Well, after seeing Fire Embodiment, I must say I am disappointed. The quest was pretty excessive for the results. (Although I did love the story of the quest. It was well done.)
My reasoning is that you can only embody one person at a time. That means you will see elementalists without a true group be unable to complete fire embodiment quest. I'll help folks quest ress, but fire embody? No thanks, it isn't a necessity..
Now, elementalists are basically around for ward. That is their big use. They have some utility, but it is even less important now that enchanters have time stop. A good enchanter with time stop is easily enough to not necessitate an elementalist.
So this is my suggestion.
Allow an elementalist to have all four of his embodiment spells up at once, but on four different targets. Why not? Makes sense to me especially considering each embodiment is a different circle. Yes, I know the spells would need to be balanced/downgraded to grant such a change, but I feel it will truly help out the class in the long run. Not to mention it would add a plethora of new strategy and fun to the dynamics of a group.
Thoughts?
Dornax
Jurdex
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The Raven of Wisdom
Est Sularus Oth Mithas
"My Honor is My Life"
Elementalists and Embodiment
For once, I agree with Jurdex on one point.
Elementalists should be able to have more than 1 embody up.
I think that a good plan would be: If they have 1 up, it's full power. If they have two up, they are both half power. Three, 1/3 power. 4, 1/4 power.
Dunno if it's feasible, but that sounds like a good start. Might not be, dunno. But here's some feedback.
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Malacar - omg ymir!
Elementalists should be able to have more than 1 embody up.
I think that a good plan would be: If they have 1 up, it's full power. If they have two up, they are both half power. Three, 1/3 power. 4, 1/4 power.
Dunno if it's feasible, but that sounds like a good start. Might not be, dunno. But here's some feedback.
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Malacar - omg ymir!
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jegzed:
<B>Fireshield on a tank?
No quest in the world can be to cheap for that.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
holy COW. Didn't realize it also had fshield.
And I'm more of a lower-end zoner (Jot/Brass/Demi is about as complicated as I can lead), but I love elementalist embody as much as ward.
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Azuth tells you 'were you leading that disaster?'
<B>Fireshield on a tank?
No quest in the world can be to cheap for that.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
holy COW. Didn't realize it also had fshield.
And I'm more of a lower-end zoner (Jot/Brass/Demi is about as complicated as I can lead), but I love elementalist embody as much as ward.
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Azuth tells you 'were you leading that disaster?'
Fire Embody is a pretty cool spell, but we spent days finding the mobs and figuring out the quest and it was disappointing considering the effort, in my opinion.
I really don't see the big deal about the effects since it is on *1* person. That isn't going to make or break a fight, thus an elementalist is not really big deal to have around. I mean sure, its a help, but not even close to a need.
Look at dragonscales for example. The quest was relatively short and pretty easy considering the awesome effect the spell has. The spell can be cast on anyone meaning your entire group can be scaled at one time. Some zones aren't really even doable/plausable without dragonscales. Fire embody was much more expensive, a thousand times more exhausting and not granting near the reward while the elementalist still has no niche.
I'd rather see the effects reduced and the ability to embody four folks than have one big effect on one single person. I've discussed this with some others and the thoughts were split a bit.
Anyway, I'd like to hear what elementalists have to say about such a possibility I have proposed.
Thanks.
Dornax
Jurdex
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The Raven of Wisdom
Est Sularus Oth Mithas
"My Honor is My Life"
I really don't see the big deal about the effects since it is on *1* person. That isn't going to make or break a fight, thus an elementalist is not really big deal to have around. I mean sure, its a help, but not even close to a need.
Look at dragonscales for example. The quest was relatively short and pretty easy considering the awesome effect the spell has. The spell can be cast on anyone meaning your entire group can be scaled at one time. Some zones aren't really even doable/plausable without dragonscales. Fire embody was much more expensive, a thousand times more exhausting and not granting near the reward while the elementalist still has no niche.
I'd rather see the effects reduced and the ability to embody four folks than have one big effect on one single person. I've discussed this with some others and the thoughts were split a bit.
