Shamans

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Gormal
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Shamans

Postby Gormal » Sun Feb 25, 2001 10:08 pm

Time for more fun Gormal ideas!

Imho shamans need a few tweaks to them. Not including changing the names of their spells so that they aren't the same as a clerics.
A shamans stregnth from a MUDding sense lies in his/her ability to heal/vit in some capacity, and his summoned totem..which is what a shaman is built around. If the totem is SO important to the life of a shaman...and if you lose your totem your character may never get a new one, why not give the player some spells to back up his precious friend.
(note that the following names are just crud I pulled out of my ass)
Spirit Heal-Heals the casters totem for about 250. Does not work on anyone elses totem or on mobs/pcs.
Spirit Rage-Berzerk your spirit for a limited time. Again, works only on the casters spirit.
I have no idea what to name this but an innate that would be some kind of last resort with the shaman and his totem where his spirit would sacrifice itself to heal/enhance the shaman, possibly his group somewhat as well. This could be either a sort of combination ability where the shaman gains powers for a while of his totem (and couldnt summon a new totem while they were active) or the last resort thing.
10th circle quest spell:Spirit Blast-The shaman channels energy through his spirit for a non-elemental attack spell. Could be altered so the text of the spell changes depending on what type of totem the shaman has.
None of this would severly unbalance the class. If a shaman's pets die off s/he would lose these abilities until he could summon a new one. If they don't have the pet with him/her then they just have to rely on their other spells.
I'd like to see groupheal work on everything in the room (mobs and pcs) and give it a one or 2 star casting time.
If anyone has the complete shaman spell list post it at once!
Galok Icewolf
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Postby Galok Icewolf » Mon Feb 26, 2001 7:42 am

This is sorta a moot point until we see the changes. Uthgar has already (he played a high level shaman, he knows whats up) reviewed, added and changed alot of the spells. We'll see whats new and go from there. Image
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Postby Tayros » Mon Feb 26, 2001 5:01 pm

Agreed, moot till we play them.

I would like to see a more varied totem animal base Image maybe even indicators on the crystals as to a hint of what the animal will be, like feathers = crow, eagle, hawk... paw = bear, tiger, whatever, but player wuld ot really know...

Tay
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Postby Sarvis » Mon Feb 26, 2001 7:17 pm

I doubt anyone but me will think this is a good idea, but could shamans get spirit dragons for their spirits? I mean, they could be weak or whatever... I just think dragons are cool... heh. Or maybe panthers... panthers would be nice, dunno if you had them before... think I ended up with a wolf. (Wolveses are also cool Image


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Postby Guest » Tue Feb 27, 2001 4:29 am

Well, my turn to chime in.

I think all the totems should be animals from the north where the barbs live. Lets see, there was horse, elk, eagle, crow, wolf, snake, boar . . . lion, tiger, and bear OH MY! Never saw that one coming *duck* Did I miss any? I think crow should be raven, tiger, lion, and snake seem out of place . . boar? *shrug* What about hawk? badger? wolverine? fox?

What about totem specific quest? I know Uthgar is the right one to do the upgrades but how about a hint?

If the shamans keep elementals, how about customizing them like the Yuan's. A fire hawk ellie, a water bear, an earth wolf, etc. Just a thought.

Rho
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Postby Ruhr » Tue Feb 27, 2001 5:20 am

If the mud is shifting to PC tanks, won't that mean that shamen totem animals will be downgraded to obsolescence (therefore killing the class)?
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Postby Harthorm » Tue Feb 27, 2001 5:24 am

We'll just have to hope that the Gods have thought that through, I guess Image

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Postby Shevarash » Tue Feb 27, 2001 10:32 am

We have.

Future updates will illuminate this more fully than my feeble fatigue addled brain can do currently.
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Postby Jegzed » Tue Feb 27, 2001 11:06 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ruhr:
<B>If the mud is shifting to PC tanks, won't that mean that shamen totem animals will be downgraded to obsolescence (therefore killing the class)?
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Feh..group heal will always rock.

/Jegzed
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Postby Ruhr » Tue Feb 27, 2001 11:15 am

Yes, group heal has its advantages, however, I suspect most shamen in the past played the class b/c of the pets.

Without the pets, I'm not sure if the allure of *minimal* group heal will be enough to entice people to dedicate a significant portion of their time to play this class.

A possible way to correct this would be to replace the formerly mighty totems with more offensive spells, and to increase the number and potency of the group heal spell(s).
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Postby Gormal » Tue Feb 27, 2001 8:02 pm

Group heal was lame because it was 90% of the reason shamans got groups after 41. One spell should not make a class. Aside from vit and group heal shamans didn't get to do much.

