Balance
Balance
Since evil races are no longer considered to be for the advanced player how bout a little more balance in relationship to good race. Such as some sort of equipment that would allow ultravision race players to see in the light. At least as far as some equivalent to infravision.
what's your point sarvis?
if you are a human andyou die in ic..you walk through harpers...ooo scary!
if you dwarf and you die in hp you have to walk through troll fields...oo scary!
if you orc and die in bg or dk you have to walk through gnolls, barbarians possibly, vines and troll fields..not to mentoin all the stiknin paladins and rangers on the road
if you are a human andyou die in ic..you walk through harpers...ooo scary!
if you dwarf and you die in hp you have to walk through troll fields...oo scary!
if you orc and die in bg or dk you have to walk through gnolls, barbarians possibly, vines and troll fields..not to mentoin all the stiknin paladins and rangers on the road
The point is that the only reason you are dieing in DK is you want the really really good exp that's there. If you just settled for the crappy exp we goodies get on BGR you'd have the easiest CR in the game. But no, you want the drow exp... the stuff that allows them to go from 1-40 without ever leaving their hometown. Orcs can level in DK, goodies can't. DK is one of the best exp zones in the game... so quit yer bitchin'. 
Sarvis
Sarvis
Misguided standards of maturity. Interesting you make that remark. Adding humor to a thread as a means of making people realize that the incessant flaming and degradation of others over matters involving a game does not in any way stem from misguided standards of maturity. Maturity is the ability to be open minded to all ideas, setting aside your own personal opinion to actually consider what other people are saying. From this stems rational thought and conversations without "flaming." From this, ideas can be concieved with more efficiency allowing more time to work out a compromise for the possible unbalancing issues, and thus making everyone happier in the end. My pervious comment in no way represents my maturity, only an attempt at lightening the mood of those with a dark attitude. Poor though the attempt may have been, at least I try at humor before personal attack.
Ssarra - I still want the green one -
[This message has been edited by Ssarra (edited 06-18-2001).]
Ssarra - I still want the green one -
[This message has been edited by Ssarra (edited 06-18-2001).]
Since the actual mood behind my original post was misunderstood, I added something else. 
It was in no way intended as a personal attack, and I wouldn't have cared if it were an attack aimed at me, but then, that's my level of maturity shining through.
Anyways, to get back on track with the thread, what do evils not have? They have tanks, healers, damage dealers, and utility classes. So do goodies. Granted, less melee for evils due to lack of a ranger/paladin type class, what goodie race has the innates of most evil races? Troll regen, Drow lev and ff, Yuan vipermind and scaleskin, Duergar invis.... etc. Seems to me that both sides have every thing it takes to be awesome, just utilize every race/class available. If you want more damage in melee for evils, instead of adding an entire other class, consider the massive damage that ogres should do, compared to what they do now. Just my thoughts, take them how you will.
It was in no way intended as a personal attack, and I wouldn't have cared if it were an attack aimed at me, but then, that's my level of maturity shining through.Anyways, to get back on track with the thread, what do evils not have? They have tanks, healers, damage dealers, and utility classes. So do goodies. Granted, less melee for evils due to lack of a ranger/paladin type class, what goodie race has the innates of most evil races? Troll regen, Drow lev and ff, Yuan vipermind and scaleskin, Duergar invis.... etc. Seems to me that both sides have every thing it takes to be awesome, just utilize every race/class available. If you want more damage in melee for evils, instead of adding an entire other class, consider the massive damage that ogres should do, compared to what they do now. Just my thoughts, take them how you will.
Xizz:
We have been thinking of a few things like that, we will see what comes of it.
And, the removal of the disclaimer does not neccessarily mean that evils are supposed to be as easy as goodies to play...it is just a change in how we present it to new players. ie, instead of telling new players what NOT to play, we prefer to tell them what they SHOULD play, as that way we can easily exclude any race that is hard, not just evils. Elves, halflings, and possibly even gnomes can also be a little hard for a newbie to get started with too...
Every race has it's advantages and disadvantages, and experienced players are expected to know enough about them to make an informed decision about what the choose to play.
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<B>Shevarash -- Code Forger of Sojourn3
</B>
We have been thinking of a few things like that, we will see what comes of it.
