Bard Fixes & Ideas

Archive of the Sojourn3 Ideas Forum.
Caedym
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Bard Fixes & Ideas

Postby Caedym » Mon Jan 29, 2001 9:19 am

I posted this idea way back on soj2, not sure exactly which board it was, but pretty sure it was an appropriate one. It's just a little skill, called ASCERTAIN, that would make bards a little more fun, and demonstrate more of their 'wordly' knowledge. Since I was one of the three only full time bards playing on Soj2, talking about having a bard as prime-O char here, I figure ya might actually listen to my input on the class. Maybe?

I loved playing this class since I'm so heavy into RPG (eventhough 90% of the mud isn't), but if the long needed fixes don't get put in, I'm sorry to say it, but I have zero interest in coming back.

/
ASCERTAIN
Applied skill.

Syntax: Ascertain <item>
Aggressive: No
Class/Level: Bard 15th

This skill allows a bard to call upon his worldly knowledge while
handling an item to ascertain its place of origin. Successful use of
the skill will designate from which lands the desired item originated,
failure meaning an error has been incorporated into the calculations
and the wrong lands identified as the source. Increased skill ability
allows for more powerful magical items to be identified, as well as
higher chances of successful identification.
\
-Coder Notes-
(This skill can be based on the same names mortals already see for zones
Under the ‘world zones’ command. There could also be a small
percentage chance that each failure could result in a false reading,
whereupon the character gets a random zone name plugged into
a successful reading.
Note: NO Zone Numbers, ONLY the name.
Give this command a slight delay, similar to room “search”ing.)
\
Attempting Skill Scripting
(to player)
You attempt to divine what lands <item> heralds from.
(other players)
<player> begins pondering deeply over <item> as <he/she> handles it.
\
Success Skill Use, or False Reading Scripting
(to player)
You believe <item> was forged in the lands of <zone name>.
(other players)
<player> gains a twinkle in <his/her> eye as <he/she> looks at <item>.
\
Failure Scripting
(to player)
You are unable to ascertain from which lands <item> originated.
(other players)
<player> appears befuddled on the origins of <item>.


It'll be interesting to hear from Murthir and Kolara if they're reading this BBS.

PS. Yes Shevy, I STILL would like to charm Splint shield mobs. Squirrels and birds is boring for a 40th level bard ya know. :P
And I don't know why we aren't allowed to sing in combat, it's not like we're gonna make a difference.

BTW- I hope to god you guys fix the bug that kept us from leading charmed mobs out of their zones and past !mob rooms.

Caedym Shadowhock (Master Merchant v2.o & Nightmare Bard)
tsaej
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Postby tsaej » Mon Jan 29, 2001 11:09 pm

Ascertain would be an interesting skill, but I'm curious as to how this would really make the class more popular? The mage spell 'locate' already does this function to an extent. You also mentioned "long needed fixes", what exactly needed fixing (other than the mentioned song of charming situation?). I played a bard for several years myself (not so much on Soj 2 however) and I would be curious as to your thoughts on what was wrong with the class? Btw I totally agree with you, the class needs to be upgraded. I posted some of my ideas on SOS2 under "Bards" if your interested. I love the class and I hope you play sojourn 3...the mud needs all the bards it can get :)

Good Journeys

Tsaej Mallorn
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Postby moritheil » Wed Jan 31, 2001 8:55 am

The bards were always an underappreciated group on Sojourn... Few people noticed them, but in situations like on Evermeet, where every last person on counts, (or when I was out of heals) they could really turn the tide for a battle or CR. Maybe bards can be given one of the new rogue skills [a lower one, no assassinating bards plz] to help entice more people to play?

For example, I'd think that a bard, having seen all kinds of places and knowing all kinds of trivia, would be able to disguise themselves fairly well (yes I know that's an old skill, just an example).
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Postby Jegzed » Wed Jan 31, 2001 11:03 am

Put it this way.

Bards are real powerful, and they were always needed. I zoned a shitload with my bard last wipe, (Murthir level 48 dwarf bard) and I had not problem getting groups.

