Necro idea

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Teyaha
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Necro idea

Postby Teyaha » Thu Sep 18, 2003 4:51 pm

every mage class including invokers have a blinding spell of some sort. why were necros left out of the loop on that? that blind spell coupled with stone makes elementalists solo machines, and i've seen an invoker solo to 33 in dk now and it's only getting easier for her because of blazing beam.

would like to see pwb in 7th circle, or give nerve dance a chance to blind. :)

also would like to see gate and relocate on a necro but not pet castable. they only mage missing that too
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Postby Vahok » Thu Sep 18, 2003 4:57 pm

Illusionists do not have a blind spell either....
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Postby Nassis » Thu Sep 18, 2003 5:28 pm

Illusionists have stun and dont need blind that much.

Necros should have a blind spell. Maybe not pwb, something weaker. "c 'eyerot' guard" :) . Liches' eyes shrivel up and die so they dont get the spell.
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Postby chandigar » Thu Sep 18, 2003 5:43 pm

Necro idea thread already started,

http://www.sojourn3.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=11327

But yea, blind help a lot
Stamm
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Postby Stamm » Thu Sep 18, 2003 5:57 pm

Warriors don't get a blind ability either.

Can we have it at level 35 please?
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Postby Teyaha » Thu Sep 18, 2003 6:01 pm

warriors arent casters mr. board troll

and many warriors have it at level 1..called ebony ls
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Postby Stamm » Thu Sep 18, 2003 6:07 pm

The point I was trying to make is why should mages have something just because other mages have it, perhaps I should just have said it rather than demonstrate it.

Necros can certainly solo very well.

And think of the impact? Give them blind and once the mob is blind they can stick their pets on it with no risk.

I'm sure it's not escaped everybodies attention over the years that necros can't blind, and I'm sure that's for a reason.
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Postby Teyaha » Thu Sep 18, 2003 6:11 pm

you dont play a necro apparantly.

elementalists are already likethis. actually with emobodiment, stone and pwb they dont use their pets after 32 or so

necros just go invis and let their pets do all the damage then try to get the kiling blow in.


which is overpowered?
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Postby Stamm » Thu Sep 18, 2003 6:13 pm

So your justification for necros getting blind is that elementalists are overpowered?

You'd need to make a decent case before I'd agree with you (not that my agreeing has any effect on things :P)

While invisible I don't believe you can cast any offensive spells without snapping vis.
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Postby Teyaha » Thu Sep 18, 2003 6:20 pm

exactly stamm. each class is a give and take. what i see is the only pet class in the game without a blind spell to deal with switches. i see elementalists soloing level 50 casters starting at level 30 using feeb. necro pets dont even compare to an air when it comes to tanking ability.

necros have always needed a blind spell as well as gate/relocate to flesh them out. a voker with stone skin kills the same mobs faster than i do, and she doesnt have to share the xp with her two pets.


it's a balance issue, and unless you play this class please keep your comments to yourself.
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Postby Stamm » Thu Sep 18, 2003 6:23 pm

It's just another post from someone wanting an upgrade, with no justification other than somebody else has it.
Teyaha
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Postby Teyaha » Thu Sep 18, 2003 6:25 pm

um yeah. isnt that why elementalists have gate/relocate now? you're just trying to start a fight on the boards. i dont see you doing this to other posters.
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Postby Stamm » Thu Sep 18, 2003 6:26 pm

Actually I did, and my post was deleted because I was apparently flaming, and I was spoken to about it. I don't think I'm flaming, because I have a point to make.

I'm not trying to start a fight either, I've made my point though.
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Postby Teyaha » Thu Sep 18, 2003 6:30 pm

then what was said to you didnt register man. your post up there about just another person wanting an upgrade because someone else has it is a flame and flamebait. it's not constructive in anyway.

every necro/lich will more than likely welcome this spell even though it doesnt do much in zoning. but if you dont play this class you can't possibly understand the why's and the why nots.

and i'm sure every necro/lich would enjoy having gate and relocate. not because it's overpowering or would tip the scales in class balance but because it's fun.
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Postby Sylvos » Thu Sep 18, 2003 6:38 pm

Unfortunately, I don't think blinding really falls into the repetoire of a necromancer. Especially since the only reason stated for asking to receive blinding is to prevent switching.

If instead though, a withered mob wasn't able to switch targets. That would be much more believable to me; they just don't have the energy to direct their attacks against a foe that isn't the one right in their faces.

Yeah, they'd still engage you if everything left the room and you walked in, but in essence a withered mob would be unable to switch. And isn't that really what you're asking for? switch protection?

