Artifacts

[Saitcho]

I'd be much cooler if i had a happyhat.


hehehehe

waelos you rock

[Jurdex]

Hey, lost, did you get that raise you were looking for?

*grin*

Perhaps the first group to do Tiamat gets a God-run quest?

Jurdex

[Iaiken]

See, my problem is not with who gets the arti, or even if I get an arti.(not bloody likely)

The problem is some of us DO have lives. I have my friends, I visit my friends/family back home on regular intervals, I am vehemently dedicated in my schoolwork and my job.

So I don't HAVE the time to even really be eligible to even contend for an artifact. I; like many, was lucky to spend 15 hours a week, let alone doing 15 hours a DAY! (I'd prolly off myself if my life came down to that) So, when the time finally comes that Iaiken hits lv50(I'd say a good 7-8 months). Poof, all the artifacts are distributed and I have never the likes to EVER recieve one... THAT is my problem. (Though you COULD make me happy by selling one of them thar flambies for an acorn...)*chuckle*

And I agree that there should be more variety in the higher levels as it is sad see everyone walking around wearing the same stuff... Mayhaps they could redistribute some items to other zones. ie Black Brigandine can also be located in IC but is called Jade Jazuraint... *snicker* stuff like that... It's not really a problem at lower levels as peoples sets change daily... but the high level peeps go for long stints(measured in hours) between "aquisitions..."

Something to think about...

Iaiken, Paladin of Torm.

"One can always wish for better odds, but never for better friends..." -Iaiken

[Waelos]

*laugh* Thanks UberNinja! I'll see what I can do to hook you up with a HappyHood, which would be more in line with your kind of work . ..

Speaking of work! Jurdex! i can't believe my CEO said No when I asked him if we could trade salaries for a week! He said something about starving to death. . . go figure!

First Tia smiting group getting a GRQ? That sounds fair to me. But is that fair to me if Im still level 5 when you do it? I think I deserve a shot! narf.

Peace and happyhats to y'all

Lost

[Gormal]

waelos would wear pants? waelos only wears shorts i thought!:P

[belleshel]

Pants please! You really want to see his legs gormal?:0

[Faerwynd]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Iaiken:
So I don't HAVE the time to even really be eligible to even contend for an artifact. I; like many, was lucky to spend 15 hours a week, let alone doing 15 hours a DAY! (I'd prolly off myself if my life came down to that) So, when the time finally comes that Iaiken hits lv50(I'd say a good 7-8 months). Poof, all the artifacts are distributed and I have never the likes to EVER recieve one... THAT is my problem. (Though you COULD make me happy by selling one of them thar flambies for an acorn...)*chuckle*</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can't play 15 hours a day any more either. So should I spend my time trying to lobby the Staff to take artifacts away from the people who do? No. Why? Because I'm not a jealous person.

So what if Kurz has Avernus and I don't. So what if I can't ever get one because he already has it. I'll keep playing. I'll keep looking at people and their equipment and think to myself "Damn I wish I had that." And if it happens to be something that I can never get, I'll probably want it even more. But shit, I can want to my hearts content and I'll never score with Anna Kournikova. Such is life.

Look. I definitely understand that people want to be treated fairly and have the same chances as everyone else to get things out of [MUD] life (not to be confused with "real" life). This isn't your store bought game "Baldur's Gate" though. So all y'all's protests holding sings that say "Down with Artifacts!" and "Equal Opportunity Artifacts for All!" actually have an impact on the Staff, that wants this to be a great place for all.

Fortunately the Staff have all been around a LONG time, and they know the whole story from beginning to end on the goods and evils of artifacts. I'm not sure, but I believe they've already made up their minds on what will happen with Artifacts in Sojourn 3. Whatever they decide I guess I'll stick with, even though I'm Pro-Artifact instead of Pro-Everybody's Equal.

It's not like _I'm_ going to stop playing because I can't have an artifact (wether it's by God design or because they're all taken up by the Elite players). I'm still going to kick ass at the game.