The thing however, bards are BORING to play. Just sitting there keeping song up is not exactly fun, even a mindless ranger is more fun with typing "assist elemental" :)

/Jegzed
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Postby Guest » Wed Jan 31, 2001 8:59 pm

Personally, I'm in agreement. Bards were a great addition to certain groups and made things a lot easier. There are steps and ideas to making bards more playable and less "series of triggers" bots that they became. I'm not going to tell you what, just wait and see.

And, actually the "bug" that prevents certain charmed mobs from leaving their zones was done intentionally. It gives the area creator a certain flexibility when they're writing a low level zone. If they don't flag the mob to prevent them from leaving their zone, it would be a haven for squids, bards, or anyone with the charm ability to go and grab an army of low level mobs, leaving true newbies with nothing to kill.

As for singing in combat, you try to play an instrument and carry a tune while someone's hacking at you with a sword. If you're attacking something, or being attacked, your focus is going to be on NOT DYING, not whether you're playing in the right key or not.
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Postby Caedym » Wed Jan 31, 2001 11:05 pm

I'm pretty surprised you used that reason Kia. On your theory here and following its logic, how can anyone cast a spell in combat when "If you're attacking something, or being attacked, your focus is going to be on NOT DYING, not whether you're.." ..casting an intricate spell requiring complex hand gestures (like playing a lute or lyre), handling material components (like holding a flute), and reciting a series of difficult words (kinda like song lyrics)?

Now we know that mages and cleric types on Soj can cast even while tanking a mob, as long as they avoid the bash, they cast. At the very least it'd be nice if Bards could sing if in combat but not tanking or bashed.

It's just a shame that songs aren't as mentally and physically taxing on the individual as spells which completely remove themselves from a person's memory once cast.

Sorry if my sarcasm is a little thick tonight don't take it personally I'm just being playful, but I do think it's great that they are finally being noticed. But sincerely, if they still aren't going to be allowed to sing in combat in some form, it's still going to be just as boring as before. And yes you will continue to see maybe only one or two or three fulltime bard players beyond 40th on Soj3 like on Soj2, until they get tired of it and roll something else. I won't be waiting around for it to happen this time sorry to say, if it's not there when Beta happens, I just won't be there. It's just too boring. And people wonder why I spend almost all my online time on OOC yacking or on boards or other places yapping my big mouth. So shut me up by putting us back in the action.

My two Zhents,

Caedym Shadowhock =)
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Postby Faerwynd » Thu Feb 01, 2001 1:31 am

I kinda agree now that Caedym mentions the casting thing. I would say though, if you are singing while tanking/assisting, that you don't get any attacks, just like if you're chanting a spell. You can see the tank condition, etc. but you don't actually get to ATTACK. That might actually be a good and bad thing at the same time. As it is now, you can attack for three rounds, disengage enough to sing a verse, and then re-assist for another three rounds. I don't know who invented it, but it became known as the "steel song" by some of the more veteran bards.

Anyways, I'd agree with Caedym and say "let singing work like casting". It's just as magical as a spell, just more artistic, right? =) I mean just because you get bashed by a mob, doesn't mean you have to ATTACK it when the bash makes you aggro (especially if the mob misses said bash). Of course, bashes should work normally if they connect (i.e. inturrupting the song).

Tom (Jaeb Faerwynd of old, admirer of Halladan Feyamane, companion of Kelemon Cindrantis, bard by trade, budding poet and story teller extraordinare)
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Postby Bibbe » Thu Feb 01, 2001 11:01 pm

Heh it's a tricky thing to balance RP with fun and playability.

I tried to fantasy a Dwarf Bard. What does he do? sing? perhaps he blows a horn at most.