Gate and Relocate... I unfortunately can't offer an unbiased opinion on this. I do play a necromancer, and I'd dearly love to have these spells just for transport. All I can say on it is if they were to grant these spells to necro's, then yes pets shouldn't be able to cast them. But I just don't see where in a necro's magical focus planes travelling or relocation fits.
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Postby Teyaha » Thu Sep 18, 2003 6:45 pm

it doesnt fit with illusionists or in a way elementalists..gate for mentalists but not relocate.

it's just fun to have.

i'd take the wither idea over blind.
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Postby Sylvos » Thu Sep 18, 2003 6:52 pm

granted Teyaha, but I'm trying to think of reasons for your requests that don't revolve around the basis of 'but X has it and they shouldn't' That kind of argument is inherintely flawed, since it isn't based on the merits of Y, but instead on the lack of merits of X.

If a kind of relocate could be proposed that drew upon a necromancer's manipulation of life, then cool that makes sense. To limit it to non pets, you could make it non-undead (thus shafting liches) or make it !charmed casters only.
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Postby chandigar » Thu Sep 18, 2003 6:57 pm

Sylvos wrote:granted Teyaha, but I'm trying to think of reasons for your requests that don't revolve around the basis of 'but X has it and they shouldn't' That kind of argument is inherintely flawed, since it isn't based on the merits of Y, but instead on the lack of merits of X.

If a kind of relocate could be proposed that drew upon a necromancer's manipulation of life, then cool that makes sense. To limit it to non pets, you could make it non-undead (thus shafting liches) or make it !charmed casters only.


Once again, see the necro idea thread for the 'soul guide' spell.
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Postby Gyrx » Thu Sep 18, 2003 6:58 pm

I really wish people would just let the topic of necro's getting gate/relo die already.
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Postby Mitharx » Thu Sep 18, 2003 7:12 pm

I've let it die:P

Anyway, I posted necros getting blind a couple times and decided that it's not really a necro spell and not really necessary. It makes necros a bit more of a pain to xp and not as handy in certain situations, but I think they just have to learn to deal with it. I have class in two minutes. I'll expand on why it's bad later (I'm not just gonna say cause I said so;)
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Postby Todrael » Thu Sep 18, 2003 7:29 pm

Necromancer and Lich are damage classes, not effect classes. I wrote up a huge proposal about why they should be effects instead of damage, but it was ignored. Damage is easier to balance, anyways. We won't be getting blind or gate/relocate. They're too much power to add to an already powerful (and relatively balanced) class. The vision that's been accepted by the imms of Sojourn3 is that Necro/Lich should not be a Solo class, and we have to accept that too, since it sure seems like they won't be changing their mind any time soon.
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Postby Dalar » Thu Sep 18, 2003 8:28 pm

WHAT PART OF IYACHTU IS GONE DO YOU GUYS NOT UNDERSTAND?
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
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Postby Stamm » Thu Sep 18, 2003 8:37 pm

Iyachtu is back? Wooo!

Nice!
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Postby Burpie » Thu Sep 18, 2003 8:54 pm

Teyaha wrote:exactly stamm. each class is a give and take. what i see is the only pet class in the game without a blind spell to deal with switches. i see elementalists soloing level 50 casters starting at level 30 using feeb. necro pets dont even compare to an air when it comes to tanking ability.

necros have always needed a blind spell as well as gate/relocate to flesh them out. a voker with stone skin kills the same mobs faster than i do, and she doesnt have to share the xp with her two pets.


it's a balance issue, and unless you play this class please keep your comments to yourself.


Can ele pets vamp touch pls? Can we get casting pets while we're at it? I feel ripped off :P ..btw, liches OWN ele's in zones. finding a goob to toss into the next room isn't too hard, such as spob or seelie. Lich class is pretty freaking strong to me. They can shatter fireshield, mutli feeb a mob..etc. There's a lot of take on the 'giving' aspect in that some would like to see gate/relo/blind. Ele's can't touch some of the powers a lich has, zoning or soling.
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Postby Teyaha » Thu Sep 18, 2003 11:15 pm

i'm not talkin about liches, i'm talking about necromancers

my pets may vamp touch, but they get b eat to snot. an elementalist or shaman blinds their target and their pet is rarely hit, specially if that mentalist is fighting something that cant normally see invis.

i'm only now able to kill things at level 29 that an elementalist was killing at 21. at 26 that same elementalist was soloing tower clerics.


necro pets dont tank fer crap. 'nuff said, even after i ray and wither the target. and unlike that mentalist or shaman that can blind the mob, dump all their damage, have the pet flee, remem and repeat therefore getting 6-12% per kill for all the damage xp...well such things dont happen for necros levelling.

we can heal our pets? yep, for about 50hp on avg.
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Postby Vahok » Thu Sep 18, 2003 11:31 pm

Blind and gate for necros...inferno next anyone? Let it go you corpse humpers...you have many spells that are useful for zoing and solo exping, so I think some people are overeacting here.

Not every mage class has to have the same spells ... or do they?
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New spell? Maybe for necro or for druid or Psi

Postby Abbayarra » Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:00 am

A tenth circle spell when thrown in a room acts as a group vigorize critical.
When it is cast on an individual character who is in Ress effects it either removes the Ress effect immediately or has a deleterious effect if it fails.
I was thinking either lose 2% of XP or lose some con temporarily.

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