NHC

Archive of the Sojourn3 Ideas Forum.
Vazzgo
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NHC

Postby Vazzgo » Mon May 21, 2001 6:46 pm

Just a small idea, why not remove the channel for evils?.. that's all
Elseenas
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Postby Elseenas » Sat May 26, 2001 7:59 am

Can you think of a single good reason to?

Yes, they are supposed to be more advanced players, but that doesn't mean that they know everything about evils before playin gthem.

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Sarvis
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Postby Sarvis » Sat May 26, 2001 12:46 pm

Not to mention that the _advanced_ players are on NHC... you know, the people who can give the best advice to real newbies. Image

Sarvis
gurzog
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Postby gurzog » Sun May 27, 2001 6:24 am

I think that NHC should be unavailable to evil races also. They *should* already know things like how do I scribe and why am I getting this message saying I am hungry. If they don't they should be playing goodie. Plus, I think that everything should be done to discourage a true newbie from playing evil as their first character. There are quite a few tricks to learn to staying alive outside of your hometown as an evil, like where the paladins pop, where to go, where not to go, etc...

gurzog
Ragorn
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Postby Ragorn » Sun May 27, 2001 3:26 pm

If you want to make evil life harder, this isn't the way to do it.

In another thread, people were speaking negatively of goodies who converted to evil. I don't understand how some evils can discourage that behavior, yet still expect newbie evil characters to know how to play the game.

There was a time when playing an evil race was significantly harder than playing a goodie. That was a time when evils didn't have access to clerics, invokers, or enchanters. That time is over. On Sojourn 3, evils are just as difficult, if not EASIER, than goodies. Why is a topic for another thread. But there's no reason newbies shouldn't be encouraged to play evil races on the new Sojourn. Remove their NHC, and they're just gonna who sort and ask the highest person of their race.

I'm all about helping new players, not hindering them because someone somewhere has an idea that evils are for "elite players."

- Ragorn
gurzog
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Postby gurzog » Mon May 28, 2001 2:18 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ragorn:
<B>I'm all about helping new players, not hindering them because someone somewhere has an idea that evils are for "elite players."

- Ragorn</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

heh i am by no means an 'elite' player and I'm not trying to make evils life harder, but if someone doesn't know how to scribe spells or why they get messages like You are hungry/thirsty, you really think they should be playing an evil race? I just think that someone who plays an evil race should at least have some experience on this mud before they play an evil, just so they know what commands there and how to do basic things...
and evils easier than goodie? yeah if you play a drow or ogre, I've long thought that Faang was much too easy for an evil race and DK is even easier...In the UD at least, you make a wrong turn at low lvls, your eq is gone, Hyssyk, definately the hardest evilrace town, and Ghore is easy to get out of if you know where you are going, but if you dont? I bet you get killed at least a couple times trying to get out of it...
but i guess this is for a different thread

NHC = newbie help channel
Doesn't that just go against all the warnings and stuff that the Imms have put in the help files?

[This message has been edited by gurzog (edited 05-27-2001).]
Elseenas
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Postby Elseenas » Mon May 28, 2001 2:55 am

gurzog et al:

I tell you what.

Take someone who knows the basic commands and throw them in Ix without any help support (most of the squids are anon anyways) and see how well they fare.

There is more to NHC than knowing the basics of "You are hungry".

Further, as Sarvis said, more than just Helpers can help in NHC and allowing people with some experience to aid others isn't a bad idea at all.

On top of all of this, there is no real reason to remove it other than that the evils should theoretically know what they are doing.

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Elseenas of No House Worth Mentioning
gurzog
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Postby gurzog » Mon May 28, 2001 3:45 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Elseenas:
<B>Take someone who knows the basic commands and throw them in Ix without any help support (most of the squids are anon anyways) and see how well they fare.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heh, that was my whole point, they should be able to fare fairly well if they know at least parts of the mud whether they're in Ix, GH, DK, Faang, Ghore, Hyssyk or Bloodtusk. I know very little of Ix, but I'm pretty sure I could level a squid, sure not as fast as Lazz or Ezz, but it'd be at a decent rate and I wouldn't need to use NHC.
If you knew me, you'd know that I help out newbie evils whenever I can. Last wipe as a shaman, everytime I left ghore I'd leave an elemental at the lizard men if I could get a spirit, all I needed was my spirit, so why not leave the ellie there to help people who died or people who needed to get out of Ghore? Of course, I doubt the gods approved, but they never said anything to me so I kept doing it. Is the NHC channel really for asking things like How do I get from DK to GH? or Ix to settlement? That's things you should learn as you raise in levels, as you group with others, as you explore...Granted, I didn't pay attention much to NHC when I was that low and I don't know the things that were asked and not asked, but to me I thought NHC was for things like, How/Where do I refill my water skin, where do I get food, how do I scribe, how come I try to cast magic missile and it says I don't have it memorized...
Ragorn
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Postby Ragorn » Mon May 28, 2001 7:29 am

Well, I've been a newbie helper on NHC since before day 1. You get more questions than hunger/thirst on there, and sometimes it's hard to know what a "newbie" question is. If I logged a squid right now, you better believe I'm gonna ask somewhere where the inn is. That's an NHC question. Questions about geography or skills for a race/class you've never played before are perfect examples of NHC questions that aren't posed by absolute Sojourn virgins. Everyone has to be shown how to get out of Hyssk the first time. NHC just makes that process easier.