[Thrand]

So if I'm getting the gist of most of the arguements for artifacts is that It will just
be apparent that certain people are special
and they deserve to be recognized as being special. To recognize their specialness they should get fancy special items to help them
be even more special.

I say lets recognize their specialness.
If you aren't from america you don't know that special kids ride in the little yellow
school buses. So I propose the special kids from soj III get there names put on the seat
of a chair in a little yellow school bus that could be parked at the turning point.

If anyone didn't know who was special they could go on the bus and read the names of the special kids. This way you would know who to talk slowly too when explaining things and such.

On the off chance that artifacts actually do
come back into the game, I'm curious if evil races would be eligible for them. If I'm not
mistaken when there were artifacts evil races were just not allowed to have them.
This struck me as rather odd since evil race
players were supposedly the better players looking for more of a challenge. But evil race players already ride the little yellow school bus so I guess they know they are special already.

Thran/Ezz/Dan

[Faerwynd]

You sound bitter Dan.

Good point though. Was there ever a God run quest for Evils?

[Corth]

I was away for a few days so I have a lot to say...

Tagad:
Feh! I ask you for a single favor and you hold it over my head for years Oh, and you were included in my list. When I said "etc", I was specifically thinking of you!

Jurdex:
You deserved your artifact as much as anyone could have. I can't speak for Lloth, but I'm sure he had very good reasons for chosing you and Tro. Besides, what good is an artifact to a sorc.

Iaiken:
You argue against artifacts because you don't have enough time to play the mud and get one. I hear that. I'm way too busy in rl to ever mud regularly again. The fact of the matter is that some people are more deserving then others, and you can't mud part time and be deserving of that kind of honor. Other people who are more involved obviously should not be passed over by a sunday mudder. To be honest though, I kind of feel sorry for people that mud so much.

Lyt:
You said, "It seems to me the reverse. The people who really want artifacts are those who need them to give them their self esteem."

If this is true, explain why most of the people you see here who are arguing in favor of artifacts, have never even had one. In fact, Jurdex who had an artifact, seems ambivalent about them.

Bibbe:
You said "...i don't play because i want to make myself a reputation or something like that. I play because it's FUN! gussch!"

Yeah, so obviously mudding cannot be fun if you play for respect and reputation, and status. I guess people should quit trying to get 'spanky' eq and 'style points' since they're obviously not having any fun doing that. Perhaps we should get rid of levels since its a measure of status, and that can't possibly be fun. In fact, theres a lot of stuff we can get rid of...

Look, I dont know what aspect of sojourn is fun for you... The way i see it, people play for different reasons. Some people play to be social, or explore, or RP. Still others want to be power mudders and acquire money, wealth, influence, whatever. I don't know who you are to officially define what is "fun" about sojourn. My feeling is that the more reasons there are that someone would want to play, the better the mud is.

Corth

[Tagad]

AnUnnamedGodTellsYou, 'Dont talk about this as anything less then real life, it can be just as important to some people'

What that basically taught me was some people have differnt value sets at differnt times in their lives. No one should fault anyone for playing 20 hours a day if they so choose. Were all getting older, that doesnt mean the mud should become any less hard core. K thanks.

Corth: Yes I will hold that night over you forever! Thank god we were not outcast :)

Tagad Sigil

[Wargo]

A mud can only be as good as its design. However, with the right players, it can surpass its design. For the people who spend the time and effort to play the mud, they deserve something special because they are the very people who made the mud special. When I started playing Sojourn1 and saw those players with spanky titles and spanky artifacts, I realized that this is a mud that recognizes player contributions. I tried out many muds and I have to say Sojourn is the best. It's not because of the mud design. It's because of the environment created by the people who play. If you can't play as much as others, then obviously you are not contributing to the mud environment as much. Therefore, you do not deserve artifacts. And no, you do not get a fair shot at one because you got level 50 too. For all you people who are against artifacts, you are experiencing what people call "Sour Grapes Syndrome".

Wargo who never had an artifact but was still different from other 50 warriors =)
Hey, what other warrior do you see who consistently get an extra attack every 3 rounds?