And heya Tsaej!! =)
Played a lot with you in Wyrm, cool to see you around. How's the coffee? *snicker*

- <font color="green">Bibbe Curlfoot</font><font color="pink">- Little Enchanter - </font><font color="blue">Order</font><font color="gray">of the</font><font color="blue">Wyrm</font>
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Postby Caedym » Fri Feb 02, 2001 6:37 am

Hey Tsaej, good to see ya around. I remember chewing the leather with ya every now and then. Hope to hear more from ya. Now lemme respond to ya bro. My previous post mind you was just to call attention to my beloved class. The proposed skill ascertain was not intended to be a class defining skill putting them in the ‘needed for groups’ category. Not at all. It was simply a nice little idea, that wouldn't take that much effort to plug in, which I felt would be a nice little RP skill addition to the class is all. Also note that at no time am I proposing these ideas or changes to make the class more popular, but rather more enjoyable to play, and useful on the MUD.

Although these go hand in hand, its not my intention to populate Soj3 with bards, but it would be nice to have at least enough around to make another Bard Guild this time you could say. Between you playing your alt most the time and Murthir always as Jegzed, it got pretty boring with just me and Kolara. Sure we spent tons of time with any little bards that sprang up, and did our hardest to promote them amount the players, it still was a lonely time at the Bard meetings if you get my drift heh.

Now this post here is the first set of my humble suggestions to improving the existing songs with subtle changes, deleting one by combining it with another, and a new song suggestion entirely. I hope you enjoy what you read and if at all possible, come up with some other ideas as well. Perhaps some to cover areas about their mechanics I missed or hadn’t thought of that still won’t make them a power class, just a heck of a lot more user friendly shall we say? In any event, if these song changes went in, I’d be more then ecstatic to say the least. Furthermore, I’m working on two additional posts. One that covers their skills, and one that covers the topic of adding ANSCI color to their versus. As for now, here is what I’d like to see done to the existing Songs part One. I’m going to have to learn how to post here in ANSCI colors first. (any help on this endeavor would be mucho appreciated =)


Modified Bard Songs

Song of Healing –
Have strength also dependant on how high the Bard’s Charisma is, and if Good Aligned
Just allow the Heals to be handled like a cleric’s Vitality spells instead, allowing bards to
pump players for One extra verse worth of HPs beyond their HP maximum
(Note that this would be significantly less then any clerical Vits)

Song of Revelation –
At 45th level also grants Farsee

Song of Flight –
Increase move Vig amount per verse – its pretty puny even at high levels
and allow to work like healing above but for moves instead
up to one verse worth past max a players maximum move limit

Song of Charm –
Allow Bard to Charm the Bard’s level in mob levels but no mob level can
ever exceed the bard’s current level
A 50th Bard can Charm 49 1st level mobs Or 1 49th level mob

Song of Sleep –
Make this song into a lullaby and therefor not an aggressive skill
combine the effects of Song of Forgetfulness with this song

Song of Forgetfulness
See Song of Sleep Above

Song of Calming –
At 40th also causes effects similar to Slowness even if mob is not calmed

Song of Cowardice –
At 35th level also causes Fear – mob flees for duration, then returns once it wears off

Song of Harm –
Have strength also dependant on how low the Bard’s Charisma is and if Evil Aligned
At 45th also causes effects similar to Ray of Enfeeblement as well as damage

Song of Protection –
Effects below are cumulative with the existing ones
At 35th + missile shield
At 40th + minor globe Duration = 1 Round of Attacks only

Song of Rage New Song
Below effects are cumulative, so a 39th bard’s Rage song grants +5Str and +5Con
At 20-29th level bestows +5str
At 30-39th level bestows +5con
At 40-44th level bestows +5Max_str
At 45-49th+ level bestows +5Max_con
At 50+ level bestows +Berserker Rage
<i>Berserker Rage = Work this just like the old berserker class ability ‘berserk’ including
the inability to FLEE, auto randomly attack uncontrolled mobs when not engaged
in combat, and also disallow ANY PLAYER or FOLLOWER the ability to cast spells
The Berserker Rage aspect would have zero effect on any mobs to prevent abuse
This includes pets. Don’t have the IS_PLAYER flag, sorry no dice
This song would of course be aggressive to mobs</i>

