idea to push around about recall

[Thalen]

I remember reading a post on this board about someone wishing they had some sort of recall so they could safely leave zones for real life emergencies. Well if this is a problem for many people, how about implementing some sort of 'emergency' recall?

It wouldn't be at all like the spell. To prevent abuses it could only be used once a real life day (or even week) and once a player uses the command to activate it they would have to wait a few minutes before they are actually transported.

Now some people will say it's totally unrealistic and unsuitable for a challenging mud like Sojourn. I totally agree it's unrealistic, however, seeing as Sojourn is first and moremost an online game it seems that it'd make sense to have certain commands that aren't very realistic for the game but at least make it more functional. Just like 'tell'.

Sounds a bit like camp I know but I don't think I'd sleep well in Jot :P.

[Tilandal]

I dont realy think a recall command is needed. I always hated muds where if you were getting killed you would just run away and teleport back. Realy if you want recall play a cleric or druid and use word of recall. If you are low level there realy isn't anyplace you would be going that word of recall would be needed. If you are mid to high level you should know the mud well enough that you shouldent have to use recall. Usually if you are in trouble you would just outright die or run away. If you manage to survive recall isnt realy necessary. There are certain situations where recall would be useful like if you fall into the tar pit but my philosophy is everyone should fall in once so they wont do it again.

[Thalen]

I didn't really mean for it to be used for those reasons. I thought it'd be for real life emergencies not as an ingame exploration tool.

Example: You've been in a high level zone for a few hours where leaving the zone alone is an unthinkable idea. Suddenly a real life emergency comes up and you have to leave right away. You can hit this recall button and be sent back safely rather than having to die or hassle the group.

I agree it could be abused for the reasons Tilandal gave. So maybe it would only work once every 3-4 real life days and would freeze the person once they initiate the command until it's complete. Another idea to push around

[Gindipple]

This is exactly the type of thing I'd love to see implemented. Yes it is a challenge to the coders to make it so that it isn't abused for the game, but it would really open up alot of people into zoning more I think. And the idea of it taking maybe 10 mins after you enter it would prevent you from just fleeing a monster and using it. There are RL things that come up that you must absolutely attend to. If you sitting in a !well !tele !word room or zone for that matter, what are you to do? Is it right that you should have to drop link and the next time you log in opps you're nekid! I know there are even RL things that make this happen, ever had power go out while you was zoning, oh man that's a crapper. Gods can't do much there, but in the other case it is possible to implement something. As to play a cleric, hrmm for 1 needed spell? that really shouldn't necessarily be cleric only. How about just add penalties onto it, like you lose the same exp as if you died by using it? Toss it around.

[Mplor]

Years ago I'd have said: If you want wuss sutff like that, play a wuss mud. But now I'm one of the wusses with jobs and a RL, and I see the temptation. I have to admit I'd use this occasionally, but I just dont see it ever happening on Sojourn. Imagine a group trying a big zone, and it is becoming apparent that the group is getting spanked...the group leader calls 'evac' and all those who cant escape type 'recall', and maybe lose all their exp (it would have to be that way to be unabusable) but keep their equip to make the CR easier. Just doesnt seem to jive with the way Soj is played.

[Galok Icewolf]

Although, this would make situations where time is tight, or people are in a bad place a way out, I am against this idea. Ive seen other muds with the 'recall' ability (altough not limited to 1/day) and it seems to ruin the whole atmosphere. I think sojourn is above and beyond that, and that there are MANY ways to leave if need be.

Camping (not in all places, I understand)
Moonwell
Rift
Inns
Word of recall
Portal
Relocate

All in all, I feel that it isnt necesary, and it detracts from the game.

Galok gsays 'Hey guys I gotta go the game is on, I'll be gone in 2 minutes.'
Galok dissapears. Poof!

[Waelos]

Hrm. . . what zones are really all that 'inescapable' in a 5 minute span? Seerkings is !tele,etc. . . but scorps isn't very far away, and you could just run a gater/weller out there with your person who had to go and get out in 5 minutes easily. What other really badass zones are !transport? Brass? Roots? (the zone is only like 10 rooms. . . you prolly could run 10 rooms in an emergency) =)

I can't think of any zone that having this long term recall would really make all that big of a difference. If it is implemented, you'd have to make it instant. . . otherwise, whats the point? If it works like camp, why not just camp in a relatively safe room and log in an alt later and have a rescue team ready to come clear for you?

I believe the only real place you'd need/want this is UM/UM2/UD . . .which would really kind of kill the mystique of those zones =) Hell, I'm afraid of 'em, cuz I _know_ there is no easy fix to screwing up there =)

my 2 kroner!

Lost

[Gromsharulaz]

As Thalen said, use lag to deter abuse. If after you typed your recall / return / wifesayslogoffnow command (whatever they want to call it) you had to wait one or two real life minutes before it kicked in that would seriously cut down on its abusability.

