human necro's and lich

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Liegashia
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human necro\'s and lich

Postby Liegashia » Fri Mar 16, 2001 2:44 am

I was thinking, now that humans cannot group with evil races liching for a human means abondoning your friends. During the huge quest you would have to have lots of your good race buddies helping you out, then when you finally achieve it, you turn into evil race, and would never be able to group with them.....only the evil races wich previously you havent grouped with at all Image. It would not be a problem, say if you were allowed to group with evil races from the beginning...maybe as a solution....with a select few classes...when you create it as a human, you can select either to be able to group with just evilraces, or just good races...humans being a sort of mediator
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Postby santego » Fri Mar 16, 2001 5:48 pm

Hmm, or maybe just let necros group with whomever they want? I figure your reputation can't be hurt much more from grouping with drow and what not if you always have dead folks hanging around you.
Or maybe do the reverse? Have evil race necros do the evil race thing, and good race necros do the good race thing, and if anyone goes lich, let the liches group with everyone Image
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Postby cherzra » Fri Mar 16, 2001 6:12 pm

Hrm.

Antis and necros are the limit I'd say. There is no way on earth any goodie would associate with a lich, which is an animated foul rotting, intensly evil skeleton... they are even outcast from evil hometowns.

My 2 cents.
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Postby Malacar » Fri Mar 16, 2001 7:01 pm

I need to disagree. There are, albeit EXTREMELY rare, good liches.

Baelnorns are good elven liches that protect their families. There's also a king that is a Lich, though his identity is a secret in the realms. It is like .000000001% likely, but it IS possible.

That said, I agree, liches should be restricted to evil-race only groups.

Mal
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Postby Tilandal » Fri Mar 16, 2001 9:54 pm

I tend to think Human Necors and Anti's should be able to group with anyone besides pallies and rangers including evil races since they are playing inherently evil classes. Also theye are realy the only people who could interact between Goodies and evils. There should be some contact between them if only limited.
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Postby Malacar » Fri Mar 16, 2001 10:33 pm

Tilandal.. It was already stated by the gods that Necros and Anti's would be able to group with -anyone-. Evil race, good race, paladin, ranger. Anyone. The debate, I think, was specifically for Liches. Image

Mal
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Postby Blung » Fri Mar 16, 2001 11:19 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Liegashia:
I was thinking, now that humans cannot group with evil races liching for a human means abondoning your friends. During the huge quest you would have to have lots of your good race buddies helping you out, then when you finally achieve it, you turn into evil race, and would never be able to group with them.....only the evil races wich previously you havent grouped with at all Image. It would not be a problem, say if you were allowed to group with evil races from the beginning...maybe as a solution....with a select few classes...when you create it as a human, you can select either to be able to group with just evilraces, or just good races...humans being a sort of mediator</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you did start on your lich quest, you will know what the consequences are. THe beginning of the quest basicly explain what it is all about. SO THERE ARE NO SUCH THING AS GOOD LICH on sojourn lich's quest.
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Postby Liegashia » Fri Mar 16, 2001 11:19 pm

Ahh, that was my question actually, if human necro's were going to be able to group with evil races....if they are...I don't see a problem, because I don't believe Liches should be allowed to group with goodies...I just had a problem with ONLY being allowed to group with goodies before lich, and the opposite after lich, thanks Image
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Postby Tilandal » Sat Mar 17, 2001 3:13 am

Just a random thought: Do snake liches have feet? I mean come on just cause your undead doesnt change the number of legs you have. Just a thought.
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Postby Tanras » Thu Mar 22, 2001 5:32 am

I personally think human liches should be considered good race but still retain the outcasting. With the current system I think it makes sense.

Tanras
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Postby Karikhan » Thu Mar 22, 2001 12:07 pm

necros can't enter WD for a reason .. they are EVIL! they play with dead shit all the time *cringe* ...

leave them as outcasts ... allow those players to group with evil races if they desire ..