[Nilan]

My two cents on Artifacts:

We talk of striving to balance the game, balance players, balance classes. yet we make artifact quests for hand selected individuals????

Does this balance the game?
if every rogue had 1000 hitpoints and fade, hell wed do tiamat too.

what artifacts do is unbalance the game. heck why bother fixing class skills, adjusting race and class hit points, down grading items, if we are just gonna hand selected 15 or so people to "quest" and receive artifacts?

It makes no sense to me and goes against the whole idea of game balance.

[Sarell]

I think artifacts are rad! Provided that they do not have powers enough to throw the mud balance / economy out ok kilter. If people are spending 170 days a year playing the game then damn straight they should have some pretty piece of ansi to show for it.
<font color=#FF00FF>Cherzra's Pinky </font><font color=#FFFF00>and yellooow pantaloons of </font><font color=#FF00FF> Ridiculousness</font>
(not to mention legally binding citizenship in faerun :P *ruffles*) Artifacts add bundles of excitement and atmosphere to the game. It is always good as a newbie and then as a mediocre high level player to say WOW when you see something particularly spanky (not sure if it is fun to compare your artifacts as well *ducks*). I am even fully behind god run quests and such... the gods do know who the heroes are. If you honestly believe you are hard done by by NOT having an artifact, then write a good RP story and tell the gods why you should, they all seem to be reasonable folk to me. Read some of the log files of previous quests, they really do show how much work some of the people put into their characters. I do believe artifacts should be VERY rare, something that you can look at someone and know that they rock! Most folk still have plenty of gear to get without needing artifacts, I know I never quite did find a spanky druid belt that came in green!

Some of the ideas that were tossed about with regards to cons of artifacts I thought were just dandy. The idea of an artifact having a timed life on a plane, or being hunted constantly for one and such could be really cool, just depending on how good the area folk are at writing procs or teaming up with the coders I guess? The idea of an artifact given out to winners of regular arenas contests I am not too fussed over. Most people it would seem don't care fo pkill or arena and giving artifacts out to arena only folk, could get a bit biased. Especially when we all find out the ultimate pkill class and use one of those for arena. Anyhow enough rambling for the moment. Have a nice day

Sarell/Ladak etc ...aka Patrick

[Ruhr]

As I see it, the point of artifacts is to keep the main zone leaders comming back. If they've got nothing to distinguish themselves from every other player of their class, then they (probably) feel as if they've beaten the game, and therefore lose interest, or things are too homogenous (e.g. everyone has the exact_same_gear).

So it's not just an areas/balance issue, it's and admin issue. Without those leaders things get boring, as they were (for me) after the toril pwipe.



[This message has been edited by Ruhr (edited 02-20-2001).]

[Averyn]

Quote Sarell:

Some of the ideas that were tossed about with regards to cons of artifacts I thought were just dandy. The idea of an artifact having a timed life on a plane, or being hunted constantly for one and such could be really cool...

wow, that sounds like a great idea... having equipment that loses its power depending on what plane your on i mean... that would be awesome for even normal equipment. mebbe the item would be more powerful on certain planes too...

Averyn wields an ancient staff named, 'Treehumper'.

an ancient staff named, 'Treehumper' throbs with life.

cast 'planeshift' ethereal

an ancient staff named, 'Treehumper' ceases to throb.

damn, lost my woody...

[Yayaril]

I'm sure other leaders will come forth and start leading raids. Even if you have every item that you can get from a certain zone, it's still fun to go back and kick arse.

Yayaril

[Elseenas]

Artifacts:

Under the D&D system, artifacts can take controll of their `owners' and have severe repercussions for their use.

That is how they are balanced. Anyone who comes across the the Hand of Vecna will think twice about using it. Same with Chreshinibon, or the Chaos Crystal (anyone ever play the Carnival of the Damned?) This was true even of the Good Aligned artifacts.

That was how they were balanced: increadibly powerful but extremely rare, difficult to destroy, and with a whole host of nasty side effects.