Anyway, I'd like to hear what elementalists have to say about such a possibility I have proposed.
Thanks.
Dornax
Jurdex
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The Raven of Wisdom
Est Sularus Oth Mithas
"My Honor is My Life"
I'm an Elementalist. I don't have fire embodiment yet, and haven't even seen it work. I'm merely level 43 and don't even have elemental ward yet.
I generally don't have a problem getting into groups, because of who my friends and guildmates are I think more-so than what class I play.
When I am in a group I generally embody one tank with either earth or air embody. I stone a few folks during spellup if it's not a zone that requires dragonscales to survive. I sometimes cast haste if the enchanter is overburdened, but rarely do because of the duration and because ice tongue seems to be more effective overall. I use my pets quite a bit in zones that are dark to see what lies in one direction or another, or to lure mobs to the group. Other than this I cast a few offensive spells here and there depending on the situation, which all pale in comparison to the damage done by invokers(rightly so) or even illusionists.
I do feel that once I have elemental ward I will be more useful to a group, but then really only effective in warding tanks due to the chipping effect. The problem with ward is that it is 10th circle and therefore failable, and competes with both fire embody and our best damage spell for mem space.
Currently though at level 43 I don't feel that anything I do in the group couldn't be done by any other class. Druids and Illusionists can make pets for scouting and luring. Enchanters are much better at stoning/hasting, and now with time stop they can keep a group globed much better as well, and do it faster. Basically elementalists overlap a few other class abilities but really have no defined need atm. While embodiments are nice and definately can be powerful, they really aren't going to make or break a group if it's not there.
I do support the idea of being able to support multiple embodiments. I'm not entirely sure I like the idea of splitting the power of the embodiments depending on how many are maintained. I do, however, feel that it would be reasonable to be able to maintain two embodiments at a time. One of them solid and one of them wraithform.
This would allow 1 elementalist to keep two tanks embodied, as nearly any zone requires at least 2 tanks. As far as balancing goes I don't think there would need to be a lot of re-balancing of the embodiments as the wraithform embodiments tend to have adverse effects built into them to help counter-act the abilities they grant. If an elementalist were to be able to maintain 1 solid and 1 wraithform embodiment at a time this wouldn't always be an ideal situation, as there are many zones that require the tanks to be able to bash(CC, Vault, SF, ect) An air/fire embodied tank can't bash.
I feel this would require the tanks and elementalists to better coordinate and pick which tank gets which embody. It also wouldn't allow for two tank/hitters to both be perm hasted from the wraithform embodies or gain the transient properties of them, just one at a time. Also only one tank would be able to get the massive HP and size gain from the solid embodiments.
I think that if elementalists were able to maintain 2 embodiments, and if Ice Layer were looked into to as to it's effectiveness(I've never actually managed to drop a mob with ice layer, ever. And all it is really is a single target earthquake for all effective purposes.) The only other thing I can think of that may be cool is if earth embodiment caused the stoneskin spell to be more effective(last a little longer, take more damage) when combined together, thus making the elemenalist's stoneskin spell something that could actually be usefull for something other than exp.
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Ghimok - Sage of The Company
I generally don't have a problem getting into groups, because of who my friends and guildmates are I think more-so than what class I play.
When I am in a group I generally embody one tank with either earth or air embody. I stone a few folks during spellup if it's not a zone that requires dragonscales to survive. I sometimes cast haste if the enchanter is overburdened, but rarely do because of the duration and because ice tongue seems to be more effective overall. I use my pets quite a bit in zones that are dark to see what lies in one direction or another, or to lure mobs to the group. Other than this I cast a few offensive spells here and there depending on the situation, which all pale in comparison to the damage done by invokers(rightly so) or even illusionists.
I do feel that once I have elemental ward I will be more useful to a group, but then really only effective in warding tanks due to the chipping effect. The problem with ward is that it is 10th circle and therefore failable, and competes with both fire embody and our best damage spell for mem space.