And, the removal of the disclaimer does not neccessarily mean that evils are supposed to be as easy as goodies to play...it is just a change in how we present it to new players. ie, instead of telling new players what NOT to play, we prefer to tell them what they SHOULD play, as that way we can easily exclude any race that is hard, not just evils. Elves, halflings, and possibly even gnomes can also be a little hard for a newbie to get started with too...
Every race has it's advantages and disadvantages, and experienced players are expected to know enough about them to make an informed decision about what the choose to play.
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<B>Shevarash -- Code Forger of Sojourn3
</B>
Ok good, back to the thread, and i apologize for being mean or inappropriate. I would have to agree that Good and Evil are pretty well balanced with the one exception being the blindness of some underdark races. I think there are a few ways to address this that would make it a bit more fair. It seems as though just giving underdark races large disadvantes in combat and maybe even expending more moves to travel while still allowing them to follow a group and see room descriptions would be a better way to do this. I think an item or a spell to remove blindess for a duration would be too powerful. But wandering around dayblind can be very frustrating and while the underdark is big and expanding it still isnt enough to be tottaly limed like that on the surface. Just my opinion mind you.
Hrm... now that I actually read the first post... I actually lobbied for some kind of item to get rid of dayblindness back on Soj2... was told it would be unbalancing. Basically I just think it's boring to have to sit there for 10 minutes and do nothing because it's too bright out. My other post was basically just a response to what Dinggle said... I didn't actually read the posts before that.
Sarvis
I actually lobbied for some kind of item to get rid of dayblindness back on Soj2... was told it would be unbalancing. Basically I just think it's boring to have to sit there for 10 minutes and do nothing because it's too bright out. My other post was basically just a response to what Dinggle said... I didn't actually read the posts before that. Sarvis
Actually, as a more realistic alternative:
You are blind for one hour (game time) every game day when the sun first comes up. So long as it is light out (which needs to be *checkable*) the char with ultravision suffers penalties to attack rolls.
True dayblindness might occure in the drow from Menzoberanzan, but I am sure it shouldn't occure in drow who live anywhere on the surface.
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Elseenas of No House Worth Mentioning
You are blind for one hour (game time) every game day when the sun first comes up. So long as it is light out (which needs to be *checkable*) the char with ultravision suffers penalties to attack rolls.
True dayblindness might occure in the drow from Menzoberanzan, but I am sure it shouldn't occure in drow who live anywhere on the surface.
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Elseenas of No House Worth Mentioning
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Galok Icewolf
- Sojourner
- Posts: 510
- Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 6:01 am
squids have a quested skill that counteracts dayblindness..costs them 20psi to cast
enchatners get that fog thing at circle 7
sarvis...have you done exp in dk? it's overcrowded because the exp is good. it's no longer possible to go from 1-40 in dk because everything is always dead. it's like the line of paladins fighting over the tree of death on bgr, or all the oflks fighting over ic lieutenants, only on a larger scale.
the best exp is in the UD as ANY evil will tell you bud.
and i dont appreciate you flaming my initial response about my being in dk. it was an example, i havent died in dk, but i have died in ic as a troll so bite me! it was a pain in the ass getting through vines, the barbarians some dumb goodie tracked out of that settlement, the gnolls and the damned harpers.
thankyoudrivethru!
chunkta
enchatners get that fog thing at circle 7
sarvis...have you done exp in dk? it's overcrowded because the exp is good. it's no longer possible to go from 1-40 in dk because everything is always dead. it's like the line of paladins fighting over the tree of death on bgr, or all the oflks fighting over ic lieutenants, only on a larger scale.
the best exp is in the UD as ANY evil will tell you bud.
and i dont appreciate you flaming my initial response about my being in dk. it was an example, i havent died in dk, but i have died in ic as a troll so bite me! it was a pain in the ass getting through vines, the barbarians some dumb goodie tracked out of that settlement, the gnolls and the damned harpers.
thankyoudrivethru!
chunkta
If any evil knows UD is better exp then why is DK overcrowded? Even if it is overcrowded most other zones have been lately as well. I wasn't flaming you, just pointing out what I felt was a ridiculous argument for evils being considered difficult.