I personally would think that it would be the more experienced players as necros ..
the class in itself is more a solo class than anything, isn't it??

-------------
-my 2 cents aint worth crap
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Postby Malacar » Thu Mar 22, 2001 12:18 pm

Caps alert. Image

NECROS/ANTIS CAN GROUP WITH GOOD AND EVIL RACES.

NECROS/ANTIS CAN ENTER WATERDEEP.

Please bother to read posts before replying to them.

Thank you, drive through.

Malacar.
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Postby Guest » Thu Mar 22, 2001 12:46 pm

(I believe) Lich is no longer a race. It is a class only. Enjoy.

Also, Malacar, I believe that your info on necros and AP's is incorrect. As far as I know, they will not be allowed to group with both sides, only their own.

--D2
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Postby Malacar » Thu Mar 22, 2001 12:55 pm

Hrm, that's not what was posted. Did it change? *rummages through old posts*

Ok, I stand corrected.

http://www.sojourn3.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000025.html

I misread it. Image

They CAN group with either side, but not at the same time.. At least that's the way that thread makes it sound. You can either be good and group with good races, or you can outcast?

Is that right, D2? Image

Sorry for the confusion folks, my bad!

Mal

PS - Shev, where's that post about outcasts? Image (just ribbing you, I know you're busy with code, etc.. The good stuff!)

[This message has been edited by Malacar (edited 03-22-2001).]
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Postby cherzra » Thu Mar 22, 2001 1:58 pm

Well by the sound of D2's post, goodies will get liches as well. God knows why, it sounds totally absurd to me. Anyway, this will mean evils only have psis over goodies, while goodies will have way more classes at their disposal (plus, unless evils get an anti for one of their races, evils will lose access to the anti class). And goodie group restricts have been eased significantly.

Now I don't care about this since I play evil, but then I don't want to see trolls/ogres/drow or whatever downgraded in any way. Quite some people have been complaining about "evil super overpowered races". Before you know it the gods might actually start changing things based upon this 'objectivity'...

Realize that in return for 25 more hp than barbs/dorfs, 80 ac naked and regenation every troll loses multiple levels trying to leave Ghore, be it at lvl 5 or at lvl 20 trying to get to your corpse after dying (I always do) and they are like a barrel of gasoline whenever a fire based spell hits em. Ogres are the best bashers and get a tad more hp, but they regen the opposite of trolls, more akin to dead cows. Drow get nice innates but are blind half of the time. Yuan-ti lose 4 slots, which happen to the best slots for hp/proc eq. Add to this that 1) evils will likely have harder xp tables this time around 2) more paladork mobs on the surface 3)goodies do major zones months before evils because evils have far fewer players. Now goodies might get access to liches too. So please don't complain about ogre/troll hp, ogre bash, troll agility (goodies have barkskin right? There you go, you now get the same ac as a troll) and drow innates...

Cherzra, cranky, had a bad day at the office.

p.s. if goodies don't get liches, ignore this. The 'evils overpowered waaah waaah' section still applies.

[This message has been edited by cherzra (edited 03-22-2001).]
Guest

Postby Guest » Thu Mar 22, 2001 7:57 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Malacar:
<B>They CAN group with either side, but not at the same time.. At least that's the way that thread makes it sound. You can either be good and group with good races, or you can outcast?

Is that right, D2? Image

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Let me say again: as far as I know, they will only be allowed to group with their own side of the good/evil divide. Thus, human AP's have to stay on the good side. Snake necros have to stay on the evil side. Human necros have to stay on the good side. etc. This was a topic of discussion a few weeks ago on the private server and I believe that's what we decided.

--D2
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Postby cherzra » Thu Mar 22, 2001 8:13 pm

I like it better, humans shouldn't mingle with things that would eat them Image Much nicer for the '2 sides' concept.
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Postby Mplor » Thu Mar 22, 2001 10:32 pm

I believe this was spelled out on the SOS2 group by Miax some time before this board opened.

