Help Design a Zone!

Archive of the Sojourn3 Ideas Forum.
Cyric
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Help Design a Zone!

Postby Cyric » Tue Aug 28, 2001 4:32 pm

We try to design zones based on player requests, that is high vs. mid vs. low level, XP vs. equipment vs. quest, and so forth. The latest request that I have seen mentioned many times is for a mid-level zoning zone...in effect, a mid-level Jot equivalent. (If you want a different type of zone, post elsewhere :P There are at least 10 zones currently underway to fill other niches/requirements.)

The basic problem with this is that high leveled players will run through, rape the zone, and sell off the equipment to rich lowbies. Well, I've figured out a way to level restrict zones such that only levels 30-40 (or so) can enter.

So here's your chance to help design it. I already have the layout of a castle (think Icecrag sorta) type zone and I have many ideas about what to include. What would you like to see? What I'm looking for are suggestions like:

-I love the manscorpions king fight...include something like that!
-I love rooms where I fall to my death...add those!
-I want a zone that requires absolutely no spellcasters...gimme that!
-More/Less traps
-More/Less wandering aggros
-More/Less quests
-More/Less puzzles

The more specific you can be, the better. "More quests" doesn't help me too much, but "More quests that require high level items being given up from difficult to reach zones" does help. You can also help by telling me what pieces of equipment are missing for that level range...is there no such thing as an evil usable cleric weapon of any value? That sorta idea.

Be creative. My ETA for this zone will be Thanksgiving.

R
Zrax
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Postby Zrax » Tue Aug 28, 2001 4:58 pm

Cyric,

This is good news and a wonderful idea. Something for lower levels that high levels cannot pound is a good thing. I think the thing that makes jot such a popular zone, other than its size and amount of items is the number of rareload items that pop there. This is also why greycloak is so popular. The dont have to be overpowered just less than common, i know i would almost rather have an item that looks cool and that not everyone has than ones that everyone has that are slightly better. I also like how greycloak doesnt pop all the items right away, this is a pretty cool feature that should be included more i think. I dont know if this helps at all, if not sorry.
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Postby rylan » Tue Aug 28, 2001 5:38 pm

Aye.. personally jot is my favorite zone, due to the randomness of the stuff on the grid, massive amount of cool rare loads, and the overall good amount and quality of eq.. plus there are quite a few -FUN- fights (2nd gatehouse, loki, thyrm, mages etc).

Unfortunately, it sucks that I'll be excluded from a new spanky zone due to my level *sniff*
Would high lvl groups really be killing a new zone when they already have eq that is better, and when here are plenty of other high lvl zones to do? I know the groups I hang with wouldn't be doing that.. we'd probably hit the zone for fun to check it out, then not bother with it since we know we don't need the eq. Only case I can think of is if we have just have a few people (not enough for big zone) and are bored, we might try to take a smaller zone out.

That said, here are some reccomendations:
-Zone detail is a must.. sure that isn't a problem since the room detail in Blip rocks. Just keep up the great work there Image
-Put in some random/rare load mobs and a few quests that require outside eq (however this may be a problem if the zone is level limited as I mentioned above).
-I like a mix of wandering aggros, plus some rooms with sentinal mobs (aka jot gatehouse type). Makes you have to pay attention on the main zone grid, and also adds some varience to the sentinal fights since stuff can walk in and spank you Image
-If the zone needs fly/levitate for some parts, please let us be able to fly in all the rooms.. sucks having to dispel flys and recast for a later part of the zone. For a mid level zone, I don't think any of the rooms should require fly/levitate.
Going along with the castle theme, you can make some water rooms, like a moat that goes around the castle with some cool aggros.
-Require some keys to get into parts of the zone to prevent people skipping certain mobs to get to the end.

Some specific eq requests...
mid-range caster sleeves (sucks still using redweaves at high level)
caster shields
tank or hitter boots
helmets/hats


PS: Where the hell is that fish-shaped key Cyric! Image
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Postby Ragorn » Tue Aug 28, 2001 5:42 pm

More rares! The zones that people did the most last wipe were Jot and Demi... both zones that were different practically every time you went in.

- Ragorn
Galorion
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Postby Galorion » Tue Aug 28, 2001 5:44 pm

Some caster sleeves, shields, leggings, or gloves would be great, the mud definitely seems to be lacking for those pieces of eq.

