my idea on artifact/relic/unique item distribution.

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Nokar
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my idea on artifact/relic/unique item distribution.

Postby Nokar » Fri Mar 16, 2001 6:38 am

NO MUDSLINGING HERE PLEASE!!! this is not to start a contest as to who can flame who the best.. the is exactly what the thread is for MUD ideas.. and here is mine.

well I took a lil bit of time reading most of the posts I would like to add my 2cp worth of talking.. Although I will not throw any mud or bad mouth anything..

1. artifacts to my knowledge are one of a kind.
2. Most artifacts have an actual name not just a long sword +5 blah blah.. no they are named The battle axe of the forgotten kings. or Firestar the battleaxe of the forgotten kings.

now here is my idea for atrifact/relic distribution if there is ever one. Make it quest based entirely. Spread the quest out through out the whole mud map. it doesnt have to be 2 years long but make it last a good while. Also make these quests race and or class specific as per the rewards like a warrior type would get a random reward of some nice armor, or a sword, axe, claymore, etc. a priest type would get a robe, armor, mace, hammer, holy symbol, etc. you get the point.

then once these items are obtained they are a generic name for example:

Nokar has been doing his quest for the past 3 months, he finally get the last piece and goes and turn it into Kralgar in GN.

Nokar gives all the requested items to Kralgar.

Kralgar gives Nokar (in plain letters nothing different just plain generic) a battleaxe.

Now comes the "unique, relic, artifact part" as soon as this quest is finished and Nokar receives the item it sends a flag to an admin, or whoever deals with such matters. and the appropriate authority either comes down or Nokar gets mushroom clouded up to their office and they decide on a "UNIQUE NAME" for the item. Now the stats on this item would be better than normally obtained items and would have ONE unique effect randomly chosen. then once the name is chosen and the color is decided upon then Nokar is poofed back down to prime.

Nokar has a unique item he's happy and the newbie who was wandering around in Griffons Nest at the time whos name will beeeeee. hrm.. murthog for example... Murthog asks wow.. how can I get one of those.. Nokar says you cant. BUT! you can get a unique item if you earn it through a quest blah blah blah.. and so the newbie level 5 barbarian Murthog starts his quest.

How to stop level 1-10's from getting the item have items only off of HIGHER level mobs be part of the quest or just talk to to a higher level mob that give you a keyword or a special word and after talking to that mob it flags the player with the flag talked to kotchskoas;lkhf whatever his name was in jot. anyways you get the idea.. there is a plethra of ways to keep it tame and out of reach of low level pc's. and get it to where there is only one of each of the items rewarded (as far as the name goes) and no one will know who has what and which item was given in reward but the person who done the quest. because I could have received the a two-handed sword and I rename it "Brinth" the ancient battle axe of raging wolf. or to better fill out my rp story I could name it after the axe mentioned in my story that has been passed down from generation to generation... That is why it is ROLE-playing and not ROLL-playing... take this reply and run with it.. mebbe some more ideas can come of it and probably some better ones.

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[This message has been edited by Nokar (edited 03-16-2001).]
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Postby cherzra » Fri Mar 16, 2001 7:16 am

Cherzra's wicked three-headed whip of living slime.
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Postby Ragorn » Fri Mar 16, 2001 3:31 pm

Ragorn's Longbow of Indiscriminate Justice

- Ragorn
Nokar
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Postby Nokar » Fri Mar 16, 2001 5:04 pm

See guyz yer getting the hang of it =P but it would be a little more creative than that.
So what do you think of the idea? and ragorn If you show me your playtree I'll show you the full 24 page pictorial of xena in last months issue of playbarb.

L8r all,


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Postby Koric » Fri Mar 16, 2001 5:08 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Nokar:
<B>That is why is is ROLE-playing and not ROLL-playing...
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ooooh nice quote 8)
and idea was really nice too 8b
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Postby santego » Fri Mar 16, 2001 5:25 pm

And, to keep the item from being twunk to death by power-levelers, or sold: make it TRANSIENT and cursed. That way it poofs away if someone wields it, uncurses it to shift to someone else. Of course, you don't want your corpse rotting with it on it, but hey, its an artifact, be happy you even got one!
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Postby Nokar » Fri Mar 16, 2001 5:32 pm

EXACTLY!!!!

