsworms > 16 ublasts.
with 3 vokers you have feedback issues but!
cloud+met+inferno still slightly has the edge on psi damage.

Oh wait, did I mention, I don't hit everything in the room usually. Seem to have issues hitting more than 5 mobs on average. Which is odd because its a mental blast in all directions. Which means ublast damage is even less than voker damage in massivly filled rooms which seems to be a trend these days. Level 50+ mobs don't seem to have this restriction tho =P
Also, I have to deal with mystical shrug factor. While it doesn't happen all that often thankfully, mobs shrug for either 1/2 or 0 damage. Seems to be linked to a random die which no spells can affect (ie curse, whatnot) and they shouldn't affect it.

Better resists? You don't wear close to -20 sv spell? Ultravision? Ask stabby how long he usually has to wait to see a pcorpse. More damage? Tell people to stop rolling rangers/rogues and roll some vokers/liches. Stronger tanks, check.

With all your posts on timesinks in the game being bad, I would have thought you would see the reasoning behind a well type spell.


--Back on Topic--
I think the mass shift idea has some really good merits, but would be difficult to implement in concept. Like what happens if someone else jumps the one portal, or like myna said extra portals being opened for no reason. Global shift to you would work better to prevent some of the oddities, but some issues with pulling people out of combat and stuff like that would probably cause a coding headache. Dealing with all the consenting would probably also be kinda messy I would think.
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Postby Dalar » Tue Sep 02, 2003 11:18 pm

The way you explained it is very different from what I've experienced. I remember destroying SF final fight with like 4 squids. I also don't remember the blast radius being that small.
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Postby mynazzaraxxsyn » Wed Sep 03, 2003 12:53 am

->Your death field hits nine targets, six were outside of the area.

That was a good hit from meilich tonight. I lost them in scroll back but I had one that was 15 out of area.
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Postby Dalar » Wed Sep 03, 2003 1:15 am

15 out of how many?
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Postby icecillam » Wed Sep 03, 2003 1:17 am

4 psis? K imagine 4 invokers (assuming they dont feedback kill each other). Sheer amount of nukes would negate the mr.

Exact hit average might be off, but its definatly seems lower than invokers average.

And we were fighting about 19 mobs at max.
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Postby mynazzaraxxsyn » Wed Sep 03, 2003 4:41 am

Well if i hit 9 and missed 6 that would be 15. a couple may have died between the two. Was a wee bit of spam at the time. Ice might be able to answer he was there as well.
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Postby Dalar » Wed Sep 03, 2003 6:23 am

I can imagine 4 invokers nuking. Honestly I'd rather have 4 squids on some fights because you're using the strongest spell the whole fight while invokers damage tiers down.
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Postby Xisiqomelir » Wed Sep 03, 2003 9:09 am

Dalar wrote:just a quick question for squids. I remember when I was an evil when u had 2+ squids with ultrablast, zones were easier than with 3 invokers. is this still true?


I'd have to be playing again fulltime to answer, but I don't see any changes mentioned in the news, so I would assume the answer is "Yes". For 3 though, not 2.

Dalar wrote:i think ublast was only stoppable by mind blank and it was rarely resisted etc. can someone update me on this?


Originally they were never shrugged, then "psionic resistance" (vomit) went in and they started being shrugged, but still less than spell shrug.

Dalar wrote:if this is true, I don't see how a druid is even close to as good as a squid in a group environment.


From what I see in logs (Since I don't and will never have a goodie) Druids do less damage. I assume Druid utility/healing is meant to compensate for this.

p.s. Shift is superior to moonwell, and I wouldn't trade for the world. I wouldn't be averse to gratuitously receiving it, yet that would be entirely undeserved on my part. :P
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Postby Gura » Wed Sep 03, 2003 2:12 pm

i disagree there Xisi. i think shift may have its advantages but in the long run moonwell or a skill similar to it would be more beneficial.
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Postby Todrael » Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:08 pm

People say, "Look at all these things you get! And we get... fast transport. Whoopdie-doo." At least that's what I'm getting out of this thread. Perhaps you don't realize that mass/fast transportation is a huge bonus to this game, on par with things like inferno? Just imagine the game without gate, relocate, etc. Why do people love these spells so much, yet they're never mentioned when people say what class abilities they have? Transportation is taken for granted.
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Postby thanuk » Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:14 pm

Todrael wrote: Transportation is taken for granted.