(*goes to smack whoever it was that made the +10hps shield from EM no-mage*)
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Postby Laxlez » Tue Aug 28, 2001 6:25 pm

Well.. I had a level 39 troll shammie on Soj1 and never zoned.. I have a level 35 drow rogue now and still haven't zoned.. so I don't really know what zoning is like, but I'll tell ya what I'd like to see....

A place where only a certain range of levels can enter (26-39 or something) would definitley be cool... It's during this range where I found myself getting absolutely no new EQ because there was nothing to do really.. and handouts were rare..

As for the zone itself, rare loads definitely would be cool.. in the few occasions that I've come across rare loads or random load quest mobs, I've always had fun trying to get someone to do them with me or find out the quest, etc..

I'd like to be able to use my thieving skills a little more often too.. I've yet to disarm or detect a trap.. and my lockpicking hasn't ever yielded something swank behind a door.. mostly, it's just getting into HP or getting shifted somewhere to attempt to pick a lock that turns out to be !pick..

As for EQ, I'd like to see a swank little 1h piercer that is wieldable in the offhand by the weaker classes.. (ie, me)..
Some earrings worth getting would be fun too.. I know I've had the same earrings since level 10..
And an about body nicer than AC9.. everyone I know either has an AC9 cloak or something crappier..

Aggros are fun when done certain ways.. I like fighting through aggros to get to certain places.. Have a nice piece of EQ be behind a locked door in a room where an aggro outside has a !rent key or something..

Well.. that's all I have for now..

Laxlez / Fierthor
Cyric
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Postby Cyric » Tue Aug 28, 2001 6:47 pm

Regarding request for "caster shields":

Anyone found this one yet?


Weight: 3 lbs, Value: 10,000 Durability: 0
AC-apply: 9 Warmth: 0 Prestige: 0
Procs: No
Affects: INT_MAX By 3
Affects: HITPOINTS By 20

Been in the game for years.

R
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Postby Malacar » Tue Aug 28, 2001 7:01 pm

I hate you Cyric. Image
Jegzed
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Postby Jegzed » Tue Aug 28, 2001 7:02 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Cyric:
<B>Regarding request for "caster shields":

Anyone found this one yet?


Weight: 3 lbs, Value: 10,000 Durability: 0
AC-apply: 9 Warmth: 0 Prestige: 0
Procs: No
Affects: INT_MAX By 3
Affects: HITPOINTS By 20

Been in the game for years.

R</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

White and pink ansi right?
gordex
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Postby gordex » Tue Aug 28, 2001 7:22 pm

I'd say vault and jot are the party favorites. Vault has many different types of fights. Variations in the fights makes it fun and the rhemos are challenging with a chance of death.
Jot is probably the best for variety. A toned down version of jot (and give it decent/good exp too) might work good (although the area spells arent exactly that great at the levels you are talking about). Having the posibility of invasion rocks with some harder mobs/better eq.
The most fun I have on a day in day out basis would be second gatehouse and braxats in TF (mini gatehouse I call it hehe). Being able to spam the room and do damage is the most fun for damage dealing casters.
Places like roots are boring for most of the group cause alot of the zone is 1 way !magic rooms. Try to stay away from 1 way rooms for the majority of the zone (might be good to have a few though to teach newer players how to fight in 1 way rooms in a serious situation).
I noticed that neutral players have issues with eq in certain slots. hp rings for neutral casters go from falcon to tit rings. Quite a big range considering scarlet rings are primary caster eq for quite some time (scarlets are also the reason many casters choose to be good at mid levels).

I think there is a lack of gloves/sleeves/legwear/boots at mid levels for casters.

Warriors also need a little something in the shield dept, so not everyone is buying pbones or questing tempos shield.

Cyric: I haven't even HEARD of a shield like that, so it might be too hard to figure out or takes too much time to obtain or both (not that I've tried since I havent heard of it :P). Also, shields like that, which are a lil more obtainable) might make casters think differently about nebulas.

Gordex - Gordex Travel Agency
cherzra
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Postby cherzra » Tue Aug 28, 2001 7:25 pm

Now that you're mentioning eq that apparently nobody has ever found.... are dbone bracelets still attainable in any way?

Sorry for the off-topic post btw! To make up for it a suggestion, make the quests in the newbie zone require items from other zones where you'd like lvl 30-40 ppl to visit. I'm sure there are lots of nice zones rarely visited Image
Galorion
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Postby Galorion » Tue Aug 28, 2001 7:33 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Regarding request for "caster shields":
Anyone found this one yet?