That is difficult to do in a game like a MUD. On a table top I can hold reasonable expectations on how I would expect the player to behave when I pass them a note on what is going on between them and the artifact. If they don't do it, then we talk on the side or I can take control of the character. This cannot effectively happen on Toril.

There is the second problem of artifacts being MUCH too powerful with very few difficulties. This is more implementation than anything, but the point remains and it is increadibly difficult to balance something like this.

Just my 2 copper.

Elseenas of No House Worth Mentioning

[Gindipple]

I've been reading Lord of the Rings lately and I have to agree with that about artifacts sometimes taking control of their owners. Just look at the ring and how sometimes it helped Frodo and Bilbo, but usually not without a small price to pay.

Gindipple.

PS. Don't read more into that than there is.

[Faerwynd]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Elseenas:
<B>Artifacts:

Under the D&D system, artifacts can take controll of their `owners' and have severe repercussions for their use.

Elseenas of No House Worth Mentioning</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow great point. Not sure how feasable to code, but talk to Ilsha about her Fade quest some time. It wasn't all shits and giggles =P

[Artmar]

Maybe give every artifact a minor chance to disappear every ACTIVE use?

Say: we have this spanky sword with nice stats and some protects. As long as we don't try to tap into it's higher powers, we can keep it indifinitely (but then it is not better than some of top-class, not unique stuff). If we try to invoke any of its main powers, we stand a % chance (dependant on artifact, and actual power used) that it will disappear. Chance could be somewhere between 0.5 % (minor offensive spell once/day) to 99.999999... (divine level powers, not that i would want them on artifacts).

I think that it would be a good way to redistribute artifacts back into the community AND make the owners more wary of indiscriminately using their precious toys.

Just my $0.02

Artmar Whiteraven

[Galok Icewolf]

I don't think making artifacts dissappear or change owners is the way to go. There should be upkeep on them though. Far more interesting, and will keep not only the owner of the artifact but intice all those that like to read stories, would be to have the owners of artifacts write a rp story every 2-3 months. It is (imho) not cool when you work for a year or more on a quest only to have it gone. Artifact or anything. Keep in mind I also think that previous artifacts were too powerful (most of the time) and that they should be a little more limited. I don't want to ever see a 15d4 10/10 axe that procs meteorswarm. Another possibility though is to make it so if an item is really good (e.g. procs meteorswarm) then either make it 1d1 3/3 or normal damage but -50/75 hps. Traditionally speaking (omg? traditionally?) artifacts had both benifeits and detriments. A good example is some magic items in Baldur's gate. The claw of kasuth? or something like that gave alot of +saving throws but at the same time made you frail, - against poison and some other stuff. Artifacts shouldn't be all good.

Ive babbled long enough.

[Lyt]

OK, Let me just say that I am glad that Miax said on the SOS2 that artifacts would not be returning to Sojourn3. Argue all you want, but I doubt this is going to change.

As far as artifacts go, sure everyone would love to have them, but if you fail to see how they unbalanced the mud, then your eyes need fixed. Did you ever notice that the people with all of the artifacts were usually always in the same group together? They were not spread out among various groups of players and circles of friends. This was then the group that would roll through zones like Brass or Jot in record-breaking time. It was this said group that was then the reason that all of the major zones got significantly upgraded. Thats fine and dandy for the group that had all of the artifacts, but COME ON, what about the rest of us regular groups without the aid of these damage machine weapons? We then had an even harder time doing a normally difficult zone. What do you think happened to us when they upgraded these zones? We got screwed.

Ask Ilshadrial some time what the stats were on Fade. It was a total joke how unreal it was. Read the log I put on the SOS2 about the last time we did Tiamat before Toril went down. We had Fade, Doombringer, Trogar's hammer, and a couple of other artifacts including Avernus. Even with these we had a hard time killing her. Imagine a group of normal players attempting it without the aid of these items. It would have never worked. Look at the attempts the evils had when the mud came back up and there were no more artifacts. They had the people and skills, but Tiamat had been boosted before due to the artifact owning group killing her on a regular basis.