Currently though at level 43 I don't feel that anything I do in the group couldn't be done by any other class. Druids and Illusionists can make pets for scouting and luring. Enchanters are much better at stoning/hasting, and now with time stop they can keep a group globed much better as well, and do it faster. Basically elementalists overlap a few other class abilities but really have no defined need atm. While embodiments are nice and definately can be powerful, they really aren't going to make or break a group if it's not there.
I do support the idea of being able to support multiple embodiments. I'm not entirely sure I like the idea of splitting the power of the embodiments depending on how many are maintained. I do, however, feel that it would be reasonable to be able to maintain two embodiments at a time. One of them solid and one of them wraithform.
This would allow 1 elementalist to keep two tanks embodied, as nearly any zone requires at least 2 tanks. As far as balancing goes I don't think there would need to be a lot of re-balancing of the embodiments as the wraithform embodiments tend to have adverse effects built into them to help counter-act the abilities they grant. If an elementalist were to be able to maintain 1 solid and 1 wraithform embodiment at a time this wouldn't always be an ideal situation, as there are many zones that require the tanks to be able to bash(CC, Vault, SF, ect) An air/fire embodied tank can't bash.
I feel this would require the tanks and elementalists to better coordinate and pick which tank gets which embody. It also wouldn't allow for two tank/hitters to both be perm hasted from the wraithform embodies or gain the transient properties of them, just one at a time. Also only one tank would be able to get the massive HP and size gain from the solid embodiments.
I think that if elementalists were able to maintain 2 embodiments, and if Ice Layer were looked into to as to it's effectiveness(I've never actually managed to drop a mob with ice layer, ever. And all it is really is a single target earthquake for all effective purposes.) The only other thing I can think of that may be cool is if earth embodiment caused the stoneskin spell to be more effective(last a little longer, take more damage) when combined together, thus making the elemenalist's stoneskin spell something that could actually be usefull for something other than exp.
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Ghimok - Sage of The Company
The spell is quite hard, and I think the only thing that even come close to comparing is res. The quest is very well done, and thought out, and a great story but its damn hard. I just did inferno, which took me 2 days and never more then 4 ppl to get any single item for it. I did have some help with parts of the quest, but even though i know all of fire embodiment there is no way i could do it in a couple of days and not withouth gathering 4-5 full 15 person groups.
The spell is nice, but as jurdex's pointed it outs not really worth the effort since it is only single target. Tanks love it when they are not bashing, but this is by no means going to make or break a group. The fire shield on it is fun, but tanks really don't get hit that much and that hard for it to make a huge difference. I have a trigger that tells me anytime someone gets hit with cold/fire shield - used incase someone's ward/globe drops and in most battles. Most of the time mobs only get this message a handful of times during a battle. The only time i saw fireshield do any real damage was when we let blur/stone fall and just kept fhealing for kicks.
I do like the idea of having more then 1 embodiment spellup at a time, it would give me something more to do then just embodiment 1 person very 8min and ward every 5. But lowering the ability of the spells would make them even less neccessary in a zone.
I do kinda of like Malacar's idea, but maybe allow use to have 2 forms up at full strength, a 3rd and 1/2 and 4th and 1/4. 1 of each type only and none on the same target of course.
In closing: Fire embodiment is cool, but being cool doesn't make it worthwhile.
-neno
The spell is nice, but as jurdex's pointed it outs not really worth the effort since it is only single target. Tanks love it when they are not bashing, but this is by no means going to make or break a group. The fire shield on it is fun, but tanks really don't get hit that much and that hard for it to make a huge difference. I have a trigger that tells me anytime someone gets hit with cold/fire shield - used incase someone's ward/globe drops and in most battles. Most of the time mobs only get this message a handful of times during a battle. The only time i saw fireshield do any real damage was when we let blur/stone fall and just kept fhealing for kicks.
I do like the idea of having more then 1 embodiment spellup at a time, it would give me something more to do then just embodiment 1 person very 8min and ward every 5. But lowering the ability of the spells would make them even less neccessary in a zone.
I do kinda of like Malacar's idea, but maybe allow use to have 2 forms up at full strength, a 3rd and 1/2 and 4th and 1/4. 1 of each type only and none on the same target of course.