Weight: 3 lbs, Value: 10,000 Durability: 0
AC-apply: 9 Warmth: 0 Prestige: 0
Procs: No
Affects: INT_MAX By 3
Affects: HITPOINTS By 20

Been in the game for years.
</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was thinking of lesser stuff, maybe something on the order of +5 or +10 hps - just SOMETHING to have besides a bark shield that's not incredibly difficult to obtain.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Warriors also need a little something in the shield dept, so not everyone is buying pbones or questing tempos shield.</font>

I'd have to agree with this one as well - the world really needs a wt50 shield besides the pbone. Once a warrior/paladin gets one, anything else is useless.
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Postby rylan » Tue Aug 28, 2001 7:36 pm

Nods... personally I would really love to have a shield that is equivalent to a nebula.. same hps and AC would rock. I just think a shield is cooler than holding a ball of something.. snicker. But either way, thats a high lvl item.
And I have -no- clue what shield you're talking about Cyric.. first time I've heard of something like that. I pretty much thought that all the caster shields sucked.. even the Rose Quartz shield is only 10hps (used to be 15 or 20 hps and spellsave along with the spanky ac a while ago).

Yeah, some earrings would be nice too.
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Postby Jegzed » Tue Aug 28, 2001 7:41 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Galorion:
<B>
Warriors also need a little something in the shield dept, so not everyone is buying pbones or questing tempos shield.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'd have to agree with this one as well - the world really needs a wt50 shield besides the pbone. Once a warrior/paladin gets one, anything else is useless.
</B>


*cough*

Why would ANY warrior use a pbone, when there's this wt55 sv_spell shield around?

/Jegzed mutters something about non-exploring newbies.
Ginalir
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Postby Ginalir » Tue Aug 28, 2001 7:50 pm

Personally, I love the zonelet, SSC off of BGR. The atmosphere, and humor in that zone are top notch. I still enjoy killing that wet naked man, he deserves it.

-Sot
Galorion
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Postby Galorion » Tue Aug 28, 2001 8:06 pm

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Why would ANY warrior use a pbone, when there's this wt55 sv_spell shield around?</font>

And what level does one need to be to be able to do whatever it is to get this shield?

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">/Jegzed mutters something about non-exploring newbies.</font>


Please keep in mind that not all of us have been playing this game for years on end. My knowledge of the world is expanding slowly week by week - I played on old Soj 1 until about 1995, but then hadn't been back until this past May. I've seen a lot of items flood into WD over the past few months, but have never seen anyone look for or sell a warrior shield better than a pbone.
Jegzed
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Postby Jegzed » Tue Aug 28, 2001 8:09 pm

RE: Galorion.

That shield is from a zone nobody hardly ever does.. I'd guess a small group of 5 people or so could get it.
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Postby Gort » Tue Aug 28, 2001 8:19 pm

Things like one way rooms, and mobs that either roar, or cast fear so you have the flee aspect with the possibility of moving into another aggro room would help train mid level people how to deal with these issues, and any others that they will hit in the main zones. Rares are awesome, as are quests, I'm working on about a dozen quests atm. GN is great that way. I like many of the equ suggestions above, and really have none of my own at this time.


Toplack
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Postby Zrax » Tue Aug 28, 2001 8:51 pm

A warrior with master bash can nofail bash standing mobs with a shield with a much lower weight than 50. I wouldnt be caught dead using a pbone, it sucks compared to benefits of other shields like Serpent and hammer or frostmaiden, or polished rose quartz i use for tanking. hey there is a +10 hit point, ac 15 shield from everyones favorite controversial zone.
Galorion
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Postby Galorion » Tue Aug 28, 2001 8:58 pm

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I'd guess a small group of 5 people or so could get it.</font>

A group of what level people? Image
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Postby Lurgo » Tue Aug 28, 2001 9:17 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Cyric:
<B>Regarding request for "caster shields":

Anyone found this one yet?


Weight: 3 lbs, Value: 10,000 Durability: 0
AC-apply: 9 Warmth: 0 Prestige: 0
Procs: No
Affects: INT_MAX By 3
Affects: HITPOINTS By 20

Been in the game for years.

R</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There's one in game at the moment! But aside from style, wouldn't you rather be holding nebulas?