Add in some other things like locking out all commands during that time, not allowing it in combat, etc. and you effectively make sure people can't use it to avoid a fight if one is coming. You aren't really going to want to sit frozen for a minute or two while a big nasty mob beats on you. The time is small enough that your group isn't going to mind guarding you until you go *poof* but long enough to stop you from using it to escape an upcoming fight.

There is one abuse I can think of that would slip through that, having someone in the group volunteer to suicide, remove his gear, give to someone else, and spam close door to keep the nasties out while the group recalls.
You'd have to find a way to prevent something like that aside from player aversion to be being the one gets to die and lose his xp.

As for the using it to get out of a pit, find your way back home after wandering and getting lost type thing - the idea of some XP loss would put a damper on that. It would have to be less than what you would lose dying though. I mean why bother with coding the command if you can just dump your gear on someone and pick a fight with the next large mob in the zone and achieve the same effect.

Of course you could always make it an admin headache and have the recall point be the cage or something similar. ;) Explain the nature of your emergency to be let out. Of course our imms would just love that and be about ready to leave everyone to rot after a week of that hell on their time.

- Gromsharulaz Darkmace, The 'I swear my gf threatened to leave me if I didn't log off' Derro of the Cage.

[cherzra]

Seer kings isn't !port There are places where you can gate/shift/well/whatever... and they're easy to get to. Besides it's cake to run back to scorps, seers is a tiny zone in comparison.

Cherzra the mad mapper!

p.s. trade you my scorps/seers info for the aryuk necklacestats/quest! =)

[Waelos]

Ch -

Seers? Hrm whassat? I've never been there! *snicker* you get my point tho. if you have time to sit still for 2 minutes, you have time to camp in a safish place, or get out. Would I like to be able to recall after running out to Oh, say Zhentil keep looking for rares? sure I would! hell, that 2 min lag time would be nothing compared to the 20 minute walk home.

I do like the recalling to the cage idea. Or just have the game log all recalls. Then again, that opens up a lot of arbitrary rulings that Im sure we don't want any part of.

"why did you recall?"
"I had projectile vomiting"
"You were within 2500 rooms of a possible rare load, you are lying, you lose 1/2 your levels"

I don't think something like that would happen any more (I _really_ hope it wouldnt. We're all gonna be nice this time!) but rather not leave that possibility open.

Xp loss (1 notch would really be the only option. 2 is too close to what you lose dying, and anything less is too little) wouldn't really work either. You think that someone wouldn't 'spend' .1 of their 50.9999999 levels to move home real quick after running rares? Hell, I would. I make that xp back up in one zone easily.

And Cherzra, I'll give you the stats, just email me! the quest itself however . . . no dice! *grin*

Lost

[Malacar]

I agree with Thalen here. This is a command I would love to see imped. And yes, I do see the potential for disaster and abuse. I think 'freezing' the player for 5 minutes, then dumping them back to their hometown would be the key. They would be very vulnerable, and they couldn't use it to escape from mobs that way. Another thing to add onto that would be to have the gods pump the message that someone did this to a log. And yes, once per 3 RL days is perfect.

I have a life. I have a job. I am also on call 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days per year. This means I need to leave abruptly sometimes. Yes, I could easily run out and camp or whatever if it's an easy zone, which I would prefer to do anyways. This is a command that folks want imped for the multiple hour zones. Invasion, Seers, Manscorps, etc etc.

People are saying 'just get a well, or whatever'. Why inconvenience your entire group when you need to leave for personal reasons? Stop arguing against something like this for silly reasons, or 'just for old times sake'. Things change, and this is something that would save jobs, grades in college, etc.

Mal

[Elscint]

Too abuseable. Not really needed feature.

The truth is especially with the new group size limit, they are going to need to bring in someone to replace you anyhow. You need to leave, they need to bring someone in, ussually that means there going to open either gates, wells, or something to try and move people around. Besides how many times do you think you are going to ditch out on a group leader before he's gonna stop taking you with in favor of the guy he found 5 minutes later to replace you? If you ain't got the time to do the zone, don't go. I'm not really talking about the actual emergencies but think about it, you don't think some putz is gonna join your group knowing he has to go in an hour and a half and not tell you. Whether he does it for exp or the "bid" (lame way of splitting eq) that he thinks he's gonna get, it doesn't matter. It will happen, besides it's not that big of a deal for a sorc to gate prime if you're on a plane, or they could gate you out to another plane, learn astral so you can run to the tree. Along these lines I guess the only think I could think of that would be somewhat decent would be to implement some sort of one way portal from Ethereal to a random room in the Desert at all times, then your mage could gate you to eth and you could jump to prime easily. That's just my thoughts on a solution, sice Ethereal isn't really that tough of an area.