Yes I agree entirely that giving players berserk rages is way powerful, but, I also believe it’s entirely suicidal since you can’t have anyone casting beneficial spells on you of any sort. No player spells at all in fact, yet the mobs can do so freely. You get no Heals, no G-heals, no Stones, no Scales, no Globes, no Hastes, no NOTHING, but you can suck up as many mob cyclones, dooms, fireballs, lightning bolts et all as you can take. And you get to watch as they heal themselves and beat you down, while you can’t disengage or flee for the life of you. Are the positives still greater then the negatives? I see this song only being used in rare cases where you only have warriors and a bard. How often you see that in regular 45+ groups? Let alone a 50 crew. But it sure as the Nine Hells be fun to watch! =) Ooo I’m just drooling over the RP stories such events would inspire!

My two Zhents,

Caedym Shadowhock –Unholy Prophet of Nightmares-
(I’m a bard who specialized in Horror stories Berk!)
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Postby cherzra » Fri Feb 02, 2001 8:18 am

Hmm one side note - charming a level 49 mob? These would have in excess of 17000hp or something I guess..
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Postby Nokie » Fri Feb 02, 2001 1:39 pm

When Duris turned song of charming on, my Centaur Bard was able to charm very tough level 50 guard mobs and destroy other players in PvP.
high-level charmies causes too many headaches I think..

Nokie!
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Postby Faerwynd » Fri Feb 02, 2001 2:59 pm

Song of Cowardice already does that I think. Makes mobs flee.

Song of Revelation definitely has farsee at high levels already too. At least it did back in my bard days.

I like the Song of Rage too. In my Bard glory days we did brass with 5 warriors and 1 bard. An ogre a troll 2 barbarian and 1 dwarf warriors and Jaeb. Casters schmasters, we "ronked". A skill like this one would bring back the "skald" type of bard (warrior/poet) which is what I always RP'ed Jaeb to be anyways (I never did get any bagpipes darnit). You know what I'm talking about, the scottish dudes who actually went into battle with the warriors instead of singing about what they heard in a tavern (though battles always make for good drinking songs).

Good call on Song of Sleep and Song of Forgetfulness too. Two very underused songs with great potential.

Just thought I'd chime in this morning =) off to a meeting.

*hiccup*

Jaeb
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Postby tsaej » Sat Feb 03, 2001 4:19 am

Heya Bibbe :) Man its been a while...I hope life is treating you well :) -hugs-

Some really cool ideas Caedym keep em coming :) I understand your idea about ascertain better now...I agree it would be cool to play with. I especially like song of rage for the + stat aspect...not sure if berserk would be realistic for the mud or not, but having a song that increased player stats could definately work.

Now for some of my thoughts about the bard class...:) -cackle- it is fairly long, but please bear with me :)

I first rolled Tsaej in late spring of 1996. I was new to the mud and didn't know much about the various classes. I thought that with a bard I could fight and sing heal at the same time, boy did I have a lot to learn. Over the months and later years that I played Tsaej I learned to love the bard class, and I learned a lot about being a bard. Something I learned early on was that bards are extremely popular on the lower levels (10-25). The reason for this is because they heal reasonably well for a group with half decent eq, and they don't have mem times. As a result, they were a prime choice for warriors looking to power level. This trend was also highly apparent in S2. At the beginning, bards were all the rage, because there weren't any high level clerics kicking around yet. This also meant that getting to level 25-28 was relatively easy and fast. However, it was around that time that the leveling began to slow down. This isn't a bad thing by the way, no class should have it easy all the way to the top. Once you hit level 30 grouping became easy again for a time, because you were asked to go to high level zones. This was quite good considering most classes don't get asked for such zones until much higher levels. However, this excitement tapered off because other than high level zones no one really wanted your services. As a result, you basically stop leveling. This doesn't mean you can't have fun though, I kept myself busy practicing my songs and helping lower level people. However, most people I saw playing bards simply quit the class because it was too boring. I remember being asked a few times, why do you play a bard? They are sooo boring and useless! I would just smile and respond with. Perhaps, but I love em anyways. Not everyone shares this sentiment however. I heard many times the bard class being bashed because it was so easy to play, and didn't take any skill. Perhaps it doesn't take much skill to play the class, but to play it well you do need to know what your doing. Part of the reason the class was perceived to be so easy is because they basically only ever did a couple of things over and over and over again. Play song of heal and on the higher levels song of flight. The only other songs ever used were song of heroism, and song of revelation. The bard had twelve songs at his/her disposal, but only about four to five of them were truly useful. The other songs although interesting and did have some cool effects, the only good use they had was entertainment. As for other bard skills such as listen and sneak, they were also not very useful. Another interesting thing I noticed was when bards were invisible. Everyone, including the bard who didn’t have detect invisibility couldn’t see them sing verses. This was very annoying for the bard because if the song was interrupted there was no way of knowing you weren’t singing anymore, unless you stuttered, then you would see yourself blushing.

