Give fly to other mage classes please

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Selias
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Give fly to other mage classes please

Postby Selias » Mon Apr 08, 2002 2:25 am

I think it should be given to other mages. It's a pain being the only enchanter in your group and you gotta fly everyone. It's not a very powerful spell, just used for movement saving, so it's not going to unbalance things.

Maybe there is a reason that enchanters are the only ones to get it?

sel
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Postby torkur » Mon Apr 08, 2002 2:35 am

hehe I asked if lev could work at least like a crappy fly a month ago and people said I was dumb for suggesting it, ain't gonna happen selias. Image

Just say you're not gonna do it anymore and tell em they have to wait to get a fly item. Image
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Postby kiryan » Mon Apr 08, 2002 3:39 am

bards have area fly.
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Postby Karikhan » Mon Apr 08, 2002 4:51 am

cast 'fly'

job security baby!!!


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Postby Malacar » Mon Apr 08, 2002 6:39 am

must... quest... for... mass fly... spell...

losing... consciousness...rapidly...
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Postby Jegzed » Mon Apr 08, 2002 7:08 am

You group-say, 'wear fly or die.'
You move up.

When I lead you better have fly-eq or you'll die.
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Postby Galok Icewolf » Mon Apr 08, 2002 8:09 am

Going over the maggot pit in avernus with my tia group and 5 enchanters 2 people died cause of no fly? geez that amazes me.

I don't want to see fly on other classes, theres enough items in the game to diminish the demand on enchanters.
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Postby Gormal » Mon Apr 08, 2002 8:35 am

fly has awesome duration....you can wear it...i see no problem with it as is. If I can realm a group 3-4x as much as you have to fly a group I think you'll live.
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Postby Karikhan » Mon Apr 08, 2002 1:02 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jegzed:
<B>You group-say, 'wear fly or die.'
You move up.

When I lead you better have fly-eq or you'll die.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


isn't this a given anyway?? (pet Jeggy)
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Postby Gurns » Mon Apr 08, 2002 5:36 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by kiryan:
bards have area fly.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As I expect you know but others may not, bard fly lasts only briefly, and thus will run out just in time to get you killed. Great for (most) traveling, but don't ever rely on it if you need to be flying while fighting.
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Postby Selias » Tue Apr 09, 2002 7:22 am

Yeah, the fly items are all well and good, but not everyone has one. I'm just asking because fly is in same circle as a bunch of other really good enchanter spells, so it gets to be a pain swapping them out, then memming etc.

Just a suggestion, guess the consensus is no!
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Postby Karikhan » Tue Apr 09, 2002 11:00 am

shaman stone/heal in the same circle .. i have to mem what i THINK will work at any given time .. i say its all part of knowing your class .. ie .. how long can it take a chanter to mem fly?? a few sec at MOST??

forget pris
prio fly
rest
mem fly
med

and typically the person will wait the few sec it will take to mem the spell...

i know there are a TON of awesome utility spells we shaman have, it's just not practical to have them all memmed at the same time....

person X tells you 'hey can u light someothing for me?'

(ick what evil shaman keeps a continual LIGHT spell memmed)

you tell person x 'sure hun gimme sec lemme mem it'

person x tells you 'no problem, and thanks!'


-Ambar
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Postby Corth » Tue Apr 09, 2002 1:03 pm

Err.. can illusionists have a self only fly? Image

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Postby Malacar » Tue Apr 09, 2002 6:31 pm

My quibble with fly is only that.. To do zones like Brass.. Where you must fly at all times... It is simply annoying to keep track of 15 flies.

Point in fact, at Tiamat, before the Tia zone in Avernus.. There is a (No Ground) room. I had to fly the 2 entire groups(number aside, count it as 15 for purposes of this arguement, tho the number was up around 25), and was so busy paying attention to theirs, that I neglected mine. Mine faded the second after we moved onto noground, and I went splat(woo hoo, first death!).

The duration is good. The spell itself is great. I would just like to see some flexibility on spellups for us enchanters. As it is, my hands ache every night after a zone, because I have had to cast an ungodly number of spells(yes every class does, but... wait for it...), every spellup(ahh, there's the differentiating factor). Plus check levi or fly, etc. I think a 10th circle, group fly spell that lasts 30ish minutes(fly lasts about an hour), isn't too much to ask. It inhibits dragonscales, so it would only be memmed when absolutely neccessary, and I'd be willing to go on a painful quest for this spell. I think Clouds zone would be an excellent place to put the quest or pieces of it in.
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Postby Corth » Tue Apr 09, 2002 6:52 pm

just wait til someone figures out mindblank. Even more full group spellup fun.