Oh, and as a side note... I'd rather go through vines and gnolls than the fields of the dead any day. You shouldn't be hitting the barbarians unless you don't know where you are going, and what are these harpers you keep talking about? Face it, your walk isn't really that much harder than a barbarian who has died in HP. (The ONE exception being the pallidorks.)
Sarvis
Oh, and as a side note... I'd rather go through vines and gnolls than the fields of the dead any day. You shouldn't be hitting the barbarians unless you don't know where you are going, and what are these harpers you keep talking about? Face it, your walk isn't really that much harder than a barbarian who has died in HP. (The ONE exception being the pallidorks.)
Sarvis
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Sarvis:</font>
Time to flame a cluebie
Oh, and as a side note... I'd rather go through vines and gnolls than the fields of the dead any day.
*cough* You do realise that you have to get through FoD when you leave Ghore?
You shouldn't be hitting the barbarians unless you don't know where you are going, and what are these harpers you keep talking about?
Have you ever walked from Waterdeep to the Mirar Ferry? The road is infested with 40+ di aggro-evilrace harpers, making it really hard for an evil to walk it.
Face it, your walk isn't really that much harder than a barbarian who has died in HP. (The ONE exception being the pallidorks.)
Nopes, you are WAY wrong! This is all running as a naked level 20ish to do a cr.
Aggro's for a Troll.
- Lizardmen on leaving ghore.
- FoD crap
- Plainsman at Ako sign.
- Vines
- Gnolls
- Some dork can have dragged Helm to TP.
- Minor aggro's at goblin caves
- Those minor aggros at Skeldrach.
- Human bounty hunter can be at RC
- Countless of those annoying Harpers
- Dwarven hunter can be at spine.
- Coyotes can hurt a naked lowbie.
And of course, paladin groups can pop everywhere instant splatting the poor troll.
Barbarians have this.
- Might run in to Icebear.
- Some FoD aggros.
- Thief in HP entrance.
Then consider that the way around WD takes about 15-30 minutes to walk when naked, it kind of makes it a tad bit harder.
/Jegzed mutters something about cluebies.
Bah! If you get to count mosqitoes around skeldrach then we get to count shambling mounds by neverwinter. (Occasionally one of those guys is tougher than the others.) And the hill giant, not to mention the chance of accidentally walking into trollbark now (I know a few people who have lost corpses to that.) Revised list:
Barbie:
Ice Bear
Giant Undead Indestructable Troll (See Vigis' post from like a month ago in the general forum.)
Malice
Some Labrynth Warrior Guy near WD road crossing (got me once on the way back from IC.)
FOD
Thieves
random load drow and kobold raiders which can seriously screw over a naked human. (I had to run from the kobolds a last wipe even with full gear at level 24.)
Troll:
FOD
Gnolls (can go through scorn ferry instead of vines right?)
Harpers (still never seen them)
a boar
mosquitos
palliedorks
bounty hunters
coyotes
Of course, trolls also have that nice little regen thingy and much better stats. So again, quit yer bitchin'!
Of course, this started with an Orc, who gets a nice cozy hometown and doesn't have to worry about Vines _or_ FOD.
Sarvis
(And yes, I know Ghore is in FOD, just wasn't thinking about that earlier. )
Barbie:
Ice Bear
Giant Undead Indestructable Troll (See Vigis' post from like a month ago in the general forum.)
Malice
Some Labrynth Warrior Guy near WD road crossing (got me once on the way back from IC.)
FOD
Thieves
random load drow and kobold raiders which can seriously screw over a naked human. (I had to run from the kobolds a last wipe even with full gear at level 24.)
Troll:
FOD
Gnolls (can go through scorn ferry instead of vines right?)
Harpers (still never seen them)
a boar
mosquitos
palliedorks
bounty hunters
coyotes
Of course, trolls also have that nice little regen thingy and much better stats. So again, quit yer bitchin'!
Of course, this started with an Orc, who gets a nice cozy hometown and doesn't have to worry about Vines _or_ FOD.