There is no more outcasting of any kind.

There will be no good-race classes that are allowed to group with evil-race players under any circumstances.

All evil-race classes may group with all other evil-race classes with no restrictions.

All good-race classes may group with all other good-race classes, regardless of alignment. (The following italicized info is no longer true, read Tempus' post later.) The single exception to this rule is that Paladins and Antipaladins may not group together under any circumstances, regardless of alignment. This means Necromancers are considered good-race classes and can group with Paladins, Rangers, or whomever they see fit.

Last I heard, Lich was a race: an evil race. For balance, I suspect that a difference will be made between once-human Liches and once-drow/snake Liches, so that both sides wlil have access to liches.

Think that covers it. Oh wait, I almost forgot! Evil races are overpowered! There, that ought to keep Cherzra gnawing on his hand for days. ;/

Mp

[This message has been edited by Mplor (edited 03-23-2001).]
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Postby Tilandal » Thu Mar 22, 2001 10:57 pm

Hmm that is gonna change the whole ballence of equpiment on the mud. Will be interesting but it does mean good race warriors will be much less reliable at bashing until they can get some of the heavyer shields. It does get rid of the goodie rolling up an evil and outfitting it with all thier old equipment problem though. Hmm come to think of it it also puts squids in higher demands since you can no longer get wells from druids. Should be interesting.
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Postby Malacar » Thu Mar 22, 2001 11:24 pm

Well thanks for the bold text. It was enlightening, lemme tell ya.

BTW - I think the new rules regarding necros and anti's is kinda bogus, but not my call. Why put two classes in contention like that? If they can't group together, why are Anti's, or even Paladin's for that matter, even on the mud? I've never played one, and I fully don't intend to, but I fail to see the logic behind putting two classes on the outs. Didn't the change for Rangers/Paladin's grouping habits occur for just this reason?

I definitely see the logic behind the outcasting rule, though I thought that Necros/Anti's would be exempt from this, but due to the ambiguity of statements, I understood wrong.

I'm also kind of curious about this decision to be honest. Good races shouldn't have liches, sorry, just my opinion. The rarity of good liches just makes this flat out not feasible. The simple fact that they now do have them, I feel, takes away from some of the interesting stuff that evils had(Goodies have rangers/paladins/anti's/druids now, evils just have psi's? Anyone else see some irregularity here?). I never played an evil, don't intend to, but I can kind of see where an arguement might spring from this now.

Now, this isn't my mud, and I am not going to sit here and bitch and complain, it's not my job. I am curious about the reasoning behind this though. Any chance one of the gods could comment on why it was decided this way? I'm not asking it to change, or even for you to defend your positions, so don't get me wrong. I just wonder if I am not seeing the big picture here.

Again, I apologize for my error in believing what I did about Necro's and Anti's... It just seemed the logical conclusion to me.

Malacar the wrong, member of the clique for many many years

PS - I seriously hope noone, especially the gods or coders, takes offense to this post. It's not intended that way, you put enough effort into this mud as it is, and I don't wanna rock the boat.
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Postby Mplor » Fri Mar 23, 2001 12:51 am

Mal, sorry if I sounded, er, condescending. There's no way most of the ppl here could know that stuff unless they were following SOS2 back when Soj3 was a rumor. And really, with so much that has changed since then, many of the things I posted could have changed since then. So caveat emptor!

Mplor
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Postby Malacar » Fri Mar 23, 2001 2:49 am

No probs, Mp.. I shouldn't have gotten snippy. Just a little peeved about the situation is all. Sorry if I snipped, snapped, or overreacted. Image

Me
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Postby Marforp » Fri Mar 23, 2001 4:04 am

Hrmm we might need some god clarification on this since I have been reading since rumor time and was pretty sure that
1) OC will not be possible since it will be hard coded you can't group with the opposite side
2) Necro & AP grouping rules as mentioned before
3) Liches would be evil race
4) Necro's could group on either side (assume just a code loop hole to get around rule #1)

I'm very interested in finding this out for sure since I've been thinking hard about going Necro (human) this time.