Corth
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Postby Yayaril » Tue Apr 09, 2002 7:59 pm

I think it would be cool if invokers got fly or any of the other mage classes. I don't think enchanters would lose out on any groups because other mages have the fly spell.


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Postby Malacar » Tue Apr 09, 2002 8:29 pm

I don't think it fits for Invokers, personally. I agree another mage class needs it, and understand that Invokers would love to have it, but I was thinking more along the lines of Elementalist, if they went the route of giving another class the spell. It fits more. Illusionist possibly(they can pretend to fly with an illusion?!?), but I think Elementalists fit the bill more.
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Postby Ashiwi » Tue Apr 09, 2002 9:05 pm

I think it fits shamans, the whole 'calling on the bird spirit' thing.
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Postby Jurdex » Tue Apr 09, 2002 9:50 pm

How is flying worse than protting an entire group?

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Postby Gindipple » Tue Apr 09, 2002 9:56 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Corth:
<B>just wait til someone figures out mindblank. Even more full group spellup fun.

Corth</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ROFL
What enchanter would want the spell, they got enough to do Image
Though I'd love to be the one to find the infamous spell.
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Postby Gormal » Wed Apr 10, 2002 3:28 am

realms lasts 1/3rd as long as fly too. I say again...stop whining about the longest duration spell in the game.

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Postby Malacar » Wed Apr 10, 2002 5:30 am

Y'know... I have to ask if either Gormal or Dornax have played an enchanter in a big zone? If not, I would ask they please both refrain from trying to compare clerics and Enchanters. They are worlds apart in my judgement, akin to comparing apples to oranges.

[This message has been edited by Malacar (edited 04-10-2002).]
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Postby Jurdex » Wed Apr 10, 2002 6:28 am

Malacar, what does having played an enchanter have anything to do with casting 1 spell on everyone in the group?

Also, I like the fact you singled out Gormal and I for our posts and not the people referring to bards or shaman!

What is the big difference between protting an entire group versus casting the fly spell on an entire group was?

Both are spells you must cast on your entire group, and many times 1 person doing it for 15 people.

Fly:
-longer cast time
-can't fail it
-rarely die because not flying
-plentiful fly eq in game

Prots:
-shorter cast time
-failable
-can lose eq if not protted correctly
-very little full prots items in game

Its very similar situations.

I can see wanting something done to haste as an enchanter, heck I am in favor of that, but not fly.

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Postby Teyaha » Wed Apr 10, 2002 6:34 am

dont worry about it taking up other 7th circle spell slots selias. you eventually have enough of them that you can always have one fly memmed.
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Postby Malacar » Wed Apr 10, 2002 6:57 am

What it has to do, Dornax, since you spoke up, and thank you for asking! Is that you don't have to deal with all the other spells we have to cast. I don't want this thread to degenerate into another ranger/rogue thread. Those are annoying, and counterproductive. As to why I singled you out? Bards are annoyingly underpowered. I try to stay off their backs whenever possible. I didn't say anything about the shaman idea, because it was... gasp... wait for it... an idea.

And as you like to say in other threads: Neither of your posts was constructive, or offered ideas. They were both extremely negative and didn't add to the overall as a whole.

If it sounds like I am nitpicking... Well I am. I'm tired of being nitpicked in other threads, so I am going to choose my battles carefully, as they say.

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Postby Jurdex » Wed Apr 10, 2002 6:59 am

My posts have most certainly been constructive, Malacar.

No one has yet answered the difference between fly and prots?

We all have spells to cast, if you have too many make your group leader bring a 2nd enchanter.

The enchanter class is the most intensive spell-casting class in the game, and its not like this is something new.

This is why most enchanters are stacked with eq.

Same as clerics.

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Postby Malacar » Wed Apr 10, 2002 7:03 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jurdex:
<B>How is flying worse than protting an entire group?
Dornax
Jurdex
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jurdex:
<B>Malacar, what does having played an enchanter have anything to do with casting 1 spell on everyone in the group?
Also, I like the fact you singled out Gormal and I for our posts and not the people referring to bards or shaman!