Here is my idea of an example of a random rewarded item. (you know me it WILL be an axe)

A Battleaxe

Transient Cursed

+7 hit +7dmg

can only be wielded by the person who completed the quest.


I dont know how hard this would be to hard code but if it was possible this would prevent anyone else from wielding it entirely.

also have it hard coded that the quest changes everytime it is done.

more to come later =)

L8r all,


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Sarell
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Postby Sarell » Fri Mar 16, 2001 11:50 pm

If a quest for an artifact is hard coded problem may arise in people repeating the quest or telling their friends how to do it. And while it still retains its uniqueness, there could be a major influx of these unique items, especially in certain circles.
I would suggest that if a god wants to give out an arti, then make a one off quest to get it.

The thing is, god run quests are really really fun for players and gods. So this instantly sets up a number of folk who wont have access to a quest. Things such as players who are not on 24/7, players like me in oz who never see anyone or may not be able to get on for a "prime time" quest.

One way around this would be for a god to make a quest that results in a treasure item at the end. Say an unusual mob appears in SF one day and asks for the return of some weird lost statues. All players could wander around looking for this stuff, then when a god feels like it they could do a locate to see who has the goods and invite those folk to participate in the following quest. This gives the chance for a spread of people to get together for a quest. While the same issue arises that only one group of people might know about the secret mob and stuff, they will only know of it because they stumbled upon it so it removes the element some claim of god discrimination. Doing little twinks to wld/mob/etc files to make one off quests and stuff in my opinion is really fun, so is taking on a mobs form or appearing as a god and roleplaying galore.

I really had no problem with gods choosing who would get artis and running quests for them. No one got artis who were "second rate" players I am fairly sure. One mud I know of has RP points awarded for questing both god run and otherwise, these ;points can then be used to restring items, perhaps add a random proc. Another good idea I think.

Anyhow thats enough rant for the moment.
PS "Cherzras Pointy Stick of proc MC "elf burger"
Have a Fabulous Day
Sarell/Ladak/etc ...aka Patrick
Lolok Frozencrow
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Postby Lolok Frozencrow » Sat Mar 17, 2001 1:34 am

Lolok mumbles in his brothers ear.

Larem says. Lolok says GREAT idea Nok , This could work like shaman totem quest. The item could be always a weapon and granted at level 50. The weapon could have no great stats but could have a proc. something that the admins and the player could decide upon,

Lolok wields a Mighty sword of silence.

This way it is fair to all, each item is unique, and atainable for everyone, fair.


L ImageL Imagek
Nokar
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Postby Nokar » Sat Mar 17, 2001 4:24 am

The hard coded part would be that it flags the person who does it and that person can only do it once.. and the quest would change each time.... So there would not be an influx of unique items. and each item would be different as far as when people look at them. And thus if the quest changes each time as to what items are needed or what mobs you speak to then there really isnt much someone can say or do to help another except by being there to help them physically complete it by helping killing the mobs needed or killing the mobs needed to get to the one non-agro mob in a zone to talk to it.
have it like kralgars quest.. you go do something bring back something that says you do it then he tells you to go do some more gofer work... but have it randomly change what needs to be done and since a pc can only do it once it is going to take a helluva long time to go through every possible change there is if it is coded right.. and a helluva lot of people. So the only way to cheat this system is to actually see the hard code itself and that is very unlikely that a normal player will even know what he is lookin at if he did see it.

Plus this takes the politics out of it completely...
becuase there would be nothing given to anyone by the imms save for the approving or disapproving of the name submitted for the item.

Thus rules out only a certain circle of people having said items and also rules out the possiblilty of someone "knowing someone" and saying hey bro howsabout some help here. only thing they could really do and not too many times without getting caught is tell them what the step they are workin on is.. due to the fact that not even mistress cleo off the psychic friends whatever can guess the next thing a computer is going to pick hence the phrase random.

The only political thing i could see happening is that the so called "elite" group getting to higher levels faster and being able to do the quests before anyone else does. Other than that I see no problems with this save for the time and frustration it would take to hard code all this.

*looks out for the godly crosshairs*

and as far as second rate players.. what constitutes as a second rate player.. most people who are into the hack and slash part of it and ROLL play wont be interested in spending the amount of time it would take ti complete one of these quests. What I consider a second rate player is someone who doesnt want to work for what they have.. I used to be one of those.. I got tired of being called as such so I started doing things on my own, mapping out zones, gettin groups and doing zones I started small and was almost ready to lead a small jot run... although I must say I am the only one I know of who can lead a spank on BGR =P (NO FLAME INTENDED, and NO OFFENSE INTENDED TOWARDS ANYONE!)

well I think that was long enuff..