Marforp / Sasdor
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Postby Tilandal » Fri Mar 23, 2001 4:31 am

D2 said that the good/evil race divide is absolute. No humans can group with any evil races regardless of class. This means no evils will be able to use well. There will be no evil bards. Goodies will lack all pbone equipment most notably the weight 50 pbone shield (which was the most common warrior shield for levels 20-40). I thnk this is gonna create a huge mess of ballence issues because there will be no commerce between good and evil races. Hey it also means no evil race will be able to get onto EM (unless by a fortuitous gate) since they cant get a target onto the Island. Gonny be hairy ballencing it.
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Postby Mplor » Fri Mar 23, 2001 6:02 am

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sos2/message/4641

Re-reading that I do see where there is room for doubt. Marf, I see your point. I wonder how it will be after-all.

Mp
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Postby cherzra » Fri Mar 23, 2001 6:51 am

Actually Tilandal, I believe the staff had some ideas that would allow trading between the two sides, perhaps by making it possible in (for example) the sometime-to-be-added-soon Skullport. I'm sure they will come up with something, even if it's strictly regulated =)
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Postby Tilandal » Fri Mar 23, 2001 4:18 pm

Hmm that certainly would solve some problems. Still the evils will be short bards and druids. Maybe that will ballence out the innates they get. Will be interesting to see how things turn out.
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Postby Elscint » Fri Mar 23, 2001 5:41 pm

Here's how I see it after reading as much as I can on the topic...
Good Races and Evil Races may not group together (There is no such thing as a neutral race in mud terms). There are no grouping restrictions at all on either side except that anti's may not group with paladins which will only affect the good side races (Makes sense since they are totally against each other in every sense). Lich is now a class not a race so your race would remain Human, but your class would no longer be Necro it would be Lich retaining all the same Necro skills/spells and gaining those powers of a Lich. So as far as I can tell that would sum it up... even a Lich could group with a Paladin.. granted I hope you aren't a total twink and you role play this situation just to be cool about it.. but it could happen.. Infact I think it would be kind of cool to play a Human Necro and make the effort not only to become a Lich but to move your alignment to Good.. sure would make for an interesting conversation topic... =)

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Postby Cyric » Fri Mar 23, 2001 5:51 pm

Not sure if this is going to solve anything or just cause more confusion, but:

1. You most certainly CAN get to EM as an evil raced character.
2. Who sez there won't be evil raced bards? Certainly no god ever said that.
3. Just because a good RACED necro becomes a lich CLASS, does not mean that he is a now a good ALIGNED lich. Think of it this way...Bob is the most evil necro of all time, and he goes and completes the quest and POOF he's a lich...he was still a human once, but he's still just as evil...moreso if you read the text of the quest which I happened to write (and which does NOT require a ton of help from a bunch of good aligned players), it is apparent that being a lich is just being a badder version of your already bad self.

R
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Postby Tempus » Fri Mar 23, 2001 6:17 pm

For purposes of clarification, there is only one rule.

ALL good race classes are free to group with ALL other good race classes, and NO good race may ever group with an evil race.

Liches are now a class, not a race, you will retain your original race for purposes of grouping.

Yes, this does mean that Paladins, Anti-Paladins, Necro's, and Liches will be allowed to group with anyone they choose, including each other.

I'm sure many of you will object to the idea of a Paladin grouping with a Lich or an AP. Many of the gods felt, and I presume, still feel that way. It was a knock down drag out battle. But the bottom line is, a restriction would be nothing more than forced RP. Why should Paladins and Anti's be singled out for forced RP when their grouping is no more illogical than a Paladin grouping with an evil cleric, or a ranger grouping with an evil shaman.