Sarvis
(And yes, I know Ghore is in FOD, just wasn't thinking about that earlier. )
Stop being foolish, everything you list between, the mithril hall and roadcrossing are also all valid for trolls too, the mounds attack us, Malice for whatever reason you listed her, etc. Trollbark is also aggro to trolls. and lets no forget that you have the option of taking a ship from waterdeep to bg and avoiding almost everything alltogether. Orc hometown is actually one of the least convenient to start in for an evilrace(except yuanti) because it is so disjoint from the other evil towns. I do think that evil and good are balanced as far as power for the most part, but it think the disclaimer served a good purpose to newbies because it would be very disheartening to a newbie to hit the multiple aggros in and around evil hometowns.
You people who compalin about everything being flames need to just go away. If 2 or more people have a discussion and don't agree and argue their points it is not a flame war. You self righteous people who feel the need to chastise people for having a discussion are doing nothing more than distracting from the thread and contributing nothing to the conversation. You are no better than the losers who sit, watching, waiting, hoping on the OOC line just praying someone will mess up and say something that can be vaguely interpited as being in character so you can jump down their throat about it. I don't know what world you live in where a discussion consists of one person making a point and then everyone else chimes in, in agreement with the point, but around here its the differences of opinion that make the discussions interesting so please go log on to smurf village mud or something if you want your happy little boring world.
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Uthgar
- Staff Member - Coder
- Posts: 141
- Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2001 6:01 am
- Location: Chatsworth, CA, USA
Actually, I read these thread every day, and I can tell the difference between a flame and an argument. A flame is when someone decides to make a personal attack or use a put-down, rather than using logic. Ever heard the saying, 'The first person to yell loses the argument'? Well, IMO, the first person to use put-downs or personal attacks loses the argument.
I read these posts every day because I am able to glean useful information from them, but lately they seem more filled with flames than with information. If you want the staff of the MUD to read and (maybe) use your comments, I suggest the following:
no put-downs
no negative personal comments
no use of IMHO, I use IMO, cuz I know I ain't humble
no use of the following terms: "goodies", "evils", "palidorks", "twinks", "whiners", "newbies", or any of their variants. When I see those terms, it frankly causes me dismiss the writer's opinion as immature and biased. I have occasionally used one or two of the milder forms of these myself, but will try to refrain from doing so again.
A little civility goes a long way. If you want something for your character/class/race/friends/etc. to be changed or improved, try using honey instead of vinegar, cuz I don't like salad.
Uthgar
I read these posts every day because I am able to glean useful information from them, but lately they seem more filled with flames than with information. If you want the staff of the MUD to read and (maybe) use your comments, I suggest the following:
no put-downs
no negative personal comments
no use of IMHO, I use IMO, cuz I know I ain't humble
no use of the following terms: "goodies", "evils", "palidorks", "twinks", "whiners", "newbies", or any of their variants. When I see those terms, it frankly causes me dismiss the writer's opinion as immature and biased. I have occasionally used one or two of the milder forms of these myself, but will try to refrain from doing so again.
A little civility goes a long way. If you want something for your character/class/race/friends/etc. to be changed or improved, try using honey instead of vinegar, cuz I don't like salad.
Uthgar
What about a discussion of N----- Helpers? We can't very well make suggestions for them, or the N----- channel if we can't say N----- can we?
And I thought "palidork" was just the accepted evil name for those paladin mobs that pop around and slaughter evil race players. *shrug* Oh well...
Zrax: Listed Malice because he chases people all the way to the ferry... but yer right, trolls would have to deal with him to. Ice Bear and that Undead Troll thing are still valid though because they are past MH. Trollbark isn't that valid for trolls because they don't often walk that way, I only ended up there accidentally once running south from WD. Oh yeah... and isn't there a log some where of a yuan-ti succesfully navigating WD? So theoretically you guys could take the ship as well!
Hrm... now that I think about it... you could take the ship from HP to just north of WD, then run north to Menden On-The-Deep and take the Great Northern Road. That avoids everything but FOD for a troll going to IC and even FOD for an orc trying to get south. Well, cept the HP thieves... but they aren't that hard to avoid.
Sarvis
And I thought "palidork" was just the accepted evil name for those paladin mobs that pop around and slaughter evil race players. *shrug* Oh well...