Now for some ideas on skills. The bard is listed under the rogue class, which is fine because I don’t really see them fitting in anywhere else. Both listen and sneak are reasonable skills to give the bard, but perhaps some other rogue skills could be useful such as pick lock, detect/disarm trap, and disguise. Perhaps a skill specific to the bard class could also work. An example of this would be a skill that allows a bard to stay in combat longer without losing concentration of his song. Another example would be a skill that allows the bard a greater success rate of being able to successfully sing his songs without an instrument in his hand. I know that it is already possible to do this on the higher levels with good skills, but you still lose concentration more often than not. Another set of useful skills would be specialization in a particular song or instrument. This could work similar to the mage classes.

Now for the songs themselves. The bard class doesn’t necessarily need new songs, just additions to the ones they already have. Below I have listed each song with a suggestion on how to make them better where applicable.

Song of Peace: this song could be very useful, if it worked with a greater success rate on higher level mobs.

Song of Calming: this song is a very cool one. With it the bard can stop all combat in the room. Some problems I found with it was that only some of the players fighting would be stopped while others continued to fight. This caused problems because it ended up with the mages tanking sometimes. A possible solution would be for the song to stop all spell casting in the room. As well, for the song to work better on higher level mobs.

Song of Cowardice: A possible upgrade to this song would be for it to slow mobs. Another major problem with this song is that it is aggro. I know that it affects mobs in a negative manner, but being aggro to the mob right away takes away the effects of the song. This makes the song basically useless.

Song of Sleep: This song is good the way it is, but it needs to work on higher level mobs for it to be useful.

Song of Forgetfulness: This song is good as well, but it needs to work on higher level mobs for it to be of any use.

Song of Charming: This song is a very tricky one. Is it fair for a bard to be able to charm a bunch of level 30+ mobs to fight his/her battles? Obviously not. Perhaps, a possible solution would be to only be able to charm a certain number of mobs. Just like a necromancer can only command so many undead, would it not be logical that a bard can only charm so many mobs. If this completely unbalances the game, perhaps doing away with the song altogether would be best. I know this is rather drastic, but as fun as it is charming 200+ rabbits and bats etc, it isn’t very useful.

Song of Harming: This song is a cool idea, but it doesn’t hurt the mob for very much. As well, each time you play a verse of the song you become engaged with that mob, even if you aren’t tanking. Some possible solutions would be for it to hit for more hpts, or to have other effects such as temporarily poisoning the mob or withering it.

Song of Revelation: This song is good the way it is and doesn’t need any upgrades.

Song of Flight: This song is also good the way it is and doesn’t need any upgrades.

Song of Heroism: This song doesn’t need any upgrades either.

Song of Protection: This song is alright, having a bonus to ac is good and with the new emphasis on ac perhaps this song will become more useful. Some other ways to improve it would be to have it protect against fire, lightning, cold etc.

Song of Heal: This popular song is good the way that it is, but one possible improvement to this song would be to have it cure blindness, curse, poison etc as another side effect.

As for other songs, there are several possibilities. However, I believe that the bard class is primarily a healer/protective class and not a fighting class. Thus, if any more songs were added it would be more useful to receive further songs along the healing/protection category instead of the offensive ones. This also goes for any new skills that might be considered for the bard class.