Galok:just cause Uthgar is makign changes doesnt mean we shouldn't still post ideas:P Maybe he'll read them and get new ideas.
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Postby Galok Icewolf » Fri Mar 02, 2001 10:50 am

Hey gormal, I got to cast fireball, sometimes if I didnt needa cycle group heal. It was really great when the globe absorbed the brunt of the attack (ALL of it actually).
Definately thats what I've been saying, I don't wanna be a gheal ho anymore. Image

P.s. I was trying to shift focus of of this because I know there were changes made and other classes still needed help. (not trying to be a punk) Image
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Postby Zhadow » Fri Mar 02, 2001 11:53 am

Gormal ideas about giving a shaman a support spells for summon animal totem are right on the money Image

About the groupheal, i believed this spell should only heal those who are group with the shaman casting the spell (hence "groupheal"). Don't you think it makes the shaman look stupid casting heal on the enemy.

About the kind of spirit animal totem a shaman gets should be base on the animals that habitat the shaman's location. Get rid of the insect because they are not animals.

Another thing Image Shaman should be able to specialized on summon animal totem at level 50. Give the shaman another quest to able to summon legendary creature base on what ever existing animal the shaman have.

About the shaman's spells. Let the shaman get their spells by collecting herbs and other materials that will create even the basic spells of shaman Image Don't you think that this will make the shaman more interesting to play Image Once a spell is created through mixing herbs, chemicals etc ... it will be forever embedded on the shaman's mind Image

I agree with rendering shaman and conjurer useless if sojourn III is going for PC tank.
I did not include necro because they have their own unique spells that are usefull in a group and they can also turn into lich. Unlike shaman and conjurer ... their spells are combine second rate spells of cleric, sorcerer and enchanter.

I hate to admit it but conjurer and shaman are useful in the group because of their summon. Conjurer got unlimited tank some protection , support and fire power spells. While shaman got 3 tank if it does not fail and unlimited minor tank;some healing spells, protection spells and support spells.

NOTE: These are just my opinions and ideas i came up with by reading some of the posts in this site. If you have any comment(s) feel free to voice them out Image
Galok Icewolf
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Postby Galok Icewolf » Fri Mar 02, 2001 12:37 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"> <B>
About the groupheal, i believed this spell should only heal those who are group with the shaman casting the spell (hence "groupheal"). Don't you think it makes the shaman look stupid casting heal on the enemy.
</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE> </B>

Ummm.. group heal only heals those that your grouped with.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"> <B>
About the kind of spirit animal totem a shaman gets should be base on the animals that habitat the shaman's location. Get rid of the insect because they are not animals.
</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE> </B>

It pretty much is already that way, and its summon totem. Not summon totem animal. Spirits actually inhabit everything according to FR. So I could technically summon a lake spirit, or a tree spirit so on and so on.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"> <B>About the shaman's spells. Let the shaman get their spells by collecting herbs and other materials that will create even the basic spells of shaman Image Don't you think that this will make the shaman more interesting to play Image Once a spell is created through mixing herbs, chemicals etc ... it will be forever embedded on the shaman's mind Image
</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE> </B>

I am against spell componets and thats what this is. Its silly to make one class have to do 2-3x as much work for spells that are inferior to others. Give shamans specialize.. anything.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"> <B>I agree with rendering shaman and conjurer useless if sojourn III is going for PC tank.
I did not include necro because they have their own unique spells that are usefull in a group and they can also turn into lich. Unlike shaman and conjurer ... their spells are combine second rate spells of cleric, sorcerer and enchanter.
</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE> </B>

Anyone who has played a high level shaman, people are more interested in gheal then spirits, and I for one didnt play so I could have spirits. Yes they were cool, but shamans didn't have them before and they still were played.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"> <B>I hate to admit it but conjurer and shaman are useful in the group because of their summon. Conjurer got unlimited tank some protection , support and fire power spells. While shaman got 3 tank if it does not fail and unlimited minor tank;some healing spells, protection spells and support spells.

NOTE: These are just my opinions and ideas i came up with by reading some of the posts in this site. If you have any comment(s) feel free to voice them out Image
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Have you played a shaman or a conjurer? I would definately say you haven't, at least to high levels. Especially after downgrades multiple times. Spirits and mentals would often melt before dragons and the like. No, shamans at least.. (I haven't played a conj past 21) were mainly ignored for grouping until level 41... I wonder why?

You tell Qualith 'Need a shaman for some zoning?'
Qualith tells you 'Talk to me when your level 41, then we'll need you.'

Btw, it wasn't just qualith Image Alot of the real zone leaders were that way.
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Postby Zhadow » Fri Mar 02, 2001 8:54 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Galok Icewolf:
<B> Have you played a shaman or a conjurer?

Yes i had 2 40 + shaman. A barbarian and a troll.

I would definately say you haven't, at least to high levels. Especially after downgrades multiple times.

Even after the down grade shaman's spirit and conjurer's ele are still the best tank there is to use in a sense that they are expendable.


Spirits and mentals would often melt before dragons and the like.

This is true, but they still provide the warriors some help when it comes to tanking and rescuing spell caster.


No, shamans at least.. (I haven't played a conj past 21) were mainly ignored for grouping until level 41... I wonder why?

True that most group leader does not include a shaman in their group unless he or she have groupheal. But i have my share of fun doing small zone and other quest that only required my spirit as tank. My ele as lure. Me as a vit, heal and protection caster.

