I know they're dumb, they're ugly but how about some class luvin for these folks. Only two choices for playing these guys and they're both no longer good either.
Ogre shamans are really dumb making mem time horrendous. Most ogres don't cast while zoning ( poke ambar, bwahaha :P ) They are larger than most targets so become switched to often.
Ogre warriors used to be useful because they could bash larger mobs, however there are spells that cover this range (?) and at the least the mobs can be stunned which relatively solves the problem.
Their few starting advantages have since disappeared.
- Simplest evil starting hometown. ( um... take a look at DK ) goats used to be fun to kill but now they just kick ass compared to the stuff elsewhere.
- Highest HP race (no longer useful since they are horrendous at tanking)
- Can bash giant sized mobs (can now stun/blind giant sized mobs so doesn't matter)
- Doorbash was... um a novelty, when was the last time you found a door that you couldn't just open directly? Oh hey! it's a farm house, lets just open the door and stroll in.
I'm not too sure how best to fix a race like this. Even orcs have quite a few advantages over ogres, Trolls have the fast regen and 2nd highest race hp. They both have two classes, but in the case of a troll, regenerating fast is an advantage for 90% of their lifetime. 5% being when they're sitting around doing nothing, 5% being when they're being hit by fire based spells. As an ogre there are just no benefits to playing this race anymore. Yeah you can make an ogre that does a lot of damage, even comparable to a rogue. However you don't get any of the useful rogue skills, instead you get tank skills but as an ogre you can't really tank either.
Give da Ogre some luvin
Ogres don't tank well because their agility is really low. Thus they get hit very easily regardless of their AC.
As for barbarians only having two classes, well there is only one shaman choice for a good race and that is the barbarian so they're not that neglected. Also they make a fair shaman since their spells can be regained at a decent rate as compared to an ogre, would easily could double what a barbarian would have.
As for barbarians only having two classes, well there is only one shaman choice for a good race and that is the barbarian so they're not that neglected. Also they make a fair shaman since their spells can be regained at a decent rate as compared to an ogre, would easily could double what a barbarian would have.
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Gromikazer
- Sojourner
- Posts: 244
- Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2002 5:01 am
Excuse me .. I cast a LOT in zones .... I do area damage(typically 6 area spells), silences, hexes, stuns, gheals (5)... armor, vit, stone ... and whatever else i can do during the fight ....
Ogre Shaman have so many advantages lower mem times arent even an issue .. I chose Ogre .. I deal with the mem times ... what other shaman can doorbash or bodyslam??
i LOVE my shaman and jokingly bitch about the mem times (only because people really dont know how long the mems are and sometimes i cant get my whole mem done..)
I think I hold my own with trolls and orcs .. and only lose out in the mems by maybe 15 sec per mem ... In fact if i didnt.. i'd probably be replaced in groups
-go go gadget OGRE!!!!
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Ambar -= Beloved Matron =- Crimson Coalition
Ogre Shaman have so many advantages lower mem times arent even an issue .. I chose Ogre .. I deal with the mem times ... what other shaman can doorbash or bodyslam??
i LOVE my shaman and jokingly bitch about the mem times (only because people really dont know how long the mems are and sometimes i cant get my whole mem done..)
I think I hold my own with trolls and orcs .. and only lose out in the mems by maybe 15 sec per mem ... In fact if i didnt.. i'd probably be replaced in groups
-go go gadget OGRE!!!!
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Ambar -= Beloved Matron =- Crimson Coalition
ogres r fine, i gone one, i solo it, grouped it some, its fine
doorbash is used
ogre tanks are used
ogre bash is used
highest hp is needed for when they do tank, like you said they do get hit more, more hp evens this out.
and hometown, it has by far more nastys than dk does (if you wander around *wink*), and is by far more anoying to learn
it cant be that bad.. more people are rolling ogres now than they did before....as alts and otherwise
doorbash is used
ogre tanks are used
ogre bash is used
highest hp is needed for when they do tank, like you said they do get hit more, more hp evens this out.
and hometown, it has by far more nastys than dk does (if you wander around *wink*), and is by far more anoying to learn
it cant be that bad.. more people are rolling ogres now than they did before....as alts and otherwise
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ambar:
<B>Haknay group-says 'Ambar doorbash e please'
doorbash e
SPLAT!!
no luv for de Ogre
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
MUAHAHAHA!
You group-say, "oops sorry jen, forgot there was 10 mobs behind that door."
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/Jegzed - Sorcere Master - Crimson Coalition
<B>Haknay group-says 'Ambar doorbash e please'
doorbash e
SPLAT!!
no luv for de Ogre
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
MUAHAHAHA!
You group-say, "oops sorry jen, forgot there was 10 mobs behind that door."
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/Jegzed - Sorcere Master - Crimson Coalition
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ambar:
<B>Excuse me .. I cast a LOT in zones .... I do area damage(typically 6 area spells), silences, hexes, stuns, gheals (5)... armor, vit, stone ... and whatever else i can do during the fight ....
Ogre Shaman have so many advantages lower mem times arent even an issue .. I chose Ogre .. I deal with the mem times ... what other shaman can doorbash or bodyslam??
i LOVE my shaman and jokingly bitch about the mem times (only because people really dont know how long the mems are and sometimes i cant get my whole mem done..)
I think I hold my own with trolls and orcs .. and only lose out in the mems by maybe 15 sec per mem ... In fact if i didnt.. i'd probably be replaced in groups
-go go gadget OGRE!!!!
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Barbarians can bodyslam.