Woops, guess I should add input to the thread. It looks like some people are against putting in 1ways but I say put in at least 1 section. Make the section have like 2 big hitpoint mobs that won't hit too hard. This gives warriors/hitters the incentive to do 1way to do more damage and learn 1way technique at the same time.

[This message has been edited by Lurgo (edited 08-28-2001).]
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Postby Jurdex » Tue Aug 28, 2001 9:41 pm

Eyewear for casters!

Turtleshell is 10hps and its only attainable by evils.. Purple Silk is 15hps -4svsp and its only attainable by evils..

Add an equivalent turtleshell to the zone..

If this zone is going to be geared towards mid-levelers, I would suggest implementing fights that will prepare them for later exploration..

Perhaps have a caster on the moat where he can't be bashed, you'll need to devise a way to defeat the foe..

Then when you storm the gates you'll perhaps have archers showering arrows down on you while a buncha warrior mobs rush in to fend off the slaughter..

Also, perhaps the grid will be the courtyard where rares pop up and the quests all tie together from that zone and others of its equivalent (hp, ic, dusk, etc) while having guards roam about..

Then you can make the throne room a bit buffer than a mahdrel fight?

Dornax
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Postby Tasan » Tue Aug 28, 2001 9:50 pm

As someone who has spent countless hours building for other places(mind you while soj was down, or not fun Image), I can offer up some good suggestions I hope.

Firstly, mid-level zones should require no more than 12 people to do, but no less than 7. I would assume that this would allow for a great variety of people to be able to go with on a trip, and hopefully there would be rewards for all who went.

Secondly, rareloads are ALWAYS a feature of the best zones. Elder Forest on EM is probably the best 10-20 zone I've ever seen. Beautiful descripts, great quests, only real problem is the running to kill things and ability to camp: see next pnt.

Make the zone accessible only after some involvement with another quest, or time consuming task, i.e. goortok/ud/village to get to Blip. Makes people think twice about going, CR isn't so easy, but rewards are that much better because it took effort to get stuff.

I would like to see more variety in equipment, even if items are the exact same stats as another item in game, but different ansi, restricts perhaps. Finding something that is !human !dwarf adds a bit to keep everyone from looking the same.

As for types of encounters/fights: I think it is really good to add procs, everyone loves to see some strange thing happen instead of "you bash 1.cleric, I'll bash 2.". Also teaches people to be aware of things not ordinary. Another great things is wandering assisters, as long as there aren't too many. They help younger war types to learn to recognize when a caster is getting beaten upon and spices up fighting.

Another thing I find interesting sometimes, a choice made by the group. Say there are 2 different mages fighting for power within the castle, each wants to do away with the other, and for doing so, grants you access to a different part of the castle. Each time you can only choose one route. Another way to add spice to normal kill, kill, kill stuff.

One last note, I find a lot of eq in some of the older zones that doesn't seem to go with the theme of the mob or zone at all. It's nice when objects help flesh out an area's history/mechanics.

I look forward to dying in new zones, but I PHEAR not your blackhole of elven doom, Cyric Image

Twyl
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Postby sok » Tue Aug 28, 2001 10:26 pm

one of my favorite mid-lvl zone is Evermoor. there is wandering aggro mobs. mobs track to fights and there are shaman w/shield that cast aggros. making a zone similiar to this would be awesome. also making a grid around the castle where another aggro army is camped outside waiting to invade would rock as well.

equipment:
fire prot earrings

quest:
it would be cool if some of the eq from this zone while not really having great stats can be taken to a more difficult zone and quest to give a better item. example. lets say u ahd the earrings u take it to brass and give to some mob who give ya a earring for 5 hp and fire prot.

make quest eq come from rarely done zones. citadel, kuo toan, nizari, grey cloak

sok
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Postby Malacar » Tue Aug 28, 2001 10:28 pm

Ok, I guess I'll add constructive 2 cents.

Mobs that are HUMAN sized. I was sooooo tired of 80million high level !bash mobs. It's fun and all... Til you come across #500, then it just gets old.

Quests are fun, but for those of you that don't have time for quests(which includes me), rares are better.

Large, grid-like areas are my favorite. With tons of wandering mobs. However a goodly number of 'static' loads, IE powerful guys with decent loot, are essential. Gotta give them something to go up there for aside from just rares/quests.

