Very Possible New Cleric Spells.

[Joth]

Well clerics have been complaining for awhile about holy word downgraded again, roles in groups, and other spells.


Anyways there is hope for us clerics.
Well after long discussions and debate, we finally came up with 2 new possible spells for clerics.

1. Chain heal

Basicly this spell works like this:
Say there is a 15 person group.
Cleric cast 'chain heal' target;
That target gets healed 200 hp, then 2 other people in the group gets healed for 150, then another 2 people gets healed for 100, then finally the last 2 people gets healed for 50. Making a totaly of 7 people getting healed.

This would be either a 9th circle quest or maybe 10th circle.

2. Group Vitality:

Basicly this would be stackable with normal vit adding 100 hp on top of the normal vit for the group.

Well that pretty much it. Hopefully the healing spell will be considered since that is what we do P-). Inaddition, we should get that area effect damage undead spells we been talking about.

[Treladian]

A cure paralysis spell would also be very nice. We've got ways to cure blindness and poison, but para is still only cured by dispel magic and you can't consent while para'd.

[rylan]

Yeah, I like that idea Joth.

Yes, a Remove Paralysis spell would be quite nice also.. maybe 4th circle.

Group vit is cool.. maybe 9th circle.

And yeah, I still like the idea of an area effect eradicate undead spell.

[rylan]

Oh.. got a question for the gods.

Since we're spamming spell ideas around, any chance you can give us feedback on ones that you don't think would fit in the mud? This way we'll have an idea how to keep our ideas banalced better and make it easier for you

[Dinggle]

how would the code know which 7 to heal, or would that be random?

i personally prefer the idea of adding a series of regenerative spells to the clerics arsenal starting at 7th circle, things that heal over time for a few minutes.

[rylan]

Yeah, the other ppl would be random.

Yes, I think some regenerative type spells would be very nice also.

[Xyd]

Ahh, yes, something very cleric-like...

(Can't remember the "official" Soj3 spell format, so it's ad-hoc...)

Spell: Greater Realm of Healing
Target: Area
Aggressive: No
Class: Cleric
Circle: 9th
Duration: Dependent on skill of caster
This spell calls on the deity of the caster to provide an area of healing. This spell increases the regeneration rate of those affected by the spell at an amount determined by the caster's skill level.

Of course, this could imply that there might be a Minor Realm of Healing as well. I might be bold enough to suggest a Greater Realm of Degeneration for evils that severely affects or perhaps reverses the regeneration process on your foes.

Rylan, I'm with ya on the Remove Para. If Remove Para isn't possible (balance, etc.), then I'd like to see all attempted actions generate some sort of message to the other players in the room so they have a clue that you're para'ed:

Xyd tries to do something but seems to be paralyzed!

This would be triggered by any movement, casting, hit/kill/bash, etc. but not any "personal" type command like a social, eating, get all bag, etc.

.xyd

[Xyd]

Okay, I'm either on a roll or I'm getting tired. Or perhaps some combination thereof.

I would like to see clerics get the opportunity to dedicate themselves to a deity which would give them some other innate ability or perhaps some special spell. The dedication would be final and not reversible. I'm not up on all the possible deities, but there would be a choice of perhaps a half dozen each with its own set of benefits and negatives.

One option might give good-aligned clerics another protection type spell and reduce damage of offensives (if that's possible!) . Another might give evil clerics some sort of mega-harm spell (that actually works) but might reduce their healing power. Another might provide an innate holy word that has no lag. Another might give the clerk an angel (good-align) or demon (evil-align). (Clerics with pets?! Ack!) You get the picture.

Perhaps this would cause a conversion much like Necro to Lich -- a class change that some would do and others would not. So a cleric would become a High Priest and may have severe penalties for certain actions (aggression on a mob, alignment shift, etc). Clerics would again be a very fun class to play.

.xyd

[izarek]

I dunno about more healing spells. Seems like overkill, but I'll leave that to the experienced clerics. Here's my suggestion:
Blade Barrier. A spell which is a weaker version of a mage's ice/fire shield, but also reduces the % of switching to clerics. Let's face it, its a serious danger to clerics. Mobs switching to clerics makes a little sense, so I'm not arguing that. But its also logical that clerics would develop some protection. What better to deter them than a swirling mass of blades? Think about it.

Izzy, who is beginning to realize that he's slipped into posting ideas on the BBS again. DOH!

[This message has been edited by izarek (edited 08-06-2001).]