Zrax: Listed Malice because he chases people all the way to the ferry... but yer right, trolls would have to deal with him to. Ice Bear and that Undead Troll thing are still valid though because they are past MH. Trollbark isn't that valid for trolls because they don't often walk that way, I only ended up there accidentally once running south from WD. Oh yeah... and isn't there a log some where of a yuan-ti succesfully navigating WD? So theoretically you guys could take the ship as well!
Hrm... now that I think about it... you could take the ship from HP to just north of WD, then run north to Menden On-The-Deep and take the Great Northern Road. That avoids everything but FOD for a troll going to IC and even FOD for an orc trying to get south. Well, cept the HP thieves... but they aren't that hard to avoid.
Sarvis
I think he was refering to them being used in the following ways:
"Damn whining goodies" or
"Simpering goodies" or
"Clueless goodies" or
"Couldn't stay alive for 5 minutes in Hyssk goodies" or
"Suffering from troll envy goodies" or
"Being blind half of the time isn't THAT much of a nusance goodies" or
"Food"
(NOTE: These are only for illustrative purposes. Any legal repurcussions may not be directed at Rausrh.)
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Rausrh licks you.
"Damn whining goodies" or
"Simpering goodies" or
"Clueless goodies" or
"Couldn't stay alive for 5 minutes in Hyssk goodies" or
"Suffering from troll envy goodies" or
"Being blind half of the time isn't THAT much of a nusance goodies" or
"Food"
(NOTE: These are only for illustrative purposes. Any legal repurcussions may not be directed at Rausrh.)
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Rausrh licks you.
Reading back through this, I must agree with Jegzed... of course, try being a Yuan-ti that died in IC. Now that's a bitch. Especially if you're not a mage class with lev/fly and invis. The walk for a barbarian on a standard day is exactly like Jegzed said, plus a few extra random mobs. If those random mobs are such a problem, have a storage char with some low level equipment in your home town to help you get through the cr. And a drow that dies in IC? Dayblind makes that about as bad as a Yuan-ti. By the time you get to your corpse, it has rotted and the mob has your eq! Like I said before, evil races have their strengths, good races have thiers. Learn to utilize what you have, and each side can be just as powerful as the other.
Like I said before, evil races have their strengths, good races have thiers. Learn to utilize what you have, and each side can be just as powerful as the other.i have to wonder though if sarvis speaks from extensive esperience playing an evil, or just his observations and things other oflks have told him about the evil races.
trollbark is as much a threat to any evil race as anyone else, i mean sure i walked north passed it once, but i have to go back south too sometime
the harpers are a pain if you dont know the way because random fleeing will get you in worse trouble! (so i've 'been told. guess i've just been lucky) they are harper woodsmen, rangers who sneak so you cant see them enter the room.
orc hometown is actually not in a good place when you think about it. orcs are evil, and have the only surface evil hometown north of the vines. it's definately not cushy. there are less aggros and no justice in ghore i believe. i've been aggrod, killed the aggro mob, only to have the elite gate guards chase me down as i fled out of the zone. couldnt go back till reboot (this as a troll and orc)
this is my first evil. i decided to play evil this incarnation of the mud since 5 years of playing good races really didnt do much for me. it's been far more rewarding, but the risk IS increased.
the UD is the best exp around, but also hard to get to. in one direction you have to have help from someone already in there to open a door, the other way through dk you need wb and levitate. sure there are potions, but i dont know where they are and it's not that important to a level 25 troll and 23 orc rogue to find out right now.
so there you have it. do i whine cause evils are hard? no, if i thought that the two classes that i play were too hard i wouldnt play them. i personally dont thrive on extreme challenges unless it's a challenge in my chosen real life profession. the evil races are a very nice change form the good races, for me at least, but it's silly to think or argue that the evil races have less obstacles to deal with than a good race, or to even argue that a troll has no more to deal with than a barbarian, for it is just untrue (barbs allergic to fire)
Chunkta
Narial
trollbark is as much a threat to any evil race as anyone else, i mean sure i walked north passed it once, but i have to go back south too sometime
the harpers are a pain if you dont know the way because random fleeing will get you in worse trouble! (so i've 'been told. guess i've just been lucky) they are harper woodsmen, rangers who sneak so you cant see them enter the room.