I won't say that I don't ever wish that I could have an artifact for one of my characters, but I am realistic enough to know that they just screw over the mud on a whole if they exist.

Lyt

[Waelos]

Lyt -

If somehow I could talk really slowly and used sign language to make this more clear, I would. Please read the following with attention to detail:

Ever_y_one...that...has...writ_ten...on... this...thread...agrees...that...old...ar_ti_facts....were...too...pow_er_full.

Not...a...single..soul..wants...or...has.....sug_ges_ted...that...they...be...imp_le_men_ted...in...the...same...power...level...they...once...were.

This thread isn't about how Old artifacts unbalanced the game. We've already established that. It IS about brainstorming ideas and debating the implementation of BALANCED artifacts into the new game. I thought that was clear.

PS - If you could direct us to the thread where Miax stated that artifacts would not be returning to S3, I'm sure we'd love to see that. I've read this board, and the egroups before it, quite thoroughly and have never seen a difinitive answer to this question (which is why Corth brought it up. He reads pretty well too, me think). The only reference was one made by Burunga (I believe) that stated that he did not want to see unique items back in the game (meaning named items such as Twilight, etc). That was on the S3 weapons thread. Maybe the declaration of no artifacts was errantly made in the 'Storage Boxes' thread and thats why I missed it.

If I seem a bit unfriendly, it is because this is getting so _old_. People keep bashing artifacts for the way they were and NOT focusing on the issue at hand.

And yeah, you will find people with artifacts grouping together. Wanna know why? Because good mudders tend to hang out with their own. Birds of a feather, as they say.

Look at the way Soj2 was. If Artifacts were distributed I would bet that one or two would be with Jurdex's core group. One or two with Mplor's core group, and a couple scattered amongst the high level 'free lancers' that helped out everyone from time to time.

Anyway, I ask you to open your mind a little bit and explore the topic and the possible future, not the past. not on old ill feelings. You've been dumped before, right? didn't stop you from dating again did it? Exactly. We dated some hot artifacts, but they were BAD for us. bad bad bad. so we dumped 'em. biatches! ANd we went single a while. Guess what? ITs time to get back on the horse. With more knowlege of what to avoid, we can do this.

Angry.
Tired.
Lost.

[Jurdex]

OMG, Waelos, that is priceless.

Artifacts are like girlfriends.. I can see it now.. they hum, vibrate in your hands, take over your mind, and make you feel and do things you'd never do without them by your side..

Hmmm.

Intriguing.

Jurdex

[Elseenas]

::amused smile::

[Waelos]

*laughs out loud* Good spin, Jurd! No pun intended of course! laugh! (thanks, I needed to laugh today!)

LaughingLost

[Lyt]

Waelos,

You think I am some sort of retard or something? Or do you just have a hard time typing normally? Maybe its all your special ed classes *jk*

Anyways, I did a quick search of the SOS2 posts using keyword "Unique" and came up with a couple of posts from Miax stating his position on artifacts etc. Read #4966 and #4827. Here he states quite clearly that he learned the mistakes of artifacts and powerful weapons in the past. He also states that the only unique items that will be in the mud will be regular items which will be restrung and handed out after quests.

Back to your idea of "slightly" better items instead of the spanky stuff of old....if you want "slightly" better items then write a quest that its available to all. Lets face it....the worst thing about the old artifacts is that they were handed out by the immorts, and we all know it was not an impartial system in which they were distributed. If you want better stuff, figure out a tough quest and then keep your mouth shut so that everyone and their brother (or sister) doesn't run out and profit from your hard work. (This is just a general statement, and not directed at you Waelost.)

Would you like fries with that?

Lyt

[Ragorn]

Way to H-scroll the board, waelos.

*WHAP*

- Ragorn

[Joth]

By the way are artifacts going to be in the game?

Anyway I am all for artifacts. Specially if its a god run quest. It helps with RPing too. And helps with legends. I think best time I ever mud was when CS and Eye was around. Hell, friend of mine and I writing story about it.