L8r all,



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Gormal
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Postby Gormal » Mon Mar 19, 2001 12:36 am

Items that are nice yet transient suck complete ass. Ask dorac touka nd them how many sets of shells they lost that night of the gith cr. If your corpses rots you are screwed. yay for your 3 months of work or whatnot going poof.

3nj0y!
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Postby Dhurn » Mon Mar 19, 2001 4:17 am

heheh

Wouldn't it just suck if just after ya got yer spanky lil axe...ya got disarmed and watched yer spiffy lil toy go poof!

Now I gotta admit, I don't remember any mobs that chose to use that particular skill on PCs...but hey, with improved Mob AI...anything is possible Image
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Postby Dhurn » Mon Mar 19, 2001 4:24 am

btw I always wanted to be able to do this :

Dhurn wields a warhammer graven with runes, named 'Whelm'

I can't help it....I'm a sucker for the classics....I always loved that weapon.
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Postby Jasix Prowlingwolf » Wed Mar 21, 2001 12:05 pm

I agree with Nokar's idea about "renamed" items for quests/artifacts/uniques.

We have all been bludgeoned with words like "favoritism, elitism, godpetism, highandmightywankerism and other ism's."

Doing a quest and receiving a cool item is great, I quested the first Sabertooth mask last time around and had the only one for a little while, i felt kind of happy about that, then Mplor and a few others quested them so 'my unique' item as i thought of it as became once again common...

Unless soj3 is completely different to the one i was helping build making a restrung item for a player that completes a long ass quest would not be all that dificult. A fast coder could hammer out a new item in a few minutes. We not talking about chaning all the procs and crap, just the name of the item right? You could complete the quest and put in your request for your "restrung item" yes this wold take time and a coder to be the 'restinging guy' But if you took 4 months to complete a quest wouldn't it be worth waiting a week for a coder to have the spare time to restring your item? I know some coders might think , 'well buger that, that's just more work' But then it's not like they would be restringing more then 2 or 3 items a week.

Wasn't it Nukie that had the Widowmaker and the Disipline strap? restrung common items but loked hell cool! No stats advantages but major style points. hearned thema nd I not remeber many people whining that he had a unique items when they found out the stats were not an advantage.

This would only be relivant for major long term quests not for quests done every other day.

Jasix dons his necklace of Shalia nibbles.

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Postby santego » Wed Mar 21, 2001 12:55 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jasix Prowlingwolf:
<B>this wold take time and a coder to be the 'restinging guy'
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hereby volunteer to be Sojourn3's new "restringing guy".
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Postby Nilan » Wed Mar 21, 2001 3:00 pm

My two cents on the artifact issue:

I think the unbalance the game tremendously. I mean why strive for class balance if you got some guy wielding one of those god like artifacts.

For example take Ragorn's Bow of Indiscriminate Justice
hit +15
HPts (vamp on proc)
dam +15
proc dispel evil
(etc...you get the picture)

Talk about a huge class unbalance!!!

While I agree in rewarding players, giving out god-like weapons is kinda rediculous. Why use your skills if you can walk around with 1000 hitpoints, procing dispel evil every 4 rounds and having a huge hit dam ratio that no mortal could dream possible wearing all the best gear?

I agree in rewarding players by restringing items already available in the game. This is style plus roleplay and doesnt screw up the balance of the game.

Nilan
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Postby Mplor » Wed Mar 21, 2001 7:59 pm

Nilan, few artifacts approached the power you cite as a reason artifacts should not return. I can count on one hand the late-Toril artifacts which approached that level of power, and they did not represent even one-third the total number of artifacts in the game.

Avernus, Arex edition (x2, various owners, most well-known were Kurz and Kanthas)
Doombringer (Trogar upgrade)
Fade (Ilshadrial) <--- Poster-child of uber twinkifacts.
Mystical Warhammer of the Barbarian Kings (Tagad upgrade)

Most artifacts were significantly better than yer average item, but weren't so powerful that they could be counted on to turn the tide of a battle one way or the other. Mplor's gauntlets had haste and exactly twice the gross hit/dam effect that you could get from dscale/spider gaunts - no called effects or other procs. Very nice? Absolutely, but the net effect was that I could manage 6 damroll higher than my peers wearing a circlet. I felt like they were well within the margin of balance, and were probably a perfect example of an ultimate equipment reward, ie. artifact, in the game. I would like to see their kind return, but I frankly do not expect even so much.