[Thorlin]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by izarek:
[B]I dunno about more healing spells. Seems like overkill, but I'll leave that to the experienced clerics. Here's my suggestion:
Blade Barrier. B]</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm with Izzy here, I think theres only so much you can do with healing spells before you get redundant. Maybe more defense and attack spells. Some examples from the PHB-

Atonement
Invisibility to animals
Invisibility to undead.
Astral spell
Hold Person
Free Action
Spiritual Hammer
True Sight
Heat Metal
Water Walk
Wyvern Watch
Negative Plane Protection
Regenerate
Spell Immunity

Just a couple thoughts, more spells or possibility the chance to pick a particular deity, and gain spells specific to each god after a certain level through specialization.

[Hamibugan Sinweaver]

Hehe, another cleric thread, we're like a bunch of old ladies when we get together in one subject.

I am still totally in favor of giving clerics either a spell that gives healing to the whole group in some form, or a group vit (although group vit maybe too overpowered for here.)

I like the commiting to ones god as well, although as a Duergar I have few to chose from, hehe. But obviously every cleric I think specializes in healing. So perhaps the quest/commitment would HAVE to be for another specialization of some sort. I think the quests per class right now are pretty balanced though for what they get so I don't see us getting another one.



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That is all. Peace.
Hami

[Zhadrak/Dharag]

instead of giving clerics a group vit.. give a song to bards that keeps vits up.. it will not vit people just keep it up when they sing it..

[Lnarb]

I'm all for helping classes in need out, but I also believe in priorities. Clerics wouldn't be very high on the list from what I can see (and I'm playing a cleric right now).

[Hamibugan Sinweaver]

Uh?? Lnarb? Granlor??, I may be mistaken but if those are one in the same who the hell u playing as?

Hami/Draxt

[Jurdex]

My ideas from playing a cleric in 2nd and 3rd edition D&D and on the mud..


BREAK ENCHANTMENT
Spell.

Area of effect: <victim>
Aggressive: N/A
Cumulative: N/A
Duration: Instantaneous
Class/Circle: Cleric 6th
Type of spell: Generic

Frees subject of all types of enchantments, alterations, curses, and petrification. This includes silence and paralysis.

BLADE BARRIER
Spell.

Area of effect: Room
Aggressive: Yes
Cumulative: N/A
Duration: Instantaneous
Class/Circle: Cleric 8th
Type of spell: Invocation

The priest creates a barrier of blades that encircle him dealing damage to all foes in the room.

MIRACLE
Spell.

Area of effect: <victim>
Aggressive: No
Cumulative: N/A
Duration: Instantaneous
Class/Circle: Cleric 10th
Type of spell: Healing

The priest calls upon the favor of his deity to bless the intended target with his God's power. Miracle fully restores the individual it is cast upon to full health.


Thoughts?

Jurdex
Dornax

[rylan]

That 10th circle 'Miracle' spell would definately rock.

Break enchantment is cool too... is that kind of like a dispel magic though? Or does it just remove 'harmful' type spells on a player.

I've been for a blade barrier type spell for a while.
And I think it would be -very- helpful to have a healing type spell that does fully heal. Its kinda dissapointing when you full heal the tank and it only does 350hps because specialize had a bad roll, and the tank gets smacked for more than that the next round.

10th circle for miracle, yup. And I'd strongly suggest having it be a quest spell due to its power... in fact I could see it being a pretty cool quest. Not sure on casting time.. either quick cast (like 2 star) or full heal length. I really like the miracle spell idea if you can't tell
Hopefully this would fit in with the whole balance thing

[This message has been edited by rylan (edited 08-07-2001).]

[Joth]

Miracle sounds really cool, and would fit. Basicly I just see clerics beening the ultimate healers, and bane against undead.

As to Chain Heal, it would be for the target inbetween a normal heal and and full heal because starting out at 200. In addition the the other 6 people it heals would be random, possible trying to heals though with full health.

As to group vit being a bard type song I think that would be decent idea too P-).

[This message has been edited by Joth (edited 08-07-2001).]

[Malacar]

Group Vitality!

Greater Vitality!

or...

Succubus' Consort Supreme... Makes the cleric caster the Suckabus' bitch for 12 game hours!


------------------
Malacar - French kissin midgets, and damn proud of it. Oh yeah... My comments can offend you now, I don't care anymore. Have a day.

[Wargo]

Personally I think there is enough healing spells with cleric as is. If new spells should be considered, I think they should be of spellcast protection or others instead of healing, giving clerics more variety and more dimensions.

Yssilk

[Jurdex]

Miracle would allow flexibility with clerics. Consider that shaman still have gheal. One of the most powerful healing spells. Clerics should have the ability to fully heal their party members.

It would allow flexibility with vits and baby heals. Also you could maybe pray a(n) (un)holy word or two now.