orc hometown is actually not in a good place when you think about it. orcs are evil, and have the only surface evil hometown north of the vines. it's definately not cushy. there are less aggros and no justice in ghore i believe. i've been aggrod, killed the aggro mob, only to have the elite gate guards chase me down as i fled out of the zone. couldnt go back till reboot (this as a troll and orc)
this is my first evil. i decided to play evil this incarnation of the mud since 5 years of playing good races really didnt do much for me. it's been far more rewarding, but the risk IS increased.
the UD is the best exp around, but also hard to get to. in one direction you have to have help from someone already in there to open a door, the other way through dk you need wb and levitate. sure there are potions, but i dont know where they are and it's not that important to a level 25 troll and 23 orc rogue to find out right now.
so there you have it. do i whine cause evils are hard? no, if i thought that the two classes that i play were too hard i wouldnt play them. i personally dont thrive on extreme challenges unless it's a challenge in my chosen real life profession. the evil races are a very nice change form the good races, for me at least, but it's silly to think or argue that the evil races have less obstacles to deal with than a good race, or to even argue that a troll has no more to deal with than a barbarian, for it is just untrue (barbs allergic to fire)
Chunkta
Narial
The only thing I see in theese discusions are the number of agro's that are on the way to IC. But to be fair? What is an evil doing there? Why should an evil go to the surface?
Evil race (the ones with ultra vision) are made to be underground. If you want to go to the surface for xp or eq you except the risks of being there. Ultra vission together with the few agro's on the surface are the only disadvantage for an evil race. You get for this much better stats, a lot of inniate abilities (levitate, invisibility, faerie fire, strength to name a few).
The question if the xp is better in DK yes or no, thats not a real fair one. Its just teh collection of difrent level of mobs thats there, that makes it intrestiong so you don't need to travel much to get your xp for a level. But the xp is I think about the same as other places for the challange, just not the travel time for the xp.
And about the cr times, for evils etc. I think a yuanti or an illithid cr in IC is much more easy (a lot) as a cr for a barbarian in UD. He needs first to go nakid through UM1, then nakid through UM2 to even reach UD. And this within 2 hours?
Evil race just should not go to IC. They should stick underground or except the risks.
I find the idea to make an item availble to a race with the best abilities and stats in the game just twinkisch. If theese items should be made, make then also plz the haste cloaks again, becouse enchanters and psi's are no longer needed for they'r darkness, so why make the enchanter then also not useless for they'r haste? If you wanne go upground, take somebody with gate/ relocate/ shift/ darkness/ etc with you.
Evil race (the ones with ultra vision) are made to be underground. If you want to go to the surface for xp or eq you except the risks of being there. Ultra vission together with the few agro's on the surface are the only disadvantage for an evil race. You get for this much better stats, a lot of inniate abilities (levitate, invisibility, faerie fire, strength to name a few).
The question if the xp is better in DK yes or no, thats not a real fair one. Its just teh collection of difrent level of mobs thats there, that makes it intrestiong so you don't need to travel much to get your xp for a level. But the xp is I think about the same as other places for the challange, just not the travel time for the xp.
And about the cr times, for evils etc. I think a yuanti or an illithid cr in IC is much more easy (a lot) as a cr for a barbarian in UD. He needs first to go nakid through UM1, then nakid through UM2 to even reach UD. And this within 2 hours?
Evil race just should not go to IC. They should stick underground or except the risks.
I find the idea to make an item availble to a race with the best abilities and stats in the game just twinkisch. If theese items should be made, make then also plz the haste cloaks again, becouse enchanters and psi's are no longer needed for they'r darkness, so why make the enchanter then also not useless for they'r haste? If you wanne go upground, take somebody with gate/ relocate/ shift/ darkness/ etc with you.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by silvea:
<B>Why should an evil go to the surface?
Evil race just should not go to IC.
I think a yuanti or an illithid cr in IC is much more easy (a lot) as a cr for a barbarian in UD.
He needs first to go nakid through UM1, then nakid through UM2 to even reach UD. And this within 2 hours?
Evil race just should not go to IC.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You're right, we should never go on the surface, ever. Let's add this to 'help rules': "no ultravision is alowed on the surface on penalty of immediate deletion"
I hereby humbly beg for forgiveness for all the times I have been to IC. I have sinned, all evils have sinned, we have no right to ever go there, and we won't from this point on.