You may very well see a Paladin grouped with an Anti-Paladin someday. If you don't like it, don't do it. The fact that it will occur has ZERO impact on game balance, and in the overall scheme things, I suggest that it will not ruin beyond hope your mudding experience on SojIII. In fact, for those of you who play the classes who have in the past been subjected to forced RP, you should find it a significant improvement in the viability of the class.

Temp

P.S.-This post was authorized by Shevarash, although the reasoning behind the rule is strictly my own and other gods may have decided on the rule for their own reasons.

[This message has been edited by Tempus (edited 03-23-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Tempus (edited 03-23-2001).]
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Postby Malacar » Fri Mar 23, 2001 7:52 pm

Thank you, Tempus and Cyric. I appreciate the candor and responses.

*puts this dead horse to rest*

Mal
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Postby Me » Fri Mar 23, 2001 8:13 pm

Makes so much more sense to me to just disallow humans from being ap's and necros, rather than have all this lunacy.

I'm sure you guys have been over this and over it again, but this stuff... I am just stunned.
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Postby belleshel » Fri Mar 23, 2001 8:29 pm

RP always takes a backseat to Power on a mud.
I was never big on restrictions but I can't really see a paladins god granting him powers while working with a necro/anti.. Any thought to not baring grouping, but limiting some abilities from certain classes when grouped with a polar opposite class? or of vastly differently alignment? I thinks we will see some very intresting groups in the name of powermudding now Image Course it will be intresting (and probably rare Image) to see a RP Paladin give up a group spot in name of RP...(i.e. a necro/ap already grouped)
Belle
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Postby Thalor » Fri Mar 23, 2001 9:46 pm

"The bottom line is, a restriction would be nothing more than forced RP."

Yikes! Isn't not allowing good and evil races to group together forced RP? Race restricting what classes you can play? Alignment restricting what classes you can play? Chosing a fantasy name? This type of thing is *good* it's part of what makes Sojourn better than the rest, why it attracts such great players, coders, and zone creators.

There's now 4 hitter classes competing for a limited number of group spots. As the balance of power stands, these classes can't afford to refuse a spot in a group for RP purposes, and unless they're die-hard RPers, they're not going to. So basically what we're saying with this is "Screw RP." And that's, well, not good, considering this is(was?) a MUD where RP was strongly encouraged. Why it's being decided to shun the RP atmosphere Sojourn has always encouraged so much has me rather confused, but I can save that for another extremely long post.

Let's look at a couple other options that could be used so we still have at least a *little* bit of RP in there:

A) Allow Anti-paladins and Necros to group with evil races, this will give them more people to group with, and free up at least a couple more hitter spots in groups for rangers/paladins.

B) Don't allow special abilities to work while grouped with these very evil beings, or at the very least don't let them work on them. Is a paladin's god going to let him layhands a lich or a lich's undead pet? To me, a holy spell like layhands wouldn't work on a lich's vampire.(maybe kill it, but not heal it)

C) Add a new player stat "Morale" It could affect chance of successfully casting a spell, using various skills, saving throws, etc. This could even be just limited to spells/skills used on Necros/Anti-paladins(I'm looking at everything from a paladins point of view right now). For example, a paladin would have a reduced chance of rescuing a necromancer.

D) Don't allow Anti's to group with Paladins. Sorry, but if you allowed Antis to group with evils, I don't see where this would become a problem too often. (Unless Antis are going to be the best class when the MUD opens or something)

I'm sure people can think up other ideas that better address the problem, and maybe don't hurt our Paladin, Ranger, Anti-Paladin and Necromancer friends/enemies so much. There has to be some way where we don't have to force these classes to abandon RP'ing like this. I have a lot of problems with the current way its been decided, but my biggest is the hitters have no real option of turning down a group offer, or leaving a group because evil beings are in it. Hitters can't pick and choose their groups like, say, enchanters can. It forces these classes to Not RP, where many other classes have a real choice.