Not to mention at 10th circle, the spell can still fail.

Jurdex
Dornax

[Saren]

Notice the complete lack of immortal content. I (and all the other clerics) were certainly hoping for some light at the end of the tunnel, even if it's only a match!

Saren/Lantinor

[Hamibugan Sinweaver]

I'm sure imm's read this but it has been stated many times in other posts by them that clerics have gotten about all they gonna get. I personally have found myself the most disappointed with the 9th circle. For the pre-46 lvl cleric days I'm sure revive was a great and all, but now it appears absolutely worthless. No player is gonna take a revive when their corpse can be portaled out and pressed and ressed and a later date.

And then there's pshift. Great spell and always fun and useful....except here, heh. Especially as an evil it's a pointless spell, when you have invokers and enchanters that just gate, and squids that just rift. Without a class that has a direct portal spell it's just of no use really. You don't see many clerics mindlessly wandering the planes alone afterall.

Overall I think 9th and 10th circles both need a new spell. But 9th definitely needs an overhaul period.

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That is all. Peace.
Hami

[Joth]

Well hopefully the staff will consider this ideas, I like miracel and Chain heal idea, but group vit item, that stacks on normal vit, that would be cool for bard then clerics I think.

[Jurdex]

Agreed, Hami.

9th circle is basically useless right now.

Eventually mages with con loss will want revives over ress, but not for a long time.

Blade Barrier could be put in 9th circle.

I've mentioned holy word could be moved to 9th circle.

Perhaps add Miracle and move greater realms to 9th circle..

Plethora of possibilities..

Dornax
Jurdex

[Hamibugan Sinweaver]

I know this is an old subject but since Dornax brought it up. No matter where you put (un)holy word it's absolutely useless to evils, unless they're gonna let us run free in WD and on EM.

Me and Zip had a long discussion and came to the same conclusion I always come to that you all hate and that's that shamans are just ALL wrong, heh. And because of that I think clerics hurt. Because of that I'm most in favor of the Miracle/heal everybody a little bit spell at 10th. But I think it should go in order on down the group, from head on down. That way we still get it but it has some annoying side effects. i.e. causing leaders to arrange group properly to put tanks at top of group, and the most potent part of the spell will always go to the leader which in most cases it's potentially wasted, because it's a bard or something not tanking. It'd be cool too if the potency throughout was determined by something in the quest for it, like how fast you did it or somethin crazy.

BUT, since I doubt we will ever see this because it would be just too "damaging" to the shaman class I'd settle for Blade Barrier at 9th and adding armor and bless to GRP. And with that I disagree with the group vit the more I think about it. I think group protection or enchantment spells will only lessen the need for extra clerics which are brought to lighten the spellup load.

---End Rambling, heh---

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That is all. Peace.
Hami

[Jurdex]

Hmmm..

I understand your plight, Hami, but like I've said, you're better off than an evil aligned cleric.

Holy Word is an uber spell and it shouldn't be downsized simply because others have chosen a race or alignment that does not make use of it.

Good aligned clerics can use holy word, but they must do alignment work and also don't have access to some of the better hit point items (silver bands, headband of a thousand eyes)...

There are benefits and detriments to every class when you throw in alignment. You pick it, you play it, right?


Dornax
Jurdex

[Hamibugan Sinweaver]

Told u it was a sore subject I am in no way saying downgrade at ALL. I'm saying moving proves nothing, evil clerics would still have a 100% useless 9th circle. I accept (un)holy word the way it is. I'd rather have a useful 9th and a funner 10th. I only brought it up as a point, I forget I even have that spell most of the time.

I will disagree with the point that you take the hits for what you play. "sides" and "races" are your choice, you shouldn't have a totally useless spell just because you're evil. It comes down to the way the games made, and let's face it there are WAY more evil scum running around than there are goodie pukes.

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That is all. Peace.
Hami

[Jurdex]

Point taken about moving the spell.

However, I still disagree.

People choose alignment and races for the benefits and disadvantages.

Unholy word not being as useful because of a lack of high level goodie mobs is just one disadvantage.


Jurdex
Dornax

[Hamibugan Sinweaver]

Please name one other spell in the entire game that is "disadvantaged" because of alignment or race?

You choose alignments to get certain racial or class percs i.e. Ogre size or str. Druid or Psi.

I'm not turning this into an (un)holy word bitch session. Goodies seem to fight for it because I'm sure it's a very powerful useful spell. So I in no way want to see the spell changed, I'd just like to see it useful to evils. It's the ONLY spell in the game (that I can think of) that is disabled like this.

