Menzo EVER going to be done?

[Lokke]

Ohh the neverending promise of actually getting a REAL city in the UD. I would be soooooooo Amazed if Miax actually got it done in the year or so the mud was down. Would be awesome for him since its been his baby for so long, he could have easily asked someone to finish what he had started.
Just hoping for the best!

Lazz

[cherzra]

I'm not sure if you read Miax' post when this BBS was still at its infancy, but in case you didn't, check out his post on the lower half of this page and start drooling:

http://www.sojourn3.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000127.html

[Galkar]

I was just wondering how this will affect the number of goodies that play... how many will switch to play in the infamous Menzoberranzan?

[santego]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Lokke:
<B>Ohh the neverending promise of actually getting a REAL city in the UD.
Lazz</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dude, Gloomhaven is a frigging tight little city. Every mob interacts with you, and there's a quest around every corner. It is a REAL city in UD. But yeah I can't wait for menzo.

[Gormal]

Makes you wonder if goodies will ever get such a thing exclusive to them. It's really too bad imho that one of the allegedly greatest zones will be unavailible to half the mud. Personally I hate to see the UD zones and dk vault and such restricted. Hell evils can even pretty much wander all over the elvish islands:P </whine>


------------------
Gormal FaCtOr!

Gormal Stoneforge
Kildran T'sarith

[santego]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gormal:
<B>Makes you wonder if goodies will ever get such a thing exclusive to them. It's really too bad imho that one of the allegedly greatest zones will be unavailible to half the mud.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Evil's can't go into WD or MH or any of the other goodie cities. And if I WANTED to (which I sometimes do), I'd make a human or something and go slumming in the goodie towns. Just make an evil char for "fun" and then check out their zone. If you like it enough you'll stay a drow. And by the way, we can walk around goodie lands so long as we dodge the bounty hunters and don't mind being blind 1/2 the time. You have pretty much the same dangers in UD except for the fact that YOUR agro mobs are where they are supposed to be, and don't kinda leap out at you unexpected (like when you are in a hurry and hop off the ferry to see the paladork and his nerdy playmates .

[Glaman]

I think that I am going to play a drow, just to play in menzo (when it is finished) and because i have always been a fan of rogues, even from my D&D playing days. and drow rogues just rule. Plus, i feel that a drow rogue is the evilest of evils. Never ever trust a drow rogue...they will stab you in the back as soon as you turn around.

Glaman, soon to be Drauz

[Nilan]

Cool Glaman, man

Come join me

Nilan

[Tzat]

Re santego's post

True, evils cant go in the goodie cities...but is there anything in there that would make them really want to? Menzo seems like it will have all kinds of cool high level areas with cool mobs and stuff that goodies wont be able to get at at all. I think that was the main thrust behind the post you were responding to...

[santego]

I'll agree that I think goodie cities aren't as fun as evil cities, to me at least. And from the sounds eminating from miax it looks like menzo is going to rule.
Now, since we can't very well have goodies running around evil cities that leaves us with 2 options:

1) make evil towns suck
or
2) balance out the coolness of both goodies AND evil towns.

1 is obviously silly, but 2 requires new zone makers. I don't think old zonemakers would really want to go back to those old cities and give them face-lifts. Sooo.... I think the gods would totally appreciate it if someone (not me made a really frigging awsome goodie town, something to make menzo feel short and plain.

[Galkar]

Someone write a zone for Luskan and make the wizards tower there a high level zone, you could do all kindsa stuff with that, plus, it would put a town between WD and MH.... or maybe make a zone for Ten Towns... now that has the potential of being huge.

[cherzra]

GN rules

Wasn't neverwinter in progress atm? I recall Cyric asking the author to contact him because the zone was almost finished. It was on the testmud for a long time, but I think he found the author. Dunno if he resumed work on it, though.

[Malacar]

I think Cyric lost track of who was doing it.. Not sure if someone picked it back up, but last I heard, Luskan needs to go in before Neverwinter(for docks, etc, it's the major port to the Neverwinter area)... It'd be awesome if/when this goes in though.



------------------
Malacar - French kissin midgets, and damn proud of it. Oh yeah... My comments can offend you now, I don't care anymore. Have a day.

[izarek]

The neverwinter guy popped up on egroups a couple weeks after cyric asked if anyone saw him. I sent cyric an email, and I'm sure many others did too, so my guess is they've contacted each other.

Izzy

[Lyt]

I have been saying all along that there are way more things and places for evils to go than the goodies get. Now once Menzo and other evils zones get finished, its going to be a joke to play a goodie. Menzo is going to be huge, and Miax said that there will be no need for a drow to ever leave the city, as he will be able to get all of his levels and eq there, plus a ton of quests etc.

My gripe all along has been that there needs to be a whole lot of new zones that are goodie only. They don't have to be flagged as hometowns either. Just make if so that something similar to the invasion alarm goes off if they enter, followed by a never ending supply of high level warrior mobs that come and kick their butts.

Please balance out the zone issue. Evils have access to everything we do, plus all of UD that we don't. They have way more quests for awesome eq than goodies get. How about a little bit of balance on this?