One BIG area(read tough) at the end, sorta like the 'climax' area. Something that a group of well balanced folks could take with moderate effort, but an underpowered group would take a lot of effort and time.
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Postby Hamibugan Sinweaver » Tue Aug 28, 2001 11:48 pm

Good aligned mobs plz!!!!!



------------------
That is all. Peace.
Hami
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Postby Galorion » Tue Aug 28, 2001 11:49 pm

I would say have at least pieces of the zone be doable for a group of 4-7 with maybe a major section that requires a group of 6-10 max. This would help the mid-level players get used to larger groups without having the headaches associated with 12-15 players in a group.

I also like the idea of quests/rares, it makes a zone a lot more interesting to play in.

On the topic of storyline/zone layout, maybe have a region of land where there are 2 opposing houses fighting over the region, each with their own castle. One castle could be good aligned, the other evil aligned and the players can choose which side to help out.


[This message has been edited by Galorion (edited 08-28-2001).]
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Postby izarek » Wed Aug 29, 2001 12:48 am

Here's some things I'd like to see in this here castle of yours:

* Like mentioned above, make the zone useful for both eq *and* exp. Jot and IC are great examples of this. Be sure that there are enough classed mobs (grid zones arent used for this reason, as you know). The most well-used exp zones have unique mobs (meaning if you kill four guards in different spots they arent all counted as the same in your trophy). The better eq zones have a broad assortment of gear, aimed at both caster and non-casters.

* Do stuff like invasion, but with a twist! What I mean is have it so that the castle zone sometimes loads with an attacking army. If the castle is good aligned then the attacking army would be evil aligned and aggr to good players. At other times, the castle zone cand load with a standing army (assembled to fight some imaginary foe) or some visiting merchants or priests (something good aligned for evils to smite). Including times when neither loads, that would give 3 different flavors to the zone.

* Vaults. Everyone loves some tough inner sanctum that requires a good-sized group and strategy to defeat for a good reward.

* EQ. Make sure theres some caster and non-caster eq. Mid level casters could use some gloves, shields, legwear, sleeves and booties at mid-levels.

* Quests, Rares, hidden items and Secret rooms. One of my favorite low lvl zones is the Elder Forest on Evermeet. In addition to mobs that mostly fit the scene and an overall history to the place (there's gotta be a link to BGR!!!), its full of quests, rares, and secret rooms. It was such a fun place to explore! Too bad some of the quests are broken...

* Along the same lines, give the zone a good, tight storyline or theme. That way you have a better understanding of the who the mobs are and why they're there. Helps alot with quests. Personally, I hate quest mobs that require very specific, obscure keywords with no logic behind them. Also, make sure the storyline fits within the FR theme! A good example of a castle fitting within the FR theme would be to write up a zone based on the Wyvernspur family in Cormyr. There you have an extensive noble estate (i.e. the castle), the nearby village, the crypts on the wyvernspur estate and the surrounding countryside. Invasions could come from the wyvernwater to the east or the kings forest to the west. Of course, I'm sure the wyvernspur family would have a nice set of treasure, including a rare-load wyvernspur *lick*. The invasion loads I mentioned above would be obvious here. The invading army would be a goblinoid army from the stonelands to the north. And the alternative load could be a patrol of purple dragons being assembled to fight them. This is all off the top of my head, but you get the point.

* Safe/heal room. Not critical, but its a nice touch.

* Don't make it too hard to get to or into. The temple of Billypoop is a beautiful zone. But I rarely want to spend the time to get into it. Goortok isn't so bad, and using wb is fine. But spending the time dealing with the aggr kuo's outside in addition is damn annoying. My point is, if you want the zone to be well used, then dont go overboard on making the zone inaccessible.

* Along the same lines, use one-way rooms sparingly and wisely. If you're gonna use them, make sure there's a purpose (i.e. to make a specific battle hard). The one-way rooms with guards at the beginning of the castle on the moonshaes is an example of a needless set of one-way rooms. They're just plain annoying!

Hmm. That's it for now.