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That is all. Peace.
Hami

[rylan]

Well, on the same side, as evils you won't be getting unholy worded in most zones now.

Only other spell I can think of at the moment is command undead.. it is only castable by evil clerics.

[Hamibugan Sinweaver]

I wasn't aware of the command undead thing. I've never even tried to use it infact. And why wouldn't we get unholy worded? Even if so I don't really think that's justifiable. You might not get totem darted or force missiled in a zone either, should we disable it?

I did a bit of research on my own last night on what good aligned mobs I could find, I have no idea what it was like before the last downgrade cause I didn't have it but it seems nearly useless now, I only remember everyone saying how cool it looked in testing and right after opening.

Out of 14 unholy words cast on the Priestess of Selune not one para'd, blinded or caused any other adverse effects and did no notable damage that I could see.

So my stand has changed: move it, up it, AND make it useful.

I'd like to make a small request if I could. Could we maybe get some imm input on this stuff? Is it being looked at? Are we wasting our time and BBS space?

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That is all. Peace.
Hami

[Jurdex]

Holy Word after the mud came up did 180-240 damage (my spellcast invocation at the time was above average to good). It had a chance to blind, stun and para lower level mobs. It was easier to stun than to blind, easier to blind than to para.. make sense?

Holy word was deemed to be too powerful. The damage was cut in half. It did about 90 damage and the effects (stun, blind and para) happened far less frequently.

Then it was noticed that holy word could not be saved against. This was changed. If a mob saved against holy word, it did about 40 damage.

Then holy word was again modified where there was lag associated with the spell.

I agree.

Balance it?

Make it useful?

Its one of the uber spells a cleric will ever get.


WRATH OF GOD
Spell.

Area of effect: <victim>
Aggressive: Yes
Cumulative: No
Duration: Instantaneous
Class/Circle: Cleric 9th
Type of spell: Invocation

The priest calls upon the wrath of his/her deity by pointing towards the intended victim and shouting out the name of his/her God.

"Feast upon the Wrath of Moradin!"

Dornax
Jurdex

[Hamibugan Sinweaver]

90?? and 40 saved??

Phear me for I am the great cleric of...oh wait I suck, nm. heh.

[rylan]

snicker.. yeah, as I've said a few tiems, high lvl clerics don't even bother praying holy word, even if we don't need all full heals.. it just isn't worth it as dornax pointed out.

[Hamibugan Sinweaver]

Heh, with 4 almost 5 full time ressers and zones taking up 90% of the who list on average. Maybe I should roll a useful needed class.

[Galok Icewolf]

Personally.. I actually like the idea of spiritual hammer at 9th circle. It can be sorta like tazeriks frenzied hound.. where it hits once a round for 3 rounds. Something like that.. so clerics have a little more damage.

[izarek]

After finally getting back into some zoning, ya know what spell I'd like to see? Some kind of spell that boosts the duration of defensive spells ticking away. Its quite annoying when the spellup is just about done and the group is about ready to go when you see:

>>>Globe out<<<
>>>Stone out<<<
>>>Blur out<<<

If enough of these happen, then ya gotta start over again. Yeah, I know good planning and enough capable casters prevents this. I still think it'd be a useful spell and I'm trying to suggest something other than healing spells.

Izzy

[Hamibugan Sinweaver]

Ok, I put a few days thought into this and even though I'm totally fed up with this class really, I'll put one last jumble of suggestions. I perused the other cleric "type" posts and saw one, yes one, positive god response from Shevy. It's lovely to spout ideas at each other, but alas, we can't implement anything, heh. So until I see that we are or aren't making useful suggestions I'll leave it at these suggestions.

First- Take all effects out of revive. Make all players that reach max 50 notch exp loss from death quartered and it kicks back to normal loss at 25%. This will make revive popular again in a hurry down the road when people are actually achieving max notch, but since many will not achieve max notch it won't be getting overly abused, this will give you the luxury of not wasting 30 minutes in a zone when you lose a few people in a room. Revive and move on, yeah the exp was lost, but it can be made up as it isn't 5 or 6 hours worth that you lost.

Second- Put an offensive spell, doesn't matter which one really (there's been alot of good suggestions) at 9th. Put a spell statiating spell at 10th.

Third- Change the alignment of some of the mobs so I don't have one totally useless spell.