What is the big difference between protting an entire group versus casting the fly spell on an entire group was?

Both are spells you must cast on your entire group, and many times 1 person doing it for 15 people.

Fly:
-longer cast time
-can't fail it
-rarely die because not flying
-plentiful fly eq in game

Prots:
-shorter cast time
-failable
-can lose eq if not protted correctly
-very little full prots items in game

Its very similar situations.

I can see wanting something done to haste as an enchanter, heck I am in favor of that, but not fly.

Dornax
Jurdex
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I fail to see how either of these offer constructive ideas...Though, perhaps the latter to some extent after my reply, offers something moderately constructive. I will concede that. The former was what my original post to you was about.

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Postby kiryan » Wed Apr 10, 2002 7:09 am

if your tired of flying groups make the bitches wear fly eq, or bring a fukin bard. half the reason bards are completely useless is that people treat them like they are useless.

if you insist on giving fly to more classes, i insist it be basically removed from all eq. You might as well make it an innate skill for every race, only the noobs actually have trouble walking places.
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Postby Malacar » Wed Apr 10, 2002 7:17 am

These are merely ideas being tossed about, Kiryan. I think Selias was more frustrated than anything else, when he posted. I feel for him. I doubt anything in this thread will be implemented, because it's not really broken. It'd be nice, but I think it's more a fantasy than anything else(It's still nice to see ideas being bandied about, though.. Some people are hella creative. I've used a few ideas from these boards in my tabletop RPG). Image

And you're right about bards. I hope their changed get finalized soon. Image

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Postby Karikhan » Wed Apr 10, 2002 8:21 am

you made an enchater to be a spellwhore .. deal with it!!!!

god we already have it so friggin easy!! people with all their spammy *everyprotectout* triggers .. we dont USUALLY have to glance anymore to stone or blur .. we only need to watch battle for hastes .. is it so tough to LOOK room to see who isnt flying??? god forbid the warrior not do his or her job and rescue our weak asses if we cant do OUR job and protect them

imho fly is FINE the way it is now ...

try being the stoner/glober in a pkill situation .. NO warriors had stone out triggers .. you hadda watch battle to see it get broken ... (if they were unlucky enough NOT to have perm stone:P)


god this is my night to rant isnt it!!!


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Postby Malacar » Wed Apr 10, 2002 3:42 pm

Dunno what mud you play, but I have to glance every fight, and constantly. Warriors are usually too busy shieldpunching, bashing, rescuing, etc. Their triggers get delayed a few rounds, and those few rounds could cost them their lives.

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Postby Teyaha » Wed Apr 10, 2002 3:55 pm

sok too lazy to make a lot of spellout triggers, so i have to glance him a lot.

it's prob his fault i have arthritis! hehe
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Postby Karikhan » Wed Apr 10, 2002 4:06 pm

I thought i said usually??

that means not always?? sometimes??
i personally still use glance , and will always use it .. my glances are typically faster than the protection out triggers anyway Image



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Postby Selias » Wed Apr 10, 2002 4:06 pm

Alright, now let me ask you guys one question... would you not WANT other mage classes to have fly? That's the way it seems, it's not like anything will get a lot easier, but it just takes a load off of me. I never ask people to wear fly eq, because all fly eq is about body, which is a big slot for every class.

As for having enough 7th circle slots to have 1 fly memmed at all times, I do that, but when you have 5/15 people lose their flies midzone it makes for a hassle.

As for realmsing people? just consider THAT part of a cleric spellup. What other spells do you have to cast during spellups? vits? and you have what, 5 targets max usually?

I'm usually not one to do this, but I usually have to spellup 5 tanks/hitters with dscale/stone, blur, haste, and globe, none of which are insta cast like realms is.

Ready to get flamed because of that, so bring it on!
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Postby Zrax » Wed Apr 10, 2002 4:08 pm

Seems like you picked the wrong class to play if you dont like doing spellups, like a warrior who hates having o rescue all the time, or a cleric who hates healing.
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Postby Karikhan » Wed Apr 10, 2002 4:32 pm

amen brother!!! my thoughts exactly!!

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Postby Corth » Wed Apr 10, 2002 4:40 pm

I dont think any of the enchanters are saying that they 'dislike' spellups. It just seems to me that Selias and Malacar are saying that it would lighten their already significant load if another mage class got the fly spell. And I doubt enchanters would lose groups because they no longer are the only ones that can cast fly. I can't understand why there is an issue here other than the universal rule that everything has to be an issue on the bbs.