<B>Excuse me .. I cast a LOT in zones .... I do area damage(typically 6 area spells), silences, hexes, stuns, gheals (5)... armor, vit, stone ... and whatever else i can do during the fight ....
Ogre Shaman have so many advantages lower mem times arent even an issue .. I chose Ogre .. I deal with the mem times ... what other shaman can doorbash or bodyslam??
i LOVE my shaman and jokingly bitch about the mem times (only because people really dont know how long the mems are and sometimes i cant get my whole mem done..)
I think I hold my own with trolls and orcs .. and only lose out in the mems by maybe 15 sec per mem ... In fact if i didnt.. i'd probably be replaced in groups
-go go gadget OGRE!!!!
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Barbarians can bodyslam.
Ummmm no ogre tanks are not used. not at all unless they are switched to. and even then most trolls have ogres on a rescue list.
all bad statements. only every once in a while you find a door that needs bashing and even then an ogre is called in from just sitting at the dk fountain not doing anything himself cause an ogre cant even walk through a mid level exp zone 15 levels lower than he is without some sort of healer.
some ogres cant even tank the leaders in dk with a certain ammount of easy not the way a troll or duergar can. the ammount of damage taken by an ogre is pretty embarrassing.
in zone groups all there are is troll tanks.
and the gromikazer tank.
no ogre tanks.
i agree ogre warriors need some in the area of tanking ability. make some use out of them. cause if you need a hitter get a rogue. if you need a mob stunned get a elementalist/illus/shaman.
as for ogre shamans they rock. !bash by the majority of mobs in the game. shit load of hps. hit like trucks. i love em. im playing one now.
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Gogk, Everyone Picks On The Fat Kid
all bad statements. only every once in a while you find a door that needs bashing and even then an ogre is called in from just sitting at the dk fountain not doing anything himself cause an ogre cant even walk through a mid level exp zone 15 levels lower than he is without some sort of healer.
some ogres cant even tank the leaders in dk with a certain ammount of easy not the way a troll or duergar can. the ammount of damage taken by an ogre is pretty embarrassing.
in zone groups all there are is troll tanks.
and the gromikazer tank.
no ogre tanks.
i agree ogre warriors need some in the area of tanking ability. make some use out of them. cause if you need a hitter get a rogue. if you need a mob stunned get a elementalist/illus/shaman.
as for ogre shamans they rock. !bash by the majority of mobs in the game. shit load of hps. hit like trucks. i love em. im playing one now.
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Gogk, Everyone Picks On The Fat Kid
Just seems a little strange, but I'd think if I were a human and tanking an ogre that the ogre would half knock the PISS outta my senses when getting hit! If they could possibly ?? make it where a mob is stunned or where the ogre would parry/whatever since it's str based anyway, you'd think ogres would rule. They simply don't. Anyway to finish the point, how bout if an ogre's tanking, unless a smaller mob is a freak of nature, he/she stun or reduce the mob's ability to hit effectivly due to intimidation maybe? Hard to say, but even in Shrek *laugh* you can visually see how mobs had hard time getting near him in the fight scene where he took on those knights cuz of his size; he simply kept them at bay, unless they were wielding spears or whatever. The piledriver scene was funny too! Give that to them *rofl*
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The watch sez: Time to kill!
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The watch sez: Time to kill!
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kiryan
- Sojourner
- Posts: 7275
- Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
- Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
- Contact:
pre dire raiders, ogres had a useful clearly defined existence. damage + bash big things and last ditch tank ability. Ogres hit damn hard. Crit based weapons are insane in their hands.
It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Hopefully not like the paladin/anti/ranger/rogue/warrior mess with endless pleas for balance and upgrades.
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where ara you my rittle raabuuri
It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Hopefully not like the paladin/anti/ranger/rogue/warrior mess with endless pleas for balance and upgrades.
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where ara you my rittle raabuuri
Yayaril my plea is that the ogres should have one distinct advantage in some kind of race/class combination that makes them more desirable than any other.
Also if you're going to post with that kind of attitude please don't. At least look at the arguments presented and comment about those. You act like you know it all but then you end up just ignoring the issues and basically saying that the original poster just likes to complain about issues that are nonexistent.
As for ogre agility, I think my ogre has 85-95 Agility natural and my naked AC is 98. That should tell you something about their tanking ability. How do barbarians compare to this? And yes everyone can reach -100AC but this isn't the really the same number as there appears to be a different limit or some kind of bonus check that factors in agility.
Ogres being !bash, from my past experience that's both a good and bad thing. If you're !bash the mob will switch to you instead of trying to bash you. The mobs are always skilled enough that switching to you doesn't have any possible detriments, they can't fail in switching so they don't lose a round of combat. The good part about that is that WHEN the mob switches to you, you still have the option to flee.
[This message has been edited by Rivi (edited 08-09-2002).]
Also if you're going to post with that kind of attitude please don't. At least look at the arguments presented and comment about those. You act like you know it all but then you end up just ignoring the issues and basically saying that the original poster just likes to complain about issues that are nonexistent.
As for ogre agility, I think my ogre has 85-95 Agility natural and my naked AC is 98. That should tell you something about their tanking ability. How do barbarians compare to this? And yes everyone can reach -100AC but this isn't the really the same number as there appears to be a different limit or some kind of bonus check that factors in agility.
Ogres being !bash, from my past experience that's both a good and bad thing. If you're !bash the mob will switch to you instead of trying to bash you. The mobs are always skilled enough that switching to you doesn't have any possible detriments, they can't fail in switching so they don't lose a round of combat. The good part about that is that WHEN the mob switches to you, you still have the option to flee.
[This message has been edited by Rivi (edited 08-09-2002).]
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