Izzy
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Postby Dinggle » Wed Aug 29, 2001 2:52 am

Detail and a good plot line helps. comedy is better i think.

a few low level procing weapons. lord knows how much we all love procing weapons. a few mage/priest/rogue ones in particular. along the lines of dark steel dirk enchanted stats

a massive side area that you have to search out and take a full party with your (keep in mind that globes would be scarce in the levels mentioned, and there will be no ghealing)

traps! must have traps, and not the kind that do 1000 damage when you fail to disarm them. maybe the kind that stun you for 3 whole minutes or knock you out like headbutt. or just drain all your moves.

mini quests. nothing huge and needing you to leave the zone. well maybe just one like that. but a lot of little quests (the very vain queen lost her mirror. she thinks her troll of a daughter stole it just to spite her and she'll reward you if you can bring it back to her) that tie into the overall plotline.

one badass mob that requires you to get a queset for a !rent key or item to get to and kill. something making whatever group that wants to try it have to do whole zone.

making a series of sentinel xp mobs like ship, but geared more for levels 26-40 (ie mobs level 45-50 prob)

i was able to use the dg scripting system to keep high levels outta my mid and newbie zones. used a room scripts that checked levels of those who entered and booted them if they too high. script was in all rooms so folks couldnt use magic to bypass entry rooms.

wasnt hard, but on an unstable codebase mud crashed lots Image
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Postby Wargo » Wed Aug 29, 2001 7:07 am

Mazes man! Gotta love them eerie looking zones with endless teleport spots and looping hallways. The favorite zones are UM1, UM2, and Labrynth of No Return because of that reason (The white maze in demi is a little too excessive because of the whole silence thing).

Here is an idea for the castle: What about a Hall of Mirrors. Make the rooms look as if there are exits but some of them can't be accessed because it's blocked off some mirrors. I think you can do this by linking all the mirror rooms together but put in some unseen !kill mirror (mob) to prevent players from going in certain directions. I would make a new character and level him up just to go explore it!

As far as equipment is concerned, what about some water breath item that's not for the ears or fingers. I mean for a snake caster, I don't have ears for earrings and losing 75hp for WB is just too much.

On a side note: How about making some snake only items. I mean there are elven only (elven collar), duergar only (mithril hammer), and dwarf only (giantbane). I'm sure there are more of those out there but I haven't seen any that is snake only. While I'm at it, what about opening up a whole new equipment slot geared for the snake race? I mean all the other races are decked out from head to toe and I have leave my tail in the cold.

Wargo/Yssilk
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Postby Gindipple » Wed Aug 29, 2001 7:49 am

Small request:
Exp is so boring, we all know this well. One thing that adds excitement to doing exp is the thrill of recovering from bad situations.
I would like to see more weapons available that area proc. Like the good ole hammer that procced chain lightning. I used to love to sit there waiting for the warrior's weapon to proc and then watch the panic ensue.
These don't have to be weapons that proc insane damage, but just enuf to make it worthy of wielding it. One that procs pris spray could be cool. There are some out there, but in the hands of lower lvl people it could help to test their abilities out to recover from bad situations better.
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Postby cherzra » Wed Aug 29, 2001 9:45 am

Pris is a real badass spell, I don't think we'll see a weapon that procs it. Especially in a lvl 30-40 zone...
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Postby Ubek » Wed Aug 29, 2001 5:18 pm

Would be nice to see a zone with 2 different align aggro mobs, basically it would change the resting points for each group and make the zone fights more or less differnent for good/evil. Ofcourse they will be able to kill most if not all the mobs in the zone, just they will have to take a different path. Example, Wandering Guards could be aggro good, and maybe at an alternate entrance to the zone would be a group of paladins ready to eh cleanse the castle so to speak. This would be the Evil entrance and goodies exit while the guards would be the goodie entrance and the evil's exit.

Fights: Mobs u have to kill in a certain order or else you'll be fighting the whole zone, ie Astral :P Lots of class mixes. Liches, Mages, Illusionists, Elementalists(?). Mobs you need to lure out of a room. Crazy proc mobs. Charm you, drag your ass off, and duke it out 1v1. Leaving your group eh screwed! Mobs that are aggro only to a certain aligned class.

Quests: Align based quest, ie Kill the Paladin Leader or the Captain of the Kings Guards.. etc etc etc... Items would be of same nature, but maybe align restricted? Spell quest for mid level Spell, ie Vampiric Curse :P

Being able to walk through the zone and poke around should be in the same manner as Astral and Ethereal.

