Hmm, couple of stuffs

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Grogu
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Hmm, couple of stuffs

Postby Grogu » Sat Sep 14, 2002 10:43 am

Okay, couple of things that I find sort of annoying here, from what I've noticed in my time playing a cleric...

1. Curse doesn't give a message like "That doesn't work because the mob is already cursed, idiot!" so if 1 cleric is memming out, he won't know unless someone has a curse trigger... Also, curse affects items and mobs of the name name, i.e. water + water elemental, or any other combonation of items/names, so you end up cursing your item and aggroing the mob at the same time

2. How the hell can a cleric earthquake in a No Ground room like the Grey Green fight? The whole point is that there's no ground beneath you, right?

3. Blindness sucks. It's great for low levels becase mobs hardly hit when blinded, but the absolute superiority that power word blind has makes me wonder why I keep it memmed now. Not to mention the blind proc ebony longsword, as well as druids with sunray, making the spell almost worthless to cast at higher levels, whereas I still find time to use 1st, 2nd, and 3rd circle spells more often than 4th (summon is only one used often) I only use it to slow the switches on me in little fights when healing isn't a must. (see #5)

4. More of a professional jealousy than anything, but both shamans and druids have very useful area spells for the group, group heal, ancestral shield, sunray. Clerics get divine bless. That and plane shift are all they get for 9th circle. I'd dump divine bless for hailstorm, entangle, dessicate, group heal, or spirit walk any day, personally. I don't expect anything out of this complaint, just an observation that 9th circle lacks general usefulness. Plane shift is fun though.

5. Clerics = switch bait. I realize if cleric dies then tank dies, which leads to group spank, but same scenario with the enchanter. Clerics can't keep up the healing if the tank doesn't have prots. Same goes with no damage from say, invokers/necros. Can't kill the mob fast enough and if you can't mem out, then you're screwed, or if you can, then you generally scratch the mob and that's about it. And while they're usually the most difficult to kill, because of defenses, if tank dies then so does group, so it's really a collective thing (which is why we all specialize in our chosen profession) and I think it's unfair that clerics receive 80% of the switches. Except for rogues, they shouldn't die. *nod me* j/k
(P.S. put "Priests" where I put Cleric, because I'm too lazy to change it.)

Hmm, running out of things to say now. Probably because clerics seem generally okay. Yeah, they do have way higher natural hp than mages, but in some fights it doesn't even matter when you're bashed. Image
Also, I do realize druids can only sunray at night, though this fact avoided me for quite a while.
*shrug* Main note is #1 though. No message on an already cursed mob = wasted curses.

Grogu

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"If you can't dazzle them with dexterity, baffle them with bullshit!" - Prof. H Hill

[This message has been edited by Grogu (edited 09-16-2002).]
Tanji Smanji
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Postby Tanji Smanji » Sat Sep 14, 2002 10:57 am

On the curse thing. We were fighting the ancient remo one night and a friend cursed his rockcrusher (keyword ancient) while engaged. Very annoying. Could it be made to not target items while in combat or something?
Salen
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Postby Salen » Sat Sep 14, 2002 12:38 pm

4. More of a professional jealousy than anything, but both shamans and druids have very useful area spells for the group, group heal, ancestral shield, sunray. Clerics get natures bless. That and plane shift are all they get for 9th circle. I'd dump nature bless for hailstorm, entangle, dessicate, group heal, or spirit walk any day, personally. I don't expect anything out of this complaint, just an observation that 9th circle lacks general usefulness. Plane shift is fun though.

An oft suggested change here is to send Holy/Unholy to 9th and make it useful. Make it do extra damage to undead/extraplanar's, give it a higher range of mobs it can blind/para (now it can blind like 20 levels below caster, not sure of the numbers though), give it a improved chance to stun.

Yes, I know this means more sissies will run and hide behind neutral alignment, so I still suggest they(holy/unholy) do 1/2 damage to neutrals.

As it is now Holy Word is used in 2 ways, A)para'ing small mobs to plevel others, or B) as a lark while doing a zone that is too easy for your group. This move/change would fix the #4 of Grogu's post, and make the spell useful again.

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Deltin
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Postby Deltin » Sat Sep 14, 2002 2:59 pm

Yes the no message that a mob is already cursed is very bother some to say the least.
Divine blessing is pretty lame cause if they aren't good aligned (assuming the cleric is good) you just use the regular bless on them, which I'm sure every cleric has memed anyway cause that circle isn't much good for anything else.
Holy/unholy word, what can be said that hasn't already? It's too weak.
Good cleric holy word should damage evil and neutral, Neutral cleric have it damage good/evil and Evil good/neutral then every alignment can enjoy the effects lol

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So whad are we gonna do tonight Brain? Same thing we do everynight Pinky, TRY TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD!
Sarell
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Postby Sarell » Mon Sep 16, 2002 10:03 am

make holy/unholy both hurt neutral? boggle...
realism aside, please no more things to make the mud completely flat and generic...that would take away the one small reason for neutral tanks, of which there are few..

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Ambar
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Postby Ambar » Mon Sep 16, 2002 11:39 am

this is just an opinion so please take it as such ...