You're right, barbarian CRs are a lot easier than yuan-ti CRs, I suppose you know all about it.
Gee I must have missed all those barbs walking around the UD solo, somehow all I see is big groups who whack Goortok to get in in 5 mins, or take a gate and get there in 10. Oh FYI, you can walk UM1 and UM2 in 15 mins max.
[This message has been edited by cherzra (edited 06-22-2001).]
<B>Why should an evil go to the surface?
Evil race just should not go to IC.
I think a yuanti or an illithid cr in IC is much more easy (a lot) as a cr for a barbarian in UD.
He needs first to go nakid through UM1, then nakid through UM2 to even reach UD. And this within 2 hours?
Evil race just should not go to IC.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You're right, we should never go on the surface, ever. Let's add this to 'help rules': "no ultravision is alowed on the surface on penalty of immediate deletion"
I hereby humbly beg for forgiveness for all the times I have been to IC. I have sinned, all evils have sinned, we have no right to ever go there, and we won't from this point on.
You're right, barbarian CRs are a lot easier than yuan-ti CRs, I suppose you know all about it.
Gee I must have missed all those barbs walking around the UD solo, somehow all I see is big groups who whack Goortok to get in in 5 mins, or take a gate and get there in 10. Oh FYI, you can walk UM1 and UM2 in 15 mins max.
[This message has been edited by cherzra (edited 06-22-2001).]
The next quote is NOT a real quote.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by cherzra:
<B>I literally delete a word from those lines.
[This message has been edited by cherzra (edited 06-22-2001).]</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
As you can see Cherzra I quote you also perfectly. I only take parts of your post and remove the context compleetly. So now it looks like you are telling you deleted stuff when you quote. This is wat I see you always do, not so extreem as in the example but you do it often.
Also I'm getting fed up with you basic remarks "You do not know" "You do not know about what you are talking". And more of thoes remarks as if you and a few others are some bunch of elite people who only my make comments about sertain situations.
But please stop this elite stuff that makes out 90% of your arguments and posts. It is not true and never will be true that only you and a few elites chosen by you can make remarks about evils.
And if you disagre and don't know what to say or give arguments about it why, then don't post, or just post: "I disagre with you silvea, Cherzra" This would impress me, a major player, just telling me he disagrees without the flames etc. That would make me think, reread all arguments, and if needed refrace my arguments.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by cherzra:
<B>I literally delete a word from those lines.
[This message has been edited by cherzra (edited 06-22-2001).]</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
As you can see Cherzra I quote you also perfectly. I only take parts of your post and remove the context compleetly. So now it looks like you are telling you deleted stuff when you quote. This is wat I see you always do, not so extreem as in the example but you do it often.
Also I'm getting fed up with you basic remarks "You do not know" "You do not know about what you are talking". And more of thoes remarks as if you and a few others are some bunch of elite people who only my make comments about sertain situations.
But please stop this elite stuff that makes out 90% of your arguments and posts. It is not true and never will be true that only you and a few elites chosen by you can make remarks about evils.
And if you disagre and don't know what to say or give arguments about it why, then don't post, or just post: "I disagre with you silvea, Cherzra" This would impress me, a major player, just telling me he disagrees without the flames etc. That would make me think, reread all arguments, and if needed refrace my arguments.
I disagree with you silvea.
Ok got that out of the way.
{BEGIN Quote Lecture>}
I think you need to look up the definition of a quote silvea. Cherzra's quotes in his post were perfectly taken word for word from your post. When one quotes a work, one does not take the entire work.
If I were to quote : "Et tu, Brute! Then fall, Caesar." from "The Life and Death of Julies Caesar" I would not begin with "Hence! home, you idle creatures get you home:" and several hundred pages later end with: "To part the glories of this happy day."
{END Quote Lecture}
The term "Elite" seems to be thrown at any player who has a group of friends that they group with on a regular basis. Oh and the most important attributes of a so-called "Elite", they have to be higher level, and have better equipment than you.
A person who has more knowledge than someone else about a situation can very truthfully say "You do not know". I am positive that Cherzra has more knowledge of playing a Troll than you. He has more experience in dealing with the hardships of being evil than you.