Truer words were never spoken.

If you disagree, I dare you to roll a barbarian, and walk from griffons nest to calimport. Ill see you in 3 hours.
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Postby Dalar » Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:24 pm

thanuk wrote:
Todrael wrote: Transportation is taken for granted.


Truer words were never spoken.

If you disagree, I dare you to roll a barbarian, and walk from griffons nest to calimport. Ill see you in 3 hours.


Lamruil ran a quest where some players actually raced from cp to GN without any +mv/fly items or vigs. I think it took us like 10-20 min to do it?
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Todrael » Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:51 pm

Dalar wrote:Lamruil ran a quest where some players actually raced from cp to GN without any +mv/fly items or vigs. I think it took us like 10-20 min to do it?


And by that, you're trying to prove that quick/easy transportation spells aren't important?
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Postby Dalar » Wed Sep 03, 2003 8:25 pm

thanuk wrote:
Todrael wrote: Transportation is taken for granted.


Truer words were never spoken.

If you disagree, I dare you to roll a barbarian, and walk from griffons nest to calimport. Ill see you in 3 hours.


Like his mind, I was proving that Thanuk is slow.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby thanuk » Wed Sep 03, 2003 8:26 pm

Dalar wrote:
Like his mind, I was proving that Thanuk is slow.


All you proved is that i cant cast vig.
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You tell Mysrel 'u want me to be ur baby daddy?'

Mysrel tells you 'daddy? No, I think you have the terminology wrong'

You tell Mysrel 'comeon now we both know i would be the top'

Mysrel tells you 'can be where ever you want to be, yer still getting ****** like a drunken cheerleader'
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Postby Dalar » Wed Sep 03, 2003 8:53 pm

Dalar wrote:
thanuk wrote:
Todrael wrote: Transportation is taken for granted.


Truer words were never spoken.

If you disagree, I dare you to roll a barbarian, and walk from griffons nest to calimport. Ill see you in 3 hours.


Lamruil ran a quest where some players actually raced from cp to GN without any +mv/fly items or vigs. I think it took us like 10-20 min to do it?
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
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Postby thanuk » Wed Sep 03, 2003 9:13 pm

Dalar wrote:
Dalar wrote:
thanuk wrote:
Todrael wrote: Transportation is taken for granted.


Truer words were never spoken.

If you disagree, I dare you to roll a barbarian, and walk from griffons nest to calimport. Ill see you in 3 hours.


Lamruil ran a quest where some players actually raced from cp to GN without any +mv/fly items or vigs. I think it took us like 10-20 min to do it?


Then i say bullshit! even with speedwalks, youll have to rest for moves at least 3 times, maybe four, plus whatever time you have to wait on the ferries. 20 minutes at very best, no way you made it from GN to cp in 10.
Mysrel tells you 'have my babies'

You tell Mysrel 'u want me to be ur baby daddy?'

Mysrel tells you 'daddy? No, I think you have the terminology wrong'

You tell Mysrel 'comeon now we both know i would be the top'

Mysrel tells you 'can be where ever you want to be, yer still getting ****** like a drunken cheerleader'
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Postby Todrael » Wed Sep 03, 2003 9:19 pm

What about teleport potions?

Seriously though, that really doesn't have anything to do with the point. The point being that transportation spells and abilities are a key factor in class balance, and are very powerful in their own right.
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Postby Dalar » Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:03 pm

thanuk wrote:
Dalar wrote:
Dalar wrote:
thanuk wrote:
Todrael wrote: Transportation is taken for granted.