Eye Aeternum:
CS (Kurz, Toddrick, Morkenon) trying to bring Tiamat into the world, and Morkenon undead army is helping them gets items need to summon tiamat. Eye stops them before this happens .

Eye Aeternum:Exodus
CS defeats Eye Aeternum and destroys "Sanctuary of Enternity" (Eye's Guild hall), by army of dragons. Kurz and Toddrick got about 200 dragon eggs from Tiamat, brought Morkenon back from the dead from the dead as an Archlich, and spanked Eye: Joth, Jerra, Draaz and Kalsor, Deidrit, Lariae, Cerze all die.

Eye Aeternum: Ressurrection

Eye Aeternum comes back with leadership of Modu, Jukar, and Rithar, Maelgwyn, Kasula and others, basicly the (new genera) and defeat CS .

Right now we or should say my friend is working on Exodus.

[Galok Icewolf]

Artifacts of old bad...

Artifacts that have slight advantages good...

So 10d6 10/10 DI, Sense Life, Fly procs group full heal on command and procs inferno is bad.

a (based on soj2 damage/hit system of average of 3/3 or so) 4/4 4d4 DI procs cure crit on command, and procs (something like 6th circle so it goes through globe) is not bad.

I think alot of people agree. Shev, or Cyric, D2, Miax, please squash my dream of every being able to have a new gen artifact.

*pouts quietly*

[Ruggak]

Welcome to the way of the world. This is coming from a high lvl charater that did not have a artifact the last time around. Because simply put I never had the time. I did not notice mud politics, We grouped we killed. The charaters that had the artifacts were the ones who knew the game and had the time to get them they should not be punished because not everyone can get the stuff that is the point. It gives higher lvl charaters something to strive for. Keeps the game interesting. If you don't want a artifact fine. Don't punish those who do. Not fornothing I was on the evil team that almost killed Tiamat with no artifacts.
I still say the game was crashed by the Goodies. )

[Ruhr]

Re: someone's post about smart artifacts taking over the owner based on DnD rules.

They're called "ego weapons" and you're generally safe as long as your intelligence is higher than the item's int.

[Mplor]

Ever read the Drizzt books and imagine yourself as one of the unnamed warriors who fought in the realms alongside Drizzt, but was not deemed worthy of special notice by History? Of course not. We were all Drizzt.

Unique Artifacts mean that not everyone who plays Sojourn will be a Hero like Drizzt. Artifacts are Sojourn's glass ceiling.

The MUD balance issue is a red herring.

::The unattainable motivates some even while frustrating others.

The best argument for Artifacts is the motivation they provide to many players to become the best they can be by devoting great energies to the game.

The best argument against Artifacts is that many of us play this game on some level to live our fantasy of being a Hero like Drizzt, Bilbo, or Rand. Allowing a only a limited number of players (who are not us) to achieve the ultimate status in the game may detract from the enjoyment of our fantasy.

My feelings:

The existence of something nearly impossible to attain yet ultimately enviable made Sojourn more fun for me. It may be just as legitimate to say that the same feeling makes Sojourn less fun for other, different sorts of players.

Mp

(The owners and editors of this publication are obliged to disclose that they have in times past personally benefited from the views expressed here.)

[Lyt]

Problems with artifacts:

1) Who decides who gets them? If its the immorts then it is not unbiased in the decision making, no matter what you may say. And if its a popular vote thing, then that too is biased because we all know that most elections can be/are rigged.

2) How many artifacts should there be? When do you stop handing them out to people? Whoever doesn't make the cutoff then doesn't have it fair.

3) When do the number of artifacts in the game make the game unbalanced zone-wise? As soon as several artifacts are in, then the zones all need to be "upgraded" as they were before, which just makes these zones that much tougher on the groups who don't have artifacts.

Once artifacts go in, the mud becomes that of the haves vs. the have-nots. The have-nots are then at a permanent disadvantage zone-wise, and they will never have the chance of becoming the haves, unless all of the people with artifacts quit out, and we know that doesn't happen.