Mp
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Postby Corth » Wed Mar 21, 2001 8:18 pm

Yah, this argument that artifacts unbalance the mud is getting old. If rares don't pop correctly do you get rid of rares? Of course not. You fix it. The same thing with artifacts. If they were too powerful, you make them less powerful.

The only argument against artifacts that makes any sense whatsoever is that the method by which they are distributed discriminates against certain people. I think that something could be done to rectify this problem... but theres no point opening up this can of worms again after the other artifacts thread.

Corth
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Postby Nokar » Wed Mar 21, 2001 10:59 pm

I thank everyone for the posts and the replies. And while I dont hate or dislike anyone I will state again! This is not a mudslinging or a pecker contest... I stated my idea it was not about how artifacts unbalance the mud. Other people who stated their opinion got their opinion turned around in such a way as to be construed as such. So please refrain from posting the issue on how artis unbalance or balance the mud.

How I wanted my idea stated is really rather simple and is being made a lot harder than what is needed. A lot said my idea was good some said it was bad.

I am not stating that my idea was the best but it is the most fair. All of you who are still complaining about well transient items suck or why do a 3 month long quest just so that if you accidently drop it or get it disarmed, etc. to have it just go poof?

That is the point excactly... People with such items are more apt to be a helluva lot more careful than people with the best not artifact weapon in the game.. Noting that if there is a medium to high risk that they could lose it they probably won't go and the other fact is that they cannot do the quest again unless they lose the artifact they have at present or make it hard coded that it would be possible to dual wield artifacts or uniques, by doing more and more quests..

PEOPLE this isnt a hack and slash mud, this is a role-playing mud. Yes we have some "power=players" so what.. if they want the item they're gonna have to sacrifice some of their precious hack n slash time to finish the quest because it will not be easy. And no weapon artifact wise would be no greater than +9 +9 none of that +15 +15 bs... no proc umpteen different things.. at the most it woudl have one nice proc and the name restrung.. thats it... Artifacts are unique one of a kind items and once they are gone i.e. lost, burnt up, decide to turn against the wielder, etc.. they are gone period.

Sorry about the rant guyz and galz just kinda lit a fire under my ass that the last statement in the post excluding mine was about the damn ongoing argument about how artifacts when not done completely right imbalance the game.

That is NOT what this thread is about.. take that argument to icq, aim, or even in general discussion.. this is for ideas of which that is all I posted.

Thanx

L8r all,


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Postby Mplor » Thu Mar 22, 2001 12:36 am

Hehe, good luck controlling a thread's content once it's begun. Gotta love/hate freedom of speech || the Internet.
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Postby Nokar » Thu Mar 22, 2001 2:03 am

hehe Nogs! =P


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I am the only one who can make the words "Ummm, guys?" strike fear into any group.
Nokar
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Postby Nokar » Thu Mar 22, 2001 2:03 am

hehe Nogs! =P


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Postby Karikhan » Thu Mar 22, 2001 11:49 am

artifacts .. ARE unique

how could you control arti's on a non-pkill .. or limited pkill mud??

the person to get it will have the ONLY one ever?? he will NEVER lose it .. I can't see a guy wielding (holding, using) an arti dying in a !CR situation...
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Postby santego » Thu Mar 22, 2001 1:56 pm

Another thing you could do with an artifact, because of the "transient/cursed" effect, would be to make all pc corpses with an artifact on them "no rot", so the guy could do his own cr at some period in time. Yep, this would be a major benefit on top of the normal bonuses, but it would help keep artifacts in the right people's hands. It would also require some coding.... And coding is always a show stopper.
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Postby Lohrandelarien » Thu Mar 29, 2001 6:10 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Nilan:
<B>My two cents on the artifact issue:

I think the unbalance the game tremendously. I mean why strive for class balance if you got some guy wielding one of those god like artifacts.

I agree in rewarding players by restringing items already available in the game. This is style plus roleplay and doesnt screw up the balance of the game.

Nilan</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Thanks Nilan!
I think what you said gots it all, in some simple strings that all players should think about! :O

BYE & HEY!

- Lohr

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