Another area of thought is on evil race bards. As it used to stand the only way for evils to get bards is through outcast bards. Seeing how this is no longer going to be possible perhaps its time that the evil races began to sing J LOL! Possible evil races for bards would be drow/duergar. I know, drows/duergars singing? Ridiculous, but perhaps not all that ridiculous. I think that evil race bards would be extremely useful for the evil groups out there.

Now for a quick blurb on instruments. A useful way to improve bards would be to have better instruments. Ie, more instruments that plus skills, stats, and level of songs. Another improvement would be to have more unbreakable instruments. I know that on the higher levels you can play any song with a single instrument, but the songs are played best with their respected instrument.

I know that some of the ideas I have presented here are preposterous and I would never expect all if any of them to be implemented. However, I do believe that some of them hold some validity. As it stands the bard is a useful class, but is one of those classes that is useful if there is room for them in the group. Usually the group can do without them, and do.

Well for anyone who actually made it through all that -hugs- :) I really want to hear your opinions on some of my ideas...so if you can spare the time comment away :)

Good Journies

Tsaej Mallorn
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Postby Lyt » Sat Feb 03, 2001 7:49 am

Someone wrote "Song of Cowardice already does that I think. Makes mobs flee."

It does make mobs flee. Once we were killing the black knight to get into BS, and our bard started singing this song. He fled 1n of his normal spot, and since he was out of his normal location no one had to pay to get past him. Our bard then sung song of forgetfulness and we then walked past him ourselves :)

Lyt
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Postby Eilorn » Sat Feb 03, 2001 7:53 am

I don't remember the affect of Song of Peace, but, perhaps changing it to(or adding this as affects) increasing the regen of those in the room, and enhancing meditation. Thus, warriors could sleep, while spellslingers mem, all at an increased rate. It would be really nice if this were effective from early on, as it would probably help lower levels more.
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Postby tsaej » Sat Feb 03, 2001 7:56 pm

When the song of peace worked the player would feel a sense of peace overcome him and he/she would not be able to start a fight with anything until the effect of the song had worn off. I never tested to see if it helped increase regen. as well. But if it didn't I agree that that would be a good addition to the song :)
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Postby Bibbe » Wed Feb 07, 2001 11:09 am

Man all this makes we wanna play
Auirin again ..
only played a bard to like 30ish and got bored. Very much like Tsaej posted. But now i am getting the urge to do it again.
And i was thinking i shouldn't mud at all ..
bleah : ) damn you all

- bibbe
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Postby tsaej » Wed Feb 07, 2001 4:02 pm

I didn't know you played a bard Bibbe! I'm glad to see your considering mudding again -cackle- If the posts your reading have that impact keep on reading!

Tsaej Mallorn (singing a song to convince Bibbe to play S3)
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Postby Rynlaeis » Wed Feb 07, 2001 9:09 pm

As a matter of fact Faerwynd, skalds are Scandinavian I believe :) But yeah I think it's great if bards can rush into battle with the rest of them, and "pump people up" with music, kinda like morale boosters when you're hearing your favorite music being played during a fight.
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Postby Faerwynd » Wed Feb 07, 2001 9:11 pm

Oops, well whatever. You got the picture though, obviously =)
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Postby Bibbe » Thu Feb 08, 2001 7:21 pm

Haha nods i will most definatly roll a character, will try to not be as addicted again though : )
Played a Bard long ago before Bibbe, but bibbe always been the main.
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Postby izarek » Tue Feb 27, 2001 6:22 pm

Quick idea for the day:

New bard skill, circa 5th level:

Entertain

With this skill, the bard uses any skills within their means to entertain the crowd. This skill could only be used a limited number of times per day (say 2 - 3 times) and a successful check would cause the bard to gain a small amount of coinage, dependant on their skill. There would also be a chance of a severe failure to entertain. In such circumstance the bard could suffer anything from having produce thrown at them, being robbed, or being jailed. This skill would rely on the bard's charisma and would be modified by the alignment of the town (wealth if possible) and whether or not they were in a tavern. Entertaining in a tavern would grant a higher chance of success, but a severe failure would result in the bard being tossed out by the bouncer for a full mud week.