In closing: Fire embodiment is cool, but being cool doesn't make it worthwhile.
-neno
I'm glad someone besides me, or another elementalist brought this up. I've been talking about this type of thing alot lately. Here's my take. Being able to cast all 4 is probably too powerful. Having effects be dg for each one up probably would make them all worthless. I dont like that idea. I've been talking about a system where the elementalist can keep two up...one solid (earth/water) for tanks and one wraith (fire/air) for hitters or !bash. Some peeps like the hps. Others like the long haste. Wraith embodiments are goonda cuz elementalist hastes bite hard and when im stoning/hasting in a small exp group, its nice to be able to haste a hitter using air embody and focus on my pathetic stoning (though its not nearly as bad as my hasting).
I dont think two..one solid one wraith...would be overpowering and it would make elementalists more desireable for groups.
As for a couple of other minor points...yeah make ice tongue/layer better so they can be useful, increase haste duration, make thunder lance shatter missile shields. Then itll be a great class.
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Izarek / Raevithar / Fyzzlroo
I dont think two..one solid one wraith...would be overpowering and it would make elementalists more desireable for groups.
As for a couple of other minor points...yeah make ice tongue/layer better so they can be useful, increase haste duration, make thunder lance shatter missile shields. Then itll be a great class.
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Izarek / Raevithar / Fyzzlroo
Some other general suggestions regarding opinions of mine on Elementalists:
1) Allow us to maintain 2 embodiments at a time on two separate targets. Each embodiment needs to be of a different type, one solid type (water/earth) and one wraithform type (air/fire).
2) Make the 'ice layer' spell more useful. It's a great idea for a spell, but I've had the spell for quite a while now and have yet to knock down a single target. I think the possibility for this spell's effect to kick in needs to be upped a bit for it to be worthwhile to mem.
3) Tweak the duration of the 'ice tongue' spell up just a little. As I understand it right now it's roughly 1/2 as long of duration as 'silence' or 'suffocate'. Perhaps make it 75% of the duration of the other silencing spells and keep it's current rate to hit.
4) Make the effects of 'stoneskin' last slightly longer, and absorb slightly more hitpoints when the target of the spell is also affected by 'elemental earth embodiment' (Note this should have no affect on 'dragonscales' or 'displacement')
5) Increase the duration of the haste spell for all classes that have it. Ench, Nec, and Elementalist. It's a staple spell that rangers and rouges would really like to see more of, that don't because it falls halfway through even the simplest of fights.
6) Glitterdust - It was useful, but since it was tweaked it's barely worth memming. If 'thunder lance' destroyed 'missile shield' then I wouldn't even bother memming glitterdust, especially if a sunraying druid were in the group. I would resolve this by either tweaking the chance to hit up (although not as high as when it first went in), or increasing the duration significantly. I guess personally I'd rather see the chance to hit go up while having a low duration as that has the most chance of being useful with the lowest chance of twinkability.
7) Thunder lance should destroy missile shield.
8) Downgrade the coders for making a class that's fun to play even if it's not a staple of the group, or even overly useful like warriors, enchanters, and clerics.
9) Don't take post 8 the wrong way, it's a compliment. The previous 1-7 I am very serious about and I think even doing a handfull of them will make elementalists more interesting and needed in groups.
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Ghimok - Sage of The Company
1) Allow us to maintain 2 embodiments at a time on two separate targets. Each embodiment needs to be of a different type, one solid type (water/earth) and one wraithform type (air/fire).
2) Make the 'ice layer' spell more useful. It's a great idea for a spell, but I've had the spell for quite a while now and have yet to knock down a single target. I think the possibility for this spell's effect to kick in needs to be upped a bit for it to be worthwhile to mem.
3) Tweak the duration of the 'ice tongue' spell up just a little. As I understand it right now it's roughly 1/2 as long of duration as 'silence' or 'suffocate'. Perhaps make it 75% of the duration of the other silencing spells and keep it's current rate to hit.
