grid zones

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silvea
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grid zones

Postby silvea » Thu May 10, 2001 7:13 am

I have seen a few posts before on other subjects by Belleshel and Malacar. I'll cut/paste them in my next message below as extra info. I think this subject is worth an extra thread.

1) I'm very happy that EM got 2 extra new zones. And I need to thank the gods for this a lot. In 2 words: great job !

2) I think the 2 grids should be tweaked a bit. They are now in little to no use. My suggestions for this (and is mentioned before) are:

- Give the mobs classes (they very little xp)
- Put less difrente mobs in it, to give them some style, now we got there all types of animals, undead, orc, goblins, barbarians, you name it wandering in there, and I feel like it hurts the style EM has. Give the zone a "small" story or background.
- The zones are now big squares, remove some rooms, and add a few so they are irregular of size.

I hope you can consider changing it and I really hope you will put this effort in it.
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Postby Yayaril » Thu May 10, 2001 9:48 am

I concur. I dislike the grid zones because they seem to be at odds with the spirit of the mud. They are perfectly square, nothing in there seems to interact, make noise, have equipment, aggro on you, or make sense. There's elves, orcs, goblins, giants, spectres, and all sorts of other things wandering around without any sort of story or theme. I'm glad more zones are being added to flesh out the realms, but I think the grid/experience zones moreso cheapen the lands. Thank you for your time.


Yayaril
Tilandal
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Postby Tilandal » Thu May 10, 2001 6:11 pm

Perhapse each grid zone should have a few types of mobs like say the zone near bloodtusk should have wandering orcs of different types along with a few animals and such. Also it would be nice if the mobs were classed. Would add a bit more flavor to them.
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Postby Nokie » Thu May 10, 2001 7:20 pm

A group of us went into the grid exp zone north of WD last niight and ended up leaving because the 'exp' was poor compared to other areas.
Mobs there that conned the same as other mobs in other zones were earning us much less exp. Additionally, some wre a lot tougher to kill (with the same con).

Someone mentioned this is because all those mobs are 'classless' and earn a lot less exp?

Anyone know about this?

Nokie Quickfingers!
Tilandal
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Postby Tilandal » Thu May 10, 2001 8:48 pm

Yeah, currently mobs that do not have a class tag (ie warrior, clerc, sorcerer, rogue) mave a large penalty to exp. For example in SS the guards are much better exp than the cards even though they are lower level. This is also why you see level 14 pallies killing shady mercs in wd. Most of the other low level evil mobs do not have a class and are horrible exp.
Tempus
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Postby Tempus » Thu May 10, 2001 11:55 pm

Perhaps this will clear up some of the confusion regarding the grid zones.

EXP: They are designed for SOLO use only. Thats why the mobs have no classes. If you go there solo the exp will be fine. They are not designed to replace regular group xp runs, but rather, to give you something to do when you can't get a group.

MOB VARIETY: 32 of these zones were created. The whole point of using the grid generator is that it is easy and fast. The point was not to make great zones, it was a compromise to give you some solo xp. If we spent time making really cohesive mobs, then we would have just made a real zone.


In short, they were a quick and dirty solution to giving you some solo xp areas. They were not designed to meet the rigorous standards of a regular zone on Sojourn.

Hope that clarifies why the grids are the way they are.

Temp
rylan
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Postby rylan » Fri May 11, 2001 1:42 am

Hmm.. yeah, that makes more sense now that you explained it Tempus.

I wonder abou the whole classed/non-classed mob thing.. whats the reason for non-classed being relitavely crappy xp? IT seems that a classed mob is the same xp as a non-classed mob that is 10 levels higher.
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Postby Harthorm » Fri May 11, 2001 5:57 am

It makes more sense that a class mob is more exp because it is harder to kill. For example, if you walk up to Joe Blo on the street and want to kill him, all you probably have to do is stick the knife in that poor suckers back. Now, if you were to walk up to Big Joe Blo - Warrior Extraordinaire, chances are that he's going to be alert to danger, more agile, and better in a fight than his domestic siblings. Why? Because he's trained to do that. Therefore, since he's harder to take in a fight, he should be worth more exp.

Harthorm/Twiblin

[This message has been edited by Harthorm (edited 05-11-2001).]
Tilandal
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Postby Tilandal » Fri May 11, 2001 8:49 am

Hmm, in that case would it be possiblefor someone to say write a zone to replace one of the grids and have these zones added as they ar compleated? Not that I have a lot of time right now but who knows, maybe later.
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Postby Elseenas » Fri May 11, 2001 5:57 pm

As much as I like having the additional solo exp and I appreciate the grid zones, it would be nice if they were more like Mir.