Truer words were never spoken.

If you disagree, I dare you to roll a barbarian, and walk from griffons nest to calimport. Ill see you in 3 hours.


Lamruil ran a quest where some players actually raced from cp to GN without any +mv/fly items or vigs. I think it took us like 10-20 min to do it?


Then i say bullshit! even with speedwalks, youll have to rest for moves at least 3 times, maybe four, plus whatever time you have to wait on the ferries. 20 minutes at very best, no way you made it from GN to cp in 10.


yea that's why glorishan and fotex lost. they all went through the baulder's gate route while I took the dragon trail. You can regen moves pretty fast if you're the riight age. the only ferry i had to wait for was the mirar ferry. i think the final time was around 15-20 minutes though it's been a while. you probably need around 8 stops.
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Postby Teyaha » Thu Sep 04, 2003 1:59 am

mass transport spells are incredibly important for staging events like zoning, raids, big quests, etc.
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Postby Gura » Thu Sep 04, 2003 3:38 am

ok lets set this back on track. evils would not be able to do tia without a skill like this. we need it even if its a level 50 quest skill for psi's. its a necessity for us.
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Postby Tanji Smanji » Thu Sep 04, 2003 3:58 am

Dalar wrote:
thanuk wrote:
Dalar wrote:
Dalar wrote:
thanuk wrote:
Todrael wrote: Transportation is taken for granted.


Truer words were never spoken.

If you disagree, I dare you to roll a barbarian, and walk from griffons nest to calimport. Ill see you in 3 hours.


Lamruil ran a quest where some players actually raced from cp to GN without any +mv/fly items or vigs. I think it took us like 10-20 min to do it?


Then i say bullshit! even with speedwalks, youll have to rest for moves at least 3 times, maybe four, plus whatever time you have to wait on the ferries. 20 minutes at very best, no way you made it from GN to cp in 10.


yea that's why glorishan and fotex lost. they all went through the baulder's gate route while I took the dragon trail. You can regen moves pretty fast if you're the riight age. the only ferry i had to wait for was the mirar ferry. i think the final time was around 15-20 minutes though it's been a while. you probably need around 8 stops.



I have nothing to contribute. I just wanted to see how long this quote trail can get.
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Postby Dalar » Thu Sep 04, 2003 5:14 am

if u guys get wormhole that totally destroys what's left of the 'balance' between the races.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

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Postby Teyaha » Thu Sep 04, 2003 7:08 am

i dunno. i think having to deal with annoying hometowns like ghore and hyssk are quite balancing compared to evermeet and even gn
Dalar
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Postby Dalar » Thu Sep 04, 2003 2:19 pm

Teyaha wrote:i dunno. i think having to deal with annoying hometowns like ghore and hyssk are quite balancing compared to evermeet and even gn


Tanji you want to take care of this one? I'll try later because this is the funniest thing I've ever heard an evil say. That and "Is this GN?"
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
Gura
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Postby Gura » Thu Sep 04, 2003 5:48 pm

if there was balance already between goods and evils i could understand ur point but there isnt. goodies clearly have an advantage over evils and giving us one skill that we need is not going to help too much to even that out. but keep whining if u want im done with this thread.
Dornax says 'And for the right amount of information ye might get some nookie out of Nokie..'



Nokie wiggles his bottom.

Teba tells you 'let me do my job you volo twinker!'

Bobidibble GCC: 'yeah i admit gura is a better warrior then i am, no shame in it... perhaps someday i shall be as pimp'
Hyldryn
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Postby Hyldryn » Thu Sep 04, 2003 6:08 pm

I wonder whatcha mean by goodies having the advantage. Of course I agree with you, but not in the terms of spells and abilities. Stats, innates, and spellwise evils beat out goods. But pbase wise, goods beat out evils. I'd say goods have the advantage solely because all the advantages you get for being evil is negated by not having people to group with.

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