4) Make the effects of 'stoneskin' last slightly longer, and absorb slightly more hitpoints when the target of the spell is also affected by 'elemental earth embodiment' (Note this should have no affect on 'dragonscales' or 'displacement')
5) Increase the duration of the haste spell for all classes that have it. Ench, Nec, and Elementalist. It's a staple spell that rangers and rouges would really like to see more of, that don't because it falls halfway through even the simplest of fights.
6) Glitterdust - It was useful, but since it was tweaked it's barely worth memming. If 'thunder lance' destroyed 'missile shield' then I wouldn't even bother memming glitterdust, especially if a sunraying druid were in the group. I would resolve this by either tweaking the chance to hit up (although not as high as when it first went in), or increasing the duration significantly. I guess personally I'd rather see the chance to hit go up while having a low duration as that has the most chance of being useful with the lowest chance of twinkability.
7) Thunder lance should destroy missile shield.
8) Downgrade the coders for making a class that's fun to play even if it's not a staple of the group, or even overly useful like warriors, enchanters, and clerics.
9) Don't take post 8 the wrong way, it's a compliment. The previous 1-7 I am very serious about and I think even doing a handfull of them will make elementalists more interesting and needed in groups.
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Ghimok - Sage of The Company
3 multiple embodiements up.... umm so you want to have 4 1.5k pc tanks in every elementalist group? one is more than enough. perhaps vit and embodiement should not stack.
hmm.. its a very rare case when goodies see 1.5k hps tanks in zone groups.. we don't have ogre/troll hps, frequently we have pallys with 1k hps
and whats wrong with that? i can see a lot of fights where mutliple tanks with emb would be helpful but not overpowered..
#5 timestop is a mistake.
why?
#6 i remember a lot of shit about how we didnt want another spell up class or another zone necessary class. in order for elementalists to be not required they have to be utility. whats the problem? wheres the surprise?
yes, we don't want them to be necessary but it would be nice if they were useful in a gruop.. so perhaps you would need either an enchanter or an elementalist that would be nice wouldn't it? but instead we still rely 100% on enchanters.. although for exp i will usually take elementlists/shamans for stones.. usually isn't a prob
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Mishri }-Sentinel-{ Shades of Twilight
hmm.. its a very rare case when goodies see 1.5k hps tanks in zone groups.. we don't have ogre/troll hps, frequently we have pallys with 1k hps
and whats wrong with that? i can see a lot of fights where mutliple tanks with emb would be helpful but not overpowered..
#5 timestop is a mistake.
why?
#6 i remember a lot of shit about how we didnt want another spell up class or another zone necessary class. in order for elementalists to be not required they have to be utility. whats the problem? wheres the surprise?
yes, we don't want them to be necessary but it would be nice if they were useful in a gruop.. so perhaps you would need either an enchanter or an elementalist that would be nice wouldn't it? but instead we still rely 100% on enchanters.. although for exp i will usually take elementlists/shamans for stones.. usually isn't a prob
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Mishri }-Sentinel-{ Shades of Twilight
really like Dlur's ideas. . .was going to suggest some of them myself.
Give mentalists the ability to put up 1 solid and one wraith form 'form' up at a time.
Since Fireform is so hard to get, and since fireshield really isn't that big of a deal on a dscaled tank (hey, what tank isn't gonna be dscaled?) .. . unelss you wanna fireform / vit spirits/pets/etc and send them north until mobs die. . .err. whups. anyway, most mobs are globed anyway =)
So, perhaps give the fireformed tank the ability to bash. Of course, make it aesthetically pleasing, like :
Touk's form pulses and explodes in a focused blast of flame towards a giant shitmonkey!
Touk sends a giant shitmonkey sprawling!
A giant shitmonkey is stunned!
Give it increased range of mobs that can be bashed (say ogre sized, or something).
Perhaps a formed person should have a better dodge skill? perhaps a higher agility? vulnerability to cold spells? (err like mobs ever cast those anyway. bleh!)
Anyway, just some more ideas =) neat spell though! I want my own personal Elementalist to perm fireform me!