Lyt

[Tempus]

Your all under arrest for desecrating a corpse. Whose corpse? THE DEAD HORSE'S!!!

[cherzra]

haha

[Diatem]

I'd like to see Artifacts brought back, it gave me something to envy, something to strive for, a goal...taking them out, removes that goal...once you've done every zone, once you've gotten everything you can, there really isn't much more to strive for except that one thing that makes you unique...be it an artifact, or be it something else.

Mplor...what you say is true, not everyone in the books has a spanky artifact, or some powerful item crafted by long dead gods. However, even in the books, there were Uniques. Items that were margionally better than average, but only that person had them. the Helm of Bob, or the Sword of Bob...it was Bobs sword, and nobody else had it...and anyone that saw it would know it was Bob.

It may have not been fair how they were given out before. But life isn't fair, and don't expect it to be here either. Its a game, play it as best as you can. You will generate more fond memories messing around and bitching about "who got what" and "he is so favored" than about "guess who did Jot again" :P

-Dia/Temg

[santego]

First I'll say that "unique items" are great. I remember that people would keep something because it was frigging weird, not because it had power. I WISH I hadn't lost my brown-noser badge. *pout*

Anyway, here's a surefire way to put in artifacts. Make anyone who possesses them pkillable as long as they possess it. That is, if you take up Lloths Laughable Weapon of Infinite destruction, then jo-blow can type "kill santego" right out and out. This would because of the "ego" of the weapon, which makes others wish to possess it. Anyway, only a fool would use a relic/artifact very often.

[Faerwynd]

Hmmm, that'd be a great idea, except for the fact that if you possessed an artifact you would ALWAYS be one against 50. That is unless your friends could assist you. That'd be tricky as heck to code.

See what I'm saying. You can't pkill others, but anyone and their mother could pkill you. You wouldn't keep your artifact for long

[Jurdex]

The fact no imms have responded to this lengthy thread probably tells you something.

Jurdex

[santego]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jurdex:
<B>The fact no imms have responded to this lengthy thread probably tells you something.

Jurdex</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

heh i don't mind if the gods don't care about this thread Its more of a concept thing with me.... Anyway, to answer the problem of not keeping your artifact very long, my answer is a resounding "exactly". The idea is that only a fool would mess with such a powerful item, because he could be pkilled by anyone/everyone - all at once. He COULD tool around town though, in sight of the guards, and sport his artifact for RP reasons. Just wouldn't help him much unless he was really sneakky about it.

[Jenera]

After reading this long long thread because it piqued my interest....

*applaud Corth*
*applaud Waelos*

I feel exactly or as close as possible to you guys on the subject
You don't even want to know how many times i walked around drooling all over spanky players *drool jurdex*

Ive never even held an artifact
heh, i had a HELL of a fun time playing though
I roleplayed, flirted, died repeatedly, had decent eq that at the end i actually EARNED
i never did understand powermudders..if i was a mean person id say that it because their real lives suck just like mine and it feels good to ROXOR in a mud but im not mean

i personally like mudding because i can drown myself in my imagination and vivid pictures and because i have no friends in rl at all and i think of you players as my family

alot of you complain because its hard for you to get items that other players have because they play 10 times the hours you get to but hey, im sure you are used to that in rl
you get rewarded for time and effort and success
i got a raise in my last job because i stayed 4 hours late everyday to help them pack away christmas stuff and ship it back to the warehouse..a dollar more an hour
i made lots of enemies and was relieved when i was let go
same case i think

Jennie

[Jurdex]

Jenera, this is just my opinion, but it sounds like you had what no artifact or unique item will assure anyone - a great time.

Jurdex

[Astansus]

A name from the past...