That is to say: some solo stuff, some group stuff, some things you don't want to touch with a ten foot pole, nothing particularly aggro, some things that are easy if you know the trick (e.g., making sure no one in the party has a light on), and just lots of stuff in general.

It would also be nice if the rooms didn't start with sentace fragments, but that is secondary :-p



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Elseenas of No House Worth Mentioning
Elseenas
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Postby Elseenas » Fri May 11, 2001 6:04 pm

It also would be nice if some of the things behaved like you would expect them too :-)

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Elseenas of No House Worth Mentioning

[This message has been edited by Elseenas (edited 05-11-2001).]
Tasan
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Postby Tasan » Tue May 15, 2001 4:40 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Tempus:
<B>
EXP: They are designed for SOLO use only. Thats why the mobs have no classes. If you go there solo the exp will be fine.
Temp</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just a quick note. As a ranger, with decent AC, hr: 7 dr:4, and average skills, it takes me an entire mem of spells(in nature rooms no less) + several other rounds, and almost every fight has come down to only a few hps left for both the mob and I. I think the exp isn't as good as other places mostly because of the time it takes to kill one mob. Perhaps the hps on the mobs needs to be looked at and adjusted slightly down? Seems to me that they have unusually high amounts of hp for their levels.

Just an observation.

Twyl
Elseenas
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Postby Elseenas » Sat May 26, 2001 10:23 pm

Example: I just was fighting a mob that conned "You would need a lot of luck!" in a grid zone (normally I consider starting with a dual-backstab lucky)

After leaving and comming back multiple times (3) I finally managed to get it to awful, comming back in a 4th time, I killed it.

It advanced me ~1 notch. The hit points it had were phenomenal and the experience it gave was paltry.

Also, the density of things that are killable for someone right now is rather low (in fact, the density of everything is rather low: I can move in a clear line through it 3 wide, and it is a long zone, and not touch a single critter). This low density is further complicated by the range of mobs, most just aren't killable or are really petty no matter what your level.

Once again, great idea and I like them, but they need tweaking to be really useful.

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Elseenas of No House Worth Mentioning
Kiloppile
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Postby Kiloppile » Sun May 27, 2001 1:01 am

Elseenas, does Rogue strike you as a solo class?
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Postby Wargar » Sun May 27, 2001 1:30 am

Tested the grid as 18th level warrior just to see what it's like. Seemed rather simple, mobs gave low exp but were easy to kill solo. Got 2% per kill, looking at about a full level in 45 minutes for BORING MIND NUMBING exp.

My rating: 2 1/2 *'s. If you want fun, don't go here. If you wan't exp and can't get a group have at it (tho a group will be faster/more fun xp as it should be)
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Postby Elseenas » Sun May 27, 2001 3:53 am

Kiloppile:
Does it matter?

By rogue standards I am considered a decent tank for my level. That, however, is irrelevant. I know (roughly) the damage I was doing to it with each of my hits and it took a phenomenal number of hits to reduce it , therefore I must assume that it had high hit points.

That it took me so long was not at issue and I did not portray it as one, the issues are the lack of frequency of killable mobs and the extraordinarily low exp for killing something of higher level.

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Elseenas of No House Worth Mentioning
Sarvis
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Postby Sarvis » Sun May 27, 2001 5:08 am

Ok, Grid zones aren't meant to be good exp, or even fun. They are meant to be _something_ you can do when you can't find a group. In that grid zones serve their function.


Sarvis
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Postby Tasan » Sun May 27, 2001 6:30 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Sarvis:
<B>Ok, Grid zones aren't meant to be good exp, or even fun. They are meant to be _something_ you can do when you can't find a group. In that grid zones serve their function.


Sarvis</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The reason people are posting things is because most people would rather kill other things solo than sit and try to xp in a grid zone. If they don't serve a purpose, then they are just eating up space.

In my eyes, they should be changed to:
1) Cover a smaller range of levels, so that you can have 2 grids:
1 1-25 and
1 25-50
2) Have multiple/many mobs to solo within the zone for each 5 level span. I.E. 10 mobs level 1-5, 10 level 5-10... etc.

At this point they don't really offer anything worth going to them for, solo or not, and thus are pretty much a waste of space. Like I said, I think most people would xp in a different place w/ classed mobs instead of wasting time at a grid zone.

They are a good idea, but weren't implemented quite right. It happens.