Lost
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Give mentalists the ability to put up 1 solid and one wraith form 'form' up at a time.
Since Fireform is so hard to get, and since fireshield really isn't that big of a deal on a dscaled tank (hey, what tank isn't gonna be dscaled?) .. . unelss you wanna fireform / vit spirits/pets/etc and send them north until mobs die. . .err. whups. anyway, most mobs are globed anyway =)
So, perhaps give the fireformed tank the ability to bash. Of course, make it aesthetically pleasing, like :
Touk's form pulses and explodes in a focused blast of flame towards a giant shitmonkey!
Touk sends a giant shitmonkey sprawling!
A giant shitmonkey is stunned!
Give it increased range of mobs that can be bashed (say ogre sized, or something).
Perhaps a formed person should have a better dodge skill? perhaps a higher agility? vulnerability to cold spells? (err like mobs ever cast those anyway. bleh!)
Anyway, just some more ideas =) neat spell though! I want my own personal Elementalist to perm fireform me!
Lost
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kiryan
- Sojourner
- Posts: 7275
- Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
- Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
- Contact:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Mishre:
<B>3 multiple embodiements up.... umm so you want to have 4 1.5k pc tanks in every elementalist group? one is more than enough. perhaps vit and embodiement should not stack.
hmm.. its a very rare case when goodies see 1.5k hps tanks in zone groups.. we don't have ogre/troll hps, frequently we have pallys with 1k hps
and whats wrong with that? i can see a lot of fights where mutliple tanks with emb would be helpful but not overpowered..
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
are there any fights that you can't already do? being able to give another 3 players 200-300 more hps is huge. if it wasn't so huge warriors wouldnt be running around in hp gear. as for the exact number 1.5 1.6 who cares, if goodies manage with 1k tanks, wouldnt 1.3k be a huge bonus? perhaps greater than having 1.5k but not tanking so well?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Mishre:
<B>#6 i remember a lot of shit about how we didnt want another spell up class or another zone necessary class. in order for elementalists to be not required they have to be utility. whats the problem? wheres the surprise?
yes, we don't want them to be necessary but it would be nice if they were useful in a gruop.. so perhaps you would need either an enchanter or an elementalist that would be nice wouldn't it? but instead we still rely 100% on enchanters.. although for exp i will usually take elementlists/shamans for stones.. usually isn't a prob
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
they have elemental ward (globe), they have pets that can light your way / help separate tracking mobs, haste, damage spells, pwb, feeblemind, stone, embodiements. these are plenty of reasons to bring one along, however, none of which is particulary compelling. they are already useful in a group. if they not being taken its because they are not necessary or group is full or friendship/guild > class+race.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Mishre:
<B>#5 timestop is a mistake.
why?
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
cause many of the things elementalists could provide to the group can now be provided by a single enchanter with timestop. before they had time limitations and were bitching about not having enough time to spell up. Now with timestop they can do the work of 2 enchanters in spellup situations.
[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 05-18-2002).]
<B>3 multiple embodiements up.... umm so you want to have 4 1.5k pc tanks in every elementalist group? one is more than enough. perhaps vit and embodiement should not stack.
hmm.. its a very rare case when goodies see 1.5k hps tanks in zone groups.. we don't have ogre/troll hps, frequently we have pallys with 1k hps
and whats wrong with that? i can see a lot of fights where mutliple tanks with emb would be helpful but not overpowered..
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
are there any fights that you can't already do? being able to give another 3 players 200-300 more hps is huge. if it wasn't so huge warriors wouldnt be running around in hp gear. as for the exact number 1.5 1.6 who cares, if goodies manage with 1k tanks, wouldnt 1.3k be a huge bonus? perhaps greater than having 1.5k but not tanking so well?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Mishre:
<B>#6 i remember a lot of shit about how we didnt want another spell up class or another zone necessary class. in order for elementalists to be not required they have to be utility. whats the problem? wheres the surprise?
yes, we don't want them to be necessary but it would be nice if they were useful in a gruop.. so perhaps you would need either an enchanter or an elementalist that would be nice wouldn't it? but instead we still rely 100% on enchanters.. although for exp i will usually take elementlists/shamans for stones.. usually isn't a prob
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
they have elemental ward (globe), they have pets that can light your way / help separate tracking mobs, haste, damage spells, pwb, feeblemind, stone, embodiements. these are plenty of reasons to bring one along, however, none of which is particulary compelling. they are already useful in a group. if they not being taken its because they are not necessary or group is full or friendship/guild > class+race.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Mishre:
<B>#5 timestop is a mistake.
why?