Been some three years since I played here but it was fun to come back and read some posts. I skipped some of them but Faerwynd asked earlier in this thread if evils got any quests and I didn't see anyone answering. I was in one long quest as an evil run by Lloth. We never got to finish it but toward the end of it we were supposed to invade the greyelf hometown. There we were to kill the elven princess and bring back her head to Morlentar, master drow assassin of D'aerthe.
It was alot of fun but quests aren't everything. They were something to look forward to though and some people that were more liked got to go on more quests. I think they add to the atmosphere and they were very well written. The quests tended to be huge though and I don't really see the need for that. The artifacts are also a nice addition but they were way too powerful. The power is more acceptable if it could be lost but since there will never be player killing here they should be toned down abit.

An answer to Joth about an earlier post on 'guild wars' with the Crimson Sigil and the Eye. That's a nice story but that really doesn't work here since you can't fight. It's like when I started sometime late -94 and I killed a mob another person was killing and he started spamming 'You are #1 on my list of people to kill when they add pkill!' heh.


Astansus, Renegade of Bloodstone
Adept /><\ Dark Alliance

[moritheil]

belle and iaken - So? You have a real life. In exchange, you give up MUD time, and MUD opportunities. Getting an artifact will be one of those opportunities you give up to get dates/have a decent gpa/work a job. If you don't feel that's a satisfactory trade, then just ignore those other things and MUD more.

I think ego weapons were a later explanation of artifact posession in the AD&D rules.

Nilan - good point, everyone would do Tia if they had an arti, but the moronic ones *still* wouldn't succeed

And my silly idea for Artifacts:


<h3>make the user have to perma-RP! *cackle*</h3></p>
They can take off and act non-RP (since it's necessary sometimes), but while doing so they can't use the artifact.

[Jenera]

You are right Jurdex
I had a kick ass time
I still bother my bf with some of my great mud memories (he's an EQ whore )
i dont care if im wearing newbie stuff that crumbles when im 40 this boot
im still going to have fun
im going to explore and die and die and die (sense a pattern here )
you clerics better get rez fast! im going to need it

Jennie

[Trogar]

Wow what a long thread! This is an old thread so I hope someone reads this :P

I can tell you precisely the reason why there will be no artifacts. Its very largely due to the fact that often when people get artifacts, it goes to their head. And this includes me and other people in this list.

All in all I think artifacts are a great idea. I think Corth said it best when he said it gave a sense of history.

I also agree with Thruar, the final artifacts at the end of Toril were too powerful. The game was very unbalanced, and as a result new zones like manscorpion were created.

I think the artifact distribution was fair. Unfortunatly, the leader of the other goodie group disappeared, and that changed things. It changed a lot of things. It was kinda neat after that, as for example Thruar and I were able to be friends again instead of warrior rivals.

I do have one really good example of the mud being unbalaced. I very specifically remember one Cave City run near the end where there was me, Thruar, ilshad, Jurdex, Mplor, and the rest of the group. I remember this group because I just charged the zone CARELESSLY and we somehow kicked the crap out of the zone without breaking a sweat. We didn't even bother with bashers One of the most fun trips I ever had. But this was kinda when I realized how unbalanced the mud was.

It wasn't really the artis though, it was the EQ available in the mud. I also think the other major unbalancing thing was the monk haste item. That really was a sweet item.

Personally, the unbalanceness of the game never really bothered me, but I acknoledge it was there. My philosophy was that I served my time in newbie land, and I was going to have fun while I had the time. I knew at the time it was unbalanced. The mud did need to be wiped and readjusted, it was just due.

Tro

[Teila]

Heya people Long time no talk

Im gonna have to agree with Ilshadrial on this one. Keep the artifacts in the game, just make players have to do one hell of a hard quest for them.. I guarentee 3/4 of the people complaining they dont want them in will give up on getting them if you make the quest hard enough.

The only problem i see with Artifacts is that nobody ever loses them unless a God takes it from them or they quit the game all together....

And on the total flip side, stop whining if you dont have one, and be glad the ppl with one are there to help you along and teach you enough that one day you might get one

Teila aka Catalya
-=The never going to have a title cleric=-

[Tilandal]

Hmm I think artifacts are cool but the problem was they could become unballencing. Artifacts are fine as long as they are on par with other items found on the mud.