Elscint Hairytoes (The Halfling Sorcerer)
Luke

[cherzra]

This would be a useful command, but I honestly don't see it as fit for toril. I would use it to get back from ZK after checking for rares, or for getting back to the UD if I'm all the way down south near Skerrt-Gul.

Yes I would use it to get away from !port zones too if I had to leave in an emergency, but in all honesty, how often does that happen? To me, never. When I set out to zone I make sure that I have enough time, be it 2hr jot or 5 hr manscorpions.

It would just be so uncool to see someone gsay 'oh too bad I gotta go' and recall, especially a warrior class. Clerics can word, Sorcs can relocate out, and almost all zones are portable so the rest can get a well/shift out. Or just camp

[Joth]

Actually when i was leading a zone would just do 1 of two things if the person had some time could get them out no problems, but if the person said, "Damn gotta go Joth, and lose link, I drop them off in safe area, and ungroup, not that hard. Recall should be reserved only for clerics,druid, and shamans, and even then you have to use planeshift now and then.

[Malacar]

That's what I like to see. *tips hat to the hairy-footed one*

Good points. In all honesty, it doesn't affect myself, because I will eventually(I hope), get reloc... I can see the need for it, and the detriments of it.

I guess my point about silly(bad choice of words, perhaps), is not to simply say 'it doesn't have a place on a mud like sojourn'.. Thus my change remark.

Anyhow... I'm rather neutral, but would rather see it imped than not.

Ok, I'll shut up now.

Mal

[Jegzed]

Just strip naked, hand yer gear to a friend and die/lose link.

Fast, quick and OUT!

/Jegzed

[Elscint]

Hey Jegzed you forgot part.

Strip Naked
put gear in your bag
pass bag to friend
have mage create
bag
barrel
4 rations
keep a shiny metallic potion
then drop link =)
hopefully if you lived to void you'll have the chance to run the zone naked and keep your exp when you log back in.

Elscint Hairytoes (The Halfling Sorcerer)
Luke

[Me]

In my opinion, anyone executing an "emergency recall" should be locked out of the mud for some (lengthy) amount of RL time -- 12 hours comes to mind.

This solves several of the problems outlined in previous posts. Anyone using this command shouldn't really complain about such a downside, after all, they were the ones who had the emergency.

As to whether the command should be implemented in the first place, I am mixed. I suspect that many who are against it are of college age or younger; after all, who hasn't missed a class or two just to finish up a zone?

For those of us a bit older, things get more complicated, and reasons to have to suddenly and unexpectedly leave rise dramatically. As one who falls into this camp, I can understand why many would want this feature.

Overall, I suppose I am still mixed on the issue.

[Sarell]

I can think of a kazillionillion ways to abuse a recall. I agree with jegzed, give your quip to someone, real life trauma enough to make one of you crazy folk who get to do seers away from the mud! Then I'm sure it a big enough disaster to have the exp loss pale in comparison hehe. If there is a time lapse on the command then it is made obselete by the ways of getting out listed here, ie transport / friends help. Perhaps they might even CR you after the zone is done hehe.. It is impossible in my opinion to have an instant recall, any one can say, "I had my hand bit off by a yak and had to recall before I filled my puter with blood!" or some other more reasonable excuse. the worst that can happen is you lose some exp. If you were soloing in a zone that is not safe you were prolly going to die anyhow JK *ruffles self*. I guess there might still be a situation in which it would be good, perhaps have to tele to a !exit room, not be able to log on for a week then tell the gods what happened and why you didn't partition at the time. (would be worth it to save a whole set of quip if it was all that bad).. RANT RANT RANT

Have a rad day dood!
Sarell/Ladak "warriors can word, our equipment cant is all!...why don't I ever level?" ...aka Patrick

[Faerwynd]

You could make it so that when you hit the "emergency recall" button, you are immobile and vulerable for a brief period of time (akin to a camp) at which point you are placed in the void or a cage or something for when you log back in. Then you should have to petition a god or something to let you out and you better have a damn good reason.

There could also be some mandatory down time like 12-24 hours of being unable to relogin to the mud. That would keep people honest.

1) There would be no mass exodus' if a battle goes sour cause you'd have corpses to CR and you cant come back for a while. You couldn't do it during a battle because you would be paralysed while you "emergency recall" and you'd die before it's comeplete. You'd have to do it in at least a meagerly safe room.

2) You'd have to face an admin god with a decent reason of why you had to bail quickly. Of course you could lie about this, but with the other downsides (frozen while emergency recalling, 24 hour waiting period) which would keep people from wasting their time with it.

You know how pissed you all got when Shabay would recall in the middle of a zone or xp. Imagine how pissed you would get if someone recalled with half the group spanked at the Sultan. You'd never get a group with them again. But if it was a real emergency at least you'd have the option of playing again with all your eq and not just straight up quitting like people do when they lose everything.

I think the idea merits some thought by the admins. I'm sure they could come up with even better ways to make it work in a legitimate fashion.

Jaeb