That's all I can think of right now heh.
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Postby Jethrus » Wed Aug 29, 2001 9:24 pm

This sort of goes along with what alot of people have said in alot of different forums, but I will re-emphasize it here. I think it would be fun to have a zone with a choice of how you will do it and what you get. For example, in the castle, an invasion load outside trying to break in. Regardless of the good-evil factor, make them all non aggressive. Then have a king or something in the castle and outside have a general or whatever. Give the group the option to assist the general in besieging the castle, or the king defending his walls. Give different eq and incentives for each selection. . . although now that I think about it, I would rather have this be a high level zone because it could have alot of varations... But anyways, have it triggered so if you agree to help the general or king, the other side is automatically aggressive to you and you have to fight your way to help the side you choose. It could add RP potential for those who want it, and variety if nothing else.
-Jethrus Monk of Yore
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Postby Ashiwi » Wed Aug 29, 2001 9:43 pm

Hidden areas/objects and puzzles!!!
I love searching something out and hearing from the group "I never knew that was there..."
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Postby Kegor » Fri Aug 31, 2001 2:01 pm

I think thier are plenty of mid-level zones as is now. Most people either explore or exp at mid-level so they can get big enough to do the fun level 50 zones everyone talks about. I'd definatly have to say stop building mid level zones and focus on real fun challenging level 50 zones. This is the main reason most people play the game I think.

Also I think the eq balance of existing zones should be examined. A lot of stuff could stand to be downgraded... some upgraded. This would properly balance the utility of the item vs. the difficulty to obtain. Obviously the long quests involving rare loads and numerous tough fights are going to be the most uber of the uber.

-Jaznolg
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Postby Faedril » Fri Aug 31, 2001 5:52 pm

One thing that really frustrates me about alot of the places on the mud is that there are a ton of Mobs there but they are useless due to either code or being classless. Prime examples would be the Sister Knights of Synnoria and the xp grids. I don't think a single person has killed the sister knights in this incarnation of the came due to the call proc. They used to be very good xp mobs, and they have some mid-level useable items. I think the call proc should be deleted or changed to just call one other sister or the closest sister. (Or make Brigit be the only one able to use it to call her compatriots in case of her being attacked.) Secondly would be the XP grids. I don't think that a single person uses these areas because the mobs are classless. My suggestion would be to add classes to the mobs in these zones and let them be xp areas for small groups of 3-5. As far as a true mid level zoning There are already lots of places. Dusk road is excellent. Its even a good aligned xp area (*Pokes Evils*) that is very under-utilized. Maybe revamp some other underutilized zones to be more mid-level friendly. IE: Southern Forest. There is a ton of really good areas out there that just need some tweaking of mob levels, mob procs, agro, etc and opportunities to do things would grow by leaps and bounds. Alot of the areas in question are older areas that used to be the big zones but aren't since the inception of Jot etc. Nizari has a ton of character, but it lacks in useability. Base mob xp should be looked at. IE a level 55 who isn't aggro and doesn't have alot aggro mobs around it should be worth *alot* less xp than an aggro level 55 mob with a bunch of aggro mobs around it. A zone mob should be worth as much XP to a 15 person zone group as an xp mob is to a 4 person xp group. (But should be hard enough that is can't be twinked for power leveling.) The course I think the mud has taken was at first to have this diversity of XP from mobs but it was twinked and downgraded and now you have to put in time at places like the ship and tower and wizzies which in my hones opinion just drags on. Trophy's intent was to reduce the amount of mindless xp by making it worth less, but just seems to have had no effect since 4 hours of mindless easy xp still gives you more xp thank from cleaning out all of Jotunheim.

Anyway sorry to get so off subject.
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Postby cherzra » Fri Aug 31, 2001 6:23 pm

XP and EQ are two different things. Which is why you don't get the same xp from doing 2 hours of jot in a 15 man group as you do in a 7 man ship group. Zones are for eq. If everyone did xp in them after level 35, there is something fundamentally wrong. Making level 50 on this mud is *supposed* to be hard and long.
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Postby Jorta » Fri Aug 31, 2001 7:29 pm

I'm in support of getting 50 being hard and long, but I don't think tedious should be another element. While I do agree that currently EQ and EXP are two different objectives, I would like to see zones that do not make them mutually exclusive. Hard fought battles should be more exp than running around the tower or ship.

Something to add to the topic of this thread: In another thread, Fezbozz posted something about random loot in locked chests. At some appropriate point in this zone it would interesting to have a heavily guarded locked treasure that was fairly random. Most of the time something fair would load, sometimes nothing at all, and once in a while, something really nice Image Just to keep people looking...