Have you ever stopped to consider that maybe, just maybe, you really don't know? It isn't a crime. Oh, and for god's sake use the damn spell checker.
------------------
Rausrh licks you.
[This message has been edited by Rausrh (edited 06-22-2001).]
Ok got that out of the way.
{BEGIN Quote Lecture>}
I think you need to look up the definition of a quote silvea. Cherzra's quotes in his post were perfectly taken word for word from your post. When one quotes a work, one does not take the entire work.
If I were to quote : "Et tu, Brute! Then fall, Caesar." from "The Life and Death of Julies Caesar" I would not begin with "Hence! home, you idle creatures get you home:" and several hundred pages later end with: "To part the glories of this happy day."
{END Quote Lecture}
The term "Elite" seems to be thrown at any player who has a group of friends that they group with on a regular basis. Oh and the most important attributes of a so-called "Elite", they have to be higher level, and have better equipment than you.
A person who has more knowledge than someone else about a situation can very truthfully say "You do not know". I am positive that Cherzra has more knowledge of playing a Troll than you. He has more experience in dealing with the hardships of being evil than you.
Have you ever stopped to consider that maybe, just maybe, you really don't know? It isn't a crime. Oh, and for god's sake use the damn spell checker.
------------------
Rausrh licks you.
[This message has been edited by Rausrh (edited 06-22-2001).]
okay i know i'm not your typical new player
but from my experience when i start playing evil it was more difficult to lvl than when i was a goodie. reason being: i didn't know the evils area/hometown like i knew goodie xp
when discussing difficult lvls u have to take into consideration of knowledge.
cleric can do a astral cr easier than a lot of other classes cuz of word of recall, but it doesnt mean its better class than warrior just different
xp is very comparable: (advantage)
goodie ms wizzie vs evils has bs (goodie)
goodie wd vs evil drow hometown (evil)
but both can do tf/hp/tower/ship/bg/bgr/ic
ultravision: i think this is the deciding factor that makes life hell for me. not being able to see on the surface. even w/ the best knowledge not being able to see really hurts. an item or spell that allows u to see in daylight is bad. if u do it i would love it, but there will be less yuan. why play a yuan if ultra are going to be able to see in daylight. go ahead make all the arguments u want but:
1) why lose legs, foot & ears so u can get vipermind & scaleskin? charmed snakes?
2) easier hometown for all ultra compare to hyssk
everytime i'm in light i regret not playing yuan but playing an ultra is much easier until u get to higher lvls. squid lets u see in light, enchant allows u 1 room, not sure if shaman can change weather like before
but how many of you never run off somewhere by yourself (quest/explore/running to xp)
but from my experience when i start playing evil it was more difficult to lvl than when i was a goodie. reason being: i didn't know the evils area/hometown like i knew goodie xp
when discussing difficult lvls u have to take into consideration of knowledge.
cleric can do a astral cr easier than a lot of other classes cuz of word of recall, but it doesnt mean its better class than warrior just different
xp is very comparable: (advantage)
goodie ms wizzie vs evils has bs (goodie)
goodie wd vs evil drow hometown (evil)
but both can do tf/hp/tower/ship/bg/bgr/ic
ultravision: i think this is the deciding factor that makes life hell for me. not being able to see on the surface. even w/ the best knowledge not being able to see really hurts. an item or spell that allows u to see in daylight is bad. if u do it i would love it, but there will be less yuan. why play a yuan if ultra are going to be able to see in daylight. go ahead make all the arguments u want but:
1) why lose legs, foot & ears so u can get vipermind & scaleskin? charmed snakes?
2) easier hometown for all ultra compare to hyssk
everytime i'm in light i regret not playing yuan but playing an ultra is much easier until u get to higher lvls. squid lets u see in light, enchant allows u 1 room, not sure if shaman can change weather like before
but how many of you never run off somewhere by yourself (quest/explore/running to xp)
Ok, here's a question, I really have no idea... how are yuan's dex? It seems like snakes should have excellent dex, and therefore make the best rogues... but can't really remember. I played a yuan-ti assassin for a little while last wipe, but forgot his name and couldn't log him in again... heh.
Sarvis
Sarvis
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