Thoughts?

Izzy

P.S. This should only be useable in towns, if that much wasn't already obvious. Squirrels aren't well known as patrons of the arts.

[This message has been edited by izarek (edited 02-27-2001).]
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Postby cherzra » Tue Feb 27, 2001 8:07 pm

Rofl, add it! Good idea!

It won't harm or offset the mud in any way (as long as the coins gathered are random, 1- 30 plat or something) and would be great fun Image

Cherzra
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Postby tsaej » Tue Feb 27, 2001 10:08 pm

Hehe Image What a cool idea! -hi5-

Tsaej Mallorn
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Shevarash
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Postby Shevarash » Tue Feb 27, 2001 10:51 pm

That is really creative, I'll see if we can work it in. Image
Harthorm
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Postby Harthorm » Wed Feb 28, 2001 6:06 am

Can I still throw things even if I liked the entertainment?

*chuckle*

BTW, should bards have an easier time performing in brothels as well? Shake it, baby!

Harthorm/Twiblin The the Maladjusted
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Postby Caedym » Sat Mar 03, 2001 4:46 am

I concur, great proposal Izarek! =)

That would be pretty cool stuffs, and if at higher levels it paid, literally, more, that'd be even cooler. Or maybe the higher level you are the more mobs you could affect, and therefor result in more coinage. Ya, that is a pretty groovey idea.

Btw I'd just like to mention, Tsaej, you MUST be a bard from that long post you did.

Heh heh heh, you type as massively as I do, seems like. Image

My Two Zhents,

Caedym Shadowhock
tsaej
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Postby tsaej » Sat Mar 03, 2001 7:17 pm

-whistles innocently- Image
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Postby Thorgil » Wed Mar 07, 2001 12:58 pm

Personally I hope bards get a good upgrade when Soj3 opens. On multiple occasions, the last 3 years before it closed there were promises of bards having their turn. First we gonna fix rogues then its bards next etc. Anyways I hope bards get the attention the class deserves and not down-prioritized which is the cause of this whole rogue idea in my opinion: Classes that could of worked but they didnt get enough attention compared to other classes.

Thorgil
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izarek
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Postby izarek » Thu Mar 22, 2001 7:10 pm

Random idea for the day:

Do bards have this skill or has this idea been suggested for them? My apologies if this has already been mentioned:

Song of disruption

This loud song involves a complex series of changes in tempo and themes, with alot of discordant notes thrown in. This song distracts the concentration of all listeners in the room, as they try to figure the song out. Thus, the spell has a chance to disrupt spellcasting, prayers and spell memorization in the area. Note that the discordant nature of this song can provoke aggressive action from those affected. This song requires the horn skill.

Yes, this effect is similar to the cleric spell silence, but it gives the bard another way to contribute to groups. Also, it could be further modified to be more of a wild-magic affecting song, which would play up the spell combinations features coming up in soj3. Eh, just an idea thrown out to enhance bards.

Izzy
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Postby Kobei » Tue Mar 27, 2001 10:27 am

Good morning all, just a thought or two I've had, since I've dabbled a bit with the bard class. I think bards are severely lacking in the area of attacking, the only Bard I remember REALLY kicking at higher levels was Betandor, the original "Battle Bard" with all the heals out there and fly helms bards were getting more and more useless, and getting groups was tough unless you were in the "clique" and you can say what you want about that but it was true, the only really usefull songs were fly and heal, heal because we didn't have to mem and could deliver "cure lights" every third rnd, and fly because we could regen a bit faster than sitting and resting(Gods forgive if you stutter while your group was running to a zone tho) Fighting and singing just don't go together, theres no way anyone, real or fantasy, that could play a harp,sing,AND wear a shield and swing a sword, but it would be nice for a bard to be able to protect himself for long enough to either get help or get out, at -100 ac 800+ hps I was still unable to kill anything that was even close to my level, the bard near IC kicked my ass every time I tried him, but my 37 warrior Melwret could wipe him in a few rnds, anyway just a few rambling thoughts from a part time bard
I don't see the harm, only the benefit of giving bards the backstab or pick lock skill,maybe toned down a bit because they've spent their time with music lessons instead of with a weapons instructor etc.
A thought on a song to make food and water, would help a little bit to make the bards a bit more useful I think and every little bit helps...


