tanking and casting spells is to easy!

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Ashod
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tanking and casting spells is to easy!

Postby Ashod » Sun Aug 31, 2003 4:33 pm

Ok time to point out something about casters that completely bothers melee classes.

Why can casters not fail spells while getting the crap beat out of them unless the mob applies a trip,bash,or proc?

There should be a combat casting skill that gets a skill check while a caster is tanking and casting.. clerics and the warriors casters should be the best at it and mages should be a pretty bad at it..

I think this would make the melee classes happy and caster types would
be more limited in what they could solo.. cause they would get a skill check for evertime they got wacked.

and it would follow the more traditional D&D style.

Another thing is that clerics are part warrior in d&d. but here they all wear hp gear and do nothing but heal. isn't there something that could be done
to balance the cleric class out to make them more cleric like and not a wimpy priestlike charater. give them some defensive skills, maybe some eq that can be worn by warriors but when warn by a cleric of the right align the cleric gets bonuses that the warrior wouldn't. I would like to see
a cleric that has a 20 20 hit dmg. with decent hp.

maybe make healing potions more available so that people don't have to rely on clerics healing? And don't say that there are healing potions available. cause they are ither once a boot,rarish quests,or very small potions.

these are just ideas.. don't turn this into a flame and start calling me an idiot cause my ideas would take away the ablity for you to twink.
Yayaril
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Postby Yayaril » Sun Aug 31, 2003 4:36 pm

8)

Even if healing potions were available, you'd still have a limitor on how many you could drink each day. The big problem I see with this idea is that mobs would never cast spells if the players were constantly beating on them. That and when in a zoning group, even when I don't tank, I get hit a lot. Casting spells would certainly become a lot harder if this was implemented.
Stamm
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Postby Stamm » Sun Aug 31, 2003 4:37 pm

Perhaps quick chant should be !succeed while tanking?
Bilraex
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Postby Bilraex » Sun Aug 31, 2003 4:47 pm

quick chant is a horibble enough skill as it is, please can we do more to take away the ability to solo /sarcasm

i like the idea of a check to cast while tanking, but the problem is it will be based on soemthing ghey like int and shamans will get screwed once again

i am always advocating the battle clerik but it goes well beyond eq and weapons, it also comes down to ther lame skill caps this mud has, it's hard to be a battle shaman when your dodge is maxed at 40 and your weapon skills are maxed at 65/50 1h/2h, although it appears actual clerics can get those skills a little bit higher.

in order for battle cleriks to be viable, dodge and weapons skills need to be able to be mastered, although it make take awhile after a certain point we should still have the chance, this one attack/rnd thing needs to go away, even in 3rd ed D&D my 15lvl elf druid can get 4 attacks/rnd hasted.

there is a whole lot more that needs to happen, but im leaving my rants untill after eq changes
Ashod
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Postby Ashod » Sun Aug 31, 2003 5:01 pm

Yayaril wrote:8)

Even if healing potions were available, you'd still have a limitor on how many you could drink each day. The big problem I see with this idea is that mobs would never cast spells if the players were constantly beating on them. That and when in a zoning group, even when I don't tank, I get hit a lot. Casting spells would certainly become a lot harder if this was implemented.


I see your point Yayaril, but there is a problem, just don't know how to fix it..
Stamm
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Postby Stamm » Sun Aug 31, 2003 5:59 pm

Bilraex wrote:quick chant is a horibble enough skill as it is, please can we do more to take away the ability to solo /sarcasm

i like the idea of a check to cast while tanking, but the problem is it will be based on soemthing ghey like int and shamans will get screwed once again

i am always advocating the battle clerik but it goes well beyond eq and weapons, it also comes down to ther lame skill caps this mud has, it's hard to be a battle shaman when your dodge is maxed at 40 and your weapon skills are maxed at 65/50 1h/2h, although it appears actual clerics can get those skills a little bit higher.

in order for battle cleriks to be viable, dodge and weapons skills need to be able to be mastered, although it make take awhile after a certain point we should still have the chance, this one attack/rnd thing needs to go away, even in 3rd ed D&D my 15lvl elf druid can get 4 attacks/rnd hasted.

there is a whole lot more that needs to happen, but im leaving my rants untill after eq changes


Warrior dodge caps at 65, so shaman dodge capping at 40 doesn't sound unreasonable. Perhaps priest types should get more than dodge though, maybe some parry and shieldblock too? Just as long as I don't ever get a tell 'Nah, don't need a tank, got a beefy shaman with a nice shield' :P

65 for weapon skills isn't so bad either. Warriors get 99, but we don't have the choice between fighting and casting. We only fight. I think it'd be unfair for shamen to be slightly worse only than warriors.