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That is all. Peace.
Hami

[sok]

I have figured out what the problems w/ this wipe's cleric. you guys actually like to cast your spells. it seems i have failed in my training of these new generations of healers. here are the rules you clerics need to live by:

rule #1: if u doing xp, get a 2nd cleric to join the group, so u can afk and your tank will still live. best xp for me is between 2-6 am, when i'm asleep.

rule #2: if tank ask for spells (armor, vit, etc) tell them there are potions available.

rule #3: if u zoning, make sure u bring 2 other clerics, that why they can keep group alive and u can afk to shower/eat/nap/watch t.v. etc. when group done w/ zone u can come back to bid on eq if u are bidding.

rule #4: if u zoning and have to cast heals and you are getting overrun by lots of mobs, full heal self 1st that way you live and hopefully mobs can kill off some of your group members, thus leaving more xp for you. an added bonus if they kill off those dang warrior types u can keep up w/ them in lvls. (that's what they get for lvling so fast.)

rule #5: if tank ask why u didn't heal them, tell them that u were only had 1* left to go but they died b4 u had the chance

rule #6: if u can recall dont be afraid to use it, but alway say whoop! i accidentally hit the recall macro.

follow these rules and your mud life will be more enjoyable. just make sure they dont catch u laughing at their misfortune or else u might be the more who gets R.I.P.

dornax -psycho cleric-

(don't want to prosecute yourself *wink*)

[rylan]

rofl :P

[kiryan]

rylan you laugh, but hes not kidding!

[Jurdex]

Laugh.

Sok, you rule, man.

My first experience with Sok's rules was during an invasion run. This was back when the way to stop beards from casting was having a buncha giantbanes on you and hope you proc them. Anyway, it was pretty frantic as Sok and I were the only clerics. Well, after a good while on the grid I've exhausted all my heal spells and we barely managed to survive a fight. When I see this:

Sok group-says 'u good cleric dornax'
You group-say 'thanks'
Sok group-says 'yah, i didnt have to cast at all so far'



Dornax
Jurdex

[Nitania]

HAHAHAHHAA sok rules!!!

My first experience with him was when I was truly truly new about 6 years ago, it was my first jot group.

Sok group-says 'who is this newbie following me and who brought her?'

it was funny in retrospect...

hugs sok

Nitania

[moritheil]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Treladian:
A cure paralysis spell would also be very nice. We've got ways to cure blindness and poison, but para is still only cured by dispel magic and you can't consent while para'd.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I saved our group stoner's life today by dispelling him. Didn't have consent. para code has been fixed, I think, to allow para dispel by groupies w/o consent.

Oh, and why do druids not have cure blind? I'm not sure if we have cure poison either... Seems kind of odd to me.

[moritheil]

Sok r0x0rs. Heh, it's hard to believe I got mistaken for him once, but then once I read his philosophy of being a cleric, I realized how much it mirrored what I posted up on rules for being a druid. Does anyone have a link to that, perchance? :P

It went something like:
1. Thou shalt mem word of recall before anything else; thou shalt keep word memmed. Should thy word be used, thou shalt not hesitate to mem word anon.
2. It is thy task to keep others alive; thus, if the whole group (and thyself) are plainly already dead, there is no shame in wording.
3. Thou shalt heal thyself before heading back into the room of said conflict to heal others. Otherwise thou shalt prepare to recieve many messages about fubared slots.
4. Where there is reason to believe word may be interfered with, thou shalt mem multiple words.
5. Paranoia does not exist when considering the application of the word spell.

etc...

And "afk to put a sock in sok" will always be remembered as a pithy ooc reply.

[Abbayarra]

If clerics really need a new spell,
Chain heal is the best idea I've heard.
But to make it work, it has to be truely random. That means you target the first person that you want to heal. But then the spell can heal anyone else in the room, anyone. That includes the mobs you're fighting. This makes this spell really interesting to use. Of course, if you're fighting undead, and chain heal skips to one of the mobs, then I think it should damage the undead creature it hits.
What does everyone think of that?

[Jurdex]

I honestly don't see why a God's divine power and grace would heal people randomly, especially the priest's opponent.

Dornax
Jurdex

[rylan]

Miracle.. 10th circle

[moritheil]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Hamibugan Sinweaver:
<B>I know this is an old subject but since Dornax brought it up. No matter where you put (un)holy word it's absolutely useless to evils, unless they're gonna let us run free in WD and on EM.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

*peer* I'm writing a zone involving all good mobs, which I hope to make accessible -=only=- from UD.

[moritheil]

A short-duration Regen spell could enable the cleric to give super regen to a tank while it tanked. This regen would be ostensibly even faster than troll regen, so it could save someone's life when they got critted 3x, enabling them to survive *just* a little longer before fheal hits. (am basing this off troll arena channel comments that regen is no match for getting critted mult. times)

Alternatively, since that starts to sound twinky, there could just be a "divine favor" 10th circle spell that softens crits.