The question that we're asking on several threads right now isn't whether evils should get NHC, it's "Just how hard are evils supposed to be?" Should someone who knows how to eat, drink, and cast spells really be able to roll a drow and exp with the best of them? I personally don't think that levelling an evil is particularly difficult. It can't be. Look at the who list. If exp were truly difficult, you wouldn't see 3 of the top 4 slots being taken by evils. Ever.

Getting sort of off topic. I don't see why NHC should be removed from evils, unless someone is trying to promote elitism among evil players.

- Ragorn
cherzra
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Postby cherzra » Mon May 28, 2001 7:41 am

It's not elitism to know where the IX inn is, or if you how to get off hyssk. It's a sign of being a more experienced player.

And that is what evils are supposedly for, aren't they?

A sign of a good player is being able to learn a new town, to be able to find the inn on his own without having to ask other people or someone on NHC. Actually, I think this isn't even a sign of a good player. Everyone should be able to do this, but to my sadness most people can't find their way out of a paper box.

It's my firm belief NHC should not be there for evils. Really, everyone should know how to scribe, eat, drink, mem, and all the basic stuff. Knowledge of evil towns and zones comes with time. Map. Die. Learn. Map, die and learn more. Of course, even without NHC you can always send someone a tell, but usually I respond with "map it". I hand my share of eq to newbies, but you can't pamper them all the way.

One way of lessening the army of newbies playing evil is by ditching NHC. You can't have your cake and eat it too, there's nothing 'cruel' about having to know the basics of mudding (the commands, the combat and (learning and mapping of ) the zones), nor is it 'elitist' to want NHC removed for evils.

Cherzra
Vazzgo
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Postby Vazzgo » Mon May 28, 2001 10:56 am

Extrated from helpfile:
You should NOT play a drow unless you
are a *very* advanced player and are used to the Sojourn style of
MUDding, or are willing to face the hardships without complaint, as it
will NOT be easy.

And same thing appears on other evil races helpfiles.. try it. you'll find it
Valeos/Dorac
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Postby Valeos/Dorac » Mon May 28, 2001 11:13 am

heh i can't see what the problem is...if you dont wanna answer the newbie questions on nhc then either dont, or tog nhc off heh...
Kiloppile
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Postby Kiloppile » Mon May 28, 2001 4:23 pm

Heh... like Cherzra is gonna be on the NHC channel anyway? After 10th level you can't turn it on, unless you're flagged as a helper.
Sarvis
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Postby Sarvis » Mon May 28, 2001 4:51 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Vazzgo:
<B>Extrated from helpfile:
You should NOT play a drow unless you
are a *very* advanced player and are used to the Sojourn style of
MUDding, or are willing to face the hardships without complaint, as it
will NOT be easy.

And same thing appears on other evil races helpfiles.. try it. you'll find it</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah... looks like Todrael had it real rough. 46 in a week and a half!! How can he deal with that? Image

Sarvis
Todrael
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Postby Todrael » Mon May 28, 2001 10:12 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Sarvis:
<B> Yeah... looks like Todrael had it real rough. 46 in a week and a half!! How can he deal with that? Image

Sarvis</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was level 39. And I had 14 days playing time, over a period of a month and a half. At 39, it becomes nearly impossible to solo exp, fyi. I've also been mudding for 8 years, 4 of which was spent on Soj1/Toril. I'm not exactly a newbie.

-Todrael
silvea
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Postby silvea » Thu Jun 07, 2001 11:12 am

I think NHC should be for all players, this includes everybody above level 10 and all evils as well. I get a lot of questions from players, often very new players and got most of the time no trouble with answering them. I even got sometimes a "stuppid" question I don't know or trick I did not know or forgot.

By offering NHC to everybody its much more easy to ask questions and have players answering them. And thoes helpers are often not there or not responding. So low levels need to ask players. If everybody who wants to help got NHC then he can tog it on/off when he/she wants so more people are there to help.

About evils for more exp players? Don't let me start, the time that evils was for exp players was before the troll was invented. And for sure gone after the drow came in.

The use of NHC does not say if the person in question knows the mud, it only says he/she needs some info he/she might have forgotten.

silvea
Nokie
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Postby Nokie » Thu Jun 07, 2001 11:44 am

And don't forget that you can have plenty of newbies OVER level 10.

As long as they have the right people to twink them, then can be completely clueless over level 10. As a matter of fact, we levelled a bard to 10 in one evening.

Let 'high level newbies' toggle it on I say!

Nokie Quickfingers
Ssarra
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Postby Ssarra » Thu Jun 07, 2001 12:30 pm

I'm surprised that "Where is the inn?" is a newbie question. I like to explore and learn the town. Walk around, find things. Granted, newbies ask that, but don't straight up tell them :P Explain to them that they should explore, and if they need help exploring (food/water/light/etc) that you'll help. Oh, and someone had to get off hyssk first. So there are people who haven't been shown that, they figured it out on their own.
Sarvis
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Postby Sarvis » Thu Jun 07, 2001 6:36 pm

I'm not... think about it: Most MUDS these days don't use rent... so players are used to just quitting when they are done. So they log in and start exploring, then maybe their mom comes in and needs the phone for something and they try to quit. They see the message that they need an inn, but can't take time to search for it without their mom grounding them or something Image

Sarvis
Sarell
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Postby Sarell » Mon Jun 11, 2001 12:26 pm

nods I'd like to be able to tog the newbie channel on, I like helping folk out, however I would also like a new deathproc skill for druids called *smite the person using NHC to chat on*

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