You tell Qualith 'Need a shaman for some zoning?'
Qualith tells you 'Talk to me when your level 41, then we'll need you.'

Btw, it wasn't just qualith Image Alot of the real zone leaders were that way.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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Postby cherzra » Fri Mar 02, 2001 9:17 pm

Try to leave your comments out of the
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"> </font>
part, nobody will find them in there Image
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Postby Marforp » Fri Mar 02, 2001 9:18 pm

How many spells do you think other casting classes use? Clerics full heal, sorc globe stone (bah okay enchanters, but old school rules), druids well and doom, rangers magic missle ;-)

The only class that really has more then one or two spells is invokers.

Marforp/Sasdor
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Postby Galok Icewolf » Sat Mar 03, 2001 2:14 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Marforp:
<B>How many spells do you think other casting classes use? Clerics full heal, sorc globe stone (bah okay enchanters, but old school rules), druids well and doom, rangers magic missle ;-)

The only class that really has more then one or two spells is invokers.

Marforp/Sasdor</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If the mob was globes this is what people could cast...

Clerics.. well if your gormal: :P
Ressurection, Full heal, Holy word, Vit, Full harm

Druids.. I saw cyclone, well, doom, barkskin

Enchanters... Dragonscales, stone skin, haste, blur, relo, constriction, chain lighting

Shamans group heal, stone skin


Its okay though cause shamans have been changed. I'll see them either march 15th or april 15... *shrug*
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Postby Sarell » Sat Mar 03, 2001 5:25 am

Group Schmoop

Shamans were great for wandering around,
could do more stuff than just about any other class solo, (stone + heal!)

And when they get the level Gheal is certainly in demand.....

I think....

hehe
Gormal
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Postby Gormal » Sat Mar 03, 2001 6:17 am

Honestly I say give clerics groupheal in some form and change shaman gheal. Then change shamans purpose...like i stated earlier.

enjoy!
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Postby Galok Icewolf » Sat Mar 03, 2001 11:41 am

Actually.. i belive enchanters had the best solo-able twinkish things. Conjurers were second or third with shamans being 2nd or 3rd also. Yes shamans had heal but it did significantly less then an average cleric, because 1. no specing, 2. lower wisdom. My max heal at 48th level I think healed 92.. and that was my best. I never got a master'd skill. Unlike many other classes.
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Postby Uzzel » Mon Mar 05, 2001 3:29 pm

Shamans = Totem animal ?

There was a time when shamans didnt have totem. At that time troll and ogre shamans was among the most valued evil race charaters. Sure shamans was at this point the only evilrace casters, but their value was for other reasons/spells then gheal. It was for the combined flexibility. No other class combine the spell of healing and protection as the shaman.

In high level groups good shamans are counted as a spare sorc (Stone), a spare cleric (Prots, vit (heal if you dont have clerics, bad)) and a damage controler that reduces the chance of a group spank. To talk about Group heal, it not only heals the entire group but it is allso one of the fastest spells in the game. A good exprienced shaman can get 2 - 3 gheals off and save a dieing player while the clerics is strugeling with his quickchant to get that full heal off.

Spirits, sure they are nice but they often also limits the shaman. If you play the shaman as a sprit holder, dont bother the conjurer is a much better class for pet creation.

To me the sorc is the glober, cleric the healer and shamans the group saver. The class you dont need until the shit hits the fan, but then you are happy you let him tag along.
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Postby cherzra » Mon Mar 05, 2001 3:32 pm

Actually, evils had conjurers, clerics, shamans and the mysterious class known as Gokk. Gokks ruled, but only one was ever rolled. He was super!
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Postby Tugunk » Mon Mar 05, 2001 8:14 pm

Quick question:

Which stat affected shaman mem times more; INT or WIS? Also, which was more important in the long run?

Tugunk the curiouslly fat Ogress
Galok Icewolf
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Postby Galok Icewolf » Tue Mar 06, 2001 12:21 am

The biggest difference was levels, above that was wisdom. If your meditate and int was high enough you could succeed and cut times in half, but in general, wisdom was way more important.

Shaman stone skin at higher levels most mobs crit through it, and it lasted for like 2-3 rounds. It was kinda pathetic... I'm not complaining some stone is better then no stone, most of the time. Not having a spirit makes it harder, but not impossible. I just hope the changes made didnt radically change shamans, they truthfully needed like 5-6 spells at most...
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Postby moritheil » Mon Mar 12, 2001 9:33 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Galok Icewolf:
<B> If the mob was globes this is what people could cast...

Clerics.. well if your gormal: :P
Ressurection, Full heal, Holy word, Vit, Full harm

Druids.. I saw cyclone, well, doom, barkskin

Enchanters... Dragonscales, stone skin, haste, blur, relo, constriction, chain lighting

Shamans group heal, stone skin


Its okay though cause shamans have been changed. I'll see them either march 15th or april 15... *shrug*

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


yes... clone. Clone all the way. And you forgot our sunrays (not much help against non-undead) and dinky heals.

I always wondered why, if Call Lit. was such a "massive thunderbolt", it was so lowlevel and bounced off globe.

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