Clerics can't fight and cast, or fight and mem, so it's not that bad a thing at unbalancing.
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Postby rylan » Sun Aug 31, 2003 6:21 pm

Cleric wep caps for 1h/2h bludgeon are 80/80, and dodge caps at 50. If we got some sort of additional defensive skill like shieldblock I think you'd actually see clerics sacrifice some hps and actually use shields. I don't think parry seems to clericlikc for a skill though.
Stamm
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Postby Stamm » Sun Aug 31, 2003 6:23 pm

rylan wrote:Cleric wep caps for 1h/2h bludgeon are 80/80, and dodge caps at 50. If we got some sort of additional defensive skill like shieldblock I think you'd actually see clerics sacrifice some hps and actually use shields. I don't think parry seems to clericlikc for a skill though.


Well, when you think about it like parrying with a sword...maybe.

But when I think about it with a cleric parrying a blow from a big nasty orc with his warhammer... not so bad I think....
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Postby Dalar » Sun Aug 31, 2003 6:48 pm

rylan wrote:Cleric wep caps for 1h/2h bludgeon are 80/80, and dodge caps at 50. If we got some sort of additional defensive skill like shieldblock I think you'd actually see clerics sacrifice some hps and actually use shields. I don't think parry seems to clericlikc for a skill though.


eq changes = sacing hps
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
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Postby Lenefir » Sun Aug 31, 2003 8:50 pm

I've only a few comments: Sure, make it even harder for me to actually cast scales... Not only to fail it if I get bashed, or because of annoying highest circle spell failure (whose failure rate seems to go in waves, as I sometimes can scale without failing a single one, and other times, failing about one ot of five), but also to fail because I get these nice ouch, ouch, ouch messages... *pout*
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Ashod
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Postby Ashod » Mon Sep 01, 2003 4:05 am

Lenefir wrote:I've only a few comments: Sure, make it even harder for me to actually cast scales... Not only to fail it if I get bashed, or because of annoying highest circle spell failure (whose failure rate seems to go in waves, as I sometimes can scale without failing a single one, and other times, failing about one ot of five), but also to fail because I get these nice ouch, ouch, ouch messages... *pout*


How would you know that your spells fail.. when are you at the keys? :P

Failing at high lvl with all skills maxed shouldn't be to often.. i rarely fail
a 10th.. and if i do fail it is not often at all. I am not sure what the answer to downgrading casters is but i know it doesn't lie in eq... i think that has already be tried and it failed to my knowledge.. isn't that why the eq is getting all revamped?
Delmair Aamoren
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Postby Delmair Aamoren » Tue Sep 02, 2003 5:02 am

I've seen a cleric with a 20/20 hit dam... well shaman actually. The idea of giving them some semblance of defensive skills is definately a good one. and making 1h/2h bludgeon max at 80 if it doesn't already also sounds like a good plan. I sincerely doubt that parry would even be considered for them, as if i were a player with as many hp as a warrior, bout 1/2 the tanking ability, and could cast fullheals on myself, what use would a warrior be? I agree in giving them a reason to wield a weapon, a reason to wear armor, and a chance to use both.
Stamm
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Postby Stamm » Tue Sep 02, 2003 5:54 am

I don't know exactly how skills work...

But wouldn't, for example, a parry capped at 25 be significantly worse than 25% of a warriors parry ability?

If it is significantly worse then I think it'd be fine for clerics to have it, it'd be entirely cosmetic of course.
Bilraex
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Postby Bilraex » Tue Sep 02, 2003 1:18 pm

parry is a straight up warr skills and as a battle shaman i would never ask for that, shieldblock is not a bad idea, would give us a reason to wear a shield and a bit more defensive capabililty.

i still think skills caps for weapons are lame, and any cleric type should be able to master them. But at least remove this 65/50 for shamans give us the 80/80 if anything.
thanuk
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Postby thanuk » Tue Sep 02, 2003 2:18 pm

This will never happen guys, sorry.

Remember that whatever happens to the players also happens to the mobs. If mobs have a check against getting hit to interrupt spellcast, the game would fall apart. Imagine how many level 55 caster mobs would get soloed by rangers, because they cant get a spell off, as one of the 5 attacks per round will inevitably interrupt the mob's casting. Its a good idea, but you can't make it fit into the way the mud works, square peg in a round hole and all. You gotta think about this a different way if you're going to make it happen.

As far as battle clerics go, i think they should get shieldblock but not parry, and shieldblock should be capped around 50.
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