IMHO ... clerics have THE most powerful spell in the game, ressurect ... who else can bring life back to dead characters (dont tell me necro/lich because that is different)

Every character has it's purpose in a group ... clerics main role is keeping the tank alive ... sure with no scale clerics work harder, but they still heal ... clerics have enough utility spells to keep them busy at all times, and some minor damage ....

Yes shaman have it goin on ... the healing, stoning, damage, and pets ... but its all a lesser quality than the chanter or cleric ...

hope i havent stepped on any toes, that wasnt my intent ... big hugs to you all!

-Jen
rylan
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Postby rylan » Mon Sep 16, 2002 12:09 pm

The most annoying thing I see is the problem with curse effecting items instead of a mob.. seen this on numerous occasions.
It would be nice to have a message if the mob is already cursed too.

I've ranted about cleric blind enough other times.. no need for me to get going on it again :P

[This message has been edited by rylan (edited 09-16-2002).]
moritheil
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Postby moritheil » Mon Sep 16, 2002 5:59 pm

imo curse needs fix.

But neutral/good/evil, you should lure people to alignments with eq. Otherwise people will just abandon neutral en masse.

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Salen
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Postby Salen » Mon Sep 16, 2002 9:18 pm

Sarell/Mori

Next time I am around have me DG you. NO ONE plays good unless it is truly RP. ID some of the best eq in the game. I think you will find much more is !good than is !neutral.

Can anyone honestly give a reason other than RP to be good?


People have run to neutral for 2 reasons;
1 eq
2 avoid un/holy word.
Both are bad reasons. Making un/holy hit neutrals, but give them 1/2 damage (an automatic save) does not bother them much. What it does do is make the spell actually get used some.

Also I don't see how making spells more useful 'make the mud completely flat and generic'. Players have plenty of reasons to be neutral, aside from hiding from a spell. If anything having 2 spells that get used in zone (Fheal&Vit) seems rather flat and generic dont you think? Oh I forgot Realm if there is a breath mob. 2 1/4 spells in zone. The only caster that gets close to this is Invoker.

Ambar
Ress is not THE most powerful spell (electrifying move) in the game(sports entertainment). Ress is a utility that clerics us AFTER a zone with the exception of a small few. Ress is nothing more than a timesaver (for others, not the cleric btw) that you use sitting around waiting to do something else. Ress is something that you use when something else went wrong.

I am giving suggestions on how to alter a spell so that it actually gets used. If it isn't gonna be used, take it out and replace it with something that will be.

Sorry, I get a little pissy when I suggest a way to make my class more enjoyable and people tell me that my job is to sit around after a zone and fix screw ups.

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Kifle
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Postby Kifle » Mon Sep 16, 2002 11:10 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by rylan:
<B>The most annoying thing I see is the problem with curse effecting items instead of a mob.. seen this on numerous occasions.
It would be nice to have a message if the mob is already cursed too.

I've ranted about cleric blind enough other times.. no need for me to get going on it again :P

[This message has been edited by rylan (edited 09-16-2002).]</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How about splitting curse into curse item and curse person?

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Deltin
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Postby Deltin » Mon Sep 16, 2002 11:12 pm

Well Salen has really said all there is to say.
Neutral benefits
no holy/unholy word effect
equipment (1k headband as example)
don't know if there's any argo neutral mobs or not but there are sure argo good or evil
Can use command undead (if you find this spell useful)

Bad things about being neutral hhmmm
can't bless water or use divine blessing
can't use holy word (although in reality neither can good or evil alignments for all practical purposes.)

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So whad are we gonna do tonight Brain? Same thing we do everynight Pinky, TRY TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD!
Bipple
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Postby Bipple » Mon Sep 16, 2002 11:55 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Deltin:
<B>Well Salen has really said all there is to say.
Neutral benefits
no holy/unholy word effect
equipment (1k headband as example)
don't know if there's any argo neutral mobs or not but there are sure argo good or evil
Can use command undead (if you find this spell useful)

Bad things about being neutral hhmmm
can't bless water or use divine blessing
can't use holy word (although in reality neither can good or evil alignments for all practical purposes.)

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Neutral Clerics can cast Divine Blessing as can evil, it only effects group members of the same align.
Deltin
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Postby Deltin » Tue Sep 17, 2002 1:19 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Bipple:
<B>
Neutral Clerics can cast Divine Blessing as can evil, it only effects group members of the same align.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah ok so that's one less "bad" thing for being neutral then.

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So whad are we gonna do tonight Brain? Same thing we do everynight Pinky, TRY TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD!
Sarell
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Postby Sarell » Sun Sep 22, 2002 5:19 am

I said neutral tanks!

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PS. I'm not a newb! I know what some gear does aswell guys!

I said that being neutral tank atm was a good thing and that I didn't want it to be made flat and generic so that all the warriors would go evil / good for the extra hit/dam etc.

Try putting up detect evil/good and see if all the tanks atm are neutral so they can avoid agros in general terrain, and avoid holy/unholy ... I think not...

[This message has been edited by Sarell (edited 09-22-2002).]
rylan
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Postby rylan » Sun Sep 22, 2002 2:56 pm

Going neutral as a cleric is a wuss-out as far as I'm concerned Image
1k align or bust baby!
Waelos
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Postby Waelos » Sun Sep 22, 2002 11:39 pm

Kifle: nice idea =)

Lost

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