Twyl
Cyric
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Postby Cyric » Tue May 29, 2001 12:40 pm

Welp, since the grid zones were my idea, and my baby, I'll defend them as much as I can.

I know they're not perfect, but here were my goals:

1. Give solo players (or groups of 2) *something* to do where they could earn some XP near each of the hometowns. Too many people had been complaining that we were too "group based", which I disagree with, but this was my fix for them.

2. Make it easy...I created 32 grid zones using a new random room generator and populated them all with the exact same mobs, hence the mobs that you'll find everywhere. I tried to use mobs that'd make sense in all environments, but nothing's perfect.

So yes, I understand that the XP isn't as good as it could be, but the goal was to create buffalos (in effect) for players of levels 10-50...I remember weeks as a player doing nothing but those stupid horses and buffalos.

Now on the other hand, as alluded to above, I think that this mud IS a group based place, and as a player I'm not going to be spending much, if any, time in the grids...it's just a way to keep some people happy, and based on a few of the posts on here, they *are* working that way.

As to Evermeet, I have 3 zones underway by new makers to be placed on Evermeet, so I'm 100% aware of the problem there...I won't forget ya! Just see the grid zones for what they are.

R
silvea
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Postby silvea » Tue May 29, 2001 1:14 pm

3 zones for EM is great Image I hope a coast road is with them Image it would give that last piece of style it realy needs.

Well done Cyric Image And I'm happy with the grids when they tweaked right Image
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Postby Xizz » Tue May 29, 2001 1:28 pm

silvea's post looks soooo good for target practice... all those dang circles!
silvea
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Postby silvea » Tue May 29, 2001 1:43 pm

*hands a bow and arrows over to Xizz*

*tells Xizz, take your best aim*

Image
silvea
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Postby silvea » Tue May 29, 2001 1:43 pm

double post

[This message has been edited by silvea (edited 05-29-2001).]
gurzog
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Postby gurzog » Tue May 29, 2001 7:31 pm

hmm, just tested out a grid zone for about 45 mins
I could have made better xp fighting mobs 5 levels lower than me in almost any hometown. Not to mention, noticed a lot of the mobs that con'd are you mad to me were undead or animals, so not even coins from them, and i did kill some of the undead ones.
These zones would be perfect for me on the few chances I do get to mud from work, but as they are...I'm better off going to kill low lvl mobs just for the coins they carry than to go to an xp grid.
Should either give the mobs standard hp for their level or just take the zones out completely. Plus there are classless mobs in other zones that can be done a lot easier and they'll give more xp.
I like the idea behind the xp grids, there are times where I'd just rather mud by myself than in a group, but there are many more places I could go for better xp than one of the grids.

Hmm, sorry if this msg comes off as offensive...I really don't mean it that way, just trying to explain why the xp grid isn't what it's trying to be....


[This message has been edited by gurzog (edited 05-29-2001).]
Elseenas
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Postby Elseenas » Wed Jun 06, 2001 6:48 pm

Cyric:
I understand the intentions, the problem is that it really doesn't succeed at them. The mobs don't give enough exp soloing them to be worth the trouble it takes to kill them and the zones are too sparsley populated with mobs in a good exp range for any given level.

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Elseenas of No House Worth Mentioning
Liran
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Postby Liran » Wed Jun 06, 2001 9:16 pm

For all the complaints people have of the grid zones I feel I need to make some effort to defend them.

When I was leveling from 18-19 and 19-20, I'm guessing all but approx. 10% of the experiance I received during this time was earned from solo'ing the grids. I must say that I was not dissapointed with its performace at all. On a couple of >extreme< instances I actually LEFT a group to go solo because I could get better exp. from them without the frustrations commonly associated with some larger groups. Im guessing that I averaged about 4-5% per 3 mobs killed, and a couple of single kills would produce 4-6% each..

My interpritaion of the idea behind the creation of these zones is they are NOT intended to be an alternitive to taking a group and smiting hoards of high level mobs. Rather an optional source of *some* exp(maybe a little cash) for people who for one reason or another cannot or choose to not group.

Please keep in mind I was/am a rather low level and cannot speak for what they do for others at different levels.

Hey, it beats sitting at the fountain picking your nose and trying to sell yourself to a group like a 2bit whore.


Liran Wynterreine,
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Postby Todrael » Thu Jun 07, 2001 4:38 am

Above level 35, I'd say, the grids become pointless. The mods that would give you exp hit insanely hard, and quite often, and have a ton of hps. Using my best techniques, I was unable to solo something level 50+ in the grid, at level 41 necromancer, which would have given me perhaps .05%, being classless.

-Todrael

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