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
cause many of the things elementalists could provide to the group can now be provided by a single enchanter with timestop. before they had time limitations and were bitching about not having enough time to spell up. Now with timestop they can do the work of 2 enchanters in spellup situations.
[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 05-18-2002).]
i have to agree, any spell that just reduced the need for more players in a group kinda sucks. i mean, i like when i only have on chanter, but how about the second enchanter who gets passed up because they replaced him with time stop and another ranger?
not cool for the chanters
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In the Great Cat's silence we walk,
In its speed we strike,
In its strength we find victory,
In its Pride, we return,
Home.
not cool for the chanters
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In the Great Cat's silence we walk,
In its speed we strike,
In its strength we find victory,
In its Pride, we return,
Home.
Aren't spell effects determined upon they're casting time? If so, I don't think you could modify embodiments already up when an elementalist casts another one. Well, not without rewriting big chunks of the embodiment spell code anyway. Dlur's idea sounds more feasible and easier to balance.
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You fire a black-shafted elven arrow to the east at Gormal's pet goat with masterful shooting that does lethal damage!
You receive your share of experience.
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You fire a black-shafted elven arrow to the east at Gormal's pet goat with masterful shooting that does lethal damage!
You receive your share of experience.
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Sizzraxxil
- Sojourner
- Posts: 46
- Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2001 6:01 am
- Location: Stittsbille, Ontario, Canada
Being an evil race mentalist here is my take on some of the spells and I think I'd agree that being able to keep an air/fire embodiment and an earth/water embodiment up at the same time is a good idea
Glitterdust: for evils this spell is fairly handy for big fights since we don't got any other area blinders however I don't use this spell all that much because the success rate just isn't high enough and usually I get stuff blind at the end of the battle plus since you need to cast it like 6 times for it to be useful in a battle that means longer memtimes
Thunder Lance: I don't even mem this for zones I only use it for experience groups or solo
Ice Layer: this is more like a fun spell that you can cast just for kicks it works fine on giants in jot but isn't really needed and any stuff like demons or high end mobs it won't work on so its kinda worthless ice tongue is WAY better to mem
Ice Tongue: this spell is great I use it all the times in zones it has quick cast time and success rate isn't half bad plus it looks far better then silence
Water Embodiment: useful until you get earth embodiment and if you don't have water breathing equipment but becomes obsolete once you get lvl 41
Air Embodiment: I use this one for experience groups more then zone groups not to say it doesn't have some use in zones if the main tank needs to be !bash so he can rescue (I've heard stories that you can be bashed with it on still but I've never seen it) being !bash also comes in handy for doing runs at stuff
Whirlwind: the disarm component is pretty cool and the damage on this spell isn't to bad either but in a zone group I usually mem fire/icewave for the area damage
Fire/Icewave: area damage spell no side effects.. woot.. damage is pretty feeble too but its area effect at least
Earth Embodiment: this spell is an upgraded version of water embodiment with diff side effects prot gas/cold is neat the hps are good and the increased size is pretty cool if you cast embod and then enlarge can get trolls up to ogre size or ogres up to 20+ft tall and 2.5 tonnes with two deformity rings of course also seeing someone hulks here is pretty cool
Earthblood: decent single target damage spell with a paralyze side effect and a very short cast time the only prob I got with this spell is that the paralyze effect is way to short it only lasts like 7 or 8 combat rounds plus not being able to cast it on everything is kinda annoying specially since its not like we overpowered in damage dealing already or anything
I'm only lvl43 and not gonna be able to play for about 4 months so won't be able to see what 10th circle spells are like but I'll make one comment on fire embodiment