[Tinnel]

Hrmmm, I think that part of the excitement of the evil towns and soon more notably Menzo is the intrigue that goes along with them simply being evil towns. Living with, fighting, dodging, and questing through the absolute scum of the world. Just because the goodly races of the land choose to live their pompous little lifestyles of safety and security doesn't mean we should penalize the evils . Goodly places are just by the nature relatively not exciting and neat. You could make WD just as big and beautiful "looking" as I'm sure Menzo will be but it will still be a goodly city, devoid of monsters and social structures that offer the RP environment you might find in the UD.

Not saying you guys should get ripped off because of that, but I think the best solution if you see this as a problem is either A) play where you think you'll have the most fun B) or contribute to the game where you think it will be the most fun i.e. write your own "Menzo" type zone for your side.

That is all.

T

One more thing....I could very well be way of base here, but wasn't the original concept that evils were put there nearly solely to give the advanced players some way of furthering their challenge and experience? Like I said I may be off base, but is balance really the issue? If you want those things step up to the challenge and take them. I think that for "some" of the rigors we go through it's nice to see extra neet stuff. If you look at it from the "evils bigger challenge" point of view it's natural that you play goodie to it's max and go wow there's even cooler stuff to be done and gotten so you advance to evil? Again that came out sounding off base and I guess of subject but just a point. I lied too.

THAT is all


[This message has been edited by Tinnel (edited 04-25-2001).]

[Lyt]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Tinnel:
<B>One more thing....I could very well be way of base here, but wasn't the original concept that evils were put there nearly solely to give the advanced players some way of furthering their challenge and experience? Like I said I may be off base, but is balance really the issue? If you want those things step up to the challenge and take them. I think that for "some" of the rigors we go through it's nice to see extra neet stuff. If you look at it from the "evils bigger challenge" point of view it's natural that you play goodie to it's max and go wow there's even cooler stuff to be done and gotten so you advance to evil? Again that came out sounding off base and I guess of subject but just a point. I lied too.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This was always supposed to be the case, but it never has been. There were several other threads on the BBS about the difficulty of being an evil. It was pretty much agreed apon that other than at early levels and right after a wipe when everyone sucks, about the roughest part of being an evils was running out of the town when they are nekkid. After people get some eq and levels, they don't have it nearly as rough as the disclaimer says they are going to get when they roll up the character.

Were they ever to make it that way, so that the life of an evil were extremely difficult, and life really sucked for them, I would have no problem with giving them greater rewards like cool evil only zones and evil only quests etc. But as the mud is now, they are just 2 separate sides of the coin both going after the same things. Both sides now have all of the major classes, and as to which side people play its just a matter of preference. So I feel that as long as things remain the way they are, give the goodies something that they can have all to themselves.

If you notice all of the trading between goodies and evils last wipe, it was always the evils getting stuff and then trading it to the goodies. There wasn't a heck of a lot of eq that the goodies could get that the evils couldn't, other than some hometown stuff (and most of that had race or align restrictions.)

Lyt/Vaaz



[This message has been edited by Lyt (edited 04-25-2001).]

[Tinnel]

Valid points Lyt. But I also think that from RP aspects my points in the first parts of the post are still somewhat correct. I also think that the Campaign project might help some of this as alot of people on both sides will be chasing that, but you do have a point when it comes to things that evils can do that goodies can't, primarily eq I would say, as you brought up on the trade issue. But also consider that coming up with "ideas" on how to do it will be alot more productive and accepted then just "balance this please".

It could be as simple as a couple fresh new nice zones that were goodie only in some sense as you suggested and putting some decent well sought after EQ here or there on some mobs in goodie towns.

Again, points are valid, but some of this is kinda coming out as Miax put a ton of time and effort into something that was meant to be for evils only, and it's becoming a balance issue. But anyone else can do the same for goodies

T

[Treladian]

Tinnel, goodie hometowns are only MOSTLY peaceful places. There's still plenty of intrigue, just not as noticeable. There are lots of secret societies and groups in the realms that operate in goodie hometowns. This ranges from small things like underground temples devoted to gods like Cyric or other evil gods to actual underground (and sometimes not so underground) groups like the Zhentarim, Cult of the Dragon, Shadow Thieves, and Red Wizards that would be lurking around unnoticed. And there's the occasional dungeon under a city like Undermountain in WD. Just cause WD is mostly peaceful doesn't mean it's cause all the intrigue is gone. It's just still in its intrigue stage.

[Lokke]

For you goodies who think you cant go anywhere in the UD you just need to try. The only places you really would have a problem with is the hometowns. Which is exactly the same as evils for good towns. You CAN get to all the UD zones, just have to navigate a hometown to get there. Just as evils have to navigate a hometown to get to a neat zone in MH. I like that fact that goodies think they cant do any zones in UD, means evils get them all to themselves . Menzo is going to be like WD, huge place with vast rooms/mobs/shops etc. To me it sounds larger, which it probably will be as are many new hometowns, usually larger than a previous one. As for which places goodies can go and evils cant, and a place I would love to go is GN. Its new, it has awesome EQ quests. Its a trade-off really, you take the good with the bad. Try not to complain about it too much until you actually give it a TRUE shot and try to get to those zones near or through those RaceWar hometowns.

Lazz the raxx 'ummm?