Anyway, I think what's been currently decided by the staff should only be used as a last resort.

Er, maybe some of these things or something similiar has already been implemented, which would probably be the best compromise.

-Thalor


[This message has been edited by Thalor (edited 03-23-2001).]
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Postby Somerled » Fri Mar 23, 2001 11:48 pm

Repost on OC policy from Miax on the original SOS3 Egrpups board:

From: Kristopher Kortright <kkortright@v...>
Date: Sat Jan 20, 2001 2:55pm
Subject: Sojourn III Outcasting



There will be No outcasting on Sojourn III. The ability for good races to
group with evil races is being blocked in the grouping code, thus preventing
all need for administration of this issue. As many have suggested, outcasting
is only realistic in a few cases and it's FAR too abusable and causes FAR too
much administration hassles to be worth keeping. We understand that some people
like to outcast and wont like this decision, but we think everyone can agree
that the administration nightmare caused by outcasting is simply too
dis-tasteful to continue. It also makes trading between good and evil too easy,
not that we are preventing such trade, but it should be somewhat difficult.

To compensate for the major reason why people outcast, we have re-examined
the list of available classes that the Evils have at their disposal. There will
no longer be Huge gaps in what Evils have available to them, and we think that
this will eliminate the primary reason people needed to outcast. We do not have
a full list of classes for Good and Evil races on-hand for your review yet, but
one will be posted eventually.

Thus the Outcasting and Good/Evil grouping policy for Sojourn III is thus:

1) Outcasting is eliminated, prevented in the grouping-code and no longer
exists as far as Sojourn III is concerned.

2) Anti-Paladins and Necros may both enter all neutral and Major cities so
long as they don't have any Evil or Undead charmies. If said Necro/AP
tries to enter neutral/good Major city with Undead, they are attacked
and killed (both Necro/AP and Undead). The theory being that APs and
Necros are like anyone else, and guards can't just tell by looking at
someone, what they are. Even if dressed in evil-looking armor, so what?
I wear ACDC T-shirts all the time, and you wont see me getting outcasted
from Chirch for it do you? APs and Necros will be allowed to group with
good races save for #3 below.

3) Group-restrictions on classes are removed Except in the case of Paladin
and Anti-Paladin, these two classes should mix like Matter and
Anti-Matter. Beyond that, lets not punish any class by limiting what
groups they can join, even if it doesn't make 100% realistic sense.
There are always times when good and evil group together, and even
save eachothers lives for a common goal. We will use this Maxim to
explain the removal of group restrictions save for the one. APs and
Necros will be limited to Bloodstone as their hometown.

This does not deal with Trading between good and evil. That requires
more debate, and some coding to make happen.

Kris (Miax) o_O
=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Kristopher Kortright
kkortright@v...
Manager of Network Management for Support Systems
Road Runner Customer Operations
Office: 703.345.2476
Pager: 888.716.8907

"That which does not kill us,
makes us stronger..."
Friedrich Nietzsche


Pretty much clarifies everything. .. No Evil Race/"Good Race" (misnomer) grouping, only grouping restricts on the "goodie" side is ANTIs and Pallys CANNOT group, everything else goes.
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Postby Sszantiel/Morthor » Fri Mar 23, 2001 11:52 pm

Szantiel begins casting the spell, "animate beaten, dead horse".

I agree with Thalor. I don't understand why humans aren't going to be able to group with evil races? Aren't humans the most versatile race in that aspect?

Like I said in another post, the reason people of evil ilk group is out of fear and respect for eachothers power. They have a like mind for evil deeds and will band together to better carry them out. Therefore, I don't think humans would automatically be dinner for every ogre. As long as they wield enough power to gain the respect of the ogre, they would join forces for mutual gain.

Although it doesn't quite make sense, I have a feeling the new race will put an end to this debate. My skeleton of a beaten, dead horse will crumble to dust.