The fireshield effect isn't that great because when you got a stone/scale up the mob is only hitting you for 1 or 2hps which means he only gets hit for that much from fireshield if and when fire/coldshields get tweaked a little it could be pretty cool though plus I think that fire/coldshields should hit if you parry or shieldblock as well cause they are still swinging at you and hitting you but you are just blocking it and the fire/coldshield isn't "skin tight" I'd think meaning it is like a suit 1cm away from your skin it is like a sphere around you is how I would picture it
Sizzraxxil Shadow Soldier, Seething Darkness
Glitterdust: for evils this spell is fairly handy for big fights since we don't got any other area blinders however I don't use this spell all that much because the success rate just isn't high enough and usually I get stuff blind at the end of the battle plus since you need to cast it like 6 times for it to be useful in a battle that means longer memtimes
Thunder Lance: I don't even mem this for zones I only use it for experience groups or solo
Ice Layer: this is more like a fun spell that you can cast just for kicks it works fine on giants in jot but isn't really needed and any stuff like demons or high end mobs it won't work on so its kinda worthless ice tongue is WAY better to mem
Ice Tongue: this spell is great I use it all the times in zones it has quick cast time and success rate isn't half bad plus it looks far better then silence
Water Embodiment: useful until you get earth embodiment and if you don't have water breathing equipment but becomes obsolete once you get lvl 41
Air Embodiment: I use this one for experience groups more then zone groups not to say it doesn't have some use in zones if the main tank needs to be !bash so he can rescue (I've heard stories that you can be bashed with it on still but I've never seen it) being !bash also comes in handy for doing runs at stuff
Whirlwind: the disarm component is pretty cool and the damage on this spell isn't to bad either but in a zone group I usually mem fire/icewave for the area damage
Fire/Icewave: area damage spell no side effects.. woot.. damage is pretty feeble too but its area effect at least
Earth Embodiment: this spell is an upgraded version of water embodiment with diff side effects prot gas/cold is neat the hps are good and the increased size is pretty cool if you cast embod and then enlarge can get trolls up to ogre size or ogres up to 20+ft tall and 2.5 tonnes with two deformity rings of course also seeing someone hulks here is pretty cool
Earthblood: decent single target damage spell with a paralyze side effect and a very short cast time the only prob I got with this spell is that the paralyze effect is way to short it only lasts like 7 or 8 combat rounds plus not being able to cast it on everything is kinda annoying specially since its not like we overpowered in damage dealing already or anything
I'm only lvl43 and not gonna be able to play for about 4 months so won't be able to see what 10th circle spells are like but I'll make one comment on fire embodiment
The fireshield effect isn't that great because when you got a stone/scale up the mob is only hitting you for 1 or 2hps which means he only gets hit for that much from fireshield if and when fire/coldshields get tweaked a little it could be pretty cool though plus I think that fire/coldshields should hit if you parry or shieldblock as well cause they are still swinging at you and hitting you but you are just blocking it and the fire/coldshield isn't "skin tight" I'd think meaning it is like a suit 1cm away from your skin it is like a sphere around you is how I would picture it
Sizzraxxil Shadow Soldier, Seething Darkness
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Sizzraxxil
- Sojourner
- Posts: 46
- Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2001 6:01 am
- Location: Stittsbille, Ontario, Canada
druids have similar underwater prob.
Oh, btw, I had a group with 4 elementalists the other day, does this mean all 15 should have all had >1k hps?
Let me ask something, does fire embody help reduce fire dmg in any way? I would value that MUCH more than fireshield. Esp for evils, you can now have a troll tank!
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Gyrx tells you '100% spank?'
Oh, btw, I had a group with 4 elementalists the other day, does this mean all 15 should have all had >1k hps?
Let me ask something, does fire embody help reduce fire dmg in any way? I would value that MUCH more than fireshield. Esp for evils, you can now have a troll tank!
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Gyrx tells you '100% spank?'
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