Corth

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Postby Tuga » Wed Apr 10, 2002 4:54 pm

hmmmmmmmmm

Selias and Mala arent sayin that they dont like spellups, you dont cast fly during spellups anywayz. But they are saying that it wouldn't really unbalance the mud if another person in a 15 person group could also cast fly before the group starts a zone that needs fly.
As an enchanter I also find it really annoying that fly takes so long to cast Image

Cheerz
Tuga the Sunless Troll

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Postby Malacar » Wed Apr 10, 2002 10:00 pm

Tuga and Corth both win. Image



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Postby Jurdex » Wed Apr 10, 2002 11:53 pm

The point is that fly is a pure enchantment spell, why would any other class have it?

Also, if you lev someone when their fly falls, they won't die in !ground rooms. If fly falls on several people they can wear it until the enchanter can fly them.

I don't see the big deal.

It would be akin to me wanting other priest classes to get full heal cuz I'm tired of having to memout! Image

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Postby kiryan » Thu Apr 11, 2002 1:39 am

there is another class that already has fly. bards. its a damn useful spell although not many zones require it. if you give it to everyone, then that takes more away from the already defunct bards. if it were to go to another class, i agree with elementalists for rp and their similarity with enchanters.
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Postby Selias » Thu Apr 11, 2002 2:01 am

grr, I'm getting sucked into this thread *panic*.

Anyway I'd just like to point out something Dornax... fheal is a bad example to use, because that's a core spell for your class. Fly isn't a core spell for our class, so why can't we share?

Also, kudos to corth and tuga, you guys understand what I'm trying to say.
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Postby Malacar » Thu Apr 11, 2002 3:38 am

*nogs to Selias*

Dunno why I even bothered trying to rebut to people. They just don't get it. Oh well.

How about them Mets?

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Postby Gormal » Thu Apr 11, 2002 5:53 am

ok i leave for a few days and this thread gets funnier. If my post wasn't constructive lemme toss a reason out there why... THERE IS NO NEED TO UPGRADE FLY IN ANY RESPECT. its not my fault you have a bad idea.

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Postby Malacar » Thu Apr 11, 2002 6:56 am

Point in fact... *points up*

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Postby Gormal » Thu Apr 11, 2002 11:27 am

look malacar mocks me when he has a gormalism in his signature! isnt he cute?!

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Postby Malacar » Thu Apr 11, 2002 7:36 pm

I wouldn't try to emulate you if my life depended on it.

Can't wait til you get yer ass kicked in the military. Then you might just realize how much of a dick you really are.


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Postby Lirathal » Fri Apr 12, 2002 8:23 am

I think that this thread needs to be redirected back to the point in which it was intended. Selias first posted for other Mage classes to get fly, simply because spellup for Enchanters is a lot to manage. I agree the it is, now this isn't taking away from Clerics or Shamans or Illusionists. The topic at hand was Fly for Mages. So here is my attempt at getting this tiff back on track.

Invokers (which I am) don't get fly, IMHO they are damage dealers. However much I would *LOVE* fly and I do mean *LOVE*, I just don't think it is realistic. Elementalists however (which was mentioned by someone else, sorry I don't remember whom) is a good idea, just simply because they do know about elements (>>air<<, earth water and fire). Illusionists (as someone else pointed out) is pushing the envelope a little bit, but I could see something like that, but that now makes illusionists too much of a utility class (phantom heal = emergency cleric, "phantom fly" = ultility chanter) but I haven't had much experience with Illusionists, so I digress.

Fly equipment is plentiful, I have some and most people do. Someone else posted how it was mostly newbies that have a hard time getting around without fly. I'd agree to an extent, but with out fly I had a little bit of a rough time up until I had my fly cloak, but nothing horrid.

To sum this up, I think that the only other mage class that would be realistic if they got it would be elementalists. However I don't think that a group fly spell would be the option.

Regards,
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Postby Shevarash » Mon Apr 15, 2002 7:17 am

I'll take it under advisement.



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Postby ssar » Mon Apr 15, 2002 12:01 pm

I agree with some concerns that enchanters are the only class with fly spell atm, which results in the demands on thier magik often being very great; even though Enchanters' lives are full of magik, by definition.

The elementalist is an option to gain the fly spell at this stage, I beleive.


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