-Sszantiel
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Postby Tempus » Fri Mar 23, 2001 11:57 pm

Somerled, that policy has been amended. Palies and Anti's will not be restricted. See my above post.

Temp
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Postby Mplor » Sat Mar 24, 2001 12:15 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Thalor:
B) Don't allow special abilities to work while grouped with these very evil beings, or at the very least don't let them work on them. Is a paladin's god going to let him layhands a lich or a lich's undead pet? To me, a holy spell like layhands wouldn't work on a lich's vampire.(maybe kill it, but not heal it)</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is already the case. There are nasty consequences for using layhands on any player or pet/mob of evil align.

Ever cast 'disintegrate' self? Image

Mp


[This message has been edited by Mplor (edited 03-23-2001).]
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Postby Marforp » Sat Mar 24, 2001 6:31 am

Tharlor what are you smoking?

You think Sojourn/Toril was/is a RP mud?

There have been "MAYBE" 10-15 people who RPed a significant amount of the time (beyond saying by the power of X I shall ress you). It's hack-n-slash all the way.

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Postby Sarell » Sat Mar 24, 2001 7:55 am

I understand the reasons for making no good race/evil race grouping. Just seems a bit odd to me. Human necro can group with a vampire or wraith but not an ogre? Could necro/anti=pal be included in the grouping checks so they can group, so that the OC problem is still resolved with hard code? Also ...will there be a shield fo goodies hehe?

*keep up the rad work! hugs*
Sarell/Ladak/etc ... aka Patrick
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Postby cherzra » Sat Mar 24, 2001 9:02 am

Keep those human necros and antis on the good side, we don't want em.
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Postby Gindipple » Sat Mar 24, 2001 6:53 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Somerled:
<B>Repost on OC policy from Miax on the original SOS3 Egrpups board:

From: Kristopher Kortright <kkortright@v...>
Date: Sat Jan 20, 2001 2:55pm
Subject: Sojourn III Outcasting
...
It also makes trading between good and evil too easy,
not that we are preventing such trade, but it should be somewhat difficult.
...
Kris (Miax) o_O
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

On the issue of the pbone shield. EQ can still be transferred across sides. When a particular piece isn't wanted across sides it can simply be flagged good/evil race only. Maybe a comparable shield is available on the good side that would be just as hard for an evil to aquire. Or, if not, could be added.
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Postby Liegashia » Sat Mar 24, 2001 7:09 pm

Thank you all for clarifying that one for me. It sounds to me to be a much better system....before, the entire outcasting system was extremely shady and required admins to keep an eye out ALL the time...this way I believe will work much smoother! Thanks for all the input, and see you on the EVIL side *grin*

FORMERLY human necro, and mending his ways
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Postby Me » Sat Mar 24, 2001 11:00 pm

Lunacy.
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Postby Tanras » Sun Mar 25, 2001 6:42 am

well I personally think this is the right way to deal with this.

It also means that I will play necro again and this is good Image

Tanras
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Postby moritheil » Sun Mar 25, 2001 6:00 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Marforp:
<B>Tharlor what are you smoking?

You think Sojourn/Toril was/is a RP mud?

There have been "MAYBE" 10-15 people who RPed a significant amount of the time (beyond saying by the power of X I shall ress you). It's hack-n-slash all the way.

Marforp / Sasdor</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Toril was *much* more RP than 99% of hack/slash muds out there... It wasn't a full RP mud either.
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Postby Somerled » Sun Mar 25, 2001 8:32 pm

Tempus .. oh ... my mistake, didnt know the Palli/Anit restrict was lifted ... hmm .. well .. although the align restricts were often a pain in the but when I played a Necro, they were also irritatin as a Ranger too ... BUT ... as much as I fretted over them, I would have thought that "Decorum" would have at least required that the Palli/Anti restrict would remain ... shrug ... so I have to remind myself that Soj is BASED on FR and must not necessarily mirror FR/AD&D philosophies.

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