Kobei Mynstral Order of the Wyrm
cherzra
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Postby cherzra » Tue Mar 27, 2001 10:40 am

Hmm... I think it would be nicer if a bard song provided sustenance without having to create rations and/or waterskins. Just singing it would magically fill those in the room, removing hunger/thirst they might have had. Just seems more realistic than rations dropping out of the sky Image
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Postby Tovar » Tue Mar 27, 2001 1:26 pm

*agree Cherzra*
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Postby Kobei » Tue Mar 27, 2001 4:12 pm

I agree Cherzra, that would be even better not having to worry about picking crap up, just walking along giving the group that feeling of a wet gullet and full tummy, I like it! Image


Kobei
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Postby Caedym » Tue Mar 27, 2001 5:12 pm

I agree, that would be a cool song effect to keep people filling full in the tummieZ! Image

Good call Cherzra!

My Two Zhents,

Caedym Shadowhock
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Postby tsaej » Tue Mar 27, 2001 8:22 pm

I agree that a song of filling would be a good idea. However, as with all bard songs, once you stop singing the effects of the song wear off after a period of time depending on the proficiency of the bard. So this filling of the stomach would only be a temporary fix and I'm not sure how useful that would be. The only way it would be useful is if this song had a lasting affect...perhaps not as long as actually eating rations but long enough so that you could switch songs and still be effective elsewhere, or long enough to allow a mage to finish his/her mem.

Tsaej Mallorn
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Postby Marforp » Wed Mar 28, 2001 6:17 am

2 ideas

1st: Has nothing to do with bards specifically, but how about removing all fly eq from the game (like they did to haste) or making it extremly rare (read this as maybe griffon wings in Brass and that's it). Fly that is castable would be self only. I forget if levi was good enough on the planes, but if it wasn't this would make bards VITAL for all trips off prime and would mean that casters can move about much faster then warriors (with the removal of dimming to mobs would make the world fun/fair again in that way).

2nd: A song that guarantees mages make medi (possib. decrease +30sec mem time).

Marforp / Sasdor

p.s. evil innates make the mud unfair ;-)
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Postby cherzra » Wed Mar 28, 2001 6:31 am

All fly eq was hard to get last wipe Image At least it was for me... there were only a few items, and they were either rare and always grabbed by cheese necros, or they were from big zones...
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Postby Tovar » Wed Mar 28, 2001 6:56 pm

I agree w/Cherzra...and I was just a whiny goody *poke* I only got the chance to bid on a fly item once during Soj. 2
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Postby vynigumba » Wed Mar 28, 2001 7:12 pm

cheese necros...

I must say I had a decent assortment of faerie wings. But I loaned them as well. (let say I gave them to people for free since I didnt ask them back)
I gave at least 4 or 5 pairs to evil races including big names.

Reward NADA...

As with Bards... they need some major change, not little adjustments.
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Postby Caedym » Mon Jun 04, 2001 11:18 pm

Here's an Idea, why don't we heat this thread up again?


-Cae
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Postby gurzog » Tue Jun 05, 2001 4:39 pm

just an idea, not really a fix or upgrade, more of a novelty thing....
how bout when a bard starts a song, based on the instrument they are playing, it will send out a zone echo, like an orc starts playing a song
You hear the beating of war drums in the distance...
Maybe have to make it random...could get quite spammy, especially with those low lvl bards :)
and would only have the chance when they started playing the song...not with each verse...
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Postby izarek » Tue Jun 05, 2001 5:00 pm

Perhaps not when they start a song, but zone echo when they actually finish the song (that big finish is louder). Those low lvl bards dont finish em as often as they start em.

Izzy

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