Jorta
cherzra
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Postby cherzra » Fri Aug 31, 2001 7:43 pm

It's called demi.
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Postby Elseenas » Fri Aug 31, 2001 7:51 pm

Okay, back onto the topic (without dracoliches ;-)

My requests:
*Accessible to both sides of the fence (good/evil).
*Interesting descriptions
*Nothing instantly lethal.
*Sets of rareloads so that the experience is changing
*Decent midlevel eq for at least most classes
*Everyones going to hate me for this... Locks and maybe traps that a midlevel rogue without much practice could disarm Image

------------------

Elseenas of No House Worth Mentioning
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Postby Dirjornso » Sat Sep 01, 2001 4:58 pm

How about making the zone level 20-35 for restrictions.. I found that there is nothing really good for level 20-35 that I know of to exp or collect gear. How about making it a castle maze that one would have to say a word to get out of like the arena. And god damn it don't put it behind a highlevel zone that we will get killed trying to get to Image
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Postby Jegzed » Sat Sep 01, 2001 7:59 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Dirjornso:
I found that there is nothing really good for level 20-35 that I know of to exp or collect gear. </font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
*cough* TRY EXPLORE OUTSIDE WATERDEEP *cough*

Ice Crag
Havenport
Westfalls
Dusk Road

Just to mention 4 GREAT exp and eq areas for level 20-35ish.

/Jegzed
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Postby Dirjornso » Tue Sep 04, 2001 3:29 pm

Cough Cough yourself sir. All four of those zones are almost always packed or the eq taken by soloing highlevels.
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Postby Tasan » Wed Sep 05, 2001 2:14 am

Haha!.. Havenport packed? NO! Dusk road over xp'd?! NO! You living sometime other than now? I think you probably are just not sure what these zones really are. I won't even comment on the soloing, high level's Image

Twyl "Dang, that uberpaladin just solo'd cc... I so wanted an ebony :!"
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Postby Kegor » Wed Sep 05, 2001 6:21 am

Was thinking earlier today how small and pathetic that Githyanki zone was. Not at all representing or respecting the awesome power of the githyanki. This zone should be redone.. or even connect another Githyanki zone to astral of much greater size. I would enjoy that project myself... as I'm sure many others would.

Fear the Githyanki!

-Jaznolg
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Postby rylan » Wed Sep 05, 2001 12:34 pm

*nods* Twyl. In fact, I've been bored and went to dusk with one or two ppl a couple hours after a boot and the spanky eq was still there on several occasions.

Githy.. hmm.. probably not going there again for quite a while unless something with some of the mobs got tweaked.

[This message has been edited by rylan (edited 09-05-2001).]
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Postby kiryan » Wed Sep 05, 2001 5:00 pm

majority of the zone should be designed for a party of 5 because hardest part of mid level grouping is getting people to leave what they are doing and getting them together.

If its going to take me 30 minutes to get to the zone, id rather do 30 minutes of exp. Also, the twinks dont want to come because they're doing great exp with a minimalist group or with their high level friends and the eq not worth having in comparison to high level eq. Answer to the twinks, make this the best mid level exp.

I'd design portions of the zone for different group compositions. An area for mostly melee with mobs that switch a lot and have high hps but don't hit hard. An area with multiple low hp mobs to encourage damage focused casters. Solo areas and 2 man areas so that groups will be more likely to form.

Of paramount importance... you should be able to conduct a CR with minimal help. Nothing sucks worse than needing a CR and no one on who can help (especially important since high level players cant enter zone).
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Postby moritheil » Wed Nov 21, 2001 7:24 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jegzed:
<B> *cough*

Why would ANY warrior use a pbone, when there's this wt55 sv_spell shield around?

/Jegzed mutters something about non-exploring newbies.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

said warrior does not feel like going to hell and back to get it? :P

Hmm... I wonder which zone resulted from this.
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Postby Kallinar » Wed Nov 21, 2001 8:29 pm

More island zones!
More ships to have to wait on to get to them!
Make the south pole or something.
Hows about making a zone with an oriental theme? Samurai and ninjas and Yakuza oh my! Image
(Didn't they make an oriental campaign for Forgotten Realms? Or was that AD&D? Please refresh my memory.)

Kallinar (Halfbreed son of a daughter)

[This message has been edited by Kallinar (edited 11-21-2001).]

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